Bagpipes

Bagpipes--cultural embarrassment or best thing since the invention of yeast?

Paul Baker posts:

Having been mercilessly cruel to Pheebs, TWICE, first by insulting her Elizabethan, then by insulting her bagpipes (sorry, Pheebs. I think you’re wonderful really), I thought I’d show solidarity with this very courageous young woman and put up a bagpipe topic to see what you lot think of the magnificent beasts that I spend so much time playing at people. I could start by setting out all my hugely opinionated views (with which I expect you all to violently disagree) but I won’t. I’ll just float the idea and see what comes in.

So, bagpipes – cultural embarrassment or best thing since the invention of yeast?

Date: August 28, 2005

Author: Paul Baker (Administrator)

Categories: Random craziness

Comments RSS TrackBack 42 comments

1

Robert Coontz (Administrator)

in August 28th, 2005 @ 16:52

Unless Kakashi plays the bagpipes, my guess is that this crowd is unlikely to have strong opinions about them. Still, it never hurts to ask…
–R. C.

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CelebriÃ¤n

in August 28th, 2005 @ 17:57

BAGPIPES!!!!!!!!!!!!! ok, major interest/ strong opinions here !!!
i happen to LOVE bagpipes.
being a scottish dancer, i kno just how important this marvelous instrument is. i have a total scottish thing going on; bagpipes, plaid, dance, kilts &c. and they just may be my favorite instrument. this weekend i will be performing @ the Caledonian scottish games in pleasanton {possibly the largest scottish games in North America, definately in the US} as usual the place will be overrun with pipe bands. in fact, that’s how u find the games from the back entrance, those things are audible from rather far away, especially if there’s more than one of them being played. {not by the same person obviously, though i’d like to c some1 try} i have actually developedd this obsession to the point where i am unable to sit still while they’re being played, dancing is a must. in fact, i don’t no any1 who can remain motionless while some1’s piping {of course, most of them r trying to get as much distance between themselves and the piper as possible, but that’s beside the point}. so, yeah, there’s my opinion, on bagpipes, which r definately not culturally embarising. the british r just jealous, mainly bc they don’t have a completely awesome national insttrument that actually originated as a weapon.

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3

Axa

in August 28th, 2005 @ 18:45

:laughs at thought of Kakashi playing bagpipes: Actually..that wouldn’t work so well…(ChinTsu you know what I mean! ^-^ )

I am unfortunately ignorant on the subject of bagpipes, but I would like to pie the next person who thinks the only thing Scotland does is play bagpipes. Stereotypes are bad.
Aren’t Scottish people British though? Someone finally explained to me the difference between British and English.

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Dana Mannino

in August 29th, 2005 @ 12:00

I have a friend who is an Irish Dancer. I just went to watch her perform at a highland games. Yes, you heard correctly, an Irish dancer at a highland games. I guess the person coordinating it thought it would be good to include some cultural diversity. Anyway, we got into a discussion comparing the bagpipes native to Ireland and Scotland. Irish bag pipes have another name which escapes me at the moment. My Irish dancer friend, a little biased on the subject. Her direct quote was “Basically, the Scottish bag pipes were invented as an instrument of war. Why would you want to listen to a battle?” So like you said, they were once a weapon and I think my friend finds the sound threatening. Maybe it’s kind of like coffee. Some people like things that excite their nervous system and make them ready for action. You might argue that bagpipes were like an early rock in that way; they make your heart thump. Personally I find something triumphant in the sound, so I’m not opposed to it. Still, I wouldn’t want to hear it as the background music at, say, my dentist’s office.

As an off shot from this, are Utilikilts popular or even existent in your Scottish community? They were selling them at the highland games I attended. They are basically kilts with loops for hammers and pockets for nails. Get it, Utility belt+kilt= Util-i-kilt. They come in traditional patterns (excuse my ignorance, would tartans be the word to use here?) or in military camouflage colors. I thought it was odd, but my dancer friend informed me that the leader of the first band she toured with wore one daily. I just wanted to know if it was a country wide fad.

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Elasse-Adael

in August 29th, 2005 @ 12:11

I saw someone wearing a jeans material kilt once. Bagpipes are awesome. I know someone who is learning to play them.

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6

Pheebs

in August 29th, 2005 @ 15:17

Pffft, don’t feel sorry, it was constructive criticism.

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7

Pheebs

in August 29th, 2005 @ 15:19

Oh, and Scottish people are crazy awesome, say “dinna” and “canna” all the time, and live next to the people who made the awesome movie “Waking Ned Divine.

