Evolution, v. 2007.2

Several MBers say they’d like to discuss evolutionary ideas about the history of life and how organisms have changed over time. That’s what this thread is for.

No heckling, please; let’s try to keep things peaceful this time. Also, please avoid off-topic posts. If you want to talk about topics that evolution does not cover, such as the Big Bang theory, the origin of life, or supernatural ideas beyond the reach of science, please go to the Origins and Beginnings thread.

Date: May 25, 2007

Author: Robert Coontz (Administrator)

Categories: Life, The Universe

Comments RSS TrackBack 216 comments

1

Alice/Rhoda/Elderseventh

in May 25th, 2007 @ 13:04

Sweet! New thread! That doesn’t have arguing! Now, will someone refresh my memory? Do blind cavefish have eyes?

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E2MB

in May 25th, 2007 @ 13:55

1 – No. They live in complete darkness, so they have no need for eyes.

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3

Alice

in May 25th, 2007 @ 14:39

2- Thought so.

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4

Lizzie

in May 25th, 2007 @ 14:53

They have eyes, but they aren’t functional.

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Robert Coontz (Administrator)

in May 25th, 2007 @ 15:09

Biology isn’t my field. As I recall, though, there are ~~dozens of~~ almost a hundred different kinds of blind cave fish in different parts of the world, and they have various types and degrees of non-eyes. I think most of them have at least traces of eyes, covered with skin and tissue. It would be an interesting research project for someone to poke around on the Web and find out.

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6

Alice

in May 25th, 2007 @ 15:22

Here’s an evolution/fish question: Why do a flounder’s eyes move across its head?

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7

Der Wachtelschlag

in May 25th, 2007 @ 15:55

Animals do not adapt. They are selected.

Just a thought.

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8

The Insane Blue Sage

in May 25th, 2007 @ 15:58

on an un-fishy track, its really sad, most of the people in my state don’t belive in evolution.

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9

Robert Coontz (Administrator)

in May 25th, 2007 @ 16:09

Then we won’t see them on this thread.

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10

Jadestone

in May 25th, 2007 @ 16:21

6- Because that way they can see when they’re all flat on the ground, though how they do I don’t know. Why they’re not just borne like that, however, is a very good evolutionary question. Interesting…

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11

Prarilius Canix

in May 25th, 2007 @ 16:36

I know this is going to be a mostly serious thread, but nothing should have to be entirely serious if it is within the power of humankind to prevent it. So, for those of you who would like a break from the blazing creation/evolution debate, here’s today’s Ridiculous Burning Question(RBQ): How did hot pink bunnies evolve?

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12

Robert Coontz (Administrator)

in May 25th, 2007 @ 16:44

HPBs didn’t evolve. They’re the product of a diabolical genetic-engineering experiment gone awry.

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13

SuperSaiyajin424

in May 25th, 2007 @ 17:01

6 – oh! oh! pick me! flounder’s eyeses move across their bodies bcoz their entire bodies are flat, and when they are old enough, their eyez move across their “face”. that way, when they combine their flat bodies, muddy-colored skin, and double-vision, they make a very good stake-out type creature. they can hide on the ocean bottom and wait for smaller fishies to swim by, then snap! their camouflage also works really well if they’re hiding from predators.

did you know that whales evolved from creatures that walked on land, and that their fins (the whales’, that is) evolved from the legs/appendages of their ancestors? tis fr00dy.

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14

Alice/Rhoda/Elderseventh

in May 25th, 2007 @ 17:02

11- Good philosophy!

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15

SupremeMuser2000, The All Mighty Queen of Museicalifornia

in May 25th, 2007 @ 17:36

I accept the idea of evolution. No one else at my school does, well, they’re Christian, so….. yeah. Its hard to agree with two completely different things at the same time.

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16

agagabagabag

in May 25th, 2007 @ 17:55

7- No.

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17

Prarilius Canix

in May 25th, 2007 @ 18:31

12- I must research this genetic experiment. I’m moving this topic to Origins and Beginnings, because if they didn’t evolve, they have no place on this thread.

There they go, just to prove me wrong. I’ll go, before the PoPoPo jump on me.

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18

sir Lamorak the Great

in May 25th, 2007 @ 20:51

I SOOO do not believe in evolution! It’s so weired! a bunch of apes turning human??!!

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19

Robert Coontz (Administrator)

in May 25th, 2007 @ 21:21

If everything in the world were obvious and easy to grasp, then we wouldn’t need science.

A lot of things you learn in science class are pretty weird, when you think about them. And they seemed a lot weirder before people had time to get used to them.

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20

Red-tailed HAWK

in May 26th, 2007 @ 07:22

I present to you, my blog friends, the theory of natural selection. Any thoughts?

I will be glad to explain it if some people don’t understand it.

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21

SuperSaiyajin424

in May 26th, 2007 @ 08:04

18 – it’s not actually so hard to believe if it’s explained step-by-step, which i can’t do because i’m not that smart and i’m too lazy to research it. the extent of my knowledge is that humans did not actually evolve from apes, but are actually descended from a common ancestor. as time went on, this common ancestor evolved into different types of primates, including gorillas, orangutans, “monkeys”, and apes. this probably happened because the ancestors of all these primates separated into different groups and evolved differently depended on factors such as climate, vegetation, and other sentient beings. [wild animals, if you will.]

whew, that was a long explanation. i know i am truly a geek, because i get this weird thrill from typing something that i know will get read by many others.

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22

SuperSaiyajin424

in May 26th, 2007 @ 08:05

let’s not turn this into a religions thread, people.

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23

Robert Coontz (Administrator)

in May 26th, 2007 @ 08:32

Jadestone is (or was) reading The Origin of Species. I wonder how that’s going. Jadestone?

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24

Julieb

in May 26th, 2007 @ 09:45

12- That explains alot.

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25

Purple Panda

in May 26th, 2007 @ 10:44

This is from a wikipedia article about a specific type of blind cave fish:
A. mexicanus is famous for its blind cave form, which is known by such names as blind cave tetra, blind tetra, and blind cavefish. Some thirty distinct populations of Mexican tetras live in deep caves and have lost the power of sight and even their eyes. These fish can still, however, find their way around by means of their lateral lines, which are highly sensitive to fluctuating water pressure.
The eyed and eyeless forms of A. mexicanus, being members of the same species, are closely related and can interbreed. Astyanax jordani, however, is another blind cave fish, independently and recently evolved from the sighted surface form, which is sometimes confused with the cave form of A. mexicanus. However, when born, the cave dwelling form of A. mexicanus has eyes. As they grow older, skin just grows over them and the eyes degenerate completely, because there is no need for sight in the pitch-black world of a cave.

Here’s some information from another site, about how they use Blind cave fish for research:
That which it lacks is what makes this fish so interesting. Having neither eyes or skin pigmentation hasn’t hurt the popularity of the Blind Cave Fish a bit. It’s unique lack of eyes has caused it to be used in studies to determine the impact of lens transplants. Information gained in those studies may one day contribute to the development of eye transplants in humans.

And lastly, some more information about blind cave fish:
Easily the most novel fish commonly available today, the Blind Cave fish is named for what it lacks – eyes.
Although totally devoid of eyes, they have an uncanny ability to navigate adeptly, apparently by bouncing sound waves off objects around them. Originating from deep caves in Mexico, where the lack of light and predators has made vision un-necessary.
Eyes are not the only feature this fish lacks, this unique fish is also without pigmentation, taking on a pink hue from the blood vessels beneath the skin. The lack of eyes and color have not lessened it’s popularity. Active, peaceful and easy to care for, the Blind Cave fish makes an interesting addition to a community tank.
Recently, studies have been conducted to see if eye development could be stimulated. Surprisingly, when lenses from sighted fish were transplanted to the Blind Cave fish, it began to develop an eye. It is hoped that further study of this phenomenon may prove useful in treating blindness in humans.

A lot of this information is repetitive, but oh well…

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26

Alice

in May 26th, 2007 @ 11:01

WHAT! They’re going to put fish eyes in blind humans? Or just lenses?

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27

E2MB

in May 26th, 2007 @ 14:14

To me, genetic engenerring is scientists playing god. They’re intelligently designing stuff just like god but their not as smart as god so they do bad things like create HPBs……

*realizes this doesn’t belong here*
*heads over to Origions and Beginnings thread*

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28

Jadestone

in May 26th, 2007 @ 14:31

26- No, no, it wouldn’t be fish eyes in humans. It’d probably be other human eyes (organ doners) or an animal closer related to us

23- Eh, it’s getting better. The first chapter was hard to get through, but then you get more used to the style and wording. I havn’t read it this week since sunday because I had finals, and was reading textbooks instead. I’ll probably start again later today.

You know, if it was any other book I’d be done five times by now. Even with the size 9 font.

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29

Jadestone

in May 26th, 2007 @ 14:33

27- I think some genetic engenering is okay, like where they could stop diseases like muscular dystrophy from being present in a child, because that’s ensuring the child a better life. However, I am against things like shoice of eye color, hair color, ect.

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30

E2MB

in May 26th, 2007 @ 14:40

29 – Of course. Then naturally blonde/brown/black/red hair, green/brown/blue eyes wouldn’t be so special anymore. If you could build a human the way you wanted it, people wouldn’t be so amazing anymore. You could just create one just like them.

Totally immoral from my viewpoint.

Though preventing painful diseases in humans would be something good.

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31

FrigidSymphony .:[Blackjack Guillotine]:.

in May 26th, 2007 @ 14:53

I have no problem with genetic engineering, and it could be used to make a bunch of things better.

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32

Alice

in May 26th, 2007 @ 18:57

28- You took me seriously. I wasn’t being serious. I was just playing ignorant/sarcastic, with emphasis on the latter.

