MuseBlog’s ever-popular continuing forum for topics that need careful handling and/or an extra dose of civility. New version by popular demand, because everybody wants to vent but nobody wants to scroll.
305 thoughts on “Hot Topics, v. 2006.7”
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YAY!
Obama should run for President
We should rethink immigration
Abortion should be safe and legal
We need to stop overpopulating the planet
And killing the environment.
And sweatshop labor
And Factory Farming
The US should not have an official language
The war in Iraq is unethical
Meat is not evil, but not necesarily good, either
Save the fishies!
I :heart: Darwinism
Aw, Man! my heart smiley didn’t work!
(1st post!)
Oh yeah, and Gay Marriage should be a right, and we need stricter food laws.
all that and no war for the rest of the (ponders-universe?galaxy?life?) which is bigger? I know! infinity to the infinityith power! Plus no starvation.
Does post dance
MUSE MUSEY MUSEY MUSEEEEEE
KILL SADDAM HUSSEIN!!! EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLL! That is 15 L’s. Saddam is a very evil freak who killed very lots of people. My mom said that they should torture him and I agreed. I am being very harsh, but he deserves it.
I hope I did those right.
YAY!!! I did!!
So, the midterm election draws ever closer… Any thoughts or predicitons?
10- democrats will get more control, but thats obvious
Saddam Hussien was evil, so he doesn’t need to get the easy way out, and become a Martyr (sp?) He deserves to suffer life in prison. And abortion should be legal and safe. Gay marriage should also be legal.
Abortion=safe and legal
Gay marriage= legal and a right
and cloning humans= lets try, I’m not Observant
Amish massacre=that guy is a pervert x∞.
Foley= bleurgh, lets put him on probation
D/R=Democrat, Obama for 08
I think that creating a law baning gay marriage is unconstitutional. The reasons behind creating such a law are part of the christian bible. Now if some churches want to forbid gay marriage within that church, that’s fine. But you can’t ban the legal aspect of a civil union between two people for religious reasons. you can ban the religious ceremony but only if you are a church. There is no good non-religious reason why two men or two women can’t have the legal priveledges that a couple of a man and a woman have. The constitution says, in the first amendment, that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;…” Isn’t forming a law because of a religious belief against the constitution?
abortion should be legal, but not overly used and not the first option. but it should be legal for those cases when it is truly needed. gay marriage definately should be legal.
we should stop wars, and stop over populating the world and killing off species. we should treat animals fair and kill them humanely. we need to stop polution and ruining the air we breathe.
my dad, when he went to germany said when he was on the plane before takeoff, they said they had 5,000 extra pounds, and they couldn’t fly safely with that, so they sat there to burn off 5,000 pounds of gasoline. and how long were they waiting ther? 1 MINUTE!!!! it took just 1 minute to burn off 5,000 pounds of gasoline!!!! THAT’S CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHY IS POLITICS IN MUSEBLOG??????????????? *weeps* What has the word come to? *weeps some more* I need a moment. *goes in corner and weeps*
Haha, I love how everyone just randomly spouts their viewpoints now. Oh, how Museblog has changed.
7-You’re also being very illogical. And American.
10-I have to walk to school because my mom is pollwatching and has to be at the poll @ 5:45. That is my contribution to the Democratic Party. Oh yeah, and I’m wearing all my pins and stuff tomorrow. The general consensus is that it will be a very close race, and the Democrats have an edge.
I don’t actually care what happens to Saddam Hussein. He’s not my problem.
YES! (does new Hot Topics thread dance, which involves a polka-like step and a quadruple piroette and is already forgetten)
1. You pretty much said it all.
Except possibly the bit about the Iraq war.
There was a pretty reasonable rationalle in the beginning
(except for the fake-o inteligence), and if better managed
it could have brought some good to Iraq, but at the point
it is high time to give up. The US has an obligation first and
foremost to the people of the US, not thos of Iraq.
7. Torturing Saddam will do no good. What matters is that he
is never allowed to rule again. I am against capital punishment,
and that extends to people who, like Saddam, may really deserve it.
10. (coppied and pasted from November Feast where I had to post it in desperation because nobody was posting on the old hot topics thread)
So I’m not really excited about election day. (I know that this really belongs on the hot topics thread, but here’s the truth GAPAs: nobody much visits it anymore. Until you give us a new one I will continue to post stuff which belongs there on this general thread). My prediction is that the democratics gain a pretty big majority and prove that they are not really that much better than the republicans at legislating, so when the presidential election comes around and there’s a race between McCain and either Clinton or Obama or pick a democrat, McCain will probably win. So a democratic victory would not really be a victory for the democrats. Although I will admit to kind of liking McCain (yeah, I’m pretty liberal) as politicians go, but he would certainly give the republican party a lot of momentum which they would probably use to put someone I like a lot less in his office.
15. Politics is in this thread so that it does not show up in other parts of museblog
In Reply To 17- Who really cares? You get what you deserve. And he will get what he deserves. POLITICS (hoping I spelled that right) ARE NOT MEANT TO BE LOGICAL! I am in debate at school and I will argue with anyone on anything. Not to be rude but that is what I think and I know alot of people who feel that way. And what is illogical is a crazed lunatic dictator killing and torturing innocent people. So there! Bring it!
I’m confused.
On a lighter note:
In Reply To 10- I don’t really know, but apperantly my family thinks republicans will be in office no matter what. I don’t think so. My stepdad says I have the wrong values to be a republican and I agree. I value the enviroment and my family values money. I’m guessing thats why they said that.
I forgot to say something to 17- Itt may not seem like it is your problem because it is EVERYONE’s problem.
7-the same could be said for bush
19- but what DOES he deserve? who are we to determine what he deserves? what is too much punishment and what is too little? how do you determine what is deserved?
7- do two wrongs make a right? Wouldn’t killing Saddam bring us down to his level? Even though we’re already lower than that because we’ve killed more Iraqis than Saddam has. I guess killing Saddam is what should happen, but no one should be tortured, showing him what it’s like won’t solve anything, but whatever they do to Saddam should happen to some certain Americans like the ones at Guantmono Bay.
22- yeah, good question… I’m gonna be thinkin on that for a while to even come up with an answer other than ‘yeah’. You pretty well said it.
At least where I live, even though it’s very ‘red’ on the maps, I think Democrats will prevail because their Republican opponents are #$^&#
Well, unfortunately…I think Granholm’s gonna take the MI governorship(sp?) again…*sigh*…that’s really depressing. Of course, DeVos wouldn’t be all that great, either, but at least he’d be a change…I don’t agree with all of either candidate’s views, so it’s a lose-lose situation. Not that many of you care about MI, but just thought I’d say it.
And thank you for the HT thread, GAPA’s!
OK, now that we’re finished summarizing everything said on the last HT thread, anyone have a new topic? Lets see, goes to comcast for news…, No news. Here’s a topic, anyone feel that celebrity gossip is distracting people from the real issues and news? I mean, seriously, with all thats going wrong in the world who cares if another celebrity comes out of the closet or gets a divorce/plastic surgery? In my opinion, they’re overpaid figureheads who do nothing for society, while teachers and other productive people get sucky pension plans and get paid .006 percent a year what celebreties are paid for an autograph. What is the world coming to that we cannot see this?
16) Is this a good thing or a bad thing? Or just a fact.
I don’t think we should torture anybody, no matter how big a crime they committed. It isn’t fair. And killing somebody is murder. Don’t kill Saddam.
25- Yup. My mom even canceled People… *sniff*
21-True. He did let those soldiers torture those people in prison. I didn’t see him trying to stop it.
22- Also true. Only God knows what he deserves. And we are obviously not God.
Execute saddam. Use the killing methods he used on his own people. Poetic justice.
25: Celebrity gossip is bollocks. Most of them are stupid, unintelligent people with no real talent at all (coughparishiltoncough). I’d shoot most of ’em for a dollar.
Just a short factual note: Saddam Hussein is being tried in Iraq by Iraqis, and any sentence will be carried out by Iraqis. It’s more accurate to talk about what “they” should do with him.
Yes but….. okay, I have nothing to say……
25-I completely agree…it’s just plain stupid. Most of us are totally blind to the important world events, and instead are totally wrapped up in who’s going to be the next American (or whatever country you come from) Idol, or something like that. It’s pathetic, really.
29-Excellent idea about Saddam. But I wouldn’t shoot the celebrities…it’s not really their fault that we pay so much attention to them…it’s ours.
If I can make a radical statement. I think the parties need to be done away with. Politics now aren’t really about issues. they are about Demecrates said this and Republicans said this. its really just about choosing sides now. we should be focusing on issues, not sides.
Saddam is going to be hanged
that’s the trial’s verdict
I think there will be repercussions on America
terrorism
horrible!!!
29- What celebrity WOULD you shoot?
34- His followers are going to take thier hate out on the world now. But, when he is killed, there will be at least 1 less evil freak in the world so that is (not much) some progress.
33-Good idea.
Hello. Hussein is being tried in Iraq. By Iraqis. Yanks have nothing to do with it.
i dont care how bad he is, i think saddam hussein at least deserves a quick and painless death. or life rotting in prison . . . but NO hanging!!!
33 — yes, love the issues, the issues are good . . .
1 — its like looking into my own brain . . .
7 — NO! NO TORTURE! weell . . . except psychological . . .
12 — something about those girls makes me want to bite something . . . seriously . . . realrealreal hard . . .
phew! this is getting a little to deep for me . . . Ill just say that
i believe in a womans right to choose abortion/no abortion
i think gay marriage should be legal even though i find it sort of creepy, mostly because i dont know anyone whose gay or lesbo . . . but thats really okay, i dont have anything against it or anything
we need to pull out of iraq NOW and start fixing OUR country for a change.
we need to stop polluting the air/water/earth, stop global warming NOW, not like 10 years from now, and we need to stop killing off the rainforest/the ocean/species in general
I think that if I got into it, celebrity gossip would be fun in the same way that if I got into spectator sports they would be fun. Until that day I will mercilessly mock those involved. What I want to know is why real celebrities are so much more entertaining than imaginary characters on TV? You know what we really need now… periodicals like the one that Charles Dickens published in. It would be just like TV soap operas, except written. That’s not really a hot topic. I appologize.
7- Kill him? I’d rather lock him up in a fluffy, pink, isolation chamber. Muhahaha, solitary. I’m not a fan of the death penalty, can you tell?
19- True, it is quite illogical, but what right have we to deny him, his life? Revenge is hopeless, a vicious cycle. Don’t get me wrong, I do think people are best without him, but let’s give him time to mull things over. I couldn’t shove people into wood-choppers without feeling absolutely horrible about it.
10- I hate Rick Santorum. If he wins in my state, I shall cry. I’m not very fond of Casey, either…. Why? Because he is an Intelligent-Design-supporting fiend. Look it up.
13- Well stated. That being said, I’m totally for the removal of “God” from currency and the pledge.
29- Wouldn’t it be more fun to let them catscratch each other to the death? Joke, people. But whatever. They don’t concern me. If they help in Africa, kudos to them. People are being helped, regardless of the reason. *coughpublicitycough*
I’m personally against abortion, though I do acknowledge a person’s right to a choice. I think it’s deplorable, but if women want to do that….so be it. It’s about the same as my policy on eating anything containing bits of any dead animal. *grits teeth* Except for partial-birth abortions. If you’re going to partially have the kid, just finish it and put it up for adoption. Gosh.
40 — I tooooooooootally agree about the “God” thing. I don’t even say the pledge most days.
When I grow up I am sooo moving to Europe — and buying an electric car!
weep for me. 
40 (again) — thankyouthankyouthankyou!!! (if my italics didn’t work i apologize). a pro-life person who acknowledges choice!! For me that is, like, incredible. I’ve never met one before, you see.
12- human cloning is only a problem on the following two grounds-
a- the world is over populated already
b- a clne is as much human as any one else. if a human as cloned, koze’s clone must be treated as a person and not a lab experiment.
13- while i am a firm believer in the right of people to gay marriage- it is their business afterall- the only semi-logical argument against it is that marriage is an anceient rite with the intent of haveing children.
the amount of holes in that logic are immence- for example, gays adopt, and not all “traditional” married coupls choose to have children
40- god does not belong on the currenc, or in the pledge or anywhere else in he govt. saying god establishes a religous belief,. if the wish to out religion on currency it should read ‘in God/Goddess/Gods/Goddesses/God and Godess/Gods and Godesses/ intellegent design/Dawrin/none of the above We trust”
Religion and politics shouldn’t mix… Bleh.
Elections went well… I’m so happy!!
Another one? Musers sure love their contreversy.
(7) No. Saddam may deserve it, but if you can justify torturing one person, you can justify torturing almost anyone. So that’s why he shouldn’t tortured. Also, it would anger and rally his supporters.
(33) In some ways, I agree with you. I was thinking the other day about how flawed the two party system is. But I don’t think you can exactly do away with it. It would just reform itself, because people naturally split and join sides like that.
Immigration (random facts/ideas to chew on)
-Evidence points to the fact that illegal immigrant actually benefit the economy by providing cheap labor.
-America has built a wall/fence many places along the border
-It’s now a felony to help an illgal immigrant in anyway: if you see a dying person by the road, and you take them in your car to the hospital, and they turn out to be illegal, you have commited a felony.
OK, so they’re not exactly balanced and unbiased facts, but what do you guys think?
it’s moronic to say ‘pro-life’. Of course everyone is pro life. it’s just a name to make anti abortion wackos sound morally correct.
Oh and stuff I forgot to say:
My personal presidential candidate would be Jon Stewart.
and as fs for the celebrities I’d shoot, start with Paris Hilton. Then 50 cent, then britney spears, then lindsay lohan…
Abortion should be allowed…. as the ABSOLUTE last resort. There is no reason to punish the unborn baby for what his &!^* of a mother did. If they didn’t want the baby why did they do “it” in the first place?
I know that was gross but that was the only way I thought I could say it in a nice way. DID YOU KNOW: 1600 babies (unborn) are killed in my town every day at Planned Parenthood? It disgusts me.
I hope this comes out italicised.
Gay marriage SHOULD definantly be a right. / WE SIMPLY CANNOT MAKE A LAW BASED ON THE BIBLE!/ It is unconstiutional. And they’re not different from anyone else.
SM2000 (47),
Are you sure about that figure? The Centers for Disease Control recorded 1.36 million abortions in the United States in the year 1996. That’s an average of 3,726 per day in the whole country–and numbers have been dropping since then (since 1990, actually). So 1,600 per day for one town sounds pretty high.
47: I don’t consider a freshly concieved fetus a human being, no more than i consider semen to be human. and what about rape victims? or if the condom breaks?
I don’t know about that figure but that is what a sign on the road said. It was put up by people trying to close it down so I’m not totally sure about it.
41- Yay, and thanks.
41+42- It’s nice that people agree about the pledge and currency. My friends think that I’m weird when I get mad at money every once and a while.
46- Shoot Billy Graham. He’s big in my area, and his infomercials always usurp the few shows I watch.
Two points:
1. Stem-Cell research. I’m on the fence. Mostly. I’m a big supporter of scientific research, and using umbilical chords for it seems like a happy idea. And [as much as it does pain me, I must admit that] using embryos that are not adopted for research would be logical.
Gosh, people, control your reproductive systems! Then we wouldn’t have dilemmas like this. Sorry for the outburst. I’m an advocate of life and all, but reason does have its appeal
Yeah, I’m a bit contradictory. Only a bit. Too open-minded for my own benefit.
Using the right arguments and facts, it wouldn’t be hard to talk me in or out of anything. My apologies. Really, I’m not a hypocrite. i hope.
I need to check those books by Sam Harris out.
I also hope that made sense.