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8

Robert Coontz (Administrator)

in August 29th, 2005 @ 16:15

Dana (comment 4),

I lived in Scotland for three years and learned some of the terminology. A tartan is indeed the crisscross pattern that Americans call “plaid.” A plaid (pronounced “played”) is a piece of tartan-patterned cloth that you wear flipped over your shoulder like Urania’s stole. Irish bagpipes are uillean pipes, from the Irish Gaelic word for elbow. I wouldn’t dare try to pronounce that without help, but my dictionary suggests that it sounds like “villain” minus the “v.”

“Gaelic,” by the way, rhymes with “italic” when the Scots say it. (The Irish don’t use the word; they just call it “Irish.”) Nobody else pronounces it the way Americans do.

Sorry–once we Q&A-ers get started, it’s hard to stop.

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9

Paul Baker

in August 29th, 2005 @ 17:51

Blimey, I’ve started something here. Clarification called for.

Britain, or Great Britain, officially consists of England (the big bit), Scotland (the cold, lumpy bit up North), Wales (the wart on the West) and Northern Ireland – I think. The trouble is, the old girl that runs the show is called the Queen of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, so possibly delete the latter and re-insert it as an appendix. Clear? No, me neither.

Bagpipe History – see my website at http://www.diabolus.org which will probably be confusingly deleted from this message because it’s a link. Anyway, briefly – the modern Highland pipes are a development of the old Irish Great Pipe, or Piob Mhor in Gaelic. They are a Victorian invention. Before about the 18th century, the English were the ones famous throughout Europe for their bagpiping, playing mainly the English Great Pipe.

The forerunners of the Highland Bagpipe were always loud and a bit military, but it got officially classed as a weapon and banned in the 18th century when the English king was trying to suppress revolt in Scotland.

The Irish Uillean, or Union pipe, also Victorian, is a different bagpipe altogether. It’s a gorgeous thing, with complicated levers that allow the player to change the pitch of the drones while playing.

The Scots also have the Lowland pipes, which are lovely, and the Border Pipes, which are equally lovely, and probably a couple of other types too. And they’re superb pipers. Why they persist in playing the raucous Highland monster is beyond me. But hten, I’m English. I’m not supposed to understand.

Incidentally, the emperor Nero played bagpipes. Now there’s an amazing factoid. Bo? Wake up!

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10

Paul Baker

in August 29th, 2005 @ 17:53

Oh, and there are two forms of Gaelic. There’s Irish Gaelic and Scottish Gaeilc. They’re similar but different. There’s probably North Hebridean Gaelic too, but it’s not something most people stay awake worrying about. Unless they live in the North Hebrides.

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11

Elasse-Adael

in August 30th, 2005 @ 13:30

I speak Welsh! Dw’in siarad Cymraeg! (Okay I don’t speak very much Welsh (I’ve only taken it for a year) but how much Welsh do *you* know???)

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12

Queen Julietaini

in August 30th, 2005 @ 17:10

Best thing since sliced bread. Mr. Baker, we parole you if you promise to be nice to Pheebs.

I like bagpipes. I had a Scottish counselor at camp and we hung them up in our cabin.

There are two sizes of bagpipes-kitchen pipes, that may be played indoors, and outdoor pipes, that are only played in grassy areas with escape routes.

In Scotland, everybody knows the anthem, it”s very rainy, and the locals enjoy ingesting sheep intestines. Haggus. Finn MacCool is the Scottish Paul Bunyan. Nobody plays kickball in Scotland. Kilts are called kilts when men wear them, on women they are skirts.

I know some great British legendy-story-thingummies if you’re interested.

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13

CelebriÃ¤n

in August 30th, 2005 @ 21:09

Utililkilts r awesome

so r bagpipes

gaelic is fun

yeah…………

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14

Phoebe

in August 30th, 2005 @ 21:09

I did a report on welsh once, but naturally I forgot entirely about it aftewards…

I’m not very good at Bagpipes, anyway, I haven’t got the bag part yet. I can play Amazing Grace, This Song I don’t Know te Name Of, Hot Cross Buns (duh), and I’m working on some others.

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15

ChinTsu

in August 31st, 2005 @ 02:00

Paul u work 4 Muse?

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16

Paul Baker

in August 31st, 2005 @ 05:55

Respect, Pheebs. It may take you a while to get up to reels and strathspeys, but at least you have a beastie in your clutches and it’s responding to coercion. Keep at it, lassie. Playing bagpipes is a joy for life, and you’ll never be short of haggis.

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17

Paul Baker

in August 31st, 2005 @ 05:56

I tried learning Welsh. I got as far as “Dydy Morfudd ddim yn y tebot” and decided I wasn’t really up to it.

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18

Paul Baker

in August 31st, 2005 @ 05:59

And for anyone who isn’t convinced of the sanity of bagpipe enthusiasts, please seek out recordings of Northumbrian pipes. Catherine Tickell is one of the current stars.

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Robert Coontz (Administrator)

in August 31st, 2005 @ 07:18

While studying geology in North Wales I visited the town of Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch and wrote a song about it. The chorus went like this:

Llanfairpwll, gwyngyll,
gogerych, wyrndrobwll,
llantysilio,
gogogoch!

