We keep coming back to this topic. In a series of threads last year, MBers discussed their own religions as well as many others. Now FrigidSymphony has requested a (so to speak) revival. Here you are.
Patience, Please
This site is under reconstruction and will look strange for a while. We regret the inconvenience.
First post?
I am an atheist.
Lol at the pun in the title.
I practice Asatru/Odinism/Norse Heathenism/whatever else you want to call it. Use runes and all that stuff, wear a Thor’s Hammer all the time…
I’d like to discuss Wicca with metalfaery, if she’s willing to speak to me despite my deep dislike for emo…
I am a follower of the Green Cow religion, practiced solely by me. We(I) believe that penguins created the earth, that they ruled it for a while, and now they are trying to take over again, if they haven’t already. Think about it.
Flying Spaghetti Monster!
Well, I heard womone mention the FSM on the last thread.
I’m Christian, but, as you might have seen, I still study the runes that FrigidSymphony keeps on bringing up. One of my best freinds is Wiccan, does Tarot and palm reading, and is pretty much the awesomest person I know.
I am…. NOTHING!!!! Yay for me! Yay for FREEDOM FROM THE INSANITY OF THE CHRISTIAN WORLD!!!!w00t!
I realize that may of offended someone, so if I did, sorry.
iamacatholiccristianandifyoucouldunderstandthatgoodforyou!
I’m a radical atheist.
2-I would never have guessed that. Really?
Im a baptised Luthern and am very traditional but presently am a southern baptist=(
me=atheist. one of my acquantinces (thats not spelled right) keeps trying to get me to read the Bible, and i keep trying to get her to read a TIME article on how billions of jabbering neurons are creating reality as we know it, and how reality could be a dream and vice versa. i think that worshipping some bloody idiot nailed up to a post (sorry if i offended anyone there) is senseless and stupid. actually, i think that roman, greek, and egyptian religion and mythology is pretty cool, even though i don’t worship it or anything. anyways, i gotta go since my sister and her boyfriend are about to commandeer the computer. bye!
I am a Jewish atheist.
I just recently converted to Christianity, but I don’t take it nearly as seriously as most of my friends do…we differ on certain points.
2-Well, nice way to start out…lol.
7-You spelled “Christian” wrong.
5/6 – Well, I’m not offended. People can have whatever views they like, even if it means not liking my religion.
7 – I understood it!
The only true religion, the one that isn’t created by nuerons or whatever, the one that has been true since the begining of time, is “Avesism”. Look up “avi” in a Latin roots dictionary to find what that means.
HERE ARE THE DETAILS:
-Based on a chain of rulers-aka “Hawk rulers”- who created and rule the planet Zemtee and the galaxy around it
-they made little space-crafts capable of patroling their galaxy.
-they explored the farthest reaches of the word they had created, except for a few places (see map I will send to GAPA’s very soon).
-The current ruler is… ME! I was just declared supreme ruler at the same time I started writing here.
I am declaring new laws to re-group my galaxy, as the previous ruler was old and didn’t keep things together.
-I am going off to make that map. See u @ll s00n! (that at isn’t a link)
I am a Christian. Also, I defend my religion very strongly, so I probably will be on here if anyone says anything REALLY bad about Christianity. Or if I lose my temper, I will be somewhere else, trying to calm down enough to even bring myself back to the MB and probably won’t be on this thread for a long long time.
To all atheists- Why don’t you believe in a religion? I mean, you could be going to hell! I don’t want to see any of my fellow musers go to hell!!! At least non-Christian/non-atheist people actually have a religion! Seriously, all you atheist peoples, don’t you feel like you have to have a purpose in life? Don’t you want to believe that you were more than just a random “SPLAT!” in the universe and are just made to live and die? Don’t you wish sometimes that you can just go to heaven? What happens after you die? Do you just vanish, with no purpose, no welcoming party in heaven to look forward to? Do you just live your life like there is a big hole in your heart? God thinks of us as his BRIDE. Not a rock, not a sheep, not just a princess, a BRIDE. Do you know how that feels, to be thought of so highly? If you don’t like, believe in God, then it’s like you’re a bad wife/husband and cheating on the person who loves you the most. The Bible is real, too. It’s not just a collection of cool stories! HISTORIANS actually found a papyrus, the Ipuwer Papyrus, that tells the stories of ALL the plagues in Egypt. The locusts, the angel of death, the water turned to blood, all of them! Also, how would you explain the Jewish feasts? It’s because the Bible is TRUE. And here’s the ironic part. There is NO such thing as atheism. No such thing! You know why? Because no matter who you are, what you grew up with, etc, when it really gets down to it, you believe something. You may believe evolution, Christianity, Norse, etc.! But you really believe in something, deep down. Also, here’s a FACT. If you were to jump out of an airplane at 10,000 FEET, the odds/chances that you would hit the ground and SURVIVE are 100 TRILLION times GREATER than the chance that evolution happened. The chances that evolution happened are like the chances that if you took a puzzle in its box, all scrambled up, opened the box, flipped it over, and dumped it on the ground, that it would be a puzzle, a complete puzzle, like done. Finished. That would practically NEVER happen. Also, evolution has a COMPLETE LACK of evidence. They haven’t even found any ancient forms like, metaphors or something, proving that we evolved from monkeys. And let me tell you, we are a whole lot smarter than monkeys. Have you ever watched a monkey? Hm? We are a whole lot smarter than monkeys. And if we did evolve from monkeys, why are there still monkeys left? Did some just say “Hey, let’s not evolve!”?
If anyone wants to argue this point further, I will be delighted to answer any questions you may have to the best of my ability. That’s all I have to say.
*metaphos
15-Wow…see, that’s the kind of Christian I’m not…sorry.
errr…. I believe in something. And, kricket, though I respect you as a fellow muser, I have to say that I disagree with your religious views and your views of Christianity. I am way more inclined to agree with MontgomeryGurl’s view on Christianity. However, I think that it was brave of you to post and defend your beliefs here. Many people here may begin to argue with you rather angrily and you posted it anyways.
As for my beliefs, I believe in some sort of power of love god like spirit that connects everyone. I believe that when you die you go and join that spirit thing. In a way, this is similar to many religions. I also have a desire to convert to Judaism, though I have not done anything towards that goal. I’m around Jewish culture quite a bit.
More words for Kricket: While I respect your beliefs, many people might find your words towards atheists to be too try to convert-y. I do too a bit.
(15),
There’s a translation of Ipuwer’s papyrus on the Web, by the way. You can read it here:
http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/texts/ipuwer.htm
11- how can you be a Jewish atheist? it’s really kind of like you’re either religious or not.
15- [snip] you obviously don’t read TIME or any other magazine that does articles on things like reality, evolution, and thing that i can use against you. what are the chances that some guy walks up to a bush, and because he just did something bad, it spontaneusly bursts into flames created by some great power. if there are gods, then how come they aren’t helping us now, when there’s war, poverty, starvation, pollution, global warming, and the world is just one big disaster!?!? answer me that! oh, and should we atheists have any reason to belive in this so-called hell if there’s no evidence that proves there is one? and-i don’t wanna be some dude’s wife! i’m a boy, dammit!! and they have found plenty of evidence that evolution happened! just google “human evolution” on the Scholorly Papers search and you will find hundred of thousand of researches done on evolution and the evidence they use to support it. also, why does everyone have to say “god”? why don’t they say “goddess”? the bible sounds pretty prejudiced, if you ask me. okay, i’m done ranting. (damn, that felt good!)
14-nice.
WAHAHAHA!
I can see that “Hot Topic” rules are going to have to apply to this thread: Handle with care, stay calm, etc.
20 -I’m a Jewish athiest also. For me, that means that culturally, ethnically, and in lifestyle I’m Jewish; religiously I’m an athiest.
Judaism: it’s not just a religion, it’s a way of life.
Man, that sounds like a gatorade commercial..
21-sorry.
i just hate it when people try to make other people believe in their religion! i got this weird comic thing trick-or-treating last year that said that “you should become christian, it’ll make you a better person, BLAHBLAHBLAH. i put through my dad’s paper shredder, put it through again, and then dropped a cement block on it. i gets MAD!! WAHHH!
about my previous post: i’m sorry for biting your head off (figurative), kricket. just please don’t do anything like that in the future.
21- didn’t they used to apply to other versions of this thread? and I think I’ll start up on my list keeper duties again and go find the most recent version of my list.
e~a’s list of mber’s religions. Please notify me about any additions or modifications you wish to see on the list.
Muslim- FantasyFan
Jewish- Copper Bigfoot, Phoenix, kiki_the_great, Jessie, Brave Sir Robin, Zylviva, Sphinx, elassë~adael, Quintessentia (?), groundhog22, Anata~ChinTsu, FairyDragon, Lizzie, Julieb
Lutheran- Queen-o-random
Catholic- Ebeth
Orthodox- Silver Dragon
Hindu- ♥ shriya siolashrwa jeffica ♥
Buddhist- 100% cotton
Mormon (LDS)- Skwerl Overlord, Veralidaine, Zyka
Quaker- Purple Panda, Zallie, Taiwan Hippo Fan Rosy-Fingered Dawn, elassë~adael
Christian- MontgomeryGurl, Ninja For Christ, Eccentric the Afterthought
Agnostic- Sweet Melpomene, Dark lord of darkness
Atheist- Queenie J, Skipper Nancy, Darth Yoda (=Travatan Oteino), Lizzie, penguini, Yup, Bobbyjkl, First Sorceress…
Wiccan- emogrl, FairyDragon
Protestant- book_addict, VanZepplin, Otzi
Unitarian-
Mixed Bag of Random Beliefs- Pentatonikk, Gwendolyn of the Eastern Seas, Otzi, Axa, elassë~adael
Druid Reconstructionist- Millie
Spiritual Athiest – The Bev, Harmony with short red hair
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM)- First sorceress…
Radical Athiest- Frigid Symphony, Queenie J
(15) Well, part of the problem is that you completely misunderstand atheism.
1. Atheism does not mean you don’t believe anything . It means you don’t believe that there’s a God, or a supernatural force of any type. I am an atheist. I believe lots of things.
2. I don’t believe there is a God. I don’t believe in Heaven or Hell. Therefore, I don’t feel bad about letting God down or being a bad wife, as you put, nor do I worry about going to Hell. Because Hell doesn’t exist.
3. Just because I don’t believe in God, doesn’t mean my heart is a black hole. It doesn’t mean I think life is pointless. Why do I need to spend my life waiting for what comes after in order for it to be meaningful? Living is the meaning of life. Living, being happy, and (most importantly to me) making life better for all living things are the most important things. I see no necessity for belief in God.
4. So what if after I die, I’m gone? That’s fine with me. I’m happy now. When I’m gone, I won’t be here anymore,and won’t have anything to worry about.
5. Check your facts on evolution. A) Evolution proposes we evolved from apes, no monkeys. There’s a very big difference. B) The reason there are still apes left is because they could survive just fine the way they were. Evolution doesn’t have a starting point or an ending point; it’s not like there’s some force driving it being like “I want these apes to become humans”. It’s just a princible of nature. When something posseses a trait that gives it an advantage, it becomes more common, and passes on it’s traits to future generations. There is not a complete lack of evidence. For one thing, Humans make evolution happen themselves. How do you think race horses got to be so fast? Because breeders only bred horses who could run fast, so that slow horses didn’t pass on their traits to offspring. Thus, over time, certain breeds of horses became altered so that they were faster. Nature does the exact same thing. If an animal has a trait that gives it an advantage, it will be more likely to survive and pass on its traits. Thus, it’s trait will become the dominant trait in the species. Thus, the species will change and evolve.
Also, there is evidence to show that we evolved from apes. The fact that the bones of our earliest ancestors very closely resemble those of apes in one. The fact that we share 98 percent of our DNA with chimps is another.
And that statistic about the unlikelyhood of evolution is bogus. Nothing in biology makes sense without evolution.
6. Lastly, just because something’s written down, doesn’t make it fact. Plato wrote about Atlantis, but it’s highly unlikely that it ever actually existed.
I don’t ridicule the beliefs of people with religion. I would ask they don’t ridicule mine.
Lizzie’s definition of Jewish atheist is exactly what I am. The Jewish part is more of a culture really than a religion to me.
15-so evolution is wrong because of a lack of evidence? and exactly how much evidence do you have for creationism?
plus, if I believed there was a god I think i would find the concept of being married to him rater disgusting. And if he’s married to like 6 billion people that is MAJOR polygamy.
Also, atheism does not mean you don’t believe in anything. It means you don’t believe in a god. Evolution is not a god, so you can believe in evolution and still be an atheist. In future please consult the dictionary before making assertions about the definitions of words which you clearly don’t understand.
Your statistics are probably somehow wrong too, bt I’m too lazy to analyze them.
3: That sounds pretty cool! Ha…
Religion…pretty much one of the only hot topics I’m willing to talk about these days…I could go on and on. I did today, actually – One of my friends asked me about my religion (Wicca), and I warned them that I would go off on a tangent, but they didn’t care…so I did. I told them about my meditations and seeing one of my past lives and…all this stuff that would make most ppl roll their eyes, but they listened, and that made me happy. Then someone asked “Why is Wicca/Paganism made out to be so bad?”
Here’s what I think: We (At least I do) live in a mostly Christian society, and most of the Christians I know (I am NOT trying to make a sweeping generalization here…I don’t really know THAT much about Christianity!) think that it’s BAD to worship more than one god. So that might be why Paganism has been given such a bad connotation. Oh, and then there’s all those freaks who do animal sacrifices and whatnot, I guess…
25- I agree with everything Skipper said. I was thinking similar things when reading kricket’s post. my own beliefs are in post 18. I’d say if you wish to label me, I’m pretty much agnostic. I’m also a bit Jewish. Not ethnicly, only sort of religiously as I’m not actually Jewish, and I’m the only one in my family who is really aware of Jewish culture.
15: I’m not going to even argue the point. In my opinion you are ingorant, brainwashed and imprisoned.
25,26,27-THANK YOU for making a good point.
24-where am i on the Radical Atheist part of your list? you consider calling jesus a bloody idiot nailed to a cross NOT radical atheist? if that isn’t, i don’t know what is.
I’m Jewish…
I guess I believe in some sort of God thing, but I’m not really sure what it is.
27 – Yeah, really. Some people are so prejudice. Ever since Harry Potter was made, there have started being crazy people who say that Wicca is something to be avoided. That’s totally untrue! And thinking that it’s bad to worship multiple gods is just crap. People can do what they want, that’s why America’s called a free country (even though that’s not always true). And I’ve learned some stuff about meditation, and it’s really…..well…..I can’t really think of a word to describe it. I believe tht peaceful is the closeest I can come, or enlightened.
25 – I agree with the meaning of life thing. If everyone makes life better for others, then most things end up working out.
24- Add me to Christain and llama_lovin_vegetarian to Wiccan. I just emailed her about coming back to MB, so she might be coming on again, if not under a different name.
15 – I believe that one reason I would like to be an athiest (if I was one) would be to avoid such extreme prejudice between religions. You seem to be pretty mad about them not having a religion, but why, exactly? The Bible is not exactly a historic account, as my Religion teacher has told me, but more of a way to give an example of God’s power. For all we know, there could be some sort of B.C. comic book out there that someone finds and decides to use as a religion. And I con’t think that anyone who isn’t Christian is going to go to Hell. They’re going to go to Vahalla, or The Sky, or whatever they’ve believed in for their entire lives, even if it means thinking that there is no afterlife. God forgives, remember?
15- Didn’t you see that news-article a while ago about the small-scale human evolution that happened in Africa…. I’ll have to find that link; I know I emailed it to some people….
25- *nods in agreement*
I’m non-denominational. Wheee. Agnostic. Whatever you want to call it. Science is my friend.
That being said, I think I’ll clarify. Honestly, I don’t believe in any sort of “higher power” or afterlife-type-deal. Can’t say I ever did. I never really saw the sense in it. However, my mother is hardcore Christian. I’ve been dragged to masses for ages. Finally convinced her a bit over a year ago that she wasn’t going to do that any more. When I was a wee lass, I kinda just went along like it was something everyone was supposed to do and thought that everyone felt the same way I did about it: That it wasn’t so believable. Heh, I used to ask my mother for hard evidence of such things. You can imagine how that turned out… Then I read a dictionary and decided that I was agnostic.
Just throwing that out there.
Question: what religion(s) are your families?
Wow… this has gotten a lot longer since I was here last. I’ll see if I can catch up.
20-
25- Just to slightly alter one of your facts, we actually evoved from a common ancestor we shared with apes, not apes. Essencially, we are brother/sister species, one group split off to form humans, the other became apes.
BTW, Happy Purim everyone! (I’m Jewish, sort of agnostic. It really is alot more cultural than most religions, just read the article about the book saving project in this month’s muse. You can definitely be culturally jewish without believing almost any of the stronger religious views. I guess I’d have to say I’m a very reform jew, but I’m making hamantaschen with my mom this afternoon.)
I’m Christian, but i don’t know what branch i am. Dads protestant, Moms catholic. It has definetly helped me see how many diffrences there can be within the same religion though.
30- *is confused* I’m not quite sure what you’re trying to be saying, but tell me what you consider yourself and I’ll put you on the list in that category.
31- I’m putting you under Jewish then. Feel free to tell me if you want me to put you under something else as well.
the updated list!
e~a’s list of mber’s religions. Please notify me about any additions or modifications you wish to see on the list.