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33

Purple Panda

in May 26th, 2007 @ 19:50

I don’t think they should be able to do eyecolor, etc., but they won’t do that. I think it is a great idea, because they could help cure so many diseases. I think that and stem cell research, etc., is a fantastic idea.

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34

E2MB

in May 26th, 2007 @ 19:58

33 – The only problem with stem cell research is it costs a heck of a lot of money. And guess where that money comes from…….

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35

agagabagabag

in May 26th, 2007 @ 21:18

18- Don’t be so ignorant.

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36

Julieb

in May 27th, 2007 @ 11:58

34- It’s worth it.

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37

Sweet Melpomene

in May 27th, 2007 @ 19:07

27- And how would the creation of HPBs be a bad thing? I have no qualms with it; I’m all for it. If humankind can create god, why stop there? Why not be god? I speak metaphorically, of course.

But is genetic engineering and all really a part of evolution?

How many humanoid species were there? Like in the same…genus? [the homo bit of homo sapiens is the genus, yes? I’m really not a bio person at all, do forgive my ignorance if any of this is incorrect.]

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38

Jadestone

in May 27th, 2007 @ 20:03

Yup, in the scientific name Homo sapiens Homo is the genus. All the other species in it are extinct (well, no duh there, but yeah). There were the Neandrethals (Homo neanderthalensis) and Homo floresiensis was the subject of a major Muse article a while ago (“Where Did Flo Go?”). I think gorrilas and chimpanzies are in the same family as we are.

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39

Otzi

in May 27th, 2007 @ 21:44

There are those who would argue that we’ve already screwed up evolution simply by the existence of the medical sciences.

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40

Elizabeth Sescilla

in May 28th, 2007 @ 12:26

Does anyone know of a website where there is discussion against the “Incredible Creatures That Defy Evolution” DVD? Something that specifically addresses the things Dr. Martin talks about point by point?

I am not a scientist, but I do believe in evolution. It is happening all around us every day. Just because we don’t have an answer as to how a step here or there occurred doesn’t blow the whole theory…it just means there is more to learn.

Besides…we have a lot more evidence to support evolution than we do for creation. I really have a problem with the argument that “It just is b/c God made it that way”…how convenient to have a theory that doesn’t have to be proven.

Just my two cents…

If anyone knows of a website like I am looking for, please email me privately also in case I don’t see it in this thread after I leave here. Thanks!!!

Elizabeth Sescilla
[E-mail address snipped. Ms. Sescilla: I’ll be happy to forward any information people post. This isn’t a general-interest website, though, and we don’t encourage direct communication outside the blog. –Robert Coontz, Administrator]

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41

Glassboro

in May 28th, 2007 @ 12:59

38- I still hate the cover of that issue, and I have two of them somehow.

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42

Otzi

in May 28th, 2007 @ 17:10

41: that one freaked me out! it was just sitting there, kind of lurking in the bottom of the mailbox…

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43

Glassboro

in May 29th, 2007 @ 16:13

Don’t remind me.

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44

Robert Coontz (Administrator)

in May 29th, 2007 @ 16:37

It was more like an October cover, wasn’t it?

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45

Glassboro

in May 29th, 2007 @ 17:05

Yeah. What month was it? I’m not about to go look at it…

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46

'Dotty-kay

in May 29th, 2007 @ 18:24

40: Do you read Muse or did you stumble here on accident? I can’t imagine how the latter could happen, as that DVD has only been mentioned here 5 million times…

What’s a general-interest website? Does that mean we’re crazy?

41-45: I thought it was a good kind of creepy. It was sitting in our living room for ages and scared my dad.

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47

SuperSaiyajin424

in May 30th, 2007 @ 14:24

40 – just my point on the religions thread. just because something is unexplainable doesn’t mean it’s a miracle. it just means we have more to learn.

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48

Der Wachtelschlag

in May 30th, 2007 @ 18:25

2 PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENTS

ONE
Monkeys have tails. Apes do not have tails. That’s the difference. This is a very important fact.

TWO
Animals do not adapt to their environment. Animals are selected

I find it sad that there are still people in the world who do not accept evolution. On the other hand, the Flat Earth society is still thriving.

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49

Robert Coontz (Administrator)

in May 30th, 2007 @ 18:30

Are the Geoplanarians (flat-Earthers) still based in Zion, Illinois? If so, you could visit them.

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50

E2MB

in May 30th, 2007 @ 18:41

45 – February 2006.

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51

Red-tailed HAWK

in May 30th, 2007 @ 18:57

They still think the Earth is FLAT?!?!?!?!? Bu-bu-but what about pictures astronauts have taken, or the fact that you can’t see beyond a certain point over the sea??? How do they explain that?

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52

E2MB

in May 30th, 2007 @ 19:07

51 – They say the photos are fakes and that our eyes aren’t strong enough to see farther. Either that or they think the atmosphere prevents us from seeing farther. *shrugs* I think most everybody can aggree that the earth is round. But that’s something that is, not something that’s happened (like evolution).

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53

dark duke of darkness

in May 31st, 2007 @ 20:51

52-umm what? evolution isnt past tense. it is.
49-zion, illonios? isnt that… oxymoronic?

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54

'Dotty-kay

in June 1st, 2007 @ 22:44

49: Nope, not since the 50’s. At least according to Wiki.

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55

Jadestone

in June 2nd, 2007 @ 11:53

Re-posted from old thread, as no one wanted to talk about it there. It’san article from Muse I’d be interested in discussing.

“LAMARCK VINDICATED?
An 18th-century French biologist named Jean-Baptiste Lamarck has become a figure of fun because he believed that “aquired traits” could be passed on. The example of “Lamarckism” textbooks always give is long-necked giraffes: Lamarck suggested that giraffes that stretched their necks to reach high leaves would have offspring with slightly longer necks.
One scientist claimed to have disproved Lamarck’s ideas by chopping off the tails of hundreds of mice. The tailess mice had offspring with tails, which the scientist said proved aquired traits were not passed down.
But Lamarck may have the last laugh. He may have been right, at least sme of the time. Those long-necked giraffes are probably a figment of his imagination, but other cases arn’t so clear. For example, several old experiments showed that if generations of mice learned to navigate a maze, he third generation learned it faster than the second, which learned it faster than the first. Could there be some kind of epignetic change that makes it easier for each generation to learn the maze?
We still don’t know the answer. To find out, scientists will have to go back and repeat the experiment. It will no longer do to laugh haughtily and chop tails off mice.”

I don’t know who wrote it, it was a side-article. Diana Lutz wrote the main one, though, so maybe she did that one too. When I find the responce I wrote on it for extra credit in bio, I’ll type it up and post it.
I’d like to know what you all think, though.

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56

Piggy

in June 2nd, 2007 @ 12:53

Okay, people, remember that the book of Genesis was written hundred and thousands of years after the time period it was set in, and furthermore, the Bible is not a science book. God didn’t actually sculpt a human out of mud and breath life into him. God designed evolution as part of His creation. The two ideas, creation and evolution, are mutual, and each is necessary to the other.

Glad we got that cleared up.

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57

FrigidSymphony .:[Blackjack Guillotine]:.

in June 3rd, 2007 @ 13:13

56: The creationists deny evolution, saying that we were never monkeys. Apparently there are still many people who take the bible literally. Creationism states that man was put on this earth the way he is, and didn’t evolve from in inferior life form. However, since the Christian God does not exist, it’s no good.
Evolution cannot have been ‘created’, as the idea is that everything evolves from something else. Now, we may not know what evolved into what we have now, but it definitely wasn’t God, as the idea of God is something infinite, and therefore impossible.

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58

Robert Coontz (Administrator)

in June 3rd, 2007 @ 13:59

Please stop using this thread for anti-religious trolling.

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59

FrigidSymphony .:[Blackjack Guillotine]:.

in June 3rd, 2007 @ 14:07

As soon as the others stop using it for pro-religious trolling, thank you very much. As long as there are always people promoting falsehood and lies, I will be there to counter it.

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60

Jadestone

in June 3rd, 2007 @ 14:16

56- That belongs on Origins and Beginings, not here. That’s why we made the other thread.

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61

Robert Coontz (Administrator)

in June 3rd, 2007 @ 14:30

I’m starting to think that nobody on the blog really wants to discuss evolution. They just want something to argue about. If the thread can’t stay on topic, then there’s no need for it, and we might as well close it down.

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62

Red-tailed HAWK

in June 3rd, 2007 @ 14:33

PLEASE READ THE ORIGIN OF SPECIES!!!!!!!!!!!!

61-I think we can stay on topic, if the off-topic comments are zapped.

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63

FrigidSymphony .:[Blackjack Guillotine]:.

in June 3rd, 2007 @ 14:33

I will answer to any pro-religious arguments, regardless of whatever thread its on. So come on, move the argument to the other thread.

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64

FrigidSymphony .:[Blackjack Guillotine]:.

in June 7th, 2007 @ 15:05

Hey, remember the italian comedian who was labelled a terrorist for criticizing the vatican? One joke was: “Of course the Vatican doesn’t believe in evolution, it never evolved!”

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65

Alice

in June 7th, 2007 @ 21:22

55- *snort* I like that last line. “It will no longer do to laugh haughtily and chop tails off mice.” It’s a freaky and not-at-all-nice image: This guy in an Edwardian suit laughing haughtily and wielding a huge knife. Of course, he wasn’t Edwardian, but that’s what I think of when I see that. It’s the kind of thing the Edwardians would have done. Anyway, about that theory . . . I don’t know. It makes sense, in a way, but not quite THAT much sense. I mean, I like the one about mice that learned the maze, but not about giraffes who were born with long necks. The mice learning the maze is kind of like us. After all, if we didn’t learn anything from our forbears, we would be right back at the beginning, learning to light fires.

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66

Alice

in June 7th, 2007 @ 21:48

Oops I meant Victorian.

