Politics, religion, and anything else that might require an extra dose of civility.
Hot Topics, v. 2006.1
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Closed; continued on “Hot Topics, v. 2006.2”
Politics, religion, and anything else that might require an extra dose of civility.
Comments are closed.
Hey wow! Possible first post peoples…fingers crossed…
Ok u people start arguing about something and i’ll tell u what i think…
*happy dance*
Mmmm, what to argue about….
trees!
no. ummmmmm…… gay marriage? animal rights? teacher unions vs charter skools?
oooo! the pledge! lets argue about that!
gay marriage is fine with me. I don’t really care one way or another. marriage is a personal thing. Animal rights i’m for, but not to the extreme. Treat them right, and don’t slaughter them needlessly, but i’m not going vegetarian. I happen to like chicken. Ask my mom about the skools, that’s what she does for a living. And I don’t understand anything she says when she talks about it. The pledge…what about the pledge? you mean the “under god” bit? make it optional. If you want to say it go ahead, if you don’t believe in god don’t say it but don’t make an issue of it. Actually i don’t consider the pledge such a big deal in general. It’s just a symbol of patriotism. If the pledge went like “We rock. Fear us. All hail the U.S. I’ll obey my country” that’d be saying pretty much the same thing. Almost. Anyhoo. Most kids don’t even know what the pledge means anyway, they just say it. Which is bad. baaaaaaaad. brainwashing alert! AAAAAH!!!!!!! yeah.
Gay marriage – While I’m definitely for it, I recognize that not everyone else is, so I think that churches should be able to choose as individual places whether or not they want to allow gay people to get married within them. I think it’s stupid that there’s actually any debate about this at all, as love is love and the gender of the other person shouldn’t matter.
Animal rights – Against-ish. I totally realize that we should protect the animals, etc, but it’s kind of sickening how people are so keen to save the animals whilst people are starving next door to them. People should come first, no matter what. Animals shouldn’t be treated badly, but they shouldn’t be protected if there’s a person who could use the same treatment. Note: I’m a vegetarian, but not because of animal rights, because I don’t like how processed and filled with chemicals meat is.
Pledge – Having never gone to a school where they say the pledge, it’s kind of strange for me to hear all this talk about it. Still, I think that the ‘under God’ part should be cut out. If a group of twinky-Pagans put ‘under all the Gods and Goddesses’ into the pledge, everyone else would have a fit and make them take it out. Church and state should be seperated, which means no religion in school unless it’s a World Religion class or a religious school.
(I don’t really think Pagans could get that in there, but whatever.)
Okay. I have a few problems with the pledge.
1. We shouldn’t be required to say it every day. Saying the pledge is a serious commitment, folks. Saying it every single day at the beginning of school trivializes the commitment, and many kids don’t understand what it means, anyway. For instance, how many times have you heard a first-grader say “one nation invisible”? You could even argue that it’s morally wrong to require people to say something they don’t fully understand.
2. “under God” is an identification of the US as an officially religous nation. It says that the US believes in a single, male god as opposed to many gods, a goddess, or no gods. Imagine for a second that it went, “One nation, under no god”. Now imagine the upcry from the religious folks along the lines that “OMG IT SAYS THAT THE US DOESN”T BELIEVE IN A GOD THAT”S UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!111!1”. It works the same way both ways. It doesn’t matter if it’s identifying the US as a nation that believes in your religion- it is still an establishment of religion by the government. And, in fact, it was not part of the original pledge, which was written by a Baptist minister. It was inserted in the 1960ishs to distinguish us from the officially athestic USSR.
The “under God” part also weakens the pledge. The religious can view it as qualifying the pledge so it only applies when the nation is concurring with their perception of God’s will, and athiests can argue that since God does not exist, “one nation under God” does not exist and so the pledge for them is null and void.
It also wrecks the meter but that’s not that important.
3. Um… I had another point but I forgot it. Did you know that the pledge is an anagram of “Epicede to pall indigence: I salute the fair dollar of the free capitalist economy, and the biotic need which it funds: a big gold ingot glittering, with a job, fuel, assets, land and revenue for all.”? This trivia is brought to you courtesy of Wikipedia.
Gay Marriage- Zallie, took the words right out of my mouth. :3 I agree completely. I could never understand why anyone would hate another just for their sexuality. It’s rather childish, if you ask me.
Animal Rights: I suppose my slightly misanthropic personality makes me care for animals more- but I refuse to believe that animals should be treated any worse than myself or anyone else- they’re living, breathing creatures, not trash for you to kick around.
Fur trade is disgusting and unforgivable. There is no longer the need for it- at least in most countries. I’m sickened at the thought that ANYONE would want to wear a carcass on their shoulders and call it fashion. As a note: Jeniffer Lopez’s company treats animal cruelly- thus I despise. : D
Pledge- People are forgetting it’s the kids who are saying it, and I’m guessing most kids don’t care. But Church and State should be separated. This actually makes me wonder why no one’s complained about how Congress starts everyday: with a prayer.
Glad to see this thread again!
Oh, and debate. Not argue, debate. xD Just letting y’all know.
gay marriage- heck, marry whoever you like. i don’t care.
animal rights- i agree with lizzie, people are more important. but we shouldn’t have this total disreguard for animals, they live here too!
pledge- still not sure
Yeah, really, I don’t see why the government is refusing to allow gay citizens to get married. I mean, there isn’t any legal reason that I can see not to allow it, and the government shouldn’t allow the views of various religious groups to rule what they do..
I have a friend who doesn’t say the ‘under God’ part at all when she was in grade-school. She’d either shut her mouth for that part, or say ‘under the goddess’ under her breath.
Gay marriage: On a physical point, I think all ‘relationsships’ are gross, but that’s just my female adolescance speaking. On a mental level, if two people fall in love it is your right to get married.
Animal rights: I’m all for them. I am not personally a vegetarian, but hunting for sport is immoral in my opinion. If you need food or warmth, you can kill if it is humane. However if you don’t need it animals have as much right to life as we do.
pledge: not in public schools! I don’t think it is constitutional to make possible athiests or paegens say they belive in God.
How ’bout gun control and weapons? I don’t belive in, like, machine guns for citizens but a small defensive handgun should be okay. If the registration thingie worked it would be great. Unfortunately it doesn’t.
I personally am going to go armed if I can– not with a gun but with an entirely defensive weapon– like pin knives or a spiked gauntlet. (no, I am not making these up. They exist and I have seen them used.)
the pledge isn’t required is it? if it is i agree that it shouldn’t be. i didn’t know it was required though…
yeah separation of church + state. all for it. Which goes for gay marriage too.
is there anybody here disagreeing yet? I need somebody to argue with…it’s more fun that way…
Hm. I think people own guns because it makes them feel big. If you have a stalker or something, I understand, but otherwise, it’s like saying you plan on killing someone.
Pepper spray all the way.
Has anyone read ‘Nothing But the Truth”? scary novel ’bout free speech and the pledge of alliegance.
Naw, pepper spray is boring. Someday, I dream of a wrist sheath. *sighs longingly* Although the portrayals of old ladies and Mace or pepper spray are often very funny. Madagacar, peoples. And Bloom County.
The pacifist in me says no guns for anyone other than the military. I don’t agree with hunting for sport, really, but as people need guns for that and it isn’t illegal, I think that there should be strict laws about what the people with those are allowed to shoot.
Guns=not neccessary. At all.
Hunting: THere’s no better way to enjoy nature than by taking the life out of it.
Honestly. And I read that book, ’twas good/disturbing.
Em- (#12) that was Zallie.
And hunting is stupid. Although most early conservationists were interested in conserving nature so they could shoot it…
Hey!!!! The right wing religious nut is sticking her head in the door, and going to offer a few comments.
Gay Marriage-This is rather complicated. I don’t believe that people of the same sex really fall in love. I think homosexuallity is a sin, and God wouldn’t create people ingrained with a sin. There are also studies that indicate people can change their sexual orientation, if they really have the desire to. But, hey, if they want to, gay people can sleep with whoever they want to. It’s not my business to tell people not to sin. But as far as marriage goes…calling it marriage looks like an endorsment to me. I don’t think we should say that this is normal and acceptable when there are a lot of people who think differently. If you want me to, I can elaborate on this.
Animal Rights- There’s no such thing. You can’t give rights to an animal, since animals do not have the ability to think, reason, and love. But we shouldn’t be cruel to them. We definitely need standards when it comes to not being cruel to animals. But I see nothing wrong with eating animals.
Pledge- This may shock you, but I’m against “under god”. It’s true, that is endorsing a religion. Atheists have as much right to practice their religion as I do, and forcing kids to acknowledge a god is not right.
Gun Control- It’s true that there is no reason for guns now. None. But by this point in time, guns have become so much a part of our world, that there would be no way to get rid of them. If you outlaw guns, people will still be able to get them. All that outlawing guns would do is take them out of the hands of law abiding citizens, but criminals would still have them. That’s kind of what made them criminals in the first place, they didn’t obey the law, and they won’t in relation to guns. There are a lot of stories, studies, and examples I could tell about that prove it’s a good idea to let the public at large have guns.
That’s my two cents.
How do you know animals can’t think, reason, or love? If they can’t do any of those things then there are a lot of strange coincidences relating to animals…I think animals can definitely love and reason. Thinking depends on how you define it…
I’m fine with hunting if you use what you kill. But i really hate it when people go hunting and just hang heads on the wall or something. That seems really wasteful to me.
Alright. MG, I ‘d like to know exactly why “people of the same sex really fall in love”. And why it’s a” sin”. No one of an opposing view point has ever explained that to me.
Animals can love. Why else would they stick around? Food yes, but there are herd animals who need companionship. Horses, for example.
I think gay/lesbian people really fall in love, in the same way other people fall in love. I don’t now much about the religious part of this, MG, maybe you know more, where does it say that homosexuality is a sin?
I agree w/ you that animals don’t think of feel the same way people do, and what people have is special. I still think that animals should get rights. People eat animals, thats natural. Its okay when you leave animals in their natural habitat to ignore their rights. But when people use animals for work or as pets, its more important for them to have rights. Their are people that hoard animals, or mistreat them, and the animals are really miserable.
I think that when animals mate, they are simply following their animal instincts. But animals are also capable of love,( not in a sexual way) between themselves, and people too. humans on the other hand, mate because of love not instinct, and there is a fine line between that and the other kind of love. this brings up strange ideas about gay marriage.
Which part of homosexuality is a sin, out of curiosity? Is it sinful for someone to fancy someone of their own gender or for someone to be in a serious relationshop with someone of the same gender? Both?
Actually, the brains of homosexuals are different, and, for instance, boys with more older brothers are more likely to be gay. Additionally, it doesn’t actually matter if they choose to be homosexuals or if it’s inborn- marriage is not a religious thing, it’s a legal one. There are tons of legal benefits that are gained from it. Several particular RELIGIOUS groups believe that homosexuality is a sin. However, because of the 1st amendment establishment clause, governments don’t operate based on the agendas of particular religious groups, or shouldn’t. Taking rights, including the right to the legal protection that marriage entails, away from any group is discrimination. You couldn’t say, for instance, that African-Americans aren’t allowed to marry because the KKK is opposed to it, and “we should[n’t] say that this is normal and acceptable when there are a lot of people who think differently” and it’s an “endorsement [of sin]”. It’s the same way with homosexuals. Just because one group thinks it is wrong to give another group rights doesn’t mean that it’s right to deny them those rights.
Homosexuality is all about enviroment, and choice. Lizzie’s example of boys with a lot of older brothers, enviroment. Not something they were born with. Homosexuals can do whatever they want to, and I’m not opposed to it. But calling it marriage would be a huge step, for hundreds of years marriage has been defined as between one man, and on woman. Changing that would be actually saying that we believe homosexuality is natural, and truly marriage. I think we really need to evaluate what that would mean before we do it.
There are plenty of places in the Bible where homosexuality is called wicked, perverse, and unnatural. I think it was in reference to Sodom and Gamorah, but somewhere it said “and men lost their desire for women, and gave over to their perverted desire for one another.” Several places it makes it clear that God views it as a sin, and it’s a perversion of what He intended sex and love to be. Christians believe that the sin is in having sex with someone of the same sex. Of course, you can’t legislate morality, so I’m fine with whoever sleeping with whoever. People have a right to sin. I’m not trying to stop that. It’s making it a legal thing that I have a problem with.
Hmmm, maybe animals do love. Kind of sketchy on that. But they don’t have souls, and they don’t have a set of standards that determines what is right and wrong. Humans operate by a sort of universal law of what is acceptable, animals have none. Think about this; the young, the sick, the elderly. To humans, these are three groups of people that must be protected, and kept safe. These are also the three sets that animals choose when they go hunting. The fact that animals feel no desire, beyond instict for the species, to protect the weakest proves we’re better than them. But we must be kind to them. I kind of agree that hunting of sport isn’t the greatest thing in the world to do. But I see nothing wrong with hunting in general, or eating meat.