2. Affirmative Action. I think it is complete bull. Especially after reading the Muse on race. And because I’m a bit of a feminist. Okay, quite a bit of a feminist. Tell me if I’m taking this the wrong way. I think it could be interpreted as giving the edge in jobs, admissions, et cetera, to “minorities” because they need the edge, not to prevent any discrimination. Not that I’m denying that discrimination occurs. Because it very clearly does. I think a resume and a pre-interview over the phone or through a screen would work nicely. With an accompanying pre-interview evaluation, so the interviewer can’t change her/his mind after seeing the candidate. How time-consuming and expensive.
As a whole, we need to have a bit more trust in each other.
After all, it wouldn’t take many nuclear bombs to, well, destroy the world. Yet the USA alone has thousands, and continues to produce them. We really don’t need that many.
But the bombs are there for insurance. For protection. DID WE USE THEM AFTER 9/11? NO. It’s essentially an empty threat.
Maybe I’ll get my degree in something useful and work on an anti-atomic bomb. *begins to formulate theories*
Anyway, back to my spiel. We hounded after and invaded Iraq, which was found to be devoid of WMDs. Whoops. Paranoia, much!
And now N. Korea? You know, our country had an agreement to help build another sort of energy plant in N.K. if they agreed to abandon their nuclear research. Which they seemed to do. But their research continued secretly. I’m thinking they’re using the bombs for political leverage.
But they might have taken more kindly to the USA if the plant had been completed by 2004, as scheduled. However, in ’02 [I think…] Bush completely VOIDED it, as well as announced that N.K., as well as a few other countries [I think Iran or Iraq was included…] was part of an “axis of evil.” Way to go, you crazy evangelical! No wonder they hate us. We could have worked relations, and come on at least non-hostile, if suspicious, terms.
Fat chance of that happening now. N.K. is a danger to the entire bloody world now. Hell, so are we…one wrong move by any world power, and…*shudders*
I have no problem with abortion.
It’s adoption I have a major issue with.
Seriously. I don’t have a problem with abortion at all. Legislators do not get to decide women’s reproductive rights. At all. Full stop. Period. Pun intended.
Does anyone else support genetic engineering?
I agree with SM2000 in post 47 on those issues.
49†FrigidSymphony†: I think whether one is pro-life or pro-choice all comes down to whether they think of human fetuses as people or not. I mean, no one would say, “I support the killing of babies.” and no one would say, “I support not giving women rights over their own bodies.” I do think of fetuses as full-fledged humans, so the rights involved are the rights of both the mother and the kid. And the kid has a right to life. In cases of rape, if the mother really wants to do that, i’d say go ahead. But if i was just raped, i would think the last thing i’d want to do is go out and kill my own baby. If the condom breaks? They should have used it in conjunction with some other contraceptive.
Saddam: I don’t think he should be tortured or killed. I have no say in the matter, but that’s what i think. Maybe i’m just weird, but i don’t think criminals, no matter what they did, should be treated any differently than normal people. Not to say that they shouldn’t be punished at all, but whatever is done should be purely in the interest of keeping citizens from danger. I’m against capital punishment and life setences. Capital punishmet is murder. Just becuase the victim is a criminal doesn’t make it anything different. If the person is absolutely so dangerous that it would be foolish to expose society to him (or her), then a life sentence would in order. Otherwise, give the person a chance to change their ways. I know at least one ex-murderer, so i believe that people can change. I’m getting sappy, this is really long and i have homework. I’ll come back later.
My opinions:
Marriage is the union of two (or more, depending on religion) people.
Affirmative action is discrimination – just not against minorities.
Abortion should be safe, legal, early-term, and rare(partially paraphrased and quoted from some politician, I forget who, but it stuck in my mind and I agree)
The stem cells used for this would be thrown out otherwise. That’s worse than helping people with them.
Religion and politics should be completely separate, which is why I’m not Republican now.
Not sure about the death sentence or immigration.
I’m pro-scientific research, I think. Which means that I want science not religion taught, I want to give our scientists access to stem cells and cloning and whatever else there is for the greater good, not nuclear bombs unless for space travel power.
did anyone read my rant in post #13?
I did, you made a very good point.
On genetic engineering, it would be nice if we could all get natural products, but some countries can’t afford it. They need crops that are engineered to withstand the climate in order to feed people.
(52, Queenie) By genetic engineering, you mean in foods and things like that? I partially support it. I mean, I fail to see what’s wrong with it. On the other hand, I think it’s the kind of thing that may seem fine now, but 20 years down the road, we may realize there are problems with it. But honestly, if there’s a way to make larger amounts of more idealy nutritious food, and there are kids starving in Africa, who am I to object?
(55) Yes, I just did, and Zyviva did too (42). I haven’t ever heard it put so rationally and clearly. But that’s exactly what I think.
(51) I’m exactly like that too! I don’t know if the blogs noticed but I’m terrible at making up my mind. Exactly as you said, to open minded for my own good. I don’t like to deny any argument that sounds well founded and well supported. Unfortunately, I still need to develop the skill of seeing through a bad and unreasonable argument that is cleverly disguised as a good one.
(51) Well, kinda. I wouldn’t exactly say they are a threat to the entire world. They have what… a few nuclear missiles? When it’s that small of an amount, it’s not that hard to detect and shoot them down while they’re in the air. They did that in Gulf War 1 (though those weren’t nuclear missiles they were dealing with). You have to remember that the issue isn’t just having nuclear weapons, it’s being able to get them where you want and cause the the destruction you want, which is a seperate problem.
26 – it’s just disheartening. i tend to stay away from this thread because of that. it’s all random posts of opinions there are several debate topics going on at once. i can’t follow anything with the ‘DIE DIE DIE SADAAM’s and the ‘ABORTION IS BAD OHNOE!’s.
& then there are the people who feel the need to back up their opinions with ‘well, i’m on the XYZ debate team and i am really good at arguing and i do it all the time, so i must be right. oh yeah, and i am really good at debating.’
it’s just so upsetting. maybe the thread should be called ‘Museblog Opinion Spam?’
53- Thank you for agreeing with me.
I totally agree with you peeps who want to take God out of the pledge and money. Did the government ever think about athiests or people of other religions in our country?
58- All I was stating is was that I know how to back up my statements. You don’t have to be rude.
I’ve always felt that God shouldn’t have any part in poltiics or government declarations…
And people should express their opinions, but be ready to back them up with arguments and debates…
53: Dammit, if you’re 15 or 16, and you get raped, would you really want to A) carry the bastard rapist’s kid inside you and B) mess up your entire life by having a baby at 16???????
58- Yeah, this thread is much more random than the last one, mostly because everyone is pretty much just repeating what was said on the last thread, instead of discussing new topics. But this little stem cell reasearch sidetrack seems interesting. Cells are gonna go to waste anyway, the “babies” have been sitting in freezers for ten years. NO ONE WANTS THEM, THEY’RE NOT ALIVE AND NEVER WILL BE! Can you believe that people accused Michael J. Fox of going off his medication for that ad? The man’s got parkinson’s for [insert your choice of diety/foodstuff here] sake! Its really pathetic when people want to win a political office so badly and are so set in their moral beliefs they accuse someone who has a horrible, debilitating disease of making himself look sicker, because of course it’s really not that bad when he’s heavily drugged! That is low.
61- language, language. there are minors present.
54- i think that was bill clinton
58- there are multiple topics at once because there are multiple hot topics in the world today. we made the rule that people have to back up the opinions which largly removed “I hate bush bacause he sucks” posts. instead, we are moving towrds “i dislike bush becasue i feel he mixes religion and politics”.
53- i think that from the time, should the fetus be born at that moment, the baby would have a reasonable chance at survival ,then aprtion should not be an option- unless it would save the mother’s life, because the mother is already an establishe dperson, while the fetus is just, well, a fetus who might die in thirty seconds anyway.
also, no offence to any males present, but at a certain point abortion is out of your ballpark. all a biological father may end up doing is writing a monthly check, while the biological mother has to carry and give birth to the infant.
63 – i understand that there are multiple issues that we need to address, but please don’t deny that five or six at once is a bit much. especially when they’ve already been debated, oh, a half dozen times.
& i don’t know that ‘i hate bush because i feel he mixes religion and politics’ is much better that what we had before. i’m all for opinions, but they tend to lose importance when they’re just statements. ‘i hate bush’ took up less space at least.
63- Yes. But it doesn’t really matter all that much. Some people *coughMEcough* use some language…. and I’m 12. And most kids have already heard those words. Now I shall type one… no. I will not.
52- no, I don’t support genetic engineering. at all.
56- yes, but it doesn’t make sence that now they need genetically modified crops and they used to be able to feed everyone without it. Granted, there is a larger population now, but on our organic, all-natural farm, we sometimes get larger yields than our conventional neighbors, so other countries shouldn’t need genetically engeniered crops. And about affording it, natural crops don’t cost as much to grow as genetically modified if you do it right. The only reason it costs more in the store is that conventional farmers lose money farming because people don’t pay enough. The way they make a living is gov’t subsities. Organic farmers sell their product for more because the people that buy organic care enough about their health that they are willing to pay the right price.
And about abortion, does it really hurt the fetus? It doesn’t make sence why it should because they could be euthanized or something, that doesn’t hurt, it’s just like going to sleeep. (so I’m told, I’ve never done it before, and come to think of it, whoever told me hasn’t done it before either. hmmm)
I don’t think we should clone people. IT is REALLY strange.
Why do you think it’s strange? Twins are clones. If you were cloned from one of your parents, you’d be born and grow up just like anyone else. You would look very similar to your parent, but of course you’d be much younger. And you’d be a different person.
People thought that in vitro fertilization (“test tube babies”–though it takes place in a Petri dish, not a test tube) was strange, too, but it doesn’t bother anybody nowadays. I have a hunch we’d quickly get used to cloning, too.
I think that cloning is a pretty good Idea. Just becuase someone is cloned off you, doesn’t mean they’ll be anything like you! I mean sure, they’ll look like you, but they won’t have the same goals, intrests, or talents!
What if I’m a twin? I don’t want people reffering to ME as a clone. It makes me (and my sister) sound like an alien or something. It makes me think of an alien when I hear the word clone.
It all depends on whether you use and understand the word “clone” the way it’s used in science, or the way it’s used in cheesy science-fiction TV shows. If you go with the scientists, hearing someone call you a clone shouldn’t be any creepier than hearing someone call you a mammal.
(66) OK, I didn’t know some of what you said. That’s interesting. But just because I’m curious (not necessarily because I disagree) what exactly is bad about genetic engineering? Because all you’ve said is why organic is just as good. But what makes GE so bad?
I really want to be a biotechnologist when I’m older, specifically working on drug developement and GM in plants. The reason GM plants are great are that you can selectively choose plants withought suseptibility to bugs, disease, early rot, blemishes, etc. You can grow organic GM crops if you grow them withought pesticides, though I now some people disagree on the definition of organic. I think it would be great if in the future we could grow plants that delivered more vitamins and minerals to the people and there is even the possibility that in the future 3rd world countries could ward of disease just by growing a field of crops. Though there are some people who doubt genetic engineering, they really just haven’t done their research. By the way, on the subject of cloning, has anyone read double identity by Margeret Peterson Haddix? It’s pretty good. I won’t ruin the plot, but it will make you look at cloning differently.
Oh, sorry to double post, but more depressing news on the global warming front; the oceans are turning acidic, and we caused it.
72-I think GE is bad because, though people can make organisms so they can’t get certain diseases, they can get other diseases. GE often produces many organisms with the same DNA information, so if a foriegn disease came, and one organism got sick, all of them would and, especially in 3rd world countries, that would be catastrophic. Organisms grown naturally have different DNA info within a species, like different people. If one organism gets sick, others might not be affected. 73- I’m not saying that you shouldn’t study it, because with studying it, it will probably improve to be a good choice for farmers, but now I don’t think GE crops should be grown, there’s too much risk. I guess I’m trying to say what TSN said in post 57, down the road, I’m afraid we’ll find problems with GE that can’t be solved.
GE brings up a whole new (very interesting debate); Can you patent life? If, say, you bred a wierd type of…camel…that was…uhm…spit free…could you patent and market it? Monsanto is doing the exact same thiong with thier “round up ready” rapeseed, and there was a recent lawsuit in Canada where Monsanto rapeseed blew onto a Organic farmer’s land, Monsanto entered and tested his plants without his permission, and sued him. He had no control over the wind and the only way he could have known it belonged to Monsanto would have been if he had sprayed it with a pesticide named “Round Up” and it hadn’t died. The lawsuit ordered him to destroy his entire rapeseed stock from the past 30 years. (see The Future Of Food. It’s a good documentary)
As for animals, Genetic Engineering in them is just plain dangerous. (coughH5N1cough) Not only does it produce deadly diseases and antibiotic resitance (animals are fed huge amounts of antibiotics to prevent them from getting sick), but it misshapes the animals and makes them dependent on humans. Turkeys, for example, have been GE’d to have larger breasts for breastmeat, and this has gone on to the point where, (I won’t go into yukky detail) they cannot reproduce naturally. Their breast muscles are too big. I will just leave your mind to infer the rest. They rely wholly upon humans for reproduction. So if we al died, the common Factory Farmed turkey would die out also.
As for Saddam Hussein- I don’t think he should be killed. But, then again, I am against the death sentence, because more death will not bring back those lost. (And HANGING?!? That’s a horribly painful, messy, and outmoded way to die.) Also, if we tried George Bush under the same court, he would be more guilty of war crimes than Saddam.
Saddam’s Charges: Forced Deprtation, Murder of civilians, Torture
George’s Crimes: Torture, Murder of 80 year old Iraqi men and rape of 14 year old Iraqi girls at the hands of the Marines, and deaths of huge numbers of other Iraqi civilians, death of American troops in an illegal war, Fraudulent Elections, Domestic wiretapping, mingling of Religion and Politics, harassment of Muslims at airports and other ports of entry, unwarranted searches…..
30~ An Iraqi court, heavily influenced by Americans, serving American interests, and in an American-run state called Iraq.
It’s an occupation.
53-Mmm…abortion is a very difficult subject…check out what my dad said on it, though. I hope the GAPA’s let me post this link…please? (We need a “puppy eyes” smiley.) [Sorry, S.K. That’s too much like posting your name. You may summarize his arguments, though. –Robert] I think it’s really good, so check it, yo! Sorry, I’m done.
80, 53: but it’s not our decision to make. You can easily say “I am against abortion, the ball of cells is human”, but, that decision is really for the woman in the position of needing one to make. If she says “It’s just a ball of cells, I don’t want a baby, it won’t have a good life, I can’t support it” then she can do that. If she says “It’s human, I want to keep it and give it up for adoption” , than that’s her decision to make, and she is responsible for her actions either way. All I am for is for her to be able to have a choice, and for her to be able to choose an option, instead of having one or the other forced upon her. That is why I am pro-choice.
80-Sorry…I didn’t think of that. But I guess it makes sense, since everyone already knows my first name…all they’d have to do is put the two together. I understand.
81-But if I decide to call a chair a table, does that make it a table? Just because we have different opinions on what something should be called, or even is, doesn’t mean that the object is what we call it.
heres what i say:
abortion:in sick women,rape victams(sp?), and young girls and women who can’t support the baby.
gay marrige:we don’t discrimant in the usa so gays sould get marriged.
stem sell recherch:yes.if the things that were abortion ( i don’t know what to call them) were used would that work? or do they have to be unfertilised?
82: Different people see it differently, and we could argue till our hair goes gray about when life begins. But, you see, (following the table analogy), it doesn’t matter whether you or I think the table is a chair or vice versa, because it isn’t our piece of furniture to name. It isn’t our decision. It honestly doesn’t matter what we think. It should be the mother’s decision. And her confedentiality is guarenteed by the fourth amendment (as cemented by Roe vs. Wade), making anti-abortion laws unconstitutional. Consider this: If abortion is outlawed, it will lead to a huge increase in illegal abortions, which often kill the mother. (Think coathanger. Think knitting needle. Yeah, it’s gross. But it happens.)