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67

Vendaval

in June 12th, 2007 @ 16:28

Don’t know if this has been said, but I was wondering if in a few hundred years, will most people have darker skin, ect.? (I think it’s dominant). Travel is so much easier now.

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68

Fortune Cell

in June 18th, 2007 @ 23:32

65- When you said the line about us learning from our forbears, I immediately pictured a mice, home after a long day of maze-running talking to his family and friends: “okay! so it’s right, right, left, right, left, left….”
and I cracked up a little.
XD

Also, on the subject of blind cavefish, has anyone heard of the Van Zyl’s golden mole? It’s a critically endangered mole that doesn’t have eyes. Well, more accuately, the eyes are under the skin. Ditto on the ears.

67- That’s assuming we’re still around in a couple hundred years.
Yipes.

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69

Red-tailed HAWK

in June 19th, 2007 @ 19:10

Let’s keep this thread alive, people!!!

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70

E2MB

in June 20th, 2007 @ 18:39

69 – What more is there to talk about?

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71

Red-tailed HAWK

in June 20th, 2007 @ 18:47

70-Um, I don’t know!

But did you know you can make by using : | w/out spaces? And with : ?

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72

Alice

in June 21st, 2007 @ 11:26

71- Yeah.

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73

E2MB

in June 21st, 2007 @ 12:56

Hmm….

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74

E2MB

in June 21st, 2007 @ 12:57

Cool!

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75

Fox With Drops of Rubies

in June 27th, 2007 @ 04:28

67- i doubt that we’ll be around in a century.

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76

Donaldo the supercoolio awesome nerd

in June 27th, 2007 @ 16:30

67-Darker skin isn’t always part of genetics. Darker skin occurs because of pigments in the skin(don’t remember what the certain pigment is called right now) When the skin is exposed to the sun, a certain pigment is released, which causes less chance of sunburn. THis is why tanning occurs, and why the Ancient Africans, who were out in the sun so much, have darker skin. If we stay indoors longer, then we have whiter skin.

75-PESSIMIST!!!! WHAT ARE YOU SOME FREAKOZOID HALF GLASS EMPTY PERSON???

Here is an interesting fact I heard: In the Bible, God created Adam out of the dust. Then, he took one of Adam’s ribs out of him, and created Eve with it. Therefore, the female came from the male. In genetics, the X and Y chromosomes determine gender. The female has XX chromosomes, while the male has XY chromosomes. Therefore, the woman, no matter what, will give the X chromosome. The male, on the other hand, has a Y chromosome and an X chromosome. He is the deciding factor on whether the child is a male or female. Therefore, females can come from males, but males cannot come from females. This is exactly the way God wanted it. He had the female(Eve) come from the male(Adam). Adam could not come from Eve. Just like the female can come from the male, but the male cannot come from the female. Get it? THAT IS THE WAY GOD WANTED IT.

I will leave this thread, but I will be lurking to see your responses.

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77

A Al Ali Alic Alice Alic Ali Al A

in June 27th, 2007 @ 16:50

76- I thought we were keeping religion off this thread. But even so, I have to say, are you implying that women are subordinates then? I disagree.
And now I leave. Get out of here. Quick as I can. If anyone wants to talk about how bats evolved or something, I’ll return. But not if you’re discussing religion.

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78

Red-tailed HAWK

in June 27th, 2007 @ 19:35

77-Don’t go!!!

76-Wait a minute, I thought it was all babies are female till the other thing comes along! It was even in Jurassic Park, if you saw that movie…

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79

Donaldo the supercoolio awesome nerd

in June 28th, 2007 @ 12:22

77-Sorry! And no, I didn’t mean that!

78-Yes, you are right. But until the other thing comes along, the baby can’t be born!!

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80

Vixen of the Ruby Eyes

in June 28th, 2007 @ 13:33

76, 79- I don’t think it would be possible for any one to insult and offend me more than you have just done. How do you think that this story would have been told if your god was a woman? You really think that she would have made a man first?

Let’s step into history, shall we?

In the time of the first religions, people worshiped fertility godesses. If men were allmighty, as you claim, then how come they did this?

Then, sometime around the first civilizations, people got greedy. Men started creating male gods. Then men started to create kings, and all sorts of positions that women couldn’t have. After this generation of religions, christianity popped up. Your god happens to be male because it was created in this era. newer religions, for example Wicca, are switching back to the worship of females and males, or just females.

For centurys, no MILLENIA, men have oppressed my gender. In the time of the Greeks, chances are that I would be born a slave. My lifeas a slave might not involve fields, but it wouldn’t be pretty. If I was “lucky” enough, maybe I’d get born into a wealthy family. Then I’d be forced to marry some dude who’s richer than my family. If I said any of this, I’d get burned as a witch.

In the medieval ages, things were worse. If I were born a surf, I’d probably die before I was eighteen, because i’d get another arranged marriage, be forced to work in the fields during pregnency, which could kill me, the baby, or both of us. If I were born a royal lady, I’d be marry off around the age of twelve- fourteen, as a buissness agreement, have as many kids as my body could bear, (if I were married to Henry the eight, I’d be beheaded because I couldn’t bear any boys.) If i weren’t royal, I’d work in the house or yard, weaving and sewing until my fingers bled, washing, cooking, trying to scrape a living for my family. I’d definately have kids by eighteen.
If I said any of this, I’d get burned as a witch.
In the time of the Puritans, I had to serve my husband dutifully, trying to scrape a living out of the land. I’d have to wear heavy dresses (black or dark colors) in the sometimes 103degree heat. Oh sure, the men could take of their shirts but if I did, I ‘d get burned as a witch. Well, giving my temper, I probably would anyway. If I said any of this, I’d get burned as a witch.
In the eighteen hundreds, conditions haven’t changed much for the better. A man can still beat me,( as long as the stick that he’s using is the wider than his thumb!), as a southern bell, I’m considered a piece of furniture. The dresses I wear distort my body to make it look more apealing.
If I said any of this, I wouldn’t survive, most likely.
In the 1900’s, I can have my hair torn out in factories, free of charge! Factory work, or work as a bar tender or other servitude work, is all I can get. If I said any of this, I’d get thrown in jail and/or executed.
1950’s i get to stay at home, make lunches for the children, cook something wonderful for the family for dinner, wait on my husband loyally, and barely see other women. If I do, you can bet that it’s probably a sewing group or something. but be sure that my house is spiffy clean and that I never complain!
2000’s Wow! I can get a job! Too bad it’s 88 cents to a man’s dollar!

You would really think that after 2000+ years, you men would give us some respect, but I guess that you just proved me wrong! After all, it’s the way god wants it!

Might I add that you kinda need us women to bear you the kids! who has to carry extra weight on our stomachs for nine months. Get morning sickness in the morning, evening sickness at night. Then, go through one of the most painful things in nature (the others all including being torn apart by animals.) Correct me if I’m wrong, but do boys have to have a period? Might I add that it’s painful? Half the month you are recovering from it, the other half you are preparing for it. neverending cycle. PMS, all that stuff.

And I wouldn’t give it up for the world. Being a woman is the greatest thing that ever happened to me. My mother gave me a gift when she gave me her chromosomes. I’m not necessarily gentle, I’m pretty, but that’s got nothing to do with sexism, I’m intelligent enough to know that I’m being oppressed, I’m artistic, I have a great mothering instinct (any girl with a pet knows if they do), and I have power. I have the power to speak my mind. I have the power to give life. I’d like to see you try to grow life inside your stomach.

As for your god and your bible, It doesn”t bother me. If some kid wrote that he wants women to be less than men, it would bother me as much as your bible does. Right now, I can’t find a religion that I respect. And it’s definately not one that says, “Adam could not come from Eve. Just like the female can come from the male, but the male cannot come from the female. Get it? THAT IS THE WAY GOD WANTED IT.”

Any respect that I had for christianity has just been lost.

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81

Vixen of the Ruby Eyes :idea:

in June 28th, 2007 @ 13:55

Thank you so much for approving that long bit!

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82

Vixen of the Ruby Eyes :idea:

in June 28th, 2007 @ 13:56

Donaldo the supercoolio awesome nerd, I actualy want you to read that above bit. No not the short one thanking the GAPAs. Yes, that huge bit.

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83

E2MB

in June 28th, 2007 @ 14:44

80 – That was a very long and strong rant. Unfortunantly, it has a lot of holes. You keep using the worst case scenario from any particular time period. There are lots of ancient places where women were respected (for example, the Aztecs), and I seem to remember that even in England, there were plenty of queens in addition to kings.

I know girls do have periods, and that they are painful and annoying, but we boys have something painful and annoying too. Whenever our (balls) get squashed they hurt like nothing other and you feel like you want to die. Not to mention that random, involuntary erectio.ns can make your pants stick out in embarrasing ways. You said girls have the power to give life. Well, so do boys! You can’t make a baby without the spe.rm, can you? “I’d like to see you try and grow life inside your stomach.” I’d like to see you try and grow life inside your stomach without us boys!!!

Look at our society now! You can vote, run for president, get a job…though you seem to be unhappy with the fact that it was 88 cents to a man’s dollar. You don’t show that women had a lot less than 88 cents to a man’s dollar just 30 years ago! And we don’t beat you anymore! Women can now become CEOs, mayors, governors, members of the congress…..you name it! Yet femenists keep ranting away about history and using it to complain!

Christianity does respect women! Mary, the mother of God, was SINLESS while Joseph was a sinner! What about Ruth, Naiomi, Mary Magdaline, Elizabeth, Deborah, and all those other important biblical figures?

I’m sorry, I just get very tired of femenist rants.

