WARNING! Will definitely contain spoilers!
To spare MBers reading the “Recent Comments” column, please paste the following message in at the beginning of your posts:
SPOILER OCTOBER MUSE SPOILER.
(That’s long enough. Remember to include the period, though, for the benefit of the sidebar.)
Great issue, I must say. Especially the caricatures.
First post?
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Finally, a themed issue! I missed those.
1- did you read the Muserology article?
My issue just came an hour ago. I liked the first page (i usually do) the caricature aricle is the best. I already have draw both canidates.
2-i didnt read muserology cockroaches aren’t my cup of tea
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3- you should read it! It’s not all about cockroaches. In fact, the overall topic isn’t about cockroaches — it’s about mold.
I tried to draw the caricatures, but failed miserably. I’ll have to give it some practice.
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May I offer my congratulations to whichever MBer wrote the Muserology Column. It was superb. I also enjoyed the “Dear Muse Reader” and the Rhetoric article.
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I thought it was pretty good, but a lot of the articles started dtrong but then I got bored. Especially the voting one. I liked the campign button rejects. My favorite article was probably the Muserology.
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This may be my favorite and my least favorite issue in a long time. It is my favorite because of the following things: first page, Bo’s Page, Koko & Company, Q&A, “Talk Like a Leader”, “The Locked Door”, Muserology, and the last page. I didn’t care for the voting article or the caricature article. Especially didn’t like the one-sided political commentary in the caricature one. The campaign button rejects were hilarious. My favorite was “Hubert Humphrey / Nice ‘n’ Comfy!” It was, however, also my least favorite issue because it crushed all my hopes and dreams and destroyed what I thought I knew Muse was. When, several months ago, EP promised a themed issue in October, I breathed a sigh of relief because the October issues have always been creepy and disgusting, and therefore my favorites. However, I was shocked, upon receiving my issue in the mail, to see that there was not even a hint of scariness. I noticed that Romana Prokipiw was gone this month, replaced by an Alice Letvin. Therefore I now see that RP was not the cause of the decadence of Muse after all. The common element seems to be EP herself. The excerpts, the new look, everything came when EP was hired. I haven’t seen an original article in months. Only excerpts. I am seriously considering canceling my subscription unless they bring back the old Muse. Here that, EP? Bring it back, or I’m boycotting. I know that it’s not entirely your fault, but you are the common factor. Oh, Muse. Quid fecit tibi?
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Oh, another thing. Koko grows and shrinks a lot in this issue. Compare his size on page 9 to his size on page 23. Sorry. Just a little thing I noticed.
Question: In the Bo’s Page Fact “Sweet Nothingness, Part II”, couldn’t one reason the people who wrote about a dentist visit didn’t eat as much was due to dentists?
GAPAs- post 8 here is spam. (“AlbertoWF”)
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Bookworm (5): Thanks! (I wrote the Muserology article). What was your favorite part?
Piggy (7): The excerpts are due to lack of money. They wish they didn’t have to publish excerpts, but they don’t really have any other choice. (There was a big discussion about it last thread, I think.)
10–Please, TMFA (and anyone else) post spoiler warnings! I’d rather not accidentally read about the October mag in the recent comments bar. Thank you!
WAS A LETTER FROM AN MBER POSTED??? BECAUSE I THINK VIXEN HAS A LETTER POSTED. SHE’S FROM DENMARK, CORRECT?
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Well. It was all right. I did like the return of the theme articles, but it’s not exactly what I expected when I thought “October Theme Article”.
I’ll post a longer review tomorrow, maybe. I have to get off right now, though.
12- Yes. Her letter was indeed posted. In it, she explains why Koko has to throw pies. It’s quite fascinating, actually. However, under her explanation, I would think he would be afraid of Crraw. Why did they move the second page of Muse Mail to the middle of the magazine? It’s so hard to find now.
BELATED REVIEW!
.
Cover: Nice caricature,but I didn’t like how the purple and red clashed.
Dear Muse Reader: Hilarious,especially the one about Ron Paul.
Bo’s Page: Yay! The facts stood on their own two feet- very random.
Muse mail: There were alot of interesting views about the reprints,although ,I would rather the two pages of fan mail be side-by-side.
Kokopelli & Company: Good, the punchline was clever and the comment about “jelly doughnuts” were- as teens would say “Tottally LOL”. Sadly it wasn’t the best.
Vote.com: It was interesting, but got boring near the end.
Q&A: This time around the facts didn’t interest me much.
Talk Like a Leader: I absolutely had no idea Bush spoke that way and the code words they talked about were interesting. Next time there’s a debate I’ll be looking out for code words.
The Locked Door: Very cool and refreshing from the Election articles. Maybe I’ll study subconscious activities *cough* brainwashing*cough*.
Muserlogy- My Growing Fascination: Awsome article Pan, it fit right in with October. My favorite part was explaining the finer points of the poor misunderstood mold and the way you put it in more of a story format was neat.
The Facial Detective: One of my favorites from the October Muse, I’ve gotten to work drawing the canidates, however I’m having trouble drawing McCain
.
Contest Winners: The one about Albert was my favorite
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Contest: Cool, I think I’ll enter.
Strangers Among Us: It would have been interesting had I not already heard about it on the news. The article was a bit difficult read because of the text color.
Over all: A great issue.
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10- The moldy cockroaches part!
SPOILER.
I JUST REALIZED PAN HAS AN ARTICLE IN THERE!!!! Good job Pan, I really liked it.
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7 – Hi, Piggy. EP here. I’m glad to hear that you found so much you liked in the October issue–and a little surprised that it simultaneously “crushed all your hopes and dreams.” I certainly do not intend to be in the business of hope- and dream-crushing.
Given that you enjoyed, by my math, a majority of the magazine, what was so upsetting? Was it just that the October issue had a theme that was not Halloween-related? (Although I, for one, have seen a lot of pretty scary things in current election coverage…)
Incidentally, you’re right that I started at MUSE just after some changes were made to the magazine, including the decision to use more excerpts. But I’ve been working to squeeze in some brand-new, written-for-MUSE articles, the first of which you’ll see in January.
Spoiler.
I liked how the cover was a spoof of the Time cover; I read Time too.
I actually really liked the theme. Sure, it wasn’t spooky, but I liked the fact that you tied it in to current events; I hadn’t seen that a lot in past issues and am pleased to see the editors have some sort of knowledge about the world around them.
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18- Well, it will be refreshing to see some new articles in Muse. Was that article about spices going to return? It seemed like it was going to, but it didn’t. I’m sorry if I offended you with my post. I had a terrible headache and felt extraordinarily irritable. And yes, the main reason for my disappointment was the non-scary issue, but I’ll guess I’ll just have to live. By the way, I want to scold whoever wrote the picture captions for the caricature article, because they were completely one-sided. I realize that we have freedom of the press, but I believe all views should be respected. By the way, is the bigger margin Muses a decision or did it just happen? I can’t decide whether I like it or not. Thank you very much for bringing back the old style or articles, e.g. lots of sidebars, divided sections for easier reading, etc. That makes me feel a lot better about Muse. By the way, can you give MuseBlog’s hearty congratulations to NaK (Nancy Kangas) for her marvelous Dear Muse Reader page? And your Last Page was sweet, too. Now that I’m feeling comparatively well, I see that this issue was pretty darn good. In fact, give everyone at the office some virtual pie. They deserve it.
Wow. I sound bipolar. *sobs* *punches desk* *laughs uncontrollably*
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I would give this issue 8 out of 10. Usually I’m not interested in politics, but I liked “Talk Like A Leader”, “The Facial Detective”, and “The Locked Door”. “Vote.com” was pretty boring, but 3 out of 4 isn’t bad for a magazine that lately has been going downhill. I also liked the Muserology (I did a science project on mold in third grade) and the contest winners (I’ve often wondered what dogs think of all that “My little gorgey schmootzy poo” stuff). Reading this issue, I felt like the old Muse was coming back. By the way, I wonder if either of the Museorology articles so far were written by MuseBloggers.
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This is the first issue I’ve really enjoyed reading since January.
Loved: Dear Muse Reader, Bo’s Page, Letters, Koko and Company, Vote.Com (I had been curious about the things covered in this article), Talk Like a Leader (This was really interesting!) The Locked Door, Muserology (although it was completely disgusting, in a good way), The Facial Detective, Strangers Among Us.
…Wait, that’s the whole magazine. Hooray! Hope the issues continue to be interesting.
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Rainbowstar (21): Yes, in fact–both Muserology articles so far were written by MuseBloggers. The September article was written by Luna the Lovely, and I wrote the October article.
What did you do for your science project? (I know it was about mold–but what exactly was the project?) It sounds really interesting!
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21 – They both have been, I believe. The first one was written by somebody (Luna, I think?) and the latest one by Pan.
GAPAs- Post 25 by “zodiaclove” appears to be spam. (At least, the name is linked to a “love calculator.”) I don’t think I’ve ever seen spam on the blog before, and now it’s appeared twice on the same thread. *ponders*
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I would really love to eat the “Synsepalum dulciferum.” It sounds so cool! Has anyone tried it before?
25- What?
26- Well, post 25 *was* spam, until (I’m assuming) the GAPAs deleted it, then my post became the new 25. I’m pretty sure that’s what happened.
27- That’s what I thought, but I wasn’t sure. That post was weird.
(25-28) I didn’t see that one, but we get some very weird spam indeed. New fashion lines arrive periodically.
23- For my science project, I put three bread rolls (homemade, because store-bought ones might have preservatives in them) in three jars. One had dirt covering the bottom. So did the second one, except that the dirt had been boiled to kill bacteria. The third roll was in a jar all by itself. All three grew patches of a fuzzy light gray mold, but the one with regular dirt started to grow mold first, then the one with boiled dirt, and finally the one all by itself. My teacher thought it was creative and connected to the short story we had read shortly before, about the invention of pasteurization. Everyone else just thought it was disgusting.
October MUSE spoilers!.
I just got it! I do like the return of a themed issue, but like Meow, it’s not quite what I would have expected. The actual topic/theme was simply lovely, but I don’t think I would have realized it was a themed issue if I hadn’t been told so beforehand.
The only example/reason I can explain with is the LOTR issue, from way back when. (mind you, this is pulling back from the dark deep recesses from my memory, as I haven’t been able to get my hands on a copy of the darned thing since about three years ago…) From what I remember (which is not much), it consisted of some normal-styled LOTR articles, but then there were some elvish translation-things, and… other such things, written specifically for MUSE. I think that is what’s missing the most from the more recent issues- not major excerpts or anything, just those quirky little fun bits, taking up a page or so, and following/pertaining to one of the more heavy-duty articles. That and the interesting side notes/explanations/ in the margins. Where have they gone?
Which is just repeating other people’s already stated complaints, isn’t it. -.-
Nevertheless, I kind of strayed from the main point- the issue was very nice. All of the articles were very interesting and varied while still on the same base topic. I found it particularly interesting that New York was the only state using the gear/lever voting system… those are the only kind I’ve ever seen in use- I thought most people used them!
Oh, and I guessed that the Muserology article was Pan’s- I caught the little “museblogger” part of the decribe-the-author snippet, and Pan’s the only Clara I know of on the blog.
Great job!!! An article worthy of three exclamation points.
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Cover: Looks like Muse went for a Time look! Very nice!
Dear Muse Reader: Nak always does a flamablamablous job. The Clinton one was hilarious. WJB lost to McKinley. Again.
Bo’s Page: Awesome as ever! Except some of the facts were kinda real easy to guess as true (Stonehenge and Good News for Nicotine Addicted Shar-Peis).
Muse mail: I would also rather the two pages of fanmail be side by side. And I entirely disagree about the repeat of articles. I mean, it would be cool for the newbies, but do I really want to see “The Roswell UFO Hoax” AGAIN? I mean it was awesome, but I already have the issue, and I can go back to it whenever I want. AGAIN, if someone was only ordering it for like a year or something it would be cool, but still.
Kokopelli & Company: Not the best. Not one of the best. O.K. Hilarious though. Feather rocks. Love jelly donuts. *sigh*
Vote.com: Wait, what was that ab– OH! That one. Yeah… Kinda boring. A tiny interesting.
Q&A: Um, were these questions asked by 3rd graders (no offense to anyone)? When can we get some interesting questions? Like ‘Why does the sun lighten our hair, but darken our skin?’, ‘If you were driving a car at the speed of light, what would happen if you turned on the headlights?’ ‘Why did John Lennon have to die?’ (sorry, I couldn’t resist).
Talk Like a Leader: Hehe. I still don’t think Bush is all that smart. Interesting though. I especially liked “Do these make me look fat?”
The Locked Door: Yes! A GOOD ARTICLE! FINALLY. Very interesting! An interesting way to look at things. Kind of like that fact on Bo’s page… *coughcoughbrainwashingcoughcough*
Muserlogy- An interesting subject, Pan! I never knew you had pet cockroaches. When I first glanced at the page I saw the picture and I was like “Woah. What in the world is that?” After that I tried to figure out which thing was what food.
The Facial Detective: McCain looks plain creepy. Obama looks kinda creepy too. Real funny, great work!
Contest Winners: Ok. Albert was probably the best though. Pink poodle, afro!
Contest: I’m a terrible artist. Noooooo thankyou.