Lizzie (27) – I’m totally with you on that one.
Yes, it’s environment in the fact that it’s caused by a change of chemicals in the womb…
Actually, marriage hasn’t been defined as between one man and one woman for hundreds of years. It’s called bigamy, folks.
Okay, so, MG, can you specify exactly why you have an objection to making it a legal thing? I keep getting lost in your arguments.
MG-how exactly do you define a “soul”?
I don’t think that many people are gay out of choice. I don’t know much about it, but yeah.
I’m not sure why marriage is a legal thing. It started with religion didn’t it? I think it should be a religious thing…
For example MG you used the Bible as an argument. Well the Bible is religious, not legal. There are probably things you can’t do according to the Bible that you can do legally. Can’t think of any off the bat but then i’m not the most devout bible studier…
Although I do think if you want to go into the religious thing that a lot of religion’s about acceptance. I don’t see why that shouldn’t include homosexuals. And acceptance is one bit of religion that you see all over, not just in the religions that use the Bible. It’s preached for a reason. It prevents mindless violence against people who just happen to be different. Or it’s supposed to anyway. And would if it was practiced more often…
ok. this will probably be completely of whatever anyone’s talking about, but my computer is being stupid and i cant read anyone else’s comments. so its not my fault, and if you want to lynch me you have to find me first mwa-ha-ha-ha-ha. ;^)
this is very dangerous territory, but i have to tread on it sometime. homosexuality is not good. that’s all there is. i don’t want to offend anyone or anything, but that is just how it is, and gay marriage is kinda an oxymoron. marriage is very clearly a union between a man and a woman, and if i had a bible with me besides this king james with the reeeally tiny print i would list the verses that say so. no harm intended- just my views.
Gay marriage- Maybe God didn’t want gay/lesbian people to fall in love originally, and maybe He thinks it’s a sin, but the government should not be ruled by the questionable opinions of God. I mean, the Bible doesn’t say anything about global warming or gun control, but these are serious issues that need to be dealt with. And besides, when the government denies people rights based on what their God may or may not believe, that’s called establishment of religion. And that’s against the law.
Pledge- God doesn’t belong in the Pledge. I’ll use the argument so many other bloggers have used in this case. Let’s say that somehow Muslims managed to make it “under Allah.” Can you imagine the uproar that it would create? People who believe in a single god called “God” are not entitled to having their religion semi-endorsed in a government document any more than anyone else. It would be so much simpler for people who believe in God just to think that our country in under Him rather than making everyone else say it too.
New issue: Religious tolerance. My most annoying cousin, who came up to OR for Christmas, started bashing atheists, Muslims, Jews, Catholics, and anybody else who isn’t a devout Protestant. (I obviously have a problem with this, since I’m some sort of Protestant, but not particularly devout or sectarian.) SOOO, I start up on this rant about how God, Jesus, and most prophets of other religions wanted us to be tolerant and kind to people who don’t necessarily share our views. That does NOT include telling them they’re going to hell, giving them fewer rights, or forcibly converting them. I swear, sometimes it’s hard to believe that we’re related. He’s the type who says he can “understand the point” to the Spanish Inquisition. Not my kind of person.
hmm… i didn’t know that. i am enlightened.
I agree with MG about gay mariage and homosexual relationships being a sin, but would it really help the situation if gay marriage was illegal everywhere? I mean, that would mean that homosexuals could not legally marry, but the real problem is a sinful world. Trying to teach religious morals apart from religion, and in this case, apart from Christ, is a loosing battle. Why should people think that something is wrong if they don’t believe in the reason that it is wrong? There are government crimes and there is sin. Some of the deeds in question, such as murder, are commonly shared, but the two are still different. A government crime is something which is socially unacceptable or will disrupt a stable government (not that ours is always stable.). A sin is an offense toward God, although it is often offensive to others as well. I think that gay marriage is an offense toward God, and it does not harm things politically or socially, except that it draws people away from God. But like you said MG, people have the right to sin. That is God-given freewill. Legal or illegal, homosexuals would still be homosexual and straights would still be straight. Just so you know, I’m currently undecided about the issue of whether it should be legal. I was questioning myself there as much as I was questioning you. On a lighter note, I think animals reason and love more than we think they do, but humans are still created in the image of God and animals are not. That does not mean that we are to treat them badly. We were put here, among other things, to care for the world. Funny how religion works it’s way into every issue, eh? *is bombarded with pies*
Honestly, I’m not really clear on the issue of homosexual marriage. I have kind of a foggy idea about where I stand, but it’s one of those issues I can’t get really fired up about, and I intend to let other people do the arguing in the real world. It’s not one of those things I’m all that interested in, so I’m officially backing off the topic. I’m going on the record as saying I think it’s a sin, and a choice, but I’m not sure about whether gay marriage should be legal or not. There is actually something of a debate about this in the Christian community.
I define a soul as the part of a human, separate from the body, that lives eternally and and leads to spiritual understanding. The soul is what makes people like God, we are able to feel things on a spiritual level.
Religious tolerance….that’s kind of a hard subject. I’m personally of the opinion that all non-Christians are going to hell, if you don’t mind my being blunt. I’m actually not too sure about Catholics. There are some strange points of dogma there and stuff, but I’m not sure if it matters in the great scheme of things. But really, I’m called to love everyone. That’s really what Christians are called to do. Now, what that entails is somewhat sketchy. If any of you have felt like Christians were pushy towards you, I’ll tell you right now that either they were not true Christians, or it was born out of love. We do that because we care about you, it’s just that a lot of people don’t know how to express it. You don’t have to believe what I believe, but I think you’ll live a terrible life and go to hell if you don’t. That’s really not as judgemental as it sounds. You guys can believe what you want to believe, but I don’t have to be happy about it. But I should love you no matter what. It’s hard to know where the line is as far as acceptance goes. And, contrary to popular belief, Jesus did not say much about accepting all beliefs. He talked about how God accepted all who came to Him, but that just means that He doesn’t discriminate among those who are truly repentant and come to Him (in this sense, Christians). What other religions say about it is rather invalid, since Christians believe those religions are lies, and shouldn’t be listened to. It’s hard to explain. I hope I didn’t sound really judgemental and condemning of people. It’s not that I’ve made up a set of rules, this is how my religion thinks it is, and I truly wish it was a different way, but I have to believe it’s not.
Well, homosexuality wouldn’t draw people away from God if the churches didn’t push them away..
Marriage is a legal thing in that you get the right to be consulted in an emergiancy (sp), get income tax benefits, etc etc etc and it’s much much safer for any children. There is also a religious aspect to some marriages in that you marry in the eyes of the church also or something, but marriage is also a government thing. I don’t care if a particular church wants to deny homosexuals the right to marry; that’s their right, and their loss. The Bible may define marriage as being between a man and a woman; however, the government is not run by the Bible. Or the Torah. Or the Koran. Or the numerous other religious writings. To deny basic rights to any particular group on the basis that some religious writing says it is bad is government establishment of religion. Which, as AC said, is against the law.
Marriage has not always been defined as it is nowadays, you know. It used to be that people of different races couldn’t marry (“No! A black/red/latino/asian/blue/purple person marrying a white person is clearly a sin! It’s unnatural! Marriage is defined as between two people of the same race!”) Women were basically property (“Well, I’ll trade my daughter for a herd of cows and some gold”), and I’d say that those marriages were more business transactions than about love.. Also, it hasn’t always been between one man and one woman either- some groups, it was between one man and one woman and another woman and her sister and oh yeah this one over here too etc. So really, to say that marriage has been between one man and one woman for centuries is rather missing the point, I think.
Ah, well, a conservative is someone who admires radicals centuries after they’re dead.
-nods- I’m glad we can talk like civilized people here! But here’s my two cents, in more rant form. Possibly unfair. No one take offense. My mind is dislodged.
I know none of you are saying this, but I am sick and tired of people talking about homosexuality like it’s some sort of disease. All religious predispositions aside, what real reason does anyone have to hate gays? Is there any reason? No. There isn’t. And when you step into the territory of calling names,making snide remarks, you’re going down the path to hate crime. Hate for gays is basically racism.
Do you realize that people have been killed, simply because of they’re homosexual? Beaten to death, or worse? No one thinks about that. No one acknowledges that. Instead, you see wrinkled, disgusted faces saying “Ewwww, that’s gross.” or “Gay people are stupid!”
It’s beyond me. It’s simply BEYOND me how any person could in ANY way justify hating someone for their sexual orientation.
Love isn’t something you can define with laws or anything else- it simply is.
What someone does woth their life is no one’s busisness but their own.
I am not advocating hate. What people do to homosexuals sometimes is appalling and wrong. One thing that the church has gone too far in is their treatment for homosexuals. Many times there is an astonishing lack of love, and that is something that true Chrstians, me included, are not happy about. Of course, we believe they were not really born that way, that they made the choice. But I am not wanting hatred of gays, I am not wanting beatings. I’m not even sure if I want them to get married or not.
I’m not saying you MG- you’re very fair in that you’ll hear other opinions and such. But I’m just saying, I know there are people like that, and it really just makes me ashamed of the human race thinking of it.
hmm….i’m not sure about heaven…it sounds logical that you have to believe in it to go to it..but i don’t think it’s limited to just christians. it’s hard to argue this, since it’s all based on faith, but i just don’t see god like that. Like take Dead Guy X. DGX is not christian, but he’s acted like a christian in that he was always helpful, kind, and friendly, he listened to others, he helped the poor…in short, he was a great person who just didn’t happen to be a christian. So say god’s reviewing the case of DGX (i don’t think god needs to “review the case” but for the sake of argument let’s say he does) So god says, “hmm…DGX…good guy, nice to people, etc. etc…ok he’s clear.” Then angel #457 (again, god doesn’t need to be reminded of anything but just for our purposes) clears his/her/it’s throat. “yes?” god asks. “Um…DGX is not a christian sir.” “Oh dear,” god says, “well i guess he has to go to hell then.”
I dunno that just doesn’t seem like god to me. It just sounds wrong somehow. And that’s all i’ll say about this cuz like i said it’s really not arguable…
i agree with you axa. i also hate it when people call other people gay for no reason, not because they are gay, but because they are weird. have you heard people say ‘that guy is gay’ of ‘those people are gay’ like its a bad word? did you know that gay used to mean ‘happy’ in old books?
why does the bible say that gayness is a sin? does it just say it is perverted?
*gasp* virginia is trying to make gay marriage illegal!
okay religious tolerance. i think people should tolerate other people no matter what their religion, race, or lifestyle. even if you think its wrong, as long as it isn’t physically harming other people you should tolerate it. there are many, many different cultures. every group of people came up with a a different culture and religion, and you shouldn’t say that any of them are ‘wrong’ or that they will go to hell just because they didn’t come up with they same religion as you.
and in response to your post Ebeth, all of the religious peoples will say “But you can’t be a good person if you don’t believe in god!” to which i say: isn’t god that little voice inside of you that tells you what is right and wrong? So if you believe the little voice is right then you believe in god?
I don’t say that and i’m religious. You can be a good person if you don’t believe in god. It’s possible that you could even go to heaven if you don’t believe in god. I think god gives us religious people a head start on being good though.
here’s the deal about heaven, ladies and germs (no offense
)
the fact is that if you aren’t a Christian and don’t believe in ~*God*~ or ~*Jesus*~ you aren’t going to get to heaven. yet i don’t believe you go to h**l though. i think that if you were like really really nice but didn’t believe in ~*God*~ then you might just stay in a sub-heaven until ~*Jesus*~ comes back to save the rest of us back down here on Earth. and i do NOT think that there was an evolution at all and we are definately positivatly absolutely NOT related to monkeys or any type of primate!!!! or cavemen….
just off-topic, hell when it’s a place isn’t a swear word, so u don’t have to bleep it out.
o purlease can we’s talks about somfing elses?
…
did i just say that?
oh dear.
ok, didn’t anyone see that show friday? the one where they talked about how horrible some skools are? cuz i want to talk about that.
didn’t see the show but we can talk about that if u want…
Em, why don’t you start by explaining what it said?
*clapclap* hear hear! yay for the GAPA!
is that what we were just talking about on the music+lyrics thread? or something like that?
well hmm.. lots to say. okay.
they talked about skools in north carolina (i think) and how some of them were really bad, and the teachers didn’t really care. But you had to go to whateer skool that was in your district. There was this one person he (the guy hosting the show) interviewed that said their teachers were helping him cheat, just to get them to the next grade level. The guy said that schools would be better if there wasn’t a monopoly, and more & better skools were offered. The governer proposed this thing where parents got money to send their kids to private skools, but it was turned down. He also interviewed he skool superintenedent (it might have been something else)who said that the skools were just fine, and getting better, etc.