83- embryo’s or fetuses? It depends, probably they could be used if still in the embryionic stage. And it’s aborted, in “the things that were aborted” or “removed during an abortion”
“What’s in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other word would smell as sweet.” – William Shakespeare
It doesn’t matter what you call what, just as different words in different languages have the same meaning. A name does not change what something is. I could decide to call all of you “Bloop” but that doesn’t change who you are. Abortion does concern prospective though, just as any other controversial topic does. Thats where our personal views come in, like religion or experiance. Just like many people *coughveryconservativecristiansnottooffendanybodycoughcough* feel that gay people are unnatural and sinning and will go to hell, others feel that they are entitled to all that anyone else is entitled to regardless of sexual affiliation. Not to drag this back into the spotlight, but just using it as an example.
85- They might not though. It says in the bible (I don’t want to sound like a preacher or anything, but ) Jesus gave himself up for us so that we will NOT go to hell. But thats for those who have repented. Which I think most everyone has.
84 — it’s like looking into my brain . . .
in history class we had a discussion about whether public schools should have an Index of banned books. i say not. although you could get into arguments about porn and stuff like that. if the library thinks certain books are inappropriate, they can choose not to stock them but they can’t stop students from reading them in school. also, banning stuff like huckleberry finn because it uses the N word is just stupid. they said that back then! get over it!
84-But if something is what it is, no matter what, then it’s nobody’s decision. It doesn’t matter what anybody thinks, it is what it is. And now I’ll use an even closer analogy. If a dying man is almost dead, can we call him dead, because he almost is? It’s close to the same with an embryo. If it’s barely alive, is it not alive?
88 — But is ‘barely alive’ the same as ‘alive’? The distinction between an embryo and, say, a newborn baby is that a baby can survive on its own. I mean, it would probably die if you left it out on the street, but if its mother goes away for a day, it’s not going to die because she isn’t there. It isn’t wholly dependent on its mother for survival; it can exist independently of her. An embryo, on the other hand, cannot survive outside of its mother’s womb. It is wholly dependent upon another being for survival, so can it really be called a life form unto itself?
BUT IT DOESN’T MATTER!!!!!!!!!! *tears hair out*
We cannot decide for the mother.
ALL WE SAY HERE IS BASED UPON OUR PERSONAL VALUES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
These are different for each person. They are part of what make us unique.
THERE IS NO RIGHT OR WRONG HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Only the woman can make decisions, based upon her own values. It’s not our place to decide.
Not me.
Not Shadowkat.
Not bluemorpho’sghost.
Not Julieb
Not SupremeMuser2000
Not the House
Not the Senate
Not the President
Not Guy Fawkes
Not Mr. Joe
Not my stuffed penguin
Not the GAPA’s kitchen sink
Not the HPBs
Not the Muses
Not John Lennon
Not anyone.
Only hers.
uhhhh . . . your stuffed penguin? I dunno, those penguins are awfully wise sometimes . . . i’m sorry, we’re supposed to be serious here, aren’t we? so . . . i move that we ban abortion from this thread unless some new issue comes up because if it is none of our choices to make then why are we even arguing about it? except that we love to argue, but their are plenty of other perfectly good topics out there! Like whether public schools should have Indexes of banned books . . . and, um, Iraq, and, um, well, you get the point.
besides which, i do not seek to disprove that it is every woman’s choice etc. etc., because i agree fully and wholly, merely to point out the distinction between embryos and babies.
um, otzi, are you sure we aren’t secretly the same person? because it really is like looking into my brain.
Ok, if something is alive, it has life. So if something is barely alive, it barely has life, but it has life! Taking away life is murder. That embryo has a soul. It can feel. It’s heart pumps. If we took it out, and started it breathing, it could. It is a living human being from the moment it’s heart starts beating. Abortion=homicide.
My dad says that, though the mother cannot be forced to host the embryo, she must take it out intact and alive. If it can, at that point, survive on its own, then let it. Don’t brutally kill something that doesn’t need to die. So she still has a choice.
93: uhh…I’m pretty sure we aren’t the same person. Unless I have schizophrenia and no one bothered to tell me. Which would actually be pretty typical.
I agree. let’s not discuss it anymore.
Banned books seems a better topic.
I don’t think books should be “banned”. Obviously, porn is not condoned, but the library doesn’t need to include that in thier collection, do they? And what school kid is going to bring a nasty magazine to school? They would be socially flayed alive by thier peers.
Particularly public libraries.
I dislike the basis on which some book are banned. I mean, banning Harry Potter because it supposedly has “Pagan overtones” (yes, a library system did that) is not only strange (did you notice ANYTHING that had to do with ANY religion in Harry Potter?), but it is biased against people who do follow a Pagan religion, such as Wicca. And that is not cool.
I propose a “Freedom to learn” constitutional amendment, protecting our right to be informed.
Haha. i’ve told you guys about our book club, yeah? There are very few things banned in our library…meaning pretty much no porn. Actually, no porn pictures. But reading porn is fine. As is sex and other dubious activities. Like people dying their pubic hair green. Like i said…very few things banned in our library…
Banned books are so stupid. Banning a book just makes people want to read it more. Besides, if people are supposed to disagree with the book and shun it on religious terms or whatever, then they will. And if they don’t, well, that’s their personal religious problem, maybe they need to find a new religion. Or just ignore it when it bans books. (somewhat unrelated but not really-according to high tower, my fellow so-so catholic trumpeter, there’s a list of movies that you will go to hell for if you watch, and Life of Brian is on there. ach! we’re going to hell! anyway.)
We shouldn’t need a freedom to learn amendment. Freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of the press…they’re all supposed to protect what we read. my view of public libraries-they should have all the books they can buy, banned or not. they should answer all requests and buy books they know people are interested in, even if some people object to it. You don’t have to read all the books in the library if you don’t want to.
Ötzi (95),
About Harry Potter: Exactly. It’s a world with magic and without religion. That’s what bothers many religious people about it.
96~ Wait. Does that mean everyone in that movie is going to hell?
That would doom alot of eccentric British comedians.
But it would certianly make use of the phrase “Funny as hell”.
*bad pun*
I don’t think books should be banned in libraries. On the flip side, I went to a library to check out a book on Darwinism, and the first book on the shelf was called “The bible and Dinosaurs”. It is the policy of the library to never ban ANY book. So you end up with things like that.
Banning harry potter was among the stupidest things christian extremists could come up with. Pagan overtones??? And if so, christians should be the last people to ban it. Christianity was built upon pagan rites, traditions and holidays.
And a kid bringing porn to school wouldn’t be flawed, he’d be praised as a cool manly dude. And anyway, what’s so bad about porn? Why should there be a large fuss about seeing other people giving each other enjoyment when we constantly see violence on every media? Wiser men than I have said “I would rather my children watch a movie of two (or more) people making love than of two people (or more) trying to kill each other.
101-Hm…interesting point. But I think it’s mostly because children don’t necessarily have access to things that would be used to kill, while they constantly have access to their bodies. Also, we learn by imitation. If we see two people making love, and enjoying it, we (as children) will try to imitate it. True, we may try to imitate killing, as well, but, for the most part, I think that children understand that death is not a good thing, and understand that killing=death.
Or something like that…I can’t really get my thoughts out right now, but I think you know what I mean.
banning books is pretty much just an excuse various religious groups, usually funadmentalist Christians, use to gain power over society. so fight the power, people! banning books is just stupid. where does it say that you must read EVERY SINGLE BOOK that happens to be on a library’s shelves?? if you don’t like it, don’t read it! of course, libraries should represent all religious/ethnic/miscellaneous groups equally, like having the torah and the quran (sp?) along with the bible.
is the bible in the fiction or nonfiction section?
are kids ever too young to learn about social issues? if they are presented in the right light? because if, like, some little kid has two moms/dads (“Heather Has Two Mommies” — one of America’s most frequently challenged books), shouldn’t they/their friends understand somewhat why?
94- Exactly.
To all the peeps: No. I am not a twin. There is a girl at my school I went to last year who has my birthday and … my face. I love her like a sister but she is NOT my sister. She has been getting on under my name and if she doesn’t stop, so help me i will hurt her. She really needs to stop that.
P.S. This is the REAL SM2K speaking…….typing.
103: I believe the most common spelling in Qu’ran or Koran, the former being closer to the actual pronunciation.
Harry Potter has Christmas scenes. It has Christianity. Note no other religion is ever mentioned. Though in a world with magic, could religion(not spirituality, but organized religion) be seriously believed? I mean, magic would explain a lot that is religion now.
90- Hey! I said freedom of choice! Take me off the list!
Shadowkat- An embryo is a ball of cells. It has no heart. It could not breath, as it has no lungs. Think 12 cells.
In eigth grade we got a list of banned books and were supposed to choose one to read. Some of them were innapropriate, some were health-education books, and some were banned because they offended some people, eg. 1984, Heather Has Two Mommies, Harry Potter
There were a few on the list that I didn’t understand why they were banned, eg Tom Sawyer & Huckleberry Finn, etc. (although I didn’t enjoy having to read tom in 7th)
(105),
The “Q” version of the word is “Qur’an.” The “q” stands for the Arabic letter “qof,” which represents a sound like our “k” but deeper in the throat. (Our “k” sound is spelled with another letter, called kaf.) The u is not attached to the q (as it is in the English word “queen”) but is a separate vowel sound. The apostrophe stands for what’s called a glottal stop–a break in the word caused by a sort of muted click in the throat. We English speakers make the same sound between the two halves of “uh-oh”: the glottal stop falls where the hyphen is.
102: With america’s gun laws being what they are, I wouldn’t be too sure about not being able to succesfully imitate violence. And are you sure that violence is being made explicitly bad? When kids see Arnold Schwarzenegger terminate people in his movies, it’s all about the coolness of his killing. I remember when I was around 9, me and a friend would run around the house with plastic kalashnikovs and shoot each other. Then we moved on to shooting each other virtually, on Medal of Honor, but the attraction of violence remains. If you were to replace every violent scene in every movie with a pornographic one, the world would be a better place. And the FCC would arrest you. (The FCC are, along with the PETA and the christian fundamentalists, some of the biggest hypocrites on this planet)
FINE!! Be that way. You know where I live. HEE HEE HEE.
109: What??
76- do you remember the name of that guy? That story sounds farmiliar, like I might know that guy, slightly.
85- I read that quote today in English! That has nothing to do with anything, though, so never mind
95- not in my school, about kids bringing nasty mags to school, plenty of people would support it
110-That was for sm2k. She is strange. I know who she is….. HEE HEE HEE. > LOOK!!! IT’S A FISH!!! So… is anyone going to pie me?
do I have a knack for writing unappropriate posts? I’m always joking whenever i offend someone…
106 — tom sawyer and huck finn are banned because of excessive use of the word “nigger”. omg they said that back then, get over it!
bye. no rants today.
Borat, anyone?
Borat is amazing. He’s funny as hell. And before people start complaining about his anti-semitism, the actor’s jewish.
114. What’s the deal with political correctness in general? Stepping carefully around words like “nigger” will not solve the problem of discrimination. “Nigger” only has the connotations it has because people (many in the past, and many still today) have negative associations with the “niggers.”
Banning books: anyone who bans a book has something to be ashamed of. If the fundamentalist Christians are so sure that they are right and that the truth of their religion is so self evident, then why do they hide other ideas?
116- Agree. Completely.
(113 FrigidSymphony) Hehe…. It’s just hard to detect your rather, admit it, very, brutal humor. Plus, we’re used Americans dissing Americans. We get a bit more defensive when other people critisize us, though we complain about the same things ourselves.. It’s kind of like the difference between you complaining about your family to you friends and your friends telling you that your family sucks (I’m assuming here that you like your family at least a little bit)
I hope that made sense….
It’s weird, I get the feeling that I come off less liberal on the blog than I am in real life.
I was going to see Borat tonight but I didn’t get to. i saw him on the Daily Show though. Freaking fantastic.
Theres a very very very conservative, Republican, Christian kid in my spanish class. He tells me that I am brainwashed my the liberal media and that there is a very real imminent (or is it emminent?) terrorist threat and that the Patriot Act is necessary to protect us from Islamofacism. What do I do? I mean, I argue with him (in spanish, too, which is hard), but I can’t help feeling that it’s pointless and that I should just ignore him, even when he says really horrible stuff. Or is it more important to voice my beliefs? Is it always worth it in every situation?
Advice, oh wise Musers and GAPAs?
119: Usually, when people are like that, they refuse to believe anything other than their own firm convictions. It’s like trying to convince a baptist that God doesn’t hate homosexuals. You can voice your beliefs, in fact you should, but be prepared to feel incredibly frustrated when it shmashes against the conservative wall of idiocy, blindness and incompetence.
I so want to see Borat. It’s supposed to be hilarious. And the whole anti-semitism things, like i’ve said the majority of my friends are jewish and the ones that have seen it loved it.
Is it just me or do people tend to get angrier about something like that when they’re not involved? I mean, i think everybody loves a bit of poking fun at themselves. It seems like the people who get upset are never the ones insulted in the first place. Or maybe i’m wrong, but that’s what it seems like to me.
Hey guys, bill brought up an interesting topic at waffle house last night-prostitution? should it be legal or not? Sarah said no, it was wrong, but i agreed with bill for the most part-it’s people’s choice and you can’t base outlawing something on morals unless it hurts somebody else, and also there would probably be better conditions if it were legal. i think. Monica brought up an interesting point too-it’s technically two consenting adults. What do you peoples think?
someone once said(mybe it was me): “someone ban all books”
if the libery aloud people to ban books the librey would be empty
119- OMG, people like that bug me so much! I usually come up with something that they can’t argue and is embarassing to Rebublicans in general, like how there weren’t WMDs or how bush’s grades in college were, like 4 D’s and an F or something like that, or that we have more WMD’s than most other countries. Don’t bother talking things out reasonably with him (unless he speaks reasonably and intelligently with good ideas, which would be a first for people I kow like that) He’s probably just repeating things he hears at home, on FOX, etc. They’ll usually just argue in circles and ask questions that sound good, but have nothing to do with the topic, and tell outright lies, especially around election day. Also, tell him that, if he thinks about it, we are worst terrorists in the midle east than the Taliban was here. Has America ever been hit with a atomic bomb from the enemy? Has any other country ever come in to occupy our country? Have sanctions ever been imposed on America? Would the kid listen to you if you had all these reasons?
anyway, I’m just getting fired up, (calm down, breate in, breath out) okay, you can probably think of all these reasons by yourself, just don’t give up, I have so much fun arguing because most Republicans in my area are stupid. Anyway, I know how it is with people like that. (while your at it, make sure he believes in evolution, unless you want to be nice)
Thanks for your advice peoples. Mostly I think I’ll just double my efforts to stay informed and use reliable sources (I like the BBC website for news) and just point those out to him occasionally. See, the thing is, he is pretty smart and has info to back himself up. And he seems to understand what real debate is. And I also believe in respecting everyone’s opinion, no matter how much you disagree. Not necessarily because I think all viewpoints are reasonable (I don’t) but it seems to me that dismissing one viewpoint as “evil” “angry” “stupid” or “wrong” never leads us any closer to agreeing on anything.
Prostitution: I don’t object to the act itself, I believe that’s more of a personal choice sort of thing. I think where I would have problems is the consequences socially. Would more people turn to it as a job, instead of working for a more reliable career? Would it lead to a horrible spread of STDs? Dangerous abortions? Unwanted children? I don’t know.
What do you guys have to say on censorship? Is there ever a place for it?
…Huh..?….This is all floating in the clouds for me. And I can’t fly, so I don’t think I’ll ever understand it. Hot topic:
Um…wait. I don’t have one. And I don’t understand what people are saying. So why am I posting here? No idea. Could someone please help me out here?
Prostitution is fine as long as it’s between consenting adults. But what about child prostitution in some third world countries? Or eastern european sex slaves? These things happen, they’re real and current.