Strangers Among Us: Interesting. Hmm. Adds on to my bajillion reasons to save the rainforests.
Over all: Better than before! My favorite would be Muserology, and The Locked Door. But I think Muserology shouldn’t be called that…
YAY!!!
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Cover: Great look! Classy, yet humorous!
Dear Muse Reader: Hilarious. “Nice ‘n’ Comfy!”
Bo’s Page: Good job, but I knew about the Stonehenge.
Muse mail: Okay, but either put two pages side-by-side or don’t spread one letter across the magazine. It’s annoying.
Koko & co.: I loved it, because, personally, a jelly donut would be a better president than either candidate.
Vote.com: Interesting, but I had read part of it in the Caltech magazine. (my dad is an alumni)
Q&A: No offense to anyone, but those are the kind of questions you would ask a parent of a teacher, not a magazine.
Talk Like a Leader: Interesting, I’ve gotta try doing that.
The Locked Door: Good article, though it really didn’t fit. But still really good. I’ve gotta try that too.
Muserology: Nice, Pan! I see why yours got picked!
The Facial Detective: I love caricatures and political comics, so GREAT!
Contest Winners: Okay. I think we all agree that Albert “won.”
Contest: I’m entering. But I might need to practice my art a bit.
Strangers Among Us: Good, but for some reason the last page tends to be about stuff I’ve already heard of.
Overall: Great Muse, though still not as good as some of the older ones. But it’s coming back.
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I hope Aeiou doesn’t act on her wish to move to Estonia. We’d all miss her so dearly!
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32- one was by a 6 year old. so, let’s see:
I was 5 in kindergarten. Most people were 6. thusly, first or second grade.
And we did have something about headlights and speed of light.
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32 – I agree with one part of that: that Muse has sort of been lacking “quirky fun stuff”. It’s almost like it’s trying too hard to be funny and cute and witty that it comes across as…just a little weird.
Has anyone noticed that they’re publishing more letters and stuff by people around my age? It just feels a bit, too… weird kinda. There used to be much more letters and contest winners that were around 13.
(37) Wider margins, bigger Muses, shorter articles, younger Muse Mail letter writers — I’d say Muse is deliberately trying to appeal to younger readers.
38- But that’s awful!
…And yet it makes sense. It explains why I feel like I’m getting too old for it but still manage to enjoy the old issues.
Oh, Muse! The trouble with aiming at a lower age range is that no one wants to read down, but people are perfectly willing to read up. So they’re probably going to lose a lot of their older readers (I know they’ve lost me, even if my subscription lasts till the middle of my junior year). It happened to Cricket, too, I think. Well, actually, that might be a matter of personal opinion. I don’t think the age of Cricket readers changed much, but I’m not interested in the new stories even though I love the old ones.
39- This is the exact obosite of the Cricket thing. You out grew cricket. Muse is sliding it self down.
Why, Really, IS it doing this?
I revise my commentary. This issue has been one of my favorites as of yet. All of the articles were incredibly interesting, and I loved the letters and Muserology article (kudos to Pan).
41- I KNEW it was Pan! I just wasn’t sure….
40- Well, it’s partly that I outgrew Cricket, but not entirely. Cricket used to be all about fairy tales and legends retold, and Trina Schart Hyman (Hart Schyman? I seem to have forgotten…) did the comic strips and it just felt more valuable, y’know? Now it seems like it has a lot less…something. It’s cheaper, newer, with glossy pages and brightly colored pictures. My favorite story ever was “Penny Candy”, illustrated by Edward Gorey. I understand that Edward Gorey’s dead and all, but…yeah.
I think it’s true, though, I outgrew Cricket. But not Muse. Or did I? I don’t know. But it used to be so funny and now it’s…not. No more witty captions and fascinating articles. No more Math Page. I don’t even look forward to Muse anymore, though I hate to say it.
43- Maybe it’s just because you’re getting older. Those articles that you and I and other avid Muse-readers found interesting and witty may just be boring to people who were older than us at the time. I hate to say i, ut at some point everyone outgrows childhood. I still look forward to my Muse every month, but I have to say I’ve stopped waiting at my mailbox when the first week of the month comes around, like I used to do sometimes.
Also, I see what you mean. I liked the math page, and the new Muse is just a bit too…well, gaudy and inauthentic to me. I can only really imagine Muse as it was set up in 2004 and 2005, wih semi-gloss and funny, interesting articles. I have to say, I’d rather learn about scary stuff in October than the Presidential election, which I already know about. Instead, maybe that could have been the November issue. I like learning about Halloweeny stuff in the October issue. This was a little bit of a letdown for me. But, Muse, I still love you, even though you’re not at my level of reading anymore.
Muse probably wants to appeal to younger readers because they’ll probably have more subscriptions that way. Usually grandparents (or parents) get the magazines for the kids. Younger kids aren’t as critical of magazines, and are less likely to ask the grand/parent to cancel the subscription because they don’t like it.
43- You didn’t. I’m 13, I’ve gotten it for the past two years. your olded, and got it for much longer. And both of us are upset with the new muse.
Bookworm, are you sure you sent the subscription in?
Muse is supposed to make you feel smart. The way they’re making the mag now makes me feel less intelligent. Muse was always fine the way it was. Why would they change it? Robert, you’re MB’s voice on the Board of Advisors. Please continue fighting for us. I know that, without you, Muse would by now be a terrible magazine designed for 4 year olds. Please let them know that the original format of Muse was and is the most popular style. I know I’m not growing out of it because I read past issues and love them just as much as I had the first time. Therefore it must be Muse that’s being babified. Well, that was my rant for the day. See you all later.
48–I completely agree. We ahve not grown out of it. The old issues are still omg awesome, the new issues are…..not so awesome. At all. they talk down, they lack the funny little captions and comments. And I remember when EP first emailed me telling me my eagle article was going to be in Muse, she told me that she ahd edited it, especially the section on thermoregulation, because it needed to be at a level that kids could understand…..and, admittedly, it was kind of confuzzling in that section, butnot because it was above level, just because it was rambling, because I originally just sent an email, not expecting it to be turned into an article. So, it was kind of like, woah, babyfying my article? Whyever for?
45 – But, at the same time, they’re losing some of their longest readers: us. My gut feeling wants this to be a case of quality over quantity, with us being the quality members that send in the letters, send in the contest submissions, and blog 27/7. But my brain responds that more subscriptions = more money. And that makes me sad.
I miss the old Muse.
50–i miss it too…..
I love the old issues, but I agree, Muse has been slipping. It flopped with that bridge issue (which I found very uninteresting and hardly touched) but that latest issue was very interesting! I loved it!
I like learning about Halloween stuff in the October issue. That should have been in this issue, and the Election could have been bumped to the November issue. This issue could have been about the world’s scariest haunted houses or something. Now THAT would have been a great read.
We must save Muse! If Muse continues to go downhill, I’ll switch to Mental Floss, which is more of an adult magazine, but the same idea as the old Muse and currently a more interesting magazine. I miss Muse!
If the election was bumped to the November issue, it would be after-the-fact. Many people don’t get their magazines until well into the month, and the elections are at the very beginning of November. October is the perfect time for the election articles.
I do like Halloween-type articles in October, but I do like the variety. Don’t you think it would get tiring if every October was about Halloween, every February was about Valentine’s Day, etcetcetc.? I know I would.
Hi, it’s me again. For the record, MUSE is not trying to appeal to younger readers than before.
Don’t panic.
56 – Perhaps since everyone is getting older, it creates the illusion that it is targeting younger kids than before. Because it is, kinda.
Hey, it’s a theory.
I honestly really liked this issue. I liked the Muserology especially (do I have a choice? Sorry, just kidding, Clara, I love you and your article).
I liked this article more than any of the other articles published in the last six months, but I definitely agree that there’s something……..lacking in the issues lately. This one was about as good as a bad issue from three years ago. Not that they had bad issues three years ago…….
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38~ It seems that way. ADn it’s way too bad, since I think andy sensible younger child would be perfectly able to read and understand longer, more in depth articles. When I was younger I loved long articles and books (provided they were worth reading, that is), I still do. I think Muse is shooting itself in the foot if they think that dumbing themselves down will appeal to more readers; if I wanted stupid (not simple-simple but well written is very different than stupid) writing and mere sound bytes of information I would subscribe to any other magazine, but I don’t want that, and that’s why I love Muse. Because they have (or had) very well written, clear, informative articles that were unusual, interesting, and humorous enought to be entertaining, but scholarly and knowledgeable at the same time. The humor wasn’t the substance, with some information on the sides. And it was effective! Much more effective than the substance lacking “funny” pulp that is being printed now, it seems.
That said, Pan, nice article, I enjoyed it very much.
The other articles were alright, I haven’t finished the one on voting through the internet yet. The one on Pres. G.W. Bush’s speaking style was a bit annoying, although somewhat amusing.
The one on caricatures was nice, interesting and unexpected. the one on “priming” was fascinating, to me at least. Probably my favorite in awhile, but then, Malcom Gladwell is a good author, I have to get some of his books sometime.
So, good job, I suppose, although I too was disappointed that the October issue didn’t have any “spooky” articles. Although I’m not a thrill seeker, I always enjoyed the informative and interesting (and creepy) October issues, one of my favorites was the one with the gravestones on the cover–I believe it had an article on the origin and symbolism of the carvings found on old gravestones. Very interesting, with the historical referances (you knew it’d come in somehow!) and the pictures, the writing style was very good as well, if I’m remembering the correct one.
Wasn’t the Tower of London article by our own dear PB&J in an Oct. issue sometime ago? Perhaps I’m confused.
In any case, I enjoyed the spooky-ish, but mostly just interesting articles that used to be in the Oct. issues, and hope that next year will return to them.
Perhaps leave the other months for articles on current events, or tie them into the October theme? Just my thoughts.
Also, as far as appealing to younger readers, I think that the new Muse website is a little bit over done. It seems a bit too “cutesy” and not really as informative as I’d expect it to be.
58- I agree.
Around the time the magazine got smaller, it started declining.
I started getting muse on the tenth anniversary of the magazine.
So, I haven’t really gotten a chance to read the muse that everyone used to love.
A friend of mine got me into it. He showed me the issue with the thing about cosplaying, and I just got into it.
When I look back at the first few issues I got, even the articles I’ve read a hundred times are interesting.
I might cancel my subscription now if it wasn’t for a few good articles (there’s usually one in every issue, mostly)
Also, does anyone know where I can get back issues?
EP- Please try to understand it. Readers are always willing to read up (i.e. read articles which are a bit too difficult for them), but they will not read down (i.e. read most of the articles which are currently being written). Shrink the margin Muses, try to find room in the budget for articles actually written for Muse (I know, it’s shocking), and focus on content, not presentation. No offense to Mr. Sandford, but I find the new artsy style very distracting and, I don’t know, not cheap, per say, but a bit… con-artisty. Like you’re trying to hide the fact that the magazine is slipping. I can’t speak for all MBers, but I for one would be fine if you spent less money on design and more on writing articles. I realize that there’s a lot of new staff, so you guys have to learn the traditions of Muse. Maybe some mini-myths or fake web pages. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, do some research. Now I do appreciate the fact that you’ve listened to MuseBlog and put in sidebars, divided articles, changed Bo’s Page to facts which can stand by themselves, &c. But there’s still a lot to change. Not change, actually. Unchange. Either put the second mail page at the back or, my personal favorite, put both pages next to each other, preferably at one end or the other. And the margin Muses. Is Muse just trying to fill space? Can you really not find any short articles, one-pagers, to add if you’re a bit short? Or convince Ivars to come back! I really don’t care how freakin’ busy he is, I need my Math Page! I realise that you can’t make him come back, but one-page articles were often my favorites. They could be serious or humorous, or a bit of both. Just make sure that Muse isn’t a kiddie magazine which focuses on equal amounts of humour and learning. How will kids learn if they don’t learn how to read more difficult material? The whole reason I fell in love with the old Muse was because it actually made me think. And everyone knows it’s changing. You deny it, but you know it’s true.
Oops. On 61 just the two “Muse”s were supposed to be italicized, not that whole section. I give up a half pound of choklit to recompense for my mistake.
[Choklit accepted. —HTML gnome]
56- I’m not whether to be relieved or horrified. On the one hand, there may be hope if it’s not intentional. On the other hand, if you’re dumbing down the magazine without trying…that’s scary.
61- Or get to work on the PB&J Coloum!
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I thought that this month’s issue was really good. The only thing that I don’t get is how that new kind of pointe shoe they talked about om Bo’s Page works. I’m a dancer so I’m kinda skeptical that somthing like that would work because the time when you wold like it to be soft is when your up on it not when your just walking around so it sounds to me that it wouild act pretty much like a conventional one would.
64- The what now?
Thanks for accepting my offering, Gnomey. I’m a bit of a perfectionist. Is there some way MB could make a “preview” button to see your post before you post it? That would be useful, but I don’t know if it’s possible. Wait, you deleted a bunch of my post. Was that intentional? I think you deleted the part which had come after the accidentally italicized section. Dangit!
[Oops! Sorry. –H.Gn.]