P. S. Pheebs — The inimitable Mr. Baker is a frequent contributor to Muse. One of his articles (written in Elizabethan English, no less) appears in the September issue.

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20

Phoebe

in August 31st, 2005 @ 11:04

Yay! I remember that bloody huge villagey name from my report… phun stuph!

Y’know, we’re kinda not talking about bagpipes that much. We should change the subject form “bagpipes” to “A discussion of The United Kingdom and the Western side of Europe, it’s liking for weird food, and bagpipes.” instead. Or maybe you should change it to something more dramatic, like, “Bagipipes: Vicious Beast of the UK or Charming Instrument of Joy and Ned Divine?”

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21

Phoebe

in August 31st, 2005 @ 11:05

Ha ha, Rob, so much for that first comment.

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Robert Coontz (Administrator)

in August 31st, 2005 @ 11:28

Yes, the Man from Swinford is clearly in touch with the Zeitgeist.

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23

Phoenix

in August 31st, 2005 @ 14:13

!!!WHAT IS THE BIG ISSUE ABOUT BAGPIPES???!!!! THEY ARE JUST A N INSTURMENT!!!!! Also, no matter HOW bad some people think they sound, it sounds a LOT better than an accordian, also known as the insturment of DEATH and DESPAIR. Accordians should come with little tags from the Surgeon General that say: “WARNING: listening to, touching, playing, or even being withing 300 meters of this horror is considered a health hazard and is possibly fatal.” THey should be banned like asbestos (special bonus points for whoever knows what that is :(…).

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Elasse-Adael

in August 31st, 2005 @ 16:46

I know what asbestos is… It is this poisonous stuff… and I haven’t gotten my September issue yet…

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25

Axa

in August 31st, 2005 @ 18:09

Asbestos are in some ceiling panals aren’t they? I knew I should have read that newspaper article…

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26

Phoenix

in August 31st, 2005 @ 18:20

Asbestos is a chemical they used to use to line gas pipes and rooves and stuff, before they realized it was killing people now it is illegal. My science teacher’s uncle was a plumber who was trained to deal with Asbestos, and he did untill it poisoned him and gave him a horrible disease.

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27

Axa

in August 31st, 2005 @ 18:41

: ( That’s terrible!

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Pheebs

in September 1st, 2005 @ 10:17

Abestos. For some reason, it makes me think of fireproof cloth. I’m probably muddling it up with something else.

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Phoenix

in September 1st, 2005 @ 17:52

You are basically correct. It is fireproof, and used to be made into cloth. Of course being a mythical creature expert, I can tell you about it, and the salamander, which is a mythical lizard which lives in fire. people said it spun a silk-like thread, which could be made into fireproof clothes (like a holocaust cloak). Documents reffering to this cloth exist, and the conclusion made on it is that they were actually asbestos. Should this be in the legend section? Oh well, who cares.

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30

Lizzie

in September 3rd, 2005 @ 10:14

At the music summer camp I go to, there’s a fiddling class. The teacher, Kaila, occasionally brings in some of her musician friends. A couple of years ago, she had this guy who was playing something sort of like bagpipes, made out of a sheep (minus the head and limbs and wool and internal stuff), but I can’t remember what it was called. It’s probably eastern european, but I’m not quite sure. Anyone have any idea what that could be?

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31

Elentari

in September 3rd, 2005 @ 16:51

To Elasse-Adael: WHERE DID YOU LEARN WELSH?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
P.S. Sorry if I speled yor skreen nam rong…
To Celebrian: Where in California do you live?

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32

ChinTsu

in September 4th, 2005 @ 18:11

O the dumb september issue still hasn’t come yet. OK, the issue isn’t dumb, muse is never dumb. I’m just impatiant.
So was PB the one who wrote that article on tudor music? I lost that issue. Or left it at home. *bangs head on table*

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33

Elasse-Adael

in September 4th, 2005 @ 21:00

where I live there is a woman who teaches welsh to anyone who wants to learn though I doubt that you live near moi. maybe you should ask aroud and see if anyone knows welsh teachers?

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34

Phoenix

in September 5th, 2005 @ 13:59

Yep, it was mr. Baker.

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Robert Coontz (Administrator)

in September 5th, 2005 @ 14:10

ChinTsu (#32),

P. B.’s article on Tudor music was in the May/June 2003 issue.

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36

ChinTsu

in September 5th, 2005 @ 20:26

O the way his letters sounded i didn’t think he was that…..old.
Heehee. *dodges pies*

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37

Dave of the JUNGLE

in September 14th, 2005 @ 21:57

just reading this thread makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. where else would there be a forum about BAGPIPES. my thougts:
anything irish and musical is freakin awesome
” scottish ” ”
welsh is cool
uilelanenan (whatev) pipes are one of the colest sounding instruments ever. listen to a recording, seriously.