Then he went to this place where they have a teachers union that has all these rules for hiring teachers and making sure they are paid enough and not fired without cause. But there were teachers that were sending sexual emails that they couldn’t fire because there were about a million (seriously, there were) steps they had to take to fire someone, so there were all these teachers who couldn’t teach just sitting in this room all day and getting paid lots of money. Then they looked at a charter skool, where they hired really good teachers and fired the bad ones and it was a really good skool.
mmm… i think there was more. it was on something like 2020 something… i think they said they would do another one this friday.
If you can’t go to heaven when you don’t believe in it, does that mean you can’t go to hell when you don’t believe in that either?
That was me being annoying. Forgive me.
There are plenty of non-Christians who believe in God, or a god. Just because they don’t believe that Jesus was God, or the son of God, or whatever he was (I’m not too clear on this, and I think different sects have arguments about this, too,) but if they lived their lives better than a lot of people who say they’re Christian, why should they be going to hell, or sub-heaven, or wherever? It seems wrong to me, somehow. Now, I don’t claim to know a lot about religion. I don’t claim to know anything at all about religion. But it just seems wrong that a god who’s supposed to stand for compassion and kindness and “thou shalt not kill” “love thy neighbour” etc., should send good, innocent people to hell just because they don’t believe in him, or a single vision of him.
Sorry if this offended or confused any religios types. Corrections to religious references welcome for this unenllightened one.
and i don’t pretend to know anything about anything at all.
42!
marrige is a religious thing but also a legal thing. The religious part (gay marrige is bad) should not be in the legal part. People have a right to believe anything the want to (i am atheist so i think hell/heaven dont exist) but how can you think that just because someone is not of your religion that they will go to hell (or even just not heaven)? Most religious people thonk something like that and all of them have to be wrong but one right? that doesnt make sense. gay/lesbian peoples brains are different???????????thats like saying “blak peoples brains are smaller because they are stupid and inferior to whites” its the same brain people. they just choose to like different people. my parents friends are gay and there totally normal. there not wierd or wrong or peverted. they just like different people.
animal rights?
hnting as a sport is stupid but theres nothing wrong with furs. guns: totally unnesesary.how would criminals get guns if they didnt exist to be bought? same with weapons.why would you give a civilian a samurai sword or an ak-47? thats asking for murder or accedental murder.
well, i think they meant that that part of their brains that makes them attracted to people is different, not that they are weird.
Right to bear arms-some amendment or other…
the answer is personal safety/uprisings. Basically we say “ok if you think we’re wrong and we’re being idiots and not listening-shoot us.”
Or something like that…
Ok not exactly. But you get the idea…
Fur is bad. There’s no way around it. Animals live in tiny cages, aren’t fed or cared for properly, then skinned, possibly alive, for their coats. All over the world, things beyond cruel are being done: baby seals beaten to death with pikes, beavers drowned in under water prisons, conditions so poor, so terrible, you can’t even imagine.
Fur trade is unregulated. This means there are no rules. Lethal injections, that result in excruciating, slow painful deaths? Fine. Throwing animals on the ground until their necks brake? Sure! In fact, there are manuals that detail how to properly break an animal’s neck. And electrocution is good too- after all, we don’ want the fur singed!
I’m sorry, but don’t you ever say there’s nothing wrong with fur.
I think a solution to the fur issue would be to boycott big fur companies and go find people who shoot ONLY the animals they need and buy from them food, clothes, etc. Whatever you can get out of an animal. So essentially you go buy an animal. Then only the animals needed are killed, and nothing is thrown away. Of course, it’s not always easy to find somebody…
umm… peoples?
……..
ok fine then, but watch the next one friday so we can talk about it.
Down with fur! Really, it’s unecessary and I can’t see why someone would want a dead animal draped over themselves. If someone really needs fur to keep warm, they can go kill the animal themselves; those awful fur farms and poachers are completely unecessary. There was a story in the news about a guy who caught a mouse live in his house, and then threw it into a fire alive! How hideous! Do you know what happened? The mouse ran back into his house after catching on fire and the whole thing burned down. That’s what he gets!
Yeah I heard that story. It’s not true. The mouse was dead. The fire just spread to his house.
Still, nowadays we can make fake fur! We don’t need to kill little animals, there are other ways to keep warms now, and you can even get the look artificially.
i gots a fake fur coat.
its comfy…
still, if you’re somewhere like the arctic or something, real fur’s probably warmer. But yeah i agree ykn, if you need it, kill it yourself. AND USE THE WHOLE BLEEPING THING! i hate it when people just take the fur or the meat and leave the rest…
Jewish beliefs about Heaven and Hell: Jews believe that there is no Hell in the usual term of the word. When you die you immediately enter Gehennom, where you atone for your sins. No matter what your beliefs or how good you were in life, you go there. The worse you were, the longer you spend there, but the most time you can spend is 11 months before you get to Heaven, which is a place of perfection, happiness, and contentment.
Non-Jews are not penalized for not beliving in God, unless they worshipped Moloch or something and killed thier children. They just have to follow the Seven Commandments of the Sons of Noah (Shivah Mitzvot B’nai Noach), which are basic things like don’t steal, don’t kidnap, rape, murder, etc.
Souls: I don’t know if animals have souls. Maybe they have thier own souls. I belive that God made the animals for us, to help us survive, but not to dispose of as we like. They are God’s creatures and we have no right to be cruel to them. Anyway, the soul (Neshamah in hebrew) is the spiritual part of you, the part that makes you you. When you die your soul leaves your body, leaving behind it the urge to sin. When Eve ate from the tree of knowlage, she got the urge to son, not the knowlage. She always knew you could sin, it just held no temptation for her.
The Torah has strict rules against gay relationships. (I quot roughly) : “And a man shall not lie with a man, for that is an abomination before God…”
we belive in the capacity of humans to resist the Yetzer Harah, the drive to sin. If you are gay you should try to resist the impulse. However, I don’t think the state should be allowed to decide this. After all, it’s an issue of ‘good’ and ‘evil’ which are strictly religious concepts and should take no part in the govornment. I don’t know it non-Jews are prohibited from gay marrige or not, but my dad is close friends with a Rabbi who is gay. This man is very pure and learned, and he simply resists the impulses.
The Torah says a man cannot lie with a goat.
One of the Rabbis in my school says that gayness itself is not forbidden, only the act.
Rabbi S******t? He’s MY Rabbi!
boy that was weird.
I think the goat thingie is a no-brainer. Yurgh!
I think you’re missing the point on the fur industry; people aren’t using these animals for food- only for “fashion”. It’s disgusting.
blech
52. TPN: Of course I forgive you. WARNING LOTS ‘O OPINIONS TO FOLLOW!!!!!!!!! Getting into heaven, dispite popular opinion, is not at all based on actions. God is not the kind of god who would send good, innocent people to hell. Now everything would be just great and everybody would get to heaven except that there are no good, innocent people. C’mon, don’t tell me you’ve never done anything wrong. “All have sinned and fall sort of the glory of God.” Jesus is both God’s son and God. Yes, it’s confusing, but that’s the way it is. One God, three parts. God offers His forgivness of all sins, no matter how great or small, through the sacrifice of His son Jesus. In other words, Christ has suffered the price of sin, even though he was innocent, so that we don’t have to. If anyone choses not to accept His forgivness, that’s their choice. Also as part of this New Covanent (Christ’s sacrifice), all sins and all sinners are equal. There is no action that can make God love you any more or any less. An axe-murderer is equal to that guy who didn’t help that one old lady across the street. A homosexual is equal to a straight man/woman. Homosexuallity is no worse than any other sin, it’s just more obvious. So we should not look on homosexuals with scorn because we are all sinners, but we should try to help them overcome it. However, if someone refuses to admit that their homosexuallity is a sin, they are in denial. Still, though, we are all sinners and gays are no worse. So no one can get to heaven through their actions becasue their actions are sinful. The only way that anyone can get to heaven is if their sins are forgiven and the only way to have their sins forgiven is to accept God’s forgivness through Christ. So getting to heaven does not depend on believing in God, it depends on believing and accepting Christ as our Savior. Christ is God, so if you believe in Christ, you believe in God. You said diferent sects have different opinions on who Christ is and that is true. There are even some churches which claim to be Christian but do not believe that the Bible is true. I want to make it clear that that is not true Christianity and that is not what I believe. I absolutely believe that Christ is God and that the Bible is true. And now some supporting scripture that is probably useless as nobody except Christians would trust it. MG seems to be the only other Christian here (thanks MG! I’m not alone in this vast world of opinions!) and she’s gone on some speech/debate thing. Anyway, here goes. All these are from the gospels and are quotes of Jesus. “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” “[to disiples] He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me. But he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.” “He who is not with me is against me and he who does not gather with me scatters.” I’m sorry this is so long and I’m sorry if I sounded preachy/pushy/uncivil. I don’t mean to beat up anyone’s religion. I don’t know everything and I don’t pretend to. Let me know if I’m being any of the above undesirable characteristics.
egads. no more religion. please.
I have only this to say: If being homosexual is a sin, why would God make them that way?
You can’t answer that , because we don’t know why God does most things. People think that they do, but they don’t. The only way I would ever believe God thinks gays are sinners is if He told me personally. Otherwise, I’m afraid I will not budge.
*applaudes*
Axa (#70):
I hate to break it to you, but if God Himself came down to earth and started preaching, lots of people would still reject Him.
Wait a minute — that already happened once…
Sorry Moose, but you lost me when you said that Jesus=god and god’s son all at the same time.
D_Q- I’m just saying that HIs words are distorted to fit presonal opinions, and that’s not right.
She means that God is one God with three entities in Christianity.
The reason we keep bringing up religion is because, well, for religious people it is what we rely on and belive in.
Ah well. Personally I don’t think I’m going to Hell and I don’t think axe murder is on the same level, morally, as shoplift. But of course if I did I wouldn’t be Jewish and we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
So, what about genetic engineering?
I’m christian, but not as conservative as you and MG.
I’m hearing you ykm, but i still don’t think the only way to get to heaven is to believe in god. what you said about everybody being a sinner-that’s true, but the way to overcome it isn’t JUST believing in god, you have to SHOW it by trying to overcome your sins and trying to help others do so. And you can do that even if you don’t believe in god. If you’re doing that kind of stuff it shows that you at least believe in god’s message. Believing in god isn’t the only way to go to heaven, god just helps us overcome our sins and all that. it’s easier to do that if you have god to help you, but if you can do it without god i don’t think he’s going to deny you access to heaven.
*applauds*
I’m an atheist! Yay for us!
*stands alone*
Just because we believe there isn’t a god is no reason for you to lecture us about heaven, hell, and eternal damnation and hellfire. Got that? Good. Also, if every religion on earth starts being so exclusive, we are ALL going to hell one way or another. OK? Good.
s
s?
isn’t rrf atheist?
(#52)- no
(#75)- wow we are religious peoples… except for some people… okay sry that was just me being annoying…
Oooh, genetic engineering. Nice topic.
With plants, I’m in between- while it’s rather annoying to see natural things altered, I’m not going to kill myself over it.
But with animals- no. A huge no. That’s sick, in my opinion. Unless it’s to their benifit, not ours.
Em’s “s” was just an accident. Pay no heed to it.
um… yea, i’ve said that twice. are you deleting my comments?
Er… yes, I deleted those comments by mistake. I thought you were telling me I could delete THOSE comments but actually you were telling me I could delete the “s.”
Well, all is clear now I hope.
s
I was raised as/ used to be Christian (like my Dad), but recently began forming my own opinions and converted to Buddhism. For a year or so in-between, I was an atheist untill my Mom introduced me into Buddhism. On my Dad’s side, sometimes I feel preassured because they want me to attend church and sometimes tease me. My younger cousins (2-6 or7 years old) can’t understand why I do not discuss those topics with them, and it can be uncomfortable. I have friends of all religions. Who hear feels sorry for Jahova witness people? They have to travel door-to-door to strange houses and occasionally get yelled at by strangers. My friend even had a large dog set on her because she came to a mean person’s house to try and convert him/her.
Hi artemis fowl II! i think buddism is interesting. what is jahova witness?
A Jehova’s Witness is a Christian who goes around converting people. My great uncle was a Jehova’s witness for a while, but he was a teenager so he stayed with his sister (my grandmother) an Orthodox Jew. He told her not to tell his friends that he was staying with her because they would want him to save her soul, and my grandmother– well, if he suggested it, he knew she’d probably save HIS soul with an axe.
I am sitting out here early in the morning and I just heard some Canada geese go by!
Why did you decide to convert, Artemis?