And cencorship is wrong. People should be able to say whatever they want to, be it baptist religous bull or intelligent philosophical discussion.
He he. Very funny Doonesbury comic regarding evolution hanging in the science office popped into my head. No idea why.
If you’re going to say anything about Borat, note all the underlying messages about america that you can get from just watching clips, previews, and reading articles on it(I haven’t seen the actually movie)
1. “Borat’s” war support in the texas stadium was given loud applause
2. I heard (I don’t know if this is true or put in the movie) that when asking what kind of gun to buy to use to kill a Jew, the guy selling it gave a real answer(like a whatever-millimeter pistol or something)
3. After the movie, he gets beaten up when in charachter in new york because the man thinks he’s crazy.
4. Anti semetic song gets applause and the crowd sings the corus of “throw the Jew down the well”, anti semetic rancher agrees hunting jews is a good idea, candidate from congress said all Jews will go to hell on “Da Ali G Show”l (from wikipedia), got racist remarks from frat boys
5. People didn’t react very strongly when asked about subjects like racism/slavery, the status of women, discrimination, homosexuality, etc. , just a polite “we don’t do that in america”
6. Hardly anybody realized that he was joking when making the movie. They just assumed that Kazakhstan was so culturally different that the statements Sacha Baron Cohen made were true, even that he had never seen a toilet before
124- my brother just wrote an essay on cencorship. It was actually the beginning of a debate, he had to be pro-censorship, even though he isn’t. I said that it could be good in places like North Korea, those people have access to only very censored information, and they think that they are better off than anyone else, so they are happy(theoretically). My brother didn’t like that example, but that’s just how he is sometimes. I think censorship is okay as long as it i9s to keep the public safe. For example, books on building an atomic bomb or producing drugs or effective ways to commit suicide shouldn’t be available, but they shouldn’t have been written in the first place.
124- It’s probably a little less frustrating to argue with a smart person about that stuff. I’ve never talked to someone smart that thinks those things, but as long as they understand what they are saying and thinking, they have the right to be respected for their views.
128-i hate when you have to argue the wrong side and make stuff up like that. Unless it’s something i don’t care too much about. But something like censorship, i would fail so badly at taht assignment…
in seventh grade, we did a debate (democrat vs. republican) it was the year of the election, and I argued a lot with the stupidly Republican teacher, then he made me be on the pro-Republican side of the debate, and If we weren’t convincing, we got a bad grade, that made me sooooo mad.
Wow, i haven’t been to this thread in a while. So, banned books is the new topic, eh? Yea! We actually aren’t talking about gay marriage. I don’t think any book should ever be banned for any reason. I usually don’t have opinions as clear-cut as that, but there it is. Perhaps if the book was somehow causing people to murder others or something, it would deserve to get banned, but that seems unlikely. There are some books that seem to be banned for no reason. In some catalogue, i once saw a bracelet featuring the covers of several banned books. The picture was small and some of the titles were fuzzy, but one distinct one was Alice in Wonderland. Alice in Wonderland?! Are you serious? What could possibly be wrong with Alice in Wonderland? I mean, sure, it’s a bit… trippy. But they can’t prove anything. By the way, since when does the comment box have its own spell checker?
Alice in Wonderland was probably banned because of obvious drug symbolism. I did a censorship debate in 6th and it was probably the best speech I ever wrote. To bad I only have half of it on this computer. I totally blew the competition away with my “censership throughout the ages” thing, talking about how ben franklin was censored and religious censoring, etc. while he talked about controversial music lyrics. After the speeches, we had an unscripted debate. I got to ask the first question, so I asked him how many 6 year olds he knew listened to music with controversial lyrics. He answered that his sister did. I asked if she had parental permission. He said yes, and started to say that that wasn’t the point, that these lyrics prompt violence or something, but I interrupted with “But they still let her listen to it?” Every time he started to say something after that, I just said “But they still let her listen to it.” No further questions. I got applause and answered all of his questions easily. I wish I still had all of it. All in all, my team won the debate even though we had this kid who couldn’t write for his life (I edited his) and they had some really good writers on their side. Fabulous speech.
(131) YKM, I noticed the spell checking recently, too. On my computer it appears in Firefox 2, not in Internet Explorer 7.
Everyone on this thread agrees way too much. We’re all to smart (or brought up in a world with too strong ideals) to be pro cencorship. I want to argue with someone! Therefore, I will now take up the pro cencorship side:
Like Elizabeth said, cencorship protects people’s ignorance. Ignorance is bliss. For example, I have heard that we are all living in the matrix. I know a lot of people who are pretty happy in the matrix, despite the fact that nothing around them is real. But more seriously, cencorship protects us from outside threats such as terrorists who hate us because of some territory lost to Jews back 60 years ago and because we are imperialist pigs. It also protects us from threats from within. People are not very creative. Nobody would think of selling their soul to the devil if the idea wasn’t given to them (and glorified) by books like Harry Potter. The most unified societies consist of homogeneous populations i.e. ones with no dissenters. Every book which encourages people to cause change threatens this ideal society. If we have no concepts of situations except for the one we live in we, by default, must be satisfied. Which goes back to what I said before: ignorance is bliss.
That was fun! I would make a crummy fascist though…
You’re right: you all do agree too much. Maybe the GAPAs can stir things up a little.
This blog is censored. The administrators regularly zap posts that contain contact information, certain geographic information, and very strong or graphic language. Most MBers understand why we do it, and very few complain about it. If silence implies agreement, then I’d say that indicates that you all are pro-censorship under certain circumstances.
I think most people would agree that some information needs to be classified to make it harder for unfriendly countries to build dangerous weapons and to keep some of our country’s plans secret. Classification is censorship. Laws that protect people’s privacy from intrusion put some kinds of information off limits, too. So do laws against slander and libel. Finally, newspapers and TV news programs often censor themselves. Photographers and cameramen in Iraq, for example, see many gruesome things that are never published or broadcast, because readers and viewers wouldn’t stand for it. The same is true at scenes of airplane crashes, car wrecks, and natural disasters. (For example, there are pictures of Princess Diana trapped inside her wrecked car that have never been published.)
TV, newspapers, and magazines don’t show everything. It may not be because of government restrictions, but somebody is limiting the flow of information. Again, most people accept that. I would say that most people are pro-censorship, to some extent; they just disagree about what that extent should be.
Additionally, the rating system of movies that the US uses could be a form a censorship. If producers want to be able to appeal to a certain audience (and make a profit), then they have to make their movie/video game adhere to the standards of the rating system. This means toning down violence, language, sex, etc.
Also, think about what was in Muse this month. That thing about violent games and mirror neurons. I know so many people who’s entire free time (and much of what is not free time) is spent blasting away at virtual demons with machine guns. I mean, mirror neurons do not proove that violent video games cause real violence, but if they did, wouldn’t that be an argument for censoring some of the violence out of media?
1-*agrees with otzi* but obama cant win at least now, so he should wait, until the country is ready.
7-okay. so he’s not very nice.but not evil. noones evil. (well, exept maybe the creepy dude i Devil in the white city , but that is beside the point! therefore, no torture. life in prison.
13-yep
15-whats wrong with politics?
19-politics are meant to be logical. and, torturing a person ebcause they tortured you is illogical. well, actually its very logical, but it is stupid, and gets you nowhere. if someone punches you in the face, you explain to them why they should not have punched you in the face, not punch them in the face, and walk away.
28-god… well, yeah. god i slightly less than existant
29-nah. poets hav e midevil values. i dont
33-nah. parties are good. it’s like, checks and balances. but, i agree that there is a problem, and i think we should have more parties. with actual power. and instead of our stupid, winner takes all system, we should have the percentage of the population that voted for a party have the percentage of the seats in the government. an executive, but not very much power.much better, represents all values, so that it is not just two parties. because, how many people agree with bush on everything? and how many people voted for him?.
more to come. i have to go to bed. otherwise, i die in the morning.
Actually, you don’t really agree with me that much. I’m on your side, but I’m a total left extremist. I took a political orientation test once and placed me as a more radical dude than Gandhi.
And the rating system for video games in the us is flawed. It’s stupid to rate a game “mature”, because no one playing a computer game is ever mature.
I hereby propose a new rating system:
1) Addict
2) Junkie
3) Child in man’s body.
New hot topic: Banning SM2K’s clone from blogging. She ruins our perfect little threads that are NOT random.
Information should be censored if and only if (sound like a logic statement yet?) it could cause harm to the public. On the blog, geographic info. could cause bloggers harm. Vulgar language might not cause harm as some might think, but some people don’t want to see it. Books about killing etc. might give people bad ideas and result in a dangerous situation for the public. Some information might not harm most people, but it’s not necessary for them to see, and in the wrong hands, it could be dangerous.
I’m going to stop now because that sounds too much like a poorly organized essay.
Cheeseburgers should be made the national food!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On the ns forums, almost everyone has taken a political compass test. why doesnt everyone here take it? oh. right. its a test, to show where you are politically, froma social, economic, and other stuff perspective. cuz no links, google political compass. maybe even a thread for it? and if we had sigs, we could post out compass scores in them? anyhoo, maybe in wordpress 2, or whatever.
52-what’s wrong with adoption?
54-bill clinton, i think
77-umm, not really true. saddam-openly torturing peoples, killing peoples, mass terror as gov’t, denying right to vote, etc, etc. breaks most rules in mostun conventions. bush at least pretends not to.
85-you just offended MG!
90-ayup
97-so. his dark materials is without magic, and with religion. but somehow i think it will offend religious dudes anyway
103-the bible is in the religion section. problem solved.
108-never thought of that. but too true. i like violence though…..(not real, just movies and stuff. like john woo. and chow yun fat. yay!)
119-worth it. just think. undeniable logic might actually convince him!.
126-censorship-to quote justice holmes (sorta)not unless there is a clear and present danger. and that means this information will let people who previously could not, kill or hurt badly, significant amounts of people. for example, front page nytimes HOW TO MAKE A NUKE(detailed instructions inside). that is black highlighter for you.
117-ayup
133-me too! its useful
136-not really. with parental consent, you can see anything. (rent it)
so…i was serious about the political compass thread.
141 — no they shouldn’t. pizza should be the national food. cheeseburgers
pizza 
I just heard a funny political joke. I’m sorry if it offends anyone… don’t come screaming after me with pitchforks…
What is the dfference between the Vietnam war and the Iraq war?
In the Vietnam war, George W. had a plan for getting out.
Again, I apoligize if this offends anyone
144- That joke is really funny. In fact, if you like that joke, you should probably check out Jib-Jab. Lots of political jokes.
141. The government should not waste it’s time declaring a national food, tree, language, or any other symbol.
141- Vegetarians…. *coughmecough*
144 — :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
147 — *coughmetoocough*
146 — yes, there are scads of things they should do instead. like . . . help save the earth from global warming! and . . . well, fill in the blank.
Bush never went to Vietnam. The joke is flawed
I WIN!!!
149- That’s the point. He got out of going to Vietnam. He had a stategy to do this, so the joke is funny.
*sighs* It’s not funny if you have to explain it.
Its really sad that the world will waste its time fighting and then realize they are too late to save the world from imminent environmental destruction. Ever see The Day After Tomorrow? Great movie. They wouldn’t show it in 8th grade sci. Its like spending hours doing your hair instead of studying for a test. The hair might affect you immediatly, but in the long run, you’ll wish you’d studied, because grades can inpact your life a lot more than hair. Ok, really bad example. What I’m trying to say is, that we can focus on the terrorist threat, but when its the lives of a relatively small amount vs. extinction of the race, most people are going to say the extinction of the race wins out.
No national foods or any other time wasting agendas. The US is too diverse for those types of things, and too much nationalism prevents us from seeing the true flaws of our country, like the fact that most people have forgotten we can do things other than vote to change the government, and even voting doesn’t help that much. We need to take action, not just sit there complaining. No matter how many jokes are made, how many party lines are given, nobody ever actually does anything that will change things. We need an uprising, we need to say we will not stand for it, we need reporters who are willing to say that their question wasn’t answered.
142-I’m a Right-Libertarian!!! What are you on that compass?
148- YAY!
im a leftist lebertarian. quite extremely so.
143: Pizza is italian. Sorry, it’s already taken.
142-I’m a left liberterian, but not far from the middle. I’m not sure how accurate the test was because I didn’t understand some of the questions
So are we on banned books and censorship or the political spectrum?
I need to find a list of banned books. And then read all of them.
*quotes Voltaire, probably a bit loosely* “I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”
Economic Left/Right: -2.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.15
I’m a left-libertarian.
Or national food? I vote for cookies. Everyone likes cookies, and if it were just cookies in general, we could eat whatever cookies we wanted in the name of nationalism. Or cookies could be the GLOBAL food. And everyone could have international cookie day!
Not that I just ate a large number of cookies or anything…
147/148- *cough*andme*cough*
151- I love that movie.
We need a new topic. That large numbers of people may disagree upon.
135-the blog is censored by agreement. We’re small enough to be democratic about it, in a way. And we’re kind of elitist really, we kick out/zap posts of people who are continually giving out information like that, etc. The government can’t do that, there are too many people with too many different ideas. Censorship only works in situations like this where it’s small and people have relatively similar ideas about what should be censored.
Why do we need a national food? If we do, i vote the peanut because it’s the first food i can think of that’s actually American.
no national anythings!!!!!!! nationalism removes one’s sense of individuality and prevents one from seeing the flaws in one’s country . . . which would explain how the good ol’ USofA fell so far . . . ha! I don’t even say the pledge of allegiance in school
159-Nice.
So, really, most people are Libertarians of a sort, so far…I’ll be curious to see how everyone else turns out.
I don’t know about y’all, but I live in the United States. The US is such a huge country that parts of it are often very different. I have visited bits and pieces of it; some of them I have liked, some I have not. I don’t feel like I am particularly a part of this country which I can hardly claim to know, or even my state, because I don’t like much of it. However, I do identify with the city I live in and I feel a sense of “municipalism”-love for and loyalty to my city, even though I didn’t choose to live here. I recognize that my city has flaws, and I don’t think that I am any less an individual for my love of my city. If nationalism is wrong because it can take away part of one’s individuality, and make them choose their country over more important values, what about my “municipalism”? What about loyalty to one’s school?
Wow. That test showed me as more leftist than Gandhi.
(-6, -6) Libertarian Left.
Well, not necesarily :grin:. Maybe :smile:. Or not even that.
I’m not sure how I feel about being that much of a left-libertarian. I never thought of myself as a radical anything.
Well, to be nitpicky, it was closer to this:
Economic Left/Right: -6.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.41
Heres a topic people will disagree on:
Endangered species should be left to die out, it’s a waste of time and money to save them when nature is telling them they can’t live anymore. It’s like a kid with a certain toy, he doesn’t play with it when he does have it, but if it’s taken away, he throws a tantrum. Let the endangered species die!
What do you think?
163-Well, maybe you’re not so much a radical as you are a very strong believer in, well, your beliefs. See the difference?
i think -7, -6. for me. frigidsymphony sould take it. so far, i have the most leftist scores ive seen. (as do my parents and grandparents.)
i find it quite accurate.
165: It’s not nature telling them they can’t live anymore, it’s humans. Cars= Global Warming = drier air = Dead amphibians. Huge population in China= less space = less bamboo and habitat = less pandas. Demand for ivory and fur = market = Poachers = dead elephants and leopards. Demand for wood = market = deforestation = less habitat = declining populations of woodland animals. Proof enough? Cars = global warming= melting ice caps = drowning polar bears. Can you see the connections?
what test, where? I already took a test like that and ended up further left than gandhi. link anyone?
Oops. Rereading my post from a couple days ago, it should really be “species” not “race” . FS- try politicalcompass.org, and then click “take the test” When you get to the results page, scroll down. I definitaly did not get as um, liberal? scores as all of you. Mine were about -4,-4. Pretty liberal, but I dissagreed with a few of the more extreme views.