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84

Donaldo the supercoolio awesome nerd

in June 28th, 2007 @ 15:21

OMG!!!! I NEVER MEANT TO BE SEXIST!!!!! I AM JUST SAYING THE WAY GOD HAD IT IN THE BIBLE AND THE WAY GENETICS WORK TODAY ARE THE SAME THING!!!! COINCIDENCE?? I THINK NOT!!! I NEVER SAID THAT WOMEN WERE INFERIOR!!!! MANY OF MY FRIENDS ARE GIRLS!!!! I SAID THE WAY GOD HAD IT WAS THAT THE FEMALES CANNOT PRODUCE MALES!!! MALES PRODUCE FEMALES!!!! STUDY YOUR GENETICS PEOPLE!!!! THIS IS A 7TH GRADE CALIFORNIA STANDARD!!!!!!!

[Here’s an experiment, Donaldo. See if this gets your point across. –Rebecca]

OMG! I never meant to be sexist! I am just saying the way God had it in the Bible and the way genetics work today are the same thing! Coincidence? I think not! I never said that women were inferior. Many of my friends are girls. I said the way God had it was that the females cannot produce males. Males produce females. Study your genetics, people! This is a 7th grade California standard.

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85

Vixen of the Ruby Eyes :idea:

in June 28th, 2007 @ 15:45

83- It is eightyeight cents to a man’s dollar. It was 65 in 1969. other than that, I see your point. I might add that I have been punched in the breast, which makes you sit in the dirt and sob, so if getting kicked in the crotch is worse than that, I can sympathize with that.

“Adam could not come from Eve. Just like the female can come from the male, but the male cannot come from the female. Get it? THAT IS THE WAY GOD WANTED IT.” Doesn’t seem very respectful. There are several places in the bible where women are brutaly beaten and raped. Can’t remember where.

Artificial insemination. you can even get artificial insemination that’s completely artificial. But I get your point.

Might I also add that Mary wasn’t asked if she wanted to be pregnated by god. If he had asked me, I’d have given a rude reply that means, “definately not.” Wasn’t Mary sixteen?

Wow. We’re able to run for president. First time in a long, long time.

The independent queens in england were really pestered. You should watch “The Virgin Queen” from PBS. It’s a really good movie.

Ok, I’m sorry. For a long time, I’ve just been tired of being ignored in science while the boy next to me is the teachers pet. i’m tired of having my prinicipal call me “little girl.” I’m tired of having my hair pulled and getting kicked on the bus by boys because I can’t keep my mouth shut. i’m tired of other girls tell me I’m undeveloped for my age. i’m tired of being sent home from school because I smart talked the teacher because she didn’t punish the boy next to me when he asked me something completely unnapropriate. i’m tired of having half the boys in my class brag that they have “done it” like they shot a buck or something. i’m tired of my great aunt ask my mother if they’ve got any eyes on a good macth for me (she really wants great-great-nieces and nephews.) I’m tired that the editor of”Mother Jones” was beat up. I’m tired of getting tripped and jeered at. i’m tired of fighting. half of me really just wants to wear the stupid makeup and adore the celebreties. But I just know I can’t. Do you know what i mean? You can’t stop. you can’t stop the fighting.

I really hoped that i wouldn’t have to argue with people like this in the 21st century. I’m sad that i do. I wish it would all just… go away. But it won’t.

Remember, sexism isn’t just about money and jobs. It’s making any gender inferior to the other. Honestly, I don’t think women are above men. I just don’t think they are inferior. And saying that “that’s just the way god wants it” is sexist. It’s sexist to make a man or a woman into a hollow sexual object. Most mainstream music and media does that. And people are just tired of fighting.

Nothing anyones says about religion is going to change my mind. I’m an atheist, and that’s what makes me happy.

Do you know what would be a perfect day? If a person (male or female) looks at me and doesn’t stuff me into a steriotype, doesn’t think that I’m pretty (because I won’t be in forty years), doesn’t think that I’m less or more for being female, and just sees me for who I am. Until the day comes when every one can, than I’m going to keep on fighting.

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86

SM2K

in June 28th, 2007 @ 15:54

80- I COMPLETELY agree with evrything you just said. Or typed.

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87

Vixen of the Ruby Eyes :idea:

in June 28th, 2007 @ 16:04

84- look at it this way.

here’s the female column here’s male.
xx xy
xx>

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88

Vixen of the Ruby Eyes :idea:

in June 28th, 2007 @ 16:12

*sighs* stupid html messed taht last comment up. here I go again.

ok. the male chromosomes has a female chromosome. (the x)

this female chromosome is actually the grandmother’s chromosome. So, when a girl is formed, it’s the grandmother’s chromosome being used. Not the man’s.

Please stop saying that men make women, because it’s not accurate. Two X chromosomes do.

With a boy child, the difference is made. Both the woman and the male chromosomes are used, so both genders are used.

God honestly didn’t literly break off one of adam’s ribs and make a lady. That’s one of the parts of the bible people don’t usually take literly.

Your comment was sexist. Admit it. You said that women don’t have as big a role as men. That’s sexist. In a big way.

The Bible is sexist. Don’t try to make it look like it’s not.

I am awaiting your apology.

Now I sugest you go have another look at your genetics. Your mother’s a part of you, too. However, my father doesn’t make me a girl. My grandmother does.

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89

Vixen of the Ruby Eyes :idea:

in June 28th, 2007 @ 16:12

86- Thank you. Isn’t this tiring?

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90

Alice

in June 28th, 2007 @ 16:14

78- I am leaving because this is fast becoming a arguing thread, not a discussion thread. I haven’t read these posts, but I must throw in my two cents, based on the subject, not what other people have said.
Donaldo- that ought not to have been put here. We aren’t arguing about evolution, remember? We’re discussing it. Or we were…
I don’t care about feminism, actually. I just don’t have an opinion. It simply isn’t pertinent in my life. I also don’t see why anyone would think women were inferior, anyways, says the sheltered child. That’s all.

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91

Vixen of the Ruby Eyes :idea:

in June 28th, 2007 @ 16:24

90- Let’s both leave. I just wanted that apology….

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92

Beavo the Online Stalker

in June 28th, 2007 @ 16:38

83-I agree that there were a lot of worst cases in there, and I reallly loathe feminest rants too. But the queens didn’t get it the best, either. They had to wear huge dresses and bust their butt on a throne all day listning to everyone. Plus the facepaint. And men still do beat their wives.

Please, girls, some men SUCK. Yes, I said it. Some men SUCK. But that dosn’t mean we all beat you and hate you and make life terrible.

85-The seventh paragraph was probably the best part of your post. But you have to remember us boys too!

We also hate great great aunts and such asking about matches, always getting blamed when some goodytwoshoes girl plays some stupid prank, always being considered trouble makers, always being picked on by other boys to play football or something, and half of me wants to start weight-lifting and flirting with girls and gushing over porn. But I don’t. We have our struggles too.

And you know what I really hate? Girls can (and do) say anything they want about boys. “Boys suck. Boys are immature. Boys are so stupid. Boys are @$$ |-|0135.” Publicly. But if a boy says something like “Katie is a stank” immediatly people are all over him calling him sexist and immature.

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93

Robert Coontz (Administrator)

in June 28th, 2007 @ 16:41

I don’t want to spoil anybody’s fun, but since my last comment (61) I still haven’t seen much evidence that anyone on the blog wants to discuss evolution. Can anyone offer a convincing reason for keeping this thread open, or a convincing strategy for making it work?

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94

Vixen of the Ruby Eyes

in June 28th, 2007 @ 16:49

92 I agree with you one hundred percent.

OMG! I just realized something! I can talk Pedigree on this thread! thanks, Robert!

Now, whith chihuahuas, if you have two large chihuahuas (8lbs and up), and they breed, you’ll get (in a litter of four) one medium chi, one large chi, one small chi, and one teacup chi. Isn’t that so cool?

Anyone want to explain that? I don’t know the science behind it.

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95

Beavo the Online Stalker

in June 28th, 2007 @ 16:51

93-Maybe if us hot-heads make a boys/girls thread, we can spew lava there and discuss evolution here. I left the last thread for the flaming.

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96

E2MB

in June 28th, 2007 @ 16:59

84 – That’s really weird. The non-caps version seems to get the point across much, much better than the all-caps version.

85 – Well, I am sorry if you see boys get away with tons of stuff. Belive me, some of the boys in my class have said things that are so innapropriate…. It annoys me too.

I understand what you’re trying to say, and I’m glad you understood what I said too.

I also am tired of the constant bickering between men and women over equal rights. Women are stereotypically assumed weaker than men, and men are stereotypically assumed dumber and crazier than women.

Um…..I can’t think of a good conclusion, but I’ll just say that I hope men and women get along better when I become an adult.

93 – Uh, this confusion all started when people started bringing up god in post 76. Maybe all posts that talk about god should be zapped.

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97

E2MB

in June 28th, 2007 @ 17:00

94 – How on earth can that happen?

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98

Vixen of the Ruby Eyes

in June 28th, 2007 @ 17:04

genetics, is all I can say. large chihuahuas have genes for tea cup ones too.

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99

Vixen of the Ruby Eyes of Drops of Gold

in June 28th, 2007 @ 17:06

*smiles wickedly* What fun is that? *just kidding*

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100

Vixen of the Ruby Eyes of Drops of Gold

in June 28th, 2007 @ 17:14

last comment was in reference to 96

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101

Rebecca Lasley (Administrator)

in June 28th, 2007 @ 17:31

(96) Â» (84) A striking difference, isn’t it?

