Demand appears to be widespread, so let’s give this topic another try.
Patience, Please
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Demand appears to be widespread, so let’s give this topic another try.
Ummm….. First post?
Religion….. CAN WE PLEASE KEEP IT CIVIL THIS TIME?????????????? I mean, we don’t all have to agree, but we can at least give each others thoughts and beliefs some respect and have an interesting and pleasant discussion.
I’m an atheist and my best friend is Lutheran, and we are able to have a talk without biting each others heads off, so it’s possible to do the same here. The decision is yours.
In Danish schools, religion is taught in the schools. The name is misleading: the classes are very simular to sunday school classes. Is this a problem? Should Ramadan be a school holiday alongside Christmas?
Has anyone read The God Delusion?
Is it hypocritical to wear a scarf/veil/headdress as a muslim and still wear mascara?
1 (ViEoM)- To answer your questions with my own opinions:
1. I certainly hope so.
2. If they’re basically Sunday school in public school (private school is a whole different tuna cake), then they are a problem. No idea whether it’s possible to do anything about it; I don’t know the Danish law regarding establishment of religion, and if Danish law makes the state explicitly Christian, then the classes are, unfortunately, perfectly legal. If they also have an establishment clause, then someone should be suing right about now. More info on the situation?
2. Ramadan is too long. It’s like taking off all of Lent. I do think that Eid at least should be a school holiday, though.
3. No.
4. I don’t think so, but I confess to ignorance of Muslim law so idk my bff Vixen.
Religion is the opiate of the masses. And the opium for that matter.
Opium is an opiate.
Plz to be contributing to the discussion rather than trying to annoy people.
Yay, a new one! *showers GAPAs in torrents of virtual choklit*
1- Hopefully / Depends on the law there, I suppose, but I don’t like it / No, or at least not in this country; any religious holiday shouldn’t really be a school-holiday. Yes, I’m aware that Xmas was made an official holiday… / I have no idea…
3- Sounds familiar, who said that?
We read a bit of Paradise Lost in English today [I’ve already read the entire poem, and I’m in love with it] and it was as amazing as ever.
“Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven.”
I adore that line so much. Great epic poem.
Should we get to a specific discussion topic, or just ramble for now?
I’m not Christian, but I believe that Jesus and Mary Magdelane, were married and had a daughter (supposedly named Sarah) who was born after was Christ crucified.
I enjoy looking for religious symbols. Mainly ones that relate to
Mary M. and the sacred feminine. Such as the pentacle, which consists of the original symbols for male and female combined:
Despite Hollywood’s images of the pentacle as a symbol of devil worship, the pentacle is actually a symbol of the goddess Venus.
The ancients were shocked to realize that once every four years, Venus traced a perfect pentacle shape across the sky.
The symbol for our modern Olympics, was almost the pentacle, but was changed at the last minute, to 3 rings.
But what do the pentacle’s two triangles mean?
The triangle facing upward, is the original icon for male, and is called the blade. It’s basically a crudely drawn penis. It represents aggression and manhood, and is still used on modern military types of things (but I don’t know much about that).
The inverted triangle, is the original icon for female, and is called the chalice. It represents the shape of a woman’s womb.
Which brings me to why I (along with many others) believe that Jesus and Mary M. were bound in holy matrimony.
You see 1st of all, back in those days, it was wrong for a Jewish man, not to be married. Therefor the idea of Jesus as a bachelor makes no sense.
Also in one of the many banished Gospels, Mary M. is referred to, as “The companion of The Savior.” The word companion in those days, meant spouse.
Lastly the rose is a symbol for Mary M. and womanhood. It always has been, although it has changed a bit over the years.
If you think you don’t know at least some of this, you’d be wrong. You’ve heard of it. As has almost everyone on earth.
It’s just known to most people, as The Holy Grail.
To find out a heck of a lot more, read
The Da Vinci Code – By Dan Brown.
And then watch the movie, which features one of my favorite actors, Tom Hanks.
Well that’s all for now.
5 (SM)- You bring up a good point about religious holidays, actually. It’s possible to argue religious holidays in school as establishment of religion. It might be better to let kids have excused absences on important religious holidays (not all of Ramadan/Lent/whatever), but then the atheists and Daoists and such have to go to a lot of school.
Karl Marx, I believe.
I might like Paradise Lost better if my English teacher didn’t have the world’s biggest crush on Satan. (Important words being might, teacher, crush, and Satan.)
Is anyone interested in having a “World Religions” thread about Huston Smith’s book? We had one *ages* ago (over a year ago, I think), but we haven’t had one since because there wasn’t much interest.
5- Marx.
7- What?
hmm…we need another MBers religion list.
6-i had no idea. about the pentagram. coolness.
10-who are you, and how do you know about the old religion threads? heh. if yer new, sorry, if yer not, i havent been on in a while. :p .
on religion– its bad. period. end of story. well, not really, but its late and i have school.
*looks through old thread* ah, the memories. huh. well, i cant finda list to go off of, so ill start one. feel free to add.
1-about the religion class. from my cousin who lives in denmark, thats not quite true. he seems to learn quite a bit. (and not just Lutheranism.)
Atheist
Dark Duke of Darkness
agagabagabag( i think)
Yes. And C++DM.
The paradox of christianity and islam:
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Perhaps the only reason l respect other religions more is because they’re smaller. Hinduism handles size just fine, though. l don’t think the problem is christianity. l think it’s its size. lf all religions were of near equal size, there wouldn’t be any problems, and christianity is full of good rules. The problem is sleazy, sleazy people. Most christians bend and twist the rules. Most MBers are the exeption, being sane and reasonable. There are some exeptions to even this, though.
l have a request to all followers of abrahamic religions: when l say oh my god, don’t tell me not to say the lords name in vain.
1. l have the right to say whatever l want, and l’m already going to hell anyway.
2. Unless l’m saying “Jeezus!” or “Frickin’ Yaweh!” l could be talking about brahma, ahura-mazda, zeus, shiva, vishnu, or any other god.
Oh, and to E2MB, boy scouts has no awards for atheism, one for buddhism, one for zoarastrianism, one for hinduism, one for islam, and awards for every christian sect concievable. lt’s not like those other religions don’t have different sects.
In my experience, when people find out that you are a Christian (if you are a Christian):
6 out of ten will not care.
1 out of ten will be mildly interested.
1 out of ten will respect you for it.
1 out of ten will hate you for it.
1 out of ten will think that’s stupid, but not be bothered.
Since I’m being emo, apathetic and depressed right now, I really have nothing to say, but I do have a question: should one capitalize the word god(so it would be God) when you’re talking about the Christian god, even if you don’t believe in Christianity?
I think the word god should be capitalized when it’s being used as a name, no matter which religion you’re talking about. I always capitalize when talking about the God of Christianity, but that’s because I believe in Him. I don’t know if I expect anyone else to do that.
14-Boy Scouts has no awards for Athiesm because the pledge mentions God. That’s basically the only rule, other than being a boy.
16-Yes, because it’s a proper noun. Even if it’s a fictionally character (which, by the way, I don’t think it is) it’s a name.
11 (dlod)- I really don’t want to go through this again. But religion is not inherently bad. It’s possible to use just about anything as an excuse to do bad stuff. You can start persecuting people in the name of Mimi, but that doesn’t make her evil or bad. It does make you look like a bigoted idiot.
13 (ag)- I agree with you on the point that religion isn’t in itself bad (see above), but I don’t think that size is a problem. Look at Buddhism: a large proselytizing religion that has somehow managed never to kill people for not believing in it. There’s a difference in culture between most Christians and most Buddhists, true, but that alone doesn’t account for the huge discrepancy in deaths. I think it’s about the Christian/Jewish/Muslim view that you can only have one religion as opposed to the Asian freedom to mix religions.
A bigger religion does mean more idiots, though.
16 (RoH)- -gives hug and chocolate- I do think you should capitalize it if you’re referring to the Judeo-Christian God, as opposed to any old god or a generic god of the “oh my god, did you see what happened on Museblog?” school. I’m…well, I’m not Christian, if that matters.
150-that seems…accurate.
well now. i’m Christian. can I make one request: can no one, please, try to convince me why God does not exist. or why christians are bad people. because that’s what they do at my school. the way i found that out was when people were saying that Christians were homophobes and hated gays and what not. so i said “um excuse me, not all christians think that way. i for one am christian. i am not a homophobe. you are generalizing.” and then they went to talk about some religion made up by some sciencefiction writer.
anyways, double post, iknow. but I think that judaism and christianity are interesting religions. I realy want to learn more about hebrew and jewish customs. I also want a bible and a book of saints. i have a childrens bible but i want the actual bible. I just think it’s a neat part of my history and i want to learn more about it. as for hebrew and what not, i think that Judaism is realy cool.
Here’s the religions list from the previous thread(s). I have it in a word document, but I haven’t updated it in awhile. Let me know if you’re not on it/something is wrong!
Muslim
FantasyFan?!?!
Jewish
Sphinx
elassë~adael
Quintessentia
groundhog22
hypermoocow
ha
FairyDragon
Reform
yellowsharpiemarker
Julieb
Reconstructionist
Kiki The Great
Anata~ChinTsu
Conservative
Copper Bigfoot
Brave Sir Robin
Zyviva
Orthodox
Phoenix
Jessie
Jewish Atheist
Lizzie
emmatheduck
Christian
cHill
Donaldo
MontgomeryGurl
Ninja For Christ
Eccentric the Afterthought
Kagcomix
Lutheran
Queen-o-random
Capricious
Catholic
Kiara
Romana2
Ebeth
davidude
Piggy the Proud Catholic
Eastern Orthodox
Sunrunner Bramblewood
Dot Keet
Quaker
Zallie
elassë~adael
Red Tailed HAWK
Liesolotte
Purple Panda
Taiwan Hippo Fan
Protestant
book_addict
VanZepplin
Otzi
Mormon (LDS)
Skwerl Overlord
Veralidaine
Zyka
Methodist
grnqween2011
Presbyterian
Elizabeth
Baptist
jammin j
Hindu
♥ shriya siolashrwa jeffica ♥
Buddhist
100% cotton
Agnostic
Sweet Melpomene
curious and questioning
SupremeMuser2000
Lady Visala of Reverie
Wiccan
emogrl
FairyDragon
Mixed Bag of Random Beliefs
Pentatonikk
Gwendolyn of the Eastern Seas
Otzi
Sand Demon
Axa
elassë~adael
curious and questioning
Musketeer Number 5
Sweet Melpomene
Druid Reconstructionist
Millie
Atheist
Skipper Nancy
johnkerry
Darth Yoda
Lizzie
penguini
violindino
Yup
Bobbyjkl
First Sorceress
Shadowkat
curious and questioning
Potato Chip
Cat’s Meow
philosophical.bunny
Spiritual Atheist
The Bev
Harmony with short red hair
Radical Atheist
Queenie J
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM)
Necromancer
Dark duke of darkness
Asatruar
Frigid Symphony
Green Cow
curious and questioning
I am an atheist. but, unlike agagabagabag, i have no problems with other peoples religions, but, i do understand what agag is getting at. buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut… i think agag can be pretty insulting when it cames to talking about religion. once there was this kid at a farmers market and he was selling tangarines or something and talking about how they were “sweeter than my imaginary girlfriend” and giving out samples and being funny. there was this woman there and she was talking to him and then asked if he was a christian, and when he said yes, she said something like good, or its a good thing that you are. i think thats where it goes a bit over board…
Okay, that post was really long. So, for the religions list, I’ve changed it from a “list” (where every name is below the previous one) to having the names separated by commas. Because then it is easier to see and doesn’t take up an excessive amount of space. I’ll post that one next time…
23-prebytarian. that’s me.
not another religions thread. oh dear. where’s fridgey when we need a good mudfight? i miss him…
lookit, some christians are complete whacks. don’t get me wrong, most everyone, religious or non-religious, is pretty cool. the crusades is a topic frequently discussed on the other thread, and i just want to kill any questions before they arise.
The Crusades: series of holy wars taken on by the catholic church. the pope promised absolvement from sins if you went on these wars. they were only intended to capture the holy city of jerusalem, but they turned into a series of nine wars over the period of 200 years. most christians today condemn the crusades because they were carried out in ignorance, and not in the “love your neighbor as yourself” attiude encouraged today. i believe they were not sanctioned by my God(notice the caps) in the least.
the other highly debated topic was the good of religion as a large group. DdoD and fridgey strongly supported the view that any organized religion did more harm than good to society as a whole. i believe that religion in itself is good. it is the person who believes the religion who determines whether to further his/her religion for good, or become a radical and hurt other people when furthering his/her religion. in the example of the crusades, it was not the religion, but the leader, Pope Urban II, who used his religious power over others for bad purposes.
the other very highly debated topic was the subject of a christians views on homosexual. although it varies person to person, most chritians condemn the practice, not the person. my veiw is that homosexuality is wrong. i do not agree with men seeking men, or women seeking women. i believe amrriage is between one man and one woman. now, most people would say “he’s a bigot! he hates gay people!”. but that is not the case. i hate the practice, not the person. just to keep it clear. here is the verse in the bible. “For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. LIkewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful and recieving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due” -Romans 1:26,27. New King James version.
anyway, thats all i could give off the top of my head. i am a baptist christian, and i believe that Christ the son of the one true God came to earth and died for the sins of all mankind. i beleive that by having faith in this fact and accepting Jesus Christ as your savior in God, you can and will go to heaven when you die. and thats the basis of my spiritual life.
27-What’s wrong with love? Who’s to say who one kisses? Love and lust aren’t choices. lt’s like resenting the earth or the universe.
god, l’m a hippie.
hmm. i quit the pastafarians… srry people. but yea.
‘i beleive that by having faith in this fact and accepting Jesus Christ as your savior in God, you can and will go to heaven when you die. and thats the basis of my spiritual life. :)”
…and converselY, if you dont, you go to hell? just a question.
“the other very highly debated topic was the subject of a christians views on homosexual. although it varies person to person, most chritians condemn the practice, not the person. my veiw is that homosexuality is wrong. i do not agree with men seeking men, or women seeking women. i believe marriage is between one man and one woman”
hmm. unfortunately, that doesn’t work. because you belive that gays should not be allowed to marry. and whether or not you hate homosexuals, being denied the right to marriage is discrimination, and very bigoted. you may not hate gay people, but if you believe that their sexual orientation is wrong, and abomination, and will cause them to go to hell, its a bit ahrd to be nice to them. i assume.
also, you said how organized religion could not be a bad thing. i realize that it can not be a bad thing, in certain cases, what makes it a good thing?
and good fer you on the crusades. unfortunately, it is only one of many atrocities committed in the name of jesus, God, etc. pretty much every European conquest was “for the good of the Natives, to save them from hellfire.”
to conclude like you did, morals based on rationality and sense are the best ones. ….and follow those morals. that is the basis of MY spiritual life.
*happy to supply the mudfight.
6-I hate to burst your bubble, but The DaVinci Code is a fiction book. Fiction. It’s just a story made up by Dan Brown.
PGD
16- Yes, just like when you capitalize Zeus. Zeus = god; Christian deity = God.
Can we discuss something other than controversy? Arguing won’t really get us anywhere, will it?
Why does everyone believe whatever it is they believe?
And if anyone responds to anyone’s response to this with something mean, I’ll have to find Gary and sic him on you.
11 – does the name help?
29 – interesting. what’s the basis for you not tolerating homosexuality? i mean, besides the bible. i find that many people think it’s wrong just because it’s so different and strange in modern-day society.
i am atheist/mixed bag of random beliefs. i find that many religions are interesting and seem to have some evidence behind them, but evolution still seems to be the most scientifically supported way that humans came into being. just my opinion, though.
eh agag, who you call “apphole” is creating a new religion based upon not believing in gods or spirits….. umh but i think he said that just to try and get me to join, but most of what he was saying came out as a bunch of gibberish
31- yeah, most of it is fiction *coughalmostallofitcough* but it is parts of it are facts, like the thing with the pentacle and what not (read this a looong time a go so i’m probably rusty on the facts) but yeah. alot of it is fiction and based on very shakey “facts”.
