Coping with difficult situations, disappointment, depression, boredom, whatever unpleasantness life deals out. What tricks have you learned? What works for you?
Suggested by recent exchanges on the Rants and Plaints thread.
Patience, Please
This site is under reconstruction and will look strange for a while. We regret the inconvenience.
So, when I’m really angry, a lot of times I’m angry at myself, but I take it out on everyone around me. Once I realize who/what I’m angry at, I can calm down and possibly mend the emotional damage I’ve done. I think a lot of fights and things happen because people don’t realize why they are angry, and if they would stop to figure that out, then they could begin to stop hurting themselves and the people around them.
Thank you thank you thank you
Here is my background, and what I am trying to accomplish:
I have been depressed since January of 2010. I have been anxious for my whole life. I sought help in February of 2010. I have been in various kinds of therapy and tried almost every medication for depression that exists. Right now, I am on the one medication out of all of these that does any good at all, and I am in a type of both individual and group therapy called “dialectical behavioral therapy,” which is focused around learning coping skills. This type of therapy was originally developed for those with borderline personality disorder, but I don’t have borderline personality disorder and I don’t think you need to have borderline personality disorder to be helped by the skills.
I am going to try to post here weekly to share the coping skill I learned in the previous week with you all. I hope that it will help someone, or at least provide an interesting insight. I want to help people get better and give them the hope that things do get better from depression.
If you want to ask me other questions about my experience, I will gladly answer them.
Here is a repost from Rants and Plaints about specific coping skills:
Right now we’re learning about mindfulness. They believe that you must understand what you’re feeling before you can deal with how you’re feeling.
The first skills I learned were the core “what†skills. These are: Observe, Describe, and Participate.
OBSERVE: Watch your emotions go by, as if on a conveyor belt. Do not interact with them in any way, just let them happen.
DESCRIBE: Labeling the emotions on the conveyor belt with words, like “happy†or “angryâ€
PARTICIPATE: Trying to stay in the moment and experience your feelings without dissociating from them or feeling self-conscious about them.
Keep in mind that I am not a trained psychologist, this should not be used in place of therapy, I do not own these ideas, whatever other disclaimers sound appropriate.
(actually I’m in dialectical behavioral therapy right now and most therapists are cognitive behavioral, so reading this is not really the same as you going to therapy at all. I have individual sessions too, they are very important! If you are feeling depressed, you should try to seek individual therapy.)
I took some classes in mindfulness meditation (also called insight or vipassana meditation) a few years ago and read a couple of books about mindfulness therapies. It makes sense to me. Standing back and noticing your thoughts and feelings as thoughts and feelings gives them less power to affect your mood and your actions. They become more like weather, something that comes and goes. Noting thoughts as they occur also keeps them as single thoughts, making them less likely to grow into chains of negative thoughts — or, worse, circles of thoughts that go round and round getting worse every time.
Some cognitive therapies try to do the same sort of thing by asking you to notice distorted thoughts as they appear and immediately substitute more accurate ones, but I think the mindfulness approach is simpler. While you’re doing it, you don’t have to decide which thoughts are distorted and need special attention; you just take all of your thoughts less seriously.
For a while, I wondered what the meditation component was supposed to accomplish. But I came to realize that it’s very good for practicing self-control. When you’re sitting still with only your thoughts for company, the impulse to react to them — to move — becomes almost overwhelming. If you can resist it under those highly unfavorable conditions, it becomes much easier to do it when you’re out and about and have other things going on.
I ran into a bizarre state of depression when I was about 12, and I didn’t really start to come out of it until I was 14-ish.
I was a stupid child, and I didn’t even tell anyone until it had been going on for at least a year, and then it was to Pan, and I don’t think anybody else actually knows that happened.
Anyway, what got me out of it was my 8th grade English teacher. I had been eyeing Buddhism from afar for a long time; I didn’t know much about it, really, but a lot of it felt right. I read Huston Smith’s The World’s Religions chapter on Taoism in 5th grade, I think (whenever we were doing that on the MB) and that was perfect. I had assumed things about the world that just hit straight to the end with Taoism. I was just fascinated, and then I forgot about it.
In 8th grade, my teacher decided that our class needed a certain lesson. We spent the year on texts that dealt with some kind of philosophy. We read The Catcher in the Rye, and the Allegory of the Cave (followed by The Truman Show), and Macbeth, and this great film-based-on-a-book, Tsotsi, and then we went into all of this Buddhism and Taoism. We read Siddhartha and read about the Eightfold Path, Zen’s Ten Ox Herding Pictures, and the Tao Te Ching, which I now have a mini copy of in my backpack always. His class literally changed my philosophy of life. I hope to go to a Zen monastery sometime after high school so that I know this stuff.
Okay, anyway, that stuff, slowly but surely, got me out of it. I did some meditation stuff, which means I reserved an hour almost every day to listen to the rhythm of life in my room or in the woods. I developed a deep understanding of the ambling, woven nature of the universe I observed, and I grew to realize what I had been doing to myself and that this rhythm could get me out of it. It is absolutely incredible what the flow of the universe can do if you take a step back.
I sound so terribly “new age” and cheap fake hippie when I say that, but that is my truth.
Human nature gets in the way of my behaviour every day, and I can’t always let things flow. But I’m happy now, and I’m pretty convinced that this is what really helped me out of the big pothole in my life. I hope it helps somebody.
In short: My coping strategy is reading material. Apparently. Take these texts to heart and you’re golden?:
Tao Te Ching
Ten Ox Herding Pictures
Eightfold Path
Siddhartha
The Tao of Pooh
Take from that what you will.
COPING SKILL OF THE WEEK
“how” skills, for attaining mindfulness
1. Don’t Judge — instead of thinking “he’s annoying”, think something like “he’s asking a lot of questions and talking loudly”. Try to avoid making judgements when you describe a scene (Describe is one of the “what” skills, if you recall)
2. Stay Focused — Easier said than done, I know. Bring your mind gently back to the topic of what you are doing. Don’t get angry at yourself for losing focus!
3. Do What Works — Make effective choices. For example, instead of choosing to yell at someone because you want to get them to listen to you, speaking in a calmer tone may be doing what works. (Although, if your goal is to let off steam, yelling /may/ be doing what works. Just be careful to stay in your wise mind* and think of the consequences first.)
*I think I forgot to explain wise mind. This is another skill. “Emotion mind” is acting based only on your emotions. “Rational mind” is doing things based only on what’s logically sensible. “Wise mind” is taking input from both rational and emotion minds and picking the choice with the best effects overall, weighing the pros and cons.
So my friend who has very personal connections to cutting/cutters but hasn’t told me what they are posted this on the Tonks Network (a certain website I can’t name, like the Voldemort Network but cooler):
The Butterfly Project.
Any time you want to hurt yourself, whether by cutting, purging, or self-mutilation, grab a pen. Draw a butterfly on your arm. Name this butterfly after someone who loves you. If you don’t hurt yourself, draw a butterfly and name it after someone you know who does.
\/
( | )
( | )
I really like that idea.
Guess what is all over my arms now :]
This is a nice idea. It’s so…serene?
Tally marks?
(NO, CAT’S EYE, THE COPING THREAD IS NOT DOCTOR WHO, STOP IT)
Dodec–I really like reading about the coping stuff you’re learning about. Keep posting it please?
Over the years I feel like I’ve developed some weird coping mechanisms. I guess one that I use the most is when I’m feeling very emotionally overwhelmed–it’s sort of a visualization thing where I take a deep breeath and then sort of… set/push down my lungs? Not just like taking a normal break, but pushing it further in. And then when I do this I imagine a sphere starting inside my chest and growing outward as I’m holding my breath, pushing all the feelings along outside it. After the sphere reaches my skin it pushes all the bad emotions out so they can’t affect me any more. If I have to take a break during this then the sphere retracts slightly, but when I start to hold it again it pushes back out farther.
Doing this a few times stops me from reacting to what I’m feeling and sort of distance myself from it enough that it’s not debilitating/I can get things done instead of curling up to cry (although sometimes that IS what’s needed).
COPING SKILL OF THE WEEK
emotion regulation–ABC PLEASE
This week I’ll be talking about the A, next week the rest of ABC PLEASE (it’s an acronym, if that isn’t clear.)
This is pretty self-explanatory! That doesn’t mean it’s easy, but nothing is.
A stands for Accumulate positive experiences (look, I know that’s not how acronyms work, I didn’t make it up). That means, do as many things which make you feel happier as you can. Make a list of happy things, and try to do at least one each day. Rate your mood before and after, if you want.
This is a good skill for people who are depressed.
Why is no one using this thread anymore?
I’m not sure.
I’m finally getting a sense of time! Not a good one, but an existent one! Yay!
COPING SKILL OF THE WEEK
emotion regulation–ABC PLEASE
Sorry that this week is a bit late, I’ve been busy accumulating positive experiences…
Last week we talked about A, this week the rest of the acronym.
B- Build mastery
Do things as often as you can that make you feel accomplished and (if possible) in control of your life. You don’t have to be a master at something to build mastery at it, you just have to work at it.
C- Cope ahead of time
If you know you’re going to be in a stressful situation, plan ahead for what you’re going to do when it happens. Imagine what you do, and how people react, and then what you do in response to that, etc. Make it seem as real as possible in your head so that you will be prepared!
