Originally suggested by Rainbow, who said:
“At some point, conditions on Earth will make the planet an undesirable place to live. Luckily, we Musers will have planned ahead and built ourselves a floating city. The thread is for designing and discussing the city, similar to the “Mostly Harmless Theme Park†thread.”
By multiple requests: no role-playing.
So if there’s no roleplaying, then how does this work?
I think we talk about how this city would be designed, where would we get food+water, etc., etc.
1 – It’s kind of like the reclusive gardens thread (I’m pretty sure that wasn’t roleplay).
It wasn’t supposed to be.
Ok, so how exactly are we planning on making the city float?
How about like Laputa? (Studio Ghibli: Castle in the Sky) Or have it in little islands all connected by bridges, with propellors on the bottoms to keep them up? And the propellors are powered by solar energy, or–I’ve got it! Motion energy~thus the propellors are powered by their own movement! Any votes on this?
Just for the record, Laputa started in Gulliver’s Travels. Another flying city of that name appeared in John Crowley’s book Engine Summer. (Crowley also wrote Little, Big, of which Alice and some other MBers are fans.)
Oh yeah, I’ve seen that! And Ponyo just came out, it’s good too. And I’ve seen Totoro and Howl’s Moving Castle. Question: how does Laputa stay up? Your propeller idea might work, but it would need big propellers and little islands: say, as big as one (tiny) house. And the bridges would rock in the wind. And the wind might mess with the propellers. And if there was a hurricane we’d be doomed. And if all my predictions are true, we need a better plan if all Musers are to survive there.
I think we should request funding for an Enceladus colony. Requirements:
-Heat source: Very cold up there. The temperature can reach about 65 degrees Kelvin The “warmest” areas are about 85 degrees Kelvin. (From NASA page on Enceladus)
-Food source: As it’s most likely that we are the last people surviving, we shouldn’t rely on outside sources for food. The heaters, however they are designed, should be located closest to where the food is grown. Hydroponic gardens?
-Funding: We aren’t even going to get off the ground if we don’t get a grant or something from some foundation. KaiYves, I think you can handle NASA.
-When: When we’ve grown up. I don’t think kids will be able to build a colony that goes where no one has gone before.
But i though Enceladus (the moon, not the child of Gaia) was covered in ice.
But as for getting there i think one of us MBers can infiltrate NASA, then we can all blast of as the earth reaches a HPB apocalypse.
65 degrees Kelvin: -208 degrees Celcius.
85 degrees Kelvin: -188 degrees Celcius.
Re: Colony on Mercury: If we did that, we’d need to handle extreme heat and cold, because it would bake us in the sunlight area, and freeze us in the cold area.
Re: Nuclear or Geothermal is the way to go. Geothermal is my vote, because it’s more self sustaining. We don’t need imports from the US to get there.
Re: Iamisthbest: I doubt the Bunny Apocalypse will ever come. Or that one of us could infiltrate NASA.
I have a idea for edible rocket fuel system!
We can melt the ice for water, though. And we can put a dome-thingy outside the civilization so the heat doesn’t escape… all in all, a pretty good plan! One question, though: Why don’t you think kids can do anything? *pouts* Kids are just as good as adults- better, in fact, when you take it into account that most Musers are kids!
Well, Enceladus is much farther from the sun than Earth, so solar power isn’t going to work optimally, although it could be used in combination with some other source. Nuclear is an option, as is geothermal, since Enceladus is geologically active.
I think a colony on Mercury would be good.
5- Nuclear! No way. The city should be clean. What about having a floating floating city, a sort of space station that orbits planets, picking up whatever we need from space stations (assuming NASA has built several). A sort of stellar tall ship, with motion and stellar energy. A city in a sort of giant fishbowl. *is crazy*
Geothermal is cleaner. No deadly waste. No uranium imports requires.