Well, to finish my rant…
…You deny it but you know it’s true. Muse isn’t the same as it used to be. Many of my old issues, especially the 2005-2006-era ones, can be reread dozens of times but each time they make me think and ponder what I’m reading. I find the humour funny and the commentary witty, and most of the articles are fascinating. Especially the October issues. The 2004 and 2005 October issues are my all-time favorites because they’ve got character. Nowadays Muse just doesn’t have any character. There’s no inside jokes or anything. It seems to me that Muse is just trying to get new readers instead of keep its old ones. Its new style seems flashy and attention-getting, quite unlike the old mag in which content, not looks, counted. It seems that Muse is pulling a new Coke on us (read the article if you don’t know what that means). Well, then, I’ll give Muse until my next birthday, April of next year, to gain my trust. If it fails, I’m canceling my subscription. I feel that the Dr. Jekyll known as the old Muse has through some potion by the name of staff change has turned into a cheap and condescending Mr. Hyde called the new Muse. I’m going to have to keep my old issues as well preserved as South American mummies (again, read the article!). No one’s going to get through my stack and counterstack my hoard (article). Another question. Where’s Paul? Was he fired? I haven’t seen him in the mag or on the ‘Blog for ages. I, at the beginning of his absence, was told that he was entering his busy season with his shawm band, but that busy season seems to have become a busy year. I’m sorry if I’m seeming mean, but you can’t just come in here and completely redo Muse. You’ve got till April. [/end rant]
I agree, but I am going to keep with Muse till I’m older. I liked muse before it started being more, well I don’t know, but I do know I liked the old Muse better.
Good input, readers.
Let me get this straight: you want more adult articles. (scribbles in notebook)And, you want some good scary Halloween-ey stuff, oooh, yeah. (scribbling in notebook) I guess the election articles weren’t scary or adult enough.
Okay, thanks.
• I can assure you that MUSE, like many things in life, will change.
• Another thing to be sure of is that in any endeavor, there’s no way to please everyone. Dang.
So, I do my best to do my duty. For me that means finding new ways to express ideas and tell stories. I don’t want to become an homage to another era or sensibility. Please note that I made fonts smaller across the board, so they are less li’l kidlike and we can have more info on a page. I removed previous framing across the board as unnecessary and intrusive, and lots of other things – it’s just nuts and bolts.
If you were to try to please everyone, you’d be jumping all over, a rag doll jerked around by countless hands.We all must make our best decisions and move forward. You all are entitled to your opinions, and they are well stated. Hey – I have opinions too. I need to keep my vision and focus for the whole.
Thank you prostrudely,
Mr. S
68- It’s not that we want more adult articles, really, or at least that’s not how I see it. The subject matter is fine, it’s just that the articles themselves aren’t very in-depth, y’know? I mean, there’s the occasional boring article, but the old Muse had boring articles too sometimes (personally, I found it nearly impossible to get through the Snowball Earth article).
Out of the recent subjects, not one of them was unworthy of Muse. They were just poorly presented. The best article I’ve read out of Muse in the past year or so was the cooking one, and that was taken from another magazine. I heartily disapprove of taking articles from other magazines, but I understand that financially it’s a lot easier to get stuff that’s already been written. If you’re not going to get much original writing, then PLEASE, I beseech you, use articles, not book excerpts!
68–Mr. Sandford: I understand where you are coming from with your comments, but if you are trying to win us over to your point of view, I think you are going about it wrong. When I read your post, it comes across as very patronizing, insulting, and condescending. Mayhap you didn’t mean it that way, and mayhap I’m just feeling overly sensitive right now–college can be very stressful, especially right after you learn you got a B on one of your tests–but that is how I interpret your post.
Also, you’re right–there is no way to please everybody. However, I think most MuseBloggers–some of your most devoted and involved readers–all have a similar idea of what we–and other Muse readers–want from the magazine. And we’re just not getting it anymore.
To be completely honest, I think if Muse magazine does not want to lose some of its most devoted readers, some significant changes need to be made. What, specifically, I can’t really say. But I think most readers are in agreement that the magazine has lost something within the past year or two.
61- I agree! Ivars must return!!!
And the new style is weird.
I also want the second mail page back!
I might actually get one of my letters into the magazine.
Also, Robert Coontz and (I can’t spell her first name) Spector need to go back to the Q&A section!
It just isn’t Q&A without them.
Muse has until my current subscription expires, if it has redeemed itself, then I will renew my subscription. Otherwise, goodbye muse, hello [some other magazine]
71 – Well if you read the Q&A explanation thingy thread, you’ll find that Robert was doing his best to be diplomatic by mentioning that this way, he’d theoretically have more time to be a GAPA.
I feel really horrible saying these things, though, because I keep thinking of the target age group (which has always been so, I think) for Muse.
I agree with the lovely Luna. And, Mr. Sandford, why are you assuring us that Muse will change? It already has, and many of us hate it. Those of us here on MuseBlog are Muse‘s most devoted readers, and we speak for many more silent fans of the magazine when we say we want the old Muse back. I find it worrying for the staff at Muse when they have to send editors and art directors alike to try to talk us out of
revoltprotest. Please, just listen to us. I thank you for feebly trying to stick more information in the articles, but it’s not more information that we want. We want better information. More in-depth and thought-provoking information. I’m sure that, if and when Muse has some original articles again, things will be a bit better, but I think you’re afraid of losing younger readers by being too difficult. I’m sorry, but you’re just plain wrong in that thought. Everyone loves to read up, and everyone hates to read down. Many of the articles in past issues which I have always loved I have just begun to understand entirely. And that’s why I love them. Unfortunately, those were years ago. The new style of Muse in itself is great, but it’s taking away a more important element of Muse. I’m sorry, but you’re no Karen Kohn. I know you’re all working very hard, but I think your work would be rewarded more if you did what your readers want. I will soon be compiling some of the more compelling posts on this thread and sending them to Muse to, most likely, line the FMP. Then I’ll send it again and again until you break down, publish my letter, and cause more readers to tell you what they think Muse should be. Your recent poll on what people thought of repeat articles is very telling. Many people want old articles to be reprinted because the recent articles stink. That’s my opinion, anyway. The only part of Muse that really hasn’t changed too much is Larry Gonick’s work. However, the margin Muses are supposed to be on the side, something extra. Please don’t make them so big. It cancels out your “smaller font” thing. And please don’t talk to us like that again. We’re not 6-year olds. Some of us are college-age. Not me personally. I’m a sophomore in high school, but I’m closer to college than kindergarten. I couldn’t tell if you thought we were stupid or if you were just poring over your thesaurus trying to make yourself seem smarter. I don’t like arguing with the Editors, but we want our Muse back. Good day to you, sir.Piggy, you’re the greatest. I nominate you the leader of this
revoltprotest. You managed to put into words everything I was feeling, and much better than I could have done. When you compile some of the more compelling posts on this thread, do me a huge favor and post your compilation, and I will copy it over to my email and send it to Muse everyday until they publish it. I don’t have time to compile it myself, or I would–but I do easily have time to hit the send button in my email one extra time a day. I will help flood their mail box until they have no choice but to respond.And like Piggy said, and I said, Mr. Sanford–don’t talk down to us. We’re not stupid. Some of us are younger Muse readers, true. But even the 10 year olds who frequent this blog are very mature and intelligent for their age. They don’t need to be spoken to like little children anymore than the college aged Muse readers–of which I am one.
Also, I don’t like arguing with any of you either–I prefer to avoid conflict. But when I feel strongly about something, such as the way Muse is deteriorating, I will take action–even if it means making me the bad guy by ceaselessly pestering people. I don’t want to have to do this, partly because I feel guilty harassing the people who just published my article (that eagle article, Mr. Sanford, was mine) and partly because I rather find myself liking Elizabeth after my correspondence with her over the summer. She seems like a really nice person. However, somebody needs to do something if Muse is going to be prevented from deteriorating into just another “dumb-down-the-populace” magazine.
MuseBloggers, I beseech you–join together and follow Piggy
to battlein protest.73, 74 – Exactly. Precisely. Thank you.
I’ve been noticing the changes in Muse for a while, and I haven’t liked it. While getting a new issue of Muse used to be the highlight of my day, the past few issues I’ve actually put off reading the magazine. Why? Because I’m worried that the caliber of the magazine won’t meet my expectations–which it hasn’t. While this last issue was a definite improvement over the ‘New Muse’, it feels like the editors are just trying to imitate the old Muse. Actually, the analogy to the New Coke article is rather fitting. Think about it–the editors have a great magazine that everyone loves: Muse. However, for some reason they decide that it’s not, in fact, what the general populace wants, so they ‘sweeten it’ or dumb it down. The original Muse lovers notice the change right away and want their old magazine back. This is where we are right now. It seems the October issue is the beginning of an attempt to turn New Muse back into Classic Muse.
On the bottom shelf of my bookcase, I have all the issues of Muse I’ve received in chronological order. They begin with November/December 2004, and end with this month’s October 2008–four solid years of Muse history. I have the magazines separated into two magazine holders, two years to a holder. Looking at them, the first thing I notice is how much more crammed the 2004-2006 holder is than the 2006-2008 one. The exact month of the shortened magazines is very clearly visible–April 2007. Does anyone remember the title of the New Coke article? I do. It’s “The New Coke Disaster.”
Studying these copies of Muse, I notice some other patterns. The number of themed issues has declined over time. The cover art has gotten more comic-esque. The contests have gotten more like those in Cricket. There are less interesting inserts in articles, and the formatting of the magazine have begun to look more and more like “insert-your-text-here” templates. In fact, the only noticeable improvement is the Muserology articles.
I know I’m not outgrowing Muse because the old magazines are still every bit as interesting–maybe even more so. I spent all morning rereading my back issues. The original Muse back issues.
“Marketers like market research because it provides certainty–a score, a prediction; if someone asks marketers why they made the decision they did, they can point to a number. But the truth is they often don’t know what that number really means.”
75–wow. I like the analogy. You should totally copy that into an email and send it in. If they threw such a well written persuasive argument into the FMP then, well, the magazine’s a lot farther gone than I thought.
76- The analogy’s actually mine, but tesseract did a much better job explaining it than I. In fact, I didn’t even attempt to elaborate on it. And I thank all of you for picking me as your leader. In the spirit of Benjamin Franklin, I will acquiesce. I will hopefully have the compilation done in a few days. Probably not today, but soon. To
warcivil protest!77–My apologies, Piggy. I probably didn’t read the post in which you used the analogy–I have, for the most part, been trying to avoid this thread, as I still don’t have my October Muse. With any luck, it may have arrived back home in Alaska, in time to be sent in the package with the pumpkin carving stuff my mom is sending…..
Wow, it sounds like Muse used to be a lot better. I haven’t been getting it for long, so I wouldn’t know how good the old Muses were. Maybe I’ll raid MissSwann’s old Muses….
MuseBloggers: We know this post looks long, but we urge those concerned with the state of the magazine to read the entire thing.
For the past few days, we have been reading the attacks at our beloved magazine and its staff. Many of these arguments were addressed on the last thread, and most everyone is only repeating what others have said.
Please consider the fact that all print media is suffering financially. Newspapers and magazines are losing to the internet and more rapid forms of communicating information. The staff of Muse are clearly trying as hard as they can to print what its readers desire with this small budget.
You say that people like Mr. Sandford shouldn’t be “talking down” to us, but he came down here to find out what we wanted in the first place. Muse‘s staff has never been so active on the blog as they are now. We think Mr. Sandford and EP are coming here to genuinely try to make the magazine better. We don’t see any of this “patronizing, insulting, and condescending” tone in their posts (Luna post 70). They are just trying to let us know that they care and what, specifically they are trying to do with the magazine.
What do you think the war/protest/revolt will accomplish in bringing back your “Old Muse”? Sending emails, bombarding the poor staff with threats and complaints will only exacerbate the issue and take up their time. (Which, may we add, could be spent on the magazine you are complaining about.) Trying to force the magazine to publish a complaint in any form is unnecessary in our opinion, but doing so via the annoyance factor is ridiculous. If other Muse readers have opinions and want to share them, there are many ways for them to do so. The new website, for example, is a great way for all readers to express their opinions.
We cannot stress this enough — the constant complaints and repetition of the non-constructive criticism are not doing anything to help the magazine.
We apologize for the repetition in this post. We’re trying to remain as objective as possible. More later.
–Purple Panda and Taiwan Hippo Fan
I haven’t been here for a while, so I don’t know exactly how or when this whole “MB revolts omg!1!!1” thing started, and I don’t have the time to go back through the website and figure it out (PSA: college essays are killer, folks. Who knew 500 words could take so long to write?). Forgive me if I’m way off topic or addressing points people have made before.
I first started reading Muse in 2000 or 2001, I believe (my first issue was the one with Kokopelli in beads on the cover). I have been printed in it twice: once, a letter which I had sent to the Gaboomba, and once a question that was answered. I’ve bought back-issues off of eBay and posted here for something like five years. When I began reading Muse, I was 9 or 10; I’m now 17, and I didn’t renew my subscription when it ran out a few months ago. Let me explain why.
