Hot Topics, v. 2006.4
Version 2006.3 is ancient, and FantasyFan says she feels the need to rant. Rant away, one and all–carefully, of course.
Date: July 20, 2006
Categories: Ideas, Life, The Universe
Comments RSS TrackBack 128 comments
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100% cotton
in July 20th, 2006 @ 12:20What do you guys think about whats going on in Israel/Lebannon?
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FantasyFan?!?!
in July 20th, 2006 @ 13:12I think it is so incredibly idiotic. wasnt it started by a captured israeli soldier? why couldnt the israeli government have just organized a tradeoff? and they are killing so many people in lebanon who didnt do anything and had nothing to do with hezbollah. the whole middle east will just slide into war if this continues. the other arab countries hate israel already . what do you think is going to happen now? and this will just earn more bad publicity for the us, because its allied with israel. the israrli army is not going to do any harm to hezbollah by killing civilians. as a matter of fact, it may earn hezbollah more recruits , because more people will think israel is evil.
on the other side, hezbollah needs to stop firing rabbits at, sorry, rockets at israel. their killing civilians to and that is what keeps on provoking israel. israel is here to stay and theyre not going to move out . hezbollah needs to stop its perfectly useless activities. if things stay as they are now, they will continue an endless cycle of retribution. israel and palestine need to work on the peace processes. they really, really do.
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kiki_the_great
in July 20th, 2006 @ 15:42Wars scare me. *crouches under couch*
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Axa
in July 20th, 2006 @ 15:55I’m actually very concerned about this because I know a girl from school who is Lebanese, and she goes there every summer for all but the first few weeks and last few weeks. So she should by all means be there right now, and it is altogether disconcerting to me.
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kiki_the_great
in July 20th, 2006 @ 17:00*cringe*
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Copper Yeti
in July 20th, 2006 @ 17:05*agrees with FF* And thats a sirprise, since I’m jewish. I wish Hezballa, Hamas, and all those other “Palenstination leberation organizations” *cough*terrorists*cough* would just stop already. Hasn’t 9/11 already scarred the world enough?
Butit doesn’t matter, because, I saw in Al Gores movie An Inconveint truth, that the WTC memorial will be underwater, along with half of Manhatten, in a matter of years. I saw AIT today, and It was mind blowing. Serious, hardcore facts. This isn’t the candy coated verison of Global Warming info. And yet, they manage to fit in humor. You could call it Muse-Style humor.
I urge all Musers to go see it. you’ll be glad you did. I know I am.
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Purple Panda
in July 20th, 2006 @ 19:10My friend is Jewish, and I hate it because she just doesn’t see both sides. She thinks that everyone is being mean to the Jews and that they should stop (she doesn’t really even know what the conflict really is).
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Anata~ChinTsu
in July 20th, 2006 @ 19:51Question: If humans became extinct because of global warming, would it be a great loss?
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Sweet Melpomene
in July 20th, 2006 @ 19:58I must agree with FF.
6- The closest place to where I live where that movie is playing is an hour-and-a-half drive from my house. This greatly displeases me.
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dark lord of darkness
in July 20th, 2006 @ 22:09FF- agree,
somewhathezbollah is firing rockets at isreal
this is an obvious act of war, et hezbollah is not lebanon, therefore, it is not lebanon v isreal.
2 hostages, agreed, trade-off would have been good
but if someone fires rockets at you, killing inocent civilians, what are you supposed to do?
I’m not saying that you are supposed to attack in full force, however, ya just cannot ignore
the lebanese gov cant really do anythin about it, cuz tons of lebanese people actually support hezbollah
anyhoo, no clue what to do
on the other hand, im not a leader of lots of people, so i dont have to know what to do.
in the long run, however, isreal should be much morereasonable in negociations.
after all, they came without permission and strted a country
they could give up many things that would not really hurt them, and would make the arabs not hate them as much
very frustrqationg
anyhoo, thats my rant
wow, i like thisese threads, dont i?
and thats my mr green
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dark lord of darkness
in July 20th, 2006 @ 22:25i >b>have not seen an inconvinient truth
must see
have read the book, however.
it would be nice to have some conservatives to argue with.
*sigh* MG’s gone
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Axa
in July 21st, 2006 @ 00:15An Inconvinient(Spelled wrong, I bet -_-)Truth is easily the scariest movie I’ve seen, as promised. All should see it; there’s no excuse not to.
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Kuai Zi Angel Pentatonikk
in July 21st, 2006 @ 00:372 (FF)- Agreed. Rock on.
7 (PP)- It really annoys me when people think like that. I’m half Chinese, and I think the Chinese government is violating human rights. (Of course, I think a lot of people are violating human rights. A certain President of a certain country with the initials U.S.A., for example.) Yes, the Jews have a right to live in the Middle East, but so do the Muslims and the Christians and the Buddhists and the Wiccans and the atheists and anybody else who wants to. (Not that many people would, in the state it’s currently in, but whatever floats your boat…)
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Ruffled Grouse
in July 21st, 2006 @ 09:39I really want ot watch/read An Inconvient Truth. Of course, it would probably scare me out of my wits, because I am a total chicken, but I am really concerned about global warming. But I doubt the movie would come to my little town-place-thing. I’ll just have to read the book.
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Sweet Melpomene
in July 21st, 2006 @ 10:37Well, I was looking up Hezbollah online because all I really knew was that they started up another…conflict. Here [Wikipedia] and other places… Apparently, they formed to fight against Israel’s invasion of Lebanon, which, in my opinion, was perfectly legit. Eventually, Israel withdrew and it was all happy, etcetcetc. except for that small part where they antagonized each other. This is the article on the current event….Hezbollah raids Israel and captures soldiers, Israel says that it’s war and attacks back, it blows out of proportion and the UN is pretty much ignored. They continue to attack civilians and, like every other recent war, it continues pointlessly.
At least that’s my mucho-paraphrased version of it. Don’t get mad at me, please.
Perhaps I’ll get the Inconvenient Truth book…yes, I think I shall.