PL- treat PhysicaL illness
If you’re sick, rest and take medicine. If you take medication daily, make sure that you take it every day.
E- balance Eating
Don’t eat too much or too little. Eat healthy food.
A- Avoid mood-altering drugs
Don’t do illegal drugs. They will make you feel worse in the long run.
S- balance Sleep
Sleep enough. Don’t spend all your time asleep, though. Get to bed at a reasonable hour. I know it’s hard.
E- Exercise often
Apparently it makes you feel better? I have yet to test this. It also reportedly makes you sleep better. I am not a huge fan of exercise but that does not mean that you should ignore this skill.
thank you for the post, dodeca!
i really like/agree with the B and C parts. this is very helpful.
as far as exercise goes, i go on walks a lot and i do find them helpful. it’s nice to have a change of scenery and to be moving. even though it’s not really that strenuous i do tend to feel better afterward (ties in with B, i think, cause you get a sense of accomplishment i s’pose)
great post!
Thanks!
I agree, walks are a good thing. I’ve been really busy with school and afterschool activities, but I live on a cul-de-sac that is easy to walk around, and the year’s ending, so that isn’t a great excuse.
COPING SKILL OF THE WEEK
emotional regulation-opposite action
Opposite action is for when your emotion mind (see above) wants to do something inadvisable. Basically, you do the opposite action.
Examples of opposite action:
You are scared of something -> you want to avoid it -> do it until you aren’t scared of it anymore
You are angry at someone -> you want to say mean things or yell -> be nice to someone instead (doesn’t have to be the same someone)
You are depressed -> you want to withdraw -> go out and do something with friends
You feel guilty -> you want to avoid something -> go and do it, apologize for your actions, etc.
Opposite action works best when:
1. The action that you want to do is not justified e.g. withdrawing
or
2. The action that you want to do is not effective e.g. yelling at a teacher
and
3. You are fully committed to doing the opposite action i.e. changing your facial expression and affect, being enthusiastic
There are seven steps to opposite action, but I had to look them up to tell you them so don’t think you have to memorize them. Just try to remember the general idea.
1. What emotion are you feeling?
2. Is it justified? Is it effective?
3. What action do you want to do because of the emotion?
4. Do you want to change the emotion?
5. What is the opposite of the action you want to do?
6. Do the opposite action
7. Keep doing the opposite action until your urge to do the action decreases noticeably
SFTDP AND ALSO PAY ATTENTION TO ME
No coping skill this week–group was cancelled because nobody could come Monday night. No coping skill next week–no group because of Memorial Day. I’ll be back after that though.
I am paying attention! I read all of these posts.
thank you for these posts! they are v helpful!
Thanks for reading, and I’m glad I can help
So, my individual therapist wasn’t working out, and I’m going back to the old one, who I connected with really well. However, my old therapist isn’t affiliated with the group I’m in, and if I’m not getting therapy from someone who is affiliated with it, I get kicked out of group. I’m still going to be working on coping skills, though, and I still plan on sharing them as often as I can. It’s just no longer going to be a regular day-after-group feature.
A song everyone should hear:
Some things in life are bad
They can really make you mad
Other things just make you swear and curse.
When you’re chewing on life’s gristle
Don’t grumble, give a whistle
And this’ll help things turn out for the best…
And…always look on the bright side of life…
Always look on the light side of life…
If life seems jolly rotten
There’s something you’ve forgotten
And that’s to laugh and smile and dance and sing.
When you’re feeling in the dumps
Don’t be silly chumps
Just purse your lips and whistle – that’s the thing.
And…always look on the bright side of life…
Always look on the light side of life…
For life is quite absurd
And death’s the final word
You must always face the curtain with a bow.
Forget about your sin – give the audience a grin
Enjoy it – it’s your last chance anyhow.
So always look on the bright side of death
Just before you draw your terminal breath
Life’s a piece of ****
When you look at it
Life’s a laugh and death’s a joke, it’s true.
You’ll see it’s all a show
Keep ’em laughing as you go
Just remember that the last laugh is on you.
And always look on the bright side of life…
Always look on the right side of life…
(Come on guys, cheer up!)
Always look on the bright side of life…
Always look on the bright side of life…
(Worse things happen at sea, you know.)
Always look on the bright side of life…
(I mean – what have you got to lose?)
(You know, you come from nothing – you’re going back to nothing.
What have you lost? Nothing!)
Always look on the right side of life…
I love this song. Eric Idle is a great songwriter.
True that. Of course, you can’t get the full effect of the song without the whistling.
UP’s life advice:
When you get up and you’re grumpy or something negative like that wear bright colors or something spiffy. Then you might feel like you have to act more energetic, or the brightness might just cheer you up. (I think this makes some psychological sense because of how colors affect mood)
If you’re upset with a person, rant if you have to, then when you’re done ranting try to appreciate that person. Try to think of something good about them or if there isn’t anything you can think of just try to think of them as another random person who you don’t really care for and you are able to disregard. Instead of thinking “Joe is such a jerk” think “Sometimes the boy in my science class is very rude.” (I think that goes with Dodec’s “don’t judge” thing.)
I think that most emotional skills get much easier as you get older. When I was younger it was extremely difficult not to take things personally. It was difficult to think of people I disliked as just normal people instead of demons.
It was hard to have confidence in my skills because I had very few useful skills. This was only because I was young and did not have the time or physical ability to develop many skills other than reading. Now that I am older it is much easier to have good self esteem and confidence because I have more responsibility and I am trusted by adults whereas before I was denied responsibility and trust due to my young age. Of course, being young I interpreted this as people either disliking me or telling me I was inadequate.
I wish I had known when I was younger that 4 or 5 years is really short. I also wish that I was given more opportunities for confidence. Some people say that you need to take charge of your own life and feelings, but when I was 13 I didn’t know how to do anything except obey and be upset with adults. There wasn’t much autonomy in my actions, and the easiest thing for me to do was to be upset about it since I didn’t have the ability or authority to change it.
Ok…I think this is starting to get into rambly territory. Case in point: Look on the bright side and “you’ll understand when you’re older” and I know how much you hate being told you’re too young, but I’m too young and when I was 13 I was TOO TOO TOO young! And you are now! (in the nicest way possible, in a big sister kind of way!)
In which UP tries to sound like an oldster by using the phrase “When I was younger”:
(the first part is not really related to the rest)
When I was younger, spending too much time on the computer made me really irritable, but I couldn’t stop going online for no reason. Now, I shut the computer off if I spend more than a few minutes not doing anything. Staring at the screen doesn’t help my mental state. I wish I had figured it out earlier.
When I was younger I took the problems my brain made up for me and projected them into the world around me. Now that I’m older I realize that all of my problems were “just in my head” and I was unable to recognize that they were not external. I wish I had learned earlier to analyze the source of my problems. I would have been able to tell that my mind was creating them, and then I could have gotten help.
For example: I had a fear of being reprimanded, scolded, criticized, or in any way spoken to negatively by an adult. Rather than saying to myself “I am afraid of adults speaking negatively to me” I said things like “adults dislike me”, “adults yell at me”, “adults want me to be normal and preppy and perfect”. These false ideas made me believe that the adults around me didn’t care about my feelings and only wanted me to wear pink and be a cheerleader.
In saying that the problems I had with adults and friends when I was 13 were “in my head”, I don’t mean to imply that they were not real problems. At the time I was unable to see any other possibilities. I was not aware that I had an irrational fear of criticism and the only explanation my mind was capable of was painting others as mean spirited.
I don’t know the situations of anyone reading this, but maybe some of you have fears that you are projecting onto real life situations and in turn making the situations more troublesome for yourself than they need to be.
When you are in the situation, it is difficult to judge whether the actions of other people or the actions of your own brain are responsible for your problems. To people outside of it, or to yourself years later, it seems obvious which was responsible.
COPING SKILL OF THE WEEK
distress tolerance: IMPROVE the moment
So, the core concept of distress tolerance is for finding not-harmful things to do when you are very anxious or depressed. Sometimes you may want to curl up into a little ball and not do anything ever again. Sometimes you just want to cry. Sometimes you may want to hurt yourself. This is when you use distress tolerance. (Distress tolerance is basically the entire reason I am trying to learn skills. I will be focusing on it for the next few weeks, at least.)
An important part of distress tolerance is recognizing how you feel. You can do this by practicing the mindfulness skills I described above.
Today’s acronym is IMPROVE, in the easy to remember phrase “improve the moment”, which is what these skills are trying to do. Not all of them work for me, but you should try the ones that you think might help even a little, just in case they work for you. (My therapy homework this week was to think of additional things I could do to help me improve the moment — you can do that too!)
Imagery – imagine something relaxing that you like and imagine yourself feeling better and imagine bad emotions going away
Meaning – My book says “Make lemonade out of lemons.” Think of ways that this bad time is actually a good thing, for example that it makes you stronger.
Prayer – “Ask for strength to bear the pain.” I will admit that as I am not religious this doesn’t do anything for me, but if you are any kind of theist I think it will help. My therapist says it helps her a lot.