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38

Lyle Walker

in September 15th, 2005 @ 17:38

Ohhh, where to begin?…Abestos is a fibrous mineral used as fire-proofing or as a heat insulator. Not a chemical per se. It causes mesothelioma, a lung cancer if inhaled. Lesser exposures cause abesteois (SP?) a lung disease. My father worked for the railroad and was exposed to abestos that insulated steam engine water jackets and died of mesothelioma.

Bagpipes..Probably dating back to the earliest form of pipes , such as the Pipes of Pan. An animal bladder was used as an air resevoir and a drone reed added to the chanter. The Celts took a form of the pipes thru Europe and Brittany and eventually to Ireland. The Irish pipe was two droned with the tenor one octave below the chanter, and the bass 4 octaves below. The scots adapted the Irish War Pipe into the Highland pipe by shortening the bass drone to 3 octaves below the chanter and eventually added another tenor drone. When the Highland regiments were added to the English Army, the piper was paid for out of the Officer’s salaries. The Scots wouldn’t leave their piper behind. Drummers were already a part of the English Army. Eventually, they recruited pipers , added the drummers to form pipe bands. Not having a category to put the pipes in, the Army placed them in the weapons category. Along with English court rulings outlawing bagpipes and considering them ‘weapons’ of the Scots, the bagpipe obtained a reputation as an instrument of war. Pipers were well respected throughtout Scotland as being a ‘portable’ music source, playing for dancers, entertainment and of course, leading the clans to battle. Various forms of the bagpipe were played throughout Europe. In a tapestry in the Molly Brown House in Denver, is a picture of a German Piper (Sackenfifer) during the Medivel times. There are literallly dozens of styles of pipes. I play the GHB (great highland bagpipe) and the Shuttle pipes.
My personal experince…I was pretty much ignored in a pub in Stirling, Scotland. The local folks thought I was a tourist. When they found out that I was a piper competing with a pipe band, they literally pulled out chairs and invited me to sit and have a pint with them. They didn’t know a lot about pipes or pipebands, but the bagpipe instantly forged a bond between us. Sorry for the long blether.

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39

Jason

in March 25th, 2006 @ 18:06

Hello. I just thought I would mention that I too think the bagpipes are an AWESOME instrument. Still on the chanter myself, but cant wait to get on the highland pipes. Anyways, thats it.

P.S: I live in British Columbia, Canada. I have never heard of the magazine before.

Jason– If you are college-age or older, please include both your first and names in the “Name” field. (See the “Rules” page.) You should be aware, though, that this blog was created for readers of Muse magazine. Thanks. –Robert Coontz, Administrator.

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40

Eccentric the Afterthought

in April 17th, 2006 @ 19:24

No need to apologize for comment 8, it was interesting! As for bagpipes, I don’t have a strong enough opinion as to loathe or love them, but I have no problem with bagpipes. I like them, and if you love them, more power to you! I don’t play them and I really don’t know anything about them, but I find the sound interesting. As a matter of fact, at the opening school ceremony at my school (I’d say the name, but I probably shouldn’t since it’d give away pretty close to my exact location) every year it’s become a tradition for all of the students to march into school in a procession led by the local bagpipe players (they have a name for their association, but I forget what it is). Why? Because the headmistress is crazy, but it certainly is a unique experience.

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41

Julieb

in October 20th, 2006 @ 21:23

Wow, you can still post on these old threads?
Just to point out- Yeast was not invented, it was discovered. It is a bacterium used to bake breads and such because it makes them rise. I have no idea how they do this. In fact, I am going to look it up.

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42

Robert Coontz (Administrator)

in October 20th, 2006 @ 23:08

Well, sure. Why should we close down a perfectly good thread? I’m sure you’ve barely scratched the surface of the wonder and glory of bagpipes.

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Comments RSS TrackBack 42 comments

Robert Coontz (Administrator)

CelebriÃ¤n

Axa

Dana Mannino

Elasse-Adael

Pheebs

Pheebs

Robert Coontz (Administrator)

Paul Baker

Paul Baker

Elasse-Adael

Queen Julietaini

CelebriÃ¤n

Phoebe

ChinTsu

Paul Baker

Paul Baker

Paul Baker

Robert Coontz (Administrator)

Phoebe

Phoebe

Robert Coontz (Administrator)

Phoenix

Elasse-Adael

Axa

Phoenix

Axa

Pheebs

Phoenix

Lizzie

Elentari

ChinTsu

Elasse-Adael

Phoenix

Robert Coontz (Administrator)

ChinTsu

Dave of the JUNGLE

Lyle Walker

Jason

Eccentric the Afterthought

Julieb

Robert Coontz (Administrator)