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dark lord of darkness
in July 21st, 2006 @ 15:2813-you cant really compare chinese opression to american opression, to the extent that it exists.
i think torture is horrible, but at least the americans dont like it, and try to hide it, whereas the chinese opress the tibetans, and openly opress their people. i would check some more horrible things the chinese did, but im too lazy
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Eccentric the Afterthought
in July 21st, 2006 @ 21:09I would add something, but I really don’t know enough about the situation to comment, so I’ll just lurk for now…
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seamonster
in July 22nd, 2006 @ 14:14i am not concerned at all about global warming. first of all, the Earth naturally changes temperature, and second, if the world did get to warm, big deal! humans are creative, and, if necesity is truly the mother of invention, we would soon MAKE it habitable. humans are like that. we’re good at making things suit us.
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Purple Panda
in July 22nd, 2006 @ 14:36Have you ever seen “Day After Tomorrow”? It’s kinda creepy
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Bird
in July 22nd, 2006 @ 14:5618) No we are not. Humans so make things suit themselves but we use brute force and damaging methods to do so!
#6) i think that 9/11 just scared Americans; it was not really a huge big deal to the rest of the world.
As for the Lebanese- Israel conflict-i must admit i don’t know much about it but i feel sorry for the Israelis because their land has seen so much blood already, the Crusades for example.
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FantasyFan?!?!
in July 22nd, 2006 @ 15:33there was no israel during the crusades. the land was held by muslims then.
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Sweet Melpomene
in July 22nd, 2006 @ 15:5419- Yes, I have! The effects were pretty cool……they remind me of the recent hurricanes…*runs off and comes back wearing a snowsuit*
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FantasyFan?!?!
in July 22nd, 2006 @ 16:27does anyone think theres a world war III going on?
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100% cotton
in July 22nd, 2006 @ 19:3323- no. there is alot of fighting going on, for sure, but i don’t think it amounts to a world war. yet.
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K. Z. A. Pentatonikk
in July 22nd, 2006 @ 20:3316 (dlod)- Yes, I can. While I will agree that what’s going on in China is a lot worse than what’s happening here. Many ordinary Chinese citisens don’t condone torture and wish their government would stop oppressing them. Many ordinary American citisens don’t condone torture, but our government goes ahead and does it anyway. Torture is against the U.S. Constitution (cruel and unusual punishment), but that hasn’t stopped them. They just export it to other countries, often ones in the Middle East. (Exporting torture is where you send a detainee overseas to a country with fewer restrictions on torture than the one that holds them.)
So, what does everybody else think on torture?
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The Skipper Nancy
in July 22nd, 2006 @ 20:54(16- dlod) Hold on a second- you might want to rethink that. Hiding the fact that your torturing people is just as bad, if not worse, than doing it openly. If you do it openly, every knows that you’re a bad government and that you don’t respect human rights and therefore they can fight back. If, however, you torture people in secret and deny that it goes on (like the US), there’s not much anyone can do.
(18- seamonster) You said that “Earth naturally changes temperature”. True, but when people say “global wamring” they are reffering to the unnatural heating of the earth, caused entirely by humans (and which nature can’t balance out)
And yes, we would be able to survive most likely but
(1) Lots of people would die because so many huge cities would be under water and many places would become unihabitable
(2) you mentioned humans surviving, but what about non-humans? Think of the destruction to the environment, which takes longer to adapt to such huge changes. Without trees we can’t breathe.I don’t know as much about the history of the Israel-Lebannon conflict as I should, but it seems to me that part of the problem is the fact that every time one side does one thing, the other retalliates with an attack the exponentially worse.
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dark lord of darkness
in July 23rd, 2006 @ 00:5425+26-what ti meant is, america is simply a much better place to live than china, and while i dont like our current govenrnment at all, i think that it is a lot better than china’s government. Correct me if i am wrong, but i think that our government at leasat thinks that it is helping its people, and tries to do the same, while china’s govenment is quite corrupt, and thinks mostly in the intrest of itself, and some broader idea of the country. For example, china’s censorship, replacing many things with governtment propaganda.
All tha i’m saying, is , as bad as america seems from the point of view of a resident of a liberal democratic cpuntry, China is much worse.18- i dont even know what tosay to that, there is so much wrong with what you are saying.
but, but, google it, and you will find out what is bad about global warming, and that it is a fact requiring immediate action on our part.
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dark lord of darkness
in July 23rd, 2006 @ 00:5915- about torture-absoloutly not.
the worst thing that you should do to someone, nomatter what they have done, if you are fully in control, is to imprison them for life. About Guantanamo, well, ,torturing people without trial, or reason is not really good. To put it as mildly as humanly possible
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K. Z. A. Penty
in July 23rd, 2006 @ 09:4418 (seamonster)- So, exactly what are you saying? That you believe in global warming, but you don’t believe it’s a problem? Well, I guess you’re a step ahead of people who won’t even acknowledge that it’s happening, but it is definitely a problem. As the Skipper said, many animals are dying out from global warming and other human activity, and the rate is so high that most scientists are calling it another mass extinction. But global warming ahs impacts on humans as well. It increases the intensity, number, and effects of hurricanes, which kill a lot of people and displace even more. (Witness Katrina and Rita.) Also, if the ice caps melt, most islands and coastal cities will be underwater. I think that nearly half of the U.S. population lives in coastal counties, which means that nearly half of the U.S. population will have to move farther inland due to global warming. This has started already, though not here: many islands in the Pacific are slowly being submerged by rising sea levels. My point? Global warming does exist (heads up, Mr. President, this means you), and it is a problem.
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seamonster
in July 23rd, 2006 @ 10:1820 (bird)- if it’s making it suit us, how can it be all that damaging?
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seamonster
in July 23rd, 2006 @ 10:2329- okay, maybe it is a problem, but if it gets bad enough people will either a) stop global warming, or b) build hurricane/flood proof cities.
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Jadestone
in July 23rd, 2006 @ 10:4631- However, part of the problem is if we don’t know [i]how[/i] to stop global warming, or build floodproof cities. And it’s happining now.
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dark lord of darkness
in July 23rd, 2006 @ 14:16that isnt true, we do know how to stop global warming
its very simple.
reduce energy use an carbon emmissions
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Bird
in July 23rd, 2006 @ 14:4430) damaging to future generations i think, and making things suit us tends not to work in the long run, i don’t think mere humans can our-smart all of nature.
Also, i keep hearing about polor bears turnign to canabalism which people say is un-natural for them, it means that they are not getting enough food the natural way. People(scientists) think thast has to do with global warming.