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102

Donaldo the supercoolio awesome nerd

in June 28th, 2007 @ 20:16

85-Yeah, she was around that old. But the thing is: People in those times lived to only about 30. 14 year olds back then are today’s 26 year olds. If you lived back then, and you were 18, you most likely had had a kid by then. And of course God didn’t ask her! If he had asked anyone, he never would have gotten a single “yes.” And in the end, she felt so blessed. Women, for the past oh, 20 years have been able to run for president. Hillary Clinton is now. It is just that no woman has ever wanted to. I am sorry I offended you, but trust me, most boys at my school are IDIOTS!!! I did not mean to be sexist. The statement was just dealing with how genetics and the Bible are related. No sexism was intended.
88-I will not stop because you are not true. Two X chromosomes do make a female, but a female can only put in one chromosome. You need the male to make the female by giving the other X chromosome, or if chance has it that he gives a Y chromosome, a boy. And GUESS WHAT? My mom explained that thing about Adam and Eve to me, and she was not offended at all. In my opinion, I think you are offended about your religion, not your gender.
98-I don’t know how that can happen, unless they are heterozygous in their genetics, but that still doesn’t explain it that well.
96-OK, so maybe I shouldn’t have brought up God on this thread. GAPAs, can we start a Christians-only thread?
101-LOL. OK, maybe you are right. I just get upset sometimes.

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103

Donaldo the supercoolio awesome nerd

in June 28th, 2007 @ 20:19

P.S. Vixen of the Ruby Eyes-You might like a book called “Politically Correct Bedtime Stories: Modern Tales For Our Life and Times” by James Finn Garner. Not to be offensive in any way.

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104

Donaldo the supercoolio awesome nerd

in June 28th, 2007 @ 20:59

Sorry for the triple post, but I just noticed something. In post 80(Vixen), you wondered how the story would have been if our God was female. Technically, our God might be female. Our God might be male. Or neither. We just see our God as a he because of Jesus. There is nothing in the Bible that says our God is a he.

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105

Lawrence of Antarctica

in June 28th, 2007 @ 21:59

Women’s rights people, get your own thread.

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106

Donaldo the supercoolio awesome nerd

in June 28th, 2007 @ 21:59

Sheesh. No one is posting. Oh well. My mom and sister have looked at your posts, Vixen, and find you very inept. I feel sorry for you, because if this is your view of men, you must not have a solid father figure. I was not intentionally being feminist. I am watching a wonderful movie right now, and I will continue the posts later, with my sister’s and mother’s comments on your beliefs. But I want to ask, how old are you? You can’t be older than me, because then you would have a greater understanding of genetics. TTFN.

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107

Lawrence of Antarctica

in June 28th, 2007 @ 22:07

104- The story would have been exactly the same ’cause a bunch of fools made it up. It’s just like Zeus and Hera and Psoeidon and all those pagan gods.

I mean, seriously, people, does it really make sense that an invisible, all-powerful thing that we have no evidence for is massively believed in, but evolution, which has pretty much conclusive proof, is widely denounced by Christians because their “holy book” says other wise.

The first guy appeared. He, in a very emo-like fashion, ripped out his own rib without bleeding to death (another “miracle”, I suppose) and made the first woman. Somehow. then she eats fruit because a snake told her to, and the first guy eats it too, and they get kicked out of some garden. Wow.

Evolution does not mean apes changed into people. It means ape-LIKE beings, who we have found the bones of, were our ancestors. WE. EVOLVED. Simple.

See Pokemon. See Yugioh epsiode 8. See digimon. See pretty much everything else. “EVOLUTION!” It’s a big deal.

Schools will never teach intelligent design again. The star? Supernova. Walking on water? He was walking on the DEAD SEA. Everything floats on it. Water into wine? Convenient pig’s blood, dying the water red. Everyone was too drunk to notice.

[Snipped for gratuitous insults. –Admin.]

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108

Lawrence of Antarctica

in June 28th, 2007 @ 22:07

Ok, the discussions over. Pack up, everyone, go home.

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109

Vixen in the Eyes of the Moon

in June 29th, 2007 @ 05:30

106- Your mother (maybe sister, I don’t know) are in a different generation. it doesn’t really matter if they were offended or not. I was.

106- Don’t bring the dead into the topic. Let my father RIP.

107- Thank you.

102. The genetics and the bible aren’t related. You need a woman to make a man and a man to make a woman. Please stop it. If you don’t understand your genetics, I can’t help you. Please do form a christians only thread, and then discover that not all christians are sexist.
I’m, fourteen, I understand genetics, and it’s not your fault that you, your mom, and your sister are biased. It’s not my fault either.

It’s just the way god wants it.

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110

Donaldo the supercoolio awesome nerd

in June 29th, 2007 @ 12:59

107-It is called FAITH. It doesn’t need to be seen.
109-Sorry about your dad. And I understand genetics. I took it this year. I am not stupid. I got the highest grade. I WAS NOT SEXIST!!! Not intentionally, at least. Yes they are related. You need a man to make a baby, but you need a woman too. The woman does not have any choice but to give an X chromosome. The man has no choice but to give an X or Y chromosome. The woman came from the man. THe man did not come from the woman, just like the men today cannot be made by the women because the women only have X chromosomes. Also, did you know in the Bible, that it says with everything God created, it became more and more advanced. That is why us humans are so advanced. God made US last.(Some smart aleck out there is going to say that isn’t true, it’s evolution, so don’t waste your time-I know what you think) But GUESS WHAT? Even if He made humans last, the last human he made was a FEMALE. That means that the FEMALES are the most advanced creatures on Earth, more advanced than anything else EVER. If that helps. BTW, don’t say you’d like to say me try to grow life in my stomach. Sheesh. I thought you were smarter than that. Of course I can’t grow life in my stomach. No one can. There are dangerous digestive acids in there! No male or female can. But females can grow life in their WOMBS. That is why we can’t grow life. Because we don’t have WOMBS.

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111

Robert Coontz (Administrator)

in June 29th, 2007 @ 13:13

This discussion has gone ‘way beyond any questions science can tackle.

As I understand it, the scientific part of what Donaldo is saying goes like this: A man has an X chromosome and a Y chromosome. A woman has two X chromosomes. So if you were cloning a human being, you could conceivably create a female clone from a man by doubling his X chromosome and removing his Y chromosome. But you could never create a male clone from a woman, because you’d need a Y chromosome, and she doesn’t have one.

What that has to do with Adam and Eve — or with all the non-cloned people who have ever lived — beats me. The significance seems to me symbolic, not practical. However, it’s not true that men don’t “come from” women. We get our X chromosomes from our mothers.

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112

Vixen in the Eyes of the Moon

in June 29th, 2007 @ 13:26

110- Any faith I had has left me. Utter nonsense.

111- Thank you. Robert, I have a model of what happens when you breed two large chihuahuas. How can I post it?

Now, something equally odd happens when you breed two long coated chihuahuas. You get all long hairs. Breed two short hairs, and you’ll get three short hairs and one long hair. One long hair and two short hairs gives you two short and two long hairs.

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113

Beavo the Online Stalker

in June 29th, 2007 @ 14:05

108-I am home.

110-Sorry to be gross, but I really don’t think women come from men. And before you start ranting about x chromosomes, you have to remember that it’s the woman that has the baby. Unless there’s a very rare case of male lactation. I don’t think Adam or whoverer was “first” had Eve by taking a rib out of his side, but I don’t think he had her either.

112-? I kind of get it… or not… yes, yes I think I know what you’re saying. Maybe. *is confuzzled*

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114

Vixen in the Eyes of the Moon

in June 29th, 2007 @ 14:19

(wants to see if gapas will let it in…)

http: // www. prouxchihuahuas.com/

the pages are on the right hand navbar. Under size genetics or coat genetics, or something like that.

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115

Vixen in the Eyes of the Moon

in June 29th, 2007 @ 14:21

106- My best friend, whoÃ¸s also a christian, looked at your post and said that she felt sorry for you. Please, can you apologize?

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116

Jadestone

in June 30th, 2007 @ 20:47

103- I have that book. Amusing.

104- “There is nothing in the Bible that says our God is a he” What about all the capitalized ‘He’s’ floating around in it? Oh, nevermind. I don’t really want to talk about it.

I seem to recall a science teacher saying that the Y chromosome was merely the X chromosome missing part of itself. GAPAs, is this true or incorect, do you know? I’m curious.

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117

Vixen in the Eyes of the Moon

in July 3rd, 2007 @ 16:19

116- never heard of that. I don’t know. GAPAs?

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118

Robert Coontz (Administrator)

in July 3rd, 2007 @ 16:32

Rosanne knows much more about biology than I do. I do know that the human X chromosome contains more than ten times as many genes as the Y chromosome does. Many (not all!) other animals have both X and Y chromosomes, too, so the X and Y must have diverged long before human beings, or even mammals, came along.

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119

E2MB

in July 3rd, 2007 @ 16:37

What I’m wondering is, what would happen if instead of XX or XY, an egg was fertilized with YY?

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120

E2MB

in July 3rd, 2007 @ 16:38

Don’t say this is impossible. It’s very easy to do this with cloning.

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121

Jadestone

in July 3rd, 2007 @ 16:44

119+120- I don’t think it works. It would have to be ‘XYY’ not just ‘YY.’ Even if you just had two Ys, I don’t think it’d be able to grow.

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122

Vixen in the Eyes of the Moon

in July 3rd, 2007 @ 16:48

119- ultra-macho. I have no idea what would happen.

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123

Robert Coontz (Administrator)

in July 3rd, 2007 @ 16:55

(120) Rosanne will have to answer this one. Even if it is possible, though, I’m pretty sure the egg would die almost immediately. The X chromosome contains some genes that are essential for development. (The Y chromosome doesn’t.)

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124

Donaldo the supercoolio awesome nerd

in July 3rd, 2007 @ 17:42

119-I agree with Robert. I think it would die almost immediately. The Y chromosome doesn’t have much on it, unlike the X chromosome.

Vixen-I give up! I will NOT apologize. I do not deserve this abuse from you! I am right, whether you believe it or not. DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS!!! I AM SICK! I can only say so much, I guess.