32- well, i believe in Christ and God and stuff because i was taught about it when i ws very young. Church was a big part of my life when i was little. well it wasn’t a big part but we went every sunday morning and on christmas and mabe easter. but yeah, i grew up with christianity. The thing about my Christianity (yes i know, i’m protestant or what ever it’s spelled but i’ve been away from church so long i kind of have my own beliefs i guess) is that I beleive in a very loving and forgiving God. My God loves everyone, no matter who they are or what they believe in. I also believe in both evolution and that God created us. They mix together in my brain in ways i can’t realy explain but i do believe in both. Although i am christian I don’t know that much about Christianity. I was too young when i went to church to actualy understand what they were talking about (besides, i spent most of my time in sunday school where we did stupid crafts that were slightly connected to the bible). I wish i knew more about my religion. The thing about christianity is that it’s sort of….. i don’t know…. a concept or just an idea people follow where as being Jewish is also being part of a very rich culture. My friend who is Jewish doesn’t believe in God but she is very jewish and loves the clebrations and the food and stuff. In Christianity, if you don’t believe in God you can’t really be critsian because God is what chrisitanity revolves around. i wish in many ways that Christianity was closer to Judaism because when I think about it, Christianity is rather bland. But Judaism is full of life .
Oh, cool!
I love discussing religion. Is anyone here an atheist? Or maybe an agnostic? I’m one of these three or maybe a mix:
1. An apathetic agnostic, meaning I don’t think any gods exist – and who would bother believing in them anyway?
2. A mild agnostic, meaning I don’t think gods exist – but maybe you know more than me…?
3. An atheistic agnostic, meaning I don’t believe there are gods – and it’s stupid to even think about it, because there’s no possible way it’s true.
I’m really not sure, so I guess you could say that I’m agnostic about my own agnosticism (a- meaning without and -gnosis meaning knowledge).
Anyone else have any views on agnosticism or atheism? Please reply.
/gradster(1)/
I’m a Christian. Like Kagy said, I believe in God, who loves everyone, and wants them to love him back.
You may say that evolution has scientific evidence, so it must be real, as well as the big bang. Fine. But God was behind it all. He was the one who drew the master plan, made it happen.
I’m being confirmed tommorow! I’m very excited.
Oy gevalt.
Okay, really, I’m not Jewish. That pun was unintended.
And so was that one.
Anyway, moving on, I agree with Her Froodiness Penty-chan about most everything stated so far, so I’ll save you some reading with that one.
I might be a mild agnostic. Probably am.
There’s logic and loopholes for everything, so I try not to become partisan when discussing those greater forces (of lack thereof) that have shaped so much of human history and conflict in some way or another.
If we could all just get along, that would be lovely. My extended family is a mixture of Jews, Christians, agnostics and atheists in varying degrees. We all bop along pretty well when we get together. I find it fascinating, actually. It’s like watching a religious microcosm, but one where they all respect each other and love one another. That is, when we aren’t squabbling about more mundane things.
On gays, lesbians, etc.: they’re just people. If they’re not being uncivil to you, just drop it. I admit I am a bit uncomfortable when I first meet a homosexual person and they are extremely open about it, but I try to make my final opinions on the person based on whther they’re a decent human or not.
Good to see you’re still alive, MG!
Here’s a paradox that a lot of people have wondered about over the years, including me.
If God is all powerful and all good (as most major religions seem to believe), why does evil exist?
I’m not trying to be argumentative or to disparage people’s beliefs, I just want to know what they think on the subject.
93-I’m not sure what religion I am anymore. I was a Catholic for the first eight years of my life, but that’s because I was really too stupid to contradict anything I was taught by my parents. I guess I’m still Christian, because I belive in Christ, but I’m not any specific Christian. So just put me in Christian Other.
I love being in the Other columns in lists. Plus the fact that I have nothing against Homosexuality. Which goes against everything my parents belive. They were ranting to eachother about prejiduce against them because of their jobs (which is N/A, so don’t ask) and then they started ranting on about how stupid Homosexuality is. Hypocrits. 
{end rant}
Can anyone explain to me how the FSM religion even WORKS?? I mean, I read the Wiki article, but it dosn’t explain how someone can even belive that a flying spaghetti moster exists. DDoD?
34- l was going to get to that. People like him don’t actually believe in those religions, and make them like games. lt’s not respectful to the ancient greeks.
1 – The Da Vinci Code too seriously. It’s *based* on a few facts, like the existence of the Priori of Sion and stuff, but it’s a novel.
23 – I call myself “happy atheist.”
36 – I’m atheist in such a way that I think it’s ridiculous and illogical to believe in any higher power, but I still respect people who do, and I sometimes even wish I could believe in God, just to have some sort of constant in my life, but I know I wouldn’t be able to stand my own idiocy if I did.
My dad was raised vaguely Christian. His parents just took him and his brothers to whatever church was closest when he was young, but now he’s atheist. My little brother is atheist, and my mother is Buddhist. I have friends who are all sort of Christian, Jewish, atheist, and loads of other stuff which I’m not going to try to keep track of.
As for homosexuality, I wrote a letter to a guy via YouTube a while ago. He had said his reasons that homosexuality was wrong were that 1) it’s unnatural, 2) it looks disgusting, 3) “for the believers among us (personally i’m atheist): the bible forbids it”, 4) it’s a mental problem that can be cured, and 5) gay guys still like feminine appearances despite being attracted to men and are therefore largely pedophiles.
Relevant part of my reply:
“Anyway…I disagree with you about homosexuals. I bet that’s a *huge* surprise. Here I present *my* reasoning.
“1) Whatever we do is natural because we came up with it on our own and *naturally*. If an alien told a guy that anal sex on another guy was fun, with no other guys on Earth coming up with it on their own, I would agree with you that it is unnatural. However, humans are perfectly capable of thinking of gay/lesbian sex themselves, and many other species also thought of it. Naturally. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality#Homosexual_behavior_in_animals) If we were really biologically intended to *never* do this, why would there be a combination of biological and environmental factors that produce homosexuality? Besides, most of us are bi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality#Psychology), so how unnatural can it be if most of us exhibit it (albeit alongside heterosexuality) at some point.
“2) This reason was completely an opinion. You cannot *prove* that it looks disgusting, nor can you *prove* that it is not equal to affection between heterosexuals. Since it is an opinion, which is the opposite of a fact, it is definitely *not* a valid factual argument.
“3) Just for the record, I’m atheist, too. *Very* atheist. The Bible is an important piece of literature for our civilization, but it is fiction. After all, it wasn’t faxed down from Heaven. Humans wrote it, after all.
“4) Have we seen any people effectively “cured” of homosexuality? Hmm, it appears that there aren’t (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality#Behavior_modification). In fact, those “studies” that exist appear to be elaborate bluffs lacking in any real proof.
“5) For this one, I’d just like to know what your source is. Any definitive studies available on percentage of the gay population that exhibits pedophilia? And there are plenty of straight men who find young children erotic. Also, rather more girls are reported as abused than boys (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_molestation#Epidemiology). However, I am forced to admit that could likely be because homosexuals are a minority and because sexual abuse by women on boys is under-reported, as mentioned in the article.
“Some of my counter-arguments might have come out as offensive, aggressive, flippant, or rude, and I apologize if they did. They weren’t meant that way, simply as statements arguing against your perspective, hopefully not too emotionally. Actually, “counter-arguments” feels like a misnomer, as the word “argument” is too often associated with an emotionally charged, somewhat irrational disagreement. While I *do* disagree with you, I would very much like to have a calm and rational discussion with you….
“P.P.S. For the one about curing homosexuals…if you look at the methods, you cannot fairly blame them for resenting the attempt to “cure” them….”
I also added a P.P.P.S. that stated that was a bit explicit for kid-friendly website, so I’ll summarize: For number 2, many heterosexual people homosexual content and for number 5, “…molestation and rape are about power, not attraction.”
39- God creates us but he doesn’t guid us forcefully. he sets an example but whether we follow or not is our choice.
42- good argument on your side, all the arguments against homosexuality are completely stupid.
I don’t really know what I am. I was Catholic, but I’m not really certain about that, now… Well, actually, I don’t think I believe in God.
It’s kind of funny that I’m saying this on MB, because I don’t think I’d say it anywhere else… (this anonymnity is so…freeing? sometimes, when it’s not abused.)
I am an atheist. I don’t believe in any gods/goddesses/supreme forces that drive life as we know it. I believe in equal rights for everybody, including homosexuals/bisexuals. I believe in the Big Bang and evolution as scientific fact.
I have a theory about religion. In my opinion, religion was originally a way for ancient people to explain natural phenomena. That’s why I’m a huge fan of Greek mythology: if they wanted to explain why the sun rose or why a particular flower existed, they’d make up a story about it involving their gods. And the story wouldn’t be just that the god/goddess made something happen, end of story. They got creative. But modern religion, to me, seems to be just about doing what you’re told, and not really thinking about it. Also, in my opinion, modern religion is a method that people use to accept the inevitable fact that we are all going to die. If you’re good in life, you’ll be fine after you die. Now, I don’t understand how people can believe that, when nobody has actually come back from the dead, and said, “Hey, this is what happens after you die”. So, overall, in my mind, religion is an outdated concept. People can have morals and a code of ethics without being told that a particular god wants them to.
I hope I didn’t offend anyone, because that certainly wasn’t my intention.
That’s basically all I can think of right now, but I have a few questions for religious people:
1) Actually, PC already asked this in post 39, so I’m not going to type it again.
2) What does it feel like, believing that there is something out there?
3) If you weren’t your current religion, what religion do you think you would be? If I weren’t an atheist, I’d probably be Buddhist.
“Demand appears to be widespread, so let’s give this topic another try.”- I thought I had been the only one asking for a new thread….
45- 2) i dunno, i guess it’s comforting in a way.
3) if i weren’t christian i would totaly be jewish.
i knowthere are MBers who read scary-go-round so, does anyone remeber chapter twelve : bad religion? where Ryan is taken into the old womens religion of twistedness. kinda based on christianity but modernised and with the church led by that guy…Wayne…. what i think is funny about it is that all those people believe and no one questions wayne.
I’m lutheran, AND I believe in evolution.
I think that *one* of /god’s/ day’s in probably thousands in human years. They just made the “seven days” thing, to break it up into chunks.
I don’t know if I believe everything that the bible says, but I believe in what it means. You know?
23- remove me from everything but mixed bag of random beliefs.
I don’t quite see the point in treating homosexual/bisexual people any differently. I just respect everyone for who they are.
I’m… I dunno. maybe I’ll type up some of my random beliefs on here when I’ve more time.
48-I’m presbytarian, and I beleive pretty much what you say. hehe. we should make our own church. hehe.
39-have you ever seen albert einstein’s favorite quote? ‘Is there cold in this world?”yes”no, cold was a term to describe the absence of heat. Are there shadows in the world?”yes”no, shadow is a term to describe the absence of sunlught. Then is there evil in the world?”yes.”But evil is the absence of good, if it is there the absence of something created, God did not make it.’
something like that. his teacher asked the very same question.
39- I think I said something on the last thread about free will. Well, it basically said that God wants us to have free will, so we can chose to follow him, not have him chose to make us follow him. I mean, would you rather have friends who had to be friends with you, or friends who chose to be friends with you? So, he let us have free will. And we choose the wrong things a lot of the time. But it doesn’t matter, as long as we repent. We’re going to choose the wrong thing most of the time. Ever since satan tempted Eve, we have to live with the presence of evil, because of satan.
(50) Snopes.com says the story about Einstein is false. See www. snopes. com/religion/einstein.asp .
Here’s another thought-provoking question for those of you who are religious.
Why is God good?
52-hmmm.
53-‘cuz otherwise he couldn’t make stuff, only destroy it?
53- why would he be evil? mabe he’s neutral, but if you were going to create something *coughtheworldcough* would you want everything to screw up or whatever. just put yourself in God’s place for a second and think about it.
55- Interesting.
39-God is all powerful (yes) and all good (yes) but he does not have the power to take away free will. Everyone has free will and can do what they choose, as long as it goes by the laws of science.
42-Well argued. Or discussed. I know some lesbian girls and it’s obvious that it’s not their choice to be lesbian.
45-It feels safer, knowing that someone is watching you, but in a good way. You might argue that’s just an illusion to make us feel better, but it’s different. Seriously. And I would probably be athiest if I wasn’t Christian.
*lurkity lurks*
49- That would be good. I’m considering doing that, as I fit under random/agnostic/atheist.
Says Fridgey: Get a petition with enough signatures, and I may post again.
Just passing on the message.
People always get riled up when I say this, but I have never been to church before, because there isnt one in my area that shares my parents beleifs. I forgot the name of the kind of church they wanted to go to, but its like, an hour away from here. I dont really know what I beleive since I havnt been to church, but I dont like it when people try to force their beleifs on to me, and I dont like it when they hold it against me that I havnt been to church, because for one its not really my fault, and two, everyone has different beleifs. So as I conclude this post, please dont get mad or all riled up and just relax, and think about it. I dont want anyone to be mad at me, you guys are awesome. It always pains me when religion comes up anywhere, because I am so afraid of people being shocked and frowning upon me, people that I loved being around. So once again, relax, calm down, please, and remember who Dancergirl13 really is!!!
# 31 Piggy
I don’t know if you’ve ever read the book, but almost everything in there, except for the actual characters, is based in fact.
At least most of it is.
The idea that it was supposed to be a woman who carried on the church, and not Peter as so many believe, is very appealing to me.
As Vixen in the Eyes of the Moon said, we don’t always have to agree, but we can share our opinions.
And my opinion, is that The Da Vinci Code, is the most well researched and practically factual book I have ever read.
One thing the book claims (although it’s possible that this is just a claim) if you’re ever in Paris, is that Mary M. (The Holy Grail) currently rests underneath the upside down pyramid at The Louvre. Which also has a much smaller right-side up triangle underneath it. The blade and chalice.
It makes sense to me, because while certain poems in the book may be made up, as I said, it is based in fact.
The Holy Grail neath ancient Roslin waits
The blade and chalice guarding over her gates.
Adorned in master’s loving art she lies.
She rests at last, beneath the starry skies.
If I ever go to Paris, that is one of the first things I plan to do. Because even though I’m not Christian, Mary M. holds lots of appeal to me.
39-Did God Create Evil?
———————————————————————-
The university professor challenged his students with this question:
“Did God create everything that exists? ”
A student bravely replied, “Yes, he did!”
“God created everything?”, the professor asked.
“Yes sir”, the student replied.
The professor answered, “If God created everything, then God created evil since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are, then God is evil.”
The professor was quite pleased with himself and boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth.
Another student raised his hand and said, “Can I ask you a question professor?”
“Of course”, replied the professor.
The student stood up and asked, “Professor, does cold exist?”
The professor replied, “Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?”
The students snickered at the young man’s question.
The young man replied, “In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat.
Everybody or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body, or matter, have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (- 460 degrees F) is the total absence of heat. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no heat.
The student continued. “Professor, does darkness exist?”
The professor responded, “Of course it does.”
The student replied, “Once again you are wrong sir. Darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light, we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton’s prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn’t this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present.”
Finally the young man asked the professor. “Sir, does evil exist?”
Now uncertain, the professor responded, “Of course, as I have already said. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man’s inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.”
To this the student replied, “Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God.
God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God’s love present in his heart. It’s like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.”
The professor sat down.
—————————————————————————
i’m pretty sure they just said this was albert einstein. i really don’t know. but i found it quite interesting.
Muslim
FantasyFan?!?!
Jewish
Sphinx, Quintessentia, groundhog22, hypermoocow
FairyDragon
Reform
yellowsharpiemarker, Sobriquet
Reconstructionist
Kiki The Great, Anata~ChinTsu
Conservative
Copper Bigfoot, Brave Sir Robin, Zyviva
Orthodox
Phoenix, Jessie
Jewish Atheist
Lizzie
emmatheduck
Christian
cHill, Donaldo, MontgomeryGurl, Ninja For Christ, Eccentric the Afterthought, Lady Cinnamon Moon, Beavo
Lutheran
Queen-o-random, Capricious
Catholic
Kiara, Romana2, Ebeth, davidude
Piggy the Proud Catholic
Eastern Orthodox
Sunrunner Bramblewood, Dot Keet
Quaker
Zallie, Red Tailed HAWK, Liesolotte, Purple Panda, Taiwan Hippo Fan
Protestant
book_addict, VanZepplin, Otzi, Kagcomix
Mormon (LDS)
Skwerl Overlord, Veralidaine, Zyka
Methodist
grnqween2011
Presbyterian
Elizabeth, gimanator
Baptist
jammin j
Hindu
♥ shriya siolashrwa jeffica ♥
Buddhist
100% cotton
Agnostic
Sweet Melpomene, curious and questioning, SupremeMuser2000, Lady Visala of Reverie, Gwendolyn
Wiccan
emogrl, FairyDragon
Mixed Bag of Random Beliefs
Pentatonikk, Gwendolyn of the Eastern Seas, Otzi, Sand Demon, Axa, elassë~adael, curious and questioning, Musketeer Number, Sweet Melpomene, Drops of Jupiter
Druid Reconstructionist
Millie
Atheist
Skipper Nancy, johnkerry, Purple Panda, Taiwan Hippo Fan, Darth Yoda, Lizzie, penguini, violindino, Yup, Bobbyjkl, First Sorceress, Shadowkat, curious and questioning, Potato Chip, Cat’s Meow, C++darkmage, Drops of Jupiter, The Raven of the Hawk
Spiritual Atheist
The Bev, Harmony with short red hair
Radical Atheist
Queenie J
Happy Atheist
philosophical.bunny
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM)
Necromancer
Asatruar
Frigid Symphony
Green Cow
curious and questioning
(61) Comments 50 and 52 refer to this same story.
what’s quaker? and what’s green cow?