168 — yes, it’s all our fault . . . well, maybe not all but enough. who knows what useful stuff we are killing off?
165- I agree with Otzi.
168- Yep. Totally.
Another hot topic:
Nope. Ain’t got one.
Economic Left/Right: -7.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.54
I’m totally communistic and anarchistic. Further down the line than mandela and gandhi.
Hot Topic (sort of)
What do you think of all the standardized tests and No Child Left Behind in general?
174- I don’t know what they are.
I just took that Political Compass test. And I’m confused.
156-I have to agree. Most of the questions I understood, but some of them went whoosh over my head.
My score? I was almost right in the middle. -.88, .26. How’s that for being on the fence?
im bout between mandela and ghandi.
and NCLB is horrid. my grandmother is a teaching consultant, and she despises it. theres a book called many children left behind. good reading. what it does is makes all of the teachers focus only on the tests, and no actual teaching. and all that happens when you fail the test is retake the grade. which doesnt help, because all you do is prepare for the test some more. and you get no education at all.
1- Awesome! Except one thing… It’s impossibly inconvennient for a country to not have an official language…nice thought though.
au contraire, Darth Yoda.
If everyone learns many languages, we can get along fine. More enriched, even. Nobody can afford to lose thier language, but they can- and should- learn others as well.
On Abortion-14 year-olds? 6 kids plus+divorce? vs. Baby due in one week? Very very hard….pro-choice.
On God in the pledge-I say “one nation, with freedom of religion…” Fact-Did you know that the “under God” part was added when we where (sort of) at war with atheistic Russia (USSR?)
I suppose, but it’s like changing to metric-easier, but hard to there.
I just took the test: -2.75, -4,31 or a bit to the right of Ghandi.
180- Sort-of. I knew it was added around that time, but not specifically when/why, etc. It depresses me. But I don’t actually say the pledge. I just stand there with my hand on my heart. I gave up even mouthing it.
So, what does everyone think about Litvinenko? Whose name I hoped I spelled correctly. I am so not sure. It could be anything. Well, any of the alledged causes of death, anyway. Not anything, as in something random, like SHC.
Which, coincidentally, is a fascinating, if yet-unproven-to-happen, way to die.
Any other topics?
KILL SADDAM HUSSEIN!!! EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLL! That is 15 L’s. Saddam is a very evil freak who killed very lots of people. My mom said that they should torture him and I agreed. I am being very harsh, but he deserves it.
Quoting a guy from NS, I love the smell of irony in the morning.
Theres no place for that on this thread, Hakeka. Your welcome to stay if your going to be civil, but bolded, unsupported ideas do not make for intelligent discussion. Also, it is extremely off topic. This is not the random thread.
182- I don’t say the pledge, either, I don’t believe in what it says. Lots of people that say the pledge have never thought much about it. Little kids shouldn’t say it in school until they can understand it in their own words and know what it means. I find “with Liberty and Justice for all” slightly ironic considering Guantanamo Bay etc. Also, “Indivisable” meaning we can’t be separated, we can’t literally, but we are, with political parties.
I think the pledge is empty words, and should not be said in schools, but it should serve as a reminder of what we’re supposed to be and stand for. It should be learned and held until it applies.
AND IT SHOULD NOT SAY “UNDER GOD”. That is a blatant violation of the first amendment, respecting estabishment of religion. I was told and taught to say it in school for so long that I can recite it in my sleep. But I refuse to utter it, until the words “under god” are removed and the US can live up to it.
[GAPAs: ‘scuse me for the really, really long post. There was so much to reply to.]
Heres a topic people will disagree on:
Endangered species should be left to die out, it’s a waste of time and money to save them when nature is telling them they can’t live anymore. It’s like a kid with a certain toy, he doesn’t play with it when he does have it, but if it’s taken away, he throws a tantrum. Let the endangered species die!
What do you think?
It’s news to me. Nature never spoke to me, anyway, and told me I couldn’t live anymore. However, I have known people who have spoken to me and told me I couldn’t live anymore. They broke their promises, obviously, because I’m still alive, but that’s a different story.
My argument applies as such: Guns don’t kill people. People kill people.
—
1- Awesome! Except one thing… It’s impossibly inconvennient for a country to not have an official language…nice thought though.
And what argument do you have to support this with? Enlighten me, wise Master.
—
This blog is censored. The administrators regularly zap posts that contain contact information, certain geographic information, and very strong or graphic language. Most MBers understand why we do it, and very few complain about it. If silence implies agreement, then I’d say that indicates that you all are pro-censorship under certain circumstances.
I think most people would agree that some information needs to be classified to make it harder for unfriendly countries to build dangerous weapons and to keep some of our country’s plans secret. Classification is censorship. Laws that protect people’s privacy from intrusion put some kinds of information off limits, too. So do laws against slander and libel. Finally, newspapers and TV news programs often censor themselves. Photographers and cameramen in Iraq, for example, see many gruesome things that are never published or broadcast, because readers and viewers wouldn’t stand for it. The same is true at scenes of airplane crashes, car wrecks, and natural disasters. (For example, there are pictures of Princess Diana trapped inside her wrecked car that have never been published.)
TV, newspapers, and magazines don’t show everything. It may not be because of government restrictions, but somebody is limiting the flow of information. Again, most people accept that. I would say that most people are pro-censorship, to some extent; they just disagree about what that extent should be
Correction: I, for one, was pro-censorship.
Censorship is an old traditionalist practice that has long served its purpose. We are a free people, we living in America, and the UK, and other such nations, and censoring media and information for the sake of “protection” is a ridiculous prospect. We are entering an age of transparency. Somehow, some way, someone is going to find out how to bypass all these stupid filters and have their voices heard, or hear the voices some people don’t want them to hear. Censors defend their policies of restricting content in the name of decency and morality, in the name of defence and protection. Decency and morality my foot. If you don’t appreciate human rights, there are plenty of countries you can move to where they don’t have any. Defence and protection, against what? Words? Oh, we can’t let baby hear that word; it’ll give him a bad impression. What bad impression? It’s a word, god’s sakes. If you don’t like the word, don’t say it. But you can’t keep information from people forever.
I respect privacy rights. They have nothing to do with censorship. People may do what they want with their own information, but once it’s out in the public domain, it’s public property. Trampling on the rights of others to keep it from them is a big fat NO.
—
Like Elizabeth said, cencorship protects people’s ignorance. Ignorance is bliss. For example, I have heard that we are all living in the matrix. I know a lot of people who are pretty happy in the matrix, despite the fact that nothing around them is real. But more seriously, cencorship protects us from outside threats such as terrorists who hate us because of some territory lost to Jews back 60 years ago and because we are imperialist pigs. It also protects us from threats from within. People are not very creative. Nobody would think of selling their soul to the devil if the idea wasn’t given to them (and glorified) by books like Harry Potter. The most unified societies consist of homogeneous populations i.e. ones with no dissenters. Every book which encourages people to cause change threatens this ideal society. If we have no concepts of situations except for the one we live in we, by default, must be satisfied. Which goes back to what I said before: ignorance is bliss.
Wake up. The real world isn’t blissful.
—
On the ns forums, almost everyone has taken a political compass test. why doesnt everyone here take it? oh. right. its a test, to show where you are politically, froma social, economic, and other stuff perspective. cuz no links, google political compass. maybe even a thread for it? and if we had sigs, we could post out compass scores in them? anyhoo, maybe in wordpress 2, or whatever.
You play NS, too? :O What nation are you?
(Also, I ranked as Borderline Social Liberal. Or, on the actual political compass, one down and two left from Ghandi.)
—
Theres a very very very conservative, Republican, Christian kid in my spanish class. He tells me that I am brainwashed my the liberal media and that there is a very real imminent (or is it emminent?) terrorist threat and that the Patriot Act is necessary to protect us from Islamofacism. What do I do? I mean, I argue with him (in spanish, too, which is hard), but I can’t help feeling that it’s pointless and that I should just ignore him, even when he says really horrible stuff. Or is it more important to voice my beliefs? Is it always worth it in every situation?
Advice, oh wise Musers and GAPAs?
Tell him that the world doesn’t revolve around doctored speeches and repeated phrases. Tell him that the world isn’t as well-planned, as well thought out as he thinks it is. Finally, tell him this ever-repeated-but-rarely-understood-by-Christians-like-him phrase from his own precious Bible:
“Judge not lest you be judged.” Matthew 7:1
Even if he doesn’t get it, tell him that, and if he doesn’t it will only be a testament to his stupidity.
Meanwhile, persuade him to join an online forum, so he can’t ignore and walk away from the discussion like his idol, W.
—
102: With america’s gun laws being what they are, I wouldn’t be too sure about not being able to succesfully imitate violence. And are you sure that violence is being made explicitly bad? When kids see Arnold Schwarzenegger terminate people in his movies, it’s all about the coolness of his killing. I remember when I was around 9, me and a friend would run around the house with plastic kalashnikovs and shoot each other. Then we moved on to shooting each other virtually, on Medal of Honor, but the attraction of violence remains. If you were to replace every violent scene in every movie with a pornographic one, the world would be a better place. And the FCC would arrest you. (The FCC are, along with the PETA and the christian fundamentalists, some of the biggest hypocrites on this planet)
I’m feeling
pleasuredbetter already.—
Its really sad that the world will waste its time fighting and then realize they are too late to save the world from imminent environmental destruction. Ever see The Day After Tomorrow? Great movie. They wouldn’t show it in 8th grade sci. Its like spending hours doing your hair instead of studying for a test. The hair might affect you immediatly, but in the long run, you’ll wish you’d studied, because grades can inpact your life a lot more than hair. Ok, really bad example. What I’m trying to say is, that we can focus on the terrorist threat, but when its the lives of a relatively small amount vs. extinction of the race, most people are going to say the extinction of the race wins out.
No national foods or any other time wasting agendas. The US is too diverse for those types of things, and too much nationalism prevents us from seeing the true flaws of our country, like the fact that most people have forgotten we can do things other than vote to change the government, and even voting doesn’t help that much. We need to take action, not just sit there complaining. No matter how many jokes are made, how many party lines are given, nobody ever actually does anything that will change things. We need an uprising, we need to say we will not stand for it, we need reporters who are willing to say that their question wasn’t answered.
We need change, put simply.
The ignorant are those who put too much trust in loyalty – they hang on to the promises of a barely-existant government, promises of well-being, of welfare, of power and untold riches that such a body numbering so few cannot provide, as there is only so much that a few men can do, and even less when those men have not learned to share. Promises, loyalty, they are never absolute, especially coming from the mouths of those unwilling to pay. Neither are power or riches.
Those, then, are things that must be set aside for the betterment of society and the benefit of mankind. It is not just for America. It is for the entire world.
—
OK, now that we’re finished summarizing everything said on the last HT thread, anyone have a new topic? Lets see, goes to comcast for news…, No news. Here’s a topic, anyone feel that celebrity gossip is distracting people from the real issues and news? I mean, seriously, with all thats going wrong in the world who cares if another celebrity comes out of the closet or gets a divorce/plastic surgery? In my opinion, they’re overpaid figureheads who do nothing for society, while teachers and other productive people get sucky pension plans and get paid .006 percent a year what celebreties are paid for an autograph. What is the world coming to that we cannot see this?
There are many people who realise this; but then, they can’t be bothered to get up off their bottoms and do something about it. Those are the incapable, the ignorant.
Information comes to those who seek it.
—
Ok, if something is alive, it has life. So if something is barely alive, it barely has life, but it has life! Taking away life is murder. That embryo has a soul. It can feel. It’s heart pumps. If we took it out, and started it breathing, it could. It is a living human being from the moment it’s heart starts beating. Abortion=homicide.
My dad says that, though the mother cannot be forced to host the embryo, she must take it out intact and alive. If it can, at that point, survive on its own, then let it. Don’t brutally kill something that doesn’t need to die. So she still has a choice.
“Doesn’t need to die”? And who are you to say who dies and who doesn’t, may I ask, when you have no justification other than “it has a soul”?
Murder is murder, that much is true. Whether it is an atrocity varies depending on the situation. “Morals and values” are subjective. Let me ask you this: What factual evidence do you have to back any of these opinions?
What is a “soul”? A conscious mind? That is what embryos do not have. They are little more than balls of cells, trying to organise themselves into something that will be the precursor to a human body.
If a woman cannot be forced to host the embryo, but she must take it out alive, then she must be forced to host it. Humans are not like pandas; they do not come out as little pink balls of flesh smaller than a stick of butter only a month after they are born. Humans must stay in the uterus at least 8 months or so for it to be possible to come out alive.
Thus, you are against one of the fundamental human rights guaranteed to a person by virtue of birth: Freedom of choice. Freedom of speech, press, assembly, petition, religion, they all boil down to one basic right, that being freedom of choice. And that is where I see the fundamental flaw in the logic of the pro-life crowd: They say their views are justified by the “sanctity of human life”, but if all human lives are so sanct, why do they deny their importance by restricting them from their entitlements?
—
44- That joke is really funny. In fact, if you like that joke, you should probably check out Jib-Jab. Lots of political jokes.
*daaaa da da da da, da da da da da, da da da da da da*
Oh, it starts with sweatshop labor in a foreign factory
Then it gets packed on a vessel
And shipped over the sea
It’s loaded into trailers and it’s spread across the map
Big Box Mart is the place I go to buy all of my crap!
Oh, Big Box Mart
What do you have for me?
Our shopping carts are empty
And we’re on a shopping spree!
I come to the Big Box Mart
‘Cause I have lots of needs
And they sell crap the cheapest
With their discounts guaranteed
When I’m walking through the aisles
It’s like I’m hypnotized
With a wallet full of credit cards
I never leave deprived
Oh, Big Box Mart
Thank you for serving me
My house is filled with crap now
And it used to be empty
The next day at the factory
The news was very grim
My job was being outsourced
To the slums of East Beijing!
Management was streamlining
The company flowchart
We’ve got to make crap cheap enough
To sell to Big-Box-Mart!
Oh, Big Box Mart
What have you done to me?
We gotta start all over
At the age of fifty-three
I still go to Big Box Mart
Yes I’m there most all the time
These days you’ll likely find me
Sweeping Aisle Number Nine
My dreams of a retirement
Have gone up in a blaze
Now I’ll be scrubbing toilets
‘Till they stick me in the grave
Oh, Big Box Mart
What have you sold to me?
We used to be your customers
Now we’re your employees
Oh, Big Box Mart
My paycheck reminds me
Your everyday low prices
Have a price
They
Aren’t
Free!
184 – I am being civil. Though, apologies if that offended anyone.
My idea speaks for itself. S/he suggests torture and death for Saddam as a way of telling people like him not to torture and kill people. That is ironic, IMO.
****, I should stop putting quotes in bold. Wastes page space. Sorry, mods.
Guns might not kill people of their own will, but they certainly make it easier for some disturbed maniac (of which are abundant in the US, just look at the white house) to kill someone because the voices in his head told him to. Remember John Lennon? Martin Luther King? JFK? Bobby Kennedy, for Satan’s sake????
Hakeka- Maybe it WOULD show them not to do that because that could happen to them. All they are is a bunch of cowards hiding thier insecurities by being violent. Also, a few pieces of information: 1. I am a GIRL. 2. You are mean. 3. You are NOT civil. Bring it.
189- Tell her Fridgey! If you mind me calling you that. Also, my grandpa works at MHMR with a bunch of sycotic, schizophrenic, and depressed peeps. One person drank a gallon of laundry detergent and another was smoking crack and jumped off a second-story balcony.
BTW, what do yall think about medical marijuana?