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125

Rosanne Spector (Administrator)

in July 3rd, 2007 @ 19:11

119: As Donaldo, Jadestone and Robert point out, there’s important stuff on the X that isn’t anywhere else — genes that make proteins for blood clotting, and genes for proteins that control brain development, for instance. Not only that, there are genes needed for an embryo simply to develop. Without at least one copy of certain X chromosome genes, the embryo won’t survive.

Jadestone (116): It’s almost accurate … but not quite … to say that the Y chromosome came from the X chromosome. Actually, what seems to have happened is both the X and the Y evolved from an earlier chromosome. Over time the Y chromosome lost a lot of the original genes and had some others revamped through mutation. You can compare them to the versions on the X chromosomes and see the similarities.

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126

Vixen in the Eyes of the Moon

in July 6th, 2007 @ 05:53

125- Thanks! I get it now. (All ready new sme of it, learned some new.)

So, in 100,000 years- what will be the top species? Honest, i’m putting my bet on a bird of prey. As human society collapses, disposal of the dead will fail, giving a return to the hawks, the condors, and the eagles. Well, actually, I think it’ll be the dogs. They are intelligent and quickly developing.

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127

Robert Coontz (Administrator)

in July 6th, 2007 @ 15:25

There’s an interesting article on this topic in the July issue of Scientific American. You can see it online at http:// www. sciam.com/ article.cfm?chanId=sa013&articleID=2691D716-E7F2-99DF-38F54EF6075AAB4D&modsrc=most_popular

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128

Donaldo the supercoolio awesome nerd

in July 9th, 2007 @ 17:28

Can I ask a question real quick on evolution? Please don’t be mean to me about it. If animals are always evolving all the time, how come there aren’t infinite amounts of species that look the same, but aren’t exactly? Like, why isn’t there a orange stripe clownfish, and a light orange stripeclownfish, and a red stripe clownfish, and stuff like that?

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129

E2MB

in July 9th, 2007 @ 17:58

128 – I was wondering that too. Isn’t every new generation a whole new species, as eventually it will supposedly mutate into a whole new species eventually?

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129.1

Enceladus and Nimly (*.*)

in June 13th, 2009 @ 15:41

No, because as long as they can breed, and produce fertile offspring, they are one species. If a group of light skinned clownfish was separated from the rest of the population, then they might become a different species. Chiuauas and Poodles are of the same species, because they can breed and make breedable offspring.

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130

purplesox

in July 11th, 2007 @ 17:43

I’m new here so you probably haven’t seen me before. I’d just like to point out that this is an evolution forum, not how-babies-are-made 101.

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131

Jadestone

in July 11th, 2007 @ 17:52

128- This is mostly i=just ninference, but
Some colors are slightly different, shade-wise, but it hasn’t so far made a dfference to their survival, so the colors don’t get picked out as one better than the other. So, fish that are slightly lighter could mate with a fish slightly darker, and if one’s not dominant they could blend or somthing.
I don’t really know though.

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132

Donaldo the supercoolio awesome nerd

in July 11th, 2007 @ 17:57

129-You mean evolve into a whole new definite species, I think.

130-Hey! Nice to meet ya! I am Donaldo, and just so ya know, lots of people(including me, sadly) can get mean on this thread and Hot Topics, so if you aren’t a debater, I’d recommend the RRRs and monthly threads. A great RRR is the pirates RRR, part 2, but it isn’t moving much, so PLEASE come! We need more ‘Riters for it!

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133

Donaldo the supercoolio awesome nerd

in July 11th, 2007 @ 18:28

No, 131-No, but good try. I think they would have to go through those colors no matter what to get to another one, because they evolve during each generation and change.

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134

Robert Coontz (Administrator)

in July 11th, 2007 @ 21:20

(128, 131) I’m sure that within any population of clown fish, some are lighter than average, some darker, some redder, and so on. Tropical-fish breeders probably could enhance those colors by putting similarly colored fish together so that they have to mate with one another — the same way flower breeders do with roses and orchids, and dog breeders do with dogs.

As for why that sort of separation doesn’t happen in nature, Jadestone’s guess sounds plausible to me. If only a few clown fish are light orange, then they’re likely to breed with standard-orange fish and hatch babies that are darker (that is, closer to normal-colored) than they are. So instead of intensifying, the color variations get averaged out back into the general population. Rosanne is a biologist and can tell you more about this than I can.

(129) In the natural world, species aren’t always sharply defined. To biologists, a species means a population (group) of plants or animals that look and behave in distinctive ways, that mate with one another, and that have trouble mating with other plants or animals (even though they might appear similar). It’s hard to imagine how a plant or animal could change quickly enough to have difficulty mating with members of its parents’ generation. So it’s unlikely that a biologist would classify them as separate species.

(Animals that change a lot during their lifetimes can be mistaken for different species, of course. Caterpillars and butterflies, tadpoles and frogs, or even birds that change their plumage as they grow up could cause loads of confusion if you didn’t have time to watch them closely.)

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135

Alice

in July 11th, 2007 @ 21:32

132- *sigh* Yes we do. I’m not half satisfied with the way the story is turning out, either. Perhaps some new writers would help somewhat.

What do you mean this isn’t the place to discuss that?

Did you know that fruit bats are actually more closely related to us, humans, than they are to mice?

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136

Donaldo the supercoolio awesome nerd

in July 14th, 2007 @ 17:48

134-But animals can’t just change from red to blue(or some other color-these were just the two that popped in2 my head). They have to go through color changes to do that. And that means every generation has to change around their color pigments, just a bit, so they change, and if every generation is a slightly different colors, and they mate with the same generation, then you would get the same color, or the same kind. And I read somewhere that even Darwin agreed that there were many missing links in evolution, and he had no full proof of it. Even in stuff like fossils and bone tracing and changing between species, there were gaps. But he decided to hide it, as do many other evolutionists. They keep the stuff that doesn’t help prove it private. Another thing is that the human body is like a mousetrap. You can only work it if you have all the parts. It is the same with most animals. So how did we get new parts, when really our body can only work if it has every organ in place? And, another question I want to know-how did we get male and female parts?
135-Yea, we need some new writers to freshen up the story. *sigh*

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137

Donaldo the supercoolio awesome nerd

in July 15th, 2007 @ 17:08

Also, one more question: If all life started out as single-celled organisms, how did we go from meiosis and mitosis to the er…um way we reproduce today? How did we figure it out?

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138

I dare adire Daire (still pronounced Dara)

in July 18th, 2007 @ 10:47

Let’s talk about memetic evolution. Has Muse become a memeplex

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139

I dare a dire Daire (still pronounced Dara)

in July 18th, 2007 @ 14:54

My apologies. I meant to ask has Muse become a memeplex?

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140

Robert Coontz (Administrator)

in July 18th, 2007 @ 15:01

If only.

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141

Fortune Cell

in July 21st, 2007 @ 00:06

136- “Another thing is that the human body is like a mousetrap. You can only work it if you have all the parts”
Then why can some stuff be removed , and have no affects?
Just some of the useless body parts we have:

Vomeronasal Organ- A tiny pit on each side of the septum is lined with nonfunctioning chemoreceptors. They may be all that remains of a once extensive pheromone-detecting ability.

Extrinsic Ear Muscles- This trio of muscles most likely made it possible for prehominids to move their ears independently of their heads, as rabbits and dogs do. We still have them, which is why most people can learn to wiggle their ears.

Wisdom Teeth- Early humans had to chew a lot of plants to get enough calories to survive, making another row of molars helpful. Only about 5 percent of the population has a healthy set of these third molars.

Neck Rib- A set of cervical ribsâ€”possibly leftovers from the age of reptilesâ€”still appear in less than 1 percent of the population. They often cause nerve and artery problems.

(stolen from a site, by the way)

After those, there were 15 more, plus explanations.

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142

Fortune Cell

in July 21st, 2007 @ 00:15

Oh, here a few key ones:
PLANTARIS MUSCLE
Often mistaken for a nerve by freshman medical students, the muscle was useful to other primates for grasping with their feet. It has disappeared altogether in 9 percent of the population.

MALE UTERUS
A remnant of an undeveloped female reproductive organ hangs off the male prostate gland.

SUBCLAVIUS MUSCLE
This small muscle stretching under the shoulder from the first rib to the collarbone would be useful if humans still walked on all fours. Some people have one, some have none, and a few have two.

I believe this has done more than enough talking for me. Men are women are animals? Hmmm

FEMALE VAS DEFERENS
What might become sperm ducts in males become the epoophoron in females, a cluster of useless dead-end tubules near the ovaries

COCCYX
These fused vertebrae are all thatâ€™s left of the tail that most mammals still use for balance and communication. Our hominid ancestors lost the need for a tail before they began walking upright.

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143

cilroxmysox

in July 29th, 2007 @ 13:31

what the…

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144

Elizabeth Sescilla

in July 29th, 2007 @ 20:09

46 – yes, just stumbled here…and stumbled in again as I googled my own name and was reminded of my visit to this thread

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145

Ultimatejeeves

in August 2nd, 2007 @ 12:14

I REEEAAALLLY hope that you guys don’t talk about how evolution defies religeon here. When I post here, I want to be purely scientific.

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146

Ultimate Jeeves

in August 3rd, 2007 @ 10:16

Or is that what they mean by heckling?

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147

cilroxmysox

in August 3rd, 2007 @ 18:37

yeah thats what they mean by heckeling

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148

Fallen Angel

in August 10th, 2007 @ 15:40

15- try not to steriotype to much. im christian and i beleive in both evolution and the bible

has anyone ever read pheonix dawn? it relates to this thread somewhat.

i believe everything adapted. i totaly belive the egg came before the chicken.

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149

Ã–tzi

in August 10th, 2007 @ 16:12

Religion and evolution can mix perfectly. Just some people with skewed views say otherwise.