Relaxation – This is the physical counterpart to Imagery. Listen to music or take a bath or breathe deeply or relax your muscles.
do One thing at a time – This is related to mindfulness. Instead of worrying about how, for example, you think that nobody loves you, do something and commit yourself fully to it. For example, read a book, or just stop what you are doing and think about how it feels to breathe and sit where you are sitting and just exist. (I think reading a book is easier, but if you are capable of thinking about being without getting distracted, it is very effective)
take a Vacation – Stop worrying and do something fun. This is basically the core idea of IMPROVE the moment. Distance yourself from whatever is upsetting you. For example: read a book, take a hot bath.
provide Encouragement – Repeat things like “I can make it” and “This won’t last forever” in your head. Encourage yourself.
These skills are not easy to use, but if you can use them they can be very helpful.
(by the way, the book I’m referencing for these is an adapted version of Marsha Linehan’s Skills Training Manual for Treating Borderline Personality Disorder so if you like these skills but want more information on them, or want help with something I haven’t gone over yet, such as Interpersonal Effectiveness or Walking the Middle Path, this is the book to use. I do recommend you find a therapist who already knows the skills so that you can learn how to apply them, but if you can’t I will try my best to answer any questions you have.)
This is exceedingly geeky but I swear it’s relevant. If you want to hurt or kill yourself, Owen Harper has some advice for you:
“You’ve got a choice. If you think that the darkness is too much then go for it. But if there is a chance, just some hope… It could be that first sip of hot tea on a cold morning. Or it could be your mates. If there is even a tiny glimmer of light, then don’t you think that’s worth taking a chance?”
“Oh my mistress, do not by any means destroy yourself, for if you live you may yet have good fortune, but all the dead are dead alike!”
–Hwin
Hey people, Kate Bornstein has a really good book called Hello Cruel World that discusses coping methods and ways to stay alive.
COPING SKILL OF THE WHENEVER
distress tolerance: radical acceptance
Sometimes things happen and it’s inevitable and they suck. This is where you radically accept them.
Radical acceptance has three parts, although my handout has them in four boxes for some reason.
1. Turning your mind
There’s a metaphorical fork in the metaphorical road. You can take one path and continue to refuse to accept the way things are and get really upset about something like the weather, or about something that might not even happen way in the future, or you can turn towards the other path, which is radical acceptance.
Turning your mind is making the decision that you are going to use the skill of radical acceptance. You may have to make this decision several times, and it alone is not the same thing as radically accepting something, but it’s a start.
2. Radical acceptance
“Pain creates suffering only when you refuse to accept the pain.”*
My therapist calls this “radical dealing with stuff,” because acceptance implies that it is okay. Radical acceptance is not about saying that bad things are okay. It is about “acknowledging what is”*, or in other words, about going “Hey, this sucks, but I have to deal with it, so I will.”
3. Be WILLING, not WILLFUL.
Willfulness is:
-not doing things that need to be done
-giving up
-trying to fix things that can’t be fixed
-refusing to accept the way things are
-ineffective
Willingness is:
-“Doing just what is needed”*
-Listening to your wise mind
-Being mindful of your surroundings
-Acting in the most effective manner
Willfulness is a habit, and habits can take a long time to break, but it is possible. Just keep trying to use the skills over and over and over again.
*Starred quotes from Skills Training Manual for Treating Borderline Personality Disorder. Other material adapted from the same.
Here is a thing about emotions: They are like a wave.
This means that, while you may be feeling something extreme, and that’s totally valid, it will pass.
Thank you for continuing to post on this thread, Dodecahedron.
You’re welcome! It helps me remember the things I learn in therapy if I write about them. And I’d like to think that it helps other people to read them. So everyone wins!
I haven’t been able to post here as much as I’d like, and with college coming soon and seeing my therapist via Skype instead of real life, I don’t know how much I’ll be able to post in the upcoming months. But when we talk about new things I’ll try to do mini-posts like the above one so I don’t neglect the thread completely.
BONUS SKILL FOR TODAY BECAUSE I FORGOT TO POST ABOUT IT BEFORE
middle-of-the-road thinking
I will illustrate this one via example.
I am afraid to go to college because I don’t know if my boyfriend will visit me and it’s far away. So I think: He won’t visit me, this will be terrible for our relationship, what if we have to break up…
To do middle-of-the-road thinking, I should think of other things that might happen:
1. Maybe I’m right and he won’t visit. Maybe it will stress our relationship.
2. Maybe, like Midnight Fiddler said in the Romance and Relationships thread recently about long-distance relationships, it will strengthen our love for each other to be apart.
3. Maybe he will visit and we will be happy and together in Rochester.
Thinking of alternatives keeps me from thinking “what if” and getting caught in a downward spiral of worry and projection. It’s better to avoid projecting at all, but if you can’t, this works too.
Here is another thing to do when you are anxious and it is important that you not be anxious.
Remember: emotions are not facts.
Put aside the emotion. Build a wall between you and it. Put it in a box and put the box in a shelf far away.
Schedule time to worry later.
When it comes time to worry, write down your feelings, and use some middle of the road thinking (see above) and remember that the worry will pass. Or, decide that the thing that you were worried about isn’t worth worrying about after all, and go out and build some positive experiences.
COPING SKILL TIME
interpersonal effectiveness: dear man
I don’t really have many problems with interpersonal effectiveness, so I haven’t been posting about it much. But I realized just now that not everyone has such a blessed life as me, and some people have to deal with a lot of crap that I don’t, and this skill might help them.
It’s another acronym where each letter is five to seven words, sorry about that….
DEAR MAN is a skill for getting what you want out of a situation.
Describe the current situation
Express your feelings and opinions on the situation
Assert yourself by asking for what you want or saying no clearly
Reinforce or reward the person ahead of time: Explain consequences
Mindfully keep your focus on your objectives; don’t be distracted
Appear confident and effective: good eye contact, no stammering
Negotiate: be willing to give to get
I don’t have this memorized or anything, I kind of do it automatically, but I do have it on a flash card, so you might want to make something of the sort if you run into things like this a lot.
Here is an example of someone using Dear Man:
(I just made this up, inspired by some of the comments I’ve seen on Rants and Plaints, using my name though so I don’t drag someone else into this)
Annie hates discussing religion with her parents because she doesn’t hold the same beliefs that they do. Her parents tell her things like, “You’re going to go to hell if you don’t join us.” One day, she gets fed up with this, but realizes that if she just blows up at them they will only say worse things to her. So, she checks the Coping thread and finds this post. She’s nervous about it, so she writes down what she’s going to say in advance and practices in front of a mirror so she won’t stutter and will get across the point she wishes to make. When she feels ready, Annie goes to her parents. She says: “You’ve been saying a lot of hurtful things to me because we don’t share the same religious beliefs. I’m really tired of this happening; I just want to get along with you. But I very strongly believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, so I am not going to lie to you in order to maintain peace between us. Please stop criticizing my religious beliefs. I will no longer engage in conversation with you if you’re going to insist that I am going to go to hell.” She says this slowly and clearly while looking straight at them. In the conversation that follows, she refuses to let her parents sidetrack her by talking about whether or not she is responsible. In the end, she agrees to go to church with the family and keep silent for it, and in exchange her parents agree to no longer pester her about her beliefs.
Of course, some people are just unreasonable, but in theory repeated application of Dear Man will eventually help you. Good luck!
Thank you so much.
Wow. I never figured I’d ever post on here, but here I go:
Today I asked my friend of six years if we could hang out this weekend. We haven’t talked since we had a rather heated religious debate over a month ago, so I figured that it would be good to hang out together. His response went thus:
I don’t think so.  I mean if we were friends that would be different, I mean we got nothing in common really.  I know we have known each other for a long time, but I just don’t really think it’s a good idea.
So, uh, this is the guy who I visited the house of close to a hundred times, and was the only one to consistently come to my birthday party every year I had one in the city where I live. I told him this, and asked if our religious debate was the precedent for this. Also, I told him frankly that I have so few friends already that it would kill me to lose even one. I just got his response to that a few minutes ago, and it went like this:
you have NOTHING to do with it.  I had [cake] happen at school to me and my best friend thanks to some lovely Christians, (fortunately they got in trouble) and frankly I don’t want to associate myself with Christians at the moment since Christianity is very nasty to me and all the protestant [cake] out there and the constant harassment i get that is driving me insane.  And our “friendship” can be paused for the moment for all i care. if i were u,i would leave me alone for the time being.
I’m really worried that I may lose one of the only friends I have. When I was in Mongolia, he sent me an email saying that he was now an atheist, but I honestly didn’t think it would affect our friendship at the time. I guess he doesn’t feel the same.
um… what? Your friend is making a huge mistake as far as I can tell. Just because one person who happens to be of a religion is intolerant/mean/stupid doesn’t mean everyone of the religion is. I know that, and you know that. It’s very unfortunate that he doesn’t know it.
Here is what I think you should do:
Radical acceptance. (post 20, read along with me)
1. Realize that you can’t change this person’s mind, and to do so would be willful and not willing.
2. Decide to accept this turn of events.
3. Give up, for now, on talking with that person. Accept that your friendship may not be the same. Remember: Pain creates suffering only when you refuse to accept the pain.
But, you say, I don’t want to give up on him. We were friends for so long.
You can then try to use another interpersonal effectiveness skill, GIVE, “to get or keep a good relationship.” I haven’t posted about it yet, so see below, because I’ll be writing that post right after this one is submitted. Be sure to use radical acceptance and to cope ahead of time for the conversation (that’s part of ABC PLEASE, post 10). And if you get upset during it, remember that emotions are not facts.
Best of luck to you!