Muslim- FantasyFan
Jewish- Copper Bigfoot, Phoenix, kiki_the_great, Jessie, Brave Sir Robin, Zylviva, Sphinx, elassë~adael, Quintessentia (?), groundhog22, Anata~ChinTsu, FairyDragon, Lizzie, Julieb, ha
Lutheran- Queen-o-random
Catholic- Ebeth
Orthodox- Silver Dragon
Hindu- ♥ shriya siolashrwa jeffica ♥
Buddhist- 100% cotton
Mormon (LDS)- Skwerl Overlord, Veralidaine, Zyka
Quaker- Purple Panda, Zallie, Taiwan Hippo Fan Rosy-Fingered Dawn
Christian- MontgomeryGurl, Ninja For Christ, Eccentric the Afterthought, Kiara, cHill
Agnostic- Sweet Melpomene, Dark lord of darkness, elassë~adael
Atheist- Queenie J, Skipper Nancy, Darth Yoda (=Travatan Oteino), Lizzie, penguini, Yup, Bobbyjkl, First Sorceress…
Wiccan- emogrl, FairyDragon, llama_loving_vegetarian
Protestant- book_addict, VanZepplin, Otzi
Unitarian-
Mixed Bag of Random Beliefs- Pentatonikk, Gwendolyn of the Eastern Seas, Otzi, Axa, elassë~adael
Druid Reconstructionist- Millie
Spiritual Athiest – The Bev, Harmony with short red hair
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM)- First sorceress…
Radical Athiest- Frigid Symphony, Queenie J
I’ve found out what happened to the few non-jewish people in snipville who actually have a religion (besides the few scattered catholics like myself…i think i know of like five, three of which don’t go to church and are more agnostic or atheist) They’re methodist.
30: Jesus was NOT a bloody idiot. He was a hippie. He was a peace lover. Unfortunately, many stupid people thought he was the son of god (Jesus had a divinity complex- his only failure) and began killing other people in his name. Whenever someone criticizes me for defending Anton LaVey’s satanism, I say: “Ok, people have been killed in the name of Satan. Now go tell me how many people have been killed in the name of god… ever hear of a little thing called the Crusades? Or the Salem WItch Trials? Or just witch burnings in general? Or the Carolingian conquests?
and btw, change me from Radical Atheist to Asatruar.
Alright, so after reading this thread, and turning it over in my mind, I want to say that I am not quite Christian, not even as much as I said I was before. I believe that everything happens for one reason or another (and I get that from my own experiences), I’m just not sure why it happens for a reason, if that makes any sense. I’ve just now decided that I’m going back to atheism, but not radical atheism, so don’t put me on that list. All my life, I’ve wavered from religion to religion, not quite sure what I want (or think I should) be. I wasn’t raised with a religion, and so have no commitments to any one (space intended). The way I look at it, why bother choosing a side? Neither one can really prove whether or not their’s is right, or not, at least not at the moment. Until someone invents a time machine (which I don’t see happening in my lifetime), there’s no sure way to tell where exactly we came from, so, instead of talking, I plan to just sit back and listen (except for now, though I might comment on something I see). Although, I, too, would be interested in hearing a bit more about Wicca…I was extremely interested in it at one time….
Wow, fridgey, i never thought i’d hear you say Jesus wasn’t a bloody idiot. You’re right. Jesus was probably the first hippie. Just because people have killed others in his name, it doesn’t mean he approves of it. Someone could kill another person in my name and i certainly wouldn’t be okay with that. People are evil. When have we ever done anything different when we disagree? How do you know Jesus wasn’t the son of God? Most of my relatives on one side probably fall into the Jewish atheist category, the others are Christians of some sort. I myself am a Christian, but refuse to associate myself with any denomination. I hate church denominations with a burning passion. The Five Iron Frenzy song “Amalgamate” pretty much sums up my opinon on this.
39: Why not consider Asatru? Go to the Asatru Alliance website at asatru.org, you can read the Havdamal and learn about it a bit, might be interested. (The Havdamal is a poem in which Odin gives advice to men).
I’m a Christian…technically. I like the general precepts of the religion…peace, harmony, love your neighnbor, etc. etc. etc., but I cant stand what centuries of history and the Ted Haggards of the world have done to it- turned it into a religion of arbitration, rigid rule, and prosyletizing. Because of this, I’ve drifted away. Plus, if congregationalists (my mom) believe that God is inside you, why is church attendance compulsory? I’m not sure of Jesus’ (Yeshua)’s divinity, but I would like to learn Hebrew and Aramaic to read the gospels the way they were originally written, just beacuse I’m curious as to what they actually say. I have a hard time believing “If you divorce you’ll go to hell” is true mentioned in the same book as “God is all forgiving”. I also hold that any path to a higher power is perfect, as long as you are sincere. Atheism included. I also believe that if there is a heaven and hell, no one goes to hell. I mean no one. Even mass murderers. But I’m just wierd.
38. Yes, tons of “inocents” end up dead because of god(s)/goddess(es), which sucks, but face it, people generally like to kill eachother, most of the killings you mentioned and many others (though maybe not the crusades) would have happened even without religion.
Still I agree that one religion (save maybe quakers, UUs) telling another its bad because people are killed in its name is pretty retarted…
I just sorta believe my own thing, which has sorta changed as I get older. I call it “Home Faithing” (like home schooling… i crack myself up!!)
43: Yes, but at least Vikings didn’t kill people because they thought Odin wanted to, they killed people because they raided, and they expanded, and they believed that Odin gave them strength. But not that Odin told them to kill people.
15: Dammit, I’ll just answer anyway.
Religion is a farce. It was man’s explanation for things he could not explain, like why the sun rose. As science developed, man had to constantly drop more and more religions. Modern christians have to constantly interpret the bible differently to adapt to modern society. Does anyone really take the Seven Deadly Sins seriously? Anton LaVey says that they were invented by the church as the ultimate method for keeping people attached to the Church. As the Sins are natural human urges, it would be impossible for someone not to sin. Therefore everyone, EVERYONE had to attach himself to the Church for salvation. Also, the so-called Sins are positive urges! Envy and greed are the prime factors that cause ambition, and without ambition, very little of significance in this world would ever be accomplished. Christians are hypocrites.
Now, I am asatruar. Yes, I know that it probably isn’t true, but it’s a further meaning and an interest and aspect to my life that I can enjoy and explore. And it’s better than christianity because it isn’t seeped in centuries of hypocrisy, lies and bloodshed.
Anton LaVey said it best: Gods are a creation of man, therefore we worship ourselves, and we ourselves are the most important being. (The Satanic Bible- don’t be frightened, you know nothing about satanism. Go look it up on wikipedia.)
Evolution: Do you honestly believe that what the worlds leading scientists say isn’t true? God just somehow made us? When? Why didn’t he make us earlier? That’s what the bible says, and oh… It was wrong! God didn’t create the universe in all it’s flaws in seven days! What gives the theory of evolution strength is the fact that more proof is being regularly discovered, while as science progresses and hypocrisy grows among christians, the bible is constantly losing credibility. I believe I once quoted passages that promoted murder and slavery… I could go dig them up again, I guess…
The point is that while your point of view is promoted by self-serving, dogmatic hypocrites, evolution is established as THE theory by the worlds most intelligent men (no, that does not mean George Bush).
Honestly, you would do good to reconsider. I mean, it’s ironic, Bush is a right-wing, born again, bible thumping christian nut, but he’s the living proof that man can evolve from monkeys.
Haha, I just wondered wether the GAPAs chuckle to themselves when they read posts… Do they imagine what reactions it’s going to get?
(42),
Hebrew and Aramaic won’t help you read the New Testament. It was written in Greek.
(46),
Our reactions vary, but I can say that many of the posts we moderate are familiar — sometimes painfully so. Of course, MuseBloggers in general are much smarter and funnier than Administrators are.
47: I find that when I post on forums with a majority of americans, I get better reactions to my humor. When I post on european forums, I’m overshadowed by the English, the Irish, the Scots and the Finns who are all a lot funnier than the Swiss.
Hey, speaking of Swiss, did anyone see that they “invaded” Litchinstien by mistake… I laughed pretty hard!!
12- I’ve been christian all my life, but, as you said, not nearly as far as some of my friends. Not to offend anyone, but I ‘m not sure if some of the radical christians really get it. It’s fine to tell people about your faith but you shouldn’t show off or anything. And just believing in Jesus and all that doesn’t ensure that you’re going to heaven like some people say.
38- When did Jesus kill? I don’t think he ever did, just people that claimed to be workin for him and all that (i.e crusades) I don’t think he would have supported any of these “religious wars”
42- that’s interesting, about heaven and hell… I don’t know if I agree, but I don’t think you have to be christian to go to heaven
okay, My oponions:
I am protestant christian. I usually go to church on sundays, I am in church youth group, etc. I’m not a christian nut. I have never preached to my friends about the greatness of god or anything. I think that, for people that believe in something, it doesn’t really matter what, and they try hard to do good things all their life, they’ll probably go to heaven. Even if they commit their life to satan and believe that satan wants them to help others, not kill (you know…, good stuff) they’ll probably go to heaven. I got this idea from C.S. Lewis’s book, The Last Battle at the end when to good side fights the evil side for the last time and the good side wins, (there were good and bad characters on each side,) so the protaginists are in heaven and they’re looking around, and the “bad” character that was on their side isn’t there, but some of the characters from the other side were “good” and they were there. So it doesn’t matter who you worship, as long as you do good things because of your faith. (I hope I didn’t repeat myself too much, and that this makes sense)
Also, about evolution. OK, so the 2 sides so far are: for it and against it, I am on…. NEITHER side. I believe that earth was created over a long time. Man has evolved and changed over the years. As the bible says, God created earth in 7 (6) days. so… what’s to say a day for a supernatural being is much longer than our day?maybe god’s “day” is, say, a million of our years long. Ever think of that? doesn’t it make sense? perhaps it wasn’t completely random, like most creationists think is the idea of evolution, but maybe earth has developed in the way scientific evidence shows and god was just helping it along a little…
and lastly, If your Christian, Jewish, Mormon, Quaker, or Muslim, you all worship the same god…
36-sorry. there was a typo in my previous post; what i meant to say was why am i not on the Radical Atheist part of your list. that’s where i’d like to be, anyways. thanks.
48-so you’re swiss. interesting.
45- yes, Bush does look like a monkey. *snickers*
38- no. i am a radical atheist and i shall not change.
33- pretty much everybody on my mom’s side are strongly catholic, even though my mom isn’t. on my dad’s side, i don’t really know. we don’t really talk about that kind of stuff when i see my relatives (on my dad’s side).
i am christian. any one seen amighty wind where the couple have thier own religion that the woman made up and they have 12ish followers. it’s called Witches In Natures Colours or WINC. its something about that colours travel on the 47th wavelength. they wear pointy hats, robes and sing really offkey(or at least not together). it’s a verry colourful religion.
49- like the time some British special forces thought they were training on Gibraltar, and invaded Spain!
Has anyone who gets the NY Times seen the article in the magazine about how people might believe in god because its hardwired into our brains that its better to be safe than sorry? Like if you see a rock, and you might think its a bear, but you never see a bear and think its a rock. humans are made to be ready to run and survive
Did that make any sense?
42: I think it’s important to be with other people of one’s same faith once in a while, but i don’t think one has to involve oneself with a church if one does not wish to. Maybe i just don’t know my own religious text well enough, but where in the Bible does it say, “If you divorce you’ll go to hell?” You have to consider that the old testament and the new testament can clash if you don’t look at the big picture.
45: i think Bush is living proof that men can’t evolve from monkeys. I mean, look at him.
I think that if most people who oppose Christianity actually read the new testament and saw how it’s supposed to be done, they might change their minds. Maybe not about Christians, but about the religion itself. I’ll be the first to admit that Christianity is probably the most hypocritically practiced religion out there.
15- Why do you believe in religion? What makes you so sure that there is a God? Why is everyone who doesn’t believe, or who believes in some other god/dess, wrong? It’s nice that you think to convert us for our own good, but why should I believe? Because God is nice? Why is there a God?
15, 41- Please don’t proselytize.
36- Please put me under any and all of the above: Mixed Bag of Random Beliefs, Agnostic, Green Cow, Atheist (but not radical). I’m not actually sure which I am. My opinions vary. I dislike when people talk about this “God” like of course he exists it’s a fact of life and everyone thinks so- that is, just assuming I agree with them when some church thing comes up in the conversation. I also dislike religion-bashing, even when I agree with the points being made. I highly doubt there’s a God but I know my belief in science is a faith too and I doubt it also, but not as much. The Green Cow religion is a way for me to point out how stupid religion is as well as giving me something to believe, even though a friend, her friend, and I basically made it up and I know it’s false.
I just like the scientific approach of atheism. I just think it’s very very very very very improbable that there is a god/gods. Does that mean I’m agnositic? But I thought agnostic was more 50-50, and I’m more 0.0000001-99.9999999 (the latter of course being that god does not exist). Correct me if I’m wrong about agnostic. Even so, I would still be atheist. e~a, I would be atheist but not radical.
55 in response to 15 and 41- Thank you for mentioning that.
Just curious: does anyone know any Baha’is?
all you athiests: If you don’t believe in God, what do you believe in? You have to believe in something, I don’t mean a supernatural being, but maybe a set of morals or something that you believe is right and wrong?
I know an atheist who invented a religion called Indifferentism, but does not follow it. He really follows independently formed beliefs about what is wrong and right, such as: do not steal; do not lie (half-truths are alright if you’re clever enough to use them); do not wrongly assault. This is, of course, not applicable to every atheist, just as the individual beliefs of those who follow the same religion are not identical. What people do or do not have to believe is entirely up to them.
57- yeah, there’s a few at my school… One had to miss this activity because it was one of their major holidays, wrote a ten-page essay instead, got a 70 on it because she “didn’t use footnotes”, which we’re not even taught to do, and when she complained the teacher told her it was her own fault for “making up religious holidays”..
58- I believe that hurting people/making them unhappy is bad. Making people happy is good. Basically everything else follows from those two rules.
36 – The religion is Islam, not Muslim, if you’re going by religion…a Muslim is someone who is Islamic, I’m pretty sure..
57 – I don’t know any Baha’is.
I think this thread should be a discussion of religion, not a bashing of other religions…
I officially consider myself Quaker, but I’m not completely Quaker…I believe in the inner light and pacifism, two of the most commonly known things about Quaker. But I also believe in ghosts and paranormal activities like ESP type stuff, and I think that’s sort of Wicca. But I don’t really know anything about Wicca, so I’m not exactly sure.
On previous religion threads, we would have a different religion per week, or something like that, and we would discuss it. I don’t remember where we left off, but we were working our way through Huston Smith’s World Religions book. Could we do that? I think we may have been on Judiasm, but I’m not sure.
BTW, Kali is my sister. she posted using my email since she doesn’t have her own.
58- i agree with Kali on that one. and, i have no reason to believe in any greater or supernatural power. the reason for this is that anything believed to be a “miracle” is always either a coincidence or something that we (the human race) haven’t discovered or don’t understand yet. for example, people used to think that a caterpillar turning into a butterfly was magic, but we now know that caterpillars undergo metamorphosis, and we know exactly how they do it. famous “magicians” in history could easily have been exposed with the right technology, knowledge, and skills. a lot of this is in Eldest, if you’ve read it (if you haven’t, it’s
highlyvery highly recommended).also, i’m vegetarian. want to know why? read Eldest. Christopher Paolini has some fantastic ideas. i can’t wait for the 3rd Inheritance book!
GAAAHHH! the danged HTML keeps screwing up my posts! dammit!
(61),
The Huston Smith project ran out of steam because not enough people were doing the reading. It seems unrealistic to assign extra “outside’ reading during the school year. But I’ll be glad to revive the World Religions threads if ever there’s enough interest.
Me ish Jewish. Reconstructionist, which is extra-reform and stuff. Personally, I think I agree with FrigidSymphony, which I don’t do very often. Jesus was a peace-loving dude who happened to have a divinity complex or whatever. Blessed are the cheesemongers, etc. etc.
Judaism’s kewl b/c it was the first monotheistic religions and stuff. Plus the Star of David makes a good ornament.
I’m Jewish but I’m not really religious. I belive things the way science explains them and thats about it. Somedays I believe in
G-d and others I don’t.
stars of david are cool!!
stars of david are awesome!
whoops didn’t mean to say that twice
58: just a comment. there are actually atheist religions like buddihsm. there is the buddha but he was a real person
I do agree, FS. (38)
39- yeah, me too. Though I was raised catholic, we were never very religious and over the years, many of which were spent going to a Jewish community center, I feel that I fit better in judaism. But I’ve never been quite sure. I just know I believe in some sort of spirit that connects us all. Metalfaery could you describe Wicca? I’m curious what it’s like. I also went to a Quaker meeting once and really liked it.
40- yeah, I’ve never liked denominations either.
45- I wouldn’t say greed and envy are completely good urges, but they aren’t completely bad either. Like everything, they should be balanced.
61- definately. I think all religions are options and that it’s interesting to learn about other’s beliefs. I think that there is no hell only joining the connecting spirit thing (which is kinda like God but not really)
I’m also interested in going to a UU service sometime.
e~a’s list of mber’s religions. Please notify me about any additions or modifications you wish to see on the list.