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150

Dancergirl13

in August 14th, 2007 @ 18:34

I was at a birthday party at a zoo once, and there was a picture of a chimp on it. My friend was like “Now that is sooooo stupid, that humans evolved from them? That is so stupid, I mean come on! God made the first humans out of clay and breathed life into us.” And I respect her beliefs, I know everyone thinks something else. But there were many people there who DO believe in evolution, and dont believe what she said (no offense to anyone, just telling a story) and we were kind of offended. If she had said it in a nice way we wouldnt have minded, but she was kind of harsh. Shouldnt people accept other peoples believes, and respect them, but somehow make it clear they dont believe the same thing without calling the other’s beliefs stupid?

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151

Fortune Cell

in August 22nd, 2007 @ 19:42

150- I agree, and also find it humorous that she can make the leap from clay to human, but not from monkey to human.

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152

Jadestone

in August 28th, 2007 @ 11:12

150- Yeah, I’ve had encounters like that with people, who just ‘don’t belive we came from monkeys.’ One person was actually insulted by the thought, which I just shook my head to.

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153

trevor the decent, snarkmaster, resident blog-spy

in October 2nd, 2007 @ 18:31

137- Figuring it out is unnesecary. Some evolution is ideas, but physical ones are mutations that work.
85- l think that all sex organs hurt a lot, since you need them for the species to survive.

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154

Lawrence of Antarctica

in October 8th, 2007 @ 13:15

137- Well, the thing was that when there were single-celled organisms, they reproduced asexually , by dividing themselves in half. Then, one day, there was a mutation. Some cell divided into four parts called gametes. Each was a half-cell. This is what sperm and eggs are in humans. Then these half-cells joined to make two new cells. It had found a way to shuffle genes. Before that, all organisms were the same. But, now, some are different: faster, stronger, etc. and can survive to better perpetuate the species. This is why athletic people are sexy. Sooner or later, they evolved into multi-celled organisms like amphibians. They laid their eggs in water and the male fertelized the eggs outside the female. This was all fine and dandy for a species tied to the water, but what about land? To permanently move there, species would have to fertelize eggs FAST, or they would die. The solution came about like the gametes-it was discovered. Some amphibians found a way to fertelize eggs inside the female’s body-namely, sex. They moved onto land permanently and became known as reptiles.

I hop that answers your question, Donaldo.

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155

Lawrence of Antarctica

in October 8th, 2007 @ 18:48

80, 85- Heh. I agree with 83. Today, women are not discriminated against, but MEN are. You may think this sounds “sexist”, but it’s the way things are.

If a girl hits a boy, it’s ok. If a boy hits a girl, it’s considered “awful.”
If a girl bosses a boy around, it’s ok. If a boy bosses a girl around, he’s “mean” and “sexist”.
And what about all those “femdom” sites on the Internet, huh? If there was a “maledom” site, they’d take it down in 2 seconds!
And what about all that crap about girls being smarter than boys? Girls and boys learn in different ways; our current school system is geared toward the ways girls learn (memorization and listening) not the ways boys learn (hands-on experience).

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agagabagabag xarcu zepata, ultimate slayer of n00bs

in October 8th, 2007 @ 19:06

154- Cartoon history of the univesrse?

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157

agagabagabag

in November 2nd, 2007 @ 00:19

141, 142- Other animals use those, suggesting that we are related to them.

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158

greekgurl the Latin speakin geek freak!

in November 9th, 2007 @ 19:35

155- don’t forget that, although girls are catching up, we had to fight for much of our (yes, our, im a girl, read my profile on…. one of those posts) rights. For centuries women were considered porperty. The reason (in my very strong opinion) that people are tring to defend women’s rights. if a guy hit a girl he would be considered a coward 3 centuries ago when men and women wern’t equal. Today, if a guy hits a girl it’s bad because they are equal in the eyes of the public. And to think im only in eighth grade.

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159

nerdz_r00l

in November 9th, 2007 @ 23:56

I, personally think that men and women ARE different, and we need to respect thosse differernces.

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160

greekgurl the Latin speakin geek freak!

in November 11th, 2007 @ 11:53

159- i agree whole heartedly aand if i knew how i would reply in Latin ( That, exactly, is the reason why i HATE molesters of any kind, they don’t respect differences)

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161

Vixen in the Eyes of the Moon

in November 12th, 2007 @ 06:51

I saw on National Geographic last night about how size is irrelevent. For example, an ant, all though tiny, can feel pain (duh!) and that even though a woman’s brain is smaller than a man’s brain, science (not me) proves that they are of the same intelegence. In girls, the part of the brain that connects the two sectoins(left and right) of the brain is more developed. Girls are also better at hedge mazes. They made a team of girls and a team of boys, and the boys were trying to do stuff (there was a peek tower) like “well, the statue that I need to get to was to the right of the peek tower, so I shouldmove to the right” while the girls werte more concerned about finding out where they were in relevence to where they are going. For example, they were paying attention to where they had been before and where they hadn’t been while the boys kept going in circles.

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162

Vixen in the Eyes of the Moon

in November 12th, 2007 @ 07:00

155- excuse me? Since when do I learn by memorization? It’s me who did a project on ancient egypt mummification by mummifying a snake that the tenth graders disected while the boys stuck to books. That’s Hands on.

Sorry, um, had to say that.

Can we say that chihuahuas have evolved from wolves when they more closely resemble (DNA and stuff) foxes????

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163

greekgurl the Latin speakin geek freak!

in November 12th, 2007 @ 08:34

ya and the moose evolved from the squirrel

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164

Vixen in the Eyes of the Moon

in November 14th, 2007 @ 06:22

163- What? O.o *is confused*

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165

nerdz_r00l

in November 27th, 2007 @ 19:45

*sigh
my christian friends sent me the “answers” magazine, which tries to tie stupid ideas to evolution to make evolution look stupid…And just completely bashing eveoltion. I still believe in it though-they’re too much evidence for it.

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166

Cat's Meow

in November 27th, 2007 @ 20:59

165-Like what?

I’m not religious, but I’m not sure which side I’m on in evolution. I’m not sure if we could have evolved from algea, even in billions of years, but I don’t think that we were just plopped on this earth as is.

Speaking of which, the hot topic at school a couple weeks ago was that some kid (aka, my brother) had said that we evolved from monkeys, apples, and water.

Are we related to apples? =/

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167

Karishnekrava

in November 27th, 2007 @ 21:33

Not apples, but the trees.

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168

the man for aeiou

in November 28th, 2007 @ 17:56

166- we did not evolve from algea. plants did, but not animals. we evoled from simple, one celled things.

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169

Cat's Meow

in November 28th, 2007 @ 18:16

167-Speaking of which, how are trees related to their apples? Are they parents? Uncles? Siblings? (Sorry if I’m being too random)

168-But so did plants, right?
And the meaning of what I said is the same, except replace algae with “one celled beings”…how did we get so far away from single celled in only couple billion years, and how were the mutations just right that they could turn organisms with a single cell into creatures like us?

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170

the man for aeiou

in November 28th, 2007 @ 18:58

*sighs*
O.K., here goes:

” how were the mutations just right that they could turn organisms with a single cell into creatures like us?” they were not always right, but the good one survieved, and the bad one died off.

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the man for aeiou

in November 29th, 2007 @ 21:42

oh, not to good. look at all the posts by jadestone and shuch on last theard.

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172

Cat's Meow

in December 2nd, 2007 @ 10:59

170-See, I get that, but…how often do you get mutations like that? How many times would those teeny tiny tweaks have to happen to turn a single cell into us? And besides, it’s not necessarily that the beneficial mutations survived and the ones that didn’t help died off, since what about our lack of hair? How would that be beneficial? I’m just saying that there are still some hazy areas that need to be worked out.

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173

greekgurl the Latin speakin geek freak!

in December 2nd, 2007 @ 11:51

164- It was a joke (you can laugh now)
172- Those “hazy areas” are what gives scientist’s their paycheck so we are going to have those for a long time. It’s all political.

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174

Prarilius Canix

in December 2nd, 2007 @ 12:05

172- Hair pros and cons: it keeps you warm at night, but parasites live in it. Once people invented fire, the warming part of it became redundant, and people with less hair were less troubled by parasites and the diseases they carried.

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175

Jadestone

in December 6th, 2007 @ 16:22

Found an old powerpoint slide from the evolution unit last year (man… I miss biology so much…), thought I might as well type it up. These aren’t really explanations as much as introductions to explanations, but I remember most of the explanations themselves also. No time to type them all up now though, but these are some examples to support evolution.
…

I. Comparative Anatomy Evidence

a. Scientists look at physical structures to determine relatedness
b. Compare the physical make up of the structures and how they are used
c. If the structures are similar in make up- shows relatedness because structures rooted in DNA

d. Homologous Structures
1. Homo means same
2. Structures in different species that are similar in shape (make up) and function
3. Share a common ancestry

e. Vestigial Structures
1. Inherited but reduced in size and often unused
2. May be structures present in an organism but are reduced in size and have no use
3. Evidence of an organism’s evolutionary past or link to ancestors

f. Analogous Structures
1. Structures that are similar in function but not in shape
2. Shows distantly related organisms
3. Thee structures are not inherited from a common ancestor

II. COmparative Embryology Evidence

a. Study and compare the embryonic development of many species
b. Vertebrate embryos are very similar
c. Human embryonic development is similar to fish, tortoise, chicken, and rabbit [[more so to the mammals than others]]
d. There are tails, limbs, a backbone, and pharyngeal pouches (gill slits) during human development.

III. Biochemical & Genetic Evidence
a. The DNA, chromosomes, and amino acid sequences from different species
b. The more similar banding pattern, nucleotide sequence, or amino acids the more genetically similar or related
c. Show common ancestry

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176

greekgurl the Latin speakin geek freak!

in December 8th, 2007 @ 16:22

174- it’s also meant to protect you, as a first defence apart from skin.