…Wow. I’m really sorry. That’s… really bad. Generalizing like that…. Depending on the situation, whatever they did might not even have to do with Christianity and even if it did, it should be obvious that there are Christians who are just not like that. He really ought to know this.
Maybe you could try to explain that he’s generalizing to much using Dear Man? I mean, say some people were persecuting someone else for not having black hair. It ought to be quite clear that it’s their prejudice that’s the problem, not their black hair. It’s especially strange because I got the impression that most people become atheists because the logic that they use cause them to make the decision that there is no God, and in my experience, the people who make their decisions on that subject based on logic of any sort–no matter what their decision is–tend to be reasonable people. What he’s saying is simply not reasonable.
COPING SKILL TIME
interpersonal effectiveness: relationship effectiveness/GIVE
My flashcard for this says: “Goal: Get or keep a good relationship.” That is what this skill is about–how you act towards another person in order to stay on good terms with them.
Gentle: be courteous and temperate in your approach; no attacks, threats or judging
Interested: listen; be interested in the other person
Validate: validate the other person’s feelings, wants, difficulties, and opinions about this situation
Easy manner: Use a little humor; smile; be diplomatic; soft sell over hard sell
(The above material was taken from an index card made by my therapist and adapted from Marsha Linehan’s Skills Training Manual for Treating Borderline Personality Disorder. Below material adapted by me)
Here are a couple of examples:
muselover, above, has a friend who says that he doesn’t want to associate with en because en is a Christian and he’s been harassed by other Christians recently and does not himself believe in Christianity. muselover’s goal is to remain friends with this person.
En should say something like: “I’m sorry that you feel this way. I understand that it’s hard to be friends with someone when you feel that they hate you and everything you stand for. However, I hope that you can keep from blaming me for something that other people did to you. I want to be your friend. I don’t want to be mean to you or force my beliefs on you or anything like that. I just want to talk to you and do fun things together.”
This may not work, because people are stupid and wrong sometimes (not everyone uses DBT skills, even though they should), but notice how it uses all of the parts of GIVE.
~
Armada, on the relationship thread, still wants to be friends with a girl who has been acting like they’re in a relationship while denying that they are. She could say something like: “Lately you’ve been acting like we’re in a relationship. I’m uncomfortable with this, since we aren’t actually in a relationship. Could you please stop trying to cuddle with me? I really want to stay friends with you, but I might have to distance myself if you keep doing this, because I find it really stressful. I know it’s hard to change habits, so could we talk about why you’re doing this and maybe find a solution so that we can still be close (but not too close)?” Then, she listens to her friend’s response, validates it, and replies without attacking her.
Notice that this incorporates elements of DEAR MAN as well as GIVE.
That’s something I’m good at online but hopeless at in real life. I think the contrast is because online, you get as long as it takes to think of exactly what to say. IRL, it’s all spontaneous, and even if I get a general idea beforehand, it’s hard to keep track of. Does anyone have any tips?
Practice. Rehearse. Coach yourself. Study the people who you think do it right to see how they handle situations. Think of a typical situation and what you could say. Write it out. Say it out loud. Even sing it in the shower. Make flash cards.
Meanwhile…try pushing yourself an inch or so out of your comfort zone on a regular basis. It’s one of the most effective practices ever for dealing with life in general. In time you’ll notice that you’re relaxed in an ever-broadening range of circumstances. Challenging yourself is key to any skill. Spontaneity is much more likely to arise if you’re relaxed or can make yourself relax. Think of yourself as a science experiment. Think of everyone else as anthropological subjects.
That’s a jumble written in a rush because I am running headlong into an immovable deadline, but maybe something useful is lurking in there. These are all field-tested techniques. I can elaborate at a later date, if you wish.
Second paragraph is golden.
Thank you. I’m sure at least some of that will be very helpful. I should ask these sorts of things more often here.
Thanks for the info. He seems to fall into the stupid/wrong category, although the latter seems to be more prevalent.
I suppose this is just part of growing up.
Can I just say that although I don’t recall posting on this thread (Or if I have, it was right when the thread was first created) I really appreciate you writing down these tips? They’re things that I’m pretty sure apply to all of us in some way or another, and I’ve definitely used some of the techniques you’ve talked about, especially when I’ve been extra stressed out. So thank you. <3 Just wanted to let you know that you're helping at least one (And probably many more) people.
It’s funny. Over the last 24 hours I’ve been under some of the most intense emotional stress I’ve ever had, and I think I’ve come out a better and stronger person on the other end. Today I lost the first real friend I made in this city, but at least we aren’t enemies, like we were shaping up to be in the climax of our conversation. I think that this will prepare me for later in life when I may lose friends to other means, and I’ll likely receive more discrimination because of my religion.
In the words of Green Day, “It’s something unpredictable, but in the end it’s right. I hope you had the time of your life.”
Or, if you prefer, in the words of Piggy, “Wait for the dawn. The view will be spectacular.”
Thank you all for your support.
Oh, speaking of Green Day, did anyone remember to wake them up this year?
Ba-da-bump-shhhhh.
Piggy. You’re ruining the moment.
I figured that since I inadvertently provided a quote which added to the moment, I could afford to slightly detract from it as well.
Fair enough.
I’m glad you’ve been able to make the best of your situation. I should probably learn to do that as well.
The dawn. What a thing to look forward to.
*huggles*
When I’m upset, usually only two things can help me: music, and talking to someone I feel imperceptibly close to, whom I know won’t judge me. There aren’t a lot of people with whom I can do that (so I feel bad for the ones who can and whom I always lean on).
But honestly, there is a song for every mood, every experience, every situation. That’s what I love about it. You can basically have a soundtrack for your life.
Agreed. I listened to How to Save a Life on repeat for half an hour after the situation with J.
Hm. I’m not like that. Music can help, but talking to someone… No. Other things help me. Certain motions can help–I’m sure that’s related to how yoga works, although as far as I know, they’re not yoga moves–but people don’t like watching them, so I have to stay away. Apparently I look out of control, which is ironic, because it’s the only way I can stay in control (If I don’t push the wall, roll on my bed, etc, I’ll be sobbing out loud or hitting things; it seems obvious which is the better option), and reading can help. Music works much, much better if I’m singing than listening. Well, wait, I change my mind; that’s not true when I’m upset, but it’s true when I’m afraid. I’m afraid more often than I’m upset, and both happen often, so I get confused.
How to Save a Life? I’ve heard that several times, but I still never did quite figure out what the lyrics were. Usually, with songs, I can at least get a general idea.
How to Save a Life is a song about trying to prevent someone from committing suicide. It’s not the song I would choose for that particular situation–I happen to find it incredibly depressing–but to each their own. For your reference, the chorus as I remember it goes Where did I go wrong, I lost a friend/somewhere along in the wilderness/and I could have stayed up with you all night/if I’d known how to save a life
I believe that, while there is a song for every situation, that doesn’t mean there has to be for you. Music augments emotions, and I would rather not have some of my emotions augmented.
This isn’t a reply to your comment specifically, but on this general topic. Just minutes before I saw your post, I finished watching a 1989 documentary from Canadian TV about Stan Rogers (“One Warm Line,” for anyone who is interested; I found it on Google Video). Toward the end, a seaman told the story of how his ship went down during a harrowing late-night storm not far off the coast from Norfolk, Virginia. He swam for nearly an hour in the icy water before finding a lifeboat to cling to. Even so, the conditions were so rough he began to doubt he could live long enough for the Coast Guard to find him. Just as he was sure he had reached the limit of his endurance, the lines from the chorus of Stan Rogers’s “The Mary Ellen Carter” started singing in his mind:
Rise again, rise again – though your heart it be broken
And life about to end
No matter what you’ve lost, be it a home, a love, a friend.
Like the Mary Ellen Carter, rise again.
He held onto that chorus as tightly as he held onto the lifeboat, saying it, singing it, shouting it, over and over, between the smacks of the waves. “That song made the difference,” he said, “in me living through that night; there isn’t any question in my mind about it.” I looked up the fate of his ship, the Marine Electric. He was one of three survivors out of 34 crew.
There is a sea shanty that I like called Sailor’s Prayer that has a similar message. (I also like Mary Ellen Carter too.)
Though my sails be torn and tattered
And my mast be torned about
Let the night wind chill me to my very soul
Though the spray might sting my eye
And the stars no light provide
Give me just another morning light to hold
I will not lie me down, this rain a-ragin’
I will not lie me down, in such a storm
And if this night be unblessed, I shall not take my rest
Until I reach another shore
Yes, I know what the song’s about. It’s just that the general mood of it (as well as those good old alternate interpretations) really matched how I was feeling at the time.
Yes, I agree, music helps.
Either in expressing your emotions, or providing counter emotions to somewhat cancel out the negative ones.
Hmm… For me, it’s usually just …time, I guess. And listing to music. Posting on the ‘plaints thread or writing or running helps too. Talking doesn’t really work that well because I have no-one to talk too. It sounds stupid but I’ve never really told my friends most of what goes on. I just don’t want to tell some of them and the one I really wanted to tell was already outraged that my parents tried to make me choose between them, even before I started on the if-you-choose-the-other-parent-I won’t speak to you/you’re not part of the family anymore. I guess I probably should have told them from the start, but… whatever. It sounds more dramatic like this, I guess. I mean, I don’t really feel like part of a family anyway so that’s not such a big loss and sometimes I wish my mom would let me be because she’s really quite overbearing/overprotective/pushy sometimes and I can deal with my dad’s tactics (withdrawing all support) much better.