Muslim- FantasyFan
Jewish- Copper Bigfoot, Phoenix, kiki_the_great, Jessie, Brave Sir Robin, Zylviva, Sphinx, elassë~adael, Quintessentia (?), groundhog22, Anata~ChinTsu, FairyDragon, Lizzie, Julieb
Lutheran- Queen-o-random
Catholic- Ebeth
Orthodox- Silver Dragon
Hindu- ♥ shriya siolashrwa jeffica ♥
Buddhist- 100% cotton
Mormon (LDS)- Skwerl Overlord, Veralidaine, Zyka
Quaker- Purple Panda, Zallie, Taiwan Hippo Fan Rosy-Fingered Dawn, elassë~adael
Christian- MontgomeryGurl, Ninja For Christ, Eccentric the Afterthought, Kagcomix
Agnostic- Sweet Melpomene, Dark lord of darkness, elassë~adael, curious and questioning
Atheist- Queenie J, Skipper Nancy, Darth Yoda (=Travatan Oteino), Lizzie, penguini, Yup, Bobbyjkl, First Sorceress, Shadowkat, curious and questioning, Potato Chip
Wiccan- emogrl, FairyDragon
Protestant- book_addict, VanZepplin, Otzi
Unitarian-
Mixed Bag of Random Beliefs- Pentatonikk, Gwendolyn of the Eastern Seas, Otzi, Axa, elassë~adael, curious and questioning
Druid Reconstructionist- Millie
Spiritual Athiest – The Bev, Harmony with short red hair
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM)- First sorceress…
Radical Athiest- Shino Aburame/Gaar of the desert (are you the same person?), Queenie J
Asatruar- Frigid Symphony
Green Cow- curious and questioning
Maybe I should change which religion I am on alternate Thursdays. That would be fun. I’m just laughing at seeing my name under four somewhat-contradictory beliefs. It varies depending on my mood and current events in school and life.
58- I try to be myself foremost, which is hard enough, and to not throw scissors (again)(don’t ask) and be nice to newbs and sixth graders and not get people angry at me and try to help those who need help and not swear and follow rules and don’t lie (although I break those last two fairly often, once a day or more depending on what happens) just basic be-a-model-student-person-type-thing. My code of values that I don’t list here is a strange amalgam of christianity/catholicism and judaism and whatever seems fitting at the moment and my own ideas. And to respect and worship my deity penguins/ponder the existence of god/ponder the non-existence of “god”/pray to the rain gods for a school delay, depending on day of the week. I am a living contradiction. Aren’t we all? Rhetorical question. I hope some of the free-association I put down answers your question.
Why God doesn’t exist (in a few paragraphs)
Well, more specifically, this argument proves why a judgmental God (such as the Christian God and most others) cannot logically exist. I’ll stick to Christianity for this, but the logic can be used for other religions.
The Bible states that God has a plan for everyone. It also states that God is infinite, and that he knows everything that has happened, is happening, and will happen. Of course he does: he is God (I’m using “he†for the sake of convenience).
If God knows everything, then God knows how your life will unfold. And yet he proposes to have a plan for you. Well, logically speaking, that plan cannot be different from the life you realize. Why would God have a plan for an individual that he knew, beyond a shadow of a doubt, would not be realized? Obviously, he wouldn’t. Thus, if you go to heaven, it was God’s plan for you; if you go to hell, it was his plan too; if a fetus is aborted, well, God never had any plan for that fetus. In essence, you are determined to go to heaven or hell before you’re even born.
Some have tried to refute this by downgrading God (and contradicting their own scripture) by proposing that perhaps with free will, God does not know which choices you will make. If this is true, then God has limited knowledge. If he has limited knowledge, how can God even know that he is God? There could be a God above God, in which case he is not God at all. Furthermore, if God does not know everything, then the universe essentially exists above him. If God is not equal to or above the universe, he is an entity within it. If he is an entity within the universe, he is no different than a human being, and has no more right to be a moral authority than anyone.
Another possible refute might involve parallel universes, but this still falls short. God would still need to know how life would unfold in each of the infinite universes, and thus people would still be bound to their fate. Furthermore, the notion of parallel universes essentially shreds up the soul: an infinite number of person A would go to heaven, and an infinite number of person A would go to hell.
Think about it.
The above is taken from the “Why God Doesn’t Exist (In A Few Paragraphs)” from metalreviews.com
Maybe we could have a World Religions thread, and one or two people could do the reading then paraphrase it…that may make it easier for other people to contribute. They could just read the paraphrased version?
Would anyone want to do that?
not going to blow up, I’m not going to blow up, not going to blow up, not going to blow up, not going to blow up, not going to blow up, not going to blow up, not going to blow up…
*goes away to calm down in a little corner* *doesn’t work*
WHY DOES EVERYONE HAVE TO BEAT ME DOWN EVERYTIME I POST MY BELIEFS! DO I BEAT DOWN YOUR RELIGION? NO!!!!! AND IF I DO, I AM SORRY ‘CAUSE I DIDN’T MEAN TO! YOU GUYS ARE SO D*** MEAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT THE H*** IS WRONG WITH YOU???????????/
*goes away to cry in a little corner* *isn’t coming back*
71-yes, i’m the same person. (confusing, isn’t it?) BTW, you have Queenie J listed two times. (under Atheist and Radical Atheist.)
73-good point. i don’t want to be destined to go to The Shining Place or The Burning Place before i’m even born. i don’t even believe in those places anyways.
Undoubtedly, you have all seen the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy. if you have the DVD, look in the special features and you will find a HGTG entry about why God can’t exist. it’s hilarious.
57- what’s Baha’is?
kricket, I didn’t beat you down! *hugs*
75: for the simple fact that you are, quite without doubt, wrong. Logic is against you, science is against you, and human intelligence that has advanced despite your religions best efforts to stop it is against you. So just give up, lose your beliefs and don’t be a model of human stupidity and hypocrisy.
75- sorry. please come back. i just want to post my beliefs, (or, rather, lack of beliefs) too. not trying to destroy your self-esteem or anything. and, you can’t beat down my religion: i don’t have one.
74- would this World Religions thread be excrusciatingly (i spelled that wrong, didn’t i) boring?
73- how in the world did you find that in a mag called metalreviews?
my previous post got eliminated! AUGH!
here’s what i can remember from it:
71- actually, Shino Aburame, Gaara of the Desert, and Naruto Uzamaki are all the same person: me. (they’re also all genin from Naruto, in case u didn’t know.
pleez don’t destroy this post, GAPAs. i worked so hard on it.
57- Yes, when my mom and I were in Isreal we visited the Baha’i gardens in Haifa. One of the most beautiful places I have ever been. My mother worked with a woman who was Bahai’ and she told me that she worked in the gardens for a year.
79: It’s not a mag, it’s a metal forum where metalheads discuss on various topics. You can see the level of intelligence among metalheads… the average metalhead is far more intelligent than the other music fans.
78-Fridgey, come on, now, she’s mad enough as it is! She doesn’t need you slamming her any more than she’s already been slammed! I think she gets the point that not everybody agrees with her beliefs, but, you know what? Not everybody agrees with all of yours, either! Leave it alone, or take it to the HT thread.
And, kricket, please calm down, too…just state your beliefs, and react to whatever anyone says about them with a cool head, please.
75- did you read what was said? most of us weren’t that mean. and if someone was, you were rather mean to athiests too. oh, and do you want to be put on my list anywhere?
76- I list people twice, thrice or four times if they want to be!
75- and also, many people react negatively to what seems rather like attemps at conversion and/or attacks on athiests. When you post your beliefs, you have to realize that many people may be opposed to them and this is a place for intelligent discussion.
82: Excuse me, I can disagree with a false hypocritical religon that has caused more evil over the years than good if I want to, and I can tell someone from that religion that being so extreme is, in my and in Anton LaVey’s opinion, bad.
I used to practise Wicca…but its hard for me…I don’t really know how to word this, but I can’t really “choose” a religion. I’ve grown up knowing such a diversity of people, that its really hard for me to pick a specific belief. I know Wiccans, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, extremely conservative Christians and extremely liberal Christians, athiests, agnostics, Catholics, and people who practise Native American spirituality. I love that fact, that I’ve grown up around so many different people.
So I am an agnostic.
But I was brought up in an extremely liberal Baptist church (which is about 2% of the Baptist population — the liberals). I explored Wicca on my own for a few years. I dedicated myself, had a Book of Shadows and such. It the religion that I had the most connection with, because it was so nature-oriented. And it was so free. I really loved that…but something didn’t really work. I don’t know what.
It was interesting being exposed to so much. I remember once, when I was in kindergarten, I looked up at the sky one morning and the moon was out. I said, “Hello, Grandmother Moon,” because my dad told me all about the Native American spirituality and I had grown up with it. A kid nearby said, “You’re stupid. The moon ain’t your grandma,” or something like that. I tried to explain to him why I had said that, but he just told me I was weird and walked away.
And now, when we read stories about Native Americans in school, everyone else still thinks its incredibly bizarre. But I’ve grown up with it so much that its normal to me. My dad tells me about when he went to his friend’s Vision Quest, and there was a man who had a very special job in the process: he was to choose which rocks would be heated for steam in the sweating. He would go around the island, on the beach and in the woods and he would talk to them. He would talk to the rocks and see if they were best for the steaming.
There was also a group that my family was a part of, called Acorn, and we would have meetings and do things like that. There were about five families in it…I loved it so much. We would always start a meeting with smudging: We would take a prayer feather with burning sweetgrass on the end and cover ourselves in the smoke. I remember we also set up a “community” of sorts: there were different tasks each of us had to do, like tend to the garden, chop up vegetables for cooking, gather wood for a fire, and such. We did things like awareness games and we made pouches with dried plants inside and we made prayer feathers. It was so great. But, unfortunately…the group fell apart. I’m still very sad about that.
And it kind of saddens me to see that almost everyone has been confined to one belief, or none at all. Because my experiences have been so wonderful.
Silver Dragon became Sunrunner Bramblewood, if anyone is updating the list.
87- ooh, that sounds so cool! would you be able to tell me more about Native American beliefs?
new list
e~a’s list of mber’s religions. Please notify me about any additions or modifications you wish to see on the list.
Muslim- FantasyFan
Jewish- Copper Bigfoot, Phoenix, kiki_the_great, Jessie, Brave Sir Robin, Zylviva, Sphinx, elassë~adael, Quintessentia (?), groundhog22, Anata~ChinTsu, FairyDragon, Lizzie, Julieb
Lutheran- Queen-o-random
Catholic- Ebeth
Orthodox- Sunrunner Bramblewood
Hindu- ♥ shriya siolashrwa jeffica ♥
Buddhist- 100% cotton
Mormon (LDS)- Skwerl Overlord, Veralidaine, Zyka
Quaker- Purple Panda, Zallie, Taiwan Hippo Fan Rosy-Fingered Dawn, elassë~adael
Christian- MontgomeryGurl, Ninja For Christ, Eccentric the Afterthought, Kagcomix
Agnostic- Sweet Melpomene, Dark lord of darkness, elassë~adael, curious and questioning
Atheist- Queenie J, Skipper Nancy, Darth Yoda (=Travatan Oteino), Lizzie, penguini, Yup, Bobbyjkl, First Sorceress, Shadowkat, curious and questioning, Potato Chip
Wiccan- emogrl, FairyDragon
Protestant- book_addict, VanZepplin, Otzi
Unitarian-
Mixed Bag of Random Beliefs- Pentatonikk, Gwendolyn of the Eastern Seas, Otzi, Axa, elassë~adael, curious and questioning
Druid Reconstructionist- Millie
Spiritual Athiest – The Bev, Harmony with short red hair
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM)- First sorceress…
Radical Athiest- Shino Aburame/Gaar of the desert, Queenie J
Asatruar- Frigid Symphony
Green Cow- curious and questioning
45- Love the nine principles…tenets…whatever of Satanism [been a while since I’ve read them, can you tell?], especially the last one.
58- For whatever random reason, reincarnation.
70- : ) I was reading into Buddhism for quite some time…
73- Mmm, logic.
75- Eek. *tchoqlit*
76- Lovin’ it.
I am a member of the weather demon cult, invented by Molly, Amy and I when we were on a ski lift.
I go to church (Methodist) with my family because I have to but I really don’t know what I actually believe and refuse to be confirmed.
90: It’s good that people have an open attitude towards Satanism, as centuries of it being demonized by the church have resulted in many prejudices. But Satanism is a good, moral, ethically, philosophically correct religion. Visit churchofsatan.com for more info.
91: No one should be forced to attend church against their beliefs. Exercise your rights as a citizen of a country which claims to have total religious freedom.
36-I may be a hawk, but I would like you to add me to the list. I am a Quaker. I wonder if I know any of you guys?!
Hey wait. I’m not Quaker! I’m the ruler of Zemtee. But the guy typing for me is Quaker, so put me on as a Quaker.
(57 Robert) Yes, I know what Baha’i is. Kinda. My friend’s sister-in-law is Baha’i. It’s kind of a mix between Islam and Catholiscm, right?
(33 SM) My whole family is atheist. My Mum’s parents were kinda Christian in practice, but I think it was mostly for social reasons rather than belief.
(34 Julieb) OK. Thanks for the correction,
(53 cHill) Yeah, that does make sense. And I think you’re right. I mean, many people don’t have the will power to imagine something like Hell, hear all these messages about going there, and still chooses to “risk” going there by not believing in God.
(58 Elizabeth) I understand why you ask that. I believe that doing things that cause pain to other living things is bad, and should be avoided. I believe that doing things that make people happy without damaging the environment or the lives of other people are good. I also believe that “good”, “bad”, “happy” and “pain” are all human terms; they don’t exist outside of human context. However, they are still important to understand. In the long run, nothing really matters, but we are here, and we have life, and we may as well make it as good as possible. I hope that’s clear.
I agree with pretty much all Christian morals; don’t kill, don’t steal, etc. I just don’t believe in God.
(61 Purple Panda + 64 Robert) One vote of interest in the World Religions thread for me. I was enjoying discussing Huston Smith’s book.
(75 kriket) I’m really sorry you’re so upset; I understand why. Some of us were a little less than sensitve, and it’s always painful to have your beliefs blatantly challenged or ridiculed. I hope my post didn’t hurt your feelings; I didn’t mean to sound aggressive. But your post in 15 was a little pushy. I mean, you basically said that if we believed in evolution we were ignorant and uninformed. Which doesn’t feel good for those of us who read lots about evolution and strongly believe in it, the same way it probably doesn’t feel good for you when people critisize the Bible. I hope you will come back, and I apologize for the hurt feelings. I do respect your beliefs, and I don’t think being Christian is stupid.
(86 Frigid Symphony) Yes, FS, you can do those things. You can also let go of your own personal beliefs for 10 seconds, step outside the divisions of belief, and have some universal human compassion for a person who is feeling bad. It’s good that you have your own opinions, but it doesn’t matter. They won’t change anything, so why use them to cause more pain?
(87. Lady Visala of Reverie) That sounds lovely. I wish I had that many types of experiences. As it is, I have a lot of Christian friends, and I’ve done some Church things with them before. We also have some Jewish friends, and we always go to their seder for passover. My Mum studies Islamic art and architecture, so we have all this Islamic stuff, and billions of books on Islam. But I haven’t done that much in the way of really experiencing other religions. And I think now I’m too firmly rooted in my atheist beliefs to really appreciate them from the inside. I can enjoy observing them, though.
ATTENTION ALL! THE DEAREST AND ALL POWERFUL ADMINISTRATORS HAVE WARNED EVERYBODY NOT TO USE GREEN! Please take note, especially newbies.
This has been a public service announcement. You may return to your topic.
93- unfortunately, “religous freedom” does not seem to cover “freedom from being dragged places and to events by parental units”.
50-lol. actually i did. its quite a normal argument. (gods day is longer then ours)
mmk. i am a member of the chruch of the flying spaghetti monster! gravity is a theory!!! intelligent falling is a fact!i am not a satanist, because i believe that they are lacking in morals. according to wikipedia, satanists (or LAvey followers) believe that might is right, and in social darwinism. also in an “eye for n eye tooth for a tooth concept. i do not. however, i would defend satanism against the people who think they worship satan. bloody ignorants!
on evolution. may i post a link to a most excellent article from scientific american about it?
http://www.swarthmore.edu/NatSci/cpurrin1/textbookdisclaimers/wackononsense.pdf
58-yep. got morals. here they are. do not hurt anyone else without their permission. do not do anything to anyone else that could hurt them that they do not know could hurt them. basically dont do anything to anyone that they dont want, or possibly could not want if they understood it f
75-hmm did you beat down our religion? lets see…. “To all atheists- Why don’t you believe in a religion? I mean, you could be going to hell! I don’t want to see any of my fellow musers go to hell!!! At least non-Christian/non-atheist people actually have a religion! Seriously, all you atheist peoples, don’t you feel like you have to have a purpose in life? Don’t you want to believe that you were more than just a random “SPLAT!” in the universe and are just made to live and die? Don’t you wish sometimes that you can just go to heaven? What happens after you die? Do you just vanish, with no purpose, no welcoming party in heaven to look forward to? Do you just live your life like there is a big hole in your heart? God thinks of us as his BRIDE. Not a rock, not a sheep, not just a princess, a BRIDE. Do you know how that feels, to be thought of so highly? If you don’t like, believe in God, then it’s like you’re a bad wife/husband and cheating on the person who loves you the most.”
i think that qualifies.
76-indeed. it came form the book.
please add me to the list under FSM.
47: Hebrew is for the old testament, which is all part of the Jewish scriptures, and written in Hebrew. Aramaic is just a cool language. And the school I’m going to go to next year makes Greek obligatory. So I’m going to learn it anyway, and didn’t fell it necesary to write that down. Sometimes I forget that you peoples don’t know anything that I’ve said or thought unless I twell you
but thanks.
Oops, though. I misused the word “gospels”, which usually means the new testament. Sorry.
86-Yes, you can, but you don’t have to be so dreadfully blunt and cruel about it. People are entitled to their beliefs, and the expression of them, without being told that they’re bloody brainwashed idiots.
89.could you add me under mixed bag of beliefs…thanx
25-No no. The meaning of life is 42.
95-I live near a Baha’i temple. It’s very pretty.
I feel that the biggest problem with being an atheist is people asking you stuff. If you say, “I’m an atheist,” occasionally someone will come back at you with “Where do we go after we die?” as if you, yes you, are personally responsible for this question and should know. “The file’s in the other office,” as the man said about the Commonwealth.
60: Well, those are some good things to live by!