190- Two things:
One: psychotic, not sycotic
Two: I had to do a project for the USMJ Party, and write this whole thing about legalizing marajuana:
There has been evidence that marijuana use can relieve certain types of pain caused by terminal illnesses, and that cannabis does not cause lung cancer. Also, only about 9% of users will, statistically, develop dependence … According to the USMJP official party website, “The War on Drugs causes more harm than the drugs themselves ever will.†The initial aim of this “war†was to increase the cost of illegal drugs, which, in turn, raised the value of most of these substances … War on Drugs has indeed made the US prison population the highest in the world – it reached around 2.2 million inmates in 2005. In 2004, 44.2% of the total arrests for drug abuse made in the United States were for marijuana. … majority of those arrests were only for possession … more focus could be placed upon prosecuting more violent crimes. It costs around $9 million per year to keep drug offenders in jail, and only a small percentage of them are actually powerful dealers.
That’s only one side of it. I am fairly certain that the actual pain-relieving agent could be either extracted or replaced by another sort of medicine. So there’s really no point to legalizing only medical marijuana. Either legalize all of it, or outlaw all of it. Gosh!
By the way, I am not a drug-rights sort of advocate. Nor do I know much about this particular issue. If the fumes produced by MJ would not hurt the environment or any other people, I would see no reason to outlaw it. But smoking cigarettes/cigars should be banned. Hello, lung cancer!
Any further information on this would be greatly appreciated.
I’m busy trying to fill three pages with information on the genocide in Bosnia from 1993-5. Still.
About Bosnia — you probably don’t have time for this, but Joe Sacco’s “journalistic comic” account of the war in Eastern Bosnia is harrowing and brilliant. Here’s the Amazon link:
http://www.amazon.com/Safe-Area-Gorazde-Eastern-1992-1995/dp/1560973927
191- I can’t spell. So?
187-I define a soul as the ability to live. I am not saying that the woman must make sure that the embryo can live before she takes it out of herself. I am only saying that she must take it out intact, and without hurting it. If it can live, so be it. If it can’t, same thing. There are certain drugs that can be used to eject the contents of the uterus from the body, and frankly, she could use those. All I want is for the embryos to not be deliberately murdered at abortion. Murder, as defined in The Reader’s Digest Great Encyclopedic Dictionary, is: The unlawful, malicious, and intentional killing of one human being by another. Human, as defined by the same dictionary, is: Having or showing the nature, qualities, or attributes of a man. Man, as defined by the same sictionary, is: Human beings collectively; the human race; mankind. An embryo is human, and intentional killing of a human by another is murder. Murder is a crime. Abortion is a crime. Even if I can’t support my own opinions, necessarily, I can state facts. I have stated my facts. You state yours.
I forgot one part of my argument. Abortion is murder. Put that in between the statements about abortion and murder both being crimes. That should work. Cheerio.
188. If the only goal was to warn the rest of the world, we could all we need to do is make people think that we tortured Sadaam. Which might be a good idea, now that I think of it…
My problem is that I don’t see any basic moral wrong in recreational drug use. It’s can be quite unhealthy, but so can skydiving, or couchpotatoism or or other forms of socially acceptable recreation. I would never use recreational drugs, because I value my mind and am afraid of damaging it, but if people can sentiently weigh the consequences and choose to use drugs, I don’t think I could justify stopping them. Marijuana is, supposedly, less unhealthy than tobacco, which is legal in this country, so it seems reasonable to allow it, for consistency’s sake if nothing else.
Somewhere on the last hot topics thread someone quoted Bill Clinton on abortion, and I thought that he really said it: “Abortion should be safe, legal, and rare.” The problem is that if abortion is illegal, people will get illegal, unsafe abortions and damage themselves; no government can prevent it. We can’t know about the feelings of embrios, and we have to draw a line for when a person becomes a full fledged person, no longer a little ball of molecules. If we draw the line at birth, at least we can tell when it’s been crossed. I think I read something up there about abortion being “brutal.” It’s not, and I hate hearing it called that. Although the idea of some procedures can be offputting, no form of abortion is more “brutal” than any surgery. Using a word like “brutal” with a lot of bad connotations, is a way to bypass our thoughts and get to our emotions. “Brutal” does not describe anything concrete about abortion. “Brutal” is a word of propaganda, and does not belong in a policy debate.
189 – Indeed.
190 – Then, sorry.
It might show them, but then again it probably wouldn’t. Thing is, people get by knowing the authorities probably won’t catch them for their crime among a sea of others. The same goes for world leaders – well, maybe not Jong-Il; he’s a tinpot autocrat who obviously hasn’t read up on the Cold War, but that’s a different story. Saddam was like them, and they are like them.
Marijuana – the decision to ruin one’s life is of one’s own choosing; after all, it is their life. In fact, a lot of the appeal to smoking pot and taking crack is the “bad boy appeal”; a reason why I’m opposed to drug laws. Though, drug use ought to be banned in public areas, yes.
There is no such thing as “medical marijuana”. It’s weed, and slapping on another word to make it sound more sincere doesn’t change what it is.
But that’s all beside the point. If certain chemicals in narcotics can be used to help people, go ahead.
194 – If you cannot support your own opinions, you are not making an argument. You are, as you yourself said, only stating facts.
Abortion is the killing of an embryo. However you do it, eject fluids from the uterus, etc, it’s still killing it. Whether or not such a homicide is “malicious” or not is subjective. Let’s say this is a 12-year-old girl. IMO, not performing an abortion seems more like murder to me. She could die in childbirth, and even if she didn’t, taking care of that baby would take a huge chunk out of her life. She would have no free time, hardly let alone school time. She’d have to wake up at 2:00 AM to get the baby to sleep. And mind you, this kid (girl) has her whole life ahead of her. Think about it. A whole future, ruined. Murdered, in your terms. Even if the woman in question is an adult – have you ever wondered why some people don’t have kids?
“Having or showing the nature, qualities, or attributes of a man.” An embryo is not yet a human being. It is a ball of cells inside the mother, fed by the mother, aerated by the mother. It possesses human DNA and cellular structure, but it is not a human, not in itself, not yet. It has life, yes, but it does not have a conscious mind, and that is the thing we posess that makes us human.
Also, SM2000, I’m not female. I just thought I should add that.
First of all, abortion is not always a surgical procedure. There are several forms of chemical abortion that come in a pill form and cause the embryonic cells to be expelled from the body over a course of several days.
Second of all, this is an argument which has been settled in the landmark Supreme Court case Roe vs. Wade. A landmark case sets a precedent, which is similar to law. Other landmark cases include Brown vs. Board of Education, which abolished segregation in public schools, and Loving Vs. Virginia, which established the right to interracial marriage (and can be used as a plausable argument for Gay rights). The anti-abortion movement is attempting to overturn Roe vs. Wade. As I said before, I don’t really care whether a woman has an abortion or not; I just care that she has the right to choose.
On drug use: I think people shouldn’t smoke (anything) in public. It is definitely not a healthy thing to do (lung cancer, etc.), but if you must smoke, keep it away from me, please. I’d never use drugs or alcohol, not because I’ve got a moral thing against them, but because the idea of purposely changing one’s perception of reality is really frightening to me. I don’t know why. It just seems really scary and revolting.
And a random tidbit I remember from something Pythonish:
An old lady called in to say that they should take Graham Chapman and stone him, because he was gay and that’s what it said in the bible to do. The rest of the pythons assured her that they would, hung up, and promptly took Chapman out to the nearest bar to get him stoned.:roll::grin:
Always the true leftist, I am pro-legalizing marijuana.
197-This is something my dad wrote on the subject in his essay Bring ‘Em Out Alive, and I agree with it.
There will, therefore, be a great deal of resistance to this proposal among the extremists. They will cast about for arguments, and will chiefly flog the “not human/part of the mother (just a toenail)†proposition. Until now, the subtext of the previous debate has always tended to be, “Even if it is human, it’s rights are trumped by the mother’s (and besides, it’s not human)â€. With the rights component removed, all that is left is the “not human/just a toenail†contention. (The health-of-the-mother argument has always rested on a comparison of the relative risks of abortion versus a full-term delivery. A live-baby abortion need be no more invasive or dangerous to the mother than a dead-baby abortion).
The most rudimentary analysis exposes this contention as nonsense: Once the genesis of the (genetically human) fetus is accomplished– through the agency of two other (genetically independent) individuals– its self-directed progress of development takes place whether the (genetically different) mother is present and providing the nurturing environment, or that environment is being provided by some guy in a lab coat with an incubator. What emerges from either protective environment is undeniably human. Thus the proposition that the fetus is not an individual human is absurd. Nonetheless, it will be fiercely advanced.
Now give me something at least semi-convincing to try to sway me to your side, rather than repeating the same thing over and over, which is what you’ve been doing.
That last paragraph was me.
197, 198- AHHH! I thought the name Hakeka sounded girlyish. (Nothing rude meant by that.)I forgive you.
It’s still a drug….
191- I don’t see how it helps. OH! I see! They’re to high to feel anything!
201 – Might I mention that I never said that a fetus is not human, or for that matter “inhuman”. It is human. It is not, however, a full human being, as it is only a clump of cells no matter what way you look at it. It does not have a brain. It does not have a mind. Yet. A fetuses’ progress in development is not self directed, either; it cannot feed on its own, and must be provided with nutrition and a specific type of environment in order to grow; thus, it is not an independent human being, which I have already said.
As I said, there is no such thing as a live-baby abortion. In the Oxford Dictionary, an abortion is defined as:
1. the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy, most often performed during the first 28 weeks of pregnancy; the expulsion of a fetus from the uterus by natural causes before it is able to survive independently.
Thus, your argument is invalid. Now, how about you give me something at least semi-convincing to sway me to your side, rather than putting words in my mouth.
203 – Actually, it’s Arabic. But I didn’t know that. I thought I had made up a unique name, until I Googled it. :p
204-Just keep the baby alive when you take it out! Maybe it’s not an abortion, then, but since abortion involves killing, it should be outlawed, just as any other type of killing is. And, it’s just occured to me to ask: what exactly are we arguing about?
205 – We’re arguing about abortion; I was going to say that anyway as talking about removing the baby live is a different matter. It can be done; a “test-tube baby”. But again, that is a different matter.
“Maybe it’s not an abortion, then, but since abortion involves killing, it should be outlawed, just as any other type of killing is.”
Mmm. Then in that case you’d also be outlawing eating meat, since that involves killing, too, no? And vegetables. And fruit. And mushrooms.
About the only things you could consume would be water and milk.
We kill things every day. We kill lesser beings for our benefit. It’s how things work.
Whether or not a death is malicious, however, is like I said, subjective. We have to eat; it would kill us not to. That is how we justify eating, and our very existance. Same goes here. Some people are simply not ready to handle a child, so they desire an abortion. Mind you, it is costly enough to surgically remove an embryo and nuture it in a petri dish, let alone millions of them.
Think practically.
You know what, Shadowkat? I’m glad you disagree with me. Dissent is healthy. I really don’t care about what people believe about abortion- as long as the right to it remains (as protected by the fourth amendment and cemented by Roe vs. Wade). Your beliefs are your own. Your dad’s beliefs are his own. You can’t force them on anybody else, I can’t force mine.
Besides, people, we’ve been over this debate before. Can we just agree to disagree?
207- then there’d be no hot topic to talk about, we agree on everything else
187-your UN delagate, speaking (assuming your in LOTM. i also assume your the dude tucker invited. forget what ur name is)
new york drug laws are definatly too harsh. freind of mine’s dad got arrested for dealing pot, went to jail 4 years. as a result, he barely knows his father. (he was dealing when he was a teenager, got arrested in his hate 30’s. a judge or jury has no say in it, so his circumstance is not even noted. there are minimum sentances.
abortion? i really dont know. it should definatly be the mother’s choice. NOT the parents. or the govt.
oops. looked you up, ur in a reigion all by urself! join us! land of the muse. password-[snipped. –Admin.]
i am-powerful necromancers
I believe that we have successfully pounded the abortion debate to a little bloody pulp in the shape of a fetus and it’s status as fully human, or maybe not fully human, and a mother who’s rights may or may not override those of the fetus, so it’s time for a new topic. I might live to regret this, because it usually ends up makeing me angry and frustrated, but what do y’all think of global warming?
209 – Hmm, I think I’ll keep my pride, thanks.
I might move. Depends.
Indeed. And… who’s Tucker?
211 – I think we need serious measures to end it, now. Think of the people, people.
(I’ll debate that more later. I’m sort of squeezed for time right now.)
let’s try…hmmmm….
Oh, gee….
uh……
………………
The military’s budget.
Is it more important to have a prepared military or exemplary public schools?
211- I hate the idea that our world is getting warmer. It will kill off everything and we wiil DIE!
213- Exemplamary schools.
The best way to perform abortion is by strangling the newborn with it’s umbelical cord.
213: Since the US’ schools run on the budget of one (1) f-15 fighter jet, it’s possible to have both. The government just needs to stop being such arses.
206-You’re good at arguing and making your point. For that, you have my respect. I’m not going to agree with you, and you’re not going to agree with me, though, so, at least for now, lets argue abuot something else. Frankly, as important as it is, I’m weary of this subject. Agreed?
211-Actually, I’ve heard that some scientists say that the whole “global warming” thing is just part of a regular cycle that Earth goes through. I’ve also heard that some eco-people, as I’ll call them, are now talking about “global cooling”, because now were going towards the other end of the cycle. There’s even been talk about another Ice Age, but we’re not sure about that. But, mind you, it’s just what I’ve heard. I am inclined to believe it, though.
213-Haha! I know I’m somewhat biased, here, but I’d say homeschooling is an option for everyone, and if all the children were homeschooled, that would handle a lot more budgets than just the military.
215-You are sick and twisted. Just thought I’d let you know. I think I can say with a fair amount of certainty, though, that you wouldn’t actually do that, would you?
As for me, I’d rather see the Air Force hold a bake sale to buy a bomber than a school hold a bake sale to buy textbooks. But, in my ideal world, we wouldn’t need a military. To quote Jeannette Rankin, first congresswoman in the US:
“Men are not killed because they are angry at each other. They are killed in any dispute because one of them has a gun.”
I advocate universal disarmament.
And global warming- Even if you don’t believe it, if there is even a POSSIBILITY of it being true, we should Do Something About It, and prevent it from EVER being true, even if it isn’t YET. This world is not immortal. And if Global Warming doesn’t kill us, mutated viruses like H5N1 will. And if those don’t get us, we will choke to death on our own selves. There are 300 million people in the US alone today- That’s about 100 times the population from when it was founded. In roughly 230 years, we have grown 100 times the population we originally were. Human beings multiply like rats, and we are a relatively fragile species- we need a very narrow temparature range, specialized food, and we’re pretty slow- and by about 2050 or 2100, we’re going to be pretty darn crowded. Then, some easily spread disease- like dysentery or ‘flu- will sweep through, and wipe us out like so many snowflakes in hell on a hot day. Which is why we’ve got to help curb population growth- think about the quality of life the children and granchildren of our generation will have if we overpopulate. Unwanted pregnancies cause needless pain, both for the child and the mother. We need to stop examining the feelings of one child and begin to look at the world in general. Which brings us all back to- abortion.
Sorry.
I started a train of thought on global warming, started typing, and now look what I’ve done. That’s just where it led. Rats.
216: Yes, I’m a diabolical fiend who goes around strangling babies and drinking their blood. Hey, that’s a cool song title… “Strangled babies, mother of Hades, drink the blood as wine…” Awesome. Potential there.
Universal disarmarment is a pleasant but impractical idea. Even if you could get nations and peoples to agree to it, it would be just as hard to enforce as an abortion ban.
I want to have a lot of kids, but that will increase overpopulation. Is that okay? I figure that my children will be wanted and grow up to do good for the world, but does that overbalance the fact that they will be extra mouths to feed?
Universal disarmament is dangerous. What if aliens invade?