True, I still live with them and I would like to maintain a good relationship with my family, but I’m also ready to leave and really looking forwards to living on my own and being able to support myself. I’m not laboring under the delusion that I’m all grown up and know everything I need to know or that everything will be easy from here on out, but I’m ready to go and I’m not afraid of people letting me down when I desperately need their help- it’s happened a few times, I was devastated but I’m still alive and I got over it and picked myself up again and finally learned from the experience.
Except PMS. For some reason, I want to cry and start manically laughing right now. Ah well.
SO THOROUGHLY AGREE WITH THIS as is evident by my top played songs on itunes le sigh
LIFE IN A MENTAL HOSPITAL
a very special episode of the coping thread
Once I spent a little over a week institutionalized for depression. (March 24- April 3, 2010, to be specific. Not that it’s burned irrevocably into my memory or anything.) I haven’t really ever written about it before, because I can’t make the words come out, and I just end up trying to write endless introductions and failing to make anything meaningful come out of it.
I don’t think that this really belongs anywhere on-blog, but there seems to be demand for it, and Cat’s Eye requested that it be on the Coping thread.
I really don’t want to scare people away from getting help that they need because I didn’t have a great experience being hospitalized and they’re afraid it will happen to them. So:
A disclaimer: THIS IS JUST ONE PERSONAL ANECDOTE. MY EXPERIENCE IS NOT NECESSARILY INDICATIVE OF MENTAL HOSPITALS AS A WHOLE.
And a note: AT THE TIME, HOSPITALIZATION WAS NECESSARY FOR ME. IT IS NECESSARY ONLY IN THE MOST EXTREME CASES, AND ALTHOUGH IT DID SOME DAMAGE, I AM ALIVE NOW AND I MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN OTHERWISE. SO IT ACCOMPLISHED ITS PURPOSE.
THE ADMISSIONS PROCESS
They searched me thoroughly. They looked at most of my non-private parts and asked what every injury on them was from. They ran over all my clothes with a metal detector to make sure I didn’t have any safety pins or razor blades or anything dangerous. Or a belt. Those are dangerous. (later in my stay I knew of someone who had a belt and was planning to strangle a staff member with it so she could escape. don’t worry, they found the belt and took it before that happened) The admissions process, the next day, also included a complete physical. Also they searched everything I brought before giving it to me. Clothes with drawstrings weren’t allowed for much the same reason as belts. (Some staff members would cut off the drawstrings and let you have the clothes anyway but some just would leave your clothes with your luggage/give them back to your parents before they left/confiscate your clothes and leave them in nurse’s station or somewhere.)
THINGS WHICH YOU WOULD THINK WOULD BE ALLOWED BUT WEREN’T
belts (they had zip ties if your clothes were falling down or apart without one)
pencils with erasers (the metal part was a problem, they gave you golf pencils if you asked at nurse’s station)
toiletries (they were kept in sharps closet. Sharps are anything you can’t have because it’s dangerous but you kind of need toiletries so they were kept in a closet and dispensed in little paper cups if you wanted to shower.)
laundry detergent (some people were there for months, although they said the average stay length was 7-10 days. You did laundry. The detergent was dispensed in paper cups at nurse’s station.)
tampons and related items (…I don’t even know why. If you had your period, you had to ask at nurse’s station. Nurse’s station, by the way, was a room in the center of the building with counters all around it. Staff members were always on duty there.)
musical instruments (even playing one is a level 4 privilege, but since at the time it was a month before I had a judged solo, my parents threatened them until they let me keep the trombone in a staff member’s office and let me practice during lunch. This plan was solid in theory and did not really work in practice—either they’d forget to bring me a lunch tray or forget to get my trombone at lunch time even though I was standing there waiting or something else would go wrong)
etc.
THE PEOPLE THERE
The other girls who were hospitalized at the same time as me were, for the most part, incredibly nice. One girl waited in front of the kitchen for hours until it opened to get me water when the medications I was taking made me pass out whenever I stood up. I made friends. I had to, because staff were always watching and if you didn’t make friends you were isolating yourself from other people and it would be seen as a sign that you were still depressed. People were there for all sorts of reasons—one girl I knew had been caught in school with alcohol and had some family problems. Another girl had problems with feeling that someone dangerous was following her, and was scared and not sure if she should kill herself or if the man following her would. A few people there had anger issues. Lots of people were self-injuring and depressed. The thing that I keep repeating, the thing that I didn’t expect—they were friendly, we had a lot in common. While some of them were undoubtedly veterans of the hospital and of far worse situations than mine, none of them were so hardened as to be unapproachable. I keep in touch with some of them still.
A DAY IN THE LIFE
There was a schedule that staff sort of followed, but they were usually late. Breakfast and morning meds at a certain time in the building with our rooms and a couple lounges. Walk to the school building, two hours of classes. Morning group, where we set goals for our day. DBT Skills group, where they would go over one DBT skill a week, poorly. Other groups. People who lived in Northgate, the building I was in, were in red group or blue group. Red group met in the girls’ common room, which was red. Blue group met in the boys’ common room, which was blue. Pretty simple. Lunch (and lunch meds) in a cafeteria in another building. Quiet time after meals. In the afternoon, a gym or music or art activity, and more groups. Dinner and dinner meds.(My parents visited me every day during visiting hours and brought dinner with them. Most parents didn’t.) Free time after that, or maybe a movie. Night snack and meds. Curfew.
You would never be forced to go to an activity, but if you didn’t it reflected negatively on your effort to get better. They also didn’t do a great job of announcing activities, leading to a constant state of paranoia in me. I asked for, and received, a printed copy of the schedule. They thought I was OCD. I thought they were disorganized and incompetent.
SPECIAL EVENTS
I was hospitalized during Passover. There was a box of matzo in the kitchen but it would have been impossible for me to keep Kosher. There were no seders.
I left the Saturday before Easter. I don’t think there were any church services either, but maybe I just didn’t go to them.
To consider the term “special events†in another context, one day I was taken out of activities for a full psychiatric evaluation. They tested my intelligence (WAIS for adolescents), my personality (MMPI-A), how depressed I was (there’s two or three scales for it), and a ton of other things, for eight hours. It was grueling but rewarding. (My IQ, for the record, is 136, and they said people tended to test five points lower than usual when hospitalized. Note that IQ says nothing about how good you actually are, only about your potential.)
ABOUT MEDICATION
Everyone in the mental hospital was required to be taking medication. I could talk in detail about the fifteen medications I have been on throughout the course of my treatment. Suffice it to say that it’s hard to find the right medication, but totally worth it when you do. I would not be a functional human being were it not for my medication—for a while after the depression struck me last year, I wasn’t. I hope to eventually be good enough at coping to not need medication to be stable, but that’s probably years of work away for me.
At the hospital, you were assigned an individual psychologist and psychiatrist. You met with your individual psychologist every couple of days to discuss your treatment, feelings, etc. To be honest, I didn’t click really well with mine. Your psychiatrist prescribes your meds and you only see them when things go wrong or once every couple weeks. I saw mine three or four times over ten days.
MY OVERALL IMPRESSIONS OF HOSPITALIZATION
After being hospitalized, I made it one of my personal goals to never be unwell enough to be hospitalized again. It’s kept me motivated through over a year of therapy, countless medication changes, and personal setbacks.
It helped me realize how many people care about me, and how much they care. Depression is a selfish disease masquerading as altruistic. It whispers “they would be better off without you†when the truth is that they would be devastated without you, are devastated even by your hospitalization.
Thank you for sharing this, Dodec. *hugs*
And thank you for what you said at the end. From what I’ve seen in my friends and family with depression (it runs in my family, and killed my great-grandmother and almost my grandmother), depression is exactly what you said: selfish masquerading as altruistic.
Orion used to tell me that some of the time, depression felt natural. It felt right to have it, and right to feel this way. He felt like this was the way it was supposed to be, and by taking different medications and messing around with it, he was doing something wrong.
I think the worst part of all of it was how powerfully and utterly he wanted to give up on himself. I didn’t know what I could tell him or what I would say that would trigger him into hitting another deeply depressive mood that I wouldn’t be able to bring him out of.
It was so, so scary, and it hurt so, so much. The day before I snapped, we were at the midnight showing of Harry Potter 7.2, and we were sitting with our friends, and it was the strangest thing, but he kept holding his breath. He’d hold it for a minute or more at a time, simply because he could. And I wanted to tell him what your parents always tell you when you do that, that it kills brain cells, and I realized he simply wouldn’t care.
The moment I broke was when he posted, late at night once on a blogging site we both used to use, that he was done writing. We’d been discussing writing in the movie theater. He’s only just started trying to write creatively this past year, so obviously he’s not very good, but I had been trying to encourage him. I was trying to encourage him, and then I happened to mention I didn’t really like one particular piece he’d written. And he just gave up, and he wrote later he was done writing because the best thing he’d ever done was a piece of cake.
I was frightened, and I felt sick to my stomach, and I cut myself again. And after that, I told him I couldn’t do it any more. And that was the last time I cut myself.