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seamonster
in July 23rd, 2006 @ 19:3633- thanks. and what happened to MG?
oh, there’s an article at livescience dot com on global warming. it’s interviews with a lot of different people on what they think of it.
[link snipped by GAPA]
that’s not a link.
GAPA, please don’t zap this.[seamonster, that was a link. And it didn’t work. And now I’ve zapped it. Curious Musers will be able to find it easily enough on their own, though. — Rosanne]
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Eccentric the Afterthought
in July 23rd, 2006 @ 20:2323 – Not yet, but I’m afraid we’re not far from it. I was just in Italy and France for three weeks and none of the people I talked to really liked America. If the USA gets into trouble now, I don’t think many countries are going to want to help.
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Purple Panda
in July 24th, 2006 @ 08:1518 – In my opinion, Global warming IS a problem. Do you know how rapidly the polar ice caps are melting?
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Sweet Melpomene
in July 24th, 2006 @ 09:31GAPA (35) – I’m pretty sure that site was featured in Muse…Just the page with the top ten ways to destroy the earth…
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Veralidaine
in July 24th, 2006 @ 10:26Al Gore’s lost his mind. I love Rush LImbaugh(sp?)
and Hot Topic’s a cool store.
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100% cotton
in July 24th, 2006 @ 11:57Global Warming is definitley happening and it’s a very, very big problem.
torture is wrong. and what people did at guantanamo is unspeakably horrible.
what do you guys think about the death penalty?
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Capricious the great and terrible
in July 24th, 2006 @ 13:3139- No it’s not. It’s gross, and sick, and seems like the kind of place a person whould murder someone. Need I go on? I will wether you like it or not, After all, is this not a ranting thread?
Anyways, They sell really gross stuff and the people who work there lokk like thier dead. They have piercings in places I didn’t even know could be pierced! Like thier chin and neck andfingers! *Shivers* They wear all this goopy makeup that makes them look even more dead.
The people who are gothic around here are always like “The reason I’m gothic is becuase I’m unique and a rebel and an individual.” Yeah. Sure.
FYI !!! There are thousand’s of people that dress, act, and behave like you do! The individuals are the people that live life in thier own way. The people who get out there and do something! Rather than just sitting around here going “I’m the smartest person ever, I nobody understands me, I hate my life.”
Hello!!! DING DING DING!!!!!! PEOPLE! If you hate your life, get out and make it better!!!!!! Don’t just sit there being dead!!!!
Look in the mirror and ask yourself: Is this really how I want to be?SPREAD THE WORD!!!
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Zallie
in July 24th, 2006 @ 14:16Musers,
What do you think of Condi Rice’s announcement that peace talks are not an immediate priority?
I’m not sure of her reasoning for this, so I’d like to hear some opinions before I pitch in. My first reaction is that nothing is more important than peace, but I don’t know very much about the issue.
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Sweet Melpomene
in July 24th, 2006 @ 14:2041- Are you referring to Hot Topic? It’s not that bad. That’s where I got my GoF t-shirt! And they got a Salad Fingers shirt… The [to borrow Penty’s term] pseudo-goth kids are rather annoying, though.
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dark lord of darkness
in July 24th, 2006 @ 15:1442-ummm didnt know she said that, or why, butnot peace talks?
so, war talks instead?
its a great thing that lots of people are dieing, so dont dtop killin them?
39-what about al gore makes you think that he has lost hism ind?
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Ruffled Grouse
in July 25th, 2006 @ 05:04The death penalty is WRONG! Why would you kill people for killing? Then you would be the killers too. Killing people is WRONG!
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Narwhal
in July 25th, 2006 @ 15:5140- I vote no until there is a 600% certainty that they did it.
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dark lord of darkness
in July 25th, 2006 @ 16:0045-totally
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Sweet Melpomene
in July 25th, 2006 @ 16:55The Death Penalty does make life easier on all except the person on the Death ende….really, if people just get LWOP, think of all of the taxes spent on their food, healthcare, etc. Better food and healthcare than random people with poor jobs and run-down housing get, too. Sad, eh?
But I’m still against it.
One option is having criminals do hard manual labour for the rest of their lives. Or until it isn’t physically possible. They could replace the illegal immigrant work force on some levels, that is, putting someone guilty of grand larceny out in the open to pick crops or something would be fine; letting a serial killer out there is probably a bad idea.
I think their assets should be frozen/sold/whatever and the money should be used to take care of them while in prison. Takes at least some of the trouble off of the hands of the taxpayers. If they have a family that needs support, taking anything explicitly under the criminal’s name would be totally okay.
Sorry for the really long post. I hope at least part of it made sense…
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Capricious the great and terrible
in July 25th, 2006 @ 18:4743- SALAD FINGERS IS JUST PLAIN CREEPY!!!!!!!!!!!! And what the heck does GoF mean anyways!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!
45- Yes! I agree! I’m still againtst it, but is it , really considered murdering if you do it for the government. If they kill someone becuase they have mental disabilities, they should be sent to a hospital to be rehabilitated. I’m not sure if that’s the right word for it, but you know what I mean. If they do it becuase they are angry, they should find out what the conflict was before they take action. As for killing people to get them out of the way, or becuase they simply don’t like them. Then (Sorry if it sounds gruesom) they should either keep em’ in jail and (As Melpomene said) do manula labot umtil it’s not possible, or acually kill them but without pain. I mean, It dependds on how the murder is. (What weapon they used, under what circumstances, blah blah blah…). If it is very extreme (Like Hitler.) Then I suppose, killing the murderer (Which sounds really wierd by the way) is an option.
But they shouldn’t to it in in a painful way, like throwing rocks, or using sharp objects.Poison would be better. (I”M NOT SUGGESTING IT!!!)
Either way, killing is wrong.This should all be avoided in the first place!!! If they know someone who could kill a person, tell the police!!! It could all be avoided!!!
46- *Ahem* They ALWAYS make SURE that they did it before they kill them.
Imagine what would happen in the government read all the great ideas on museblog! Why, we would gange the world!!!