The Green Cow religion was invented by curious and questioning, as she explains here.
I pretty much agree completely with Skipper when she posted on the Religions, v.2007.1 thread, saying:
“1. Atheism does not mean you don’t believe anything . It means you don’t believe that there’s a God, or a supernatural force of any type. I am an atheist. I believe lots of things.
2. I don’t believe there is a God. I don’t believe in Heaven or Hell. Therefore, I don’t feel bad about letting God down or being a bad wife, as you put, nor do I worry about going to Hell. Because Hell doesn’t exist.
3. Just because I don’t believe in God, doesn’t mean my heart is a black hole. It doesn’t mean I think life is pointless. Why do I need to spend my life waiting for what comes after in order for it to be meaningful? Living is the meaning of life. Living, being happy, and (most importantly to me) making life better for all living things are the most important things. I see no necessity for belief in God.”
hmm…Purple Panda, i am no longer sand demon, so you can take that off the list. you can either put me down under Mixed Bag of Random Beliefs, or Radical Atheist. actually, just Radical Atheist. i have no religious beliefs, but i can respect other religions. i will not, however, respect people who attempt to spread their religion forcefully or think that people who don’t believe in their religion are going to hell. what do i care anyways? i don’t believe in hell anyhow. and people that hate homosexuality because of their religion. i have absolutely no respect for that type of person.
62- Why am l not there?
Why is this thread not in most recent posts?
(69) Look at the list on another thread.
33- i believe you meant to write 28….?
35-fairly incompatible religions though…in case you were thinking about defecting. the jesus thing, and whatnot.
40-noone actually does belive. its a religion meant to demonstrate taht the idea of a god is ridiculous. any argument that religious people (abrhamic(spelt wrong lol)) use to explain why god has to exist, can be used better by the FSMs.
58-*signs* i have a demonoid invite….
61-see 52. lol
Muslim
FantasyFan?!?!
Jewish
Sphinx, Quintessentia, groundhog22, hypermoocow
FairyDragon
Reform
yellowsharpiemarker, Sobriquet
Reconstructionist
Kiki The Great, Anata~ChinTsu
Conservative
Copper Bigfoot, Brave Sir Robin, Zyviva
Orthodox
Phoenix, Jessie
Jewish Atheist
Lizzie
emmatheduck
Christian
cHill, Donaldo, MontgomeryGurl, Ninja For Christ, Eccentric the Afterthought, Lady Cinnamon Moon, Beavo
Lutheran
Queen-o-random, Capricious
Catholic
Kiara, Romana2, Ebeth, davidude
Piggy the Proud Catholic
Eastern Orthodox
Sunrunner Bramblewood, Dot Keet
Quaker
Zallie, Red Tailed HAWK, Liesolotte, Purple Panda, Taiwan Hippo Fan
Protestant
book_addict, VanZepplin, Otzi, Kagcomix
Mormon (LDS)
Skwerl Overlord, Veralidaine, Zyka
Methodist
grnqween2011
Presbyterian
Elizabeth, gimanator
Baptist
jammin j
Hindu
♥ shriya siolashrwa jeffica ♥
Buddhist
100% cotton
Agnostic
Sweet Melpomene, curious and questioning, SupremeMuser2000, Lady Visala of Reverie, Gwendolyn
Wiccan
emogrl, FairyDragon
Mixed Bag of Random Beliefs
Pentatonikk, Gwendolyn of the Eastern Seas, Otzi,
Sand Demon, Axa, elassë~adael, curious and questioning, Musketeer Number, Sweet Melpomene, Drops of JupiterDruid Reconstructionist
Millie
Atheist
Skipper Nancy, johnkerry, Purple Panda, Taiwan Hippo Fan, Darth Yoda, Lizzie, penguini, violindino, Yup, Bobbyjkl, First Sorceress, Shadowkat, curious and questioning, Potato Chip, Cat’s Meow, C++darkmage, Drops of Jupiter, The Raven of the Hawk agagagabagabag zepata
Spiritual Atheist
The Bev, Harmony with short red hair
Radical Atheist>/b>
Queenie J
dark duke of darkness
Drops of Jupiter
Happy Atheist
philosophical.bunny
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM)
Necromancer
Asatruar
Frigid Symphony
Green Cow
curious and questioning
wow. html tags took forever. and surprising number of weird religions (pagans, quckers, LDS, wicca.) weird.
awww man. and i screwed them up anyway.
36 (gradster)- You’re an atheist, not an agnostic of any sort. Atheists don’t believe that any gods exist, regardless of reason, whereas agnostics don’t know whether there is a divine or not.
32 (SM)- Oh, Gary’s been camping out in my ceiling, sharpening various bits of metal. Do you want him?
I don’t have a logical reason for most of my moral beliefs (the ones that would fall under the heading of religion were I religious); they’re just things that I am absolutely certain are right. These include things like “don’t steal, don’t kill people, be honest, be kind, love thy neighbor, be tolerant” and others in the same vein–beliefs that are rooted deeper in my psyche than I am conscious of.
My stances on more specific topics that religion is often applied to stem from my core beliefs: therefore, I don’t worry about gods but have no prejudices against other people doing so, I don’t kill people (except over the Internet), I think that people have the right to make their own choices and love who they love.
I wasn’t raised religious at all, which is probably at least a little relevant; if I had been, I probably would have turned out with the same basic beliefs but a different stance on the divine. I don’t think this is a big deal, but to someone else it might be.
Basically, I have my own personal “religion,” defined specifically for me by my set of morals. I don’t like saying that I’m spiritual rather than religious because I don’t think I am; I don’t bother myself with gods or souls or afterlives. I follow my belief system because I truly believe it is right and because I want to be a good person. That’s shouldn’t be something exclusively spiritual or religious at all.
Thank you, SM, for making my brain hurt. I’ll probably turn that into a better, longer essay at some point.
By the way, does anyone remember that religion thread of yore where several of us took a quiz on what organized religions most closely matched our personal beliefs? Linkprz?
(71, 40) Specifically, the Flying Spaghetti Monster was invented as an argument against teaching religious creation stories in science class. The idea was that once you drop the requirement for scientific evidence, there’s no real reason to exclude any creation story — even an obviously silly, made-up one.
(73)
I think the Belief-o-Meter is at belief.net.Sorry. It’s called the “Belief-O-Matic,” and it’s at beliefnet.org.
That doesn’t work well. lt called me a unitarian universalist.
75 (ag)- It does that to everyone who’s vaguely tolerant and/or secular. Don’t worry your pretty little head about it. The test is designed to tell you what religions most closely match your beliefs, not which ones you actually follow.
My results:
1. Unitarian Universalism (100%) […how am I not surprised?]
2. Secular Humanism (98%) [I am pretty much a secular humanist, so I guess this is accurate.]
3. Liberal Quakers (87%) [What do liberal Quakers believe in, besides nonviolence? Moar research necessary.]
4. Theravada Buddhism (82%) [Okay, I kind of expected this.]
5. Neo-Pagan (71%) […whut.]
6. Nontheist (70%) [Yes, more or less.]
7. Taoism (70%) [woot.]
8. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (69%) [Sure.]
9. Mahayana Buddhism (66%) [I kind of expected this to be higher but I don’t know much about Buddhist sects so it’s possible that Theravada is much better for me.]
10. Jainism (56%) [Well, I don’t kill things.]
11. New Age (55%) [Negative associations cloud my judgment.]
12. Sikhism (50%) [But how do they feel about women?]
13. Orthodox Quaker (48%) [Hm. Nonviolence is good.]
14. Reform Judaism (45%)
15. Hinduism (40%) [I am so not ascetic it ain’t funny. And I think the caste system and karma are baloney. Otherwise I like Hinduism is awesome.]
16. Bahá’à Faith (37%)
17. Scientology (33%) [Ouch.]
18. New Thought (31%)
19. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (25%) [Oh god.]
20. Seventh Day Adventist (22%)
21. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (20%)
22. Islam (20%)
23. Orthodox Judaism (20%)
24. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (19%)
25. Eastern Orthodox (15%)
26. Roman Catholic (15%)
27. Jehovah’s Witness (14%)
Hm. Basically as expected
My Results:
1. Unitarian Universalism (100%)
2. Theravada Buddhism (96%)
3. Secular Humanism (96%)
4. Neo-Pagan (91%)
5. Liberal Quakers (89%)
6. Mahayana Buddhism (77%)
7. New Age (77%)
8. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (71%)
9. Taoism (69%)
10. Reform Judaism (63%)
11. Nontheist (62%)
12. Jainism (61%)
13. Orthodox Quaker (57%)
14. Scientology (57%)
15. New Thought (54%)
16. Sikhism (50%)
17. Bahá’à Faith (45%)
18. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (42%)
19. Hinduism (42%)
20. Orthodox Judaism (28%)
21. Seventh Day Adventist (25%)
22. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (23%)
23. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (23%)
24. Islam (21%)
25. Jehovah’s Witness (15%)
26. Eastern Orthodox (8%)
27. Roman Catholic (8%)
Surprising, actually. Atheism isn’t even in my top ten.
2,3,4,6 and 9 also seem like they might be fitting for me…But I will never be a part of any type of Christianity.
Did anyone read my post?
Hmmm. I believe in some parts of Wicca and tribal religions, so I could be Wicca or mixed. Test thingy:
1. Neo-Pagan (100%) (definetely expected this)
2. New Age (94%) (yup)
3. Mahayana Buddhism (86%) (don’t know much about it, but i like Buddhism)
4. Liberal Quakers (84%)
5. Theravada Buddhism (84%)
6. Unitarian Universalism (84%)
7. Jainism (79%) (sounds like me)
8. Secular Humanism (67%)
9. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (66%)
10. Hinduism (63%)
11. Reform Judaism (56%)
12. Taoism (56%)
13. New Thought (55%)
14. Orthodox Quaker (55%)
15. Sikhism (54%)
16. Bahá’à Faith (51%)
17. Scientology (51%)
18. Nontheist (40%)
19. Orthodox Judaism (36%)
20. Seventh Day Adventist (31%)
21. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (29%)
22. Islam (24%)
23. Jehovah’s Witness (24%)
24. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (19%)
25. Eastern Orthodox (17%)
26. Roman Catholic (17%)
27. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (17%)
This was actually pretty accurate for what I believe. I like this thing because it doesn’t push any certain religion on people.
1. Liberal Quakers (100%) [that works]
2. Unitarian Universalism (98%) [yay! UU!]
3. Reform Judaism (95%) [yay! Judaism!]
4. Neo-Pagan (91%) [hmm…]
5. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (80%) [that works]
6. Bah�’� Faith (79%)
7. New Age (79%)
8. Mahayana Buddhism (76%)
9. Sikhism (74%)
10. Jainism (69%)
11. New Thought (66%)
12. Scientology (65%)
13. Islam (64%)
14. Orthodox Judaism (64%)
15. Orthodox Quaker (64%)
16. Theravada Buddhism (64%)
17. Hinduism (60%)
18. Secular Humanism (56%)
19. Taoism (51%)
20. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (46%)
21. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (41%)
22. Seventh Day Adventist (38%)
23. Eastern Orthodox (33%)
24. Roman Catholic (33%)
25. Nontheist (32%)
26. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (31%)
27. Jehovah’s Witness (21%)
that one’s actually from May 06
the one I took today:
1. Neo-Pagan (100%)
2. Unitarian Universalism (96%)
3. Liberal Quakers (91%)
4. New Age (90%)
5. Mahayana Buddhism (83%)
6. Theravada Buddhism (81%)
7. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (80%)
8. Secular Humanism (77%)
9. New Thought (73%)
10. Reform Judaism (69%)
11. Scientology (68%)
12. Taoism (67%)
13. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (60%)
14. Orthodox Quaker (59%)
15. Jainism (57%)
16. Bahá’à Faith (53%)
17. Hinduism (53%)
18. Nontheist (50%)
19. Sikhism (47%)
20. Orthodox Judaism (41%)
21. Islam (32%)
22. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (32%)
23. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (30%)
24. Seventh Day Adventist (28%)
25. Jehovah’s Witness (18%)
26. Eastern Orthodox (16%)
27. Roman Catholic (16%)
I think i did this before, but the results have probably changed a bit anyway. so here ’tis…
1. Unitarian Universalism (100%)
2. Liberal Quakers (94%)
3. Secular Humanism (92%)
4. Neo-Pagan (81%)
5. Theravada Buddhism (80%)
6. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (79%)
7. New Age (75%)
8. Taoism (72%)
9. Mahayana Buddhism (71%)
10. Orthodox Quaker (65%)
11. Nontheist (64%)
12. Reform Judaism (62%)
13. New Thought (61%)
14. Scientology (57%)
15. Bahá’à Faith (52%)
16. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (51%)
17. Jainism (47%)
18. Hinduism (40%)
19. Sikhism (37%)
20. Orthodox Judaism (33%)
21. Seventh Day Adventist (30%)
22. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (26%)
23. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (26%)
24. Islam (24%)
25. Eastern Orthodox (15%)
26. Roman Catholic (15%)
27. Jehovah’s Witness (14%)
i love how my technical actual religion is second to last…
Here’s mine. I think it’s different from the one I took last year, but I’m not sure. I’ll go back and check.
1. Secular Humanism (100%)
2. Unitarian Universalism (90%)
3. Nontheist (82%)
4. Theravada Buddhism (76%)
5. Liberal Quakers (67%)
6. Neo-Pagan (53%)
7. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (45%)
8. New Age (37%)
9. Taoism (33%)
10. Mahayana Buddhism (30%)
11. Reform Judaism (21%)
12. New Thought (15%)
13. Scientology (15%)
14. Jainism (15%)
15. Orthodox Quaker (14%)
16. Bahá’à Faith (7%)
17. Hinduism (7%)
18. Jehovah’s Witness (7%)
19. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (5%)
20. Seventh Day Adventist (5%)
21. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (0%)
22. Eastern Orthodox (0%)
23. Islam (0%)
24. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (0%)
25. Orthodox Judaism (0%)
26. Roman Catholic (0%)
27. Sikhism (0%)
..I’m 0% on the last 7. That’s interesting, but not surprising.
Here are last year’s results, done on May 25th, 2006
1. Liberal Quakers (100%)
2. Unitarian Universalism (97%)
3. Mahayana Buddhism (87%)
4. Reform Judaism (86%)
5. New Age (81%)
6. Theravada Buddhism (80%)
7. Neo-Pagan (79%)
8. Bahá’à Faith (77%)
9. Jainism (77%)
10. New Thought (73%)
11. Taoism (72%)
12. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (72%)
13. Hinduism (69%)
14. Scientology (68%)
15. Sikhism (67%)
16. Orthodox Quaker (63%)
17. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (59%)
18. Secular Humanism (58%)
19. Orthodox Judaism (57%)
20. Islam (50%)
21. Nontheist (36%)
22. Seventh Day Adventist (28%)
23. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (25%)
24. Eastern Orthodox (11%)
25. Roman Catholic (11%)
26. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (7%)
27. Jehovah’s Witness (7%)
…That’s really weird. My #1 from today was only 58% in May, and my #1 from May is 67% today.
1. Secular Humanism (100%)
2. Unitarian Universalism (93%)
3. Liberal Quakers (79%)
4. Theravada Buddhism (72%)
5. Neo-Pagan (72%)
6. Nontheist (67%)
7. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (64%)
8. New Age (57%)
9. Taoism (52%)
10. Reform Judaism (49%)
11. Mahayana Buddhism (46%)
12. Orthodox Quaker (39%)
13. Scientology (37%)
14. New Thought (36%)
15. Sikhism (34%)
16. Bahá’à Faith (32%)
17. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (28%)
18. Jainism (28%)
19. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (22%)
20. Hinduism (19%)
21. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (16%)
22. Seventh Day Adventist (16%)
23. Eastern Orthodox (13%)
24. Islam (13%)
25. Orthodox Judaism (13%)
26. Roman Catholic (13%)
27. Jehovah’s Witness (9%)
not surprised about number one, but what is the world is liberal quakerism, and why am i almost one? enlighten me, people.
hmm. the thing that that site has on liberal quakers makes me seem like…. not one. huh. and secular humanism…yep. pretty much.
