Back during the old days (before April 2009), MBers added their posts to the bottom of the comments page. They had no choice; it was all the blog software offered.
When they revived the blog after the Great Hacking Incident, the Administrators added a feature that allowed nested, threaded comments. Now MBers had the option of replying directly to others’ comments, in a hierarchical, outline-like form. They could also reply the old way, with a new comment, if they chose.
Nested comments have several advantages but one big disadvantage: you can’t read them in chronological order. That’s hard for people who don’t check the blog every hour, or even every day.
Do the advantages outweigh the disadvantages? Should we scrap the nesting? Keep it for some purposes but not for others? Let’s talk about it.
I, personally, like the nested comments, but I am on here for a long while each day. I find that conversations are actually easier because they can stay within themselves without being spread out too thin, “like butter over too much bread.” As for people who aren’t on as often not being able to read the comments in chronological order, that problem exists with and without the nested comments. With the old way, people were referring to posts that happened a while ago while also referring to posts which were just put up. Trying to read all the conversations meant scrolling up and down the page until you became cross-eyed. Is this nesting system perfect? No. No system will ever be. But I think this is the best option we have, and we should stick with it.
Thanks Robert!
The nested comments work well when you’re constantly online and monitoring activity all the time, but for the rest of the time I think it’s easier to read threads in chronological order.
Another thing I’ve noticed is that with nested comments often the recent comments bar get’s crammed with people replying to individual comments all in the same thread, instead of writing one post with reference numbers.
I always feel like I’m going to miss something when I read a thread, unless I re-read the entire thing, which takes up a huge amount of time. (Like I need to spend more time on the computer, ha!)
I really liked the old system, although the nested comments can be nice.
I don’t like the nested comments, much, because like Fiddler said, I always feel like I’m going to miss something. And I do miss a lot of stuff. If I want to keep up with the conversation, I feel like I have to read an entire thread, which makes it all a bit daunting, so I don’t even try to keep up anymore. I come on, see if anyone’s posted on the writing threads, and leave. The RRRs and Books in Progress are actually the only threads I can keep up with, because they never get more than one or two comments at a time, and that rarely, so it’s easy to memorize the number of comments they have. I click on the Sea Roc, see that it has 335 comments, and don’t even bother scrolling down.
I like the nested comments, because you can see the comments in cronological order in the Recent Comments bar. It’s also a lot easier to find replies to your own comment: you CTRL + F and then type in your name, and you’ll get all your comments. You scroll to the one you want, and you’ll see the replies.
It is a lot easier to have continuous conversations with the nested comments. All the same, people somehow managed without them. Reading a thread with nested comments destroys some of its understandability, as they push other conversations out of order as well. On the whole, I prefered non-nested comments, but I’m getting used to them and think they should stay. You can use CTRL + F and the date to see any comments you may have missed.
I don’t like them. They are really hard to reply to if your can’t nest.
Why can’t you nest?
I bet Zinc has Explorer (like me) and the Reply buttons don’t show up. (At least, I think it’s with Explorer that the buttons don’t show up.)
Yes, but you can still nest. I was wondering whether she didn’t realize that or had a different situation.
Ah, I see. I was implying that she didn’t realize that she could nest.
See, exactly my point.
6.1.1: No reply buttons. I have Explorer, ja. But how do you reply?
The button is there, you just can’t see it. I posted a screenshot of where to look for it. Just wave your cursor over the area, and you’ll see it change to a hand.
Thanks!
I guess I can’t say anything against it because I do it myself… It seems to help, but if everyone started using it in RPG’s, than I would be against it.
Actually, you could use them in RPGs and RRRs to separate the story line from other discussion.
I kind of don’t like them because it makes them not chronological, as you said, and I don’t check the blog every hour (as you also said). It makes things overwhelming when you find the threads.
Wow. Fast. *nods approvingly* *just can’t stop thinking about how fast moderation here is*
I don’t mind them too much, although I rather liked the old way. I agree though, if people start replying to do roleplaying, this turns around completely. And, the ‘13.1.1.1’ gets annoying.
I never found it that hard to figure out what discussions were going on with the old system. Generally it was pretty easy to figure out what people were talking about, and I’d just memorize the numbers of my comments and scan to see if anyone had replied to them in their posts. I only would go up to other posts again to compare parts of a discussion when it was something that needed a great deal of concentration, like I said, the discussions I was following I’d just memorize the numbers for a moment to reply or to scan for and that worked fine.