Giant fishbowl: Good idea! But not picking up what we need. Pirating, but leaving the equivalent money in return. We go in, take what we need, and in it’s place put a pile of cash. The fishbowl should be a donut, spinning, so centrifugal force acts like gravity. Living space at the perimeter. It should have recreation, nearer to the center, and computer access, with internet.
Very good, but you spelled its wrong.
Where do we get the money to leave huge piles in place of million-dollar machines?!
I’m confused (already). Are you talking about a floating city, a flying city, an Enceladus colony, a floating or flying city on Enceladus, or a space ship? (Geothermal energy might be possible for one of those options, but not the others.)
All three at the same time (at least, I was).
The geothermal energy for the flying city would be interesting. And enormous tether, that puls the heat & steam up?
f+h: Why do we need to steer? We can float about, directionless, like a hot air ballon. An enormous tethered together hot air ballon colony? Or, the city could have enormous legs which walk about.
When the conditions become inhospitible, we’ll need to have air refreshers.
I’d go live in the floating city. I’ll go live there, if needed.
Or perhaps a floating country?
Ok, that would be fine too, but what if we were headed straight towards a tornado? Just drift along and hope we don’t die?
Geo thermal would not work for a flying/floating city. And we would need to steer to not run into a mountain.
I suggested something earlier about how we could power it.
Motion Energy? What is that supposed to mean?
You know, like windmills!
That’s wind energy.
Or we could float high enough we don’t run into mountains.
No…Low density air.
It would theoretically. Just not efficiently.
*leaves*
-A
I was thinking of having robotic stations on the surface of Enceladus, collecting the energy and beaming it up to the floating city.
Okayyyyy…
I’m talking about a flying city. Ooh! We need to design a way to steer it around! Hmm?
This is giving a lot of idea for a RRR/Script. Anybody want to help?
I vote for Script and I wanna be one of the writers please!
As I recall, Rainbow and others specifically said this thread wasn’t supposed to turn into a fictional adventure.
Yes, but we could have another thread?
This early in the planning stage, I don’t think a second thread would be fair to this one.
True.
Am I the only one here to whom motion energy makes sense?
In a place with an atmosphere, yes.
Well I thought the floating city was on Earth….
How would you explain that to the tourists?
Asteroids, maybe?
Asteroids are too small to have an atmosphere. The moon barely has one, how could an asteroid?
Also, GAPAs, could you change the name of this thread to “MuseBlog Interplanetay Colony Design”?
Is everybody agreed that that is what you’re doing now?
The reason it doesn’t work is first, it doesn’t work all the time, and second, that would create friction. It would be like having a perpetual motion machine that gives out energy. Sorry.
I wasn’t planning for here, I thinking partial scripts/BiP
This is a planning thread.
Okay, we should back off the Enceladus thing because of the title of the thread. Anyway, we could have a city which is a giant airfoil and runs on nuclear and solar power.
Enceladus was one of the original ideas submitted for the thread. If you look back at the suggestion box, you’ll find that I was there, and other people were agreeing Enceladus would be a good colony.
Colonization options, pros and cons:
Mercury
Pro:
Insanely potent solar power can be captured on the day side and sent to the night.
Low gravity makes transit between floating city and planetary surface easy.
Magnetic field similar to Earth’s to aid navigation and keep out cosmic rays.
Con:
Extreme temperature variation between day side and night side.
No atmosphere to slow down pesky meteors.
Very hot.
Luna (Earth’s Moon)
Pro:
Close to Earth, travel time of only a few days.
Possible water ice in polar craters.
Helium-3 can be mined from the surface to produce fuel.
Lowest gravity of all listed targets.
Con:
No magnetic field.
No atmosphere.
Geologically dead.
Proximity to Earth may leave it vulnerable to HPB expansion. (But if used in combination with other cities further out, not as much of a problem)
Mars
Pro:
Has an atmosphere, including fast winds that could provide power.
Can be made Earth-like.
CONFIRMED water ice at poles.