77-many(most) unitarian universalists are atheists or agnostics. yeah. many apologies for triple post.
76-Therevada Buddhists believe in doing what you think is right, and basing your ideas on thought. more of a philosophy than a religion. Mahayana buddhists belive that the buddha was god. that is why its lower.
86- Yeah. Helps when I know what all those religions listed are, doesn’t it?
Hm… I believe I shall have to make this an annual thing. Strange how our values change in such relatively short spans of time.
The Present
1. Unitarian Universalism (100%) (That makes sense, kinda)
2. Liberal Quakers (92%) (Um… possibly. Like Penty, I’m not familiar with it, but I’ve read about Orthodox Quakers, and they seem kinda cool)
3. Neo-Pagan (92%) (Huh?)
4. Reform Judaism (88%) (Yup. I could roll with that)
5. Mahayana Buddhism (81%) (Don’t know much about the particular sect, but I always did agree with a lot of Buddhist principles)
6. Sikhism (81%) (I used to know stuff about this one, but I forgot. I think it was mainly good.)
7. Bahá’à Faith (80%) (No clue.)
8. Jainism (77%) (Same as Sikhism)
9. New Age (76%) (Possibly. I have a friend, Sasha, who is somewhat New-Agey, and we agree on a lot of moral things.)
10. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (73%) (Okay, sure, why not?)
11. Theravada Buddhism (68%) (I wonder why those two sects are so widely separated for me?)
12. Hinduism (67%) (Wasn’t expecting that one. Once you get past the old sacrifices and caste system and crap, I guess it kinda makes sense)
13. Orthodox Judaism (65%) (Once again, I wonder why there’s so much separation of these two sects for me?)
14. Islam (59%) (I dunno. Maybe non-chauvinistic, non-radical Islam.)
15. Secular Humanism (59%) (I expected this one to be much higher up. Weird)
16. Orthodox Quaker (57%) (Sect separation, again.)
17. New Thought (55%) (Is this akin to New-Age?)
18. Scientology (50%) (Scientology creeps me out a bit…)
19. Taoism (45%) (Makes some sense)
20. Nontheist (39%) (Expected this one to be way higher up, too.)
21. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (35%) (Whatevs.)
22. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (35%) (Hm. I don’t really agree with most Mormon principles, so I don’t know why this isn’t at the bottom.)
23. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (35%) (GAH! SECT SEPARATION! WHAT THE CRAP IS WRONG WITH ME?!)
24. Seventh Day Adventist (31%) (Idk. Who cares?)
25. Eastern Orthodox (30%) (Ditto)
26. Roman Catholic (30%) (Blech. Catholocism might be for others, but not for me.)
27. Jehovah’s Witness (18%) (This one should be higher up, I think.)
May 2006
1. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (100%)
2. Liberal Quakers (83%)
3. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (75%)
4. Unitarian Universalism (74%)
5. Reform Judaism (73%)
6. Bahá’à Faith (69%)
7. Orthodox Quaker (66%)
8. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (63%)
9. Neo-Pagan (62%)
10. New Age (56%)
11. Sikhism (54%)
12. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (54%)
13. Islam (53%)
14. Orthodox Judaism (53%)
15. Jehovah’s Witness (52%)
16. Secular Humanism (51%)
17. Mahayana Buddhism (51%)
18. Theravada Buddhism (50%)
19. Taoism (48%)
20. New Thought (47%)
21. Scientology (46%)
22. Eastern Orthodox (37%)
23. Roman Catholic (37%)
24. Jainism (37%)
25. Seventh Day Adventist (31%)
26. Nontheist (27%)
27. Hinduism (23%)
last year’s… “I took that quiz but lost the results. I do remember that it told me i was quaker though. then moderate to liberal protestant. Catholic, which is my actual religion, was 5th on the list.”
well then
76- But my beliefs are a lot closer to buddhism than any kind of christianity. That test seems flawed. If it was up to me:
Non theist: 100%
Theravada Buddhism: 92%
Taoist: 88%
Mahayana Buddhism: 77%
Jainism: 68%
Hinduism:60%
Liberal huma-whatsit christianity: 20%
Sikhism: 15%
Most other christianity: 7%
lslam:7%
Bahai: 5%
Scientology: 0%
Jehovah’s Witness: -999999999999%
here is the abridged version because otherwise it’s tl;dr
1.Unitarian Universalism (100%)
2.Secular Humanism (87%)
3.Liberal Quakers (81%)
you know what i believe in, I believe in happiness. I don’t need a label.
61) ahh the chain email. Things like that aren’t meant to enlighten, they have a specific point of view in mind…new age propaganda.
86 (ddod)- Ah, that makes sense. But I thought that the Buddhist idea of the divine was that it was impossible to know, so therefore the Buddha could be a great sage or prophet but not a god? Hm. Moar research is definitely necessary.
90 (ag)- That precise, eh?
91 (Axa)- LABELZ R 4 CANZ NOT 4 PPL!!!!11!!
Wow! After looking at the old religions list, I realised I am not the only Church of the Flying Sphaghetti Monster enthusist.
1. Secular Humanism (100%)
2. Unitarian Universalism (91%)
3. Nontheist (80%)
4. Liberal Quakers (72%)
5. Theravada Buddhism (68%)
6. Neo-Pagan (61%)
7. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (55%)
8. Taoism (46%)
9. New Age (44%)
10. Reform Judaism (37%)
11. Mahayana Buddhism (33%)
12. Orthodox Quaker (32%)
13. Bahá’à Faith (23%)
14. Sikhism (23%)
15. Scientology (22%)
16. Jainism (21%)
17. New Thought (19%)
18. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (18%)
19. Seventh Day Adventist (17%)
20. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (14%)
21. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (12%)
22. Hinduism (11%)
23. Eastern Orthodox (11%)
24. Islam (11%)
25. Orthodox Judaism (11%)
26. Roman Catholic (11%)
27. Jehovah’s Witness (4%)
UUUUMMMMMMMMmmmmmm…..:….. What’s a Seculer Humanist?
I think I didn’t get simular results to Aga because I said Nature should be revered, because it should be, but not in a spiritual sense.
This test/quiz is faulty. I hate to burst whoever made this’s bubble, but I am 100% atheist, 0% anything to do with a supreme being.
Basically, Mahayana Buddhists believe that the universe contains a variety of divine beings (devas) and demons. They also believe in saints called bodhisattvas — people who have almost reached nirvana (their version of Heaven) but who have voluntarily given it up to stay behind and help others achieve enlightenment. Theravada Buddhists, by contrast, think that people are pretty much on their own. It’s similar to the difference between Catholicism (or Orthodoxy) and Protestantism within Christianity. Theravada was originally called Hinayana, meaning “little raft” (i.e., so hard that only a few people can follow it). Mayahana means “big raft.”
It’s complicated, though. For example, Zen Buddhism grew out of Mahayana Buddhism but rejected most or all of the supernatural parts.
92- An estimate.
94- That seems right. l did a report on Buddhism.
Another observation about the Belief-O-Matic: as far as I can tell, the only question that distinguishes Mormonism from mainline Protestants is the one that asks whether God has a physical body. Mormons say yes; Protestants say no.
93 (Vixen)- We’re not taking it seriously at all–if we did we’d all be Unitarian Universalists by now.
And secular humanism often overlaps with atheism. “Secular” means that it doesn’t have anything to do with a god, and “humanism” means that…it has something to do with humans?
By the way, it’s impossible to be 0% anything to do with a supreme being. Unless you like murder, stealing, and general immorality. If you don’t, then you agree at least a little bit with almost every religion. Sorry.
97-no, it means humanistic. as in human rights, the oppostite of inhuman etc.
and on 100% secular… thats basically what satanism is. it rejects the religious idea of good, and says taht a traditional idea of “evil” is human, and not bad.
90-heh. i got same top ten as you. and secualr humanists are 100% atheist and 0% to do with anything related to any god or deity. you agree with 11% of what islam thinks, which is pretty reasonable. you could never be muslim, because their main ideas go against yours,but you agree with them 11%. on subjects like stealing killing etc.
I am a secular Jew, which means that I accept the Jewish culture, but not the theology. I am an atheist, but I don’t think that it is bad if you believe in God. I think that any belief is fine as long as you don’t impose your beliefs on others. I also think that prejudice against homosexuals is awful, because science has shown that you can’t even decide your sexual orientation. Also, it can hardly be labeled as unnatural, since there were two gay penguins in one zoo.
100- Ah, yes. Wasn’t that what that children;s book And Tango Makes Three was all about?
I believe that you have to try to live a life completely innocent and try not to be impure and have to live life humbly, I agree with a number of religions but am mainly a Christan, I don’t agree with any sect or cult that I have worshiped at.
100 (Gwen)- CUTEST. BOOK. EVER.
-wibbles-
98 (ddod)- Ahh, you put it so much better than I did.
Farking crap. I am trying to write a paper about world religions for history class and it keeps dying. I wonder if I could quote the Museblog?
97 (Penty) – According to the Belief-O-Matic, I’m 0% in Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons), Eastern Orthodox , Islam, Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant, Orthodox Judaism, Roman Catholic, and Sikhism. But I most definitely don’t like murder, stealing, and general immorality.
…there’s only so much an online quiz can do.
umm…peeps doing the religions list, i am no longer Sand Demon. Please take that name off of the MBORB list! also, can i please be under Radical Atheist? nothing else, just Radical Atheist!
If you’re going to change your name every two or three weeks, you really can’t blame other MBers for being behind the times. But I’ll make the changes on ddod’s list above.
Oooh I wish I had time to read this thread.
102- Ah yes, the penguins make everything adorable. Even crap-tastic movies.
105 – thanks.
WHOA. My results:
1. Reform Judaism (100%)
2. Neo-Pagan (96%)
3. Hinduism (95%)
4. Sikhism (92%)
5. Bahá’à Faith (87%)
6. Jainism (86%)
7. Orthodox Judaism (85%)
8. Mahayana Buddhism (81%)
9. Islam (79%)
10. Unitarian Universalism (76%)
11. Liberal Quakers (72%)
12. Scientology (67%)
13. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (64%)
14. New Age (58%)
15. New Thought (56%)
16. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (49%)
17. Orthodox Quaker (48%)
18. Jehovah’s Witness (46%)
19. Theravada Buddhism (44%)
20. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (43%)
21. Secular Humanism (39%)
22. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (37%)
23. Eastern Orthodox (31%)
24. Roman Catholic (31%)
25. Seventh Day Adventist (31%)
26. Taoism (31%)
27. Nontheist (13%)
My Conclusion: WHOA.
The funny thing is that the religion I was baptized by and spent nine years of my life practicing I’m now 31%, and it’s ranked as 24. Wait ’till I show this to Mom!
A question to Wicca and FSM: (warning, this is going to sound incredulus, but don’t get me wrong, it’s NOT)
What makes you think (there you go, incredulus) that the Flying Spaghetti Moster can even EXIST? And Wiccans, do you think you’re a witch/wizard or something? That would be cool, but I have a hard time beliving it.
1. Secular Humanism (100%)
2. Unitarian Universalism (90%)
3. Theravada Buddhism (77%)
4. Liberal Quakers (76%)
5. Nontheist (75%)
6. Neo-Pagan (71%)
7. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (58%)
8. Taoism (56%)
9. New Age (53%)
10. Orthodox Quaker (42%)
11. Reform Judaism (42%)
12. Mahayana Buddhism (41%)
13. Bahá’à Faith (28%)
14. Sikhism (28%)
15. Scientology (27%)
16. Jainism (26%)
17. New Thought (25%)
18. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (21%)
19. Seventh Day Adventist (19%)
20. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (17%)
21. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (16%)
22. Hinduism (14%)
23. Eastern Orthodox (11%)
24. Islam (11%)
25. Orthodox Judaism (11%)
26. Roman Catholic (11%)
27. Jehovah’s Witness (7%)
Pretty much right, I consider myself to be an atheist and I answered all the questions as an atheist…And reform Judaism is 42%! I would have expected Reform Judaism to be a little higher up, but w/e.
(110) The question about FSM has been answered before, recently in comment 74, above.
112-Ah. Thank you. I’m surprised I missed it! I read the same post to go to the Belife O Matic thingy.
I still find it dumb to belive, just to make a point, but I see the reasoning behind it.
(113) No one is expected to believe it. Reminds me of some friends in high school who formed a religion around a carrot.
114-OMG seriously? I LOVE carrots! What was the religion called? What did they do? Was it a specific carrot, or carrots in general? Did they have to stop eating carrots? Can I convert?
(115) Carrots in general, I believe. Because carrots pointed the way. I don’t remember many other details, though I vividly recall the poster in the band hall and the photo in the yearbook. Admittedly, the photo is tucked into the back pages and bears no caption. Non-initiates may have wondered.
I’m sure the original adherents would be delighted if a new generation wanted to take the baton, uh, root, and run with it. It’s also true there aren’t enough religions or philosophies founded by someone named Zip.
As for whether ingestion of carrots should be encouraged or taboo, I suppose that would depend upon one’s
personal preferencestheoretical interpretations.yeah. I took the quiz-thing, ‘cuz other people were doing it, and I adore quizes.
1. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (100%)
2. Liberal Quakers (83%)
3. Reform Judaism (81%)
4. Bahá’à Faith (78%)
5. Orthodox Quaker (69%)
6. Unitarian Universalism (67%)
7. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (62%)
8. Orthodox Judaism (60%)
9. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (60%)
10. Islam (55%)
11. Jehovah’s Witness (54%)
12. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (52%)
13. Sikhism (51%)
14. New Thought (47%)
15. New Age (46%)
16. Secular Humanism (43%)
17. Taoism (41%)
18. Neo-Pagan (41%)
19. Seventh Day Adventist (41%)
20. Mahayana Buddhism (38%)
21. Theravada Buddhism (38%)
22. Nontheist (33%)
23. Eastern Orthodox (33%)
24. Roman Catholic (33%)
25. Jainism (32%)
26. Scientology (31%)
27. Hinduism (13%)
protestant is 100% which is what I practice, and reform judaism is pretty high…not unexpected…yeah.
Ok, sorry if i didnt make this clear, but I was kind of wondering what peoples responses were to my last posts.
It seems most people have Reform Judism near the top and Roman Catholic near the bottom.
I took the test a second time, and got similar results, but I thought about my choices more. This one is more accurate…
1. Reform Judaism (100%)
2. Bahá’à Faith (94%)
3. Liberal Quakers (93%)
4. Sikhism (92%)
5. Neo-Pagan (87%)
6. Orthodox Judaism (86%)
7. Unitarian Universalism (85%)
8. Mahayana Buddhism (80%)
9. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (77%)
10. Islam (76%)
11. Hinduism (69%)
12. New Age (69%)
13. Orthodox Quaker (68%)
14. Jainism (63%)
15. New Thought (58%)
16. Scientology (55%)
17. Theravada Buddhism (54%)
18. Secular Humanism (48%)
19. Taoism (44%)
20. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (43%)
21. Seventh Day Adventist (42%)
22. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (39%)
23. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (39%)
24. Eastern Orthodox (37%)
25. Roman Catholic (37%)
26. Jehovah’s Witness (31%)
27. Nontheist (22%)
what test? can someone give me a link?
116-Ok, I’m converting! I’m still eating carrots though. I could never give up eating carrots.
(122) That works — turn carrot eating into a ritual, partake of the essence, enrich the world with beta-carotene….
123-I already do. I believe that it was carrots that helped me through the spelling bee, and have worshipped them ever since.
The Church of the Carrot. I like it.
But I won’t be converting anytime soon.
Ok, sorry to be a bother again, but I was kinda wondering if people just decided to not read my posts or what. Sorry, its not that big of a deal, but I am just curious.
Hi, dancergirl13! We GAPAs read your posts, and we’re pretty sure everyone else does, too. You said that you don’t know much about religion, had never been to church, and hoped no one would get angry at you. Nobody had much to say about any of that, but it’s clear that nobody is angry.
110- What makes you think that god can even exist?
On comfort:
(Name witheld), my fellow philosopher, introduced a new theory of why even the most ridiculous of religions are believed in.
Little children often have blankets that they dub “blankieâ€, which provide a strange moral security to them. During the duration of their early childhood, children are unaware that a blanket does not actually love and protect them.
The same applies to religious people, with their religion as the blanket. They grow comforted thinking that they are constantly being watched over. The only difference between blankets and god, aside from the amount of power that they are said to have, is that god has no power because he doesn’t exist, while a blanket exists but has no power.