75: Kricket, if anything I’ve posted offended you in any way whatsoever, I’m really sorry!! I hope you come back!!
90: What are the 9 tenets? Just curious…My ex-BF read about Satanism, and he said that it’s more of a way of life than a religion.
71 (and for anyone else who wanted to know more): Okay…
-Wiccans believe that a God and Goddess created everything in the universe.
-Wicca centers around meditation and acknowledging the changing seasons.
-Wiccans believe that the Otherworld is where souls go after death…and that they are eventually reincarnated. And we believe in Karma.
-There are eight Wiccan holidays. New and Full moons are celebrated as well.
-Men and women are treated equally!
-Most Wiccans do spellwork, but it isn’t mandatory.
So…I haven’t done any rituals in like…three months. Not good…I feel like a lightning bolt’s going to come down from the sky at any minute and smite me or something…
105- huh. I think I agree with all of that. more details please?
75(again)-personally, I think we should all just get along. Though I may not agree, I want you to know that I respect your beliefs and welcome your presence on this thread. Geez. that sounded formal, though I think I may have spelled presence wrong…
105-well, i’ve never done any rituals, and i dont feel especially in danger of smite. (no offense meant.)
104-they are :
1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.
4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.
5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.
7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
9. Do not harm little children.
10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.
anyhoo. i do not really agree with the morals behind it, if you know what i mean.
75 (kricket)- Even though I haven’t posted on this thread, I hope other Musers can respect your beliefs. I accept that you’re Christian, and I most certainly wouldn’t bash what you believe in.
Still, telling people they’re going to hell (even if you really believe that) may not be the best option. And don’t get mad if someone believes something different, and posts telling you they don’t agree.
I believe what I want to believe. I believe in no organized religion, because telling other people what to think about the world around them, even if it’s true, isn’t right. Everyone sees the world differently and thinks differently, so they’ll naturally believe different things. Personally, I think that if there is a higher power, it has no impact on my life, and I don’t bother myself with it. But if someone else thinks that there’s a god shaping everything they do, I’m not going to tell them they’re wrong because that’s how they see the world.
I guess that would make my “religion” tolerance. But I call it Mixed Bag of Random Beliefs because it’s a better name, and more apt to describe my beliefs. I really like Buddhism’s principles of moderation, and Pastafarianism’s I’d-Really-Rather-You-Didn’ts (despite the silly source, they’re actually pretty darn useful), and meditation from bajillions of religions, and general principles of kindness and love-thy-neighbor-ness from bajillions more.
So that’s what Penty believes. I will not try to convert you, and I will not try to tell you your religion is wrong, because for you it isn’t.
Thank you.
89- Please put me down as agnostic. I am one currently being forced to go to church by a church-crazed methodist grandmother. SOME ONE SAVE ME!!!!! *cries* *dreads next weekend*
I’l say it again: LADY VISALA OF REVERIE IS AN AGNOSTIC.
Thank you.
Yeah, the church I attended when I was younger is terribly liberal. (Not in a bad way…) We have a gay couple, a gay man, a lesbian couple, a woman pastor and last year we celebrated a Jewish seder. I love it there. I don’t usually go anymore, though. My parents still go. They’ve tried to get me to go, but it doesn’t really make sense for me to.
I’ve grown up with so much respect for other religions and beliefs. They’re all okay with me. I find the variety fascinating. I believe that each person is meant for a belief and that no-one has the right to force theirs on anyone else.
I still carry some of the Wiccan principles I learned, as you can probably see.
I must go to class as of right now. *sob*
Sorry for the double-posting. I had to go to class.
Those are the Satanists tenets? Those make a lot of sense. Except for the cruelty bit.
“An it harm none, do what ye will.” I’m sure you’ve heard that before. The Wiccan Rede.
I do agree with the scientific aspect of atheism. But I respect all religions and beliefs. The only thing that bugs me is when people force their beliefs on others or don’t accept others, cos that’s not how beliefs are defined. That’s usually when I get mad.
EX:
I was at a Baptist Convention in November. My parents sent me just because they wanted me to learn how actual Baptists act and believe — not radically liberal ones who don’t believe in Hell, etc. So, this cabinent member said something that bashed another religion (forgot what it was). I got upset, very very upset. I asked her about it, if she actually believed if that was so wrong and her religion was the one that was right and true. She said, of course, why would I lie? She took a can of Coke that I had to reply to this questioning urge I had. She said, “This can is red. You say it is yellow. Someone else comes round and says that its purple. However, it IS red. There are many different truths to many different people. However, there is only one that IS true: Jesus. Jesus is the one truth we have in this world.”
Said I, “Well, to a Buddhist, Jesus isn’t the great one, who saved his people and spread love and spiritual enlightenment. It was Buddha. That is what they believe. Truth is usually just a belief. It is the same for that Buddhist as for you.”
She replied, “Well, I hope that Buddhist searches harder for truth, and finds it to be Jesus Christ.”
Can you imagine how angry I was?
I don’t care what religion you practise, as long as you do practise acceptance.
106: What kind of details?
92- Thanks. Yay for refreshers.
93-97- Ugh. Hate that. I got out of it aaaages ago. However, many of my friends haven’t. Poor things. I try to get them out of such…events. Then I get labeled as a “bad influence.”
103- Frustrating. As my grandmother once said, “In the ground!”
104- *C&Ps from the site Fridgey posted*
1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!
2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!
3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!
4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!
5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!
6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!
7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,†has become the most vicious animal of all!
8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!
9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!
You can see why the last one stuck with me. : )
I love 7 so hard! It falls right in line with my personal creed of SM-ness.
111- I think I would have spontaneously combusted. I do the same thing. Stay chill with everyone, until they try to convert you. Then rip their superstitions to shreds. Okay, so I’m a little more harsh about it…
I probably fall under “Mixed Bag of Beliefs,” too, but because I have my own lovely code of…ethics?
75-don’t cry ppl whocry make me cry
so, what do you guys think: are most teenagers athiest, christian, or “other”?
I never really knew any athiests until I came here, at least no one ever talked about it, so do you think teenagers just don’t think about religion or what?
It seems to me that most of my friends are either Christian, atheist, or haven’t thought about it and just go with something that’s socially
“normal” I think that most teens who really think about religion are either atheist or follow their parents
110,111- It’s like that at my dad’s protestant church, our minister is lesbian. it’s a great place to go, but talking to more closeminded friends can get awkward. I feel so much more involved there, because at my mom’s catholic church, it seems you have no choice in anything at all.
I’m amazed at how all religions (at least all of the ones that i’ve encountered shared pretty much the same beliefs- get along with everyone else, don’t destroy nice stuff, and try to get closer to peace (in most cases, god)
114- Are you Kricket? sorry about what happened, sometimes i wonder if religion should be marked as a “hot topic” thread
I know all sorts, but Christians are def. a majority. There are a bunch of athiest/agnostics such as myself, too. *shrugs* I don’t talk to enough people to know…
to all who wish the list to be updated. I have no time to update it right now, sorry.
105-Very interesting…it sounds like Wicca is a very nature-based religion, no? And these rituals of which you speak, what do they involve, and are they necessary?
113– Honestly, I’m not usually that calm when people say things like that. But it was a very nice hotel and my house was five minutes away, so they very easily could’ve kicked me out.
Yeah, the speaker at the convention was freaky, though. He proposed to his wife about two minutes after he met her because she was a saved Christian. He was also saying how much the media corrupts the youth (which it does, but this is terribly shallow): he walked into a Subway one day and the server, the seventeen-year-old server had blue hair! Heaven forbid! He was appalled by this. Funny thing is, I almost dyed my hair purple before the convention. How I would’ve longed to have seen his face! It was mean on my part, but they were so easy to offend. They didn’t get mad, just freaked out. They were scary, too. I’m not terribly accostumed to praise music and it was shocking. (At our church, we’ve always done hymns.) They had a praise-version of “Amazing Grace,” which I think if there’s one song that should not be praise, it is that one.
117– My mum’s lesbian friend was ordained a couple of weeks ago. She used to be married to a Jewish woman, but they split up. She still came for the ordination, though.
I have had an interesting childhood. If its alright, can I request a thread for childhood memories?
There is something I’d like to address: Christians who could really care less about what they do and how they act just because they’ve been saved. I’m sorry, but I know enough Christians and enough about Christianity to know that that’s not how it goes. My friend was telling me about this girl at her school who was reading a book on the Salem Witch Trials. A woman (a visitor, or someone) walked up to her and said, “You shouldn’t be reading that, now you’ll go to Hell! But it doesn’t matter for me cos I’m SAVED!” I don’t like how people use being saved as an excuse for being a jerk-off.
Another thing that woman said to me at the convention: “God hates sinners.”
Me: “Uhm, isn’t hate itself a sin? And I thought he loved you no matter what.”
Psycho-b**** woman: “When God hates, its righteous intolerance. And he only hates people who aren’t saved.” (And she had just totally contradicted herself, as in the rest of the freakin’ “argument” we were having. It was the most circular argument I’ve ever had in my life: “Its in the scripture”, “its God’s word”, “he made it to be so,” etc. etc. etc…)
That convention was a cultural experience. But really, I thought cultural experiences promoted understanding. Oh, no, this only created more confusion when I tried to see how real Baptists believe.
I’d-Really-Rather-You-Didn’ts?
What are they? That sounds intriguing, and a possible candidate for alternate Thursdays.
Prayer
O penguins, in Your infinite mercy and kindness, cast Your icy breath upon the land. Send wings of snow to envelop us, and all will be well. Really, all we want is a snow day. Is that too much to ask from You? Anyway, we beg most humbly, and hope most sincerely that it will be so by your omnipresent Flipper. Thanks so much, we’ll try not to ask too much and all that, but this is of the utmost importance because I’m overscheduled tomorrow. A-penguin.
122-gotta love em. (from wikipedia.)
oh yeah. *warning sexually/verbally explicity material!!!*
While brooding atop Mount Salsa because he cannot find a Pirate ship, Mosey the Pirate captain (a parody of Moses from the Old Testament) receives some advice from the Flying Spaghetti Monster in the form of ten stone tablets. These were called the “I’d Really Rather You Didn’ts” by the FSM, the “Commandments” by Mosey, and the “Condiments” by his Pirate gang. While there were originally ten “I’d Really Rather You Didn’ts”, two were dropped on the way back down the mountain, with eight remaining. This event “partly accounts for Pastafarians’ flimsy moral standards”. The FSM’s commandments address the treatment of people of other faiths, worship of the FSM, sexual conduct, and nutrition.
1. I’d Really Rather You Didn’t Act Like a Sanctimonious Holier-Than-Thou Ass When Describing My Noodly Goodness. If Some People Don’t Believe In Me, That’s Okay. Really, I’m Not That Vain. Besides, This Isn’t About Them So Don’t Change The Subject.
2. I’d Really Rather You Didn’t Use My Existence As A Means To Oppress, Subjugate, Punish, Eviscerate, And/Or, You Know, Be Mean To Others. I Don’t Require Sacrifices, And Purity Is For Drinking Water, Not People.
3. I’d Really Rather You Didn’t Judge People For The Way They Look, Or How They Dress, Or The Way They Talk, Or, Well, Just Play Nice, Okay? Oh, And Get This In Your Thick Heads: Woman = Person. Man = Person. Samey = Samey. One Is Not Better Than The Other, Unless We’re Talking About Fashion And I’m Sorry, But I Gave That To Women And Some Guys Who Know The Difference Between Teal and Fuchsia.
4. I’d Really Rather You Didn’t Indulge In Conduct That Offends Yourself, Or Your Willing, Consenting Partner Of Legal Age AND Mental Maturity. As For Anyone Who Might Object, I Think The Expression Is Go F*** Yourself, Unless They Find That Offensive In Which Case They Can Turn Off the TV For Once And Go For A Walk For A Change.
5. I’d Really Rather You Didn’t Challenge The Bigoted, Misogynist, Hateful Ideas Of Others On An Empty Stomach. Eat, Then Go After The B*******.
6. I’d Really Rather You Didn’t Build Multimillion-Dollar Churches/Temples/Mosques/Shrines To My Noodly Goodness When The Money Could Be Better Spent (Take Your Pick):
1. Ending Poverty
2. Curing Diseases
3. Living In Peace, Loving With Passion, And Lowering The Cost Of Cable
I Might be a Complex-Carbohydrate Omniscient Being, But I Enjoy The Simple Things In Life. I Ought To Know. I AM the Creator.
7. I’d Really Rather You Didn’t Go Around Telling People I Talk To You. You’re Not That Interesting. Get Over Yourself. And I Told You To Love Your Fellow Man, Can’t You Take A Hint?
8. I’d Really Rather You Didn’t Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You If You Are Into, Um, Stuff That Uses A Lot Of Leather/Lubricant/Las Vegas. If The Other Person Is Into It, However (Pursuant To #4), Then Have At It, Take Pictures, And For The Love Of Mike, Wear a CONDOM! Honestly, It’s A Piece Of Rubber. If I Didn’t Want It To Feel Good When You Did It I Would Have Added Spikes, Or Something.
All of my friends are christian. One’s dad is a priest.
Hmm. There seems to be a lot here about forcing religious beliefs on people. While I certainly don’t condone it in any way, shape, or form; I do have to say it’s done wonders for a girl at my school called Tessa. I knew her when we were little, and she was a complete brat. 5 years later she’d found religion(christain) and is now one of the nicest people on the planet. It completely freaks me out.
That’s why Judaism is a fairly good religion, as far as organized religions though. Not only do they(we) not encourage others to join, the conversion process is so difficult and tedious so as to discourage it. I have, proudly, never had anyone hand me a pamphlet advocating Judaism. As [most] Jews don’t believe in hell, and that all people go to heaven no matter what, there is no reason to convert anyone.
123- Love them!
Okay, I am pretty much in the love with the I’d-Really-Rather-You-Didn’ts. They are love.
Frisbeetarianism:
When you die, your soul goes up on the roof and can’t get down.
Alternate Thursday, curious and questioning?
emogrl and FairyDragon, are you solitaires or in covens? I was a solitaire when I practised.
Trying this again….
78- I hate you. I hate you I hate you I hate you. You are the worst Muser ever. You don’t deserve to be on the MB. How do you know what’s wrong and right? *is seriously crying right now* In fact, I hope you go to hell. You deserve it.
can we have updated list of religions here, sock monkey? BTW, i’m the same person as Gaara, Naruto, and Shino. just thought i’d let u know. ( just put me on as SoulForged, cuz hopefully i’m gonna stick with this name for a while.
123- for number 4, the expression is actually “go screw yourself”.
I have noticed that the religion thread is even more conducive to flame wars than the hot topics thread.
I did specify Hot Topics rules for this thread (see comment 21 above), but it didn’t work. I guess we administrators will have to step in and start enforcing civility.
Please keep in mind that religion is the most important thing in the world to those who take it seriously, and that people who proselytize are trying to rescue you from what they believe to be a fate literally worse than death. Even if you disagree and regard them as misguided, it’s worthwhile to put yourself in their shoes and consider their feelings. And if you think that they would be better off believing something different, insulting someone is not the best way to change his or her mind.
All right, end of GAPA sermon.
129- oh yeah. religion is the hottest topic you can find, besides me.
only joking.
OEAD- sorry. i…just…wait a second! i already apologized!
P.S. On the other hand, wishing eternal torment on someone who disagrees with you seems a bit un-Muserly, too.
What…*Actually reads (doesn’t skim) entire thread…*
Oh my gosh. It’s official; I have completely lost my cool.
FS: You are absolutely assinine. In fact, you are probably the most assinine person I’ve ever known. I don’t see how a person in their right mind could be as rude as you are.
Sure, we can discuss Wicca. You can diss it all you want, and I will defend it to the end, since giving you the cold shoulder doesn’t seem to phase you the least bit. Bring it, kid!
This thread looks like it is hurting a lot of feelings.
127 – I agree with a lot of what you’re saying, but you don’t need to “wish” people to go to hell if you belive that they deserve it.
125- what exactly does the conversion process consist of? I’ve been thinking about conversion since last May.
ahem. I don’t update with your everywish. I did say I might not update my list in a while a couple posts back. sheesh. due to peer pressure, here’s an update.
new list
e~a’s list of mber’s religions. Please notify me about any additions or modifications you wish to see on the list.
Muslim- FantasyFan
Jewish- Copper Bigfoot, Phoenix, kiki_the_great, Jessie, Brave Sir Robin, Zylviva, Sphinx, elassë~adael, Quintessentia (?), groundhog22, Anata~ChinTsu, FairyDragon, Lizzie, Julieb
Lutheran- Queen-o-random
Catholic- Ebeth
Orthodox- Sunrunner Bramblewood
Hindu- ♥ shriya siolashrwa jeffica ♥
Buddhist- 100% cotton
Mormon (LDS)- Skwerl Overlord, Veralidaine, Zyka
Quaker- Purple Panda, Zallie, Taiwan Hippo Fan Rosy-Fingered Dawn, elassë~adael, Red Tailed Hawk
Christian- MontgomeryGurl, Ninja For Christ, Eccentric the Afterthought, Kagcomix
Agnostic- Sweet Melpomene, Dark lord of darkness, elassë~adael, curious and questioning, SupremeMuser2000, Lady Visala of Reverie
Atheist- Queenie J, Skipper Nancy, Darth Yoda (=Travatan Oteino), Lizzie, penguini, Yup, Bobbyjkl, First Sorceress, Shadowkat, curious and questioning, Potato Chip
Wiccan- emogrl, FairyDragon
Protestant- book_addict, VanZepplin, Otzi
Unitarian-
Mixed Bag of Random Beliefs- Pentatonikk, Gwendolyn of the Eastern Seas, Otzi, Axa, elassë~adael, curious and questioning, Musketeer Number 5, Sweet Melpomene
Druid Reconstructionist- Millie
Spiritual Athiest – The Bev, Harmony with short red hair
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM)- First sorceress, dark duke of darkness
Radical Athiest- SoulForged, Queenie J
Asatruar- Frigid Symphony
Green Cow- curious and questioning
kricket- I’m sorry that this thread has upset you so much. I would just like you to note that most people on this thread have stated that they really do respect you for your beliefs, and don’t want to bash you for saying what you believe. It’s just that one or two people don’t understand their beliefs do not override those of others, and that being rude does not equal being strong. In the future, I would suggest that you just ignore FrigidSymphony’s posts until he can demonstrate a more mature and intellectual attitude.