Dat vas very long. Vhoo!…
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Zallie
in July 25th, 2006 @ 19:44Just throwing in my ‘yay’ vote here to match everyone else’s. I disagree with the death penalty on so many levels. First off, a life is a life. Killing someone will not mend (or even erase) their crimes. Two wrongs don’t make a right, as we all learnt in preschool. Even for people who’ve comitted awful, awful crimes (mass murder, terrorism etc.), death is not the answer. I don’t believe hard labor is an option in cases like that, unless it is in an extremely secure environment, which seems like a waste of resources. Solitary confinement makes more sense to me.
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Sweet Melpomene
in July 25th, 2006 @ 19:4449- He is creepy, but in a funny way…GoF = Goblet of Fire, the 4th Harry Potter book….they didn’t have a Ravenclaw shirt, though. *mutters darkly* Hmm, if the government read MB? They’d arrest us because of Mostly Harmless but secretly hire us as pie-throwing spies. No, not really. Hopefully they’d get some wonderful ideas.
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dark lord of darkness
in July 25th, 2006 @ 21:3949-um, sorry to say, but “46- *Ahem* They ALWAYS make SURE that they did it before they kill them.” thats not true
they think that they know, because, well, duh
however, quite a few times, the’ve found out that people that have recieved the death penalty were inocent, using dna testing etc
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Zallie
in July 25th, 2006 @ 22:3452 – yeah, that’s bothers me. If they figure out that someone’s innocent afterwards, well it’s too late to do anything about it. That must be heartbreaking for that person’s family .
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Copper Yeti
in July 25th, 2006 @ 23:48Any and all New Yorkers in here: Tell me: Did you watch the debate Between Suozzi and Spitzer?
Both of them brought up some good points, but in the end I think it was Spitzer that appealed the most to the people because of the way he brought humor into the debate
Quotes:
“I don’t remember taxing your tea”
Souzzi: yes, I would want to run for president
Spitzer: Good luck with that,TomOne thing I didn’t like was that the focus was on New York City. The Upstate/Downstate divide was brought up a number of times, however, and for that, i am thankful.
My parents are going to vote for Spitzer because hes, quote, “Good for the Jews”. I really am undecided, since they both made good points. one thing I want to see is Gay Marriage legalized in New York State, something Spitzer supports. So yeah, i guess I’m rooting for Spitzer.
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Sweet Melpomene
in July 26th, 2006 @ 06:3153- Urg, it would. And to the person, too…going through the trial knowing (s)he was innocent…then getting the death penalty, too. Ouch.
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Purple Panda
in July 26th, 2006 @ 11:33Death Penalty…I don’t think it’s the right thing.
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dark lord of darkness
in July 26th, 2006 @ 18:4054-didnt watch, but tottally spitzer
hes gonna win anyhoo tho (spitzer)
alllways vote 4 da liberal
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Eccentric the Afterthought
in July 27th, 2006 @ 18:27The death penalty doesn’t seem right to me. I agree with Zallie in post 50, two wrongs don’t make a right. Killing the criminal doesn’t erase the crime or help the victim, so it doesn’t really accomplish anything. This is particularly true for criminals who have committed very serious crimes. For example, killing a terrorist doesn’t solve anything, it just gives the country (assuming the terrorist is foreign) more reason to attack and gives the terrorist a quick end without having to pay for his/her crimes. Solitary confinement would be better because it would both ensure future safety for the victim and everyone else and force the guilty person to live and face the consequences of his/her actions.
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dark lord of darkness
in July 27th, 2006 @ 19:5658- yay! *endorses ETA*
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Bird
in July 28th, 2006 @ 19:54i know this was ages ago but about #33
We DO know how to stop global warming but we are too lazy and pampered as a race to do it.the death penalty.
i think someone like Hitler or Kim Jung ill deserve to die because they have committed so much evil. People who kill less amounts of people (that sounds morbid but i don’t know how to phrase it differently) should only be imprisoned for a long long long time. About mentally ill people who murder. My dad heard about this guy who was mentally ill and killed someone, hospitalized for 10 years and they freed and he went and killed another person. i don’t know how common that is but i don’t think that mentally ill people should be imprisoned for life but i also don’t think that they should be let go of if they will kill more.On a lighter note- MG was a fantastic museblogger who quit museblog because she thought the stuff we talked about was getting sort of petty… i agree with her in some ways, people sometimes make pointless posts and that bugs me as well. There are not many pointless ones on this thread though!! Well she was conservative and a good debater and sense so many museblogers are liberals it was nice to have a good debating conservative.
i joined museblog right after she quit. *sigh*
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Otzi
in July 28th, 2006 @ 23:23The city I live in has been deemed the forefront in fighting Global Warming. My Mom drives a Prius, our entire community runs on Hydroelectric power, and….I bet we will be underwater, too.
[Nasty word deleted by GAPA and replaced with a slightly less nasty one. — Rosanne]
Poo.
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Silver Dragon, formerly Dragonsrock828
in July 29th, 2006 @ 08:39To start a new rant/debate:
What does everyone think of George Bush?
(Runs and hides, thinking that htis could get ugly)
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the man for aeiou
in July 29th, 2006 @ 10:51down with him
and chaney ,too
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Otzi
in July 29th, 2006 @ 22:30OH MY GOD. OOOOOPs. um… I really did not mean to type that in post # 61. WHY DID A GAPA NOT SNIP IT? I formally retract the last word in post # 61 and replace it with “poo.”
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Otzi
in July 29th, 2006 @ 22:35About the Death Penalty: I think it is not a good idea. Not for moral reasons, but because no case is ever CONCRETE. If you killed a criminal convicted of murder and then re opened the case 20 years later to realize that he was innocent…
About George Bush: I oppose him and all his warmonger cronies and his theocracy and racism and sexism. Don’t even get me started.
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Rosanne Spector (Administrator)
in July 29th, 2006 @ 23:01Well, Otzi, (64), I let that extra-colorful word slide because I wasn’t in a snippy mood. But you’re right, I should’ve snipped. So now I have.
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Axa
in July 30th, 2006 @ 00:16Here is my take on Bush:
He is a man who is smart enough to get somewhere, but not smart enough to do anything once he is there. This applies for different things. I think he needs to read Washington’s Farewell Address. As does everyone. Especially that part about not being geographically loyal or politically. WE’RE ALL AMERICANS HERE unless you aren’t in which case you are lucky in certain areas. And no so much in others. Whatever.