It’s nice to be comforted, but putting comfort before reality leads to withdrawal from reality, which leads to lack of responsibility. The simplest form of withdrawal from reality is often meditation. Some sects of Buddhism and Hinduism encourage it, but my meditations involve concentrating on reality and improving it.
Religion also alters our responsibility as humans. If we believe that god will take care of everything, we lack social responsibility. Ignorance is bliss, but not permanent bliss, for if people don’t make an effort to help the world, global warming and pollution will get the best of us.
There is also the blankie conversion method, which involves a traveling Christian telling foreigners that Jesus loves them, which is like giving a young child a blanket. This ties in with my Vatican theory. The Christian leader promises the foreigners that they are loved and protected, even if they themselves don’t really believe it, and they gain servants.
When someone decides that religion is false, it’s like losing the blanket. They’re depressed at first, but they eventually realize that they are better off without it.
*sneaks into thread*
We’re taking the plan this week, today we filled out those cards with all our info on them. There was a list with a bunch of religions on them (no Pastafarian though- I checked (just for fun, I’m not one)), it didn’t include athiest but did have ‘I do not practice’ which isn’t the same, but it was close.
There was also a box for race. I put ‘prefer not to disclose’ because I don’t think it should matter, especally on a test like this. On collage aplications, maybe, because they have to have minorites, but I also think that people who deserve to get in should get in and people who don’t shouldn’t, regardless of race or religion.
Will take test momentarily.
1. Secular Humanism (100%)
2. Unitarian Universalism (99%)
3. Liberal Quakers (87%)
4. Neo-Pagan (81%)
5. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (76%)
6. New Age (76%)
7. Theravada Buddhism (75%)
8. Nontheist (66%)
9. Reform Judaism (59%)
10. Taoism (59%)
11. Mahayana Buddhism (58%)
12. Scientology (47%)
13. Orthodox Quaker (46%)
14. New Thought (45%)
15. Bahá’à Faith (43%)
16. Sikhism (43%)
17. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (37%)
18. Jainism (34%)
19. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (26%)
20. Hinduism (26%)
21. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (23%)
22. Islam (20%)
23. Orthodox Judaism (20%)
24. Seventh Day Adventist (18%)
25. Eastern Orthodox (16%)
26. Roman Catholic (16%)
27. Jehovah’s Witness (7%)
This is a topic I’ve been pondering quite a bit lately but I’m still totally unsure. It was a long time before I started questioning religion at all…I never really did until after we moved. (My family goes to a Methodist church.) So I was ten or so before I started really thinking about it. For a while I was pretty much agnostic or atheistic even though I still had to go to church. But now I’m questioning again because I don’t want to believe that millions and millions of people are just deluding themselves which is how I felt. Part of the reason I’m wondering is that a new friend of mine is really into religion, and he has so much in common with me (we’re both really logically-minded and he’s about a million times smarter than I am and he’s older and stuff) and it makes me think that it really is possible that there is something to believe in and maybe I could believe in it too. I haven’t been actively pursuing this but I’ve been trying to pay better attention in church and to not automatically dismiss everything as fantasy.
That was really ramble-ish and probably difficult to understand. I tried to articulate as best I could but I don’t really have time to proofread. Heh.
131-reasonable, but i have two things to say. One, If you’re going to base your rethinking of religion on one person who is smarter than you, consider all of the people who are smarter than you that are atheists (and all the smart people who arent atheists. even though i would say there are less of them.)Two, you seem reasonable. Why would you pay more attention in church if you’ve been going there all life? lots of other religions. (some of them are even plausible!)
I prefer not to talk about religion, especially if it offends people, although if no one will be offended, then I can think of everything a bit clearer. I would like to think that some sort of religion is true, I mean, who wouldn’t, but part of me thinks that its all just wishful thinking. No clue why, but it just seems, I dunno, just sort of narrow-minded.? I do like thinking about all of the religions I can think of, and there is good in them, just all about gods and stuff seems a bit like it isn’t true… like there probly was a religion a long time ago that everyone believed, or at least most, and we don’t even know of it now, so how could it be true? didn’t make much sense… did it? oh well. It would also seem like believing something without evidence if i thought that there is a god because someone told me. i ammm confused. but everyone is, cause you can’t prove anything when it comes to philosophy…. *iiisss annoyed. veeerrryy annoyed.* sometimes i wish that something like a god would just come down and tell me if there is any true religion…. of course, if there is no religion, then that couldn’t happen…*sigh*
133-and, since god could never show himself, then there would be no test of faith. I guess you will just have to believe in his noodly appendage. otherwise, you’ll go to HELL!!!!!!
133- l think you’re right, but you don’t fully understand things. You’re kinda uninformed and when people inform you, you don’t take it in. You watched the entire family life movie, yet you hardly know anything about sex. What you do know you learn from colin, who’s a pervert. Pay attention.
132 ~ I could probably just refuse to go to church anymore, but religion has kind of been around me my entire life and I find it hard to totally dismiss it. My dad, for example, is someone I think incredibly highly of. We’re both sarcastic and somewhat sadistic math-geek-ish goofballs but he’s Christian too. Still, I pretty much stopped thinking about it, and my friend just brought it back to the front of my brain. I’m not saying there aren’t millions of people far smarter than I who are atheists. Just because religious people have me thinking about it doesn’t mean I’m not looking at both sides.
And I’ve started to try and pay attention because I never really did before. I’m trying to see the reason in things I used to accept either as truth or fallacy without really considering it.
Thanks for reading and making some sense of my post.
110 – for the last time, the FSM is a religion mocking Intelligent Design. it is not an actual religion, it is just for atheists who want reasons to be able to ridicule other religions.
will someone please tell me why Jesus is the savior of Christianity if he was just a Jewish kid with psychic abilities? honestly, of all the religions i know, Christianity is the most ^^^^-ed up one. no offense to all you christians, but it just makes no sense at all!
[Just as I have a hard time understanding why anyone thinks that taking a gratuitous, overgeneralized swipe at someone else’s beliefs is innocuous as long as one concludes the statement with “no offense.” No offense. –Rebecca]
135-umm, is there something i dont know here?
139- They know each other in the outside world.
138 []- It’s amazing how you GAPAs manage to keep your sense of humor even in the most awkward situations.
138-:shock: Offense taken! I find it hard to curse someone’s religion and then say no offense. Jesus was not phsycic. He was the son of God. There’s a bit of a difference.
(141) Ah, well, speaking for myself, I chalk it up to the practical advantage of having survived multitudinous awkward situations.
138-well, I mean, what don’t you understand? I can explain it so it makes more sense.
135-so? don’t insult him for it. In the end, his style of living may have a better outcome then us nervous stressed people.
138- Jesus is the saviour of the world, in our belief, because he died for us. He’s not “some Jewish kid with psychic abilities”. He’s God. And he came down to Earth and suffered and died without resistance, so that we didn’t have to suffer forever.
146-Wait….you believe Jesus is God? I thought he was supposed to be God’s son…
Muslim: FantasyFan?!?!
Jewish: Sphinx, Quintessentia, groundhog22, hypermoocow, FairyDragon
Reform: yellowsharpiemarker, Sobriquet
Reconstructionist: Kiki The Great, Anata~ChinTsu
Conservative: Copper Bigfoot, Brave Sir Robin, Zyviva
Orthodox: Phoenix, Jessie
Jewish Atheist: Lizzie, emmatheduck, speller73
Christian: cHill, Donaldo, MontgomeryGurl, Ninja For Christ, Eccentric the Afterthought, Lady Cinnamon Moon, Beavo
Lutheran: Queen-o-random, Capricious
Catholic: Kiara, Romana2, Ebeth, davidude, Piggy the Proud Catholic
Eastern Orthodox: Sunrunner Bramblewood, Dotty ‘Kay
Quaker: Zallie, Red Tailed HAWK, Liesolotte, Purple Panda, Taiwan Hippo Fan
Protestant: book_addict, VanZepplin, Otzi, Kagcomix
Mormon (LDS): Skwerl Overlord, Veralidaine, Zyka
Methodist: grnqween2011
Presbyterian: Elizabeth, gimanator
Baptist: jammin j
Hindu: ♥ shriya siolashrwa jeffica ♥
Buddhist: 100% cotton
Agnostic: Sweet Melpomene, curious and questioning, SupremeMuser2000, Lady Visala of Reverie, Gwendolyn
Wiccan: emogrl, FairyDragon
Mixed Bag of Random Beliefs: Pentatonikk, Gwendolyn of the Eastern Seas, Otzi, Axa, elassë~adael, curious and questioning, Musketeer Number, Sweet Melpomene, Drops of Jupiter
Druid Reconstructionist: Millie
Atheist: Skipper Nancy, johnkerry, Purple Panda, Taiwan Hippo Fan, Darth Yoda, Lizzie, penguini, violindino, Yup, Bobbyjkl, First Sorceress, Shadowkat, curious and questioning, Potato Chip, Cat’s Meow, C++darkmage, Drops of Jupiter, The Raven of the Hawk, agagabagabag zepata,
Spiritual Atheist: The Bev, Harmony with short red hair
Radical Atheist: Queenie J, Drops of Jupiter, dark duke of darkness
Happy Atheist: philosophical.bunny
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM): Necromancer, Vixen in the Eyes of the Moon
Asatruar: Frigid Symphony
Green Cow: curious and questioning
The Church of the Carrot: emmatheduck
148-did you just leave me out again…. *sigh* i so do not feel like doing all of that shiny formatting.
(149) I amended the list, dark duke of darkness. Hope I got it right.
150-ahh, thank you. *pays respects*
I’m the same as Darth Yoda and I’d call myself a Sadistic Atheist.
Interesting quote:
“Is [God] willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then is he impotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then is he malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Whence then is evil?”-Epicurus
I’m sorry, I went back through and read everything, but I must have missed you–sorry!
152-sadism-Sadism is the derivation of pleasure as a result of the suffering of others. Aspects of it include
* Sadism and masochism in sexual contexts
* Sadism and masochism as medical terms
* Sadistic personality disorder
dont see quite how that has to do with religion
154- it has nothing to do with religion. [The rest of this post was pretty gross and seemed off-topic. –Robert]
147- He is God, and God’s son. It’s the trinity. And one of the most confusing bits of Christianity. There’s the Father (God), the Son (Jesus) and the Holy spirit. But they’re all one God.
156-So then Jesus would be like part of God?
157-Yes, like a part of God, but not a physical part. God isn’t split into three, but the trinity includes The father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
158-Hmm….I still don’t quite get it, but that’s ok. I guess it’s easier to understand if you were raised Christian…
[Sorry, emmatheduck&c., but the name was getting out of hand, especially as it has begun to travel outside the PPP. –Rebecca]
138- OH! RICOCHET! REBECCA BROUGHT IT! *R-snap* But really, that was a most untactful thing to say. And get your facts straight. Jesus didn’t have psychic powers, he had divine, prophetic powers according to Christian theology.
154- People who make math textbooks are sadistic. Well, at least that’s mine and my dad’s theory.
160- What’s the difference?
What makes people so sure that their religion is correct? For all you who strongly believe in your religion, consider what your views would be if you were raised in a different religion.
161- Well, generally, psychic powers tend to be more along the lines of occult and pagan beliefs. At least the heading, anyway.
Ghandi once was quoted as saying that he liked America’s christ, just not their christians;
and I would become a Christian, if I ever met one
152-God will not do for man what man can do for himself.
163-cant say i disagree. Christ seems like he was a nice guy. America’s Christians are pretty evil. as is the bible.
164-what cant man do for himself?
148- I just wanted to point out that I’m Atheist, if I haven’t said it before (which i believe I have…).
I would be on this thread, but have never read the Bible. Maybe sometime I’ll come out of my box… *vanishes*
166-No, no, don’t! Otherwise the ninjas will get you!
159- Well… It’s like a flame. There are blue, white and yellow parts, right? They’re all different, but it’s one flame. Same with God. All the three parts are different, but they’re one
168- That’s a very good explanation, I like it muchly.
Yeah, Christ seems like a nice guy. Most religions and their founders have really only one main intent at heart: to make people be nicer to each other and make sure they go up to heaven for being nice. It’s misinterpretations that lead to all the trouble. Religion in its purest, most base form would work splendidly for everyone.
169-err yea. kinda like total authoritarianism would make the world work perfectly. tell everyone lies, and they’ll be nice. after all, they’re human, they cant handle the TRUTH!!!!
new thread….? pwease? haven’t seen that in a while. lol
(171) Think you’ll get a new thread after saying that?
192- pwease?
l would like everyone to consider the dialogue l had on a previous thread:
“Actually, the golden calf the hebrews worshipped was an alter to Apis, an Egyptian god, which makes sense.
“No, the Bible says that they worshipped the statue.”
“When you pray to the statue of Jesus, do you pray to Jesus, or the statue?
“The bible says that they worshipped the statue.”
People, you’ve got to stop saying that things are facts just because they’re in the bible, which is notoriously innacurate.
agagabagabag- Look, anyone who says that things are facts because they are in the Bible is probably a Christian. And we believe the Bible is the word of God, so we believe it’s fact. You can have your own beliefs, but can you have them without insulting our beliefs please?
175-um.. I’m jewish i believe the stuff in the bible
I believe that when it says that the people worshiped the statue, it is saying that if there was an alter to God, there was God, but when they worshipped the other Apis person, there was no Apis, just a statue. Kind of like talking on a working telephone, you are talking to someone, but when you talk to a broken telephone, you just talk to a phone.
Re: The Bible-The bible is not fact. Period. Whoever wrote it [in the first place] got these stories from God. He wasn’t lying, he was trying to make a point with each story. Like a fable.
176-lol. excellent point.
177-have to say, broken logic there, the bible makes an excellent argument against the existence of the pagan god, but fails to realize taht this applies to themselves.
178-that may be what you believe, but unfortunately, lots of people disagree with you. i mean, they think the bible is true, everything in the bible happened, the bible is fact. lots of them. i respect your view much more. makes so much more sense.
agagabagabag-look. just ‘cuz you have a book that insults other religions doesn’t mean you have the right to insult them.
147-both. it’s god in a guy on earth. so it’s God’s ‘son’. or, that’s the way I think of it. yeah.
…
wow. that took a long time to get caught up on.
175- Isn’t the bible up for interpretation?
180- l try not to insult religion, but merely point out its innacuracies.
Others here have simply stated there, beliefs, so l shall state mine:
1. Death was the first thing we new about life, but humanity is petty. We created religion and the afterlife to refuse death. Death should be accepted, in the exeption of premature deaths were one doesn’t achieve their full potential as a person.
2. Most people believe in their relgion because they were raised with it. Most people, when asked, say that lf they were born into another religion, they would believe it until they found a better religion i.e, theirs in real life. What are the odds of that happening? Even so, converts deserve some respect because they it shows that they’re thinking.
3. lt is against my personal policy to just randomly insult religion. My way of arguing is based upon that of FS who didn’t pointlessly insult religion unless severly provoked. Intsead, l just calmly point out religions innacuracys and flaws.
4. l believe that the peaceful element of most religions is good. The problem is that people are corrupt and use religion as an excuse to kill and decieve, and misinterperit it. Examples include the crusaders and Muslim suicide bombers.
5. l believe that the element of many religions in which an all powerful god will take care of everything is harmful. Humans need to take responsibility for themselves and fix this world. (and not by passing out flyers telling people to convert)
6. Knowledge > tolerance
7. Short term happiness (pollution, belief that god will take care of everything, etc) –> long term misery
8. Knowledge and exeptance –> Long term happiness.
9. Idealy, we don’t really need separate nations, or even a goverment, as long as we learn to live in peace.
10. We must focus more on coexisting with nature than with ourselves.
I am not forcing my beliefs on you, I am also only stating my opinion, which is that religion isn’t all that bad.
182- 1. If we will die with no afterlife in the future, what’s wrong with thinking there is an afterlife? It will give people something to live for in life, and a dead person who believed in afterlife is no worse than another dead person.
5. What religions say a god will take care of everything?
7. Religion gives people hope for eternal life, or whatever having faith in their religion will offer them. I wouldn’t say it gives them misery.
9. It just wouldn’t work without a sort of government. People are naturally evil, and they can’t just learn to live in peace without someone making them live in peace.
10. Well, then find a religion in which you coexist with nature. There’s quite a variety to choose from, and I’m sure there’s one all about nature.
183- i’m sure its great, but thats like sayin what’s wrong with lving in a peaceful isolated area, where there is no evil. a person living in such a world woudl be happy. But i would certainly not want to live there.
182-*Agrees* i feel like you’re kinda being a bit superior though.
180-err, the book doesnt give him the right. he has the right before, after, and during the book.
183- 1. lf you live your life in the anticipation of another false one, you have wasted your life.