I really hate saying stuff like that, but I feel I should.
I have a response to 73.
God DOES know everything. Yes, it is pre-determined that we will go to heaven or hell before the world was created. BUT ONLY GOD KNOWS THAT STUFF! WE DON’T! So we have free choice, but God knows what choices we will make.
It’s like everyone has a hidden script for their life, but nobody can see it until it is “acted out” by that peson.
Does that make sense?
95- Interesante.
99- Greek? Gah! Lucky….
121- Kudos to you.
123- FSM makes me even happier now!
125- That’s rather nice : )
130- Brilliant point.
Okay, people, can we please civilly agree to disagree? Even if there is some sort of evangelizing or bashing involved, please, can we stay cool about it? And support any claims in a relatively logical and organized manner?
“Know religion, know conflict.”
*le sigh*
135- thx
137- if some “higher power” knows what choices we will make, then they aren’t really choices at all. if the “higher power” has a plan set out for everyone, then we can’t be totally random and do what we want to do. also, if our lives are already planned, then this god/goddess person isn’t doing very well planning the lives of thousands of people who are dying, starving, being tortured, being asassinated, and suffering from poverty. all of that is happening right now, and that’s just more proof that there is no greater being. it’s just us, our decisions, and the consequences of our decisions. as i said before, “miracles” only happen because it’s either (a) a coincidence, or (b) something we don’t know about coming into effect.
I swear the only way I am ever coming back to the MB AT ALL is if Fridgey posts a nice APOLOGY, if he even knows what that is. *storms off*
138 – Yes, I hope we could all civilly disagree. I am a Christian, and I feel like defending my belifs. I have been looking at this thread and I feel I need to say something. I’m not going to call you names. I just want you to know we have answers for your debunkings of our religion, FrigidSymphony. (I’m not kricket, by the way)
25 and 26 – Yes, we Christians have practically no evidence of creationism. But creationism and evolution might, JUST MIGHT, be the same thing. I’m not completely sure about this, but if you look at creationism and evolution, they are very loosely in the same order. Creationism COULD be a metaphor for evolution. And plus, “God days” don’t have to be 24 hours long. They could be 24 million hours long if God wants them to be. (I may be restating post 50)
38 – Look, just because THOSE people went out and killed people in the name of god, doesn’t mean I will do that. Muslims were involved in 9/11. Does that mean all Muslims supported 9/11? Not by a long shot!
45 – Religion is not outdated. Science is ruining it! Let me quote Jesus here, “If you had faith only the size of a mustard seed, you would move mountains.” Well, guess what? Thanks to science, we now have no faith. Wonder why miracles ain’t happening anymore?
78 – We are not human stupidity. We are part of what we belive is the truth. Also, I looked into studies that said a very religious person is less likely to have extreme stress and is less likely to become obese.
Gotta go now-I’ll post more later. Comment about what I said. I have answers.
This thread is making me really depressed…can everybody just forgive eachother, because I feel that instead of openly discussing religions, all people are doign is having fights, etc., and it is no fun to read.
(142) Does that mean that people shouldn’t talk about their beliefs? Or that nobody should be allowed to criticize anyone else’s beliefs? Is being quiet the only way people with very different beliefs can get along? Just curious.
(141) So science is bad? Would we be better off not knowing that planets go around the sun, or about chemical elements and molecules and atoms, or that germs cause disease? Just curious.
(Yes, I’m feeling curious today.)
I’m back!
111 – See, the thing is is that most religions, including Christianity, belive THEY are the correct religion, and that everyone should follow them. Though, if they were really acted psycho, refer to my response to 121.
121 – Those uppity Christians don’t understand what Christianity is all about.
123 – Please don’t insult Christianity. I am not insulting your religion!
125 – Notice what religion does to people?
142 – The problem with this thread if that flame wars are practically UNAVOIDABLE. Any really strong Christian would start evangelizing on this thread, as anyone else from a religion that belives theirs is right, and is the only one that’s right. Then people start trying to debunk each other, because their religion belives that all other religions are wrong, and etc. Refer to my comment on 143 for a way to solve this problem.
143 – Great idea.
Oh wait, I made a mistake. Forget my comment about 143 on my previous post. Wher’d that post go saying a good topic thread would be how people with very different belifs get along?
143, response to 141 – I dunno. You’d have to look into whether people were really happier back then, beliving impossible things were possible.
143, response to 142 – Is being quiet the only way people with different religions can get along? Unfortunantly, the answer may be yes.
>> See, the thing is is that most religions, including Christianity, belive THEY are the correct religion, and that everyone should follow them.
MBers discussed this idea on one of the World Religion threads. The upshot was that Christians and Muslims generally do feel that way, but Buddhists, Hindus, and Jews don’t. I’m not sure about other religions.
I’m bowing out of this thread. I really think things are going remarkably smoothly here, considering how many different beliefs there are in the world and how vehemently people disagree about them.
142/146 – I’ve just seen a lot of people getting really mad at other people, etc., and I just wish people would stop bashing each other’s religions. I still think people should discuss their religions, but just not say that other people’s religions are wrong and if they don’t follow theirs then they’ll die a slow and painful death. Now that I think about it, it seems like it would be hard to do this, but it just seems that people are getting really upset by this, and I don’t think it seems like a very muserly-like thing.
@kricket and Fridgey: No srsly. Cool it.
“So just give up, lose your beliefs and don’t be a model of human stupidity and hypocrisy?” I’m sorry, but this makes me really angry. You do not tell ANYONE to ‘lose their beliefs’ because EVERYONE has a right to those beliefs. You don’t have to agree with them, but you do have to respect them. You can post to civilly say why you disagree, but personal bashing is unacceptable. End of story.
“In fact, I hope you go to hell. You deserve it.” And you’re going to tell him this while trying to get a sincere apology? Probably not the best way to go around doing it. Correct me if I’ve got my theology wrong, but isn’t hell pretty much the absolute worst thing that can happen to a person in Christianity? Why would you wish that on anyone, even someone who has been really terribly mean to you? Again, personal bashing is unacceptable.
Bottom line, people’s beliefs are important. Tolerate them.
135- The conversion process is extremely difficult, not something you’d want to do unless truly commited. Conversion requires years of study and thorough knowledge of the faith, and some ritual ceremonies (I think, one of my parent’s friends converted and most of this is from him) Even if you started the process now, you may not be converted for 5 years or more. Converts are also more strictly bound than those born into Judaism, generally they have to promise to uphold all laws of judaism, mitzvot, etc. , which most jews don’t, i.e. keeping kosher, going to synogogue, etc.
I don’t believe other religions are true, just because that’s not what I believe in. But I don’t think it’s “wrong” to believe in something just because I’m atheist. The only religions that in my opinion shouldn’t be respected would be anything that does sacrifices, and as far as I know none of those still exist. (Do they?)
125- I knew these two twins that were really really seriously Catholic. They actually followed the good parts of that religion, and they were some of the nicest people I knew. I think this might be similar to what happened to Tessa.
150- Yeah, there is a section in newsweek called “Beliefwatch” which is a short column that prints stories that have something to do with religion, while being objective(they include things on atheism and so on) In february they published something on animal slaughter in modern times. They name the religions of Santeria, Hmong, and Islam as religions with ritual animal slaughter, but if the animals are eaten and are killed humanely, I don’t see what the problem is. Otherwise, I don’t know, it’s a deeply engrained part of the religion, while most choose only to follow the aspects of religion they agree with, sometimes tradition is tradition. What do you all think?
—————————————————————————
This might be a little long, but here’s the article from newsweek.com:
Feb. 5, 2007 issue – The ancient Jews did it. So did the Romans and the Aztecs. Sacrificing an animal to please or placate God or the gods has been commonplace for many thousands of years. Still, it’s a little bit shocking when we see the practice in our own backyards.
Last spring a Texan named Jose Merced, who also happens to be a Santeria priest, was at home preparing to kill a chicken as part of a religious ritual when the cops came to the door. According to a complaint filed in federal district court last month, the cops told Merced he couldn’t sacrifice the chicken without permission from the city of Euless, a suburb near the Dallas airport; city officials, according to the complaint, later denied him a permit. Merced is suing the city for violating his First, Fifth and Fourteenth Amendment rights, saying that blood sacrifice is essential to his religious expression. “There is … no substitute for the spiritual energy contained in blood,” he says in an affidavit. “Without animal sacrifice as taught to us through tradition, Santeria as a set of beliefs and meaningful practices would cease to exist.” Last week the city of Euless filed a motion to dismiss the case.
Santeria receives the bulk of the attention given to this issue—including from the Supreme Court, which in 1993 allowed a group of Floridians to continue their sacrifices—but many other Americans ritually slaughter animals as well. The Hmong, of whom there are an estimated 280,000 in this country, traditionally kill a chicken, a pig and a cow as part of a funeral rite: the chicken soul leads the deceased back to his ancestors, the pig is the soul’s companion and the cow is “like an umbrella,” protection for the journey, explains Txong Pao Lee, executive director of the Hmong Cultural Center, in St. Paul, Minn. Today these killings usually take place in a slaughterhouse with a shaman present, but not always. Muslims around the world make an animal sacrifice on Eid ul-Adha, the holiday marking the end of hajj; most American Muslims pay for an animal to be sacrificed abroad, but a few do it here, on farms. Because of ancient kosher laws, even Jews are sensitive to cases like that of Jose Merced. Rabbi Moshe Elefant, who oversees the rules of kashrut for the Orthodox Union, explains that while Jews have not been permitted to sacrifice animals since the destruction of the Temple, kosher animals are killed the same way today as they were back then. Colonel Sanders, it seems, is the innovator.
121- ya, I know what you mean about “saved people” not having to worry and all that. They deffinately do, well, i don’t know if worry is the right word, maybe try to do the right thing and all that.
135- I”M PROTESTANT!!!!! I think I posted that already, but I don’t remember…
137- I agree, but it’s just a belief, nothing I can prove
143- I almost think science is bad, sorta… If we spent all the time and money we spend on science on solving poverty, hunger, violence, other bad things in our world, I think it’d be a better use of our money and time and all. There’s nothing wrong with science, but I think we should think hard about what really has to be studied. Solving cancer, global warming, and AIDS are very important scientific experiments. Making atomic bombs, proving evolution/creationism, or studying life way down deep in the ocean or way out in outer space aren’t important. Those things aren’t likely to benefit human life, why should we care about how we came to be or if life forms occur somewhere else when people are dying and suffering? These things don’t increase our quality of life as much as using that money to end poverty would.
126: I’m on my own right now, but I’d like to join a coven.
139- i wouldnt call it proof,] just evidence.
152-science is extremely important, for the same reasons history is.
i believe its okay to believe in higher entities. certainly calms the masses, to not know the truth. IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH. of course, there is some chance that a higher siety exsists, but there are other things that are much more likely. such as winning the powerball. (1 in 40million) or having us all be watched by aliens. or have a “the matrix” like situation) it seems so obvious that humans did not know how he world worked, so the only logical explination was that someone else created the world. i assume ya’lls religious people believe that there is only one god, or one group of gods. then why does religion adapt to the time period? and if there is only one god, ans s/he it sent messengers to tell people about them. then whya re there so many religions? christianity is hug e only because their proselytizers didnt mind killing a few million heathens. as science knows more and more about the world, religion adapts, so that it is not completely obviously contradicted by common sense. one could easily develop a religion that is not disproven once by science. and yet, that would not make it any more true than all other religions.
141-that would be because they dont worry. if you didnt know that war, or poverty, or death exsisted wouldnt you be a bit more happy? as i said, ignorance is strength.
148- I agree completely. defending your beliefs is one thing and bashing someone else’s is another.
149- what if I were to convert at a reform synagogue? and how would they make sure I was keeping kosher? would it just be giving my word that I was? don’t non converted Jews give their word that they’ll keep kosher etc.?
152- I don’t think you did as I check all posts between the last time I’ve posted the list. next time I update, you’ll be on there.
152- you’re protesting that you’re Protestant! hahaha!
149- A reform (or possibly conservative) synagogue is the only thing you could join. There are almost no orthodox conversions. I don’t know that they’d make you swear to keep kosher, it was just an example. Keeping kosher is a mitzvah, which literally means “commandment,” however, keep in mind that some of these are extremely outdated, such as the mitzvah of giving a specific part of an animal to a specific class of person (a descendent of preists, etc. Wow, never thought I’d use the mitzvah book my extremely orthodox second cousins gave me for my bas mitzvah) , though today they are mostly regarded as “good deeds”, as most of them are generally just sort of good rules to live by, such as be kind to everyone (actually, that’s two. One says be kind to all jews, the other says be kind to all non-jews. ) But then you have ones that are just strange. I just found one that says that when the messiah comes, you should kill all descendents of Amalek. Who’s Amalek? Wait, I’ll wikipedia. It says that the term amalekites has come to symbolically mean all enemies of the jews. Well, that would mean just about everyone? We’ve been persecuted by people all over the planet at some time or another. See my point? Either that, or you take it literally and persecute the actual biological descendents of a person who, if they existed at all, died in biblical times. You simply cannot blame them. Ridiculus.
FINE. I’m sorry that I told Fridgey to go to hell. I was seriously ticked off. Ugh. Now will everyone just shut up about the whole thing? And I still want that apology.
157- heehee you replied to yourself… anyways, what if the conversion was one of someone who was marrying someone Jewish?
139 – I think that if you read the book of Job in the bible, you will understand why innocent people may be suffering.
154 – Yes, ignorance very well may be a strength. I have heard of kids who have gone into conniptions watching the evening news. Because they saw Hurricane Katrina on TV, they morbidly fear clouds…etc. Of course, if ignorance is strength, then scientists, always seeking knowledge and stuff, are breaking this strength. Then we get back into the debate of “Is science bad?” In fact, just by reading Muse, I am breaking this strength, seeking new knowledge about life, the universe, and pie throwing. And so are you. In fact, so is everybody on MuseBlog. And practically everybody on the planet! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
A line must be drawn somewhere, but I really don’t know where.
158 – Before posting what may become highly contoversial, I temporarily change my blog name. That way, I can then change back to my normal name after I’m done posting, and it’s as if someone else wrote it.
Sorry, e~a is right. It was for 155. By the way, it’s the same process no matter what the reason.
(160 > 154),
Resistance is Museless.
139 – Look at it this way.
I am throwing a ball at a trash can. I throw it ten times from where I am, and miss. I could either continue throwing or stop right then.
I decide to stop right then. God knew that I would do that, because he (I’m using “he” for convinience) knows how I’ll react in any situation. He created me!
Now, I did have the free choice to keep throwing. But if I had made that desicion, God would’ve known I would do that and not stop.
It was completely my own free will. God did not tell me to do anything. I used my free will, but God knew how I would use it.
It’s a weird sort of free will, but we DO have it.
146 – Interesting. I don’t think it’s merely a coincidence that Christianity and Islam are the world’s top 2 religions.
Please, Fridgy. Stop. Just stop. You’re being a jerk. I understand that a lot of people are jerks when expressing their beliefs, but that doesn’t give you permission to. Are you so cold that you’re just not considering feelings in this as well? Its one thing to debate and argue a position, but you’re just being…a jackass. You should know from reading this that people on here take their religions seriously, and I understand that you do, too. But do you see anyone else bashing others’? We’re all respectful of each other, and you should be no exception. You’re crossing the line of stating opinion and stating fact. Its like politics. Everyone has a different opinion, but everyone’s entitled to that. You said yourself, use your freedom. But there’s no room for editorials on the MuseBlog. And you’re contradicting yourself by this. You can’t tell poeple to drop their beliefs and use their freedom at the same time. If you want to, take it somewhere else, because we don’t take it here.
I’m sorry, kricket, but I won’t shut up about it. I’m very sorry Fridgy is being such a jackass to you. He’s not simply telling everyone about his beliefs, but he’s bashing others nad being a jackass. Really. He needs to stop. I think we’ve established that we respect each others’ beliefs, including yours. He just really needs to be more considerate, because this obviously means a lot to you. And it should.
133: It’s spelled asinine, with one ‘s’. And why should I diss Wicca? I’m Asatruar. Both neo-pagan religions. I embrace a sister of the old ways.
And everyone else, you kow what? You how many people died and were killed in the name of christ and god? I’m seriously, f**king pissed off now. Christianity is NOT a viable train of thought for the modern advanced world. Neither is Islam. Christianity is built and expanded on the murders of masses of pagans and the robbery of ignorant farmers. As Christianity expanded, the state of health worldwide declined. Christianity may have some respectful aspects, but it’s perverted and twisted by sick people who use it to gain power and wealth. Bottom line? Christianity is wrong, a thing akin to fascism and police states. People who believe fervently don’t know any better, it’s been pushed onto them since birth, and they waste their one life away with abstinence and blindness.