Jahova’s witnesses are those annoying people that come around to people’s houses and try to convert them on the spot. Yeah, I sort of feel sorry for the ones that get yelled at ect., but what do they expect people to do? Say, “Oh wow! That sounds great! I mean, I just heard of it five minutes ago, but sure, I’m willing to devote my life to this strange new religon. Wheee!”? I wonder what their success rate is? Still, I guess we should be polite to them. We don’t get many anymore. Okay, #70: God did not create people that way, Satan (being the lord of all that is evil) is in charge of that. I don’t entirely understand it myself, but God has a pretty good record with me, so I’m willing to trust His on that. I would not be surprised if God told you lots of things. #76: God helps us overcome our sin, but that is not what gets us into heaven, it is His forgivness that does it, because we can never completely overcome our sinful nature. It is our duty to help others overcome their sin, but I think we would still get into heaven if we didn’t. It would be sort of like just getting a passing grade. Sorry Queen J and Em. I done now. Yes! I am officially done talking about religion (unless somebody else brings it up agian. Hey! Don’t look at me like that!). I sense I am getting annoying. I don’t know a whole lot about genetic engineering, but it seems as though there are plenty of perfectly good plants and animals right now. If we leave them alone, they’ll probably be fine. *Looks outside* Yep, there are enough plants and animals.
im not atheist, just kind of liberal.
where do you live?
what’s up folks!
The sky. I say that to everyone. Annoys the fardwarks out of most people, actually. Good to know.
When I was little I went trick-or-treating and this Jehovah’s Witness person gave me this booklet that basically stated that anyone who didn’t believe in Jesus or God was evil. I still have it. Creepy, doncha think?
Genetic engineering is an exciting new scientific front. Just think of what we can grow to help people. We could even save the Aral Sea! It’s exciting, it’s new, and it helps A LOT more than it hurts.
Could somebody explain genetic engineering to me? And fardwarks? So the Jehovah’s Witness basically told you you were evil?! Maybe you should have dressed up as one of them… Okay, okay I don’t mean to beat the JWs over the head, they’re just a bit too aggressive. And creepy.
I’m an atheist. Although at school when people ask I generally tell them I’m a secular Jew. Which is true, and it avoids the whole a-word issue and then I don’t get lectured about how I need to save my soul and find Jesus and all of that crap.. I do think that the more conservative forms of Christianity foster intolerance, with all the “we’re right and everyone else on the planet is wrong”… And how do you know that God really wants you to do that? Since you believe in there being an evil person trying to corrupt humankind, how do you know that it isn’t secretly all the work of Satan? And why exactly do you believe it in the first place? And I also don’t see exactly how you can believe every single word in it- I mean, there are passages in there that say roughly that it’s okay to sell your daughters. I don’t know, a lot of the religious stuff just doesn’t make sense to me. It’s fine if you want to think it, but it doesn’t seem to mostly make people behave better; it seems to mostly make them more intolerant of people outside their world and cause more hate crimes.. And that’s true of a lot (most) of religions, when you get into the fanatics and fundamentalists…
Genetic engineering.. I don’t know. It’s a bit creepy. As is pumping food products full of chemicals and antibiotics…
it doesn’t make sense, but is it supposed to make sense? that’s why i’m rather cautious of bible interpretations, because the bible tends to be… a bit strange.
Genetic engineering, in response to #96, is basically altering a plant/animal’s hereditary genes to enhance them. Scientifically. A lot of people are wigged out about this because apparently it’s unsafe, and genes are inserted from other things and people get creeped out at it. “Fardwarks” comes from Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, as discussed in our Douglas Adams thread.
Yes, I’m an atheist. I’m interested in Buddhism, simply because there haven’t been many massacres “in the name of the Buddha.” (I’m thinking Spanish Inquisition (which nobody expects) (which A-C’s evil cousin can “see the point to.”) and the Crusades. (ditto about A-C’s cousin)) I hate people going around telling me that I’m going to hell. Someone has notified the Jehovah’s Witness people that my family is atheist, and we now get this quarterly newsletter about “finding God.” If we had a cat, it would be used for cat litter. Our dog does not use cat litter. So it is recycled, to save trees. Who informed the JW’s? I suspect the government. But then again, I suspect the government of a lot of stuff. And I don’t know if you have to give out religious affiliation on the census or anything like that. But whatever.
Hey, how does everybody feel about the environment? SAVE THE TREES! *hugs tree*
ok, lizzie, in post 9, said that the “under God” thing in the pledge “says that the US believes in a single, male god as opposed to many gods, a goddess, or no gods” God is not male. or at least, not entirly. Genesis 1:27 in the NIV versision says: “So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them” so. i dont really get it, but my sunday school teacher says that the last bit means that God is neither male or female. i for one say that that makes my head hurt. sry to anyone this might offend. really. its just what i believe.
post 97 – lizzie said that christians think that they are right and everyone else is wrong. that is not entirly true. i am a christian and i think everybody else is wrong in that they dont know the true God. she also mentioned that we believe in satan, and suggested that mabye its secretly hs doing. ALL sin is because of temtation from satan, combined w/ the sin nature of us humans. lizzie also said that christianity doesn’t make people behave better. i quite agree. knowing God and being a christian only makes you aware of temtation and make you try to act more kindly. i dont think that christianity breeds intolerance, either. i have a lot of atheist friends, and i am not ok with that because i know their going to hell unless they confess their sins to God and ask him to come into their hearts and forgive them and all, BUT i dont like them any less than my christian friends, only im amazed i keep them all on good terms w/ me because im forever nagging at them to come to sunday school, church, and youth group. i have success about 2/10 times. and ive never heard of any hate crimes in our town that were caused by religion. also, when lizzie mentioned an evil person trying to corrupt human kind, i assume she meant Satan. prepare to be lectured. Satan is NOT a person. he is a fallen angel. see, he used to be lucifer, and he was very powerful, BUT he decided he wanted to be God. bad. very bad. so God booted him out of heaven, and some angels followed him, and he became Satan and the other angels became demons. and the rest is history. 76 – believing in God IS the only way to heaven. you want to try to overcome your sins w/ God’s help so you can be a better person and show God’s grace to others so they want to be more like you and thus they have an open mind when you evangilize. and capitalize the word ‘God’.
ok, sry. im preaching again. i do that.
*cheers*
AAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGHHHHHH!
i just read comment 45, and i must admit i am most apalled. there is no “sub heaven,” there is heaven, with God and eternal happiness, and there is hell with eternal fire and eternal suffering. and Jesus is only coming back to earth when the time comes for Judgement. then all the peoples who are still alive get judged, and if they know God, they go to heaven, and God is happy, and if they dont, they go to hell and God is really really sad. And we are definetly not evolved from monkeys, like Kricket said. although, come to think of it, my sister looks a little like a baboon…. sorta…
and peoples, Jesus is God, God is Jesus, and The Holy Spirit is Jesus and God, and vice versa…. Jesus is refered to as the word in Genesis…. and i really ought to stop preaching all of you…
You haven’t heard of any hate crimes caused by religion? (Yes, I am ignoring the “in our town” part because 1. I don’t know where you live, 2. I don’t know if there’s a KKK there, 3. I don’t know what other groups there are there, 4. And I think it’s rather irrelevent.) Hmm.. What about the crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Salem Witch trials, WW2 and the Holocaust, the pograms, etc etc etc…
And I realize I’ve been being rather… strongly opinioned about this. I’ve been in a bitter mood lately. But I’m sure you’re all nice people really.
Man that last sentance was patronizing. We’re all Mus- *splat*.
Preach on, sister! (Lilbro 777, you’re a girl, right? If not, I’m terribly sorry.) Oh brother, here we go again. Religion peoples. Can’t we all just get a-SPLAT! Lizzie 97: Would you please refrain from refering to my religion as crap? Thank you. God does NOT want Christians to be judgmental of others at all. “Do not judge or you too will be judged.” I think it is awful that Christians have come to be known as having “holier than thou” attitudes. No pun intended. According to Paul, (a disciple and author of the greater part of the New Testament) Christians are supposed to stand out from others becasue of their great love for each other and everyone. “Love your neighbor as yourself.” duh. And “Love your enemies.” How many Christians truly love their enemies? Almost none as far as I can tell. A lot of people claim to be Christians, but don’t ever do anything. They are Christians if they believe that Christ is the only way to salvation and that He is God and they will go to heaven. However, they will have misportrayed God’s name by not showing Him through themselves. How do I know that this isn’t all the work of Satan? My, that’s a cynnical question. If Satan truly stood for the things that God stands for, then he wouldn’t be Satan. He would be God. If you mean that God is a creation of Satan’s then does it really matter? I mean, if Satan was the only supreme being, it wouldn’t really matter if I was following him directly or tricked into it. I would eventually end up with him. I don’t really understand your question. Why do I believe what I believe? Well, I am ashamed to admit that I don’t have a good answer. I should, and I think about it a lot, but as of now I”m not entirely sure. I’ll let you know when I get something better, but for now: The Bible is one of the most historically accurate documents to date. If parts of it were written when they are thought to be written, then it truly does have prophesies in it. It was said that things would happen that have happened and the writers would have no way of knowing that they would happen except by divine intervention. I have had experiences and heard testimonies from others that lead me to believe it. If you want, I can relay a creepy story from my youth pastor about the spiritual world. Why do I believe every word of the Bible? Again, I don’t have a perfect answer, but I believe in God and I believe that the putting to gether of the Bible was His doing. When I have better answers, I tell you. Almost all hate crimes are caused by religion, but God does not approve of them. They shouldn’t happen, but they do. Forgivness, love, and peace of Lord, peoples!
evolution is scientifically proven
If you know how, please explain. I’ve never really heard exactly what proofs there are of this…
I’ll a dedicated animal rights/environmentalist/Gyllenhaalic.
Ignore that last one.-sqeals-
But I really do value the environment and all things natural- my dream is to move somewhere quite a bit more rural than where I am. We used to have some lovely looking foothills, but develpers got those. It’s terrible, because the coyotes have no home (as well as all the other animals that lived there). We saw one on our street.
V. sad. I figure it all evens out eventually though. If anyone wants a full example ask, it’s there.
Quick technical comment on #108:
In science, only mathematicians ever say they have proof. Other scientists only say they have evidence for their ideas.
Some of that evidence can be mighty strong, of course. I’d say that the “Earth is round rather than flat” hypothesis is pretty well proven at this point. But strictly speaking, a scientist wouldn’t.
but how do they know that there really was a “Big Bang”? you know this arguement could go on forever… can we pwease talk about something else? and do you know that they actually found evidence that the Great Flood actually happened…
THERE WAS NO BIG BANG! God created the world. explosions wreak havoc, and they don’t create universes/.
I always wonder why people care so much about evolution and the like. Why does it matter?
So? Explosions can create anything they zarking well feel like. This is our universe, after all. Anarchy reigns supreme. I mean, it’s irrational, totally hypothetic religion. OK? So the human race was evolved from apes.
If God created the world, how did Satan come into it? Did G. create S., who then turned bad or something? And why is G. a him? Did G. create himself? And why did G. even BOTHER with creating the world? Did the cat just make it for fun? Why the other religions? Hello? I think I’m in over my head… (I was waving, not drowning.)
Kricket, baby, darling, dear old chap Kricket (#112), you’re a good old egg, but you know, this discussion we’re having, it can’t go on forever. Despite the meaning of “forever” which I will ignore for the present, the Big Bang is just a theory. It is, however, extremely plausible.
I like being atheist. So what if people lecture me? They’re their own conservative white-bread narrow-minded Christian selves, and I get to be weird and froody. Nil combustibus profumo. Jehovah’s Witnesses are, in my opinion, to be avoided whenever possible. They tend to start yelling in your face about eternal damnation and hellfire.
Lilbro777 i totally agree with you!!!!!
Axa (114)-People don’t want to think that they’re descendents of monkeys. We want to think we’re better. No offence.
Kricket and Libro- I personally don’t believe in God, but there are plenty of Christians (A-C included) who think that the Big Bang and evolution happened, just were sparked by God. What if God caused the Big Bang? What if God said, “Let’s smush these molecules together and see what happens? Oo, look, an amino acid! I wonder what happens if I stick a bunch of them together? It’s moving! It’s alive! THIS IS SO COOL!! I think I’m gonna watch and see what happens next.” (Okay, so God probably didn’t say that.) But that’s the general point. Why cna’t God have a little fun? Why couldn’t he just give life a push in the right direction, rather than designing it every step of the way? If I were God, I’d enjoy just watching it happen. Admittedly, I am not God, and I don’t know how his mind functions.
And if you count fossils of sea creatures on land as “evidence” of the Great Flood, well, okay. But it could just as easily point to the more plausible theory of continental drift. What is this evidence, anyway? I’d like to hear what you think about this stuff.
Sorry if I offended anyone. I tend to do that a lot when I get vocal about my opinions. Rebuttals welcome. After all that way I can re-re-but–*splaaat*
I also like being atheist. The thought of some invisible bieng watching me is just too weird, creepy, and Big Brother-ish. Even if he created me. I stay atheist. You can pray for me if you want, but don’t say I’m going to hell, and don’t tell me to my face that you’re praying for my soul. It’s fine if you do, because I can’t do anything about your freedom, but not fine if you tell me.
People want to be right, that’s why! I don’t really see how a universe can just blow up from nothing. There’s no such thing as a free lunch. Or universe. Anyway, the explosions can do whatever they darn well please. I’m not stopping them. Yeah, God created Satan and then he rebeled. Why did God create the world? Um…….I don’t know! Ask Him. And Christians are weird and froody too! Some of them anyways. At least weird…
Hey… The URL box is gone!!! YAY!!!