I think the nested comments are overwhelming.
I don’t know… I kinda like the nested comments.
Once you get used to them, they make things seem a bit neater. Although finding new posts is a bit annoying, the old system bugged me as well because I could never figure out what people were talking about without scrolling up half the page.
Eh. I guess I’m ok with either system.
I think the nested comments should stay, at least for a bit longer…
By the way, what would happen if you removed the nested comments system? Would they stay like that except you couldn’t reply to them anymore? Or would they somehow be flattened?
They’d be flattened. At least that’s how I interpreted what I read about them.
I think we shouldn’t have the nested comments. If you reply to something that was posted a long time ago it’s likely that the author of the comment will never read it because they won’t scroll directly to that comment. But then there’s the “Recent Comments” bar…
They are the best thing about the new blog. However if you comment on someone else’s comment before it gets posted or on your own before it gets posted, everything looks weird.
I somewhat like them, somewhat don’t. I’ll use them sometimes if they stay, but won’t mine at all if they go. So I guess I’m neutral on nested comments.
Hmm. I don’t use nested comments myself, and they are annoying in the way that you can’t tell if a thread has new activity by scrolling to the bottom…. I could live without them. But there are also good things about them, I guess….. I don’t know. I’d be fine with either keeping them or scrapping them.
Omg, scrap them immediately. They mess up the Force (or Museblog). When I come onto a thread I post on I scroll up until I find my most recent comment, remember the number, and then scroll down to see if anyone replied. Then I respond to them. The nesters disrupt this whole conversation technique. :*(
DON”T scrap them. They’ll flatten the comments. Besides, I like them.
I’d rather if we made a impromptu rule that you can only use the reply button if it’s the last post. Otherwise, reply to them the normal way.
*nostalgic* But they mess me up. I don’t think I can handle them. (sequoia/syllabub, I really don’t think I can handle them!!!! lolz)
Get rid of them! I entreat you, destroy them! They make it so hard to keep up with anything!
I think this is turning into an old vs. new debate, in which the new usually wins.
Just to add my opinion however, I don’t like them because I miss too much. I still use them however. I’m so contradictory.
Please scrap them. I’m not here often enough to use the recent comments bar, and nested comments just do more to clutter up and confuse threads. People should take the time to read through discussions and say everything they want to say in one long post.
Scrap, plz. (Is a text message “plz” worse than the dreaded p*ease? further research needed…..)
I’m not the only one missing things and thinking they’re disruptive….that’s comforting.
If everyone stopped using them, they would be scrapped. Look at how this thread has been unfolding since comment 13.
As an Administrator, I find “reply” handy for giving short, quick answers to questions that seem likely to interest mainly the questioner. It’s like being able to pull someone aside for a brief semi-private conversation instead of having to announce everything over a loudspeaker. Others can hear and take part in the conversation by strolling over, but no one is forced to hear anything. I realize, though, that GAPAs have a specialized perspective.
(“Plz” dsnt bthr me vr mch, by th w.)
Rly? Chtspk is so anoyn. R u tryn 2 Dgraed mb? *rases Ibrow*
i think its rly anoyn 2. thx piggy
OTOH, Robt usn chtspk s 2 funny 4 wrdz.
*Gasp*! We shud haf a chtspk thred. Tht wud b so mch fun!
NO.
Ditto.
Or should I say: “
“OTOH”?
“on the other hand”
Hm. I sounded it out and it sounds like “although”, which is an ironically fitting definition.
*comprehension dawns* Ohhhhhhh. He does sound really funny using chatspeak though, I must agree. It’s just so out of place coming from a GAPA, especially Robert……
Several people have mentioned they’re missing things, but from what I could judge from comments in the past, quite a lot was missed then, too. There were numerous complaints about being ignored, some MBers posted multiple reminders to get replies, other comments plainly showed that earlier parts of the thread had not been read. We frequently heard laments that no one had real conversations.
In addition, many people complained about feeling lost and overwhelmed from busy threads. How many times have we heard, “oh, there are just too many new posts, I’m not going to bother to read them.”
Granted, there were multiple reasons for that, not just the difficulty of tracking sprawled-out conversations. I’m simply pointing out that neither system solves the problem of comments falling through the cracks. Everyone has ens own preferred reading strategy, too, which may better accommodate one system or the other.
If we found a way for you to track new posts, would that make a difference? It’s likely that any solution along those lines will require cookies, something we’ve steered clear of in the past. Any thoughts on that?