Islam is built on sexism. Women have NO prestige whatsoever, and Islam and Christianity expanded and gained followers by the primitive method of “convert or I’ll behead you”. I’ve seen muslims holding signs saying “behead those who say that Islam is violent”, and I’ve seen christians holding signs saying “kill all fags and dykes” while saying how God loves us all. Religious anti-abortionists shoot doctors and blow up clinics in the name of God. It’s the excuse for most atrocities committed worldwide. Fear of Hell pushes people to extremes. Religions like this, that tell people what to do, what to wear, what to think, are not aspects of a healthy, free society. They are aspects of a medieval feudal ignorant society or of a fascist regime like Nazi Germany. In Norway black metallers are burning churches in vengeance of all their pagan ancestors murdered by King Olaf, who was later martyred and sanctified for all the pagans he killed. Brilliant. But that’s stooping to their level. I’m not saying we follow the Norwegians example, but I do think that the tolerance people have for things this bad are way too high.
163 – what if you had kept throwing? what if you had totally screwed “god”‘s decision? and if “He” knows how we’ll react, then it’s like he programmed into our minds what we’ll do in any situation. that’s not free will, it’s a conspiracy.
IT”S ALL A CONSPIRACY!!! AAAAUUUUGGGGHHHHH!!! *insert more random screaming and panicking*
FrigidSymphony, just because someone believes something is right and you don’t agree, you don’t have to start a flame war. And just because ancient Christians killed people doesn’t mean Christianity is a bad religion now. There are hypocrites and fanatics still, but most people don’t believe that strongly. I’m not saying I’m for Christianity (really, I’m not, but kricket and the nameless person don’t need my ranting as well as FS’s to defend against at once, so I’ll wait), but a majority of people believe it, and I’m never threatened or proselytized at in my life because I don’t agree, like you’re saying I would be. And you’re condoning attacking churches now, for sins comitted forever ago. I don’t know enough about Islam to reply to that. I sometimes debate religion with friends, and even when we disagree, we respect each other’s feelings. MuseBlog is a group of friends. Try that. Maybe start by at least admitting that you might have been a little harsh, and perhaps those part of a religion containing fanatics are not automatically fanatics themself.
154- Orwell?
Fridgy- how can you generalize an entire religion like that? how can you generalize two entire religions like that? Muhammad consulted his wife on everything when be began to have visions in the cave, and whereas he was afraid and unsure, she told him how to go on. islam wasn’t built on sexism, even the practice of vailing was absorbed from later cultures that merged with islamic culture. it isn’t mentioned anywhere in the qur’ran. are any religions without extremeists? the bigger the religion, the more of them. have pagans never done anything wrong toward other peoples? how can a religion exist without telling people how to act civilly toward eachother? isn’t a major point of many religions to both acheive peace on earth as well as with god/the universe?Do you know why many jews survived the plague? because they were kosher!
i agree that the freedom to think, speak, question, and act are important, but so much good has come of religions as well as the bad that’s highlighted.
Remember; we’re all musers here
169-yes, i was quoting orwell. 160-0that was a very sarcastic statement, not something that i actually believe. and i was quoting george orwell, who agreed(s) with me. i have no idea if he’s alive, but i assume he isnt.
166-i believe in freedom of religion, as long as that doesnt hurt my moral standards. if people want to believe that gay people are evil m or that all non-believers should be beheaded, they can, as long as they dont do anything about it. chuch burning is wrong, its just revenge. which is bad. but otherwise i completely agree with you.
on the topic of poverty, war, suffering, and stuff like that, listen to the song Where Is the Love by the Black-Eyed Peas. that pretty much sums it up.
Okay, I’ve been reading this thread and have a few things to say…
How about respecting other people’s beliefs and opinions? If you don’t agree with someone, okay, you don’t agree with someone. That doesn’t mean you should bash it.
im jewish. my bat mitzvah is october 18.
wow, this thread is getting out of control. Everyone should calm down or leave or something. That’s all I have to say…
166 – “Bottom line, Christianity is wrong” No. You may strongly dissagree with some of the ways Christianity has been used over the years (well, many years) but you just don’t say an entire religion and system of beliefs is wrong. Yes, many of the things that some christians do is wrong. But so are the things that other religions do and there are many, many things that christians do that are right. Most of the people harming others aren’t practising christianity right anyway.
161- yes but would the synagogue be more likely to accept the would-be convert? (and I was just teasing you about the post number^_^)
163- that vaguely reminds me of quantum theory. interesting.
I’ve noticed something. Christians are the only religion that lets the whole world trash thier religion. Yeah, someone can put out a book dissing Jesus and nothing happens. But put a cartoon about Mohammed in a Danish Newspaper and the whole world stops turning. Not like I care, they always say how they will defend thier religion…. I haven’t seen any defending. Kind hypocritical don’t ya think?
Ok, I understand respecting peoples beliefs, but I do have to ask why people cannot criticize if they believe it’s wrong? If you read The Salmon Of Doubt, there is a reprinted speech made by Douglas Adams on this very topic; called “Is there an Artificial God?”. He basically asks why people are afraid to challenge religious ideas, no matter how ridiculous they may seem now. Even if you don’t agree, It’s good to see other points of veiw. I must admit I’d never really seen that kind of position on the topic before. I recommend everyone on either side of this “can we question religion?” debate read it.
174- Mazel Tov!
166 – PLEASE JUST STOP IT WITH YOUR POSTS SAYING CHRISTIANS ARE STUPID AND EVIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I DIDN’T GO OUT AND FORCE PEOPLE TO BECOME CHRISTIAN!!! I DIDN’T SAY “CONVERT OR DIE”!!! BUT YOU’RE CALLING US REALLY NASTY NAMES AND TRYING TO FORCE US ALL TO BECOME ATHEISTS!!!!
HAVE I INSULTED YOUR RELIGION IN ANY OF MY POSTS!!!??? I’M REALLY REALLY REALLY GETTING ANNOYED!!! IF CHRISTIANS ARE REALLY DOING THAT, THEY DON’T UNDERSTAND WHAT CHRISTIANITY IS ALL ABOUT!!! PERIOD!!!
*tries to calm down*
166 – Aw, come on! Can’t we just try to be rational here? My word.
178- I’m not saying there’s anything wrong w/ critcizing, but people often do it in a mean way.
I think it’s fine to criticize, but as long as you’re not doing it a way like “(insert religon) is horrible because of such and such!”
Fridgey, as e~a already pointed out, there is nothing wrong with the religion itself. it’s the way people (*coughfanatics) interpret it. And christianity isn’t alone in this.
178 (Julieb)- Criticizing a religion you don’t believe in is fine. Saying its practitioners are sheep/evil/headed for hell is not.
166 (FS)- So bash religious extremism, which is what you’re doing anyway. Don’t bash the religion as a whole, when most Christians are not going out and blowing up abortion clinics and most Muslims are not locking their wives in their houses and then going out and blowing up themselves. It’s not the religion’s fault that people do horrible things in its name. It’s not the people who practice the religion’s fault that some people who believe in the same god(s) they do happen to be so crazed and zealous that they would kill innocents for it. Don’t blame the body for the disease.
Basically, the point I’m trying to get at is treat others as you’d treat yourself. (the golden rule)
Fridgy: Its nice that you’re pissed, cos we are too. You cannot stereotype people based on their religion. Just because someone is a Christian or a Muslim doesn’t mean their sexist, racist, anti-abortion, anti-homo/bi/transsexual, uses threats of death or torture for conversion, etc. Just because the Germans killed six million Jews in the Holocaust doesn’t mean that every German is a biligerant Aryan supporter. My friend was born in Germany and is 3/4 German, but she certainly doesn’t fit the German/Nazi image. Stereotypes are often used for discrimination, and that is what you’re doing. Also: “So just give up, lose your beliefs and don’t be a model of human stupidity and hypocrisy.” I’m interested in the “hypocrisy” bit with you. Science and logic is against Paganism, too. And Pagans sacrificed humans in the name of the deities…obviously you don’t follow that line of morals. Tell the truth, few Christians today are proud of the fact that they murdered so many heathans in the past. So stop putting it against the entirety of the faith, because it very often has nothing to do with the people you talk to today.
Because of course there will be incredibly violent people out there, no matter their religion, background or beliefs. You can’t judge people just because of the actions of someone whose belief system falls under the same name.
I agree with #179: if Christians are blowing up abortion clinics and arresting gays, those people obviously got it wrong. I know there’s the interpretation factor, but there shouldn’t be an argument there.
Also, if the first thing you come up to criticize someone about is their spelling, you’ve got a pathetic argument going for you. Apart from the fact that you’re being a jerk.
Yes, many of the things that some christians do is wrong. But so are the things that other religions do and there are many, many things that christians do that are right. Most of the people harming others aren’t practising christianity right anyway.
yep. so are the things that other religions do? to me, it seems the lesson is religion is bad, not Christianity is good. “I killed someone!” “well, so do lots of other people.” mmmk. so lets all be friends with said person!
179-if christians are really doing that? my god dude, being so clueless doesnt really support your case. ever heard of…. the crusades?
181-mmk so should i say “christians do horrible things in th name of their religion! the bible says horrible things! god is a human fabrication to explain unknown concepts! therefore, all in all, i have no opinion whatsoever on christianity”?
183-true, true. but mosst christians would like to see all abortion clinics destroyed, weather or not they would want bad things to happen to people in them. and most muslims believe women are inferior. also, the whole religion is bad, for reasons i believe FS has already mentioned.
184-8. I’d Really Rather You Didn’t Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You If You Are Into, Um, Stuff That Uses A Lot Of Leather/Lubricant/Las Vegas. If The Other Person Is Into It, However (Pursuant To #4), Then Have At It, Take Pictures, And For The Love Of Mike, Wear a CONDOM! Honestly, It’s A Piece Of Rubber. If I Didn’t Want It To Feel Good When You Did It I Would Have Added Spikes, Or Something.
its a joke, but it has a good point. sometimes what you want to be done to you others dont. (ie, i dont mind people bashing atheism, because i have answers for all questions that pwn them)
166. Lets say tomorrow a whole bunch of Asatruar go out and hold schools across America hostage because they think Christianity is evil and if those kids dont convert to Asatru (or atleast drop Christianity) they are better off dead. And things like this continue…
Mean while you and many other Asatruar are living your little lives the same as you always have (i.e. not killing kids of other religions).
Then one day an atheist kid gets on MB and tells everyone how Asartu is retarded because for years its followers have been killing little kids. How Asartu “may have some respectful aspects, but it’s perverted and twisted by sick people who use it to gain power…It’s the excuse for most atrocities committed worldwide.”
I agree, parts of ancient and modern Christianity and Islam are horrible. Still, to attack ALL followers and practises of these religions as evil or fascist is to be as short sited as George Bush or any other idiotic conservative.
I am Roman Catholic and proud of it.
Why do people have such incorrect concepts about the Catholic Church? We don’t worship Mary! We only worship God. Mary is the mother of God, so shouldn’t she have a pretty high status?
Why is the media paying attention to priests that are stealing money? there are thousands of people who do the same exact thing, but the media ignores them! why does society hate Catholics?
186-about the crusades: every religion has had good times and bad. for instance, Islam has a very bad name right now. remember that Catholocism was persecuted for hundreds of years. Try to name a religion that hasn’t tried to force people to convert. Jews got very violent when people started following Christ.
Catholics do not want abortion clinics destroyed and the people who do the procedures to die or be punished, but rather, we want those people to see the error of their ways and change their behavior. “All men have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.” THE RIGHT TO LIFE! how could an innocent baby not have that right? what did it do? How could anyone deserve death? how? I thought society had moved on from the primitave “Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth” stage. apperantly not. anyone who supports abortion or the death penalty has a lot of maturing to do.
May God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit bless you all.
P.S.:if anyone has questions about Roman Catholocism, just ask.
189 (Piggy)- Thank you for your nice rational post. Go you! ^_^d I may not agree with everything you said (namely on abortion,) but I will respect your views on the matter. If you want to know what I think about it, I’ve posted about it on Hot Topics 07.1, which I am far too lazy to link to.
And by the way, there are plenty of religions that don’t try to win converts. Buddhism is the classic example.
186 (ddod)- Ever heard of…eight hundred years ago? Most Christians now would not condone going to war and killing millions of innocent people just because they happened to believe something different.
Where are you getting your statistics on ‘most Christians,’ anyway? The Christians I know, while (mostly) opposed to abortion, don’t want to see all abortion clinics destroyed. And, while I don’t know that many Muslims, none of the ones I have met are any more sexist than your average teenage guy (and less than some atheistic ones I happen to know). I told this to Fridgey, but I’ll say it to you too: don’t blame the entire religion for the actions of a few zealots.
189- Oh, here we go again. Piggy, you better have a lot of faith in your religion, because if you are not prepared to defend it with sound arguments you may very well end up crying. BTW, I wouldn’t count on a lot of people backing you, anti-abortionists are a minority on MB. It is a recurring topic on the hot topics thread.
I’ve calmed down now.
FridgedSymphony – Why do you keep saying practically the same stuff over and over again?
Excerpt from 166 – Christianity is wrong, a thing akin to fascism and police states. People who believe fervently don’t know any better, it’s been pushed onto them since birth, and they waste their one life away with abstinence and blindness.
Excerpt from 78 – human intelligence that has advanced despite your religions best efforts to stop it is against you. So just give up, lose your beliefs and don’t be a model of human stupidity and hypocrisy.
Excerpt from 45 – Christians are hypocrites.
Excerpt from 38 – Jesus was NOT a bloody idiot. He was a hippie. He was a peace lover. Unfortunately, many stupid people thought he was the son of god (Jesus had a divinity complex- his only failure) and began killing other people in his name.
These all are trying to tell people one thing: (guess)
It gets old after a while.
186 – I have heard about the crusades. Okay, yes, fine, there are Christians doing evil, horrid stuff right now. *Contemplates whether they should be called Christians or not*
189 – I am also a Roman Catholic, and I’m glad I’m not the only one.
And now for something slightly different.
When the Dalai Lama was in town last year, a friend of mine heard one of his Buddhist admirers tell this joke to a mixed group of priests and other people from various religions:
Everyone has an inner critic.
If you are Protestant, your inner critic says, “You’re not working hard enough.”
If you are Catholic, your inner critic says, “You could be sinning and not even know it.”
If you are Jewish, your inner critic says, “Your mother is unhappy, and it’s all your fault.”
If you are Buddhist, your inner critic says, “You’re not compassionate enough.”
(Yes, that was the punchline. That’s Buddhist humor, I guess.)
If you are agnostic, your inner critic is busy wondering what to say.
189 – Certain people are probably going to bombard you with messages that Christianity is false, so be prepared. I’m here to back you up, but I havn’t had Chatecism (I know I didn’t spell that right) yet so I’m still learning about my religion. But I’ll do my best to help you.
This probably should be on the Hot Topics thread, but I’ll post it here anyway.
I’m anti-abortionist! People have a right to life!
Look, having sex for reasons other than it’s natural purpose, then killing what it produces is morally wrong. If ya don’t want to have kids, don’t have sex !!! sheesh
189- hmm… While I dissagree with you on abortion, (I think the woman should choose whether she can support the child/go through with the pregnancy though it’s a terrible decision to make sometimes abortion is necessary. But this isn’t the thread for that, really. Hot topics is the thread you want!) I think that your points are very valid and a relief from the anger that’s getting poured by various others. Thank you for that.
errr… as for everyone else… uh… I started this post before registering for the ACT and am ending it after. That registration takes way to long and I lost my train of thought (oh, train! where are you?) sorry.
193- hahahaha. I laughed at the Jewish one, not the Buddhist one. Though Buddhism is pretty spiffy.
193 – That’s funny.
A few years ago I learned about many religions (in Sunday School before meething), and we visited all sorts of mosques, churches, etc. My favorite one was definitely Buddhism, because we learned how to meditate, and it was really, really interesting.
I think I might have launched a whole other debate here. Sorry.
But I was just looking at some of the previous religion blog threads, and nobody’s arguing about whether religion is right or wrong, and there are no flame wars.
How about we just STOP all the insults, the responses, and stuff. I’m talking about me, too. Let’s just blog about religions, not prove them right or wrong. You can ask me questions about my faith, and I will answer them, but please don’t insult my religion because then I might insult yours, then you’ll insult me, I’ll insult you, etc.
Let’s LEARN about religions here, not about why they’re wrong or right, agreed?
I think that’s a good plan, SWWTRA. To help you get started, here is Robert’s unauthorized and slightly facetious list of major world religions summarized in 25 or fewer words (each), starting with the oldest. I’ve left out the things that most religions have in common and focused on what makes each one different:
Hinduism: You’re already a Hindu whether you know it or not.
Judaism: Jews are special, but no one is sure what that means.
Buddhism: You are unhappy and confused. We can help you fix that, but you’ll have to do some work.
Christianity: You were born bad and deserve to be punished, but God will let you off the hook if you ask in the right way.
Islam: Here’s a short list of rules. Follow them, and you’ll be fine. Disobey them, and you’re toast. Literally.
Any additions?
That makes no sense…I’m a Hindu whether I know it or not? Can any Hindus explain that?
According to Huston Smith (whose book MBers were discussing on earlier religion threads), Hindus believe that the universe is huge, old, complicated, and tricky. They have many gods, who may or may not all be forms of one god, and they think that there are many paths to God (or the gods). Given that general outlook, it’s reasonable for them to assume that other religions are just other paths — part of the same big system. So the people who follow those other religions are, in effect, already Hindus.
oh.
It’s a common idea in polytheistic religions. The Greeks and Romans, for example, figured that Egyptian and Celtic gods were just their own Olympian deities under different names, and they weren’t averse to adding new ones to the list. The Romans were even willing to incorporate the Jewish God Yahweh into their pantheon, but the Jews (and, later, the Christians) wouldn’t settle for being one of many.
…ok, numerous points.
First of all, human sacrifices on behalf of pagans: Very few did it. Smear campaign by the Church. Dammit I hate them… In fact almost no european pagan religions had human sacrifice. That was mostly in latin america.
Pagans doing bad things: No. Pagans did not kill each other over religion. They did over food, blood feuds and lots of other things, but not religion. Paganism condones nature worshiping. Paganism is spiritual.