Chaney is just a big jerk. He’s beating on homosexuals while his own daughter is gay. ITells you something about his character.
And as far as the death penalty goes, I agree with Otzi on that one, as it does make sense.
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68
Sir Penguin
in July 30th, 2006 @ 08:44Bush is a complete idiot. That’s all I have to say.
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The Skipper Nancy
in July 30th, 2006 @ 10:00*de-lurks*
George Bush does not care about the things a president should care about. He cares about power and money, as does most of the government. They distort real fact in order to justify their actions. They play to America’s overinflated sense of patriotism and pride. They base their actions off of faulty logic and ideals that shouldn’t apply to government. They care only about keeping power in the hands of the rich.
….There’s the Skipper’s take.
*re-lurks*
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Ebeth The Stalker
in July 30th, 2006 @ 10:3567-YES! Washington’s farewell address. It would do him loads of good. If he let it, which i doubt, but whatev.
Y’all know what i think about bush, or mostly anyway. I’ll stay out. done enough bush-bashing.
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Axa
in July 30th, 2006 @ 12:16(68) You should say why; it comes across the wrong way if not. This is Hot Topics, we won’t pie you for your views. -would rather eat pie than throw it-
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The Skipper Nancy
in July 30th, 2006 @ 14:52Did you guys here about how an audit just found that the State Department hid the real costs of projects in Iraq? I just read about it in the NY Times.
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Copper Yeti
in July 30th, 2006 @ 15:54Washingtons farewell address also said we shouldn’t make allies, and if we kept to THAT, Israel would be off the map.
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Zallie
in July 30th, 2006 @ 17:3558 – that’s an excellent point for the solitary confinement argument, especially the ‘living with the consequences of their actions’ bit. Well said.
This is one of the things that bothers me about Museblog: the constant Bush-bashing. Now, I’m as liberal (and probably more so) than the next person, but it really irks me to see people jumping on the Bush-bashing bandwagon around here, because it’s ‘cool.’ Back up your ‘horrible president’ remarks with facts. Take some time to do some research into his policies. Read the newspapers! Look through articles online! Read debate transcripts!
I think that’s what bothers me (and probably MG too) the most, all the empty ‘I hate Bush’ comments. If they were more substantial, I wouldn’t mind them so much.
And it seems like most of our Hot Topic discussions go straight to Bush and the way he’s running the country, which makes me sad. However disgusted we are with what he’s doing, we should be able to discuss other issues (like global warming) without bringing them all back to him. He’s not responsible for everything that goes wrong in the world.
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Otzi
in July 30th, 2006 @ 17:49What is the virdict on Abortion rights? (this gets controversial, Muse style.)
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Zallie
in July 30th, 2006 @ 22:3275 – I may not entirely agree with abortion, but I also don’t believe anyone should be able to tell anyone else what they can and can’t do with their body, most especially the government. If a woman feels like she wouldn’t be a good mother, or isn’t in a position to responsibly handle a baby, she shouldn’t have to carry it. The world’s already filled with unwanted babies, why should we bring more of them into the world on the basis of ‘it’s morally wrong not to!’. It’s more morally wrong to ask a woman to carry a baby that she doesn’t want.
(I’m not really comfortable with people having children as it is, because of the number of children in orphanages and the tax on the environment etc. but that’s a whole nother kettle of fish. I’m willling to discuss it, if people are interested, though.)
Would I get an abortion? I don’t know. It would really depend on the situation, the father and how well I feel I could look after a child. I don’t think anyone can really honestly say ‘I would never get an abortion’ or ‘I would get an abortion’ before they’ve actually had make that decision.
So, in short, I support a woman’s right to choose, but I don’t believe abortion is a decision to be made lightly.
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Otzi
in July 31st, 2006 @ 00:07exactly. It should be the woman’s own choosing.
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100% cotton
in July 31st, 2006 @ 11:27did you guys know that in the US when you’re on death row they don’t even tell you when they’re going to kill you? you’re just there indefinitley.
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Otzi
in July 31st, 2006 @ 12:11That would SUCK!
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Em
in July 31st, 2006 @ 12:23100%, that’s just annoying. i agree with zaillie and otzi on abortion. im torn 2 ways on its morality, but i definately think its the womans right.
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Otzi
in July 31st, 2006 @ 15:08What are the opinions of same-sex marriage?
I think marriage=love, no matter who it is between.
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Zallie
in July 31st, 2006 @ 20:24Not allowing same-sex marriages is just another form of discrimination, something America is supposed to be against. Love is love, regardless of who’s involved. Individual churches/priests shouldn’t have to preform gay marriage ceremonies if they’re not comfortable with it, but aside from that, all churches should be able marry two people even if they’re of the same gender.
I don’t even understand the argument against gay marriage. People have tried to expalain it to me, but I just can’t see the sense in forbidding two people who love each other to enjoy the legal benefits of marriage.
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Axa
in August 1st, 2006 @ 01:25Okay, guys, I’m seeing this on other threads too: don’t just say something and give no reason for it when it’s not a totally random kind of thing.
Good: PIE IS FUNNY!!!1111eleven
Bad: I hate George Bush he should burn in a pit.
The latter isn’t nice, the former is random. Know the difference.
Separation of church and state. We should not even be having this discussion in my opinion. Any religious reasons that may cause a person to object to same-sex marriage is null and void according to the Constitution; that is to say, same-sex couples should be,by law do believe, allowed to be married in a court room.
We’ve gone over that a lot; how about this flag burning nonsense? If they pass that law, there will be a ridiculous amount of technicalites that will have to be gone over, as Doonsbury pointed out to me.(As in what counts as desecration or disrespect? ) Each to be gone over by the Supreme Court individually. Those people have better things to do. Besides, the FIRST AMMENDMENT. FREEDOM.OF.SPEECH.
Lord, I don’t even know why it’s suddenly an issue.
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Zallie
in August 1st, 2006 @ 10:06Thank you Axa! I completely agree with your reasoning for gay marriage and the fact that arguments should be backed up.