213-good public schools
216- but some kids have only one parent and they have to work or both parents work or something like that. And if all kids were homeschooled, some wouldn’t learn as well because the parent didn’t even understand what they were trying to teach. Anyway, I think a public school is good for me at least because that’s one of the only times I’m around lots of other people my age, otherwise I’m just working at home. Social skills are important for people when they go out into the world. I know of some home schoolers do plenty of stuff with other kids and can adjust well to suddenly going to a public school for the first time, but I laso know some that can’t and therefore never make good friends, everyone laughs at them and they get depressed and do bad at school. Anyway, I do agree that something should happen to the budget, schooling our children is more important that- um, what are we doing now with the army anyway?
219-Hm. Well, at least you’re man enough to admit it.
221-I’m sure that’ll happen soon.
222-I see where you’re coming from, but, really, in that case, I think we have a lot more problems to solve…and I really have no idea.
I highly doubt aliens will invade. Why would they want to kill us, anyway? any species intelligent enough to build a spaceship with capabilities to get to earth from wherever they are- we haven’t even got a moon base yet!- will surely be intelligent enough to realize war is not the answer. And the way we’re going, nobody is going to want this planet.
220: there are enough unwanted babies. Adopt one. Or better yet, adopt LOTS. It is a gross injustice that babies are abandoned by desparate women to die in the street while those in richer countries are brought up in an environment specifically designed to help us not only survive, but succeed. We could just as easily have been in that situation ourselves.
Universal disarmament will happen when we finally realize there is no sense in war. None.
222: The Iraq war. The national debt. Heard of it? The government is spending money from taxpayers that they don’t actually have to finance an illegal war, sidetracking Medicare, Education, and relief organizations (think: Hurricane Katrina). They are mortaging our future. Our generation- yours and mine and Shadowkat’s and niugnep’s- will be the ones who have to pay it back.
221-then we hope they’re nice.
If i were the sole leader of the US, i would try as hard as i could to make the UN better. then donate all troops to them, and tons of $. Then, like all reasonable countries, i would reduce my millitary budget to around 1%, instead of 26%. obviously, then spend more on education, welfare, etc. and raise taxes. a lot. and spend on public transport, free universityies, free medical care, all that good stuff. and really good, equal public schools for all. and having all homeschool is ridiculous. it only works for middle class famililies (someone has to stay home) and school should be a social thing. i know people say that you go places and meet people, but why not just go to school with them? and it doesnt really save money, it actually cost wayyy more. people just dont have to pay taxes, which for some reason they dont like. It really is horribly expensive. all materials purchased on own+feild trips+50%of total income(one person stays home, on that person, if working, would make the same as the working person.) whereas, at a 50-60% income tax, you get same quality schools, with social lives, and many other amazing things, such as public transport(cheap, or free, nationwide), universities, and pretty much anything you could think of(that makes sense to be government run–that is, things that have no need for compitition), but very good quality, and available to everyone.
220-personally, i dont think so. why are you so special? to me, right now, why overpopulate the world, when you can get just as much joy, and help the world, by adopting?
if you have kids–as many more middle class, hopefully helping the world(allthough kind of unlikely) american, consuming people.
if you adopt–as many more children, from third world countries have a better life. the population does not go up.
i know many people who are adopted, and their parents love them just as much as mine do me.
218-i happen to agree, but dont you feel thats a bit pessimistic?
212-not telling. i can tell you, however, that he moved to japan. ill telegram you.
I hope no one took my comment on aliens seriously…
There are two things that matter in public education, as far as I have experienced. One is a feeling of friendship mutual identity among the students. This one can do nothing, as far as I know, to foster. It just depends on the students. The other is teachers. The teachers in the country are terrible, in general. Teaching is considered an easy major in college, so a lot of stupid and lazy people go in for it. Teachers are payed to little to attract many smart, ambitious people to the profession. In my three and a half years of public schooling I have had as many really good teachers as I can count on the fingers of one hand. School districts often spend a lot of money on buildings and athletics, but that doesn’t affect the quality of a school. Now that I go to a high school made of ten year old plastic, with a football team that made it to the state semifinals, I miss my 80 year old Jr. High with clocks that don’t work and a football team which hasn’t won in anybody’s memory.
226- No, but your strangling babies comment was a little jarring. To say something like that callously, even as a joke, is just sick. Your not liberal. Your just brainwashed in a different way. What you say reminds me of the way the born again christian girl in my gym class was commending the amish town who was able to “forgive” the man who murdered all the little girls. Anyone who cares that little for human life is not liberal nor are they close to god. They are inhuman, emotionless, and have no sense of empathy. How can you say something like that? How?
We have got to get over the abortion issue. Since just about the only person supporting it on this thread Shadowkat, who also happens to have views pushed on her by her father, I believe we must explain something to her that she obviously does not seem to understand. It cannot survive on its own, no matter what kind of incubator you put it in. No heart, no brain, fingers, toes. By the time it devolopes these things, abortion is illegal. That is why. Please stop living under the delusion that an abortion is a c-section where they murder the baby afterwords. This is not true.
Weapons- Listen to the beauty queens. Strive for world peace. However impossible.
War/military budget- Its not that we are spending all our money on the war. We aren’t. We already spent all our money on the war and are now spending nonexistant money. I feel bad for those poor soldiers withought adequete protection. However, we simply have no money. Luckily, past leaders have set up a pretty good educational system. We do need more money for welfare, etc, but I don’t think that should be our main priority. Our main priority should be getting the hell out of Iraq and getting the rest of the world to stop thinking we are horrible idiots. Obvioulsy, FS has already shown us that at leas one person in switzerland thinks that we all are even though he’s heard plenty of testimony from those of us who aren’t, and polls show pretty much the same reaction all over the rest of the world.
As I said before, Global Warming will kill us all. And if it is “just a phase” it will still kill us. And the ozone layer dissapearing to be replaced by smog certainly isn’t going to help. Don’t comfort yourselves, thinking that it will take a long time. It won’t. It will happen in our lifetimes.
Adoption- Well, maybe adopting african orphans will become a hollywood fad. Who knows?
227- yeah, my middle school was really good but our sports teams never won anything and now in highschool our school has some of the lowest grades in the state and most of the teachers are terribly boring or have very little to work with (ie. so far in art this year we have used crayons and watercolor once and the ag. department stopped making big show boxes because the school can’t afford the higher price if plywood) and last year they put in a $3 million football field and they have passed another budget to increase the sports department too. Th elementary school already has 5 gyms and the middle and high schools have one each. Is it just me or is there something wrong with my school?
228: Life is shallow. There is no deeper meaning, no greater purpose or sense. I am liberal, I’m not brainwashed. The purpose of my comment was to provoke outrage (as it has done) in order to show that clean, medical abortion pales in comparison. You’re so sensitive it makes me sick. Laugh, dammit! Religion is a hoax. Abortion is necessary. Not being critical enough just for the sake of sounding rational and moderate is moronic.
228, 230
Please don’t start making personal attacks. We are all products or our times, the places we live, and our families and friends, so if any of us here has been brainwashed, we all have. To prevent ourselves from becoming outcasts and having to live all alone in tiny cabins in the woods and becoming legendary and frightening to the children in the neighborhood, we have to take what people say less seriously, and to know that others aren’t going to tiptoe around our feelings. The flip side of that is that we have to remember that other people are out there taking what we say much more seriously than we intended and that they will hate us forever if we offend them. I’m sorry if that sounded preachy; I just want everyone on the HT thread, and MB in general, to remain friends.
Fridgey, that was kind of sick. I get your point though. If people are going to give themselves an abortion anyway, better just one die than both through infection or whatevs.
Eww. I’m starting to think I won’t visit this thread any more.
22-In some cases, that’s what they do…all I want is for the only abortion allowed to be had is one in which nothing is harmed. Now, I know that taking a baby out of it’s mother prematurely is harming it, but aside from that, no other harm is necessary. Apparently, everyone on this blog, since they’re so “pro-choice”, is automaticly assuming that I’m “pro-life”. But, really, I’m not, in the sense that everyone seems to be thinking I am. I think that I (or my dad, but I agree with him…not because he’s my dad, necessarily, but because what he says makes sense…don’t think I’ve been brain-washed, or anything like that…trust me, I disagree with my parents on alot of things…I have my own views, based on what I think…I’ve heard both sides of this argument, or, at least, I’m pretty sure I have, and I think I’m able to make my own evaluation based on what I’ve heard) have found a middle ground, that most people can agree with. I’m not saying that the mother has to host the baby, but I’m also not saying she should kill it. Please, at least consider ans think about what I’m saying.
230-But you didn’t have to say such a horrible thing. And don’t get all stubborn on me like you always do to everyone. You have to admit that was a bit extreme. Please don’t be sick. We’re not sensitive, we’re civil. I always thought well of Switzerlanders, but you’re not propping them up very well. And you can tell me not to stereotype, but, you know, you brought it on yourself.
231-I agree.
230- “not being critical enough just for the sake of sounding rational”…
So you’re saying your hyper-critical views aren’t rational?
Well, heres a new topic. What makes us human. Is it empathy? The ability to feel the emotions of others, which has already been shown in some premature studies done in monkeys? Or is it our awareness, the ability to be philosophical about our existance and to create new ideas and concepts, build structures and research why? Or something else entirely? What do you think?
Um. I think we”re human because we have defined ourselves as such. And we wear clothes. And pollute. Alot. Actually, there isn’t that much of a difference between us and monkeys. Which is why I believe in Darwinism. That’ll cause some arguements.
I really ought to be doing my Spanish Homework.
235: No, not being overly critical when necessary, not all the time. The current situation is like in the 1940s. People refused to believe what was happening to jews and gypsies in Europe and Hitler was not at all criticized enough. Lets not make that mistake again.
230: In what way was it sick? Everyone in class laughed (including our communist-atheist-awesome teacher) when I offered it as the best way of abortion. Other candidates were ‘turned on a spit and given to africans’, ‘sent to China’ and ‘hand it over to a paedophile priest’. All in all, we had fun.
Ok, I’m really angry here. Our generation (not including most MB’ers) has no idea whats going on in the war. Ask them about current events they’ll stare cluelessly, but asked about Britney Spears’ divorce and they’ll go on and on with all the details. Half the class sleeps through history, and some were so unsure of what the message the teacher was trying to convey was they actually raised their hands to the question of whether the government should have the ability to suspend rights during war. The correct answer is obviously NO, but they say that if the government feels they’ll get more suport that way, free speach can go out the window. Oh, and privacy and all those other horrible things. They are so ignorant they support censorship, preffering to watch the news talk about Tom&Katies wedding rather than the fact people are dying in Iraq, and Sudan, Afganistan, and probably tons of other places. I was so outraged when my sister was watching “the soup” yesterday, a celebrity gossip show, and I overheard the host say “Have you checked your russian spies for polonium lately? Go check the news.” She had no idea what he was talking about. My history teacher actually pulled me aside today to tell me that I have to give other people a chance to talk, because I was taking up to much class time by arguing with almost every person in the class who wasn’t totally asleep. Maryland is a blue state for gods sake, and we have kids that are saying that protesting is useless and the government should just do “like whatever.” Urrgh. A few more brainwashed generations and the government will have total control. Watch, we’ll be the new North Korea, total government control of all media and basically everything else.
239: too, too true. Which is why we must learn all we can, so that society will at least have some people who care about more than what JLo is wearing today.
We can’t afford to all fall into that trap. The world is too much of a mess already, and we have to be able to take over from(and clean up after) our parents’ generation.
239-i agree, ouch. My old skool was like that. But then, it was a middle skool. Even so, it’s surprising how many people here actually know what’s going on. There’s definitely a majority here of people who know and care. It’s a very nice change. Unless you somehow get into a debate with aaron adams. erg.
240- whos JLO?
242- This uber ugly spanish singer dating Marc anthony who is uglier.
THANK YOU! Now you know how I feel about the entire US. And if most of the kids in a blue state school are like that, then you must admit: The facts are clear, an overwhelming majority of americans are total morons. And far inferior to the wonderful, ethnically correct, racially superior aryan northern europeans.
Ok, now that hot topics has officially moved off the main page, and since we’ve gotten a new one on the 5th for the last two months, I think we need a new thread.
244- Try to live with them. BTW, ethically correct? YOU? I guess in your opinion, you are. But its very unlikely you’d find a lot of people to agree with you. And don’t start with “racially superior”. We’ve gotten over those things in America. And most of us are probably of some northern european descent. I know I’ve got ancestors from at least 5 different european countries.
244- you’re right, many Americans are morons, but not all, so you can’t say Americans in general are morons, or most Americans, just some. Anyway, most Americans are Aryan northern European (many, at least) and are still stupid and you can’t be implying that everyone in Switzerland is smart because that can’t be true. Anyway, it’s not your ethnicity that determines how you act, it’s your surroundings and up- bringing. I have noticed that most African-Americans where I live are stupid, obnoxious, etc, but thats because of their families, I know of others that are a lot like me, went to a Catholic school, work hard, speak good English and some that work harder that I ever could on their farm. So, we probably agree that the way everyone rants about being prejudice and racist is extremely annoying and makes you want to say something completely radical like “all of these type of people are____” but you still can’t sum up an entire group especially if you haven’t met most of them. There is nothing wrong with saying “everyone I’ve met” or something like that, JUST DON’T SAY “ALL AMERICANS”!!!!!!!!!!
244- You’re an ass. I say that with no regrets. You are the most prejudice person I have never met. Americans are not morons. At least not ALL of us. YOU’RE a moron. [We had to remove three sentences here. Suffice it to say that SM2000 is extremely annoyed. –Admin.]
GAPAs, sorry to say all that, but HE MADE ME MAD! You can moderate that if you want to.
Yes, GAPAs, VERY annoyed. I’m somewhat better now. He just shouldn’t be making judgements about stuff that he knows nothing about.
244 (FS)- Please say you’re kidding. ‘Wonderful, ethnically correct, racially superior aryan northern europeans?’ I hope you realize just how much like Hitler you sound.
“Here, too, there can be no compromise – there are only two possibilities: either victory of the Aryan or annihilation of the Aryan and the victory of the Jew.” -Adolf Hitler
Substitute ‘American’ in for ‘Jew’ and you have something frighteningly close to FS’s post.
If you’re joking, it’s not funny. And if you’re serious, it’s scary.
gapas wean you contiue this therd plese have it be hot topics 2007.1
249- And that’s why I got so mad at him. He’s a Hitler-like freak. If you read #247, I got VERY mad. And his post about strangling babies? He can’t seem to joke without making it disgusting, rude, or racist.
Um, may I suggest that FS was joking when he used the phrase “wonderful, ethnically correct, racially superior aryan northern europeans.” I think we’ve been through this before.
What is with the whole Litvinienko poisoning thing? I don’t get it. Why would the Russians wait all these years to assasinate him? It’s only reflecting badly on them now. My best theory is that it was planned by soneone else trying to draw attention to something, possibly the usefullness of polonium as a poison. Or maybe Litvinienko overheard a conversation and knows a little to much about a certain mafia leader’s plan to buy radioactive waste on the black market.
K guys let’s ease off Fridgey, he was obviously joking. And if you thought that was offensive, be glad you don’t know weckstein. I agree with 246 though…please don’t generalize people…
252-haven’t heard of that…
252- I don’t get it either.
NEW ISSSUE: What do you guys think about the Supreme Court case PICS vs. Seattle? It’s all over the national media. A white woman is challenging the system that ensures schools maintain a certain quota of diversity by only allowing X number of students of a certain race to go to one school. The woman was told “I’m sorry, we can’t accept any more white students.”
I’m not sure what to think about it. It has logical arguments for both sides. *thinks seriously*
[Paraphrased: is irritated by certain MBers’ failure to understand his sense of humor. –Admin.] … wasn’t it obvious I was joking? I’ve stated many times that I’m an extreme liberal, I’m also half american and am often in the states, I know americans and I do have a certain amount of authority to make statements lime that!
[finale snipped]
Ugh. As expressed in email, said persons wished for full force of anger to be expressed. Suffice to say that I’m really mad.
255-that’s stupid. that’s equality but not fairness. if they want to be really “color blind” they shouldn’t make rules like that. it really only perpetuates racism by keeping it in people’s minds.