Buddhism is a philosophy, not a religion.
Islam: Yes. I don’t care what the hell Muhammed did, he had ideas. But if they’re misinterpreted, then they’re misenterpreted by everyone. A line in the Koran goes “woman is inferior to man because Allah has chosen some beings over others”. Islam has centuries of sexism and violence behind it. Now I don’t attack someone just if he’s muslim, I attack the religion. With no religion, there is no extremism. With no bible, there can be no misinterpretations. Christianity too, is built and expanded on violence and bloodshed.
Now, if Asatru: It is NOT dogmatic. There is nothing at all that could in any way be interpreted in a violent way (except perhaps Valhalla- but then people who don’t already like to fight won’t want to go and sit around waiting to fight in a great battle at the end of the world). If a bunch of Asatruars went and held schools hostages, I’d say they’re a bunch of sad freaks and that it is in no way condoned by the religion. The Asatru Alliance in fact speaks out explicitly against racism, hate and violence. What I want is a public apology for all the damage done by christianity and islam over the years.
And I don’t condone church burnings, that’s going down to their level.
186- the crusades weren’t so much about converting the Muslims as it was stopping any more people from becoming Muslim. anyway, lots of people on the crusades were completely misinformed. They thought that if they faught in the crusades they were garunteed to go to heaven. The pope and bishops said do it, they did it
189 (and 195)- while babies have the right to life, do little bunches of cells that don’t even resemble babies, much less have the ability to think and feel have that same right? I mean, If a mother doesn’t want and can’t support her baby, wouldn’t both parties be better off? The baby probably wouldn’t have the best life and having a baby might ruin a mother’s life. She would have to work hard at any job she can find, it’d be hard to go to college etc etc. I think women should have the right of choice, but choosing abortion, as long as it is early on, shouldn’t be looked down opon by anyone.
hypothetically: (but very possible) I have a friend (she’s a freshman in highschool) she somehow got pregnant. What’s she going to do? can you imagine going through college having to support a baby and yourself? she probably won’t go to college and she’ll get whatever job she can. Her life is pretty well ruined. Sure, she should have thought about it before but, can you expect all 14 year olds to have the ability to think before they act? So, if she gets an abortion, she would have a chance at a relatively normal life. But, what if her parents decide that she’s not allowed to have an abortion because of their beliefs. Should the decision be hers or her parents or should there be no decision?
That’s where I’m coming from… oh, and I’m christian, so, so much for all christians wanting to bust up abortion clinics. And I hope I didn’t sound like I thought you were wrong, you have the right to your opinion
193- this is slightly random but, When I was little, there was an old lady in my church and she knew the Dalai Lama, I think she took cre of him as a baby or something…
okay, no more on abortion or arguing from me…
200-Omgosh, Robert, did you write those descriptions?! Those are great!
Yes. I’d been thinking about them since the last round of religion threads.
206-Ultimately, it should be her decision, but it’s also the baby’s life she destroying, and it can’t even have a say in the decision, which is just a little bit unfair, don’t you think? And, yeah, I can expect all 14-year-olds who are having sex to have the ability to think before they act. If they’re not mature and/or responsible enough to handle the consequences, they’re not mature and/or responsible enough to commit the act.
57 – I lied! I said I did not know any Baha’is, but it turns out I do! This boy in my class, Turan, is Baha’i. I found out today because this is the month of fasting, so he can’t eat anything.
FrigidSymphony:
EXACTLY. If Asatruans are doing that, they’re practising it WRONG. OBVIOUSLY the Christians who blow up abortion clinics and kill over conversion are also doing it wrong. That doesn’t mean the entire faith is wrong, as you clearly believe with Asatru. Its not the religion or all of the practicers, its the other people who f***ed it up. Besides, the extremists are very often the minority of the religion. There’s always going to be warped people, but that doesn’t mean an entire faith is.
Communism can work quite well. However, the Soviets totally f***ed it up. In the novel Animal Farm, the pigs are caught changing the Seven Commandments laid out in the beginning. For example, what had been “No animal shall kill another animal” was changed by Squealer to “No animals shall kill another animal without reason.” This bit showed a mini-allegory of Stalin’s Great Purges, where he killed anyone who didn’t agree with him. The pig Napoleon does the same, and slaughtered former comrades on the spot. The animals who were on the farm weren’t bad, it was just how Animal/Communism was carried out.
Its quite the same with religion.
A view of yours on religion: “If its misinterpreted, its misinterpreted by everyone.” You could not have hit farther from the truth. Does anyone on here support sexism, racism, abortion clinic abolishment, homosexual abolishment, or the abolishment of other religions on here (the latter being besides you)? Their religion does not matter. For a lot of people today, their religion is second to their morals.
And just to let you know, people who call themselves Pagans can have a twisted view of it, too.
The reason why there’s violence is because people can’t agree, not because of their f***ing religion. We could all live quite peacefully if we’d just see eye to eye on things. And even if there wasn’t religion, there’d still be disagreement. You’re effort to condone the abolishment of Christianity and Islam is only contributing to the cause.
“…going down to their level”, indeed, you are. I know you don’t think Christians don’t bash other religions and beliefs. By being blatantly disrespectful of these religions, you are going down to their level. Just because you’re not killing people doesn’t mean you’re doing it right. You’re still telling people to not be Christian (as mentioned before), you’re still telling them that they’re wrong and you’re right. You’re taking their actions and fitting them to your beliefs, minus the murder.
208-Hahaha…that just about made my day…which is kind of sad, when you think about it…no offense.
200- Atheism: there is no f**ing greater power, so deal with it or get out.
Would everyone just STOP FIGHTING AND BEING SUCH MEANIES???? Gosh.
211- Thats a rather strange metaphor. BTW, communism can’t work because large groups of people need beaurocracy, and beaurocracy goes against the ideals of communism. But thats not he point.
213- Hmm, I don’t think all atheists would take such a hostile view. I would take the tone down a noch.
And take the abortion debate to the hot topics thread, not that it hasn’t been done to death there too.
205 (FS) – “With no religion, there is no extremism.” What ever happened to your radical athiest views where you were all like “religion is bad all you are WRONG and IDIOTS and DESERVE TO DIE!!11!!” (actually, it’s still fairly the same, except now it’s “religion except mine is bad you all SUCK!!!11”)? That seemed fairly extreme to me, although I suppose you could argue that athiesm is but another religion..
189 (Piggy – and also all other Catholics/Christians) – could someone explain the holy trilogy to me? I’ve never really gotten how it fits in a “monotheistic” religion, and also how it’s different from a “polytheistic” religion such as Hinduism..
Actually, why is Hinduism considered polytheistic in the first place? The Hindus (Hindi?) I know consider it monotheistic..
I think it is time for a poll:
1. If you follow a religion, what is it, and is there a god/goddess/nature spirit/etc (in other words, what do you worship, what’s your diety’s name, etc?)
2. What are the characteristics of that diety/dieties? Male/female? Does he/she/it have a form, a body, etc, or is it just like a force?
3. Is the deity kind/fierce/strict/loving/etc?
4. Any special powers? Did he/she/it create the world? Etc
209-sometimes it’s not the girl’s fault…
216- do you mean the holy trinity? the father, son, and holy spirit? that is three parts of one God. a little confusing, maybe piggy can explain it better. I went to a catholic school for K-4th grade so I should be able to, but I forgot a lot of what I learned, but I’m glad that I went, not only because of small classes and smarter kids, but that I learned about Catholism, it’s so different and I have some catholic friends so we can talk and I’m not completely “out of the loop” It’s also pretty cool that I took first communion there even though I’m protestant.
anyway, I got a little off topic, oh well
DAMMIT, NOW I’M REALLY HECKA MAD!!!
205 – FRIGIDSYMPHONY YOU JUST DON’T GET IT, DO YOU???
Excerpts from 205:
“Christianity too, is built and expanded on violence and bloodshed.”
“What I want is a public apology for all the damage done by christianity and islam over the years.”
FROM WHOM DO YOU WANT A PUBLIC APOLOGY??? FROM ALL THOSE DEAD CHRISTIANS WHO DON’T PROPERLY UNDERSTAND THE POINT OF THEIR RELIGION???
SHUT UP!!! SHUT UP!!! SHUT UP!!! SHUT UP!!! JUST SHUT UP!!!
GEEZ, EVERYBODY, JUST STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT.
216 – Sure I can explain the trilogy.
The trilogy is made up of three parts, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They’re all the tied together, but they seperate sometimes.
The Father is the god who created everything, who talks to the prophets, and other stuff.
Later in 1 AD he had a son, called Jesus through Mary. (Mary is generally called the mother of god, but we don’t worship her, we just really respect her.) Jesus preached the good news starting in AD 30, but some Jews thought he was breaking tradition and had him crucified.
The Holy Spirit is not really anything, it’s sort of a “spirit” that is inside each of us to help resist the devil. It appeared physically at the Transfiguration and Pentecost. It usually takes the form of a dove (just like Jesus takes the form of a man).
St. Patrick summed it up this way. “Look at the clover. There are three leaves, yet they all are one. This is the same with the trinity.)
I’m not forcing you to belive this stuff, but this is what Christianity says.
By the way, thank you for asking nicely.
217- oops, yeah, trilogy x_x
218 – wait, so does Jesus==God==Spirit? And also what’s Transfiguration and Pentecost?
lol, now you can see exactly how much attention I paid when I went to a episcopal (sp) preschool..
209- The only people who would be dumb enough to have sex as teens and get pregnant from it aren’t smart enough to think before they act. That’s why they’re doing it at all. And, as 217 said, what about rape?
Lizzie’s poll:
1. If you follow a religion, what is it, and is there a god/goddess/nature spirit/etc (in other words, what do you worship, what’s your diety’s name, etc?)
We worship all penguins. Just penguindom in general. Maybe it’s like ancient greece, where the gods faught but didn’t act like it in front of the mortals, and I just don’t know it yet, but penguins are sacred.
2. What are the characteristics of that diety/dieties? Male/female? Does he/she/it have a form, a body, etc, or is it just like a force?
Flippers, wearing a tuxedo, omnipresent and taking over, lives in Antarctica.
3. Is the deity kind/fierce/strict/loving/etc?
They watch over their worshippers and grant something when they’re in a benevolent mood, but they’re preoccupied with taking over the world.
4. Any special powers? Did he/she/it create the world? Etc
My personal sub-belief/creation myth is that in some future time, the penguin-owned time machine will/has go/ne back to just before the “big bang” with hot glue, duct tape, popsicle sticks, paperclips, string, rubber bands, and other useful stuff like that, and created the world. Now, humans are the “dominant species”, so the penguins are taking over. Look around, and you’ll see them all around you. If I worship them, they might grant some of my requests with their powers.
The Transfiguration
In AD 30, when Jesus was baptized, a dove came down from heaven and perched on his head. And a voice from heaven said, “this is my beloved son, with whom I am well pleased.” All three trinities were there! Very rare.
193–
Robert, let me define SIN for you:
Sin is when you know something is wrong, know you’re doing it, but do it anyways. you can’t sin without knowing it!
sheesh
also, i have another point to add to my mini-rant about the media/priests thing: Satan goes after priests most of all. priests are like shepherds for God’s flock. if he gets the shepherd, the sheep will be easy to get. priests are human!
I’d like to take a moment to explain (briefly) transubstantiation:
when Mass begins, the bread and wine are, well, just bread and wine. after the consecration, they are the physical body and physical blood of Jesus Christ. how? god can become anything. he can become a dove, he can become a human, so why should changing into the appearance of bread and wine be hard for Him? god becomes bread and wine, but remains fully God. this is how Jesus was fully God and fully man. God just took the appearance of a human being because he loves us dearly.
May God bless you and change your hearts this holy season of Lent.
166: Well, hopefully you got the message, despite my bad spelling. You should have been able to.
The Poll
1. If you follow a religion, what is it, and is there a god/goddess/nature spirit/etc (in other words, what do you worship, what’s your diety’s name, etc?)
Christianity. Yes, there is a god.
2. What are the characteristics of that diety/dieties? Male/female? Does he/she/it have a form, a body, etc, or is it just like a force?
Commonly reffered to as male, but said by some to have no gender. A part of it has a body, and part of it is a force.
3. Is the deity kind/fierce/strict/loving/etc?
It’s kind, a little strict, sometimes fierce, but very loving.
4. Any special powers? Did he/she/it create the world? Etc
“He” created the world. He also has the power to forgive sins, send people to heaven/hell, and do physically impossible things on earth when people have enough faith.
222 – I really admire your calm way of posting about Catholicism. I’ll have to be more like that.
*feels very ashamed of yelling*
The Poll
1. If you follow a religion, what is it, and is there a god/goddess/nature spirit/etc (in other words, what do you worship, what’s your diety’s name, etc?)
errr… I don’t exactly follow any religion right now though in the future I may convert to judaism.
2. What are the characteristics of that diety/dieties? Male/female? Does he/she/it have a form, a body, etc, or is it just like a force?
I believe in a neither male nor female spirit of caring that connects the world.
3. Is the deity kind/fierce/strict/loving/etc?
Loving.
4. Any special powers? Did he/she/it create the world? Etc
err… just the ability to, if people care enough, see the world through a different/better light and help the spirit/force thing within them keep them going.
I think that should help explain what I believe in. If anyone has any religions that match my description of beliefs, please tell me about them.
217, 220-Well, we weren’t talking about rape, were we? Elizabeth asked if we could expect 14-year-olds to have the ability to think before they act…rape wasn’t mentioned.
The Poll:
1. If you follow a religion, what is it, and is there a god/goddess/nature spirit/etc (in other words, what do you worship, what’s your diety’s name, etc?)
No, I don’t. The closest I come to following a religion is figuring that everything happens for a reason, but I’m not sure why that is, anyway.
2. What are the characteristics of that diety/dieties? Male/female? Does he/she/it have a form, a body, etc, or is it just like a force?
NA
3. Is the deity kind/fierce/strict/loving/etc?
NA
4. Any special powers? Did he/she/it create the world? Etc
NA
5. Do you believe in this religion/deity because you want to, or because you were raised that way or influenced in some other fashion? If the latter, what influenced you?
I wasn’t raised with any religion, and have actually switched religions quite often. Some were because of my friends, but mostly it was my interest in them.
(225),
Quakers, Unitarians, and Baha’is all have beliefs similar to what you describe.
The difference between Asatru and Christianity and Islam is that we don’t have religious extremists in powerful positions all across the world, past or present. We don’t influence millions of peoples lives just because we’re all around and they grow up in a society entrenched with religion. And Asatruars wouldn’t misinterpret Asatru because it is distinctly AGAINST violence and hatred. It’s extremely easy to misinterpret the concept of Jihad, for example, or self-flagellation.
Btw, my switch from radical atheism to Asatru occured when I decided I needed a spiritual aspect to my life, and I chose a religion that has a rich cultural history, good moral ethics and involves environmentalism and anti-nazism.
The problem with Christianity and Islam is that they’re so embedded in todays world that people find it hard to look critically at something that’s been around for so long and that dictates their lifestyle.
Also, you seem to miss the point. I am against the religions and concepts of Christianity and Islam, not the innocent, brainwashed practicioners of it. It’s not your fault if you live in a society where it’s the norm. So I fight to right the wrongs of the past and to fix the religious problems of today. Paganism is coming back, the old ways should return. If we need spirituality in our life, then lets make sure it’s not from a religion that tells us to kill non-believers and homosexuals (Christianity) or that tells us that women are inferior (Islam).
And why isn’t anyone on my side? I mean, sure I’m a master debater, but hey, alone against the christian coalition (joke)? Come on, DLOD, my viking friend from denmark, back me up!
Question: If the main reason that gay marriages aren’t legal is beacuse ther’re against the Christian’s Gosd’s will, doesn’t the seperation of church and state mean that they should have a chanc to be legal? Sorry if this seems out of place, but I was just wondering.
The Poll
1. If you follow a religion, what is it, and is there a god/goddess/nature spirit/etc (in other words, what do you worship, what’s your diety’s name, etc?)
I’m Jewish. I guess I worship God.
2. What are the characteristics of that diety/dieties? Male/female? Does he/she/it have a form, a body, etc, or is it just like a force?
Don’t know about the male/female thing. Same goes for form, body, or force.
3. Is the deity kind/fierce/strict/loving/etc?
Probably all of those.
4. Any special powers? Did he/she/it create the world? Etc
Hmmm, well God created the world, according to Judiasm.
Special powers… not sure. Umm, the power to make bushes burn?
229~ i agree. seperation of church and state should make them legal, but maybe that means they cant go to church. idk im confuzzeled
229: In THEORY, there is a seperation of church and state in america. Yeah, right, fat chance. The country is run by religious extremists. You know Bush claims that God talks to him and tells him what do to? American government is just so full of hypocritical
it sickens me. When I’m 18 and have to choose between swiss or american citizenship, guess what I’m choosing.
bush has some problems to begin w/ but now that i know that he should b elected president of the looney bin. ur swiss?? thats cool! im canadian living in america and refuse to become american
229- Exactly! That’s what I’ve been saying for ages! See my rant about it on some semi-recent hot topics thread.
didn’t exactly see the last question:
5. Do you believe in this religion/deity because you want to, or because you were raised that way or influenced in some other fashion? If the latter, what influenced you?
err… I was raised catholic but I came up with my own beliefs. Now I don’t know what I am.
234-I added it.
235 added what?