When I began reading Muse, one of the main things that drew me to the magazine was its in-depth articles that were about quirky subjects or looked at something in an unusual way. Key word: in-depth. I loved the articles about priest holes and rube goldberg machines, the gargoyle / grotesque article, the “was napolean killed by wallpaper” one, tenrecs, optical illusions, Nigel Molesworth (I think that’s his name?) and so on and so forth. All of these articles were fascinating to read, gave me a new way of looking at the world or something to think about or both. Why? Partly because they didn’t try to dumb down anything, or be “age appropriate.” While the authors may have been writing for children, their definition of “child” did not include “needs to be talked down to.”
I’m not sure when that started changing; I remember an article about kudzu that seemed like it ended unfinished and was written by someone in a hurry to do Something More Important, an article about Google that read like advertising and inexplicably failed to mention any of the controversy surrounding Google’s storage of private data, and a series of issues containing reprinted articles; what, Muse had already covered everything there was to talk about?
Don’t get me wrong; the magazine in the old days wasn’t perfect, the magazine now has some great articles, and part of this change is probably due to my maturing. But it seems that recently (or, at least, when I stopped receiving issues) the ratio of the bland and simplified to the wacky, complex, or unusual has increased dramatically. I loved Muse and cherished the community I found around it; I still enjoy talking with some of my fellow Musers and reading old issues. Please, don’t let Muse turn into Highlights for pre-teens. Don’t let the “focus on the whole” erase the individual bits that made the magazine exceptional, a true font of knowledge for the inquiring mind. The issues I remember the most clearly are the ones where the articles weren’t copies of what I could find out by reading Wikipedia; they are the ones that went the extra step to truly show us the wonders in human nature and the world (some of which, by the way, scared the bajeebers out of me. I think I’ve had nightmares about the doll-house-murders last page).
I doubt I’ve said anything anyone hasn’t heard before; I just hope that, for the sake of the twelve-year-old in me, the New Muse can remain as awesome and unpredictable as it was before. Thanks for listening, remain mostly harmless, etc.
Basically, what I’m trying to say, I think, is: specificity is good. Don’t just print articles about the Life of Napolean, print articles about how the color of his wallpaper may have killed him. Talking about religious intolerance quickly can become oversimplified and preachy; talking about priest holes is pure awesomeness.
And to add to my “zomg Muser devotion” paragraph, I am also the proud owner of a copy of Kokopelli and the Attack of the Smart Pies.
GAPAs- I now post the letter to the editors of Muse. If it is too long, please ask me to send it to you and let you post it on a separate and new thread. Otherwise here it is. (Anyone- Please point out mistakes and offer improvements. This is in no way set in stone.)
[Because of the length, I have copied the text into a Google document. –Rebecca].
83- Signing.
The Man For Aeiou, Reader for 4 years, Subscriber for 3
I agree that sending complaint letters to the editors and organizing protests isn’t exactly the best way to go about this. We need to convince them that they want to [i]keep[/i] us as readers, not scare them away.
Pan and THF- I’m sort of with you guys, and sort of not. On the one hand, I agree that the editors are trying. I mean, they come on MB to see what we want, and they did concoct a themed issue. Plus there’s Muserology, which is both a cheap and appealing solution to the lack of original articles, and there was that one article from a magazine instead of a book. And Mr. Sanders made the font smaller to match the magazine, which I appreciate. Sending in long complain-y letters isn’t entirely fair, and, what bothers me more, it’s redundant.
On the other hand, I disagree with the statement that we’re giving “non-constructive criticism.” It’s hard to sum up exactly what went wrong, but I think we’re doing a pretty good job with it. More detailed articles, fewer book excerpts, the return of the good old Muse humor (sure, this last one is hard to explain, and I don’t think anyone really expects it to return, but it’s worth mentioning).
Maybe we should just accept that Muse isn’t as intelligent or appealing as it once was, and leave it at that. So it appeals to a younger age group. I wish them the joy of it. I’m not going to cancel my subscription, and even though I won’t renew it, the truth is I probably wouldn’t have renewed it anyway, y’know? I didn’t have it renewed the first time it ran out, did I?
P.S. Yes, the criticism is repetitive, but that’s just the way things are. Until we feel like what we have to say has been acknowledged, either in a “OK, we’ll change it”, a “look, here’s how we’ll compromise” or a “just live with it” manner, we’re going to keep saying it.
(83) Piggy, in your original document you will need to restore the strikeouts. They must have gotten lost in the copy and paste.
And I hope this won’t sound like I’m intruding where I don’t belong, but may I make a suggestion? In order to make your presentation more focused and more truly representative of MuseBloggers, I would cut out all references to staff personnel and delete the comments by adults (I’m not sure their words could be printed without their permission, anyway). Not incidentally, such an approach might also give your letter a better chance of staying out of the FMP.
When people feel put on the defensive, everything else you say is filtered through that lens. Their minds will be busy marshaling their justifications instead of listening to your words. Especially when you’re trying to get someone to listen to something they’d rather not hear, you’ve a better chance of getting through the barricades by working with human nature rather than against it.
You’ll have to do some skillful editing to remove some of the references, but I believe it would sharpen your letter considerably. Some excisions for sake of length might be in order as well. If I were writing such a letter, I’d excerpt only the main points from each MuseBlogger.
Whenever I write something of this nature, I always ask myself what it is I want to accomplish. Do I want to persuade the recipient to see my point of view? Do I hope en will take action of some sort? Or do I just want to sound off? Once I know my answer, editing decisions are much easier to make.
83 – Signed.
Signing:
Rainbowstar
Reader for almost 2 years
Subscriber for about 1 1/2 years
I think Rebecca has some valid points. Don’t get me wrong, I think your compilation is excellent–but I do know that people, when they feel like they are be attacked directly, will go on the offensive and just block out everything you have to say, no matter how well written or legitimate it might me.
Add me to your signing (had to go to Muse fanpage to figure out when I started getting issues–2001–and realized I desperately need to get my hands on back issues, cuz there are some articles that look incredibly fascinating. I also saw a lot of articles in the early issues that looked familiar…..sure enough, the were “recently” republished (damascus sword, guardrails…..)):
Luna the Lovely, reader for 8 years
I’m not sure how I feel about being included in this letter. Who is it being sent to and why is it being sent?
Oh right. Sign me as reader for 4 years, please.
If you do end up rewriting the letter as per Rebecca’s suggestion, could you post the final version here before you send it so the rest of us can read it first? Thanks.
68- Haunted houses. DON’T FORGET the haunted houses. The scarier, the better. (More later, time for church).
can i just say that i’m really really glad that it was Muse changing, and not me.
my subscription ran out a while ago, and i only noticed this month. When i first started subscribing, i was convinced i would be reading muse well into college. my parents would ask “haven’t you outgrown that yet?” but then they would steal my magazines when i wasn’t looking.
i haven’t read the most recent issues, obviously, but i do remember the changes in the magazine. i didn’t like them.
i haven’t really wanted to say anything on here, in case it was just me…but i will definitely sign the letter.
Ebeth
Reader/Subscriber for 6 years
I’ll send my revised version to the GAPAs via email. I made the tone less critical and more helpful, and shortened it by 20%. I also took out the more specific points about the October issue. Once everyone agrees that a version of the letter is satisfactory, I will ask the GAPAs to post a message on the main page asking anyone and everyone to sign it. Not yet, because I’m not sure if this version of the letter is good enough. Oh, I also bolded the more important points, so I’ll send it as an attachment.
Signing,
ZestyLemon
Reader/Subscriber for 2 years
Everyone–read post #81!
Good grief, people are sure heated……. I wish I’d said more…… But it’s nice to be in a letter to Muse, even if it ends up in the FMP and I only contributed two sentences…..
I’m not sure if this is necessary, but I’m doing it anyway.
Signing,
Armada
Reader/Subscriber for 3 years
98–I have. I’m not quite sure what are you getting at –unless I misinterpret her post, she seems to be feeling a lot the same as the rest of us. That Muse has lost something recently.
Signing,
IBCF
Reader/Subscriber for 3 years
I’m confused.
I want an article on pumpkins.
102- What are you confused about?
98- We’ve read it. Why did you want us to read it again?
99- It’s not too late. The letter is still in the works. Saying something now could appear… scripted, but if what you say is good, then I’ll put it into the letter.
It appears word has spread to other threads about this letter/petition. As soon as Rebecca puts the latest version onto Google, you all can make corrections as you wish. This version’s a lot more gentle and a lot less attacking. And a lot clearer.
(103) Here’s the link:
http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=d2nvgdc_164cdkwzfc7
Yeah! It works! I’m not going to bother sending a new one for a while because the only changes are signature additions. Rebecca, you’re the most awesome GAPA that happens to be on the ‘Blog at this moment. And you weren’t at all “intruding where [you] don’t belong.” You’re a Muser just like all of us are Musers.
Sorry for the double post, but, if I clicked on the link which reads “Request access to this document,” would you grant access so I could just make the changes myself and not make you do it every time? I have a Gmail account as well as the one I am using for the ‘Blog. Thanks!
86 – You are right that a few posts have been constructive and have some great ideas for how to fix the magazine — or even just what, exactly they see that is wrong with it. I thought posts 81 and 82, for example, were great. We just wanted to stop some of the more senseless posts and stuff. We will probably eventually post something more in-depth.
103–I think that looks pretty good overall. I do know however, that in post 92 Lizzie didn’t seem entirely sure that she wanted to be included in the letter. So, before all of this gets finalized, we should probably get a firm “yes, you can include me” or “no, I think I’d rather not have my comments in it” from her. We wouldn’t want to make any fellow MBers mad at us!
And I would like to add (not necessarily to the letter, although that is ok too), that I would like some more variety to the first page. The format/style used to be so unpredictable, making it even more funny than the content alone. Now, I know before I even open the magazine, that it will be yet another “Dear Muse Reader.” While some of these DMR spoofs have been fairly amusing, the repetition of it is wearing thin. Don’t get me wrong–I want to keep the tradition of the “first page spoof”, but it would add so much if it were not always a “Dear Muse Reader,” but instead had the same unpredictable variety of old.
(105, 106) Aww, thanks, Piggy. *curtsies* It’s really no bother posting the revisions. I’m afraid we’d be stretching the rules too far and setting a problematic precedent if we granted direct access though. Sorry about that.
104 – It looks great. I like how the important phrases are in bold.
Piggy—
I think you are going about the letter in the wrong direction. Instead of sending excerpts from posts, you should create a much more organized way to present the information. Think about what you want to accomplish. Come up with three or four key points for the letter, and sum each idea up into one concise sentence. Then, back up that idea with suggestions, advice, and a few constructive quotes from MuseBloggers.
Just think of it as writing an essay. A strong introduction/conclusion and clear topic sentences will make the letter more understandable. Using quotes as evidence and support is a much more solid way to synthesize your ideas, instead of just plunking down chunks of bolded text. Take those bold ideas, and expand them!
I also think the tone of the current letter still seems to be focused on the bad things about the magazine, and less on optimism for the future (which is, I think, what you’re trying to accomplish). I’m also confused about the Ivars Peterson/Paul Baker request. Ivars left the magazine of his own accord (I remember a discussion about this, but correct me if I’m wrong). And articles-for-Muse, like those Paul has written in the past, are much less frequent because of budget problems. And why is it only 2004-2006?
–Pan
Purple Panda is correct: Ivars Peterson stopped writing the Math Page because was too busy to give it his attention. There are other fine math writers who could take over the column if the magazine should decide to revive it, but I’m afraid Ivars himself is gone for good.
You know, I think that the bit on the end about getting Ivars back should be deleted. I want my Math Page as much as the next person, but it’s not Muse‘s fault that he left.
Hmmm, yeah, I hadn’t noticed the 2004-2006 thing–there were definitely good articles long before that–as far back as 2001 (the first year I got Muse, can’t vouch for earlier). Likewise, I think Pan might have a good point about taking the excerpts and summarizing, with some quotes included. I realize this is potentially a lot of work, but it might, in the end, convey our ideas better, thus being more effective.
113–true. What about PB&J, though? did he decide he didn’t ahve time to write articles? Cuz I miss his articles. Lots.
Guys, this is incredible. I can’t believe I had no idea this was going on. I’m relieved to hear it’s not just me picking up on unusual things surrounding Muse. Can I add a bit to the letter? Here goes:
In the past few months I’ve noticed myself shying away from Muse a bit. The August issue sat, half read, under my bed for weeks. The elation I remember feeling on seeing Muse in the mailbox seems to have deflated. I’ve been putting it down to high school stress and such, but I’m realizing I don’t really see in Muse what I used to. One of my favorite parts of my personality has been the ability to talk in-depth about unusual subjects—garnered from my favorite magazine. I attribute a lot of my knowledge, and what’s more, willingness to learn, to Muse. I want to see it continue to show kids just how awesome learning can be.
-Nora, reader/subscriber for 7 years
(115) Luna: Haven’t a clue about Paul B. He’s certainly been too busy to blog lately. You could ask him next time he stops by.
117–I would (will), if I ever “saw” (“see”) him.
I’ve been getting Muse ever since it started, and I agree, it has changed. But at first those changes were for the better, because the magazine was developing its personality. (BTW, this is why I’m against reprinting articles. I’ve got all of them–or almost all, my second issue has disappeared without leaving a note) I thought that I was just getting older, and was therefore not as interested in the magazine, and that saddened me greatly. But now that I see that others have these feelings too, I realize that it’s not me getting older, there’s something else wrong here. I don’t profess to know how to fix it, but something does need to be done.