5. lsn’t he almighty? lf he can’t take care of everything, then he isn’t.
7. It hasn’t yet, but it the ignorance caused by it will lead to it.
9. That is a sad, sad, sad way of looking at lif.
10. But why would l get a religion anyway? Why can’t l coexist with nature without it? Why are you trying to get me a religion? Are you Gimanator? (By the way, not all of these have to do with religion.)
184- Um. Thank you?
185-sorry, acting superior. not a compliment. :/
Has anyone ever noticed that god can’t be all-knowing and all-mighty? Can god make a rock so heavy he can’t lift it? Can god make himself forget?
It’s a brainteaser.
187- No, it doesn’t work. lf he’s allmighty, in theory he could do anything, but his almightiness would also make him be able to lift the rock. If he was all-knowing, than he would know how to make himself forget, but he would also know what he forgot.
183- And yet you are challenging and insulting (not really, but by gimanator’s [who l strongly suspect you are] definition) my beliefs.
186- How so?
175- Also, it just logically doesn’t make sense. And besides, whenever atheists here point out a proven innacuracy in the bible, the christians just waffle and say that the bible is up for interpretation or some such equivalent.
177- Yes, but they worshipped what it stood for, not the statue itself! That’s the way prayer works, right?
Me? Gimanator? I might be, yet then again I might not be. I am not trying to get you a religion, I am just trying to give you another perspective about religion in general.
185- 1-You’re not wasting your life. In many religions, the point of a second life is to give you reason to believe that your first life should not be wasted.
5- He’s almighty, but that doesn’t mean he takes care of everything. He could if he wanted to, but that’s not the point of Christianity.
7- Ignorance is bliss.
9- Sad, but true. If you look at people’s nature, you’ll see that most everyone cares about themself. There are some exceptions, but sadly, that’s the way most everyone is.
10- I never said I wanted to give you a religion. I’m just trying to change your lowish opinion on the people who do.
187- Christians hate it when people ask those questions. But here’s some logical reasoning I came up with:
Can God make a rock that he cannot lift?
1. Jesus=God
2. Ordinary humans cannot lift very heavy rocks.
3. Jesus is an ordinary human in every way except that He=God and he never does anything wrong.
4. God, being almighty, can make a very heavy rock, and he won’t be able to lift it as Jesus, but he will be able to lift it as God. Therefore, God can make a rock that he cannot lift.
Can God make himself forget?
1. Jesus=God
2. Ordinary humans can forget things.
I think you can figure out the rest.
189- Give me one proven inaccuracy in the Bible.
190- 1. Mmm hmm. lf you go from door to door trying to convert people, depriving yourself of sleep on Sunday, and giving money to a house of lies, are you leading a good life?
5- Why doesn’t he? If he’s all good, why do we suffer?
7- Yes, but that leads me back to my previous point. lt’s bliss at the cost of future bliss.
9- ls it true, or can you not find good in your own kind? Give hope a chance by believing in love.
10- That one had nothing to do with religion, so why did you tell me to get one?
The whole power thing- But jesus = god = omnipotent, right?
Viva la evolucion!!!
191- 1. You can’t generalize Christianity. I don’t do any of that sort of stuff, I just believe in the Bible. I will ask again–do you, yourself, actually know of any inaccuracy in the Bible?
5. Apparently, you don’t see the point of Christianity. He created us, he died for us, and he gave us everything we need to live. What more does he have to owe us? The answer is nothing. But he still does take care of us–we are on a big rock spinning out in space, with just the right temperature and atmosphere for life. If he wanted to, he could send the Earth plummeting into the sun or crashing into Jupiter. I wouldn’t say humanity suffers–think of all the bad things that haven’t happend.
7. Wait–I still don’t get it. How does it cost bliss in the future?
9. If humans love each other, then why have we been killing each other since the dawn of man?
10. I wasn’t trying to get you a religion. I was just saying that there are religions that co-exist with nature.
Jesus isn’t omnipotent. Only God is. Jesus is God in a human form, and humans are not omnipotent.
192- Say what???
1. YES. The existence of god, for one.
5. He could prevent us froom being the types who destroy each other. Think of all the bad things that have happened.
7. Because by decieving ourselves, we worsen our future.
9. If god exists, why would that happen? The point is that humanity deserves a chance. We can’t improve if we don’t try.
10. l’m aware of that, and those are the ones l respect. Not all religions are all bad.
Jesus thing- Yes, but Jesus is still god, even if he’s in a human’s body. And if Jesus has the powers of a human, tell me this; can humans cure blind people or turn water into wine?
And please allow me to restate this important point: You are doing what your fellows what you told me not to do: challenge (insult by your definition) other’s beliefs. You are being a hippocrite.
Nevertheless, l thank you for making me wonder why l belive what l believe, and making me a better thinker.
1. But can you prove it?
5. That’s not the way it works. He could just make a bunch of robots that worship him, but what’s so great about that? Instead, he gave us a free will, and let us choose whether we wanted to worship him or not.
7. Yes, but how does decieving ourselves worsen our future?
9. But we’ve tried to improve since the dawn of man, and we’ve failed.
Jesus: Have you ever heard of Moses? He’s the one who freed the Israelites from Egypt. He did all sorts of miracles to convince the pharaoh to let his people go. However, he didn’t perform the miracles himself. God did it through him. And I guess that it was the same for Jesus–he didn’t make the miracles happen, God did.
If you can point out the inaccuracies of Christianity, then I should be able to point out the inaccuracies of Atheism. I’m sorry if you feel like I’m challenging your beliefs, but I want to stay faithful to my religion.
I also thank you for making me wonder why I believe what I believe.
1. Yes. Haven’t you heard my arguments? If not see he following
5. That’s not what l said. l said that if he existed, he could prevent us from being the people you described in your responses to 9.
9. Have we? How do you know?
Jesus: But Jesus was god, wasn’t he? So didn’t he make the miracles happen?
Sidenote: The bible says that Jesus cured a blind man. Why is their blindness in the first place?
What do the GAPAs think of this procession?
196-
1. Give me a specific post, I still can’t find anything.
5. He COULD prevent us from being evil. But the question is, WHY doesn’t he? He wants us to choose whether to be evil or not. If he just prevented us from being evil, there would not really be any point to our existence.
9. I’m sure there were some good people out there who tried to improve humanity. But we still have wars, stealing, cheating, and murder today, so evidently they’ve failed.
Jesus: It’s rather hard to explain. Jesus was God, but he was just a human, and he didn’t have the power to make the miracles happen. He could only do it through God, who was him, but in a spiritual form.
Sidenote: I don’t know. Perhaps he was blind at birth, or maybe the man’s eyes got stabbed or something.
Come now, l know you’re there.
197- They don’t like it, I’m sure. Unless they like watching ping-pong games.
Oh, l skipped 7.
7. We poison our future and tell ourselves it’ll be okay.
1. Eh, l’m too lazy. Just look at 5 again.
5. Why would god need to test us? Doesn’t he make us suffer by making us hate each other? ls he truly great?
9. Humans can evolve, and if we survive long enough, we’ll change the error in our ways.
Jesus: Then how did he do the other miracles?
Sidenote: Oh, that must of been confusing. l meant there, not their.
Oh, and consider this: If god exists, l’m going to hell for being an atheist, right? And god is benevolent, right? So why would he have me go to hell, instead of having me be born into an orthodox family where religion is forced down my throat?
www. cnn. com/2007/LIVING/personal/11/16/flying.spaghettimonster.ap/index.html
Is this link okay? I figured an article on the Flying Spaghetti Monster is relevant…
[Not as a link. I’ve inserted spaces to keep spam bots from tracing it back to the blog. –Robert]
202- and some say it makes perfect sense!!!
(197) It all sounds very familiar. Biblical scholars have been pointing out apparent mistakes for thousands of years (sky not a dome; locusts have six legs, not four; Abimelech not high priest when David went to the temple; different accounts of Nativity, Crucifixion, Resurrection; etc.), and other scholars have been coming up with reasons that the apparent mistakes aren’t really mistakes. There are some very good books, and some very bad websites, devoted to this topic. MuseBloggers may be highly intelligent and destined for world domination, but I don’t think you’re going to settle those questions here.
202-What difference would it make? You would (hopefully, being a Muser) come to your own conclusion about what you belived, and convert to aithiest. Later than now, but you eventually would.
206- So why would god make me the type who beame an atheist?
155- sorry GAPAs’. I didn’t mean to inconvenience you. *hangs head*i totaly forgot i posted that. sorry.
191- agagabagabag please don’t generalize christianity. religion is a very personal thing. to some people it means spreading the word of God. to others it means regularly visiting a house of God. to me it is something I can’t put in words. so pleas please don’t generalize christianity.
205- well put.
207- God doesn’t force peple to do anything. he guides us to some extent but he doesn’t make decisions for us.
201- 1. That may prove that God doesn’t help mankind, but does it prove that God doesn’t exist? Perhaps God isn’t a loving God, and he just created us to watch what we would do.
5. It isn’t God that makes us hate each other, it’s the devil. God doesn’t make evil happen, but he might let evil happen. If he wanted to, he could stop evil. But is he a loving God? There is nothing that can disprove his existence.
7.*sighs* This is just going to go on and on. You still haven’t said why believing in the afterlife poisons our future.
9. I doubt that. People just have a poor nature, and unless we find a way to change the way we think, it can’t happen.
Jesus: Read post #195.
Sidenote: Read #1 on this post.
202- If he’s real, he’s giving you that chance right now.
And one more thing–If God is real, why should he help us? He created us, he died for us–what more does he have to do? He could kill us all right now if he wanted to. But he hasn’t, even though we’ve made him suffer so much.
Something l’ve noticed- People seem to say things not mentioned in the bible to rationalize the idea of god.
211- Yes, unfortunately that is true. I don’t agree with a lot of the stuff I just said in post #210, but I was trying to make a point. I believe God loves us, and he wants us to stay faithful to him even when there is evil all over the world. It’s a lot better then if God just made us a bunch of robots with no free will.
Why did it have to be inevitable that we’re evil? Why couldn’t we have free will and still be good? Having free wil doesn’t mean god can’t make us be good.
1. That contradicts the bible. Even if you’re talking about a non-biblical god, there’s still ways to disprove him.
5. lsn’t he a loving god? god might not be a loving god, but God (Yahweh) is.
7. Forget afterlife. People feel comfort in believing in god,and that he will take care of them, and if he doesn’t exist, the irresponsibility isn’t exactly good for them.
Ugh. This could go on forever. Why don’t we just live with each other, eat pie, and go to a thread we’re we don’t have to argue all the time?
We’re evil because God wants to show the devil that despite the sin that he (the devil) causes, humans will still turn to the Lord.
1. I still believe God is a loving God. However, if He doesn’t love us, there’s no way to disprove his existence.
5. What’s the difference between “god” and “God”?
7. I trust God, but it’s not like I believe God will make food fall from the sky if I’m hungry. I trust that he will send me to an afterlife, but I don’t expect him to always take care of me on Earth.
214- Okay. but who are you?
The evil thing didn’t make much sense.
1. Yes. But my argument provides quite a bit of evidence that a loving and omniptent god doesn’t exist.
5. The idea of a god and Yahweh.
7. Why won’t he do the food thing?
215- Satan wants to destroy mankind. God wants to save mankind. But God can’t just get rid of evil and sin like that. If he did, he would not truly be a loving God. He would just be some omnipotent being who makes a bunch of people worship Him. Since God is all good, he can’t always “play god”. He has to do it the right way, and that means he can’t interfere. It’s not like he wants all this evil to happen on Earth. The only thing He can do is try to make as many people become Christians as he can, so that he can save them from eternal doom.
wow. anonymous christian, your the most intelligent christian ive ever seen. like, ever.
200- i love ping pong!
anyhoo. it may be possible for you to prove that the bible is not flawed, and that god could exist. but the bible is horribly sexist, anti-gay, and pretty much anti-happiness. adultry being a deadly sin? what if someone does not want to get married? also, i simply refuse to believe that a god that was so obviously amde up to satisfy humanity exists. every argument you made could be made for a slightly different god, such as the FSM. and yet, we all know that the FSM does not exist.
Oh, so every non- christian is doomed? Hooray for me! l still fail to see why we would have to be eternally doomed in the first place. Why does the world work like that? Surely, god could make a perfect world where we have free will but still believe in him, or come up with something better than this.
At least everyone’s discussing this a little more rationally. I’ve seen plenty of people (on both sides of the argument) that seem to just pull stuff out of nowhere to rationalize their arguments.
217-In the bible (the old testament specifically) it has those laws about how this and this is a ‘deadly sin’. But it talks about in the New Testament, that the Old Laws become kind of moot, since Jesus died for us so that we could get into Heaven by accepting him, not by the laws:
‘Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
–Romans 10:4 (NIV)’
You have to remember, there are extremists in every group, religious or not. I am of a large group of christians that believes that there is no sin that is worse than another. Being gay isn’t any worse than lying in our minds. Yeah, we view it as not right, but we don’t judge because we have no right. We believe that everyone sins. Who are we to judge? That’s not our job. Unfortunately, some christians can get very judgemental of others. But the bible makes it clear that there is no longer a ‘Deadly sin’. That was in the old testament, the old law.
As for proof of God existing, it’s there in something called ‘Irreducable Complexity’ which is the scientific fact that the creatures on this earth are too complex to be just a matter of chance. It shows that the theory of evolution which has small changes over large periods of time, can’t work because a lot of animals now need all of their special qualities together in order to live. For example, cheetahs have smaller canines than other big cats, larger nostrils to take in more air into larger lungs, and smaller cubs so that they could still hunt while pregnant. With the cheetah’s method of hunting, if it had to wait around for smaller cubs, it would have become extinct because they couldn’t eat. There’s a whole lot more to it, though I won’t get into it all here. It goes into a lot more detail, but it’s generally like a bicycle, and how just one piece of the bicycle couldn’t work on it’s own. It all has to be put together, and it all has to be there at the same time.
No, it doesn’t. lt could have been imperfect at some time, and still have worked. lt didn’t mutate to help itself, it mutated and just found out how to use it to its advantage. lrreducable complexity is an okay theory, but chance could produce simple organisms, that evolved into complex ones.
220-But science does support the evidence that non-living things can’t create living things. And that’s what Evolution says; that chemicals and things formed little tiny organisms which became big organisms and such and such etc. I still find it incredibly farfetched that every single complex organism on earth (and the way they all interact) is just a matter of chance. Not to mention, if evolution were true, where are all the fossils? Even Einstein said that if the theory of evolution were true, then there should be millions of fossils showing us a step-by-step process in which we see the evolutionary process, and we don’t have them.
This is the way I see it: If God is real, I’ll be saved. If God isn’t real, then I’ll die whether I believe in him or not. Doesn’t it make more sense to believe? And also, I would rather live in a place where there is a right and wrong and doing something good counts. If there wasn’t a God, then life would be empty and without meaning; our existence would just be some big coincidence.
217- Being sexist and gay means happiness?
Whatever. As for adultery, why shouldn’t someone get married?
218- Sorry. but it’s true. But how hard is it just to believe in God? It doesn’t take much to become a Christian.
220- Good theory, but the chances are still small.
222- Isn’t that cheating, though? Because you’re just believing because you think that if God’s real you won’t be facing eternal damnation. But how do you know that because of that he won’t instead damn you for going against your beliefs to become a Christian? How do you know that we Atheists wouldn’t be let into Heaven for following our beliefs, instead of sent down to Hell?
222-response to 217– He means that the Bible is sexist, it is anti-homosexual, and that it is anti-pleasure (for example it says that sex is bad, as far as I can tell). And what if you wanted to stay single, but not a virgin? Animals other than humans just get together for a month or so (like some bf/gf couples…) and still have sex in that time (still like some bf/gf couples). By saying these things you are just splitting the human race apart from other animals.
222- response to 218– Oh, what if a Jew (no offense intended, I would be happy to know a more polite way of saying that) said “It doesn’t take much to become a Christian.” How would you reply? You would say something to the effect of ” Zark off, infidel” and make a cross or some stupid Christian thing like that. Really, you need to look at things from all angles before you say them.
By the way, why are you Anonymous?
216- An eternal doom that he created for those he can’t ‘save’, by that logic. You make your deity sound like a crazy megalomaniac.
Sorry for the double post, I have more to say to 222.
222- Our life is meaningless, though. We exist only to reproduce, that is the point of life. Yes, it makes life seem pointless, but it is true. We are here to *cuts description short* have sex and reproduce. No more, no less. We’re just the same as an ant in that respect, that we only exist to survive. There is no “greater good”, no Heaven or Hell. Just us, and survival. Excuse me while I go off to think depressed thoughts having put things in perspective.