220- and just because they’re dumb doesn’t mean their lives should be changed so drastically, (for the worst) maybe this experience would teach them something
228- the RELIGION doesn’t tell us to kill anyone, it actually says to KILL NOBODY! it was the interpreters of the religion that wanted to kill the people (ex:crusades) If everyone followed all the 10 commandments and act like Jesus did, the world would be just about perfect. What can you think of that Jesus did as a bad example? because he is the example that we as christians were given to follow
229- ya, I agree. can anyone quote where in the bible it says gay marriage is wrong? I don’t remember it, but I’d like to look it up. Some things have to be taken in context and some just don’t apply to modern life. Like, “you can’t wear a garment made of two different types of material”, and “you may take slaves from a neighboring country” these are from Leviticus, in the old testament but we just can’t go around living by all these rules and it hardly seems necessary.
232- I’ve never heard of Bush saying that, but w/e he says a lot of dumb stuff
232- where did you get your information? if it wasn’t a direct quote, i can see talking directly to god being easily confused with praying to god, which is perfectly normal thing for leader to do if faced with difficult desicions. prayer relaxes people.
237- Very well said. even if i don’t entirely agree with the details
During the three yrs I went to Catholic skool, I had to attend Mass every Friday. And I had religion class as well (of course)…The stuff I learned during those three yrs is exactly what made me want to find a new religion to try and follow. I’m going to list the reasons, and it’d be nice if any of you guys could tell me whether things are different in other forms of Christianity.
1. During Mass, the priest always talked about fearing God, fearing God’s wrath…etc. I just didn’t think that was right. Your religion should make you feel good, not scare you! Oh, and I went to church w/ my Lutheran friend once…and the priest’s fearing-God sermon thingie there was about 20x more intense! Jeesh, are Lutherans just melodramatic like that?
2. Then there were my hardcore Christian friends that told me that I will go to Hell if I don’t get baptized. That was harsh.
3. I know this has been mentioned numerous times, but, in the Bible, women are inferior to men. And I don’t like that!
1. If you follow a religion, what is it, and is there a god/goddess/nature spirit/etc (in other words, what do you worship, what’s your diety’s name, etc?)
actually, i don’t. everything thats happened before that was considered a miracle happened because we don’t understand a certain aspect of nature or science.
2. What are the characteristics of that diety/dieties? Male/female? Does he/she/it have a form, a body, etc, or is it just like a force?
N/A. if i did worship a diety, it would be both male and female (yin-yang), it would be a force, but occasionally come 2 earth in human/creature form.
3. Is the deity kind/fierce/strict/loving/etc?
N/A. if i did worship a diety, it would basically see how we humans do on our own, and intervene if things got out of hand, or too violent and desparate.
4. Any special powers? Did he/she/it create the world? Etc
N/A. the world/universe/everything was created by perfectly un-godly forces.
239 – very good points. especially the part about sexism. i’m not female, but i still face sexism sometimes. (don’t we all?)
239 – When I was younger, I misunderstood that too. Turns out, when Hebrews said they “feared” God, that really meant they were faithful and respectful of him. Don’t ask me why this is, it’s just what my congregation’s priest told me.
May God grant you all soothing peace from this sinful world on the upcoming holy day of rest.
(I know that’s the typical thing a poor, innocent brainwashed simp would say, but I like the way it calmly concludes a post.
)
239 – Even some of the highest people in the Bible, such as Moses, Abraham, David and Noah, all sinned pretty badly. But God forgave them and used them to help him! God never says that women are inferior, and the people in the Bible were probably just wrong about that aspect of life. Nowadays in the post-Jesus era we Christians know better than to be so sexist. I don’t know anything about the Koran.
237- I agree with your points, there. Christians do not follow everything the Bible says word for word, why should they do that for only some things and not others?
Another Question: Where exactly did the Bible come from? I know about the 10 Commandments, but what about the actual Bible?
In 8th grade, my history teacher was telling us that Paganism wasn’t a “real” religion, beacuse it didn’t have any text, like the the Bible f the Torah(did I spell that right?). My friend got really mad because she’s sort-of Pagan, and said that no, it was a real reigiona nd text didn’t have anything to do with it. The teacher was like “Well what would you know about it?” so she said “I’m Pagan.” The teacher got sort of emmbaresed and droped the subject after that.
Hmpf. I can give you the exact extracts from the bible that tell outright to kill the following:
Homosexuals
Women who toe out of line
Non-believers
People who work on rest days
Blasphemers
Honestly, the bible is a lot deeper and scarier than just the 10 commandments.
245 – christianity is so violent and wrong. what’s wrong with homosexuality? perhaps a 3rd of all creatures in the world are homosexual, but we’re not going to go around killing manatees and worms and thousands of other species just because they do their thing with animals of the same sex. for the second one, it’s just more proof that the bible is extremely sexist and prejudiced. and, how can the bible talk about peace and friendliness when it’s says 2 kill anyone who doesn’t believe in christianity. and why should people who work on the Sabbath be killed? what’s wrong with working hard to make a living on sunday? that’s just messed up.
what are blasphemers?
246: People who blaspheme. And I’ve been saying this for ages!!! Christianity is messed up!!
I’m reading a lot of strong opinions on this thread, but not much information.
There’s a new book on world religions, just out, that Musers might want to look into: Religious Literacy: What Every American Needs to Know–and Doesn’t, by Stephen Prothero. I haven’t seen it yet, but the reviews sound very good. Here’s Amazon’s description.
Wondrous Treatment Of Women In Islam
[Sorry, FS. Cutting and pasting someone else’s 2,000-word anti-Islamic diatribe from an unspecified website does not further the discussion. Anyone who wants to read it may google the title. –Robert]
236-The 5th question…I thought it should be there, so I added it.
There are two real sources of holy truth, and neither expresses itself to us in words. One is the universe around us, which is a manifestation of the underlying divine essence. The other is the universe within us, passed down from our ancestors as instinct, emotion, innate predispositions, and perhaps even racial memory. By combining these sources of internal and external wisdom with the literature left us by our ancestors, we arrive at religious truths. This living spiritual guidance is better than any dusty, dogmatic “holy book”, whose writings are often so ambiguous that even clerical scholars disagree and whose interpretations change with the politics of the times.
The Asatru Alliance
FS- how can you say that the koran is the true nature of the muslim religion if your own religion states that holy books are dusty? if it is in fact as unreliable as you say it is, you shouldn’t be quoting it. the majority of practicing believers in any religion that i know of don’t look to their scriptures for the literal meanings of most things these days, partly because of how old they are.
The Asatru Alliance is referring to the Bible, which is a lot more ambiguous than the Koran. It’s hard to misinterpret sentences like:
II/223: Your women are a tilth for you (to cultivate). So go to your tilth as ye will…
IV/34: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other.. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them.
IV/15: (For women) If any one of your women is guilty of lewdness …confine them until death claims them.
IV/16: (For Men) If two men among you commit indecency (sodomy) punish them both. If they repent and mend their ways, let them be. Allah is forgiving and merciful.
XXIV/6-7: As for those who accuse their wives but have no witnesses except themselves , let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies…
That doesn’t really leave much room for debate and misinterpretation. I’m pretty sure the AA is making a deliberate shot at Christianity and the Bible.
251- Most of the radical muslim groups DO look at the Quora’n for direct guidance. It’s alway’s the religious extremists who take things literally.
Hey, why is my post still being moderated????? Let it through! There’s no bad language or insulting!
244- the bible came from prophets, history, the apostles, etc. God did not write any of it, but Jesus was quoted fairly often in the new testament. A lot of the bible, (especially the old testament, but not only), is just records of things that happend. It is historically true. but the things written by the prophets were often what they heard god telling them, which isn’t anything anyone could prove.
255-not all of the bible is historically true. the entire book of genesis was simply a story in effort to explain the begining of time. its message is real, but the story itself isn’t. the story of jonah is also imaginary but with a real message.
I highly recommend catholic.com as a wonderful source for any questions you may or may not have.
257 – thas a weird name you gots there.
245 – Then post em. I want to see them.
I don’t think the Bible wants to see everyone who works on the Sabbath killed. That’s not what Christians do.
And anyway, a lot of that stuff is pre-Jesus. It’s the Jewish religion that established all those rules. Then Jesus came along and “broke” many of them because they were taken to such a degree of insanity.
For instance, the Jewish law said that people shouldn’t work on the Sabbath. Well, the high priests took that REALLY SERIOUSLY. They forbid helping anyone in need, since that was working, along with cooking food, eating with utensils, and even walking. The only walking you were allowed to do was walk to the Synagouge to pray and back. I mean, that’s not what the origional rule was about. The origional rule meant to be translated as, “Don’t work at your jobs on the Sabbath, just rest and spend the spare time praying.” It did not mean lying down on your beds with strict orders not to move or do ANYTHING at all. In fact, the Jews were often taken over because the High Priests told them not to fight on the Sabbath, so armies just marched in on Saturday and had a grand old time. (I’m not trying to insult Jews here, their high priests just misinterpreted stuff a bit.)
Then Jesus came along and broke tradition. He stopped all those ridiculous laws. So, FrigidSymphony, if you post where the Bible says that stuff, I bet it will be in the Old Testament. And even if it’s in the New Testament, we may have just mistranslated that stuff. Christians still don’t know certain things about their faith. I can explain the members of the trinity, but I can’t explain why they all are one. It’s a mystery.
256 – Yes, that’s very true. The book of Tobit is not true either, but it has a message behind it. Many historians also belive that the book of Esther is fictitious. But that doesn’t mean it’s a story with no point…the book of Esther has meaning!
Have a wonderful day of rest on the day of the week where we Christians remember that Jesus rose from the dead after saving us all.
Out of curiosity, why do you believe in God?
Out of curiosity, what is a God, exactly?
Religion basically tells people what to think about life. It hands people morals and says do things our way or suffer forever once you die. Followers dont have to think about their morals. They dont have to think if what they’re doing is good or bad if their religious leader said to do it.
I was talking to a christian friend (she’s not even very religious) about the 04 presidential elections:
Her: Kerry is funny looking and wierd.
Me: Whatever, he’s not Bush and he’s not the religious right so he’s the better candidate.
Her: My whole church is voting for Bush. My pastor says Bush is good.(Depending on how he said this, her church should lose its taxfree status…)
Me: time to find a new friend
I know many religions arent this blatant, but all religions (barring maybe Quakers, UUs) tell people what they should and shouldnt do, what is right and wrong. So while I tolerate religion I definetly have less respect for most religios people.
241: You’re absolutely right. I don’t believe that women are only meant for housecleaning and popping out kids, but I don’t believe all men are lazy idiots, either! I think a lot more highly of a religion if neither gender is considered more superior.
242: That’s interesting.
243: That’s interesting as well. If you ever have the time, could you maybe post a passage of the Bible that says something about how men and women should be treated equally? Or tell me where one is (I don’t have a Bible, but I could probably borrow someone’s)?
244: LOL. Why would you need written records to have a religion, anyway?(For example, how difficult is it to memorize “And harm you none, do what you will.”? That’s the single rule that Wicca is based on)
248: Thanks for posting that! There’s also a book like that for younger kids (I read it in sixth grade. It doesn’t have a lot of information in it, but it’s a pretty good book) called Ways We Worship.
*drags self up to the keyboard, exhausted*
Ahhh…….just got done……with crazy……religious discussion……ack!
*drops dead*
252 – are those from the bible or Koran?
This thread is one reason I hate society.
215– I’m well aware how Communism was meant to be, but, as I said, they messed it up. I know it wasn’t meant for large groups. I’m just saying, it (like Christianity) been misinterpreted, as in Animal Farm. But that doesn’t mean the system is bad.
228– You wonder why nobody takes your side…
And I think we all know how f***ed up America’s government is. Do you think we’re proud?
Really, I don’t lose my temper very easily, but this is really getting me pissed.
266– I concur.
FrigidSymphonySupremeMuser2OOO says:Umm……
267- Yep.
257-not as weird as yours
270 – is not. c the Museblog Statistics thread.
Do you guys have any idea how pointless this argument is?
Nobody’s even talking about their religions anymore. This thread is becoming a ghost town thread.
All threads do. We’ll return to this topic sooner or later. Meanwhile, maybe it’s just as well that the excitement here has died down for a while.
STOP FIGHTING! Don’t you guys realize that the reason the whole world’s fighting is because they’re different? I’m not going to name names but *coughfrigidsymphonycough* some people are being very mean. Can’t we all just get along? We’re all Musers here.
Sorry, I was gone for three days. and post 268 is NOT mine.
Anyway, yes, the parts of the bible that are outright violent are in the old testament. But you know what? Nietsche is a lot more able at condemning Christianity for my exact reasons than I am. Go read the Antichrist, it’s brilliant.
And it is my personal opinion that the major organized religions, Christianity and Islam, are responsible for most of the damage and hatred in the world. If everyone were pagan we’d be a lot better off. We’d have a cleaner planet, for example.
can anyone tell me where in the bible it says gay people are wrong and all the other things people have said that the bible says? I really don’t know where this is… and it’s kinda bugging me, especially the part about gays, I don’t necesarily doubt it’ there, It’d just be interesting to see exactly what it says and what context it’s in…
and if nobody knows where it says that, that kinda ends the validity of that point
This topic is covered in detail on the Canadian Religious Tolerance website. The site also includes a summary of New Testament passages relating to homosexuality. The site seems balanced and informative.
For those not allowed to browse the Web, the New Testament passages it covers are Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; 1 Timothy 1:9-10; and Jude 1:7.
274 – Truer words were never spoken.
276 – You’ve already said that several times. And I thought you were against all religion and god and whatnot. You now seem to be promoting pagans.
I’ve read the Bible and the Qur’an/Koran, and to tell you the truth, I found a lot more images of peace in the Qur’an. I read them both a few years ago, as a self-project to understand Islam vs. Christianity (prompted by the Iraq war), and I remember finding more images of peace in the Qur’an.
280-but the qu’ran is incredibly sexist.
and it is being horribly misinterpreted by lots of people right now.
*poof* *disappears for the weekend*
It’s been horribly misinterpreted by everyone since the birth of Islam. In Saudi Arabia just recently (did I say this already?) a woman was gang-raped by five men, and she’s facing prison for having had intercourse with men who were not her husband. How screwed up can you get???
I promote paganism and satanism as religions because they are among the few that are morally and ethically correct. I found out that I sort of needed a spiritual side to my life.
283 – wait. so, this woman was gang-banged by five guys, and now she’s facing prison for having someone force her to have sex with them? thas just
wrongseriously f***ed up. i mean, if those b***ards had done that in america, they’d be in prison for life! god.what i meant by “god” at the end of my last post was something like “gawd!”, like an expression of exasperation.
283 – That’s pretty messed up and low. What I’m wondering is, did the men recive any punishment?
232 (FS)- What’s your source, the National Enquirer? And if you live in Switzerland, how would American citizenship be an option for you anyway?
184-eh. satanism doesnt fit with my morals.
“4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.”
’11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.”
not morally right in my proverbial book.
289: the guest can leave whenever he wants to. It’s about keeping people in your ‘lair’ respectful.
and if someone abuses of your privacy in open territory, well, he’s got it coming to you. It’s certainly better than “I will kill you if you draw Muhammed”.
287: Nope, nothing at all.
288: My mom’s american and I have an american passport and citizenship as well as a swiss one.
284 – You promote satanism? Isn’t that a religion where you get to sin as much as you want, and feel good about it?
I was at camp last summer, and these people were saying like, you should worship satan because without satan there would be no need for god or jesus, that’s a little wierd because it makes sence but it also makes no sence at all, if you think about it…
291: according to satanism the so-called ‘sins’ are natural human instincts that should be indulged in rather than have you live in abstinence. However, since over-indulgence makes you feel bad, the true satanist is careful not to overstep boundaries.
293 – That’s the thing. If I sinned, then I would feel bad for making others feel bad…
294: That’s the whole point, if you sin you don’t make others feel bad, but the Church says you should feel guilty. Guilty for what? For having perfectly natural human urges, going from sexual ones to gastronomical ones? What the Church defines ‘sins’ are just that, natural human needs.
295- killing, stealing, and telling lies are sins, and they do make others feel bad and you should feel guilty for doing them. They aren’t natural urges or human needs
296. They really are natural human urges, if they weren’t, people wouldn’t do them…
I’m not passing judgement on whether or not they’re good, I think it probably depends on the situation, just saying that there is nothing abnormal about them.
296: and what about gluttony, sexual desire, that stuff?
298 – Desire for food is a reasonable thing to have, and pretty much all humans have it. Until quite recently, food was scarce for common folk so desire for food was normal. When they got a square meal, they stuffed themselves, unsure how long this meal would last them. Recently, however, food is in overabundance in some industrialized places, so desire for food has become obsolete. But people still have it, so they eat too much.
Gluttony is being greedy with your food. And that’s what Americans and some other people in other countries are doing: eating too much food when other people don’t have enough.
Sexual desire, or lust, is because that thing feels good. People want to be happy, so if that thing makes them happy, they will go for it, not thinking about what it might produce.
The whole point of that thing origionally was to reproduce! Sex is not for human enjoyment, it is for maintaing the population of the species!!! Back a while ago, people weren’t abusing that thing because too often it caused a big annoying heap of stuff for the femenine person. But now, some people just have it whenever because it’s possible to remove what it produces!
Look at it this way: two people are making babies just because they like the procedure. But they don’t like the babies so they just get rid of them. That’s messed up, dude!
299: But what about condoms? Or are they evil and the devils tools?
300 – What are condoms?
300- Not explaining that. Didn’t you take health class in school? But this proves there’s a flaw in however you were taught. No offense or anything. I’m not trying to insult you or your religion or anything like that, it’s just a point that you should at least be informed about alternatives to abstinence, even ones the church and pope disapprove of.
301, not 300.
301 – it’s “a thin rubber sheeth worn on a man’s [thingy] during sexual intercourse as a contraceptive or as protection against infection”. I think there’s also female condoms, but they don’t work as well.
And dear, you really should learn about this stuff – if you don’t want to become pregnant, or if you don’t want to get STDs, you need to know how to prevent it..