It was the worst experience of my life, having to see him go through that. And he shouldn’t have had to. That was not the way things were supposed to be. I would not have been better off without him, and I would not have been better off with him unhappy. Depression told him, and probably is still telling him, that things are better with him miserable, that medication will hurt him, that he’s not wanted and not worth it and not loving or lovable or loved.
I couldn’t help him. I couldn’t make him see himself as worthwhile. I couldn’t make him see the world as worthwhile. I still can’t. I don’t know why he’s alive right now, and I don’t know if he’s being helped, or how he’s being helped, because if I let myself invest in him again, I would begin cutting myself again, and worse. Depression runs in my family. I have come so close to it, so many times. My grandmother is irrational, erratic, deeply not okay because of it. My great-grandmother is dead because of it. I couldn’t let myself get that close.
And the most frightening part of cutting myself, in retrospect, is the nonchalance of it. Make a cut, draw a butterfly, it was all the same. And I know, right at this moment, that self-injury was and is not a constructive or a good response to my emotions, but I don’t know how precarious that knowledge is.
This post is far too long already, so I’ll end it here, and maybe talk about Orion or Demeter or Terpsichore or saving my life in such unlikely ways later. Thank you for sharing that, so much, Dodecahedron, and thank you for posting what you do. You are incredibly kind, compassionate, and helpful, and you are making a difference.
[[WARNING FROM GAPAS: DEPRESSING MATERIAL AND NOT MUCH COPING ADVICE HERE. NOT FOR ANYONE FEELING FRAGILE.]]
This is a really long story, and it started a long time before I was born. I’m going to be posting it in parts, partially to try to explain to people what depression has looked like from my point of view, partially because I just need to tell it to someone, and partially I don’t know why.
When my mother was ten, my great-grandmother jumped off a bridge and killed herself. She had depression. This was in 1972. I don’t think she was taking medication.
She and my grandmother didn’t have the best relationship. My great-grandmother wanted my grandmother to call her more, talk to her more, spend more time with her. My grandmother didn’t want to. So right before she went to the bridge, my great-grandmother called my family on the phone. My mother’s family was out at dinner. They didn’t even know she’d called until after she’d jumped.
She left a message on the answering machine to my grandmother. It said, “This is your fault. If you had picked up the phone, I wouldn’t have done this. I wouldn’t have killed myself if you had cared about me. But you didn’t. You didn’t pick up the phone, you didn’t care about me, and because of you, I did this. It’s your fault I killed myself.”
Depression runs in the women in my family. My grandmother had it. Has it. My mother doesn’t, thank God. We don’t know if I do or not.
My grandmother believed her. She believed it was her fault. Completely.
A few years later, she had a nervous breakdown. She might have also tried to commit suicide. I don’t know. The upside is, she ended up in the hospital.
I’ll post more later.
[[WARNING FROM GAPAS: DEPRESSING MATERIAL AND NOT MUCH COPING ADVICE HERE. NOT FOR ANYONE FEELING FRAGILE.]]
Continued:
So my grandmother had a nervous breakdown and ended up in and out of the hospital for the next few years. While in the hospital, drugged out of her mind on meds and trauma, she had what Mom describes as a “personal experience with Jesus Christ”. My family has been Jewish for the past two thousand years.
My grandmother spent so much time in the hospital that she missed my mom’s high school years. My grandfather has always been a distant person; he just isn’t good at showing his love for his family in ways other than working and providing for them. My mother spent high school finding her family outside of her home. The major place she found this family was in BBYO, a Jewish youth organization.
My grandmother came back from the hospital saying Jesus had saved her. Though I don’t believe anything happened to her in the hospital that didn’t take place entirely in her head, I suppose Jesus did save her in a way. Her faith is the reason she can keep going. Her meds aren’t helping like they should. Her religion gives her the strength to go on.
To my mother, my grandmother had abandoned her for the last time. My mother left for college and didn’t look back.
She met my father there, and thirteen years later, they had their first child, my older brother, and in another two years, me. My mother told my grandmother if she mentioned her faith around me or my brother, she wouldn’t ever be allowed to see either of us again.
My mother told me all of this when I was twelve, and then told me, leaning forward, her voice intense, that she was so, so relieved that I was a happy child. She was so glad that I was cheerful, and normal, and it was the greatest thing in the world to her that I couldn’t possibly be depressed. My great-grandmother had been depressed, and it had ruined my grandmother’s life. It had accelerated her depression. It had made her not rational, it had made her not okay.
That’s what depression looks like in my household. It looks like my great-grandmother’s ghost. It looks like my grandmother’s shadow. My mother is terrified beyond words, beyond anything else, beyond even her conscious thoughts, that I will turn out like my great-grandmother or grandmother. “Suicide,” she tells me, “is the most selfish thing anyone can possibly do. In order to kill yourself, you have to not care about anyone else around you. If someone is suicidal, it’s their responsibility. It’s not anyone else’s. It’s not yours.”
It took me a long, long time to understand how she was wrong.
I grew up, like my mother, utterly terrified of depression and suicide. So when I talked to Orion, whenever he was cynical or unhappy, I would have to react in a knee-jerk way. I would always reassure him that the world was happy, that he was happy, that people were good.
Of course I know the warning signs of depression. I’ve just about memorized them. He told me he’d been feeling low, sleeping a lot more, didn’t know why he was unhappy but he had been for about a year. I told him he should tell other people about it. He told me he had, that he was seeing a doctor the next day. I was relieved, because doctors fix things, right? That’s what they do, right?
He announced to me and Terpsichore a few days later that yes, it was official, he had depression. And I was so, so scared, because however much I didn’t want to be like my mom, I was turning into her: everyone sad, everyone depressed or suicidal, was suddenly my great-grandmother. Everyone was suddenly my grandmother. I told him he could always use me as a resource, and he thanked me.
That’s when the two or three-month period started in which he did use me as a resource. I’m not sure how good of a resource I was. He would be cynical, and I would use all the poetry and art and logic that I had in me to try to make him feel better. I wrote him poems, I drew him comics and pictures, I argued logically. I don’t know if it helped.
Here was my logic: I could pour all the energy and life I had into him, and it would help him, and he would be at least a little better.
Continued later.
Dear GAPAs:
I would like the Coping thread to remain a space you can go to when you are not feeling safe, and where you can read about other people’s tips for making yourself feel better.
Lately, I feel that this thread has turned into something like Rants and Plaints, except focused on mental state.
The last thing I want to do is to stop people like Cat’s Eye from posting. Writing about your life and your feelings is important, and I do find it interesting. But can we please have an alternate place for those type of posts? Sometimes when I am sad I like to remind myself of skills by rereading my posts here, and I am wary of going on the thread when I’m not feeling well if people are going to post potentially triggering things on it.
At the very least, could we institute a system for warning about potentially triggering posts?
Thanks,
Dodecahedron
I’ve added warning labels to both of Cat’s Eye’s posts.
I’m really sorry, Dodec. I should have thought of that. You’re right, the Coping thread is a place to go to help you cope, not a place for mental health-oriented Rants & Plaints. I’m also sorry to the GAPAs for having to put in a trigger warning. That’s definitely something I should have known to do on my own.
I second the request for a place to post these things, and once again, I’m really sorry.
All is forgiven. I completely understand why you want to post about it, and why you thought that this would be a better place than, say, the Random thread. I just want to keep this thread safe and happy.
So, many of you will remember my posts about the averted Crisis of the Books. For those who don’t, a breif summary; Mom and Dad said they were taking away my books and I cried a lot and then told them that I wanted to see a councilor and they decided they didn’t need to take away my books after all.
Anyway, I’ve been to a psychologist twice now. Apparently what I diagnosed as mysophobia is in fact OCD, (not that it makes much of a difference), and it’s plenty treatable. I thought I would share the strategies for dealing with it that I’m learning, in case they help anyone.
This is all from a book called Talking Back to OCD As you may have gathered, it’s aimed at curing OCD, but it may be helpful for dealing with other phobias.
The first time I went, my psychologist basically said that I should put myself in uncomfortable situations, deal with the fear. Eventually, the anxiety will go away. Pretty straightforward.
The book is in several steps. The first one is to remove blame from yourself, give your OCD a name. For younger kids, they recommend calling it something like ‘Mr. Stinky’, but if that sounds stupid just calling it OCD or mysophobia or whatever is okay too. I think it would also be cool to call it Voldemort or something, to give you more motivation to beat it.
Once you’ve given it a name, you start thinking of it as ‘OCD(/Mr. Stinky/Voldemort) is making me do this’ instead of ‘I have to do this’. I don’t really know where this is leading, since I haven’t gotten there yet.
I’m not sure if this’ll be at all helpful to anyone, but I hope it is.
Sorry it took so long for me to respond to this; college has been crazy and I’ve been too busy trying to keep myself sane to try and take care of the internet.
In general, I find that it helps to not think “I have to do this” about things.
Anecdote time:
A therapist I once had (actually I forget which one) told me that I chose to shut down when presented with stressful situations (this is how my depression presented itself: I became unable to do anything but lie in one place and cry. I haven’t actually done that since college started, for the record.). I didn’t believe her at the time–it didn’t feel like I could choose to not do it. But in retrospect, she was right. It was a choice. I chose to shut down because I couldn’t think of any other options. Now, after years of work, I have other choices, like “put the fear and worry in a box far away” and “do something happy.”
So basically what I’m trying to say is that (a) your book has the right idea and (b) your condition is completely treatable; you can and will recover. <3
I’m glad you’re getting it treated!