Queenie J as much as I love the Atheist opinion on here as everybody else gets a little too preachy sometimes, please don’t call ALL Christians “conservative white-bread narrow-minded” because not all are.
I am glad that not everyone is religious here. I kind of felt left out here with all of the very strong religion. I was raised Catholic but I really don’t know what I am. I know I believe in God but I don’t know which religion I fit in to. I like some aspects of many different ones. Now don’t all try to convert me to yours at the same time!
I don’t know what I think about the big bang. I think it happened but God (who I believe is a sort of spirit of good that is both male/female/both at the same time.) kind of started it. and lilbro777, the big bang isn’t an explosion. at least I don’t think it is. Maybe Robert can clarify.
ok. 115. a God created lucifer, who was an angel, who decided to be God, and thus got kicked outa heaven and became satan. God is not male or female. don’t ask, cause i dont get it. God didn’t even get created (my head hurts. yours?) he is omnipresent and always has been. God created the world because, well, i guess just sitting in void w/ nothing but angels was lonely (my head REALLY hurts) and all the different religions are from human’s sin nature.
and ebeth, the big bang was klose enough to an explosion. a cosmic egg smaller than a pinhead opened and… thus… the universe? uh-huh. sounds like an explosion to me. and where’d the egg come from? (and don’t say a cosmic chiken… i am not in the mood…) also, God isn’t a spirit. he is well… i dunno. but he’s not all spirit, anyway. he created EVERYTHING. just went pbth and it was there (not really. was more the let there be _______ kind a thang. but never mind)
also, evidence of the great flood. prepare to be bored to death (oo i hope not…)… bumbumbum… (da da. da da.) mt saint helens. (musebloggers: huh?) ok. the flowing water/mud from the eruption made miniature grand canyons. in 6 days, people. Grand Canyon = flood, which was 40 days & 40 nights (oh, and phantom norker, no offense taken) sound plausible, yes? and post 119 – christians are wierd sometimes, but it ain’t their religion. take me, for example… ah… not good example… augh what the heck… oh and i am a chrstian and weird and froody…
and yeah, im a girl, and i use my horses namee…
hey peoples (at least the peoples who go to church) who stays awake during sermons?
Same here E~A; I’m Catholic, but really more…I dunno, spiritual? Sort of? My own value set, I guess.
you know what one of my favorite verses is?
John 14:6
Jesus answered: I am the way the truth and the light. No man cometh to the Father except through me.
(hint hint. people who think they can work their way into Heaven are proven wrong by the bible.) no offense, really.
oh post 117 – you mentioned that some christians beleive in the big bang. THEN THEY AREN”T CHRISTIANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the Bible says God comepletely designed the universe. therefor there was no big bang. pbth.
Yeah, Christian mythology confuses the heck out of me. I don’t know what I’d do if I were a practicing Christian…
As it is now, I’m an atheist-Quaker. I don’t attend Meeting anymore, but I’m strongly pacifist and seem to agree with most of the Quaker ideas. If most pagans (I know) aren’t so annoying, I might even consider looking into that stuff, but most of the new-age pagan stuff just seems so twinky.
Zallie- happy fluffy bunnies.
y_k_m (from a long time ago)- sorry, I wasn’t referring to the religion, I was referring to attempts to prosletyze which I still can’t spell.
Okay, have two main things I want to say here:
1. Why do some Christians look down on polytheism? to me, a whole lot of the Christian religion sounds polytheistic- the Trilogy (which is also a whole lot like the Hindu ideas), all of the angles, an anti-Christ (Lucifer), the saints, etc. It’s like three main gods and a lot of mini-gods/goddesses…
2.I really prefer to think there is not a god/goddess- if there were, He would have to have a really sick, warped sense of humor…
sry. i havent been on in a really long time, and i haven’t finished catching up, but i must take this moment to bash MontgomeryGurl(22) ANIMALS CAN THINK LOVE AND HAVE THE RIGHT TO LIVE. you are just being a concieted homo sapien, not to reconize the fact that others who are different then you may be intellagent.
In fact, all homo sapiens are concieted. certain chimps are closer geneticly to homo sapiens then they are to any other primate. but do we but classify them as ‘homos’? of course not.
108) So? Gravity is scientifically proven, that doesn’t mean it’s true. Look at Lusifer Ink., for one.
Why can’t we all just agree to disagree?
lilbro777, #121-that was E-A, not me.
aah. homo sapiens. *hums*
yeah we are all stuck-up idiotic bullies. “human nature” no offense to any humans around here…
christians aren’t polytheistic. The “trilogy” is all one being. One god. Monotheistic. But i don’t look down on polytheistic religions either, and i’m christian. STOP THE GENERALIZATIONS!!!!
So what exactly are we arguing now? are we just stating our different beliefs on religion?
(130)
What’s that supposed to mean?
The war on Iraq! Let’s argue about that! I’ll be sitting in the corner, using Robert’s instructions to make a fusion bomb.
So why DID we go into iraq anyway?
make sure you through it at my english teacher.
??? confuzzled
Montheistic. Long wordie.
We went into Iraq because Bush Jr. wanted to succeed where Daddy failed.
I meant officially.
sry, should’ve clarified.
It seemed to me at the time that we were going because of afghanistan somehow, but that didn’t make any sense…I guess i’m just not sure how he got everybody to support him.
hehehe.. can we talk about something else? like how stupid the SATs are?
What about happy, fluffy bunnies? *lost*
Wait, we only started this topic eight comments ago!!!
lusifer#137
that is one reason. another is oil. another is WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION. another is sadamm hussien. another is al queda. of course none of these justify anything since there were no “weapons of mass destruction”.
130) lol
read wikipedia’s article on evolution
Officially, we went to Iraq because “it was planning to make nucular weapons of mass destruction” and “Saddam Hussein was connected to 9/11.” Since then, the supposed “undeniable evidence” that Iraq was making weapons has been unproven, possibly disproven, and nothing has been found connecting Saddam to Al Qaeda. Basically, we went to war to cover up the recession and to finish what Daddy started.
Mmm, on the subject of oil, everyone should go see Syriana. Seriously, even if you think it’s a crazy liberal movie, because it’s really, really interesting, and it never hurts to see things from another perspectice.
But nobody was threatening the oil there this time. at least i don’t think so…
*perspective. God, I can’t spell.
One of the things that annoys me about living in America is the military-industrial complex. Urglebach.
Oil-Conan Doyle? Boil? Recoil? I was going to write up a couplet about oil but I couldn’t find a good rhyme. Darn.
The U.S. is oddly dependent on oil
And for it, Bush’s temper does boil
So to fix the crisis with Iraq
He’s giving Saddam an electric chair shock
The international community thinks this is bollocks
And have given the president many hard knocks.
So remember this, my American friends
War gives no conflict or country happy ends.
It’s a good couplet, doncha think? Sums it up pretty well. I could think up a better one, but not with the GAPA supervising everything to within an inch of its life.
As a small note, Iraq is the first country the U.S. has gone to war with by attacking first. Every other wat was either in retaliation or as an aid to an other.
Nice poem!
Chickens are about as mentally and emotionally capable as a carrot, I think. Animals that have born and raised in an environment where they are meant to be consumed and bred to be slaughtered should meet their fate. After all, lab rats couldn’t survive in the city and we’ve selected farm animals so much for taste and size that their only purpose in life is being eaten by us (sadly, I admit). We’ve controlled their evolution. Birds and animals, however, that have lived in the wild away from humans are not expecting or expected to end up on a dinner plate or a carpet. I despise hunting. They have evolved on their own and don’t need our help or our interference with a great life.
In short: Up with wild animal rights, down with domestic animal rights.
there is something to that. are you going to extend that to humans?
any human that cannot survive for 24 hours in the wild deserves to be chopped up and put on a plate!
Lets go cannabalists!
besides, legalizing cannabalism will help keep the population in check
you can believe in the big bang and be christian. What if you believe that God created the big bang? The bible is a guideline on how to live and stuff, it isn’t word-for word what you should do. the seven days thing is symolism. Others believe that the bible is the absolute truth and eveything it says is true. others are imbetween.
Axa- I totally agree that I a spiritual. I kind of come up with my own beliefs and things.
#131– What?? I was #120 not #121, that was lilbro777
and everyone remember, “We are all musers here.”
I don’t see how libro can say someone who believes in the Big Bang isn’t Christian. (Although I don’t know much about Christianity.) What if God designed the Big Bang to create the universe? Does that count? And not every Christian believes that the Bible is the literal word of God. After all, the Bible says that pi is exactly 3. (This information courtesy of Larry Gonick.) So, are you going to use 3 for pi in math just because it’s in the Bible? You’ll fail the circles part of geometry.
While I’m atheist, I don’t see how anyone can take the Bible as EXACTLY what God thinks.
New topic… How about racism and race in general? (The March issue of Muse is about race, I think.)
My personal view: I hate race. People want to pigeonhole themselves and look down on others. So we find differences between us and turn it into “race.” Did you know that certain Africans are closer genetically to those who’d call themselves “white” than others who consider themselves “African?” Race is an excuse for the most atrocious atrocities, like slavery or the Holocaust. I hate race and racists.
I’d first like to say that there is only one thing that I feel more strongly about that this, so expect a very opinionated post.
“Chickens are about as mentally and emotionally capable as a carrot, I think. Animals that have born and raised in an environment where they are meant to be consumed and bred to be slaughtered should meet their fate.”
I understand what you are trying to say- but that doesn’t fly with me. The fact that we have altered animals in such a way is horrible to begin with( though it is understandable to a certain extent for food and such), but to justify the mass slaughter of animals in ways more barbaric than you could ever know with the thought that they wouldn’t survive elsewhere just isn’t acceptable.
I know I’ve touched on this before, but the animals are quite literally tortured. Maybe not everywhere, maybe not all the time, but trust me. If a taser doesn’t work, do you honestly think a worker would pause the whole work line to make sure one animal is unconscious?
No. It’s going to be dead soon anyway, and how it ends up so doesn’t matter.
There’s more, but I’ll spare you the grisly details.
Look at PETA’s website everyone. Please.
DIE ANIMAL TORTURERS DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
sry got a little carried away… hem hem… eh… still i meant what i said!!! sort of…
#157- you actually have a point there about God creating the Big Bang, but we won’t ever know…
The best bang since the big one? See Terry Pratchett’s paragraph on the subject in his wondrous novel (which I read at lunch today, incidentally) The Color of Magic, featuring Rincewind, Twoflower, and the infamous Death.
God is the ultimate dictator. No offense, God.- Someone, possibly on the Museblog, but I think it’s funny.
After a little Googling, I found this:
“I Kings 7:23–26 and II Chronicles 4:2–5 describe a huge brass bowl built by King Solomon. If the diameter of this bowl was 10 cubits, then the circumference should have been 31.415926…cubits, not just 30 cubits! Any math student will tell you that the circumference of a circle is found by taking the diameter times Pi (3..141592653589793…)…
“The answer is so simple!
“The diameter of 10 cubits is from outer rim to outer rim, the way anyone would measure a circular object. The circumference of 30 cubits, however, was of the inner circle, after subtracting the thickness of the brass (two handbreadths—one for each side) from which the bowl was made. This would be the number needed to calculate the volume of water.”
—Dr. Kent Hovind
I think racism is a two way street, but many people tend to think of it as a one-way one. I mean, I’m all for accepting everyone for who they are and not by the colour of their skin, but I want to be accepted back, you know? My highschool has a bunch of clubs for people of different races (Asian, African American, Desi etc.) which are allowed to be proud of their heritage and make posters that say ‘LATINO PRIDE’ or “AFRICAN AMERICAN PRIDE” to advertise for their clubs. I’m glad that they get a chance to display their spirit and all, but if I were to make a European-American Club’ I’d immediately get tagged as a racist/white supremicist, which I’m really not. If I were to say that I’m proud of my culture or whatever, I’d have to worry about seriously offending some of my African American friends, which if they say something similar, I have to smile politely and not be offended.
Yeah, I think the only way we’re going to end racism is if everyone is accepted, not only those cultures which have a history of being put down.
I stand by my quote that chickens are about as aware of their pain as carrots. I could extend that to humans, but I’m not going to. Who would chose who is to be eaten? The terrible conditions that you describe pretty much apply only to factory farms, anyway. Freerange and organic meats from our co-op are better than that.
You can believe multiple theories on the creation of everything if you believe they both happened in different universes, but both result in here and now being what it is. That’s what I think. What’s more, I think the here and now was created in an infinite amount of ways. I believe that in a truly infinite universe, there must be an infinite amount of every imaginable circumstance.
I don’t think we’re going to get any controversy on racism here. What about being prejudiced against racists, or racist-ist? How’s that?