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The Skipper Nancy
in August 1st, 2006 @ 14:09Same sex marriage:
OK, I can understand why certain churches would choose not to allow it, if it goes against their religion. But the government isn’t the church, and shouldn’t be controled by church based values. And there are such things as secular weddings. Meaning, weddings that are official but completely unreligious. If you can have non-religious weddings, then you can have marriages that the certains chirches don’t agree with.And as for the flag desecration thing… I completley agree with Axa. Also, to make another point, it’s competely ridiculous to make an issue about disrespecting a peice of cloth when we can’t even respect the lives of other living things. We’re at WAR. Killing people. And we’re destryoing the environment. Let’s get our priorities straight.
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Otzi
in August 1st, 2006 @ 15:18hear hear!
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87
MontgomeryGurl
in August 1st, 2006 @ 18:38From what I can tell from just skimming, this thread is basically all the liberals on MB (everybody) agreeing with each other. Kind of ammusing, actually.I would stir up controversy, but I’m not going to be around long enough to defend my veiws, and I can’t stand people who throw out their opinion and then run away. So you’ll have to do without my thoughts. (If someone really, really wants to know how I feel about… well, everything, just go to one of the first Hot Topics threads) Have a nice time.
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Purple Panda
in August 1st, 2006 @ 19:46I HATE GEORGE BUSH AND EVERYTHING HE THINKS IS A GOOD IDEA
really…don’t get me started
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Axa
in August 1st, 2006 @ 19:47It’s boring without you MG. -sob-
Though we try more to whack people into actually explaining why they think a certain thing.
I do think there are more conservative MBers, I just have yet to see anyone post against something as eloquently as you used to MG. :3 Or at all really. Perhaps we need some advertising. xD
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Robert Coontz (Administrator)
in August 1st, 2006 @ 20:33You know, MBers have been labeling themselves and one another as “liberals” and “conservatives” for almost a year now, but I don’t think anyone on the blog has ever stopped to explain what those terms mean. It might be instructive to hear some definitions.
How’s that for a hot topic?
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MontgomeryGurl
in August 1st, 2006 @ 21:21Good point, Robert. Well, when I say I’m a conservative, I mean I agree with a lot veiws that are kind of rooted in the past. I guess you could say that a lot of what I believe is “old fashioned”, but I base what I believe on morals and values, and I don’t believe morals and values ever get out-dated. I also tend to think of conservatives as believing in personal responsibility, and sort of letting people live with the consequences of their actions. As an example (and I’m not trying to start something here, just showing how a belief personal responsibility influences my veiws) if a woman lets herself get pregnant, she should carry the baby to full term (obvious exclusion being rape).
Of course, I’m not totally a conservative. I also have a bit of libertarian in me. Libertarians basically believe in keeping the government out of it as much as possible, and letting people make their own decisions. Because of the libertarian in me, I’m kind of torn on issues like gay marriage and legalizing drugs (though I mainly disagree with them, for various reasons).
So that’s the short explaination of what my labels on myself mean. I’m not going to get into defining liberal, as I don’t think anyone would be happy with that.
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Zallie
in August 1st, 2006 @ 22:22The way I see it is that conservative views have strong roots in the past, whereas liberal views lean more towards the future.
That doesn’t stand true for some of the issues, but I think that’s the main idea of it. Liberals seem to be more willing to utilize new modern technology and make the most of it (abortion, stem cell research) while conservatives would rather stick with what they know.
Just a few thoughts.
& 87 – amusing as it may be for you, we really do try to have interesting discussions about topics, although we may all agree on the main idea. Even within a ‘liberal’ viewpoint, there are many different thoughts and theories, which are sometimes very different. (see death penalty discussion above)
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The Skipper Nancy
in August 1st, 2006 @ 23:21From my understanding of it, here are a few main differences between the viewpoints that Americans call “liberal” and “conservative”.
Liberal:
lots of government involovement, except on social issues
more focused on labor class- I’m not sure how to state this one.
more interested in trade/communication with other countries
less interested in military
Conservative:
less government involvement, except on social issues
more isolationist (like what Washington suggested in his fairwell address)
stronger militarythis is a very skimpy, list that leaves out a lot of important information. I didn’t want to make it seem biased, though I realize it does seem to say more about Liberals. I want other people to add in what they think is true.
Interesting fact- in England and Australia, what we call Conservative is called Liberal, and what we call Liberal, is called Labor. Or at least it’s that way in Australia. I’m actually not positive about England.
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Silver Dragon, formerly Dragonsrock828
in August 2nd, 2006 @ 19:40To add to my own debate:
Bush is a complete puppet. Cheney runs the show. Bush is a terrible presidant. The only reason most of the people in my town voted for him was that he actually acnoladged (spelled wrong, I know) that it was on the map. Well, actually, it isn’t on some maps.
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dark lord of darkness
in August 3rd, 2006 @ 12:43MG- “if a woman lets herself get pregnant, she should carry the baby to full term (obvious exclusion being rape).”
that really isnt obvious at all
there are some (pardon the term) religious fanatics, that say killing is killing, no matter what, and no birth control, or abortionsLIberal:belive in equality, higher taxes, for more things, government can control more things, peace, and antio-millitary (varying degrees) freedoms, many,gun control, yes, death penalty, no, skool prayer no
COnservative:opposite, basically, equality for the white anglo-saxon upper class christians, and some jews.(that would be disagreed with):)
MG-liberals agreeing with each other is no fun.
thats why we need you
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Otzi
in August 3rd, 2006 @ 13:28We need more dissenting bloggers. Dissent is healthy in a democracy.
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97
MontgomeryGurl
in August 3rd, 2006 @ 15:31dlod #95- Well, see, actually I agree with those people who don’t see abortion for any reason as right. I do, however, see the point when people say that if the woman was raped she should be allowed to have an abortion. I personally don’t agree with abortion at all, but that’s a hard position to maintain. What I was saying in that post is that the argument of personal responsibility in abortion obviously doesn’t apply if someone was raped, but I do believe there are other arguments against abortion for rape victims.
Oh, one quick point about stem cell research: I don’t know any conservatives who oppose the research. The conservatives are arguing that government funds and tax dollars shouldn’t fund a procedure that is morally suspect. If there’s really so much promise in stem cell research, private investors should flock to it (a cure for hair loss would be worth millions; can you imagine with a cure for alzheimers would be worth in dollar amounts?), then the scientists can continue their work, and tax money from conservatives who don’t approve of this procedure won’t have to fund it. I don’t see what the problem is.