Geologically active.
Six-month journey from Earth with current tech, compared to years for Mercury or outer planets.
Metallic soil can provide building materials.
Con:
Dust storms could cut the city off and prevent gathering of solar power.
Strongest gravity on list.
No significant magnetic field.
Terraforming would take many years.
Enceladus
Pro:
Has an atmosphere.
Has water ice, including organics.
Geologically active.
Low gravity.
Con:
Very cold.
Far from the sun, solar power’s not an option.
Some chance of life under the surface ice, don’t want to contaminate/disturb.
Aeroponic food chamber?
Here’s an idea: what about at the bottom of the ocean? We could have a giant glass air bubble around the whole city. And we could build it near a magma vent, so we could dump our trash into the mantle and have it incinerated. Also, the vents would let us use geothermal energy to power our city.
Enormous pressure. The magma would also be solidifying every second.
Bad idea. Underwater volcanos, an island will grow there, and pressure from the water above will soon crack the dome.Try floating it.
Solar would be good. Is this floating city on water or up in the sky? If it’s on water, we could use chinampas–little floating islands of dirt that the Aztecs used to grow food.
A giant, clear, sphere, with artificial gravity pulling us toward a mini-planet at the center.
A tube around the world, miles and miles above the ground.
A UFO-type city, always directly above a chosen point.
An artificial moon, with countless crawl ways leading to the center, where a mysterious artifact awaits.
I could go on for hours. This is fun.
*is Miyazaki addict* The first thing I thought of when I saw the title of the thread was Laputa… hehe. It would be so awesome if we could build something like that!
But, I also like an underwater city like Rainbow said. I also think a system of caves would be really cool. We could build it on an asteroid!
3.1- As a Muse fan, you should know you can’t get Something for Nothing so movement energy couldn’t work.
RQ-If it’s on an asteroid, wouldn’t it be underground?
What if we had a city (possibly under ice or water) on a habitable moon of Jupiter’s? There’s got to be one.
Yeah, it would. It would still be floating, though.
ENCELADUS!!! (Well, it’s a moon of Saturn, but same diff.)
Encleadus, you might be thinking of Europa, one of Jupiter’s moons.
And there’s also Enceladus, one of Saturn’s moons. Similar to Europa, with more Geothermal Activity.
Miyazaki addict too!!!!! and that’s exactly what I was thinking. Also the gorillaz music video for feel good inc.
What about food?
An aeroponic food chamber will do.
17- We can grow plants hydroponically or with chinampas, and take along equipment to turn some of it into meat substitutes. (The really good kind where you can’t tell the difference.)
Eh, that might work….
Send robots to sap water on Europa?
4.1.1- I thought the concept here is that we are designers FOR NASA (Or some international umbrella/future descendant agency) planning this out.
16.1.2.1- Well, Enceladus could possibly have an ocean by the same principles as Europa.
I thought the concept is that we actually are planning this, and hope to actually do it.
21.1-Yes, but there are lots of little things we need to plan,like where (probably not on Earth *coughHPBtakeovercough*) how, what to do for food (Love the ideas, KaiYves!), etc, etc, and we got sidetracked a little.
How big should it be? How long can it last? Wil it be mobile? Immobile? Some strange combination? How will we travel from place to place within the city? What about pets? I could go on forever, but I won’t.
Heh, and now that’s confirmed. I was in the know!
(Also, see the comment about “possible water ice” at the lunar poles in #12– also now confirmed!)
I like the idea of a spinning fishbowl to create artificial gravity, the inside could look something like the O’Neil Torus here (remove the spaces):
http:// en.wikipedia. org/wiki/ File: Internal_view_of_the_Stanford_torus. jpg
If we keep the water and oxygen storage/creation equipment on the outside of the city, that will help keep out radiation.
That’s cool. Where in this universe, though?