My friend/acquaintance got hit by a truck and is in the hospital: fractured skull, massive internal bleeding. Sad. Scary.
I have nothing more to say.
For those of you that get through your troubles by listening to music (like I do) I recommend “Can You See Me Now” by Benni Cinkle. Remember the awkward girl in pink in the “Friday” video? Yeah, that’s her. The actual music video is pretty powerful so if you can’t stand emotion find one of the lyrical videos.
Cave Johnson, we’re done here.SFTDP It doesn’t seem clear enough to me so I’ll just clarify.
Music video=trigger warning. Seriously.
so I don’t have any new skills to share because, um… I kind of skipped therapy this week to see a movie with my boyfriend. It might not have been the best idea, but I stand by it.
But! I have something else for you.
IT GETS BETTER
like for lgbtq* people, but with depression/anxiety
Two years ago, I:
-stopped being able to complete schoolwork
-was miserable
-started cutting
-would lie in one place crying for hours instead of accomplishing something towards what was stressing me
-was considering suicide
Why?
The same reasons that many of you have.
-School was stressful. I was taking three AP classes, and everyone knew that junior year was the year colleges looked at when they decided if they wanted you or not.
-I was overcommitted to extracurricular activities. On a regular basis, I would leave for school at 6:30am and not get home until 9:30pm.
-I was having relationship stress. My girlfriend was completely at a loss when faced with my increasingly poor self-control and while she tried to help, she wasn’t the most stable person to rely on and it led to problems. (Is that her fault? No. I was absolutely not fair to her. After someone has been begging you for weeks on end, please help me, I’m scared, and you do everything that you can and nothing helps, it takes a toll… is it my fault? No. I didn’t know how to do anything else.)
-And maybe, the doctors still aren’t sure, I might have had a genetic predisposition to mental illness.
What happened?
I went to a mental hospital.
(It didn’t help, but I survived. It made me a stronger person.)
I changed therapists.
(I’m still with the person I changed to. We talk over Skype when I’m at school.)
I found the right medication.
(And it took months, and I couldn’t function at all on a lot of the other medications I tried. And it was entirely worth it.)
I broke up with my girlfriend.
(Yes, it was awful at first, but again: I survived.)
School ended.
(When it started again, I cut myself off from the more stressful activities. The second half of the year, I started going to college early. This isn’t an option for everyone, but anecdotally, a lot of the stresses my high school had just vanished at college.)
And now:
I am a freshman at my first choice school.
I still take medication, and I still go to therapy almost every week.
But it’s worth it.
The last time I really cried about something, the last time I shut down in a way that prevented me from doing work, was during finals week. A professor refused to give me an extension on a programming project I was doing extra work on, using an out of date library that just didn’t have the functionality that was required. I called home, and I called my therapist, and I talked to them, and then I stopped crying and finished the project as best I could.
The last time before that? October.
Is it always ideal? No. When I’m tired I often lose the ability to determine whether my emotions are facts or not. And often I’m sad. But I feel better in the morning.
so this might just come off as me bragging, but that’s not what I want to do. I want to be here to remind you of something: Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. And it seems like it won’t ever get better, or like there’s nothing you can do, and that is just not true.
Great work, Dodecahedron! I’m so happy to hear how well you’ve done, and I’m also very glad you’ve had the courage to share your story. I think quite a few MBers could benefit from your struggle, your progress, and your perceptive reflections. Indeed, sometimes lately I’ve been tempted to post “see Coping Thread” several times a day in response to various comments. It’s so important to know that one is NOT at the mercy of one’s emotions, that there ARE steps to take. But it’s also important to understand that the process takes time and repeated efforts — and also that stumbles and missteps are part of the package that comes with being human. As we develop coping skills, however, recovery from those stumbles does get easier. Moreover, sometimes you can see them coming in time to soften the fall even when you can’t prevent them entirely.
Thank you so much for your contributions to MuseBlog.
Dodec, I’d like you to know that this thread, and all of your advice on coping skills, has really helped me (especially DEAR MAN. I can DEAR MAN the heck out of people). Thanks!
Copied from the Rants and Plaints thread by the request of Rebecca:
Being kind to myself is the only way I stay sane. I don’t know why anyone would voluntarily become their own worst enemy.
A few months ago I found some “motivational†type blog posts, the first “motivational†anything that has held any value at all for me. None of this junk about “aiming for the stars†or “working hard†or “achieving the impossibleâ€. No, the advice this person gave was actually viable. Realistic. The four points that hit home the most for me were as follows.
First: don’t have high standards; have wide standards. He wrote it in the context of learning Japanese–don’t say, “I’m going to learn 100 kanji per day,†say, “I’m going to learn some kanji–even if it’s next to nothing–for 100 days straight.†You don’t run a marathon by aiming to run as fast as you can–you try to run for as long as you can, even if it’s very slowly.
Second: One is bigger than zero. It’s that simple. No one has ever failed at something by not doing it enough–they’ve failed because they didn’t do it at all. If you’re an unathletic person like me and you decide you want to run a marathon, literally anything that gets me closer to my goal is good. Even if the absolute maximum is walking once around a track–that is infinity times better than not walking. Walk once around the track. Then do it again, if you can. Don’t step out the door and order yourself to run twenty laps without a break–you’ll give up almost immediately, and do zero. Just do one. It’s the same concept that people use when they’re doing something unproductive–no one says, “Today I’m going to spend the entire day browsing the internet and eating cheese puffs.†They say, “I’m just going to check a few emails and maybe have a little snack.†After a few “just a little longerâ€s, the day is as gone as the cheese puffs.
Third: The key to doing anything you don’t want to do is to make it easier to do it than not do it. Telling yourself, “Self, today you have to exercise.†You’re not going to do it if you don’t want to. Instead, tell yourself, “Self, today you have to put on your tennis shoes and sweatpants and walk out the front door.†That’s easy to do. But once you’re outside wearing sweatpants and tennis shoes, it’s much easier to tell yourself to exercise. So instead of telling yourself to write a ten-page paper, tell yourself to sit at your desk and start typing. If it increases the probability that your vague goal will get done, then do it. Even if it’s tiny, it’s closer to the goal than doing nothing.
Finally: Compare your progress to absolutely no one except yourself. When you’re learning a language, should you spend your time measuring how well you can speak it compared to native speakers, who have spent 100 percent of their lives being constantly exposed to it? Obviously not. It’s just going to frustrate you, and for what? Nothing. Absolutely no one has the same circumstances as you do in any given subject, so comparisons are simply not possible, and certainly not productive. Compare yourself only to your past self. If you’re closer to your goal than you were earlier, then keep doing what you’re doing. If you’re not closer, then try something new.
Obviously these are pretty rudimentary summations of a much larger corpus of writing, but these are the basic ideas that have helped me. I realized that motivation isn’t some ethereal force or some genetic disposition–it’s a choice. Michael Phelps didn’t have some ghostly Spirit of Motivation yelling at him to practice his swimming; he decided that he wanted to work towards a goal. Similarly, success isn’t a fixed value or a universal constant. Success–all success, in every field, for every person–happens when an individual is satisfied that their goal has been achieved. For some people, the goal was to make a lot of money, or do get a certain grade in school, or to win a certain race. For other people, being successful might mean learning how to hula hoop or reading a novel or living in a little apartment and writing poetry. Don’t confuse your goals with those of other people. That’s like taking a train to Paris and getting upset that you didn’t end up in Amsterdam like some other people did–your goal was Paris, not Amsterdam. Luckily, unlike with trains, we can change our goals whenever we want. If we realize that we’ve been aiming for someone else’s goal, or if our goal doesn’t hold its attraction anymore, we can just change tracks.
Anyway, this sort of thinking is what’s helped me. I haven’t missed a single day of kanji since I started, and if you told that to me a year ago, I would absolutely not believe you. I’ve started eating healthier, exercising more, going to bed earlier (I’m almost turning into a morning person now), even flossing every single day. Because I realized that motivation is a choice. With that, everything because extremely simple. Nothing’s forcing you to act a certain way–not social pressures, not genetics, not anything. Those sorts of things can somewhat change the costs and benefits, but in the end every choice is 100 percent yours. And if you’re choosing to do something that makes you a worse, unhappier person, then I think you need to choose something else.
So there is a trick I use when I’m deciding something important. It works for everyone that I’ve shown, probably because of basic human psychology.
Get a coin. Assign heads and tails. Flip.
It doesn’t matter how it lands. You shouldn’t let chance decide for you.
It’s how you feel as it’s spinning. As it’s about to hit the ground, there’s a split second where you know exactly which side you truly want it to land on. And that right there is how you should decide. It’s a trigger for looking inside yourself, and it works for me every time I need to decide something.
Woah… THAT feeling.
Except I won’t actually get a coin. I’ll think that I should, ask myself “What would I do in the case of either of these events?” and then ask “If I’m being honest with myself, which side do I really want it to land on?”
It usually works just as well, except I don’t have to go scrounge around for spare change. XD
Thats interesting psychology. I think I shall use that often. ^_^
But sometimes it isn’t about what you truly want. Sometimes the decisions you make are between what you want and what you know you need to do. Sometimes the decision is between what will give you momentary happiness and what will make you a better person. And which part of your mind, in that split second, will win out? I probably sound very cynical trying to voice my opposition. I apologize if it didn’t make much sense.