I agree with Zallie on the racism thing #164
#161- I brought up the point that God could have created the big bang in #156! (not one fifty six factorial though^_^) Did anyone read my post?
I am a big supporter of animal rights, but I think that PETA can get a little extreme. What everyone, including PETA, needs to remember is that animals and people are equal. We are animals, just animals who like to think we’re more sophisticated than other animals. Most people think that we’re more important, and sometimes it seems like PETA thinks that animals are more important. Neither one is right. We need to think about both sides of the argument, human and animal, before we come to a conclusion.
That being said, I’d just like everyone to take a moment to ponder where there meat came from. You don’t have to become vegetarian or anything, just imagine. That’s what did it for me, thinking about all these other thinking, feeling creatures just in a line to go and die, and they didn’t even know what was going to happen to them. That was just too terrible, and I felt like I couldn’t eat meat any more.
Let’s talk about ANWR! *growls* I cannot believe our git of a president cares more about his buddies in big oil than the animals, plants, and scenery in ANWR. America used to be this country with breathtaking landscapes and wildlife. And Bush wants to sell it out to oil companies. I can’t believe it. (Well, I can, I just can’t see his justification.)
MontgomeryGurl- I agree with you for once! on most of your post #22!! This is a historic moment! (I usually don’t agree with you hence the insane excitement ^_^) I don’t totally agree with the gay marrige and animal rights parts.
On those issues that were being discussed back then I think the following:
Gay Marriage: Go ahead. Marry whomever you like.
Animal rights: Don’t torture animals. Be nice to them. Animals do eat each other so its not like we can’t eat them. just keep it balanced. Don’t be wasteful or cruel.
The pledge: Not everyone believes in God. Some believe in multiple Gods/Goddeses and some believe in none at all. The whole U.S. doesn’t have one religion for everyone (just look at us^_^) the shouldn’t enforce a God onto everyone.
Guns are silly.
and by guns are silly I mean that they are pointless and stupid. I don’t see the point in them.
Guns are important, I suppose, if you live in a dangerous country, but as America I kind of think we ought to set an example as a non-violent country. Kind of. It’s complicated.
Oh, yeah, E~A, I think that you brought up a really interesting point about God/Big Bang, but there’s nothing I can say to that except ‘yeah, that’s interesting’ ’cause I don’t know enough about Christian mythology to debate it properly.
People often get confused when they can’t pigeonhole someone into a certain religious category. “One of those people who isn’t Christian or Jewish or anything but believes in God maybe” isn’t really very helpful. So…
DEIST- You believe in God, or a god or natural force. You believe that there is a higher power controlling the world, but your definition of its nature may not fit into that of established religion.
AGNOSTIC- You aren’t sure about the existence of God. You don’t take sides one way or the other on whether there is anybody presiding over the world.
ATHEIST- You aren’t religious at all. You don’t think that God or any god exists.
These are my definitions. Make corrections if you need to.
*ahem* I’m back.
If you’re wondering, Jehovah’s Witnesses are not really Christians. They’ve got some insane beliefs.
I can tell you why I’m a Christian. It’s because for months I prayed to feel God’s love, and now I feel it. Constantly, a wonderful feeling is in my body, that gets so strong sometimes it hurts. It’s like an overblown version of what I feel around my mom, or my best friends when I really love them. I am constantly aware of a love that is bigger than all time. Nothing will ever convince me that I made this up, or that I live my life for a non-existant goal. If something ever did convince me that He wasn’t there, I think I would kill myself. One thing I’ve never undertstood about the theory of evolution, is where did the initiative come from? Why did nature decide to make creatures better and better? Where did a force that drove everything towards the goal of being perfece come from?
God has always existed. That may sound wierd, but it’s not, really. Christians believe that He is vastly above us, and did not intend for us to understand Him. We can’t be as smart as Him, or fully grasp Him, because a stream can not run above it’s source. We are supposed to trust Him. I’ve been doing that for years, and many, many people I know have been doing it too, and He’s never let us down yet.
The trinity is an odd idea. One way of looking at it that has helped me is the idea that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all exactly the same God, but those are just three different ways that He shows himself to us. Somtimes we need the Holy Spirit to work in our lives, so He comes as that. Sometimes we need the Son to take our pain, and He arrives as that. It’s really unfathomable, though, in the end. We’re not intended to understand it.
That may seem like an easy way out, but it’s the truth. I would love to believe it’s different, but I can’t. I would love to believe everyone goes to heaven, and I’ve tried to, but I just can’t. In my heart, I know He’s the only way there. Don’t think I just made this up because it makes me feel good, it breaks my heart daily.
Even so, why should animals suffer for our actions?
On the topic of guns, I don’t think we can realistically take them away. People need to learn to be responsible. That or WAY more strict gun laws.
The thing about the theory of evolution is that there is no initiative, besides the drive to have sex, and it isn’t going towards the goal of being perfect, really. Actually, now that I think of it, it is, kind of, in the sense of “perfect” meaning able to survive and reproduce in your environment.. I mean, take a population of hot pink bunnies. They’re living happily in a desert, breeding like rabbits do, etc. Suddenly, a tidal wave comes and sweeps half of them across the ocean (It’s a small ocean, okay? Like the Mediterranean sea or something.) and deposits them on another country there. This new country isn’t a desert- it’s a forest. Suddenly, the hot pinkness that led them to be perfectly camoflaged in the desert (it was a pink-sanded desert) isn’t an advantage. Instead, the pinkness makes them stand out to some predators, the Cat and Dog Warriors (CADW).
However, all the bunnies aren’t the exact same shade of pink. Some are lighter, some are darker, and some, due to a printing error, are reddish. As the bunnies settle in, the slightly darker pink bunnies do slightly better in avoiding the CADWs because they blend in better, and so get more of the babes, most of whom are darker as well since the lighter ones got caught. Then the aformentioned female hot-pink-bunnies have little hot-pink-bunnies who turn out to be the darker pink as well. Over time, as more and more generations pass, more and more of the bunnies are darker and darker, until they all are purple hot-pink-bunnies. Suddenly, one day, as they’re leading their happy hot-purple-bunny lives, a great tidal wave comes and sweeps some back to their land of origin. They arrive, and see all of these hot-light-pink-bunnies (the forces of evolution were going on in the desert also). The hot-purple-bunnies, however, despite being descended from the same group of hot-pink-bunnies as the hot-light-pink-bunnies, can not interbreed with them, and, therefore, are indeed a seperate species.
Okay, now, in the real world the bunnies would have more than one trait and evolve in all of them, and probably not get swept back by a tidal wave, but that was to demonstrate that they are, indeed, a seperate species. But, to get back to my point, the bunnies that got swept into the forest suddenly weren’t “perfect” for their environment- they stuck out. However, there’s variations in traits of all species and so, by natural selection, the darker shades did better than the lighter shades because they didn’t stick out as much. So over time the population got darker and darker (because there was variation in the darker shades too, wasn’t there), until they were more suited to their environment. However, in this process, they had become so different from the hot-light-pink bunnies that they were, in effect, a seperate species. For a real world example, look at the tenrecs- they all are descended from a single female, but there are many different species of them and they’re very different from each other.
Keep in mind also that the line between species isn’t a distinct, solid, bold black line in a whole lot of cases. For instance, I’m a bird watcher. Species of birds are constantly getting split apart (they were classified as subspecies before) and lumped together as subspecies. For example, the Dark Eyed Junco has five subspecies (Oregon, White-winged, Slate-colored, Pink-sided, and Grey-headed) , which at different times have been considered five different species. I think we’re in a splitting mode right now- these things tend to come and go in fads.
Okay, did this clarify anything for anyone? Was it at all helpful/followable/etc? (and sorry for any misspellings- I can’t think today for some reason).
MontgomeryGurl- I know you didn’t make any of that up. Why would you have made it up?
The U.S. has more guns than adults. Americans seem to be resignedly committed to the fact that every so often some disturbed soul will take a gun and kill a lot of people, usually in a school with children. Something about the “right to bear arms”. Ugh. This translates to “right to kill other citizens” which is going down the drain to sewer wars. And once you get there, you need to have the colonial mentality of a Brit to get out of it. This is just my inner hippie talking. Too much Led Zeppelin, Jefferson Airplane and Do As Infinity.
Oooh, Do As Infinity!
The cycle is basically that someone thinks they’re going go get shot, so they buy a gin and end up being the one shooting someone. It’s ridiculous.
Mmm, this is a bit random, but I’ve been meaning to tell Axa (I think) that she was right in saying that Brokeback Mountain is an amazing movie, because it totally was.
I was expecting it to be a little bit trashy, but everything was handled really well and it’s an amazinly well-done film.
ANWR needs to be protected! It’s insane to sell it out to big oil companies just because they’ve given Bush money. INSANE. Poor natives, they’re all caught up in the crush and divided and the caribou are going away as well. Just leave ANWR alone. Put money into funding alternatives for the oil.
Okay, I’m going to sound really stupid here, (which I am, evidentally) but what does ANWR stand for? I don’t read the news very much, okay? I know: I should. Hello, MontgomeryGurl. Why would you lie about something llke that?! I feel the same way. And the idea of God having been around forever certaintly isn’t any more weird than organisms just springing up out of nowhere. Even if evolution created the species, something had to start it. Or at least create a space for it to spontaneously be. If there was no God, then wouldn’t there not be anything? I don’t even mean a void with nothing in it, I mean nothing. Nothing at all. But we wouldn’t know it was nothing because we wouldn’t exist. Nothing would exist. Aagh, my head hurts!
Guns: If we could somehow destroy every single gun on the face of the earth, that might sove the problem. Then people wouldn’t need to protect themselves against dangerous people with guns becasue guns wouldn’t exist. However, everybody wouldn’t give up their guns and they’d probably just invent a worse weapon. In this imperfect world, I think the right to bear arms is important. But why can’t people get it through they’re heads that you don’t point a gun at somebody you don’t intend to kill even if it isn’t loaded?! That’s what happens in almost every gun accident. They ‘didn’t think it was loaded”. People should not buy a gun unless they truly need it for self defence. Or, I guess, hunting.
Racism: I agree with Zallie in 164. Some forms of racism are overlooked just because that race hasn’t been put down in the past. If someone tried to start an all-black basketball team, people would probably think it was great. However, if someone tried to start an all-white basketball team, they’d be thought of as evil, racist, and down-right mean. I think the solution is to treat all races as equal, but not alike, and not try to hard to compensate for past errors, thereby creating a new form of racism.
Evolution: Okay, you all know I don’t beleive in evolution, but I liked the hot pink bunny story. Really! Just because the bunnies are different colors, it doesn’t mean that they wouldn’t mate. If that was true, then there would be a LOT less poor, homeless puppies and kittens. I mean, a black lab would mate with a choco lab no problem. By the way, nueter (however you spell that) your pets, musers! Anyway, I don’t think one species could evolve into another species unless there were very severe mutations. And even then, they would probably still breed with the old ones unless they had gotten a LOT bigger or a LOT smaller. And how often do you see a mutation in the wild that is actually helpful? Usually deformed animals just die shortly after birth. And how would people’s brains get bigger? People aren’t just born with bigger brains than others. (Are they?) Also, I don’t see how you can live with that frame of mind. If we’re all ‘civil’ like we’re supposed to be, how are the weaklings to get weeded out? Wouldn’t it be more condusive to your survival if you stabbed people in the back and then ate their food? Well, with that hideous thought, I’m signing off.
Other Musers: Finally!
The problem with gun control, is even if we could somehow get rid of all the guns on the face of the earth, I would still be at a disadvantage. Think about it, with no guns in the world, any man on earth could over power me, whether to rob me, rape me, or something worse. There is no way I could fight back, I’m simply not built that way. Now, if there were guns in the world, I would have a way to fight. Even if I didn’t have one with me, he wouldn’t know that, and he would therefor be a lot more cautious about attacking me. If we have no guns, anyone who felt like attacking me would have no reason to think twice, at least now they know I might have a gun.
Just to stir things up, what about the opposite situation: a society in which anybody is allowed to have any kind of weapon–automatic rifles, armor-piercing bullets, flamethrowers, rocket-propelled grenades, you name it. Would that be a safer place in which to live?
Of course it wouldn’t be. But that’s not exactly what I was talking about. I don’t think we need military grade or assault weapons, but basic guns should be allowed.
The bunnies being different colors were metaphors for more important traits. See, the thing is, it doesn’t have to be a severe mutation. At first it can just be a little difference. But if the most different ones keep breeding.. you get something like gold-fish with goggly eyes. I’ll explain/argue/rant/etc more later- I have to go.
Well it might actually be. If everybody had a gun…and everybody knew everybody else had a gun…you’d practically have to be suicidal to pull a gun out on somebody. I dunno, that’s an interesting thought…
Wasn’t it though Zallie? There are no words that can even begin to describe it. The movie quite simply broke my heart.
Again the real problem isn’t the guns, just the abuse of them. This is true with anything- take sugar or fatty foods for example.