Well, this is my last post for now. Have fun on the MB!
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Axa
in August 3rd, 2006 @ 16:00(95) Those are huge generalizations for both parties.
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dark lord of darkness
in August 3rd, 2006 @ 19:5798- whaddya expect?
ya cant describe a political point of view in 2 paragraphs…
anyway, those werent parties, they were left and right
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Zallie
in August 3rd, 2006 @ 21:1991 – “if a woman lets herself get pregnant, she should carry the baby to full term.”
I’ll be perfectly honest: that line right there really upset me. You make it sound like that’s a punishment, carrying the baby, and like she brought this upon herself. That’s the exact reason I think abortion should be an option. Carrying a baby shouldn’t be a punishment. If a woman doesn’t want a baby, why should she have to have one? She will have to essentially put her life on hold for NINE MONTHS (or longer) to have a baby she doesn’t want in the first place. If that doesn’t sound like a punishment, I don’t know what does. Bringing an unwanted baby into the world won’t make the world a better place.
97 – my mistake. I should have been more clear about that.
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kiki_the_great
in August 5th, 2006 @ 17:43Did ennyone hear about what happened to mel GIbson?
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Sweet Melpomene
in August 5th, 2006 @ 18:05101- Yes, and I think he’s getting entirely too much attention over it. Stupid, really. I [unfortunately] know many people who make bigoted comments all of the time. But some random famous person gets drunk and does something any normal drunk person and/or idiot would do, they get so much press coverage. Why isn’t anything useful in the paper? We need less of this, fewer birthday announcements, and NO horoscopes. That would improve it greatly. And more Op-Eds.
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Otzi
in August 5th, 2006 @ 19:04Yes….more op-eds. like the one I wroyte that the newspaper didn’t even have the decency to write back and reject. They just didn’t print it.
*sends army of bunnies to attack opinion editors*
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Otzi
in August 5th, 2006 @ 19:58Against Abortion?
how many unwanted babies will YOU adopt?
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100% cotton
in August 5th, 2006 @ 23:47horoscopes are mildly amusing, but not really worth being in the paper. what I think is interesting is when you have a couple of people from another country who answer questions about their everyday lives or else articles about other cultures.
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The Honorable Otzi, Boian Prime Muser
in August 7th, 2006 @ 20:52and publish my op-eds.
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Purple Panda
in August 12th, 2006 @ 15:52100 – yes, I completely agree
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108
KillerQueen
in August 14th, 2006 @ 15:58I know a few of these are ancient by now, but I need to get this all out.
104- Answering your query: I think that whether or not the woman wants to have her unborn child is her own choice. Rape should definately be seen as a reason for aboriton, because she did not provoke it and I doubt she would want to have the child of a man who scarred her life and violated her body. It is her own body, she should be given the freedom to do what she wants with it. Even if the child is unwanted, I know that it might be hard for a woman to give up her child (in the exception of rape), so in all cases it should be her decision, not the government’s. I saw a bumper sticker that said “If you cut off my reproductive choice, can I cut off yours?”. Equal rights and Feminism plays a HUGE part in this. Yes, it is a defenseless human, but with the population spike and (nearing shortage of) resources we already need for the ones who made it past birth, we can’t just keep pushing it. Firstly, its her choice. Second, we can’t take a risk with the position we’re in now.
62- I can’t believe he’s the president, I really can’t. Not that I’m in denial, I’m just in awe that the people of the most powerful nation in history could be so…how do I find the words…stupid is to elect him in the first place, much less re-elect him. His father led us into a pointless war, which got him a wad of cash, so lil Dubya Jr. deicides he will follow in his father’s footsteps and basically tried to create a reason to go to war with Iraq, selling it to the ignorant people and fighting it with lies. He hid the truth from his people, hammered the law onto well-respected, undeserving people in the government, convinced his people to support the meaningless war, led them into war with a country who had nothing with 9/11, got near to iniciating the draft again and is now baby-sitting a war-torn country in the middle of a civil war. This has resulted in thousends of deaths of innocent people – both Middle-Eastern and his own: He ignored the devestation in New Orleans, being pre-occupied with “terrorists” and such. Nearly a year later, death and riots still sweep New Orleans, death and oppression still holding the Middle East.
In a nutshell, he’s a bleeding idiot and he should not be the leader of the Free World, much less anywhere else.
You see? I backed up my bashing with facts.81- I also cannot understand why people are against same-sex marrige. Now there basically aren’t any Blue states, because if you’re a homosexual and you get married, you can’t get the rights that straight people get when they marry. If you adpot a child and later get divorced, only one of the couple gets coustedy (sp.?), you leave with the amount of money and possessions you came with, unlike the other marriges. I know a former lesbian couple (they got divorced a few years ago) and one of them isn’t very well off and hasn’t been since the break-up. Now, had she had married a man, she might be in an OK position.
On homo/bi/transexuality in general: Love is love, it knows no gender, it just happens. It’s just love, its everywhere, you can’t prevent it. Not only that, but in the case of Christianity, if God loves you unconditionally, why would it matter if you were a homo/bi/transexual? Is this condemning love? It truly is digusting that people dicriminate against others who are homo/bi/transexual. Their not any different. It’s not any different than hetero-sexual love. It’s not “indecent” or “obsene” or anything like that. Morally, it just isn’t fair to scorn people after simply regarding their “unusual” orientation.OK, that’s all I can think to say for now.
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109
elassë~adael
in August 14th, 2006 @ 16:5076- I agree. I have no idea whether I personally would get an abortion or not but I think all women should have the right to decide whether or not to get one.
88- please don’t just say that. It is disrespectfull. If you indeed hate George Bush, explain your beliefs and why they clash with his. Personally I disagree with Bush’s beliefs but he is probably a nice person. Remember we’re all musers here.
100- I agree. If she was being stupid and not using birth control properly maybe it is more of her fault. But sometimes babies just happen and for one reason or another she can’t bring it to term and decides to have an abortion. I think that each woman has the right to weigh the matter carefully in her head. Abortion is not a decision to be taken lightly.
108- I agree with your last point completely. Love is love. Churches can decide to marry two people or not but two people should not have legal rights denied to them by the government. Why should the government state a religious reason to ban gay marriage? Haven’t they heard of seperation of church and state? What is wrong with being homo/bi/transexual? Isn’t it worse to be a rapist or a murder or something? Homosexual and bisexual people are just like most heterosexual people. They aren’t evil and murdering or raping people. They’re just sexualy atracted to different people.