Alright, I have (sort of) done what Pan suggested. I took Piggy’s compilation and modified it–perhaps for the worse. I’m sending it to the GAPAs, and any suggestions/comments/critiques/whatever are welcome. You’re evenw elcome to tell me that my changes just made the whole thing worse, and tht it should be scrapped and we should go back to what Piggy had. that’s fine by me. Sure, I’ll have wasted an hour and a half, but hey, whatever. i realize that my changes may not’ve been helpful, and that even if they wre an improvement, that a lot more probably needs to be odne before this letter is ready to be sent.
Also, Lizzie, I can take out the quote from you if you want, just lemme know.
103, 98- Because Lizzie is right, and I wanted to make sure everyone has read her post.
Okay, I’ve changed the 2004-2006 bit and the Ivars/Paul Baker bit. I still have in there that we want our Math Page, though. I don’t have time at the moment to make a new, more structured letter, but when I get home from school I will. Unless, by that time, Luna’s letter will have been posted and agreed upon, in which case I will not write another letter. Oh, and if anyone sees Lizzie, ask her if she wants to be a part of this petition. Rebecca, or any GAPA, I guess- Would it be all right if I published the letter to a Google Docs URL like you [Rebecca] did, so I could edit it whenever changes are made? Of course it’s technically an external link and all, so I understand if you don’t think it should be allowed. Problematic precedents and all. Anyways, gotta get to school. See y’all later.
Hi, friends.
I’m not going to post anything long here, because it seems like every time one of us comes on the blog and tries to help, we only end up fanning the flames. I’ll just make two points.
One: I have read this entire thread, and I’ve read the entirety of every Muse discussion thread since I came here in August 2007. And any letters that you send to Muse will be read by…me, again. If that helps your editing process.
Two: As I said in a previous thread, we are aware that Muse has been passing through an awkward adolescence. But, just like our parents still loved us and fed us and paid for our orthodontia, we still love Muse. And we are working all the time on improving the magazine, so it can grow into a cool, non-awkward magazine with acne-free skin and properly-fitting clothes, able to express gracefully the personality that made us love it in the first place.
Best,
EP
122–see, the only problem with what I did, was I didn’t exactly have loads of time, and wasn’t feeling very creative, but rather more braindead, so basically, I just spliced quotes together with the occasional linking sentence. I mean, I read it through and it didn’t look confusing to me, but then, usually when I read my own writing, I understand it even ic no one else does. I used MLA style quotations to give credit to whichever MBer supplied each quote. It was the most logical way I could think of at the time…..
ok, I’m an idiot. I emailed the GAPAs, but didn’t acytually attach the word doc to my email…..don’t ask–it was 11:30 at night…..So, GAPAs, I am resending, this time with the doc.
123–whoa. I haven’t even read a quarter of all the Muse discussion threads in the past year.
Elizabeth,
I don’t think that every time one of you comes on that the flames get fanned. For instance, I have found in your posts that you seem like you are honestly trying to help. Mr. Sanford’s post–yes, that did fan the flames quite a bit, as he came across (to me anyway, admittedly not to everybody) as condescending and patronizing. I do respect that you are trying to help, and all of us greatly appreciate that you have been so active in trying to learn what it is that we Muse readers want from our beloved magazine. I don’t think a single person here would disagree that you seem to be earnest in your attempts to help.
Unfortunately, the magazine still has a long way to go before it is returned to the glory of old. From looking at some of the posts on the thread, it sounds like the October issue may be a sign that Muse is on the mend. i can’t vouch for this, however, since I (still!) haven’t received that issue. However, I did read Pan’s article, and it is an absolutely perfect example of the kind of article Muse has been lacking recently. It was superb.
By creating and sending in this letter, we are hoping to help get Muse on the mend. I think I speak for all of us when I say we don’t want to feel forced to stop subscribing to the magazine. Actually, I’m lucky I still am subscribed, as my parents are paying for it, and Mom wasn’t very keen on continuing subscribing to a “kids” magazine, but I convinced her that it was not just for kids, that it wrote articles that were mature and interesting, that were educational for everyone–even college students. But if Muse continues in the vein of the last year, I’m not sure how long I can convince my mom of that.
You say you are the one reading all the letters to Muse, but you are the Assistant Editor, correct? So, maybe when we send the letter in, you could take it (publish it if it weren’t too long–which it is) and have any editor(s) above you read it, as well as all the other people involved with creating each issue of Muse. You know, like an interdepartmental email, saying this is what we want to do–incorporate these readers ideas, try to give them back the magazine that they fell in love with all those years ago (8, for me–that is, I’ve got issues as far back as 2001, my mom subscribed to it as supplementation for my homeschooling, but at the time I had no interest, but by 2003 I absolutely loved Muse).
We don’t want to harass you and the other editors, we would much rather not have to complain at all. I, personally, grew to like you during our correspondence earlier this year as we were getting my eagle article ready to publish. I think you honestly are trying to help restore Muse to its former glory, and I respect that you spend so much time lurking on MB trying to get a feel for what readers want.
I know I would deeply appreciate it if, when we send this letter, you would in turn send it to the others involved in making Muse, or at least have them read it, as I would be rather surprised if they were quite as active in reading the discussions on MB!
Sincerely, and respectfully,
Michelle
(and now I better head to class–bio lecture at 11!)
On the subject of younger readers (or, maybe not, I just read the beginning of the thread over), I am a younger reader, and I still think that Muse has changed. You guys haven’t grown out of it.
We’ve been subscribing for around 8 years, and it has changed a lot. Now I’m not so excited for Muse to come, but the October issue was pretty cool, except for Q & A, and one article…
123- Do you alone read every single letter sent to Muse? It seems like that would make the mail that gets published a bit biased. I’m not saying you’re biased, but if one person decides what gets published and what doesn’t, the things that are published will reflect how they feel. I agree with Luna that, when the letter is sent to you, you should send it to most or all of the Muse staff. This letter affects everyone, not just you. I realize that it may be a bit long to publish, but please don’t rule that out. Please help all the readers learn how to stand up for what they believe in, and how to do so politely. Please, when you’re making our magazine get through its adolescence, don’t get rid of what made it the magazine it used to be. Unfortunately, you already have started doing so, and I am worried because of that. Please. When we send the letter in, forward it to everyone. They need to see it. I suppose this is a bit of an intervention. “Look, Muse, you have a problem, but we’re here to help you. Don’t be afraid. You’ll be all right.”
123–taking a different angle then Piggy on the “do you alone read every single letter sent to Muse?” I would be thinking mroe along the lines of–when the heck do you sleep? Surely there are more letters coming in than one person can read without spending the entire duration of their life reading them. So, if you are the one who sorts through all letters, when do you ahve time not only to have a life, but to do the rest of your job? I would suggest either hiring somebod/multiple sombodies to do this job, or, if that would be too expensive, splitting the job between current employees…..just a thought.
Here is Luna the Lovely’s suggested revision:
http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=d2nvgdc_165fz3zpmgt
huh, strange–I could have sworn that I had decided that I wasn’t going to say “grovel before Paul Baker” and yet now I see that I did. Shows how well my brain was functioning last night at 11:30!
128 – No, I am not usually the person who chooses letters for publication, though I’ve read most of the letters. But any letter of a serious nature will get passed along to me. And if you send in a letter that clearly describes the problems you see in the magazine, I’ll be happy to share that with the others here to whom it’s relevant.
By the way, I thought you guys would be totally won over by my Douglas Adams reference. No dice?
132–Douglas Adams reference? What Douglas Adams reference? I haven’t read H2G2, so Douglas Adams references are lost on me–sorry! (I did see the movie, though)
130 – Luna’s revision is representing very well the various opinions we’ve expressed on this thread. I think it’s a good letter to send in, but I do have one suggestion. The continual use of quotation marks and, especially, parentheses make reading the letter very choppy; it’s harder to focus on what’s being said. You might want to try using footnotes instead.
Wow, Luna!
And while I did like the last issue, I must agree: Muse has degraded. The bridge-thing issue was a flop, I barely even touched it. What happened to the letters, anyway? They’re very hard to find now. I do appreciate the no-ads thing, but, still, no themes?
134–yeah, I see what you mean. That might work–I was just thinking parentheses with the person whom I was quoting in the, following MLA style citation. Of course, I never did like MLA for exactly that reason–the parentheses at the ends of quotes, containing the author’s name always irritated me. I’ll think on this, and get some input from others, so we can figure something out!
Oh, and Elizabeth? (132) You said you thought we’d be won over by the Douglas Adams reference (the one I still am clueless about). Well, if you want to win me over, or at least want me to notice your reference, I suggest a Harry Potter reference!
73- I prefer revolt. And I, too, nominate you as the leader.
I am one of those who might be considered a “younger reader” (I won’t say how young) and I find muse a bit too easy for me. me and my “younger reader” friends agree that it lacks depth.
I also wish muse had a math page again, and all those things muse used to have. I also wish muse was as big as it used to be. I doubt that that’s possible, but I wish it was.
82- I have attack of the smart pies, too! it’s an okay book, even if you know nothing about muse.
108- yeah, dear muse reader has gotten old
signing- vaxiddxvii
reader for two years
I want an article on dragons and medieval knights and castles
I want to sign!
Kokonilly, devoted Muse Reader for 3 years, MuseBlogger for 2
137–you know, I think there was something with dragons in the LOTR issue. Not a lot, maybe, but something. Cuz it had this little cutout spoof thing on how to identify different types of dragons. That was great. I like that issue.
NOW GIVE ME A HARRY POTTER ONE LIKE THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!! please
Douglass Adams reference? I really need to re-read those books – completely missed it. Someone explain, kthxbai?
I’m fine with you guys including me; I do think, however, that sending separate letters might be more effective / easier to coordinate, although, since it seems like the Muse staff is reading this, ranting on here probably has some of the same effect. I would, however, suggest that people use their real first name + age, as on the internet no one knows you’re a dog.
And I’m kind of feeling punchy right now, so if I don’t make any sense forgive me. Bad day. Bad week. Bad year x_x
Oh-kay, I’ve been edited out of the letter……..
That’s okay, I didn’t really contribute anything anyway. LtL, if you want you can take my signature out. I don’t need to be there if there’s nothing in the letter that I said, it just looks weird for me to be there…….
140–um, I don’t get “as on the internet no one knows you’re a dog.” We’re dogs? I thought we were people. Forgive me if I am extraordinarily dense, but you lost me.
141–Armada, I’m sorry, I thought i included everybody who was in Piggy’s compilation–or were you not in that either? *checks* ok, you were in the first, but not the second. Lemme see if I can work you in. But, even if you’re not quoted, it still wouldn’t be weird for you to sign, as lots of people have signed who weren’t quoted, and signing it just means that you agree with/support/approve of what those in the letter say. It’s like a petition. Somebody comes up with a petition, like “I do not want such and such to happen in my town,” and then that person takes that petition and gets all like minded people to sign. The more signatures, the better.
ok, my brain is really not concentrating well right now. could somebody help me work Armada back in? I feel bad leaving her out, and although she only had one sentence, everyone’s voice is important here. I’m just having trouble focusing well enough to get her worked back in. Thanks, guys (girls)!
142-She lost me too. I think it means something along he lines of ‘no one would know if you were a dog’, but I could be wrong.
It’s okay, it’s not like I’ve been wanting for years to be in a letter protesting Muse and am now going off and crying because I’m not included after all……. but if you need to work me in just for the sake of having my name underneath a quote, work this in instead……..
“I used to wait eagerly at the beginning of each month for my Muse to arrive, but now I am more interested in reading back issues than in waiting for new ones. Muse has definitely lost a lot of the things that used to make it my favorite magazine.”
There, that’s at least a little more imaginative, right?
143-Read my post……. (SFTDP, by the way, really sorry)
144/145–It’s not that I need to work you in, I want to! And if my brain weren’t so fuzzy, I dont’ think I’d be having any difficulties…..
(140, 142, 144, etc.) Lizzie is referring to a now-classic New Yorker cartoon that shows a dog sitting at a computer and saying to another dog, “On the Internet, nobody knows you’re a dog.” I think Lizzie means, “If you just give your blogname, you could be anybody.”
You can see the cartoon at
www . cartoonbank.com/item/22230
Hmmmm, what do you guys think, how about if I add it right after “The original format of Muse was and is the most popular style†(Piggy). and before “We have not grown out of it [the magazine]. The old issues are still awesome, the new issues….not so awesome†(Luna the Lovely).
Also, even if we do use blog names, instead of switching to real names, like Lizzie suggested, I do think it might be good to at least include ages–this way, it will be clearly obvious that it is not just the older readers (such as myself) who have noticed the changes and are unhappy, but the younger readers as well.
SFTDP–(147) Oh, I get it now, Robert. I’ve never seen the cartoon, otherwise I might have gotten it on my own…..Yeah, I see what she means. I am ok with either blogname and age, or first name/first name last initial and age. Whatever the majority vote is for.
Okay. Age 12 for me!
148- I will sign whatever petition there is. What happened to the sciencey history stuff, like the Vesuvius article?
147-Oh. Thanks.