I HATE NOT BEING ABLE TO SEE WHO POSTED WHEN. P***** DELETE THE NESTED COMMENTS. OK, I don’t want it that badly.
I like the nested comments because they allow people to respond directly to a statement. I also think that they are helpful because if you’re scrolling down a page of text, trying to see if anyone’s responded to you, you can easily see if they have.
Very good! I love them! It’s really nice not to have to reference posts by number all the time.
I love nested comments. If you want to find a specific conversation on a thread, you don’t have to track post numbers and references all over creation- you just go to the post that started it, and scroll down.
I’ve discovered another use for them. On the more writerly threads, you can post a story in installments without having huge comment gaps between the sections… just one nice little reply series.
I think nested comments are good, especially on the Hot Topics thread, for example. Keep ’em. You can still respond to posts the old way if you want.
Mesa has an idea. People could make rules for threads, ex. Only use reply if your replying to the recentest/ 10th recent post. Then you only have to glance 10 posts back and you’re caught up! And for posts farther back you use the number reference system.
Mesa like yousa idea, but feel guilty for starting da Mesa trend. Mesa’s no good grammar.
Note: Lucasfilm’s official spelling is Meesa. Yousa is correct, though.
POSOC’s comment about story installments gave me an idea. What about writing short continued stories that would have to end when the reply levels reached the limit? They could be like miniature RRRs, a different kind of writing challenge.
Mmm… That might be fun. What’s the reply level limit, though? We’d need to anticipate the end. so that we could wrap up the story.
There are ten levels. Of course, more than one reply can be made at any level. I suppose the story could always bifurcate, if two people posted simultaneously.
I’ve been thinking about the frequent discussions concerning how RRRs lose writers and find it hard to attract new ones once they reach a certain critical mass. So I wondered if it might be worth experimenting with some short forms — and why not use the arbitrary limits of the nesting as a cutoff point?
I love the bifurcation idea… maybe a single introduction could give rise to a sort of “tree” of stories.
What would the thread be called? Nested Short Stories?
“Nestlings”?
The tree idea opens some fascinating possibilities. One could even copy a bit from one story and start a whole new round. Since each nest would be a separate entity, you could have any number going on at once. It could be an interesting challenge for the person at level 10 to wrap things up.
This could be a way to play with experimental fiction, as well as straight short story. Rebecca’s eeville mind even started thinking about linking from one story to another (I mean in the literal, hypertext way). Of course, that could get truly twisted and insane.
Now I remember why you were such a stellar cook. Can we start this thread?
*bows modestly* Yes, but speaking of cooking, let me get home first and heat up some leftovers, if you don’t mind. I’ve been trying to leave here for an hour. I’m just a short drive from home, so it shouldn’t take long.
Eh, it might be interesting. I’m not a fan of short stories myself; they don’t give you enough time to love the story. When it takes years or months to write a story, it becomes your darling. You may hate it at times, but it’s part of you. Short stories are too short. They’re not much fun to read because you can’t create a bond with the characters, and because I don’t like reading them I’ve never even tried to write one. I might participate, though.
I understand what you mean. They’re completely different entities. I’ve gone back and forth myself. There are times I really like short fiction, depending on the author, and times I can’t bear it.
On the other hand, if you don’t feel comfortable with them, all the more reason to try your hand. As Twyla Tharp mentions in The Creative Habit you don’t become a master of your craft by practicing only what you’re already good at or what feels natural.
Off the subject! All I care about is scrapping the nesties. When I seeof ‘nested comments’ all I think of is ticks, nesting down into my hair. Not a good association.
Not bird nests? Or cats nesting in an Amazon box? Nestling up against someone you like? Babushka dolls?
They’re also called “threaded” comments if that helps.
Threaded? Now I’m thinking of that creepy lady in Coraline, threading dolls together at the beginning.
37- Eewww, that movie creeped me out sooo much.
37- The book is creepier.
A year later and I still hate them. *waves anti-nested comment banners and shouts*
Best, I suppose, would be a way to toggle between nested and chronological lists of comments. But I haven’t seen any plug-ins that offer that feature.
I like the nested comments. What is the limit anyway?
They can be nested ten deep.
Isn’t there a thread where you write a story in 10 nested comments? Like a mini RRR? *wanders off to look*
Pseuodonym, the thread is called “Writing Challenge II: “Nestlings”
Thanks.