RE: “irreducable complexity”- you know, for all of its supports, ID and creationism could have come up with something better. That is a agrument FOR evolution. think about it: if an animals has a helpful feature, it is more likely to survie than an animal without that. the first animal will pass on that Helpful feature to it’s children. after thosands of years, all the aniamls have that Helpful feature.
hope you see that “irreducable complexity” helps the case of evolution.
the man for aeiou, Christian and evolution supporter.
222- What you’re saying is Pascal’s Wager…
however, there are criticisms of Pascal’s Wager (getting this off the wiki):
-assuming that god rewards belief
-the Atheist’s Wager: “You should live your life and try to make the world a better place for your being in it, whether or not you believe in God. If there is no God, you have lost nothing and will be remembered fondly by those you left behind. If there is a benevolent God, he may judge you on your merits coupled with your commitments, and not just on whether or not you believed in him”
-assuming belief has no cost
-not true belief, because it is based on reward
-assumes divine awards are infinite
-assumes that the correct god is worshiped
And here is Pascal’s Wager, again:
You live as though God exists:
-If God exists, you go to heaven: your gain is infinite.
-If God does not exist, you gain nothing & lose nothing.
You live as though God does not exist:
-If God exists, you go to hell: your loss is infinite
-If God does not exist, you gain nothing & lose nothing.
On an entirely different subject:
I recently watched “Hedwig and the Angry Inch”, again. Man, always thrills me. Freaking fantastic movie…. but that’s not the point. Tommy Gnosis, the main character’s lover, is raised religious. Anyways, his opinion on the Garden of Eden and the apple and all that, was a positive experience. I’m trying to find the exact quote online, but he says something akin to “a god like that, who would put an apple filled with knowledge in paradise, and tell them not to eat it…he’s the kind of guy who wouldn’t just stop there”…does this make sense? idk, I’m distracted….
(225) Glassboro,
You might be here just to reproduce, but I’m here to find out interesting things about the universe, answer questions, be nice to cats, go contradancing once in a while, help people to write better, and distract Musers from their homework. I don’t think that’s depressing at all.
Well, we can’t just reproduce. We have spare time to make up stuff to do and call it worthwile.
Do you have children, Robert?
Not just extra time on our hands, but a lot of extra capabilities as well — memory and imagination and creativity and the ability to be moved by music and words. The things we “make up” are wonderful. I wouldn’t swap them for anything ant life has to offer.
None of the GAPAs has children, as far as I know. We’re like Hogwarts teachers in that respect. If we did, we’d always be busy hauling them off to soccer practice and things and wouldn’t have time to be here.
228- I don’t mean me in particular (I enjoy life, too) but the whole human race. What are your religious views, by the way?
We GAPAs have made a pact not to talk about ourselves very much. That’s not what MuseBlog is for. The policy makes us much more fascinating and mysterious than we are in real life, but that can’t be helped.
Anonymus- l agree that this could go on and on and on, but all l’m doing is defending myself.
233- I also feel that I have the right to defend my beliefs. But I don’t want you to feel like I’m trying to sway you.
You weren’t defending your beliefs. l didn’t attack them. l merely told about my religious beliefs, seeing as this is the religions thread, and you attacked them.
# 37 Lady Cinnamon
I agree. I personally don’t believe in God, but I do believe that there had to be some spiritual force behind the whole thing.
You know, one question that I’ll bet even the GAPAs can’t answer, is what the heck was there before the universe was formed.
I mean everything had to come into exsistance somehow. So how did things like atoms and molocules come into exsistance.
I dare the GAPAs to offer a satisfying answer to this question.
228- you put it so nicely. *hopes are raised*
234/235- oh come on! that is such a childish argument! i can feel your anger from here!
236- before there was the universe, there was a big crunch of the old universe, and back along for ever.
236- I’m sure it was a spiritual force. The big bang, the galaxies, the stars, and everything happend in just the right way so that it made a beautiful universe. And the Earth that has just the right conditions to support life forms like us–it’s like we’re the purpose of existence.
How self centered. The problem with religion is that it fails to grasp eternity. Sure, it can happen in the future, but the past is also eternal. And sure, it may be beautiful, but honestly, wouldn’t anything in any chance be from perspective?
Instead of reposting this, you can just read this.
It would be inappropriate to start my writings off with “In the beginningâ€, because the theory that I believe is most probable one is that the universe is a never ending cycle of an unimaginably large group of matter consisting of orderly but somewhat random components stretching out to its greatest limits and then retracting into a microscopic ball of great density over a span of many billion years. This chain is infinite and was not created by any being; it simply just existed and will forever exist, unless some force of seemingly impossible power should accidentally intervene. This is no great danger for our part of the cycle, for due to the theory of relativity, it would take such a force so much time, unless it could travel a seemingly infinite amount times the speed of light, that our planet’s matter would already be recycled into the next link of the chain.
Life is purely a random quality. We will never know if universes prior to ours have contained it, or if it will exist in a future universe, but it is likely that there has been something similar in a previous one. For all we know, our cells once belonged to some past alien and we are in a sense, all reincarnations of planets, stars, gas clouds, or some foreign unimaginable objects.
However, in expansion of matter that brought the incredible, beautiful, quality of life into our universe, a proportionally small bit of hydrogen gas experienced a fusing of its atoms, flattened out, and sent a fiery halo into space. When all this calmed down, the thing that we owe everything to, the sun, came into being. A cosmic speck, our sun soon gathered many bits of matter around it, and those bits of matter combined to form the planets of our solar system. Those essentially less evolved forms of matter orbited the sun in the forms of the asteroid belt and the Kuiper belt.
The third planet from the sun was covered in molten lava. Colliding pieces of rock and ice collided to envelope the lava in land and sea, and this was when life started on Earth.
Many people say that humans can exist on Earth because it can support life. I believe that in the universe, there are many other forms of life that are either far too small or too large to see, and that Earth’s properties merely shape what its life forms are like physically.
Life on Earth started as simple chemicals reacting off of each other that created functions. It’s most likely that they originated underwater, because it takes up a majority of the Earth. These chemicals grew larger and packed closely together to create the first cells; likewise, these cells bonded together to make the first plants. Since the atmosphere consisted mainly of carbon dioxide, these chemicals often consisted of it and plants adapted to take it in, breaking it down and excreting just the oxygen. This pure oxygen mixed with iron, creating the air we currently breathe.
Back in the water, plants started to mutate and grow into different varieties, which evolved so that certain parts had certain functions. The first animals evolved until the Earth had the first worms, complete with brains and organs. Essentially, all evolution is, is mutations that benefit a species. If a mutant’s mutation help’s it survive, it will pass on its genes, and it’s entire species will end up like it. These worms branched off into many species, the most dominant ones called the trilobites. The trilobites were shelled creatures that would eat almost anything. They ruthlessly fought other animals, which goes to show that humans haven’t been the only animals to unfairly dominate the environment. However, we may be forced back into caves by some animal with an all new evolutionary feature, because some time into the trilobite reign, the first fish evolved. The early fishes had the first backbones, which made fish faster and stronger than anything else. These fish ventured onto land, where they evolved to breathe the oxygen with iron in it and became the first amphibians. These evolved into lizards, which evolved into birds and mammals, and it is then that people’s general knowledge of ancient time begins: the time of the dinosaurs. I will go no further, because most people have a decent grasp of what happened from there on.
240- Who wrote that?
241- I think Agagabagabag.
Paragraph #1- I believe God was there in the past, and He will be there in the future. The Bible doesn’t say much about the past because God doesn’t find it important.
Paragraph #2- “In the beginning” probably meant when the big bang happend. I believe that God didn’t make any universe before ours.
Paragraph #3- That’s an empty way to think of it. I think there is something deeper then that, something spiritual in all of us. Other animals don’t contain it, their brains are wired just to survive.
Paragraph #5- How would other life forms survive? We have not discovered any place in the universe with conditions remotely as good as Earth.
Paragraph #6- Chemicals reacting with each other started life? Its got to be more complicated then that.
Paragraph #7- Yes, but how did monkeys turn into intellegent humans like us? So we find a few “primitive human” fossils. What do they prove? Maybe humans have been around longer then we think, or monkeys are smart. In any case, I don’t believe humans evolved from worms.
Paragraphs 1 and 2: Why would god wait an eternity to create something?
Paragraph 3: That’s only because humans, with our advanced brains, feel a need to be something more.
Paragraph 5: You’re missing the point. The conditions on earth are good for beings based on the substances found on earth. It’s relative.
Paragraph 6: That’s pretty complicated. l just put it simply.
Paragraph 7: Why not? It’s a gradual process. Or are you just being a snob?
240- can I just say that, to convay your atheism a bit more, you need to change that thing about “the thing we owe very thing to, the sun” because it sounds like you worship the sun, and you are a pagan, not an atheist.
244-
Paragraphs 1 and 2- He’s eternal, and He had to create us sometime.
Paragraph 3- But maybe we are something more.
Paragraph 5- So how do you know there’s other life forms in the universe?
Paragraph 6- So maybe life did start out from chemicals. But I believe humans were simply created by God.
Paragraph 7- I believe humans are set apart from animals. We have a spirit and a conscience, and they just have a will to survive. What evolutionary advantage does that give us, and what kind of mutation could occur? None that I know of. No matter how advanced your brain is, it does not explain our sense of right and wrong.
246- 1 and 2- What did he do for the rest of his time?
3- Why do you want to be more than you are? Christianity isn’t satisfied with what we’ve evolved with.
5- Because nature abhorrs the vacuum, right? l’m getting the feeling that you’re not fully understanding me.
6- Okay… we’ve been over that.
7- Well, what’s our spirit? And as for our conscience,
1. It seems to be underdeveloped.
2. Our brains could evolve. Specifically the descision making part, as we discover that we can harm each other.
Why do you think that nature abhors a vacuum?
248- I think that it was sarcasm, saying that “Of course there won’t be life anywhere else, because life would never evolve there” or something of the sort.
I don’t think so. On the General Science thread, agagabagabag said he thinks there is life on other planets — everywhere, in fact:
https://musefanpage.com/blog/?p=1102#comment-32
But he doesn’t explain what’s objectionable about vacuums.
No, I mean saying that that’s what he thinks the religious peoples mean. I’ve got to go to bed, though, so I’ll type more later.
I wasn’t being sarcastic. Why does nature abhor the vacuum? *Pontification…*
Ah! logically, the universes planets are planets because they follow certain laws, no? Why is earth an exeption?
If there are no other planets capable of supporting life, why did God make the rest of the universe? For show?
So you’re not talking about a literal vacuum — you’re speaking metaphorically, about planets. And you reason that because all planets obey physical laws, every one of them contains everything that exists on Earth?
254- I don’t think that’s what he’s trying to say. He probably means that since all planets obey certain physical laws, it’s extremely unlikely that Earth is unique in such a vast cosmos.
Exactly. Thank you.
255 – seems reasonable to me. The probability odds are definitely in favor of there being life on other planets. After all, we’ve only sent probes out as far as Pluto, and that’s, like, an unbelievably small distance compared to the rest of our galaxy alone, much less the entire universe.
Anonymus- What will be your reaction if life is found on other planets?
Sorry if I’m a little late…but these are my results:
1. Neo-Pagan (100%)
2. Mahayana Buddhism (95%)
3. New Age (94%)
4. Theravada Buddhism (93%)
5. Unitarian Universalism (88%)
6. Liberal Quakers (76%)
7. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (71%)
8. Hinduism (70%)
9. New Thought (69%)
10. Secular Humanism (66%)
11. Nontheist (61%)
12. Jainism (60%)
13. Sikhism (56%)
14. Orthodox Judaism (55%)
15. Bahá’à Faith (49%)
16. Orthodox Quaker (49%)
17. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (47%)
18. Reform Judaism (46%)
19. Scientology (45%)
20. Taoism (43%)
21. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (41%)
22. Eastern Orthodox (38%)
23. Islam (38%)
24. Roman Catholic (38%)
25. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (35%)
26. Jehovah’s Witness (35%)
27. Seventh Day Adventist (27%)
Dude…I didn’t even know there were this many religions…:shock:
Oh, by the way, sorry to double post, but I figured out that I can except everything about Christianity…as soon as I believe in God…help?
240- If I were you, I would research the link between plants and the first ‘worm,’ as you called it. It’s an important part of the process; getting from plants to animals, and should provide enough information to give the reader a clearer picture. Perhaps mention animal-like and plant-like fungi, is where some believe things began to grow more complicated.
Also, it’s not always so much mutations as already present characteristics that define a species changing. Mutations have a part in it, but many are harmful instead of helpful. On the other hand characteristics such as size or speed can be beneficial in certain situations (such as running from a predator or catching prey) and the ones that are so are more likely to survive, reproduce, ect.
Sorry to but in on this evolutionary/creation/why did God ____ discussion, but I’m Christian and I still think that evolution is a possible (not certain, possible) explanation of life on Earth, and I also beileve that Earth is not the only planet capable of supporting life. And if they’re capable, they probably can. We’ve just gotta come to them or let them come to us.
I don’t have any unshakable evidence, scientific facts, or even theories to support this. I just beileve it to be so, from what evidence I’ve been given throughout my life.
Also, does the question “Why did God ___?” really have an relivance? He either did or didn’t, he either is or isn’t, and whether we’re gonna find out or not isn’t the point. Asking (or answering) why God waited such a long time dosn’t prove anything.
And I belive if he wasn’t, we wouldn’t be.
247- Para. 1 and 2- Maybe he was planning for the huge universe he was going to make. But I agree with Beavo–why do you bother asking? Does it really matter?
Para. 3- Life would just be so… empty.
Para. 5- We haven’t found any real evidence of life on other planets yet. Despite the size of the universe, there are no hospitible planets besides Earth. Just think–how easy is it to make a planet like the Earth?
1. The planet would have to be at just the right distance from a star.
2. The planet would have to have an atmosphere that can burn up meteors and other space junk.
3. The planet would have to be geographically stable.
4. The planet would have to be in a relatively calm solar system, with no large asteroids and planets that crash into other planets, etc.
5. The planet would have to survive long enough for life to form.
6. The planet would have to have a substantial amount of water.
And even if some microbe colony was surviving on another planet, how does that disprove Christianity?
Para. 7- Your spirit is like a cup, it fills with God.
Your conscience is like a muscle, you have to exersize it to get it to work well. People who ignore their conscience let it become weaker and weaker until there isn’t anything left to ignore. That is why there are evil people without guilt on the Earth.
253- God made the universe for us. He only cares about us, you know. But I’m not being selfish–I’m just saying that God is loving.
258- I doubt that would happen. But if we do find extraterrestrial life, I wouldn’t become an atheist. The Bible never says there isn’t anything alive out there, it just says we are what God cares about most.
262- I’m pretty sure that life evolved on Earth. I just think humans were something seperate.
That part that takes up most of your post proves that you haven’t been listening.
264- no it does not. it proves he has no argument.
Or she. But yeah.
I still don’t get what you mean about the vaccum. Could you put it in words that I can understand?
Judaism values stories, right?
268-well, they certainly have a lot of them. and rabbi jokes. i’ve heard almost as many rabbi jokes as blonde jokes…
263- Allow me to try to explain, seeing as you don’t seem to understand anything l’m saying.
l’m suggesting that life isn’t necessarily restricted to existing on one set of conditions. Our life evolved to survive on our world with its conditions. Therefore, other planets could have life that adapted to their conditions.
270- I see your point, but we still haven’t found any life forms yet. And as I said, even if there is life, it doesn’t disprove the existence of God.
right, i haven’t really been involved in this argument, but i’m going to have to poke my nose in now…
“it’s like we’re the purpose of existence.”
first of all, wow. That seems to me like an incredibly arrogant thing to say. second, it does seem to imply that god didn’t mean there to be other life, since you apparently believe the universe was made for us.
and there is other life. Infinity is infinite. meaning, we don’t know. We can never explore the entire universe, and we can’t assume we know everything about it. And who says this other life is in our solar system? Or even our galaxy? Maybe the chances of a planet like Earth are so astronomical (heh) that it only happens once in every galaxy. it’s certainly possible, and would explain why we haven’t found anything yet. And i think it’s just as arrogant to believe that we’re the only life in the universe. i can just picture a group of aliens on the other side of the universe (the infinite universe, so not really on the other side, but very far away) saying “well, i don’t think there is any other life in the universe. i mean, wouldn’t we have found them by now?”
i think that although early evolution is a theory, the basic practice of evolution has proven itself over and over again. it’s impossible to argue against evolution itself, only against the theory that humans evolved in the past from animals. (which is all people think of when they say evolution these days anyway, which is rather depressing). And again, i think it’s just arrogance to say that although evolution does exist, we certainly didn’t evolve because you know, we’re humans. And they’re monkeys. And god created us. Because we’re so awesome. We’re so awesome that we don’t even know how to take care of our own planet, and we kill each other off for land and money and power and lock each other up and take each others’ basic rights away…yeah, we’re pretty awesome. no one like us. god must have created us, eh? we’re just the best. Much better than monkeys. I mean, they live in trees. never mind the people that live in the streets.
idk, sorry if that was all overly snarky, but just the general idea of thinking you’re better than anyone else just annoys me. a lot. as you can probably tell.