148-‘It’ as in what? My comment? I do like the comment I said in post 144 better, by the way, whatever you end up doing.
That’s a good idea, to include ages. Okay……
Armada
Age 12
Reader/Subscriber for 3 years
(Any more details?)
And, again sorry for the double post, I’m fine with whatever way we agree to sign this thing. Blogname, real first name and last initial, whatever. I don’t care one way or the other.
152–“it” as in the comment you posted in 144.
and those details look good.
How about we include number of years as an MBer? Doesn’t need to be exact–like I’ve been blogging since 3/06, but just put 2 years, even though it’s…..2 yrs 7 months
Or…let’s round to nearest half year. (Like 2.5 for me then)
Okay, this should cover everything.
Signing:
Tesseract
Abby M.
Age 14
Grade 9
Subscriber for 4 years
Oh. And um, about a month as a MBer. Less, actually, but by the time the letter’s sent…
I shall now say my OFFICIAL signature.
Kokonilly
Age 12
Subscriber for 3 years
MuseBlogger for 2 years
154-Okay.
And for the signature……..
Armada
Sahar E.B.
Age 12
Reader/Subscriber for 3 years
MuseBlogger for 3 (it’ll be at least three by the time this gets published) months
Anything else ?
On the whole, I’d say both revisions are headed in the right direction. The tone is friendlier, the text focuses on MuseBloggers’ opinions of the magazine itself without involving the personalities.
As I try to read it afresh — as if I were the intended recipient and had never seen it before — the first thing that strikes me is the length is quite overwhelming. In purely tactical terms, you have a major hurdle to overcome to get your audience to read this with the attention it deserves.
Many of the comments are variations on similar content, and some of the most incisive observations get lost. For example, “The issues I remember the most clearly are the ones where the articles weren’t copies of what I could find out by reading Wikipedia” sums up many of your complaints and does so in a memorable way. It’s “sticky.” Unfortunately, it’s also buried deep within the letter.
……….
My main thought is that some additional structure would help. Here’s one possible approach:
Opening statement: more or less what you have now, perhaps trimmed a little more (essentially a thesis statement, excuse my language).
Lead with the positive: It’s a classic maneuver of persuasion to start by acknowledging the strong points of the person(s) you’re addressing. In any case, it never hurts to start with “here’s what you’re doing right.” Several comments to that effect are dispersed throughout the letter. You could choose one and/or summarize their substance in a brief paragraph.
Summarize your main concerns: this could even be done with bullet points. Lead with your strongest suit, keep the list short (3-5 max), and frame each item in a positive format if you can, rather than a complaint (something along the lines of “we would like to see more in-depth articles on unexpected topics” rather than “don’t dumb down the magazine.”
Present the depth of your support: Here’s where the quotations from the blog would be assembled, perhaps grouped by main subject. The bullet points could be used as categories. Excerpts would suffice to cut down on repetition (after all, the comments were simply written as blog posts, not composed with the expectation they’d be used in a letter).
Another possible way of handling this section would be to list each MuseBlogger with ens quotation.
Anyhow, such are some thoughts I had while reading your latest drafts. I hope some of it’s useful one way or another.
I revised it a little bit and sent it in.
132- I thought the reference seemed a bit forced, like you were trying to win us over. Which, apparently, you were.
Armada- The reason I had cut you out is, though I in no way disliked your input, I had to make it shorter and your points had been stated already, albeit in slightly different terms.
160- I’ll make a new letter, and condense the quotes some more. Did you see my comment about myself publishing a Google docs page with my versions of the letter? I understand you almost definitely will not want it, but I want to know anyway. And since you didn’t see it the first time, I just thought I’d mention it again.
I think the time on MB is a bit unnecessary, but I do like the real names part. Although that will force me to reveal my true self. Oh, well. If it’s for Muse, I’ll do it. Daniel S., age 14.
162-I know. I wasn’t complaining, I was stating.
160–Hm, yes, I think that’s all useful–thank you! If we are going to get this to a point where it is ready to be sent to Muse, I think we are going to need a lot of help from all the MBers interested. From Kokonilly’s post (161), it sounds like she has started on the revision process.
I think I probably speak for Piggy as well when I say that I am fairly busy with school (when I actually work on it and don’t procrastinate…..) and don’t have the time to do all the necessary revising myself. If we all work together on revising, not only will it be more of a group effort, but it will go a lot quicker than if one or two people work on it.
So, as each new revision gets sent in, any changes/suggestions/comments, full-blown revisions any MBer (or GAPA!) wants to contribute will be very much appreciated!
I, for one, am going to delay working on it until I see Kokonilly’s revisions (to save myself from additional work, lol).
(162) Oh, sorry, Piggy, by the time I finished writing my earlier post, I forgot to get back to you about the Google docs page.
If you like, you could set it up and email us the link, then post a comment to say when the update was ready. From there, we could copy and paste it into our own Google doc.
I know that sounds clunky, but at least you could do all the editing on the one page. And it’s actually a little more convenient than downloading Word documents.
Random observation: I love the word “albeit” (used in #162).
Elizabeth “Ebeth” A.
Age 17
Reader/Subscriber for 6 years
MuseBlogger for 3 years (and 20 days)
Alice W.
Age 15
Reader for many years, subscriber on and off
Museblogger for 1.5 years
GAPAs, did you get my ever-so-slightly revised version? It simply includes more signatures and footnotes rather than () s.
If we’re doing names now, instead of blognames:
Michelle W.
(168) Here’s Kokonilly’s version:
http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=d2nvgdc_166c4v4gn3b
Thanks! Mind, the changes are subtle, but they’re there.
Real name?
Samantha Z.
Piggy’s newest draft.
I’m 18, if you wanted to add that, since some have ages. I don’t have time to read it right now–I assume you changed something, alhtough not obviously. Sorry, not trying to be critical, I just don’t see it glancing, and don’t have time to read it right now–the idiots at the health center claim never to have gotten a c opy of my shot record that my mother faxed them in July, and she refaxed it Sat, so hopefully they have it now, but I have to clal them, because since they claim not to have a record of my meningitis vaccination, they have put a hold on my registration–meaning I can’t register for classes for next sememster until the imbeciles get this cleared up. and registration begins in a ocuple weeks…….
ok–I skimmed it quickly. The only changes I see are an addition about the Dear Muse Reader to one of my segments, and the addition of Nora the violinists’ comment, as well as modification of the Paul Baker/Ivars section (and of course the signatures).
Only comment is I thought we were going to try Pan’s advice in 111, and Lady Bunniful’s in 160. Anyway, I gotta go!!!!!!
162- “Daniel S.?” Not to sound like a stalker or anything, but where do you live? I think I might know you…
ok, here is a list of bloggers that have said they want to be included, but for whom we do not have an age and/or real name (i.e. first name, last initial).
The Man for Aeiou (name + age)
Rainbowstar (name + age)
ZestyLemon (name + age)
IBCF (nmae + age)
vaxiddxvii (name + age)
So are we doing blogname or real name? I’m assuming real name, but we could do both, that would be kind of cool…..
All the versions look great, by the way. This is exciting……
Haven’t been here for a while… included for what? Is there some sort of petition being signed?
Spoiler ahead.
I have deciphered that thing with Koko next to the ballot box from the Vote.com article. It says that only people from Kokonino County can vote there.
177–I have people in mine with:
first name last initial (blogname), age, years as reader/subscriber
178–yup, that’s exactly what’s happening. The first mention of a petition was in post 73 by Piggy on…..Friday. The first draft of the petition was in post 83, next in 104, then 130 (a significantly revised one, by yours truly), Kokonilly’s revision of 130 in 170, and then another one by Piggy in 172 that builds off of 104 rather than 130/170.
Woah! That’s not the new version. I’ll try it again. It’ll be two emails, because I forgot to put the URL in the first one.
175- Well, there’s probably a thousand Daniel S.s, but I live in eastern Nebraska. Which means you probably don’t know me.
Sorry for the double posts, but I have a partial explanation for why Master Baker hasn’t been seen on here in ages. To quote his website: “In addition to the usual round of weddings, school performances, instrument commissions and the odd concert, I’ve started work on a big order for interactives for a major museum, which will take most of the year, and may extend into early 2009.” Apparently, he’s busy teaching the ignorant masses what a hurdy-gurdy is. He explains the huge mass of work here: (GAPAs, please let this through. It’s Paul’s website, and completely harmless.)www. diabolus .org/ interactives/ interactives .htm (without the spaces, of course). I think I for one can pardon him for his extended absence.
This thread has grown dramatically in the past few days, and I’d like a bit of a summary……….you’re sending in a letter from multiple bloggers? Not to be mean, but if I send in a letter I’ll do it by myself. I’ll read the ones you’ve put up here, but at this time I’m going to ask not to be included.
We are working on sending in a letter that is composed from comments/sentiments expressed by MBers on this thread. You can see one version in 170, another in 172(although this is apparently not the draft Piggy meant to send in). I don’t think comments have been included from anybody who did not want to be included, and the only signatures belong to those who expressly stated that they wanted to be added–so don’t worry about that.
As for preferring to send your own letter–doesn’t bother me in the least. but, if you should happen to change your mind…..
Oh, add “Kokonilly” somewhere into my signature (Samantha Z), please. I don’t want to be totally anonymous to the MuseBloggers.
181- It’s just an eerie coincidence, then…the other Daniel S. is also a Christian, spends a lot of time on a computer, and acts and talks kind of like you. Ah, well.
Midnight Fiddler- In my actual newest letter, I do have one quote from you: “Any sensible younger child would be perfectly able to read and understand longer, more in-depth articles.â€, which I do attribute to you. Do you want me to delete it? When Rebecca comes on, I do hope she is able to put the letter I meant to send on a Google Docs page. It’s much better than the last one, and it followed her suggestions in comment 160.
My signature stuff:
Miranda C.
Age 11
182-he’s building a mechanical lion. and puppets. they judder, apparently.
“it’s like shivering, but more mechanical. You just drive the
rotation axis 7.5 degrees left and right at about 8 Hz.”
183–oh, I was wrong in post 184.
I just looked at what I had, and realized that I did have a quote from you in it….Sorry. Just proves I am a total idiot, seeing as I said nobody was quoted who wasn’t ok with it…..I can take you out, no prob–assuming we even go with my revision, and not Piggy’s. I haven’t read his newest yet, don’t think it’s up.
Here’s my signature list so far (any changes additions, just lemme know–and I’m still waiting for some people’s real names!):
Daniel S. (Piggy Pigzo), age 14, reader for 4 years
The Man For Aeiou, reader for 4 years, subscriber for 3
Abby M. (Tesseract), age 14, reader/subscriber for 4 years
Miranda C. (Rainbowstar), age 11, reader for 2 years, subscriber for 1.5

Michelle W. (Luna the Lovely), age 18, reader/subscriber for 8 years
Elizabeth “Ebeth†A., age 17, reader/subscriber for 6 years
ZestyLemon,
reader/Subscriber for 2 years
Sahar E.B. (Armada), age 12,
reader/subscriber for 3 years
IBCF,
reader/subscriber for 3 years
Vaxiddxvii, reader for 2 years
Samantha Z. (Kokonilly), age 12, subscriber for 3
Alice W., age 15, reader for many years
190-Looks good.
Here’s Piggy’s newest revision. (Apologies for the delay; just got home.)
http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=d2nvgdc_169hqh83hgk
I think that looks pretty darn good. What does our darling Lady Bunniful think? Your comments have been very helpful so far–any more suggestions on what we should revise?
Although–I think we should work Lizzie’s quote about articles and wikipedia back in–like Lady B. said, it is very “sticky”.
190- You can take out the “Pigzo” part.
193- I added Lizzie’s Wikipedia quote into my version.
Well, I think, if revisions are slowing down and drawing to a close, I think we should start deciding who’s letter to use, and, of couse, go out and get more signatures. If they do decide to publish it, we could get it into the January issue at the earliest, because I don’t know how long getting signatures will take. Don’t want to leave anyone out.
194–Done. It now just has Piggy in parentheses.
I’m cool with using your version–it seems more like what Lady B. was saying would be good in post 160. We can take a vote, though–get all the MBers to say which version they would prefer.
As far as getting in published in the January issue–that seems slightly optimistic. It seems like letter ususally take much more than 3 months to get published…..buyt then, I’ve never gotten a letter published, so I could be wrong.
Hmmm–your blog clock is 8 minutes fast. My cell (and computer) both said it was 8:02 when I posted, but the blog timestamp is 8:10. And I know the time on my cell is right for sure–it takes it direct from the satellite (or some such thing)–i didn’t have to reset the time when I came down to schoo–it automatically set the time to 3 hrs later. And on my comp, I just choose the time zone, and it sets the time.
Let’s see. My cellphone says 9:29. I’ll post this when it clicks over to 9:30. That should be 8:30 blog time.
8:38! Interesting.
proof that it is 8 minutes fast, and that you (or your cell, anyway) reside in the eastern time zone.
197–you added to your comment after posting……the “8:38! Interesting.” wasn’t there originally….. naughty GAPA. just kidding.