Yes, Axa is right about guns. I think we shouldn’t ban guns, but rather ban crime. To me, that’s about what the anti gun movement seems like. It’s already illegal to misuse guns, yet that hasn’t solved the problem. What makes you think banning guns will? People will always find a way to kill and terrorize.
MG (184),
My point was that you said you were arguing against gun control, when in fact you support gun control: you don’t think that everybody should have access to any conceivable type of weapon. I think most people would agree with you there. What you oppose is an absolute ban on guns. I think most people would agree with you there, too.
It pays to be specific. Many seemingly major disagreements turn into minor ones when people stop to explain exactly what they’re talking about. Also when they stop assuming what the other side is saying and really listen to it.
All right, end of sermon. Back to you MuseBloggers…
Just like when we tried to ban alcohol way back when. People got smart and tried to make it themselves, thus creating a worse problem.
Welcome back, MG.
When you get down to it, evolution is basically rearranging of genes until they’re no longer compatible, like in Lizzie’s example with the bunnies (which I enjoyed very much, by the way.) Chocolate and yellow Labs have very similar genes. They can mate and produce fertile offspring, which is what defines them as the same species. The bunnies in Lizzie’s story could not, thanks to random stuff that happened in their genes so that they could stay alive.
No, mutations in the wild aren’t normally helpful in species that have evolved to suit their environments, but if they’re in some new place they haven’t adapted to, those same mutations could mean the diference betwen life and death.
Maybe God caused life to start evolving. The belief that he did does not disprove evolution. Evolution doesn’t state how life began, only what happened to it over time. Just because you believe that God created life doesn’t mean you can’t also believe that it evolved after he gave it the little push it needed.
I could give a full rant on all the evidence for evolution, but I will spare you. If you want it, ask.
Just to clear something up, prohibition was not as big a failure as we have been led to believe. Alcohol consumption went down %50 during that period. Not that it matters, it was completely unrelated.
I got your point, Robert. Hmmm, let’s see, specifics. No assault weapons, or things with just meaningless destructive power. Beyond that, I pretty much think everything goes. Like, nothing that has power just to have power, and won’t do any good by the extra, but normal guns shouldn’t be controlled as much as they are now.
hmm. haven’t been here yet, amazingly enough. mutt got the chance to insult bush, like, twenty times on a thing for school. it was so fun. 0_0
Evolution might have happened, but it doesn’t make sense without a god. I personally don’t believe God used evolution, but that’s just me. Robert once told us that evolution is about how the species progressed, not how it got started. Well, the fact is it had to get started at some point, and without a god this doesn’t make sense. You can’t simply ignore the fact that this world must have had a beginning.
One thing I don’t understand about the whole mutation thing, is wouldn’t those mutations at first be harmful? Wouldn’t half formed lungs make a fish weaker, and therefor wouldn’t that mutation get weeded out? Also, how did the fish know that lungs were what was needed to get out of the water? How did the fish even know there was more out there? How did he know that there was air? How did he know lungs would be required to breathe it? How did he know exactly how the lungs should be made in order to operate to the fullest advantage? What I don’t get, is how did the genetic code know exactly how to mutate to give x animal x mutation? And how did the genetic code know that x mutation would yeild x benefit?
The problem that I see with evolution (outside of a god), is that eventually, when you start tracing back, you come to some sort of line like this “where did we all come from?” “from a simle one celled creature” “where did the simple one celled creature come from?” “the primordial ooze” “where did the primordial ooze come from?” and so on, until you reach some sort of beginning. What really kills evolution is the beginning. It doesn’t make sense that there was no beginning, and any beginning proposed doesn’t make sense. Big bang: Where did the energy come from? Where did the raw materials come from? Floating specks come together and create earth: Where did the floating specks come from? The fact is, the beginning of the world under evolution always starts with an assumption, like that there were a few floating peices of space dust, and this makes it not a true beginning. I’ve never once heard a theory for the beginning that didn’t assume some kind of matter was around.
Well, as to the fish with lungs, you have modern day fish such as the lungfish which are in that situation.. I read somewhere about how a lot of scientists think that they started out as swim bladders.
Also, the genetic code didn’t know that to get to x you need to do y and modify gene#277 in just this way etc. What ended up happening is that the organisms with the good mutations/non-harmful ended up surviving, and the harmful mutations killed the animal that had them off. And many mutations aren’t big, drastic, OMGTHISRABBITHASTHREEHEADS!! stuff. they can be as minor as the change of a single amino acid, which sometimes doesn’t even make a difference in the gene. So how did evolution get started? Life isn’t perfect. Organisms aren’t perfect. Variations in genes happen. :-). Although I’m not sure if that was the actual question…
Okay, to finish explaining to y_k_m what I got cut off explaining: Species aren’t black and white. Really, a lot of different species are actually very similar (take my previous example of the juncos, for instance). Different species, such as horses and donkeys, can have sex. They can even produce offspring. Their offspring, however, aren’t fertile (mules), and so due to that and other factors, they’re considered different species. Species not even vaguely related can have sex (consider that thing with the sheep at the begining of Book II of Larry’s Cartoon History of the Universe). However, at some point, you can’t produce fertile babies. And that is where the species line is usually drawn. I think.
Also, MG especially, if you still want to read a debate between scientists and IDers, I’ve been looking at/trying to read the judge’s summation thingy for the Dover PA case (I’m currently on page 19 out of 138 or so. oy.)… It’s a bit thick but you probably could manage it especially if you convinced your mom to let you read it for science (Lucky homeschoolers. I have an essay I need to write by next Thursday and haven’t started..) I gave the link in the old Hot Topics thread to download it but I’m too lazy to re-find it.. I think all I did was google the full name of the case (“Kerstomething vs. something or another”) and it popped up..
I found Lizzie’s old post using my special GAPA/MAP powers. Here’s the link she’s talking about: http://www2.ncseweb.org/wp/ .
MAP?
Yes, ma’am?
(“MAP” is another word for “GAPA,” favored by MontgomeryGurl. It means “MuseBlog Administrator Person.”)
Oooooh! I found somebody who thinks kinda like me as far as evolution goes! Guess who it is!
Yay, comments are coming on with almost no lapse! Yay, GAPA/MAP(s)!!!!!!!!!!!
Gun control, cont.:
Here’s the problem with guns. OK, let’s say Milton Rupines threatens me with a gun. Even if I had a gun of my own, it wouldn’t help. It just wouldn’t. We would stand there until someone fired, at which point the other person would and everyone would be dead. And besides, the statistics are that weapons don’t help unless you have one in your hand when attacked. Guns just, well, kill people. And maybe they keep the deer population down, but nobody eats the venison afterwards and it’s just a WOMBAT. (Waste Of Money, Brains And Time)
A society where everyone had weapons would be unbelievably dangerous. Since Milton and I both would have weapons, he would need to work harder to try to get me. I, in turn, would have to work harder to avoid him. See what I mean?
I don’t really see how things could have gone from lizards or whatever to us, but I’m not saying evolution is impossible. Nobody can really disprove evolution, but they can’t disprove creationism either. There are plenty of wild animals that probably could breed and have fertile offspring, like the juncos, but don’t. A lot of animals, especially birds, that are considered different species are really just different color morphs. So I guess the purple bunnies might not breed with the light pink ones. Still, though, some of the mutations that would have to happen to get from, say a fish, to us are very unlikely. No amount of selective breeding is ever going to get you a fish with lungs and a fish who was, for some reason, just born with lungs wouldn’t know to swim to the surface. It would probably just die with it’s first breath. And if we evolved from apes and such then why are the apes still around? In fact why is anything, if we truly do sit atop the evolutionary heap, still around? Granted, we couldn’t live without a lot of species around today, but if it truly is survival of the fittest, then they should have died from being out of shape. After all, if they didn’t then why would the fitter ones be more able to reproduce? I’d like to hear your evidence, Norker. I promise not to just dismiss it.
As a Q&A guy, I have to answer YKM’s question: “If we evolved from apes and such then why are the apes still around?”
I hear this question a lot. Look at this way: my surname, Coontz, originated as a German name. My ancestors came to North America almost 300 years ago. So I’m descended from Germans, but Germans are still around. What’s the problem?
Queenie J, you may be right, but it’s completely impossible for us to get rid of guns. They’re a part of the world we live in, and it’s unrealistic to think we can get rid of them all. Outlawing them would do no good, look at London. Guns are outlawed, yet there is still a ton of crime there. There are actually statistics that show that once concealed weapons are allowed in an area, the crime rate actually goes down. By the way, people do eat the venison. Everyone in my family, and extended family, goes hunting, partly for sport, partly because we all love deer meat. We use it in everything. But that wasn’t the main point of your post, so I won’t talk anymore about it.
Quit saying that evolution doesn’t make sense without a god! I’m extremely offended as an atheist! It makes sense with a god and it makes sense without a god! The theist idea you are portraying is this to me: Hello, I’m God. I think I’ll create some stupid little bacteria. Hocus Pocus… POOF! There it is! Now I’m going to go be evolution even though it happens naturally (makes no sense unless god is nature, which means he can’t do Hocus Pocus. Two gods? no, no, you say.)
It probably was created by lightning or came from Mars, not by some pandimensional super-unreal-being. However, I respect your right to believe that. Just don’t say it can’t be any other way. God probably makes more sense to you. Maybe faith has done a lot to help you get through things. But it hasn’t for me, and that doesn’t mean my way isn’t possible.
Another thing: you don’t think fish could’ve probably evolved into humans? You must not understand the massive amount of time involved. Yah, in two hundred years, I don’t think a slime is gonna grow eyes. About three billion, five hundred million, I think so. 3,500,000,000 years!
People.People.People. Can’t we just admit we have ni pssible way of knowing? Really. Unless anyone here was about around that time.
We all have beliefs. Nothing is going to change that.
I’m pretty old. But not that old!
Too many people confuse what evolution really tries to explain. Evolution isn’t about how life started, but how it changed. The theory of evolution doesn’t seek to explain how the first life originated. That’s a whole different theory, and lots of people tend to confuse the two.
True–just as Isaac Newton’s theory of gravitation explains how planets orbit the sun but not where the planets came from. That doesn’t mean gravity is nonsense; it’s just not the whole story.
i dont think being gay/lesbian is a sin..
i mean, im bisexual, does that mean im a half-sin?
hm. im also an aethiest
haha we watched a funny isaac newton movie yesterday in science. With CAPTAIN HOOK!!!! YAAAY!
WAY off-topic here but whatever.
Evolution is pretty much accepted isn’t it? It’s just where people come in that there’s controversy. Or am i way off on this?
Well anyway yeah i guess i agree with the phantom norker on that.
Yeah my brain’s been officially turned off right now so i’ll come back when it’s recharged k? later peoples
I still don’t understand how anyone can be an athiest. Obviously, no one person has all knowledge, so God may exist outside of a person’s knowledge. Being an athiest is basically saying, “I know everything,” because one would have to know EVERYTHING in order to disprove the existance of God.
Or maybe atheists are saying “Nobody knows anything”
In which case, athiests are a part of “nobody.” So if athiests (along with everyone else) don’t know anything, then they cannot KNOW that there is no God.
On the other hand, how do people who worship one god (instead of zero gods) know for sure that all the others don’t exist? We may be verging on what Feather and Chad would call a mystery beyond comprehension.
Atheists, or at least my brand of them, shoot D_Q down with our Elfin bows. To prove the existence of a god you would have to know everything. We don’t BELIEVE there is a god. And even if there was one, what right does he/she have to run our lives and tell you what to do? This always seems weird to me.
Also, my Name and Email bars are highlighted in yellow. What does this mean? Don’t you love me anymore?
All religion is mysterious, because it is based solely on belief, with little to no proof. Either you have faith or you do not.
is that like the babll fish thing in HG2TG?
i think it goes like this
god=g, humans=h
g:i refuse to proove i exist because proof denies belief and i exist on belief
h: but the babel fish proves your existance, if you don’t prove you exist and there is proof, then you must not exist
g: i hadn’t thought of that.
god disappears in a puff of logic
or something like that
anyway, i am not n atheist, but that doesn’t mean i believe everything that is attributed to god was done by god (i.e. ceratain religous texts) but i do believe he is out there some where. he’s just been taking a catnap this century.
I can be atheist. And I don’t know everything. I don’t know that God isn’t somewhere out there. I do know that I don’t believe in him.
*sigh*
Inteligent design is evil. Or at least the part about teaching it in skools. There is nothing wrong with it, but it’s religion, not science.