272- Thank you, ebeth. I feel the exact same way.
273-really? i would have thought you’d disagree, considering the content of your last few posts.
who is ARW?
275- Who knows? It’s evident that he/she is a christian of some sort, but besides that, ARW is completely mysterious.
I meand ARD!
Is the Bible always scientifically correct?
278-no. Joshua commanded the sun to stand still, not the earth.
279 – Technically speaking, that’s the same thing. The sun and the earth move relative to each other. And the meaning is that the sun’s position from Joshua’s point of view stayed the same. But either way, it’s not scientific. Miracles never are. (if you don’t believe in those types of miracles though, never mind.)
Well. I’d just typed a post on how in an infinite universe, there *had* to be life in it somewhere, if not many multiple times, due to the nature of infinity, but then safari quit and I don’t d=feel like doing so again right now. But it was basically that, yeah.
281- Was it something along the lines of:
In an infinite universe, every possible event has to occur not only once, but an infinite number of times.
Here’s what I got…
1. Unitarian Universalism (100%)
what the..? it cut of my post
hopefully my post doesn’t get cut off…
1. Unitarian Universalism (100%)
283 to 285- that is odd.
l think l’ve kinda won.
287- How is that?
Well, let’s see.
l got you to admit that given my arguments, a deity could not be supreme. And what is a deity if not supreme? l believe that a god can exist in another universe, but not a supreme one.
l also made you repeat yourself despite my counterstatement in our life on other planets discussion.
289- 1. Hm, are you talking about the lift-a-rock and the all-knowing thing? If so, then you just don’t understand. If God could make a rock that He couldn’t lift, then he wouldn’t be all- powerful. Same with the all-knowing.
2. Forget the life on other planets discussion. Does the Bible say the Earth is the only place life exists?
And one more thing: Many people, not just atheists, don’t understand why God lets bad things happen to us. It is because God is all-righteous. He may be a kind God, but He has to do everything right. So He deals out judgement to sinners. If He didn’t, then He wouldn’t be perfect.
Look, l don’t feel that l have to say anything more. You’re waffling.
291- Waffling, eh? Please explain yourself.
Saying that “l just don’t understand,” and again, saying things that l’ve already countered almost verbatim.
The Administrators prefer to stay out of religious arguments. In my role as occasional referee, however, I feel obliged to point out that paradoxes (1) are easy to formulate and (2) don’t prove very much.
For example, I could ask “Can God create a square triangle?” If you say “no” (arguing that nothing can be both triangular and square at the same time), does that really place a limit on the Supreme Being’s supremacy? It seems to me that the inability to do something self-contradictory isn’t much of a limitation.
Anyway, that too-heavy-to-lift business is ancient. I’m sure Thomas Aquinas must have written about it in the Summa Theologica. It’s worth looking into, if you’re serious about getting at the truth (and not just trying to score points).
Ouch! Well, the fact is, if a paradox didn’t prove much, would it be a paradox? And did you accuse me of just trying to score points?
It’s not an accusation, but yes, I’d say you do try to impress other people with verbal formulas. That’s not a crime, but it makes it harder for the rest of us to understand what you’re really trying to say.
l’m not the one who posted that paradox, and l don’t really think it’s fair for you to only point out my flaws.
297-or for you to point out other people’s…or flaws in religion! hint hint
I wasn’t singling you out about the paradoxes. (I just happened to post that comment after one of your comments, but you weren’t even talking about paradoxes.)
I guess I’m just uneasy about the way this thread has developed. It’s good that the discussion has remained civil — which puts it decidedly ahead of some earlier religion threads. But I don’t see why it has to take the form of a debate that people feel compelled to “win.” When it’s framed that way, everybody is going to try to score points against one another, using rhetorical tricks or anything else that will do the job. Nor do I see why Anonymous Religion Discusser needs to be anonymous.
So I’m sorry if I seemed to be singling you out for criticism. It’s really the whole tennis-match atmosphere of the thread that bothers me. Discussing religion is one thing, but arguing about who “won” the discussion seems un-MB-like.
You know what would be MB-like? If you were to switch sides, and each give the strongest arguments possible in favor of the other’s position. I think that would be a spectacle worth watching, and educational for everybody involved. I don’t expect it to happen, though.
299- Hm, that seems like a cool idea. *switches sides* Why is it that God makes us evil and suffer? Eh?
298- Religion’s flaws makes flaws in people, which is why l point them out. Robert has every right to point out my flaws, but should point out others too.
299- Well, what l meant by “win” was that l am convinced that ARD has inwardly acknowledged my ideas and knows that theyr’es truth to them. l have done so vice versa, but not as much as l suspect has happened, because l never tried to hide anything by posting ideas that had already been countered. l may try your idea, but not completely.
300- lf there’s a god, it’s not evil. But if humans suffer and it doesn’t prevent it, then it’s not omnipotent, like you admitted, which contradicts your religion.
301- but it never said the lord, your GOD (titles!) is omnipotent.
301-you just pointed out how hyppocritical(how do you spell that) that was. Plus, the idea is not “protect us from harm and we will worship you,” just for reference.
Hmmm…how can I switch sides? It’s hard to go around saying, I see this flaw in this religion, that’s just not me, but maybe if I try real hard…mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm*pop*
301-wiat a minute…are you trying to suggest that because you have no religion, you are flawless?
The occasional referee flags another attempt to score easy points.
Maybe instead of switching sides, maybe you should consider summarizing the discussion so far. As it’s unfolded over many posts and weeks or months, it’s been a bit hard to follow.
301- The reason God doesn’t prevent suffering is because He is a judgmental God. If He didn’t judge us, He would not be all-good.
OK a couple things before this. First of all, I am 1/2 jewish 1/2 christian, but I am bar mitzvahed and practice judaism.
I am not sure i get the entire point on christianity. Explain this to me, if Christianity is a religion that preaches love and nonviolence, why are they responsible for the mass genocide of the Jews in the Holocaust, the Crusades which killed over a million Jews and Muslims, and the extermination of 95% of all native americans? All the leaders of those genocides were christian, and they said that they were doing gods work, with the possible exception of . (Crusades were holy war called out by pope, native americans by “manifest destiny”).
My father (who converted to judaism) was a native american who is also a Quaker. I believe in the Quakers views on christianity because other christianity is hypocritical. The christians have the and other groups. I’m not saying that Judaism and Islam have radicals too, but in christianity, especially in the native genocide, the christians who were scalping and mutilating the of natives were considered “normal” while the quakers were considered “radical”. In islam, the normal Muslims believe that the ists are radical.
Of course, every religion has its flaws, but the christian one has a major flaw. Of course there are scientific problems with the Bible, and I’m not saying its 100% right, because we dont make cow sacrifices any more now do we? However, I do believe in YHWH because I am thankful for the miracles (s)he has given to me, auch as food on the table, loving parents, etc etc etc.
Another topic that has been brought up here is if we are the purpose of existence. Remember that it says in the bible that the animals were created BEFORE the human, not after.
I have my own set of beliefs, i dont really belong to a certain group. I believe in what i want to believe. For example, i dont believe in stem cell research, the War in Iraq, homosexuality, or abortion, but i do believe in the deth penalty and cloning.
Bill Richardson/Barack Obama/ John Edwards/Mike Huckabee
Well, basically everyone but Mitt Romney,
Cliff Eagle Teh Pwnage
307- The Crusaders and the mass genocides were not Christian-like. They just called themselves Christians, and they were using their faith as an excuse to kill everybody. They were hypocritical, but that doesn’t mean the concepts of Christianity itself is hypocritical. And they did animal sacrafices back then so that God would forgive them for their sins. But because Jesus died for us, we don’t have to make animal sacrafices anymore. Lastly, God made the animals first so that the world could function and support man.
how can you be for death and cloning when you think that stem call research and abortion is bad? stem cell research is needed before cloning!
307- Please explain what you mean when you say you don’t believe in homosexuality.
309/310, etc…
Please move these discussions to the hot topics thread.
Thanks!! Religion is a hot topic, but it requires its own thread. Cliff Eagle started this, but before we start having arguments on both threads I thought I would post the link
But, before I go, I would like to thank Cliff Eagle for liking Quakers!
*is a Quaker*
Red-tailed HAWK
311- The discussion can say on this thread. It involves religious beliefs. There is no need to move to the HT thread.
312-Well…that’s tricky. I think of this thread as for more talking directly about your religion, not the side beliefs, and now we are even talking just about the side beliefs with no religious thought, simply opinions. Even educated argument on the subject that didn’t speak about religion would be a bit off-topic…I guess I’m just worried this will get even more argumentative, especially bad if it isn’t on the main purpose of the thread. I don’t mean to be mean, I’m just concerned…
Red-tailed HAWK
304- No. Religion doesn’t cause all flaws. duh.
310- it goes against my religious beliefs and my moral beliefs. other people may have different ones, but these are mine, live with it.
Also, i meant to put cloning in the “do not like” category. whoopsies. I know you cant do cloning without stem cell research. and im not for deth, just the deth penalty, but thats for the HT thread if anyone wants to talk.
315-does that mean that you personally don’t believe in homosexuality for yourself or do you think that your personal moral beliefs should dictate the actions and freedoms of others? (whether they happen to be commonly held beliefs or not)
315- No, I’d like to know what exactly your beliefs about homosexuality are. I respect your opinion, but I want to know why you think that way.
I believe in respecting everyone’s religion, as long as they don’t use it as an excuse to do Bad Things. (Victorian capital for Importance.)
318-that’s the big issue, isn’t it, figuring out how much you can impose your own moral standards on others for the good of the community. some things are obvious, like murder could never be allowed, and the freedom to practice your own religion should always be allowed. i think most people agree on those two points. but anything in the middle is fuzzy. personally, i think as long as it’s not causing harm to anyone else, it’s fine.
one thing that I’ve been curious about for a long time but have never really asked religious people since it’s kind of a rude question:
do you actually, truly believe in a god / gods, or do you just know you should believe? and if you do, why?
I”m not sure that makes any sense; maybe explaining where I’m coming from would make it a bit clearer. I am an atheist. I come from a non-religious family. And the existance of a god has always seemed so illogical and unlikely to me that I have trouble seeing how any intelligent person can actually truly believe in the various dogmas. And I know a fair number of intelligent religious people, seeing as I live in teh depths of the bible belt. Any explanations?
Could I be changed to Abrahamic the next time someone posts a list? I’m also down under my old name of Chill. I’m a practicing Christian, but feel that all three major branches follow the one God I believe in.
320~ I truly believe in God, but when I was younger, I’m sure I couldn’t fully understand the concepts of religion, just that I was supposed to. I’ll also bet that a good number of my peers don’t really care, they just know that they should. For me it comes from the facts that we’re here, and still living. The cosmos is ginormous. string theory says it could be one of many. It works both ways for me, it’s all big enough for life to start, that’s no problem, but keep going?! The odds seem in our favor.
TO all who asked:
Leviticus (Vayikra) 18:22
Do not with a man as one does with a woman, for it is an abomination to YHVH your God.
Therefore, it is a sin for everybody, including other people. I won’t like, kill them like it says in Leviticus 18:24, but I believe they will go to hell.
But seriously, if you want to talk about this issue, please go to the hot topics thread.
320-I kind of wish I believed. I definitely did, once, but I’m not so sure anymore. Now, I think it would be just easier if I didn’t question anything, but it’s kind of too late. I admire anybody with some kind of sincere faith, as long as (as KaiYves says) they don’t use it as an excuse to do Bad Things. However, right now, I don’t really think about it that much, because it’s kind of an uncomfortable subject for me to think about by myself. Or I’ve just kind of come to terms with my possible non-belief.
320- I believe in my God because there is no evidence of his nonexistence and because I think the universe would be empty without him. Plus, I’d like to think that we get rewarded or punished for the things we do on Earth.
320- No. I am not religious either, and I also have a hard time comprehending that people can believe without question everything the bible says. I mean, even if there was a supreme God, the Bible was still recorded and interpreted by humans. And we are flawed beings, we make mistakes, we don’t comprehend everything. We close our minds to things and ignore them, while twisting others.
That’s part of the reason I find evolution so believable too… there’s room for error, and corrections, but now if you question even just one part of a religion, or disagree with it, you’re immediately omitted from ‘true’ belief.
Also, if said God existed, why would it be so wrong to disagree with some of what he said/thought/ect? We are not all the same, we don’t share one mind. And because of this we would suffer for eternity and not be allowed into the Christian heaven? That just seems so… I don’t know. But I don’t think I would choose to worship such a god anyway…
321- To quote PC and avoid reposting the long post I lost a ways up there, “In an infinite universe, every possible event has to occur not only once, but an infinite number of times.” This makes more sense to me why life has happened and continued here, even though it is such a small percentage chance that percent is nothing compared to infinity. This is related to the second half of your post only.
322-that’s all i really wanted to know, but when you use your religion to argue a political issue i think it becomes a religious discussion which can easily belong here on the religions thread
new theard?
327- I second that.
no GAPA?
Can we have a new thread…?
320 – I am an atheist and make no secret of the fact. I go to a secular Jewish Sunday School. However, when I was younger, I went to a fairly traditional Jewish temple. I recall feeling like I should believe in God but finding the idea a bit ludicrous and incomprehensible, especially the whole omnipotent and omnipresent part. I’m not sure if this is what you were wondering about.
Is there anyone who’s Jewish on MuseBlog?
Tons, ARD.
(332) See comment 62, above.
2 things:
1. People say that the bible is up for interpretation, but according to the bible:
“For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. LIkewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful and recieving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due”
-Jammin’ J, quotin’ the bible, post 27.
How is this up for interpretation?
2. Robert, FS was banned on a former thread for calling RtH a wimp. Did Donaldo get banned for telling all the atheists on HT that they were going to hell?
https://musefanpage.com/blog/?p=952
post 227. The GAPAs did nothing about it.
He said:
Anyone here who isn’t a Christian is going to Hell, whether they believe it or not. There are no second chances, so FS-I guess you will be tortured in eternity in the fires of Hell! Good riddance!
(335) You need to consider the context. Donaldo was stating the consequence of a religious doctrine that he believed (i.e., that all atheists go to hell). FS was singling people out for name-calling, and the attack that led to his week in the “penalty box” was the last straw. That incident took place months ago, though, and I don’t see a need to revisit it now.
l know it happened months ago, but l still think justice is nescessary. lf a religious believer “stated” that their belief involved rascism and stated it by calling a black person the n word, would you allow that? As for singling out…
“…FS-I guess you will be tortured in eternity in the fires of Hell! Good riddance! “
338- Donaldo had a reason to be upset. FS had said earlier:
“Folks, we’re dealing with someone who is preconditioned by what we here call, “quei coglioni di estrema destra religiosa”. In other words, the Christian Coalition. We have here a person who is against individualism, freedom of choice, liberty of thought, and everything in the American Constitution because of a folk-tale he believes”.
Yes, but still, there are better things he could have said.
l think l missed post 61. Evil is not the absensce of good. Passivness is the abscense of both good and evil. Good and evil are opposites. Is black the absence of white? Is white the abscense of black? Evil is a deliberate attack to good.
(338, 339) FS was not suspended over a single incident, but for a pattern of behavior. The issue was not the content of his beliefs, but the manner in which he bullied persons four years younger than himself. He had been asked more than once to be more civil. He chose not to be.
Same thing. Donaldo was begged to be reasonable, but he continued to insult the Atheists on the thread.
And also, Rebecca, the content of beliefs referred to Donaldo. It may have been his beliefs, but he expressed them in an offensive way.
New thread?
342- At least he was civil.
343- He had a right to be upset.
344- Good idea.
Define Civil! Perhaps you’re Donaldo? How did he have the right to tell me l’m going to hell?
This thread is meant for discussing Religion and Religions. It is not a place for rehashing old arguments about two people who are not even here. And we won’t be in any hurry to start a new thread unless we see evidence it will be used as intended.
347- Rebecca, you remember the fight on the last pie war? the new thread allows more people to see it, and and the argument is forgot.
(348) You have a point, TMFA. Therefore, request granted.