Well, I say we wait a few days to hear everyone’s opinions on our letters, make sure there are no more changes which need to be made, and then bring this letter to the public of MuseBlog. And I guess January may be a bit early. Actually, it probably won’t get published. My version’s about two pages long, three with signatures, and I really don’t think they would publish it no matter how long it was. Well, looks like this letter thing is getting closer and closer to completion. Wow. I proposed the letter idea only four days ago. Seems like weeks, but I guess you know what they say: time flies when you’re civilly protesting.
I’m going to check the clock thing too.
(SFTDP) Yep. Exactly 8 minutes off. That’s weird…
(201 et al.) Hmm. Blog time was about five minutes ahead twelve days ago. We seem to be accelerating into the future.
200–you mean no matter how short it is
.
201–
oh no!
192 – I really like this version.
192-Ooh, nice! I think that’s the best version yet. I like how you have the compliments/complaints/other stuff all filed neatly with numbers and stuff.
And I am happy I have been added back in.
(Note: I AM NOT COMPLAINING. I WAS NEVER COMPLAINING. I am simply excited that I am part of a letter to Muse. Do not bother to say anything.)
Oh, wait, sorry–in 203, I meant to put 202, not 201. So, the ”
oh no!” was for Lady Bunniful’s post, not Piggy’s……
204–wanna sign? And should I know you? Your name almost seems familiar, but the acronym names are really hard for me to keep track of–except for one or two who are very frequent-ish posters (such as POSOC, IBCF)
205–anything
oh, I know I did have one suggestion Piggy. In your list, you have numbers 1, 2, 3, etc. each with an indented list following, also using numbers. I would suggest instead of using numbers in the embedded lists, either use Roman Numberal numbers (i, ii, iii, iv, etc–preferably little, in this case–i like the litle ones) or use letters (a, b, c). Or make the original list ( the one with th elist embedded) with something other than numbers. That was how I learned to make outline type things. You start with A, B, C, etc. than use 1, 2, 3, etc. for the imbedded list, or vice versa. Other than than, I think it looks pretty good (least, I can’t think of anything else right now…..)
This version is definitely the best so far, but the quotes still seem very forced. They need to be “sandwiched.” That is, introduce the quote and conclude it with words that work it into the idea. Explain why the quote pertains to the topic at hand, etc.
*disappears back into textbook*
Can I please please please have a November/December discussion thread? I know it’s super super early but I got mine today and I need to say what I want to say about it before I forget.
Did that make any sense? xD
209–you…..got…..your…..nov/dec……muse? I DON”T EVEN HAVE MY OCTOBER ONE YET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That’s not fair!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Can I sign the petition-thing?
My stuff is:
muselover
Age 11
Reader for 2 years (but still remember some of the old things)
Ack! I’ve been signed as Nora the Violinist! A violin is a very different thing from a viola, folks.
Anyway, I’d prefer it be changed to Nora R., age 15, for added legitimacy. ^_~
About the formatting: I feel like the numbered headings get lost in the subsequent numbered text. Maybe they can be bolded or something to make them stand out?
I’m not giving my real name out.
207, 212- In the Word document, it’s numbers, then letters for the subpoints. Apparently Google Docs doesn’t like that very much. Believe me, the formatting’s much nicer in the original document.
211- Can you give a first name and last initial?
208- My “outlined” sections are in parallel structure, i.e. point 2 in the second one pertains to point 2 in the first one.
212- Oh, wow, sorry. No, I do know the difference between string instruments. Completely overlooked that.
213- How ’bout an age?
209- *glares grudgingly*
My signature list so far:
Daniel S. (Piggy), age 14, reader/subscriber for 4 years
The Man for Aeiou, reader for 4 years, subscriber for 3
Abby M. (Tesseract), age 14, reader for 4 years
Miranda C.(Rainbowstar), age 11, reader for 2 years, subscriber for 1.5
Michelle W. (Luna the Lovely), age 18, reader for 8 years
Elizabeth A. (Ebeth), age 17, reader/subscriber for 6 years
(ZestyLemon), reader/subscriber for 2 years
Sahar E.B. (Armada), age 12, reader/subscriber for 3 years
(IBCF), reader/subscriber for 3 years
Nora R. (Nora the Violist), age 15, reader/subscriber for 7 years
(Vaxiddxvii), reader for 2 years
Samantha Z. (Kokonilly), age 12, reader for 3 years
Alice W. (Alice), age 15, reader for many years
(Muselover), age 11, reader for 2 years
So I need ZestyLemon’s, IBCF’s, Vaxi’s, and Muselover’s information, and TMFA’s age, if he’ll give it up.
[random]
202- AAHHHHH!! The LHC must have torn the fabric of spacetime! WE’RE ALL GONNA DIE!! *sobs*
[/random]
I play violin, and Nora’s right. A viola is bigger and has lower pitch than a violin.
215- I know. I’m a musician myself, and I’ve got a lot of experience with orchestral instruments, as well as keyboard, woodwind, and brass. Pretty much everything, actually. The one thing I don’t like about violas actually doesn’t pertain to them alone: C clef. Whoever thought of a clef that could change on the drop of a hat? By the way, would you like to sign the letter?
206-TPOSG is an alter ego.
207-
Thank you…….
TMFA is thirteen, by the way.
I noticed that there’s a November/December Muse thread, and I didn’t want to go on it in case of spoilers, but–how many people got their issue?
212–yeah, I think I referred to you as a violinist at one point. Sorry about that–I do know that a viola is not the same thing as violin–I just misread your name. I have problems with that. If I read something, my brain often misses words or reads a slightly odd word (no that violist is odd–I don’t mean that–just a word I don’t regularly see) as a similar looing/sounding one that I read/hear more often.
215–yup…..i just can’t read!
(218) tesseract: Noting the arrival of issues is what the “November/December Muse Roll Call” thread is for.
214- Sorry about this, but please de-capitalize my name. I prefer it to be the way it is. Also, my name is Luke F.
221- Done. Where’d everybody go?
OCTOBER MUSE SPOILER.
Wow. This is definitely the best Muse I’ve seen in the recent past. The editors seem to have taken our suggestions to heart. I enjoyed the theme, and didn’t really care at all that it wasn’t spooky.
Congratulations to Vixen on getting her letter in!
And to Pan on her Muserology page!
214- I’m D. T. H., age 15. Is that enough?
224- Sure.
This thread has died. Can we have a new thread to continue working on the letter, maybe?
226-Is there more letter to work on? I think we pretty much have everything figured out. Now all we have to do is bug the editors until they publish it.
WHY, may I ask, why is there still a push to bother Muse editors into publishing something? That’s completely ridiculous; I really thought we had moved past that.
As for the letter itself, I have some thoughts:
1. The quotes are still out of place. Yes, they relate to the topics, but they aren’t integrated into the other text well enough. It should flow smoothly — the quotes need to be introduced, explained, and integrated into the rest of the letter.
2. “A minority of MuseBloggers have been pleased with the recent content of your once fine periodical.” This sentence has always bothered me. It’s talking about the positive opinions of some MBers, but then it shifts and harshly negates those blogger’s opinions by saying “your once fine periodical.” I’ll have to ask THF about it — it may be just me.
3. “Fake web pages, mini-myths, and articles by Paul Baker were always popular but haven’t been seen in years.” Paul Baker’s last article was in November/December 2007. Screamazon.eek was in October 2007. The last mini-myth was in October 2006. Be careful when using phrases like “haven’t been seen in years,” and fact-check more carefully.
4. “The Q&A, in its current position in the middle of the magazine, is nearly impossible to find.” Oh, come on. If you want to find it, look in the table of contents. The page numbers are clearly marked and the table of contents will take you right to it.
228–we had, I think. [moved past bugging the editors].
And I think you have some very good comments, too. I myself had wondered what was difficult about finding the Q&A, given the table of contents. But I forgot a bout that by the time I’d finished reading the draft….
229- I know it’s probably too late to add anything now, but I’d like to add a quote. I think that, in 2006, I learned things from Muse that were inresting and didn’t treat me like a little kid. Now… it does. It’s very off putting.
I’m 11, mind you, so this will actually make a difference.
I have received my October Muse and no longer feel any need to bother the editors.
231–my parents ahve mine (apparently they got it around Monday) but I have het to receiv eit here (that is, they have yet to forward it)
231, 232- You mean November/December Muse, don’t you? Or do you? *is confused*
233–no, I definitely mean October. It finally arrived back home around a week ago. November won’t be there until at least mid-november.
228-1. Not sure what to do about that. Maybe I’ll have time later.
2. Changed.
3. Not even in the letter. Don’t know where you found it. Maybe it was in an older version?
4. Deleted.
235–3. bullet point one under point 3.
234-Oh. Poor you.
237–thanks.
Oohhh, wow. I missed a whole lot, didn’t I?
Hmm, I don’t quite know where to start, other than the fact that- Wow, my [rather poorly articulated] quote wasn’t even part of the discussion, and yet has appeared in all the drafts. Huh.
‘Kay, after
quickly scrolling throughcarefully reading the thread, here are my views in a nice little list, though rather random order:1) We all miss the math page, but I for one don’t quite want it back. Ivars Peterson obviously cannot do it- but for me, even a replacement mathematician would not be the same at all. It’d just feel terrible seeing someone else’s name in the author’s spot.
2) I’ll have to say I agree with most of what Purple Panda says, in terms of the letter content. Fact check is important, and the Q&A complaint just seems rather superficial and/or lazy.
3) Heyy, I’ll sign the letter!
Rachel L. (Raynpho), age 14, reader for 5 years
4) Elizabeth Preston- I wouldn’t say you were “fanning the flames,” necessarily. Well, maybe. Personally, though, I value your comments just as much as all the other musebloggers’. I like seeing a MUSE editor’s point of view.
Plus, I think the flames are a bit beyond any fanning by now. >.<
5) HOLY CAKIN’ WUNG, I REALLY WANT SOME BACK ISSUES TO READ RIGHT NOW.
Stupid library system.
6) Also, and this is just for example of “quirky fun bits,”- remember the cat/dog/HPB/Elizabethan sagas? I’m not saying I want another full-blown war, [goodness no] but I just can’t imagine something like that happening in the current state of MUSE. Whether this is a positive or negative thing, you can decide for yourself, but…
236- Changed it to “in some time now.” Better, or should I try again?
239- ‘K, got your signature. And the Warres were ended in Master Baker’s article written in Elisabethan. We don’t want to start those again.
Ummm… where is everyone? We still need to decide which letter we will use, as well as get more signatures. Come back!
240- No no no, I don’t mean to say that I want more wars. I’m just attempting to point out the overall change in atmosphere of the magazine.
I rather enjoyed the wars…..good entertainment. and that elizabethan thing on the HPBs was flamablamablous….
243-
Well, it did take up quite a bit of magazine space up (time too, I suppose), and if you missed an issue, you were totally and completely lost within the whole plot. So, not practical.
But amusing, definitely.
It was a one-time thing, too. If we tried to re-create it, the whole thing would be a total failure.
Also, remember Milton Rupines? Did anyone ever figure out which anagram was his real name?
Yeah, I remember him….the LOTR hater…… I have no clue what his real name was, I never even decided if he really ahted LOTR, or if he was just faking…..
I’m not saying I agree with Milton, but here goes: Lord of the Rings wasn’t really that good.
I don’t see what all the hype is over it.
/gradster(1)/ – Secretary of Bureaucracy of the ASAP
246–They weren’t bad, but they weren’t my all time most favourite, either. they tended to be a bit slow in spots. I’m partial to Harry Potter, myself….
yeah harry potter rocks. by the way i do think muse might be trying to appeal to younger readers. I hope they stop soon because i love it just the way it is, and by the way i have since the age of six. i actually like reading up. also in a lot of magazines for kids that have history articles, the history articles arent objective or opinionated at all, and i think if muse starts gearing itself to younger readers it might stop printinting objective articles.
i love the idea of using old articles sometimes but i am starting to notice that all the articles seem to be book exerpts. they are mostly good articles,( in fact some of my favorite muse articles ever are book exerpts.) but still i would like some uniquely muse-ified articles. AND FEATHER ROCKS!
241 – I’m still here. What should we be doing right now with the letter?
248, 249-Who are you? Are you new?
So, um, anyway…. I like the version of the letter in post #192 best. It’s shorter than the other versions, and a bit more polite. ……Yeah.
250- We should be deciding whether we’ll use my version or Luna’s. Oh, and post 192 is sort of my newest version. There are a few minute changes, but I didn’t want to bother Rebecca by making her post them. It’s only a few tiny things which really don’t affect the letter that much. They’ve all been discussed since the time that version was posted. Once we’ve decided whose letter to use, we have to announce the letter to the general MuseBlog public, and get more signatures. I suspect that will require a thread of its own. So, let the voting for letters begin.
252–doesn’t matter to me.
252-See post 251…..
I vote for post 192, for Armada’s reasons.
253- Yeah, I don’t think either you or I should vote. Obviously, we’d be a bit biased. Okay, so here’s the current score:
Piggy – 3
Luna – 0
Does anyone think we should move the discussion to the Nov/Dec thread? Or should we ask for a thread just for the letter? It’s too dead and hard to find way back here.
256–I’d rather not move to the Nov/Dec thread, as I don’t have that mag, and don’t really want it to be spoiled for me. Of course, I still don’t have my october mag, either, but it’s already been spoiled to a point at which I don’t care anymore. Imight ahve it soon, though. My parents ahve my october one, and it will be included in my next care package. I think.