Everyone: Enceladus has asked (10.2.1.1.1.1.2.1) us to rename this thread to focus on designing an interplanetary colony. Do you all agree that that’s what you’re doing now?
Well… Maybe it could be either? Floating City/Interplanetary Colony Design Thread? Long name, but fits it fairly well…
Interplanetary can include Earth.
Idea: How about we use the floating Earth colony as a launch point for other colonies?
Which would imply we’re building multiple cities? Why stop there? Everyone can design their own city, floating or on another planet/moon!
Okay, so I’m half joking. It’s still an idea.
I really don’t object to the renaming of the thread. I can still use it for floating cities.
Maybe we could broaden the category, and make it the ‘City Design Thread’. Or the ‘Cities In Exotic Locales Design Thread’ Or the ‘Cities Not On Earth Design Thread’. I’ll stop now, before I overwhelm you.
Or one of us could build the Earth Colony, and we each create our own offshoots, or in small teams. I think I’ll (try to) write a story or script based on that, but it won’t be here, it’ll be on the Partial Scripts/Bip. I think script. All interested, head to Partial Scripts.
Brilliant! (I’m only 9)
Oh, yes. We are mainly focusing on where to put it, but not really designing it.
SFTDP and the randomness of this post, but I’m thinking about changing my MuseBlogging name. Any suggestions? I just want some thoughts, please.
Name changes are annoying. Don’t change.
Ok, I’m thinking of doing a RRR-script, based on the Floating City Design Thread. I know f+h is helping, and anyone can join, if they know the Design thread.
Basic Plot: It begins with the launch of a new city, and extra solar one this time. the int proceeds into a history, and how MuseBloggers made the floating Earth city as a launch city. The next bit is for the story, and in it, the floating city is losing power, and beginning to fall to the ground. The hero, antagonist, and hero’s friends will be introduced at the end, in “present day”, 2070. Movie. If you have any additions, let me know. The year of the movie will be 60 years ahead of whenever it’s shown. I’m hoping someone will make an animation version
Setting, Dark Screen. A cheering crowdfades in, with NARRATOR, standing at a podium.(secretly RAINBOW’S DAUGHTER, to be introduced when the story starts)
NARRATOR: 50 years ago today, in 2020, a group, known as the MuseBloggers, founded the floating city you live in today. And, to commemorate the event, we are launching a new colony. And it’s a colony greater than we’ve ever had before. This is a colony that goes far beyond the reach of our sun. It is three light years away, and, we will colonize it!
(The camera zooms out. We hear unintelligible speech. We see that the city is a flying city, and the bottom is a flat plane. We then hear the Narrator yell “Let the launch begin!” A sphere shoots up out of the city, going amazingly fast. The camera follows it, and shows the people in it a cryogenicaly frozen, wearing contented smiles. We zoom back to the city, and see it as a bright dot, flying up above.)
I meant to post that on Partial Scripts! Sorry.
It should be pretty and have lots of lights. Solar powered ones. And recycling, and compost, and hippie-like vibes of peace, love, and free hugs.
*hugs all in sight*
Nah.It should be as earthy as possible.
24.2.1.1- *sigh* fine
Yeah! *hugs* The recycling+compost would save a lot of energy.
24.1.1- That’s a good idea, it lessens travel times to have somewhere to stage from.
12 – Another pro for Enceladus: Scientists saw something believed to be a geyser of liquid water in a thermal photo of the moon.
If I had a Gravatar, there’s an awesome picture of Enceladus that I’d use.
What sort of government should our community have? Strict laws? Just run around being a happy anarchy? Or somewhere in between?
Well, the government we have on Earth seems to be good, so we could use that one.
SFTDP I meant to say US, sorry!
The Greek Democracy, where every person was part of the assembly, seemed to work the best. Every person, no matter of status, gender, or race, must go to the assembly to vote. At the beginning, obvious things would be outlawed, such as murder, rape, arson, things that ruin someone’s life.