MG!!! Come feed us the other side! We can’t discuss without differing opinions!
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KillerQueen
in August 15th, 2006 @ 14:45Seriously. I like the fact that people here agree with me, but just agreeing with everyone gets dull. (Most everywhere else I go, people are mindless conservatives. That is, they ‘think’ that way only because they were raised that way, not because they think of it themselves.) MG, come back. We want to argue and discuss things with you.
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111
Zyviva
in August 15th, 2006 @ 19:34couple quick comments.
1. abortion- as the daughter of a lawyer i just want to point out a few things. If a fetus is granted the status of a human who has already been born, where does the distinction stop?
If some one misscarries, can they be sued for neglect?
if a pregnant woman commits suicide, was it murder?
if someone kills a pregnant woman, how many deaths is the person responsable for?
If someone kills a pregant woman in self defence, would they still be murderers for killing the fetus?Gay marriage- gay people have a right to marry and enjoy the legal benifits of marrage. The government has no right to ban/discrimiante against gay marriage, but private religous institutions have the right to not preform a service for gay couples.
Anti-Bush- instead of simply saying i hate bush, I will say that i read a book called “With god on their side” which says bush did alot of things to destroy the church-state line. If eve n a quarter of it is true, its terrifying.
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112
KillerQueen
in August 15th, 2006 @ 19:57111- Those are interesting points you bring up about abortion….I must say, I hadn’t thought about it like that, but those seem very vaild, in any defense. The Pro-Lifers might not ask those questions, rather state them as a way to get women to feel guilty about abortions by saying that YES it is, in fact, murder and so on. But thanks for bringing those points into view.
That is true that religious groups can put down a request to marry a homosexual couple, but even so….It bothers me that they – of all people! – could be so discrimiatory.
As for With God On Their Side….Sounds very interesting and explains a lot simply in the title. I’m in defense of the Church-State borderline, so I might read it sometime.
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113
Zyviva
in August 15th, 2006 @ 23:14112-yes, they could claim it is murder, but what about the self defence thing?
adn yes it is discrimatory, but they are private institions and do have that right.also, about lebanon, i have seen alot of things recently about how alot of the pictures wher e hoaxes, including something about how the bombing that supposedly killed the 54 people was just a hoax. GAPA, can i post links to these things or will you just zap them?
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114
Robert Coontz (Administrator)
in August 16th, 2006 @ 06:19We’ll zap them.
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115
Zyviva
in August 16th, 2006 @ 10:04bleh
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116
The Honorable Otzi, Boian Prime Muser
in August 18th, 2006 @ 22:54I read a book called “Warrior King-the case for impeaching George W. Bush” It was Pwnage.
Has anybody else heard about the soldier who is being court-marshaled for refusing to deploy to Iraq? He says that he refuses to kill innocent people in an illegal, immoral and unethical war. He is my new hero.
I think alot of people who are radically anti-gay either have no experience with GLBT folkses or have been attracted top people of the same sex and are scared that they are Gay and not willing to admit it.
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Purple Panda
in August 19th, 2006 @ 16:35116 – Cool about the soldier. My dad didn’t draft for the army when it was required. Go him
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The Honorable Otzi, Boian Prime Muser
in August 21st, 2006 @ 22:37AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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119
Sweet Melpomene
in August 24th, 2006 @ 15:05About the soldier — hey, it’s the law. If he enlisted, he has to. I don’t think people have been drafted in ages in the US…
Bush wouldn’t be so bad if he could admit his mistakes, and fix them. Instead of pulling another Jefferson and the Ograbme. But pretty much everyone likes Jefferson now. Then fund more stem-cell research. And science in general. And delete those faith-based [something like that; I forget what he actually called them] programs.
Oh, and abolish the Equal Opportunity Employment/Enrollment thing. It’s just stupid. But that’s not really a Bush thing.
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The Honorable Otzi, Boian Prime Muser
in August 24th, 2006 @ 15:28119- Why should he be forced “by law” to go and kill people in an illegal war that technically should not be a war, as Congress never declared it. It was not a constitutional war. That is whgy it is illegal.
Jefferson… was well- meaning. He was also a hypocrite.
however, he was responsible for the Lewis and Clark expedition, which lent great comedy value to History Class. The thing itself, not its effects, which were not so great.
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121
Purple Panda
in September 2nd, 2006 @ 18:55Well…he enlisted in the Army, so he kind of committed himself there. If he didn’t want to fight he shouldn’t have enlisted. right?
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122
FrigidSymphony
in September 4th, 2006 @ 11:30The whole current affair situation is messed up. The US needs a democratic president, and fast. The middle easterns in general have to stop being so aggressive and just shut up and sit still, it’s they’re fault if they keep having wars. And all the fundamentalist crackpots saying that this signifies the beginning of the apocalypse aren’t helping the matter, they just make me feel like punching a random christian.
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Zyviva
in September 5th, 2006 @ 08:15please, no senceless/offensive/unnessacaary violence. if you really feel he need to punch someone, go punch a terrorist.
119- i doubt history wil be any where near as kind to bush as it was to jefferson. he had alot more going for him- like writing the declaration of independance.
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124
Zyviva
in September 5th, 2006 @ 08:33out of curiosity, is any one here pro-bush, anti-abortion, or anti-gay?
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125
FrigidSymphony
in September 5th, 2006 @ 13:31123: I’d punch a terrorist, but I can’t find any aorund here. The closest I’d get to is an italian driver.
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Zyviva
in September 5th, 2006 @ 13:47125-i went some where over the weekend, and what struck me as the strangest part, was that the drivers actualyly yeilded to pedestrians.
is anyone going to answer 124?
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FrigidSymphony
in September 5th, 2006 @ 13:51126: where did you go? here the pedestrians have the right of way. Unlike in your glorious bio-mechanical dollar worshiping america.
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Zyviva
in September 5th, 2006 @ 14:34it was in america. the thing is legally they have the right of way, but that doesn’t mean they get the right of way.
see the difference?and instead of using such broad terms, could you please make a specific list of things you dislike about america so we can actually have a debate.
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