257- So, do you think a thread completely devoted to the letter would be justified? Or should we just try to convince people to come to this thread?
258–well, if the GAPAs were to comply, a new thread certainly would get more traffic, perhaps boosting the number of people signing/voting/giving constructive criticism. There is absolutely no doubt that this thread has died, now that we have moved into November!
(257, 258) Staying on this thread might be an aid to continuity, if anyone wants to look back at discussion or earlier versions. I’ve put a special link on Don’t Forget These Threads. See if that suits.
260- That’s a good point. Thanks.
I just saw the DFFT and signed:
speller73, age 13, subscriber for 6 years
I’d rather not use my name.
What’s there hasn’t been bugging me as much as what’s missing. In particular, I miss the math page. As someone who spends her summers/weekends/winter breaks doing math, I really enjoyed this page, and my friends and family had to hear my complaints when it went away.
Who is going to be sending in the final version of the letter? Piggy?
My signature list so far:
Daniel S. (Piggy), age 14, reader/subscriber for 4 years
The Man for Aeiou, age 13, reader for 4 years, subscriber for 3
Abby M. (Tesseract), age 14, reader for 4 years
(Rainbowstar), reader for 2 years, subscriber for 1 1/2
Michelle W. (Luna the Lovely), age 18, reader for 8 years
Elizabeth A. (Ebeth), age 17, reader/subscriber for 6 years
(ZestyLemon), reader/subscriber for 2 years
Sahar E.B. (Armada), age 12, reader/subscriber for 3 years
D.T.H (IBCF), age 15, reader/subscriber for 3 years
Nora R. (Nora the Violist), age 15, reader/subscriber for 7 years
(Vaxiddxvii), reader for 2 years
Samantha Z. (Kokonilly), age 12, reader for 3 years
Alice W. (Alice), age 15, reader for many years
Luke F. (muselover), age 11, reader for 2 years
Rachel L. (Raynpho), age 14, reader for 5 years
Speller73, age 13, subscriber for 6 years
So I need names from Rainbowstar, ZestyLemon, and Vaxi.
263- If we decide to use my version, then yes.
I think both versions need a lot of revision before they can be called “done.”
Personally, I don’t really see the point in sending the letter, as the people who will read it already read this thread.
I also think voting isn’t exactly the way to go about deciding which letter. Is Luna’s revision the one in post 130? I think it is way too quote-heavy (and Piggy’s quotes don’t blend in). Both of them have the exact same points, though, and I think a synthesis of both letters will work better.
My signature:
Miranda C. (Rainbowstar), age 11, reader for 2 years, subscriber for 1 1/2 years
May I please be referred to the current draft? I just want to read it, and I’m far too lazy to dig through the thread to find it.
267–Piggy’s is 192, mine (with your addition of footnotes isntead of parentheses) 170
268 – Thanks.
I think we actually shouldn’t bring back the Math Page with a different person than Ivars, because it simply wouldn’t be the same.
I also agree with Pan, but I think we should still send it in. Who knows, maybe they’ll publish it and heed our words!
I just saw the link here!
I would gladly contribute to the discussion, and potentially offer my signature. However, I have to get off the computer at the moment. I would appreciate your holding the letter and the decision until I return, which should be fairly soon, I assure you.
Thank you very much!
Red-tailed HAWK
270- Not a problem. We’re glad to have you.
Aaaaaaand… They’re gone. Poof. Disappeared. Walked right out. Thin air and all that. Are we not sending the letter? Or is someone other than me still fed up with Muse? Gah. I give up. All right, we’ll just abandon the letter. Requiescat in pace.
Don’t abandon the letter! We need to save Muse!
272-No! Send the letter! Save Muse!
273,4- Well, if we’re going to send the letter, we can’t just put it off. We have to choose a letter to send, make sure everyone agrees on it, get signatures, and send it. Right now we don’t even know whose letter to send; there are also many corrections which need to be made.
275 – We absoluetely do need to send the letter. GAPAs, can you please make an actual seperate thread for this, so that it gets more attention? We need more votes for the letters, etc.
275-Well, right now we have three votes for your version (the one in post#192), and zero for Luna’s. We could get more people to vote, or just leave it at that. I have a feeling that the people whose signature we haven’t gotten already probably don’t want to use their real name. What kind of corrections?
If you’re determined to complain, I don’t understand why everyone seems to think that one big protest letter would have more impact than a lot of individual ones.
278–um, I wouldn’t exactly call it “complaining”, per se…..
279, 278 – Well, it’s sort of complaining, but really we’re just explaining the changes we’ve noticed and requesting a change. So it’s really more attemping to stand up for the magazine than whining.
278-Stating, more like. But what are you saying, exactly?…… That we should all send letters to Muse? Oh, good suggestion, Robert! Let’s do that!
Be careful what you say on MB……. it may get interpreted.
278–I suppose it’s sort of like when somebody has a–oh, what’s the word?–the government (or other organization) wants to implement some law or something, and a person goes around collecting signatures on a (I forget the word) and then they show it to demonstrate that the mass public is against the new proposition, and the more signatures, the better–it has much more force than if everybody individually complained……I don’t think I said that very well
282~ A petition? I believe that’s the word. I’m probably wrong though.
I’ll write on my own when I can sit down and put what I think on a piece of paper, but for now I’d like to be left out of the major mailing……..I’ll read what you have to say (please tell me where it is so I can find it) but untill then I’ll remain on my own.
282 – A petition, Luna? ;D
283, 284–yup, i do believe that was the word I was looking for! I knew it started with a “p”……
/gradster(1)/ — regarding your request, can you not see the document? Or did you want editing access? If the latter, you can send a revised version to gapamail (gapa at musefanpage dot com).
281- As Emerson once said, “To be great is to be misunderstood.”
135- you mean the one about the blue prints of the brooklyn bridge. I thought that one was absolutely fascinating! I loved it.
123- Ms. Preston: I really respect that you have read every one of these threads since you came. As a muser who rarely visits this thread and who, even then, can’t be bothered to read all the posts, I find that you do this quite endearing. It’s good for everyone to know that you are hearing their side. You won’t be getting any hate from me. After all, we’re all musers here.
urgh. my eyes are going blury because I’m super tired and have been staring at this screen for a while. So here’s what I gotta say. no I have not read the letter because it is not in a format which is apealing for me to read + it is long and i’m tired. I actualy don’t mind the excerpts from books. I find most of the stuff pretty cool. except for the election issue. I appolagize but I have not even read that issue. American politics have no interest for me. so do not add me to the letter. I need to go read it.
I just read the letter. I think it is pretty good. Unfortunately I can’t add my signature. why? because I disagree with several points. I like that the muse mail is spread out across the magazine. It’s one of my favorite parts of the magazine so to have one part at the beginning and one part at the end seems like I’m getting twice the fun. I like to savour the letters by having a bit at the beginning and a bit at the end. Do you not feel that it is fitting for the magazine to open and close with remarks from it’s loving musers? evidently not. But I feel that way. I also like that the Q&A is in the middleish of the magazine. Think about it: you’re reading a long and you finnidh an article and what do you spy? the Q&A. hidden away for you to seek out and enjoy (like the heart of an artichoke). I did not understand why the letter said that the Q&A was almost impossible to find. There’s this page at the front of the magazine called the “table of Contents” where it lists the (wait for it) contents of the magazine (hence the name). If you have not figured out how to use the table of contents yet then mabe you should. So as much as I understand what you are saying. I disagree, I do not find anything wrong with escerpts from books, it just makes me want to learn more aboout the subject the article is addressing or where the mail pages and Q&A are placed. The mail pages have always been spread out and the Q&A has always been in the middleish.Mabe I’m the only one here who thinks the magazine is doing just fine, but that’s fine. At least there’s one.
Kagcomix.
You can defintly include my name. That’s:
Annie G, age 14, subscriber for 5 years
289- There’s nothing in the letter about the Q&A. And as for the mail pages, I would be fine if they were at the beginning and the end of the mag, as they once were, but nowadays they’re in the beginning and somewhere lost between a few obscure articles, not at the end. I’ll send the GAPAs a link to the newest version, because it must not have been updated in a while.
290- Got it. Thanks.
Piggy’s current revision of the Letter to Muse.
292 – Perfect. I think it well covers all the points we discussed. It might be a bit too long to print, though. They’d have to use all of both mail pages, which means they’d have to *shudders* cut it in half.
291- there was in the version I read. do you think I’m making that up?
Well, even if they don’t print it, at least it’ll get read.
I think that we should give it until the end of the month for more signatures and then send the letter–we can’t wait forever.
294- No, it was most likely just an unupdated version that you read. Don’t be so testy.
295- Well, if we want to do that, could the GAPAs make a thread just for getting signatures? The notice on the DFTT thread is good, but not everyone has noticed it. Just a thread for signatures, and probably for discussing the letter, because new signers won’t realize that this thread is the place of the letter’s origin. Thank you, you marvelous SCAMPs / OEADs / AKAs / GAPAs!
I noticed the notice on the DFTT. I whole heartedly agree with pretty much everything in the letter. To me, it seems like Muse still has the basics of everything it had, but has taken out a lot of the character in it. I would like to be put on the list of people. I have been subscribing about 2.5 years now, but some of my cousins who subscribe gave me some back issues, so I can see what you meant about changing.(I don’t know if you’ve sent it yet, but if you haven’t, please add me to the list.)
Psst, GAPAs, could we have a thread so that we can get this letter sent off pretty soon?
297- Real name and age?
GAPAs, are you purposely ignoring our requests for a new thread of this? If so, why? If not, please get us a new thread!
It’s perfect. Let’s send it.
I’ll sign it.
Ezekiel B. (Bookworm) Subscriber for 3.5 Years
I think the letter still has many flaws. I just skimmed the letter for structural errors, and the biggest problem I found was the quotes. They don’t fit!! They’re just stuck in there — and yes, I knoew they pertain to the subject in discussion, but they aren’t woven into the text and there doesn’t seem to be any reason why they are included. (By incorporating the quotes more carefully, their meaning will be understood.)
302- Well, the original versions of the letter were more in that style, but the letter was about five pages long, so I had to completely redo it. If you want to make your own version, be my guest. There’s an older version of the letter around post 104 or so with a bunch of quotes to use.
I’ve followed Rebecca’s suggestions in post 160 for the format of my letter. If you don’t like it, it’s her fault.
(302, 303) *accepts blame* My reasoning was that the quotations were so many and so long they were obscuring the point that was being made. There are certainly other approaches. And different ways to implement them. Since I had the impression that the aim was to include quotations from everyone who wanted to be included, this seemed like the most direct way to do that, while avoiding extensive editing.
What we need: First-person writing, conversational style, wit, enthusiasm, and brevity. And less excerpted articles.
And now this thread is open again? Okay, completely confused. I’ll check the Nov/Dec thread real quick.
So, maybe we should scrap the quotes and just use signatures? The letter would probably flow better that way…. Piggy, would you like to do the writing? Please?
307- At the moment, I’m hesitant to even send the letter. I think the discussion was enough. However, if, when we receive our issues, we find that there are no changes made, I will do so. Well, we’ll see what everyone else has to say. Could we have a generic Muse discussion thread for this topic instead of this old October one? Thanks.
308-Good point. I suppose we can wait for a week or two…. What changes would you be looking for? I suppose they would be subtle, at best….. Were you hoping for something obvious, like the two Muse Mail pages being stuck back together, or something more arbitrary, like the articles and margin Muses being less ‘cutesy’?
Second the motion for a separate thread for this discussion!
308- Well, just the things for which we’ve been asking. And apparently no one wants the mail pages back-to-back. We’ll just have to see what it’s like when we get it.
A motion for a new thread has been proposed and seconded. We will now vote on it. All in favor of a new thread please rise. All opposed. All abstaining. The motion passes with a 2-0-0 ratio. We will now go to the new thread.
And so you may.
Would someone please help me? For my science project bibliography I need the name of the author of The Locked Door and my rogue little brother has stolen my Muse and now I can not find it. Please look in your October Muse and find me the name of that author or I shall send my pineapple devouring cows to attack the blog.
312 – Malcolm Gladwell, I think.
312, 313 – Yes, it’s Malcolm Gladwell. If your project is related to the article, you might want to look at Gladwell’s book called Blink. (Pretend that was in italics; I don’t know how to do that fancy HTML business.)
[HTML Gnome to the rescue. *bows*]
Thanks very much!
Wow. Thanks, HTML gnome!
Oh, and italics is (i)italic words here(/i) but put <> in place of ( )
How’s it going, EP? I hope you don’t hate us too much.
192-Well, either you can decide to be “stretching the truth”, or one thing needs to be altered. The “agreed by all” thing has got to go. Sorry. I don’t agree. I like the fan mail pages the way they are.
The locked door was awesome. after i read it i went out and bought blink.
Haven’t the fan mail pages always been separate? I think I do like them better that way.
Other then that, I must say that I like the letter much better then its original form. However, I don’t think we should send it. EP and the other editors have clearly used our feedback, even without sending the letter, so I don’t quite see what impact sending it would have.
321- Yeah… we sorta agreed on that quite a while ago. A good month and a half anyway. But it’s all right. I forgive you.