Hey! Evolution is just as much a religion as inteligent design if your talking about teaching it in schools! Both are unproven theories and yet evolution is taught in schools as fact. That is veeeery unscientific if you ask me. I know that evolution, in and of itself, does not deal with the question of ‘where’d all this stuff come from?’, but schools teach the Big Bang theory. To quote Chad, “a scientist should never be completely sure.” I think they should teach both theories in schools, bringing up the evidence and problems of both. Then students can decide for themselves which one they believe. Evolution is not accepted! Just look at the controversy here! Of course it’s a mystery beyond comprehension. If it was within comprehension, everybody would know what they were talking about. Mr. Coontz- I don’t mean to override your explanation as you are an Educated Person and I am a middle schooler, but I have got a problem with it. Being of German descent, you are unquestionablely desended from Germans. But you are also yourself German. Assuming you are purely German, nothing has happened that has changed your appearance, and other sorts of things would be effected by evolution, from that of Germans in Germany. Humans are, according to some sources, descended from apes, but they certainately are not themselves apes. If mutations and natural selection gradually bred humans, then wouldn’t it follow that the new and improved homonids were better able to survive in their surroundings? So the old apes would have died out with the compotition of the new homonids. But they haven’t. So if the apes didn’t die out, then what would keep the new homonids from breeding with them and cancling out whatever helpful traits they had aquired? Zyviva- you forgot the part where man goes off to prove that black is white and is run over by some Large Vehicle.
Yeah. Atheism is just not believing a a certain God, just like you don’t believe in Ancient Greek gods and goddeses. (Unless you do.)
MuseBlog discussions are really for Muse readers. As a GAPA, I like to stay out of them except to answer direct questions, supply information, or point out logical errors (and sometimes make bad jokes). So about the difference between scientific theories and religious beliefs, I’ll just say that the recent trial in Dover, Pennsylvania, was a gold mine of information about evolution, intelligent design, creationism, and the nature of science. If you’re ever looking for a juicy current-events project for school, that one is unbeatable.
Now, down to specifics:
(1) My story about my German origins was just an analogy. Of course, my genes are still very similar to those of present-day Germans. The change that made my ancestors non-German was a political one. But given more time and different enough environments, genes can change in different ways.
Imagine a group of apes living in a forest. Some of them wander out of the woods and onto the plains of a nearby grassland. Over millions of years, the apes in the forest will become better tree-dwellers. The ones on the plain will become better ground-dwellers. Descendants of the forest apes and the grassland apes are bound to wind up looking very different–but that doesn’t mean that one of them had to replace the other. They both had ape ancestors, and they’re both still around, living in different places.
(2) Technically speaking (as biologists and paleontologists define the term), human beings are apes. We have bigger brains, less hair, a more upright posture, and less useful big toes than gorillas and chimpanzees do, but we still qualify as apes.
Back to you, Musers…
I am atheist.
where did we get the idea that there was a god?
now people (well, most people) think that say Norse gods do not exist. if you told a person living in the 1000’s that belived in norse gods, that they did not exist, you would turn into a bloody pulp. People now believe that their god exists, but will poeple in 100 years believe it? and if noone believes in a certain god, does that god exist?Buddism is the only religion that makes any sense at all, but i am not buddist, because i dont really know anything about it beyond the basics and noone has actually asked me to become a buddist. anyway, these are some of the reasons that i am atheist
D Q-#214.
anyone who is not atheist is saying the same thing, as the GAPA said. basically, atheists (or at least me) are saying that they do not know enough to be a part of any one religion. Noone can prove that there is or isnt any one god, therefore, we are all clueless
Umm… prove? As in, show a miricle? Ask for a heavenly voice? Okay, here goes: look at at an anatomy book. Go outside and touch a tree. Feed your fish. Read a book of philosophy. Kick your brother.
How does a jumble of seemignly random atoms sustain life, and even more, intelligence and reason? How can something that can’t think or move be alive? How can a simple creature convert little pellets made of dried worms into a life force? How can a bundle of nerves and cells and tissue muse about the meaning of life? How can that same bundle of nerves and tissue convert a physical kick into pain, and then anger? God is all around us, not only in the history books.
And by way, before everyone jumps on me, I BELIVE IN EVOLUTION. I just belive God caused it.
Oh man.
So that means you’re an agnostic, not a atheist.
To the best of my knowledge (correct me if I’m wrong), atheists say there is NO God or gods.
Agnostics, on the other hand, say that they MAY OR MAY NOT BE a God or gods.
Your “Noone can prove that there is or isnt any one god, therefore, we are all clueless” philosophy seems to me to be an agnostic view, not an athieistic view… right?
But what do I know? — I don’t have enough faith to be an athiest.
Mmmm, I’ve always thought that agnosticism was a type of athiest…
Norse, as it turns out, had a lot of disagreements and bad blood over Christianity vs. pagan beliefs. Erik, for example, was a pagan Norse with a Christian wife, and Thorleif was the same way. Thorleif was more entertaining, however, as he kept asking Thor for stuff, getting it, and laughing at the Christians preaching their spleens out. But I digress. I happen to like the Norse.
Agnostics seem kind of wishy-washy to me.
koko believes in a sort of uncommon lot of god like things. but, as ye’d all be bored to death if i began on the topic of timeheart and such, we’ll stay far away from that subject. 0_0
Ah, my spleen!
See the atheist-agnostic-deist thingy I posted a while ago. Should clear some things up.
to get in on what phoenix said, i belive in intelligent evalution. we evolved, but god was stirring the pot.
aslo- a note to ye non belivers- beliving in god and believing what people say about god are to entirely different things. for example, i believe in god, but i don’t think he is going to kill everyone who is not a part of my religion.
also- i think it is just human conciet that made every race think they were god’s chosen ones. maybe god is smart and chose non-polluting orcas over us concieted humans.
Just ignore Zyviva when she gets going about orcas or we will never have any peace.
Zyv, I think only Christians think people who are not Christains are going to hell. And certain Muslims (only SOME, don’t kill me) think Christians and Jews are abominatians and should be killed. Actually, I think there is a commandment in the Koran to kill Jews and a translation to kill Christians.
Bhuddists, as far as I know, don’t kill anybody.
The part of religion I don’t get is where it says “Thou shalt not kill,” (every religion says that somewhere) but then the followers of the different religions go and fight each other because they have different religions. Der.
A good book about religion is “godless” by Pete Hautman. It’s about a kid who decides to start worshipping a water tower and have a new religion. It was quite good.
If I wasn’t a Jew, I would be a Bhuddist.
Hey, do see Jews killing anyone in the name of religion? And don’t say Arabs, they’re trying to kill us, we’re defending ourself.
I’m sure the arabs say the exact same thing.
Okay, I’m normally fair and socially correct, right? So trust me when I say that Arabs belive that killing Jews is a commandment given to them by God. I’m sure there are Arabs who don’t belive this, positive, in fact, because when I lived in Israel in the middle of all this war, my best friend in the entire world was a Palestinian. But the Koran DOES say to kill Jews and ancient Muslim leaders said to kill Christians, too.
And yes, Judism DOES have the death penalty. But we DO NOT use it any more. Jewish criminal and civil cases in America are settled before American court. Period. And the death penalty is for things like cold blooded murder.
I’m not doubting you, Phoenix, I’m just saying that I’m sure the Arabs feel justified in whatever it is they’re doing and think that Jews are the ones with the strange rules.
And picking up sticks on Shabbos.
What Pheonix said. Zallie, hate to break it to ya, but most Arabs hate our guts. We wouldn’t have naything against em if they weren’t out to kill us. Do you see any Jewish suicide bombers?
Enough about religion. Let’s talk about cows. Or sheep.
Again, I’m not suggesting either of you are incorrect. All I’m saying is that I imagine the Arabs feel like Jews in general have done something wrong. I’m sure they fell that this killing you mentioned is justified one way or another. There are two sides to everything and I don’t think that one is getting enough light.
I’m sure you’re right. however, I’m having a hard time thinking of anything weve done to them they haven’t done to us first.
I like sheep! So everyone, to put it gently, SHUT UP ABOUT RELIGION ALREADY!!!! Thank you.
…is there something more important we could be debating?
Other than sheep, you mean?
what about the patriot act vs. free speech?
lucifer (243), thats shabbaT, with a ‘tuh’ at the end not shobbos *wince* shabbaTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT.
sry about that, my lovley pet peave.
we could be dabating the best kind of ckoklit,
which is of course, the one i’m eating- duh.
i hate super bowl sunday. everyone- i will be deaf tommorrow after listening to my brother scream for the next 1+ hour(s).
my poor poor ears.
The Super Bowl? Was that today? Hm, shows how much I care.
Here’s a hot topic for you: Professional Sports–Waste of Time, or Affront to Civilization?
Zyviva, I would be suprised if your house is still standing tomorrow after your brother gets through with it.
I say football is an affront to civilization. So is Rugby and hockey and polo and golf. Basketball is okay and so is baseball, although I can’t stand to play the former and the latter is more fun to play.
Do you know how much was spent on the 2005 Superbowl?
5.6 billion dollars!
I only care about the Superbowl for two reasons:
(1) There was a commercial made for the Superbowl starring MacGyver. (I saw it online yesterday.)
(2) If the Stealers win, I get five extra credit points in biology.
I like the Superbowl. We had a party. It was fun, even if Ryan was there.
The commercials were bad. The only good ones were the Budweiser ones, which I always like.
Stealer won, unfortuneatly.
I like football.
Shows how much us MuseBloggers know about football that it’s actually “Steelers,” I think, on account of their being from Pittsburgh. Team sports are stupid, especially the ones where you try and kill people and get paid millions of dollars for it instead of being put in jail for assault and battery. (Do they put you in jail for assault and battery?) I prefer the kinds of sports where you only have yourself to blame for how much you suck, like fencing.
Were the Eagles playing? B/c if they were, Zyviva, if she survived her brother in a Super-Bowl frenzy, and I are going to be killed by the Rabid Eagles fan in our class.
You go to court for assult and battery, if you are convicted you go to jail. Well, you go to jail right away depending on the crime and whether or not you are rich.
(if you haven’t noticed I am not too fond of the bail system.)
I only watch for the commercials. Which were very disappointing this year…
Backyard football is fun so don’t diss all football. Pro football on the other hand is amazingly stupid. College football can be pretty horrific too.
Especially since i live near enough to OSU that i am surrounded by insane fans, who, upon hearing that i used to live in MI, proceed to give me a death stare to end all death stare until i explain that i don’t like football much anyway (At which they shake their heads in disgust) but if i had to choose, it’d be MSU, not U of M. Then they release me from the spell of terror, and get back to going over every game play by play.
And i really hate how they stop every five seconds, and how they always pile on each other even after the play’s over.
Not all pro sports are bad though. I like watching the MLS (w00t! Go Crew!) and i occaisionally watch bball.
Most sports are great in theory and very entertaiining when played in the backyard form, but it’s just that everyone takes pro sports so seriously. Hello in there! IT’S A GAME! Why do people care about other people playing games? And there’s something about organized sports that just sort ruins it for me. I prefer playing with friends unofficially. I do watch some pro sports though. It’s amazing to see the talent of some of these people. I llike to watch the X games and of course the Olympics coming up. I like boxing. For some reason I like watching people beat the crap out of each other. On the whole I don’t like team sports that much. And spending loads of government money on pro sports is just ridiculous. I like sports that take real skill. (Except boxing which I have no idea why I like as it is a meat-head sport.) Like skateboarding. Anybody watch/do that? If all the fans were a LOT less competative about there favourite teams, things wouldn’t be so blown out of proportion.
I have a few skater friends.
Who thinks that professional sports players have way overblown salaries? MEEEEEEEEE!
Me thinks that too. Sheep are great. And Cows. On the front of a motor-cycle I saw: “save the manatees!!” On the back: “I love animals. They’re delicious.” What do you make of this person?
On the Archives page, it says that this thread has 370 posts. Why is this?
meeeeeeeee too
football is stupid in all varieties. Well, its okay, its just that other sports are so much more fun, like tennis soccer, and fencing (i have actually never fenced in my life but it sounds awesome.) (so does archery but i havnt trie d that either unless you count making bows out of bamboo and shooting them randomly.)
Bamboo? Never tried that, but I make bows occasionally out of sticks I cut off of bushes in the back yard. They only shoot like ten feet though, and I have to use cotton string which stretches horribly after you put it on. But string is cheating, I guess. Why back in my day, we didn’t have string. We had vines and sinews and we liked it! Hmph, new fangled doodads….
Phantom Norker, I don’t know why the Archives page said this thread had 370 posts yesterday. Weird.
I just looked now and it says this thread has 273 posts. That’s not true either.
Maybe Robert has programmed the site to give false tallies just to confuse us.
Or it’s a bug.
ooh yes the stick bows! Fun stuff…
it’s almost more fun making them than shooting them though, because they’re really sad. You have to re-string them like fifty million times and they still shoot about eight feet.
my friend’s grandpa is WAY into it though. Hard-core. Feathers and bits of metal and all…decent string. Yeah.
I made a boat out of bamboo and pop bottles once. It was for the boat regatta at the park. And i WON! (ok so i hitchiked on harriet’s most of the way…)
I like stick bows! Mine all fly way farther than eight feet! You must be really bad………
ohohohohohohohohohohohohohohoh!!!!!!!!!!!! we’re doing fincing in fitness and it is AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!