Punishment: For the worst crimes, the ones we institute at the beginning, being expelled from the colony, either to Earth, or if the bunnies take over, a rehabilitation colony, where people are rehabilitated into productive members of society.
Or send them to Earth to be bunnified if it was a really bad crime.
Send them Elsewhere? *demonic grin*
(No, I don’t mean we should do that.)
Somewere inbetween
OOPS!
30.2- I think the rehabilitation colony sounds like a good idea. For lesser crimes, some form of extra labor or service.
I like the idea of this thread as a thread where we design many strange cities. (Like those in Italo Calvino’s Imaginary Cities)
Ideas for levitation:
Enormous air jets that blow below the city
Pro: Proven technology, Easy to build, Can be moved
Con: Enormous amount of power necessary
Giant Fan
Pro: Proven technology, Could be built, Can be moved
Con: Really hard to build
Magnetic levitation, With the city magnetized one way, and the ground below it is magnetized in concentric bands, with one one way, the other the other way, so it won’t float away and fall
Pro: Simple
Con: Hard to build, unproven
How about an island in the middle of the ocean, miles from any country?
Floating over the island, or just a city on the island?
Could be either … but what would be the point of floating it over the island?
The conditions are not suited for living. Unless we make a glass bubble and put floating manmade islands. We could put holes in the glass that is filtered through oxygen cleaners.
*revives thread* Oh, cake, no one has posted here since last year. COME BACK!!!!!!
So, here’s what we have so far, I think;
–The Greek Democracy as a form of government
–Several types of punishments, ranging from hard labor to rehabilitation
–Most likely on on Earth (I think Europa, one of Jupiter’s moons is a likely target. There’s supposed to be lots of warm ocean underneath the ice.)
–Most likely floating
We should also have our own currency of money.
Yeah! Someone should draw a picture.
Will Do!
I suggest a city in the earth’s atmosphere supported by helium tanks outfitted with filteration technology that would take in extra helium from the surrounding air. It would be weighted on the bottomn to avoid being flipped over and we could use big sails to steer.
@You Are Never Safe Without A Towel:
Called widgets.
And some swimming pools with liquid air, which we can breathe in. Finally, swimming where I can lounge around the bottom of the pool.
That sounds cool! Nice avatar, by the way.
Thanks. I just googled “pie”.
But doesn’t oxygen become a liquid at -297 degrees F?
I thin what I meant by liquid was “dense enough to act like one”. A pressurized atmosphere that was 90% xenon would be dense enough for this and we could still breathe properly.
Huh, I think a spambot popularized this thread. Nevertheless, it looks good. Spambots have good taste.
I’m thinking something like the cities in Castle in the Sky, but made entirely of chocolate. Sorry. I’m hungry.
Actually, chocolate cities doesn’t seem like a bad idea on another planet where it was cold enough that melting wasn’t a problen. Of course, the entire city would have to be chocolate factories in ordre to get enough chocolate to repair the parts that people ate.
By flying city, i was actually thinking more like the one in Girl Genius, if anyone’s read that, like a giant city on a platform held up by chains to multiple blimps, or like the city in the Edge Chronicles which is built on a material so light that it floats if such a material solid enough to build a city on were ever found.
We could clone large herbivorous dinosaurs, and use them for public transportation and pets!
… What?
I actually think that’s a good idea. Pterasaurs too, for air transport. If you’re still discussing the flying city, you’ll need something to reach the ground.
I am actually thinking of something that’s Dinotopia meets Laputa, actually. A very large, open city with lots of parks that also serve to grow food and Romanesque columns–sorry, it’s not made of chocolate anymore. Chocolate is still a very important part of the culture, though, if a bit rare because its difficult to grow at such high elevations. It would be eaten at every feast-day.
We could also use one of the calenders from that thread, and a changed alphabet and other stuff too.
The idea for this thread reminds me somewhat of Invisible Cities, by Italo Calvino.