Fridgey, calm down. we feel the angerness. you have to remember that people live in different places, know different people, have different backgrounds, and are used (or unused) to certain jokes.
255. That’s very similar to affirmative action, which was recently upheald by the supreme court (I think). The idea is to get blacks integrated into the higher education system. It’s supposed to make up for the disadvantages that they have. I see the argument for it, but I think that it won’t solve anything. Blacks are integrating and will integrate themselves on their own; they don’t need our help. We talk about “diversity” a lot. When we mean diversity of skin colors we have only touched the most shallow meaning of the word. We are not defined by our skin color, as the people who support affirmative action tell us over and over again.
You shouldn’t even have to talk about diversity at all. Just the fact that there’s an open effort to integrate a different colored race of human beings is… well, very racist. IMO.
252- I saw that in Newsweek, I didn’t read much of it, just the captions of the pictures and the first paragraph or so like usual, but I got the idea, and I don’t know
Frigey-Why are you so blatantly irreverent, so purely cruel, so much of a [Snip. Shadowkat is very mad.]?! It’s not very nice, especially because, though some of us may be used to hearing such rot from a bloody prat like you, we don’t necessarily like it. So stop being such a jerk or get off the blog. Quite a few MuseBloggers are middle school age, and I’m sure they don’t appreciate this. That’s all I have to say to you for now. Take it to heart.
OK, I missed out on a lot but I was just reading through this thread and would like to say a few things on behalf of FS, if he doesn’t mind.
He was CEARLY joking when he made all those nasty-ish comments. The ones about strangling babies and ethically superior aryans. I mean, they were really unpleasant, and, yes, it’s hard to detect the sarcasm, but here’s some advice that may stop the extreme anger that all this provoked:
If a post seems to outrageously horrible to believe, then it probably is sarcastic! We’re all Musers here. I’m pretty sure none of us are homicidal or racsist. So try and see the double meanings in these posts. FS is just trying to use sarcasm to make a point. He’s not actually an evil, hateful bigot.
And to FS: try and understand that a) sarcasm actually is very hard to detect in a blog situation (it may seem obvious to you but we can’t see inside your head to know what you really wanted to say)
b) Most people here are American. Most people here are aware of the fact that Americans are highly unpopular in the world today. We get a lot of criticiscm (and rightly so!). But it does leave a sensitive spot. How would you feel if you had to carry the reputation of a stupid, uninformed, greedy, war-infatuated American everywhere you went, even if that’s not who you are? That’s why people get so pissed when you make nasty comments about Americans. It’s bad enough having to carry this reputation without having the rest of the world’s opinion rubbed in our faces., without having to be reminded how bad we must look to the rest of the world. (and yes I acknowledge that you are half American but you still live in Switzerland, which makes you more Swiss, so you don’t get labled as American like the rest of us).
In my opinion putting the word “wonderful’ together with ‘racially superior aryan’ was a dead giveaway.
264-Well, you haven’t exactly shown yourself to be a very compassionate person, so who knows?
FS, please don’t go. The blog is not meant to be a place where everyone agrees, or where we have to pretend that everyone does. If we take out all dissenting opinions the blog will be really boring. Even if other people take offense at your posts, I think they are funny.
New topic: Yesterday some crazy democratic representative who lost her seat in the democratic primary this fall has introduced a bill to impeach president Bush. I’m pretty mad. I read the comments she wanted to make about it, and she made no specific charges. She used terms like “betrayal of trust” which mean very little and ar characteristic of propaganda. She is making the US government look like a bunch of squabling children (not that it’s not), and the democratic party look like power crazy, attention seeking children (not that they’re not). Needless to say, Pelosi says that the bill won’t even be considered.
Um, I would ask for a new Hot Topics thread, but I don’t want it if it is going to end up like this one. I want a Hot Topics with more world politics and less blog politics.
There’s rather a wide line between not being compassionate and being a nazi, don’t you think?
Who’s being a nazi? Ok people, that’s enough. Now that we’re all sufficiently flared up, let’s put that fire to topics not people K?
It’s a bit late to impeach bush…
268: I meant that seeing my post as a nazi comment just because I’m not that compassionate is moronic.
Ah. Well that makes sense. But you could use a nicer word than moronic. Sorry if this feels like elementary skool (which sometimes it does, i admit) but we do get younger people on here a lot.
Ok, we need a new thread to clear up all this junk. Obviously FS has a warped sense of humor and he sees that we dissagree with him, so lets stop. I applaud those who tried to introduce new topics. And FS, in the future, you might want to look at how many wars are started and continued on beliefs that a certain group are less than human. Commpassion and empathy keep peace. Remember that. It’s hard to hurt humans, easy to hurt the enemy.
Do you still believe that I actually consider certain humans inferior to others????? No! Absolutely not! It was a joke saying that Europe isn’t so damn good either. You’re being really immature.
*reads through thread*
Wow. ahahahahahahahahaha. We sound very funny. The GAPAs are going *Snippity snip SNIP!* continously. HAHAHHAHA.
We sound like politicians.
266- it’s too bad people like that are doing things like that. It is a good idea to impeach Bush (it always has been) but it won’t get done that way and it is making Democrats look bad. Do you think Bush should still be impeached or should we let him finish his term and put all effort into electing a good president next term? And do you think there might be a new and terrible coincidental terrorist attack befor the ’08 elections? it seems possible, as something that the republican party can use to scare people into thinking they need to be elected to protect the country sufficiently. It’s all very scary what happens in the world for various reasons that we will never know.
And by the way, I think it’s really cool that a woman is the leader of the House this year, and I think Pelosi is doing well.
274: Conspiracy? hmmm. I’m not sure they would risk that- there’s the unjust arrest of Jose Padilla, Rummy’s resignation, the Iraq civil war, ANWR &c,&c… I think that someone would be bound to leak the truth somehow. But it is really frightening what fear does to people. Watching other people fearful of terrorism, etc. scares me- It makes me not so scared of an terrorist attack as I become of my own country -men and -women.
273-Oooh, burn. That was harsh Ötzi. Heh, politicians…
274. I don’t think that Bush should be impeached at all, even legitimately, because I don’t think that he could be convicted. No president has ever been convicted, and it’s as unlikely to happen in this partisan world as it ever was. The only “high crime or misdemeanor” that he may have commited was years ago with deception used to get us into the Iraq war.
Deception seems a pretty high crime/misdemeanor when it’s an entire country you’re deceiving. Especially if you’re getting the most powerful nation in the world into a war. Yeah, i’d say pretty heavy stuff.
FS- I’d like to apologise to you. I think I went too far witth the Nazism comment, but I think that Nazism is not something to joke about. Ever.
And thus dies the matter.
@Impeaching Bush- While I don’t want him to be president, I think that anybody who tries to impeach him is abusing the system. He has not committed any high crimes or misdemeanors. While he’s ineffective and I don’t agree with his decisions, he has not done anything drastically impeachable as a president. Making it out as such just makes the Democrats look desperate to get Bush out of office. It didn’t work with Clinton, and it won’t work with Bush either.
If Bush were to be tried by a war tribunal, he would be found guilty of crimes against humanity, and executed. I don’t need to go through the whole list, but most importantly he started a bloody violent war based on lies.
280 (FS)- Have we talked about the death penalty already? Even for war criminals, I don’t agree with it. I believe that an eye for an eye is never right, and that taking away someone’s basic human right to life is always a crime, no matter how many lives they have destroyed. Of course they should be punished, but punishment is not the same thing as revenge. Revenge is bloody. Revenge starts wars. Revenge is what motivates the death penalty. Lock up the war criminal without hope of release, which in my mind would be worse than death anyway, but leave them alive.
Sadly, you can’t be impeached for crimes against humanity that occurred outside the U.S., or at least I don’t think you can. And yes, that is extremely stupid.
281: I wasn’t saying I think he should be executed (I have my own opinions about that), I said he would be if he were tried in a war tribunal. He’s as bad as many a middle eastern dictator.
fortunately we have a now-democrat congress…they’ll probably screw up eventually too, but maybe not as badly as the republicans. That’s the real difference between bush and a dictator, congress. But it doesn’t help when congress just goes along with him.
death penalty? No. To quote tolkein (through the amazing gandalf) “Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them?” Let’s stop trying to bring everything and everybody under our control, because it’s not going to work. *coughcoughBUSHcoughcoughGETOUTOFTHEMIDDLEEASTALREADYcoughcough*
So i agree with Penty-chan on that one.
282 (FS)- I wasn’t saying you did. I was saying that war tribunals shouldn’t apply the death penalty either. But yeah, Bush and cronies are as bad as many dictators.
Don’t forget the cronies, everybody. Bush is not a terribly intelligent man, but people like Karl Rove are, and throgh the President they can do some terrible things. I’m not saying Bush hasn’t been responsible for a good deal of the stupidity here, but he’s had help.
I’m not saying that I agree with Bush’s excuses for going into Iraq, but if I (hypothetically) did, and if he (hypothetically) was legitimately protecting Americans from a foreign dictator with dangerous weapons, would it (hypothetically) be right to execute him for his actions in attempt to protect his people? I mean, his first obligation is to his people, not to the people of Iraq, or any other middle eastern nation.
279: Niether did Bill Clinton. OK, it might not exactly be ethical, but what he did with Monica Lewinsky was certainly not criminal. (and yes, he WAS impeached, contrary to popular belief)
As for Bush? Au contraire. Illegal War- unconstitutional. Waterboarding- torture. Also illegal. Signing the PATRIOT act: condoned blatant violations of the fourth Amendment. Geneva Conventions? International declaration of Human Rights? Our own constitution? I think it’s impeachable.
279+286- what about tapping wires to listen in on private conversations? that’s against the law.
It’s odd, the president & his cronies should be honorable, respectable, etc. and held to higher standards than us “average people that need his guidance” but they are allowed to get away with much worse things than us and those things are forgotten. (ie.- DWI charges, not really serving in the military)
Elizabeth, Otzi, Ebeth the Stalker-It seems that you and I have very similar political views. Yay. No, really, I’m happy, I just really know what else to say…I just wanted to point that out.
Alright, look, Elias (I’m using your real name for the sake of cordiality and sincerity (sp? on both…they don’t look right), assuming the GAPA’s don’t snip it…of course, since I know it, it’s obviously been publicly posted.), I want to apologize to you. I’d like to stay mad at you, but I can’t, because I understand that you were joking…you just picked the wrong subject to joke about, I guess. It’d be nice if you apologized for being a bit over-the-top, as I think you were (feel free to disagree), but I probably won’t get that, so oh, well. That’s all. I’m sorry. Are we cool?
Elias? *is confused* Whose real name is that? Apols if this should be obvious, i’m just half asleep. Oh and shadowkat-yay indeed!
Listening to phone conversations really irks me. Like i get uncomfortable when people even listen to one side of my conversation. I don’t like phones at all. I hate it when people read my emails, look at the site history, read my writing before i’m finished with it (finished being too tired to care
), look over my shoulder at ANYTHING, even if it’s just an ad or something…idk. It’s weird because i’ll shout random things in public places, or ask my friends for pads in the middle of the hallway in a normal speaking voice, or run at breakneck speed through the halls yelling “Squishie! No!” (heh, that was when megan stole my squishy octopus. Good times. She eventually slipped and ran into a wall, which gave me time to snatch it back. She was fine though), or randomly decide to sit on the floor in latin or any number of odd/crazy/unusual things in public with a crowd of people, but when it’s just one or two people i get nervous.
righto otzi.
I have never read this thread.
till today.
anger, politics, more anger.
211- AGGH. Yay for kyoto protocol, nay for bush. And shadowkat, whoa. That is an odd theory…and I sorta doubt those scientists.
238- Though it is obvious you were kidding about the whole strangling thing, hey, a little too graphic for my mind. And also, people can react differently. What one thinks is funny another may not.
Anyone read doonesbury? One of the comics talks about impeaching bush, a lecturer is telling a class “one president fools around with an intern, another starts an unnessary, bloody, violent war. Which do we impeach?” BTW, impeachment doesn’t necessarily mean the president is taken out of office, it just means he’s tried for the crimes. Bush has definitely done enough seriously illegal things to try him.
290-That’s Fridgey, as was revealed in (I think) one of the November random threads, when we started “profiles”.
Hmm… Ok, sorry for the over the top sarcasm, I forget I’m not in the company of europeans. I can assure you that anyone from here would laugh their arses off at those comments.
But I still want an apology from SupremeMuser2000 for being such an overreacting jerk.
WOULD YOU STOP FIGHTING ALREADY?!??!?! Just be nice. I’m not mad at FrigidSymphony anymore. Just lay off people.
So apologize.
GAPA advises: Move on, guys. Let it go. Temper justice with mercy. Change the channel.
Fridgey, it’s not a european/american thing. I have friends who laugh at things that would get them kicked off here *coughwecksteincough* But you have to remember, muse is an intellectual magazine, and i’m not trying to stereotype intellectual people but they do tend to be more polite and careful about offending people, to my experience anyway. And if so, they probably hang out with other people like this and therefore probably aren’t used to jokes like that. Your generalizations of europe/america have really bothered me, because it’s just not true. They’re both too big to really understand well, and i don’t think anybody is very familiar with all the parts of america and europe. So yah, just remember people are people and where they live often isn’t an issue. i like the nationalism and i wish i could be like that about america (like that’ll ever happen) but sometimes it gets a bit extreme.
292-haha, i read that one…
288- probably, and that’s good except that that means we won’t ever argue. Well, some people can agree and make it sound like they are arguing…
oh, and Ebeth, is your name Elizabeth? because it would make sence, and that would be cool, if we think the same way and have the same name… we could be clones!
FrigidSymphony, I apologize. But it’s temporary. If you start making jokes that are rude I will, do nothing. But still, don’t joke like that. I’m not a jerk. I’m just stating my opinions and everyone is entitled to one. Sorry if I offended you in any way. Okay?
Also, GAPAs, we may need a new Hot Topics thread. When you do, make it ‘v.2007.1’.
I think that the republicans and democrats should just get along with each other. This country would run a lot better with the democrats and the republicans working together.
299-Indeedydoodles, it is. Go us!
302-chappelle always says “democracy depends on the losers” it’s one of his fav quotes (if it is a quote. don’t know who from though. mebbe he just made it up. idk)
Haha, bill and i made up the Ultimate Chappellistic Sentence today. So he uses a lot of weird words and phrases (like chappellistic
) so we decided to condense some of them. Here ’tis. “The high muckymucks have ordered us to double-triple-fourple check number next of chapter whatever-we’re-on with the devil’s machine”
Then dad told a funny story about how his Astronomy teacher was like that in college (my dad took so many random classes) so he and his friend made up a baseball game out of it, like a certain phrase would be a strike, and then another phrase would be a home run, and another would be a foul, etc. So whenever he said one of these phrases, they’d get points and once they went out (by getting enough strike phrases or by getting three out phrases or whatever) it was the next person’s turn and whatever he said then, they got points. He said it actually helped them a bit because they probably wouldn’t have payed any attention otherwise
This isn’t a very hot topic. This is more history isn’t it? Oh well.
286. I would rather have a president who sleeps with his secretary that one who wages unecesary war, but I don’t know if either is a crime. “Unecesary” is a little vague.
As for the patriot act, I am actually okay with the government having the right to listen to my telephone conversations or read my emails if the records of them doing this are open, and if the privelage is not abused, and if it is really useful for them, and not just a drain of resources. I don’t think that that’s the way it is, but in principle, I know that they aren’t interested in any of my private affairs, and if they can use it to catch criminals, that’s for the good (terrorists, okay, but also organized crime bosses and such. They are more of a threat to me than middle eatern guys with hand grenades).
Yes, GAPAs, it is now time for a new HT thread. We have worked out our differences and agreed to be civil. Would that politicians could do that too.
*300 post party*