I do the same thing.
So over the past few months I’ve learned stuff, especially coping mechanisms, about my various issues that I think would be relevant to this thread:
SENSORY OVERLOAD
The main thing to do when you are going into sensory overload is to limit your sensory input. The ideal thing to do is remove yourself from the overwhelming situation and go to a quiet, dark place, but unfortunately this isn’t always possible. Looking at the ground for a long time instead of around you is an option, of course. So is carrying around a pair of earplugs to put in your ears, or headphones that block out noise well. If it’s not possible to get to a quiet, dark place, but you can still leave the situation, go to a place that is at least quieter and darker. A nice, calm coffee shop can work.
If you’re in a crowd, that can make sensory issues worse. I would recommend at least getting out of a crowd. They can limit your ability to breathe, make you feel trapped and claustrophobic, and send you into a greater panic. As mentioned before, this isn’t always possible.
The panic that sensory overload gives you is caused by a hormone that sends your brain into “fight or flight” mode. Because of this, reducing the panic itself can help calm you, if not solve the actual problem (the overwhelming sensory input). The breathing exercise I’m going to post below is a good strategy.
TRICHTILLOMANIA
Trichtillomania is the compulsion to pull out your own hair. I don’t know how common it is, but I as well as two of my friends have it, so maybe this’ll be relevant to some of you.
Trichtillomania can be caused by any number of things. For one of my friends, it’s a reaction to stress. For another, it’s related to her OCD. For me, it has to do with my compulsive need to always be doing something with my hands.
For all of us, however, it helps to do something that actually limits our ability to pull at our hair. Wearing a hat or putting your hair up in a bun apparently helps. I’ve been pulling at my hair much less since I got it cut short. This doesn’t work if you pull at your eyebrows or eyelashes, however.
It also helps to have something to do with your hands. My therapist gave me Play-Doh, which I use almost constantly. This has cut way, way down on the amount of hair-pulling I do, as well. I don’t know what you could use besides Play-Doh or silly putty, but having a piece of paper to crinkle and uncrinkle might help, or a piece of rope to tie knots in, or one of those wire thingies to form into different shapes.
STRESS, AND A BREATHING EXERCISE
I think just about every single person who’s posted on the R&P thread has had problems with stress at some point, honestly. This is a breathing exercise I learned in yoga. It’s one of the most useful things I’ve ever learned.
First, make yourself comfortable. It’s best if you’re sitting down with your legs uncrossed, or lying down with your limbs uncrossed. Your body should be in a position that is as relaxed as possible.
Next, actually relax your body. Start by curling your toes up tight into your feet, holding them there until they hurt, and then releasing them. Tense your ankle strongly, hold, and release. Do the same with your calf muscles, your knees, your thighs, your stomach muscles. Hold your breath for a long time, tightening your chest muscles, then release. Lift your shoulders up to your ears, then release. Squeeze your face like you’ve bitten into a lemon, then release. Tense your arm, your wrist, your fingers, and release. (Be sure to notice what parts of your body seemed to be more tense; it may be useful knowledge.)
Now begin to breathe in for a count of four, out for a count of eight. Try to clear your mind of everything but the rhythm of your breath. Thoughts will pass across the surface of your mind; acknowledge them, and let them go.
This next part requires that you close your eyes, so be sure to find out exactly what you’re doing before doing it. Close your eyes and imagine a huge sea of clear, healing light surrounding you. With each inhale on the count of four, picture this light rushing into you and spreading down your spine and from there to the rest of your body. With each exhale to the count of eight, picture all of the stresses, worries, and negative energy of your day gathering into a black cloud, which you blow out into the sea of light, where it dissipates. Repeat this for as long as you need to. (It helps to have a word to focus on as you inhale, and another one for as you exhale. I inhale on “hope” and exhale on “love”, but you can use whatever you want.)
If afterwards you feel relaxed and re-energized, this exercise has worked for you! If not, well, breathing exercises don’t always work for everyone. I hope this was helpful, nevertheless!
About sensory overload- those are really good tips. Another thing that works for me is covering my eyes with my hands so they form a sort of cave, or putting a hat over my eyes, or hiding my face in a book. People stare at me, but that’s hardly the bigger issue. Small places, or anywhere I don’t feel exposed, work really well.
Specific other sensory overload coping strategies that are useful to me, and maybe for other people: Staring into a cup of tea, pulling my hair over my face, wearing clothes that I can sort of shrink into if I need to (long skirts and sweaters work for this), and singing or humming with my fingers in my ears- that makes humming sound louder to the person who’s humming without annoying people nearby.
Also, if you have your fingers in your ears, people are more likely to realize what’s going on, in my experience, even if the reason is actually humming-related. Earplugs have the nice side effect of making humming louder to the hummer as well, incidentally.
When I go into sensory overload–which happens at least once a week, usually in the same circumstance (which I unfortunately can’t get out of until the end of school without also giving up things that are really important to me)–I try to always have earplugs handy. The fact that it’s repeatedly being caused by the same situation means I can usually predict when it might happen, so that’s easier for me than it might be for others. Anyway, I’ve noticed a lot of my coping strategies for sensory overload are probably really more general panic strategies–or not general because they’re not normal, but still. For example, I tend to rock back and forth if sitting down or sway from side to side if sitting up, look at the nearest wall, hum or sing, and rub the carpet or my thighs. Then I realized that I do these things when stressed for other reasons as well, just not nearly as often because I don’t get stressed for other reasons nearly as often. I don’t do much that’s really sensory-specific, apart from covering my ears if it’s especially bad and begging (rarely successfully) to go to the library if it’s about to turn into a full-fledged panic attack. Unfortunately, no matter what I do, I get questions often due to the conspicuousness of virtually all of my coping mechanisms, from “Are you alright?” to “What are you doing?” to “Are you meditating?” (which is of course absolutely ridiculous because if I was, would I want interruption?).
I carry around earplugs on my keyring, so they’re with me literally all the time. All of this is excellent advice, really.
Thanks for contributing!
One of my best friends pulls her eyebrows and eyelashes out. She goes to therapy for it because she’s been trying to stop for months. Everyone teases her for it, but I just choose to ignore it and move on.
*sigh* If only everyone else would choose to move on
I’ve been feeling kind of blah the past few days and I just came across the Stephen Fry quote that I found comforting in the past, so I thought I’d post it here.
Interviewer: Give us your best tip for overcoming depression.
Stephen Fry: To regard it as being like the weather. It’s not your responsibility that it’s raining, but it is real when it rains, and the fact that it’s raining does not mean that the rain is never going to stop. The only thing to do is to believe that, one day, it won’t be raining and accept it so you can find a mental umbrella to shield yourself from the worst. The sun will eventually come up.
I was poking around on the internets the other day and was feeling pretty sad because my parents just left and I’m all alone again. So I came across Mr. Rogers and thought that it would be fun to watch one of his episodes again. They’re all on amazon prime instant, so that was good.
I watched a random episode of Mr. Rogers’ Neighborhood. And near the end, he said, “You know, I’m proud of you. Really, I’m proud of you. And you should be proud of yourself, too.”
That made me feel so happy–Mr. Rogers is proud of me. He’s right, though. I do need to be proud of myself; think about what I can do instead of what I can’t.
Mr. Rogers is such a great show to watch when you’re sad–it’s so calm and quiet, and he doesn’t assume anything about you. Anyone is welcome to Mr. Rogers’ Neighborhood. And then he tells you that you’re a great person, and he’s always right. Always.
:3 Mmmhmm.
I loved that show as a kid.
I found out that he died the same day that I found out that my stepdad died.
I should re-watch it sometime.
I learned so much cool stuff like how balloons are made.
I found out about ten minutes ago that one of my childhood best friends died yesterday.
She was one of the most amazing people I’ve ever known: imaginative, intelligent, musical, brilliant, absolutely insane. I always looked up to her. She would have been a muser had we ever given her a copy of muse.
After middle school, we went to different high schools, and I didn’t get to talk to her barely at all.
Now, she’s dead possibly by suicide. (I don’t know how much I can say about the circumstances and I don’t know all the details). It still hasn’t sunk in completely yet. I hoped that nobody in my year would die. I never expected it to be someone I knew.
(also posted on the random thread)
Oh. Oh my. So many squids. That’s awful.
I hope dearly that it wasn’t a suicide.
I hope you’re alright.
<3 Hugs.
I’m sorry, Enceladus.
Every death diminishes us. We will hold her in the light.
Sorry to go off-topic but…
Are you a Quaker? Just wondering.
We use the term “hold in the light” a lot.
Justice: No, although I went to a Quaker-influenced college (Swarthmore) and attended meetings there and at Pendle Hill.
I learned the phrase from Red-tailed HAWK’s mother on another sad occasion. I think it is a beautiful sentiment.
It saddens me to know that we’ll never get to meet Enceladus’s friend, or Adeliae’s classmate. Young people have so much to give the world, whether they realize it or not. I try to think of them in light, not darkness, as difficult as that can be at times like this.
Yes, it’s a lovely expression. I worked at a Quaker museum house, and many of our volunteers found the phrase meaningful and adapted it for themselves.
Perfectly said, Mr. Coontz.
I’m sorry. Many hugs.
I’m so sorry.
Give yourself time to process things. Give yourself space to feel whatever you feel. Please… take care of yourself.
*hugs*