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177

Capricious The Great and Terrible (cappy)

in December 29th, 2007 @ 21:20

176, 174 – It also looks dazzling in commercials.

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178

Robert Coontz (Administrator)

in December 29th, 2007 @ 21:45

(177) I think they’re talking about body hair, i.e., fur, as on other apes and monkeys.

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179

Lawrence of Antarctica

in January 7th, 2008 @ 16:24

I read a study on the Internet that said that people are most likely to be attracted to their own race (Caucasians to Caucasians, African-Americans to African-Americans, etc.) If this is, in fact, true, then why is it true? Isn’t the whole point of sexual reproduction so that more genes get shuffled in different ways?
I is confuzzled.

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180

Lawrence of Antarctica

in January 7th, 2008 @ 16:28

Huh. the last time I posted was like in October. And now it’s January and there’s only like 20 or 30 more posts.
I think this thread may be dying.

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181

Robert Coontz (Administrator)

in January 7th, 2008 @ 17:06

(179) That might make a good question for the Q&A column. Mind if I send it to Ruth and Andy?

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182

agagabagabag

in January 7th, 2008 @ 22:00

169- Apples are not living organisms, so none. To be perfectly frank, (more so than l would like to be, in fact, but science prevails over all) they most closely resemble the, um, penis.

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183

Dancergirl13

in January 8th, 2008 @ 16:06

We are almost done with our evolution unit in science now. Sometimes its weird because there are few people at my school who beleive in evolution, but there hasnt been any arguing that I have heard, thank goodness. I do beleive in evolution, and it was quite interesting to learn about.

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184

agagabagabag

in January 28th, 2008 @ 12:43

l have a Hindu friend wh insists that Hinduism came up with early concepts of evolution. l didn’t believe him at first, but l researched it, and it did!

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185

beatlesrockr

in February 9th, 2008 @ 21:31

Are we talking evolution as in Charles Darwin? I saw that, whales have pelvises. Only animals that have hind legs have pelvises! So I think that proves evolution.

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186

agagabagabag (1 piepoint)

in February 11th, 2008 @ 21:18

185- Similar theory, different people.

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187

soccergirl216

in February 17th, 2008 @ 18:51

I do not believe in evolution. The one reason that I do not believe in evolution is that through out history there has never been proof of transitional forms. Scientists have never made this a scientific law. Through intense study and research you will discover this fact. I believe everyone has the right to discover and come to truths themself. I can only hope you will discover the intricate beauty of God’s Creation that I have discovered.

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188

The Man For Aeiou

in February 17th, 2008 @ 20:22

187- GO TO A SCIENCE MUSEUM, OR CHECK OUT A GOOD BOOK.
there are tons, but Non I can name right of my head excerpt for that bird-dino…
Do any of you remember the name? it begins with an ax, I think.

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The Man For Aeiou

in February 17th, 2008 @ 20:24

and also read that article from feburary 2006 from, what magazine, MUSE! heck, read the march 2007 muse to. there are more I’m forgetting.

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The Man For Aeiou

in February 17th, 2008 @ 20:30

sorry for the triple post, but here comes more:
Scientists have never made this a scientific law. Through intense study and research you will discover this fact.
1)a THEORY is high then a law. much higher.
2) Gravity is not a law to. thru intense study a research you will discover this fact.
I believe everyone has the right to discover and come to truths themself. I can only hope you will discover the intricate beauty of God’s Creation that I have discovered.
1) You just contradicted your self
2) I have discovered the intricate beauty that the world thru us. if you can see the world for god, you can see the world for science.

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191

The Man For Aeiou

in February 17th, 2008 @ 20:32

Note that I am Christian. I’m really happy you posted, soccergirl216!

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192

Robert Coontz (Administrator)

in February 17th, 2008 @ 22:22

(188) Are you talking about Archaeopteryx? There are also fossils of a sort-of-fish-sort-of-amphibian called Tiktaalik, as well as whales with legs and many other hard-to-classify creatures.

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193

Î¡Ã–ÅžÎÄˆ

in February 17th, 2008 @ 22:25

192- Not to mention tons of feathered dinosaurs, birds with teeth… the transition from theropods to birds is one of the most well documented in the fossil record, and Archaeopteryx is just the tip of the iceberg.

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Robert Coontz (Administrator)

in February 17th, 2008 @ 22:53

Interestingly, Charles Darwin didn’t know very much about fossils (nobody did when he published his Origin of Species in 1859) and had never heard of genes. He relied entirely on other kinds of evidence. (It surprises me that so many people think scientists like to believe things for which there is no evidence. Their rivals wouldn’t let them get away with that.)

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Î¡Ã–ÅžÎÄˆ

in February 17th, 2008 @ 22:55

194- GAPA speaks without italics! *faints*

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Robert Coontz (Administrator)

in February 17th, 2008 @ 23:00

Just another Treo-induced quirk. I’ve fixed it now.

I’m going to bed now. Rosanne will have to take over, if she’s around.

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Î¡Ã–ÅžÎÄˆ

in February 17th, 2008 @ 23:01

Then I may as well sign off. *signs off*

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The Man For Aeiou

in February 18th, 2008 @ 17:12

192- thanks!

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agagabagabag (1 piepoint)

in February 20th, 2008 @ 10:11

187- Geez, you’re so high and mighty and holier-then-thou. Well let me tell you somethin’, babe, your “intense studies” seem quite biased, given what you’ve posted on other threads. Perhaps you could do what l did: lnstead of following exactly the beliefs of my parents, l researched all kinds of philosophies and sciences, and contemplated the idea of god for a long time. My beliefs changed. Now l consider myself a *ahem* Scientific-Semi Buddhist-Atheist.
l believe in physical change through atoms and thusly reincarnation in a way, evolution, the big-bang-chain, and that there is no god. Why? Because of intense study that’s not biased! Anyway, people always retort to your pompous statements, and then you leave the thread! lt’s like your mind is closed with 70 sets of padlocks!

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200

Â¡ÃÃŸâ‚¬Æ’! [158 piepoints Â©]

in February 20th, 2008 @ 10:21

187- Soccergirl, evolution is a scientific fact. But it doesn’t mean you can’t be a christian; it isn’t like evolution disproves God. Believe what you want to believe.

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201

Kokonilly [feeling lonely without any points, hint hint]

in February 20th, 2008 @ 16:03

187 – You sound awfully snooty. I mean, ‘ I can only hope you will discover the intricate beauty of God’s Creation that I have discovered.’ ?? WHAT IS THAT?? Are you the Pope or something? PLEASE respect other people’s beliefs, otherwise they will completely dismiss yours. Anyway… wait… did you say NO PROOF? How did Darwin succeed without proof? His rival(s) would have stomped all over his reputation!

PLEASE, PLEASE, I beg of you, don’t act so holier-than-thou and respect other people’s ideas!!!

199 – A Scientific-Semi Buddhist-Atheist? Say what?

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202

Kari

in February 20th, 2008 @ 17:13

I don’t think I believe in evolution, but I haven’t read much about it.

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The Man For Aeiou

in February 20th, 2008 @ 19:16

202- technelly, you have to believe in evolution.
I’ll explain my point later.
But intill then, I was just reading a book that said that N.S. Might need a little work.

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soccergirl216

in February 20th, 2008 @ 21:25

199- I said everybody can choose to believe what they want. I do feel strongly about my belief because I choose to, not because of my parents. I figured I would get a derogatory remark, because it seems you sit around and pounce people who just try to give their viewpoint. I am a Christian, and not afraid to say that I am. If someone bashes my God and His Creation I refuse to back down, because this is what I believe. You don’t have to believe it or anyone else, and I stated that. I am not going to argue with you that seems what you enjoy doing. I have the freedoms to speak my opinion and be heard just as you have you walk the path you want and I will do the same and everyone has that right.

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205

agagabagabag (1 piepoint)

in February 20th, 2008 @ 22:34

204- You act closed minded and pompous. You can still mantain your beliefs without that.

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206

Axa

in February 20th, 2008 @ 22:51

204) Agreed, but making statements las you did in your previous post will only bait people. There is a fine line between simply being true to your views and subtly or not so subtlety asserting you are right.

Understand though that people who don’t believe in God or any god have been historically ostracized and punished in Christian societies (which most of us come from or live in). It is good and right for you to be proud of your religion, but see that those of us who do not are just as proud of our beliefs, whatever they may be, as defend them similarly. Not to say you can’t see evolution as a real thing and not be Christian, or any other religion.

Personally natural selection makes sense to me. Common sense.

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207

gimanator

in February 20th, 2008 @ 22:52

204-so wait…what do you believe?

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208

The Man For Aeiou

in April 23rd, 2008 @ 15:14

New Thread?

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209

La Mort, La Vie, L'Amour

in May 5th, 2008 @ 14:42

Can I send an essay I wrote about evolution (well, it’s mainly about whether creationism/intelligent design should be taught in schools, but I think it makes a good point)?

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The Man For Aeiou

in December 31st, 2008 @ 12:11

New thread? now?

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211

Red-tailed HAWK

in December 31st, 2008 @ 12:14

Is there any interest in this topic? If not, maybe we shouldn’t kindle the fire.

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212

The Man For Aeiou

in December 31st, 2008 @ 12:22

211- I am.

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213

â™« Agrrrfishi {Aggie}â™«

in December 31st, 2008 @ 12:23

Yeah, I really don’t think we need another one of these…
I’m going to stop lurking now. Sorry.

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214

â™« Agrrrfishi {Aggie}â™«

in December 31st, 2008 @ 12:51

P.S. 203- Why must I believe in evolution? Aren’t entitled to my own opinion?

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215

The Man For Aeiou

in December 31st, 2008 @ 17:27

214- Do you get a flu shot ever year? why every year? because of evolution. evolution is needed for all of biology.

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