MuseBlog Book Club
By very popular demand.
Now being discussed: Coraline
His Majesty’s Dragon, by Naomi Novik
Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell
Coming soon:
Date: October 11, 2007
Categories: Fiction, poetry, and fanfiction, Things We like
Comments RSS TrackBack 176 comments
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1
Ebeth
in October 11th, 2007 @ 18:01Yay! So are we doing jonathan strange?
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Alice
in October 11th, 2007 @ 18:10Yay! So is the book Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell? (Come on, jammin j, back me up here!)
How long should we wait before discussing? I could at one point read JS&MN in two days, but not now that school’s started. I reckon any book we pick will be pretty long, so….
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Alice
in October 11th, 2007 @ 18:13I’ll start reading right away!
…After I finish my biography (ten or twenty more pages) and One Kingdom.
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Purple Panda
in October 11th, 2007 @ 18:47Yes. The book shall be Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell.
How long is the book? I’d say we wait about a week. Does that sound reasonable?
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Kiki the Great
in October 11th, 2007 @ 19:20Cool! I’ll get it out of the library ASAP. Emphasis on the P.
We should have a deadline of which to read it by.
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Alice
in October 11th, 2007 @ 19:224- Not really. It’s like 800 pages or something. How about two weeks? Or we do it like last time where we read chapters and discuss them.
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Ebeth
in October 11th, 2007 @ 19:38Haha, Alice i love how we posted right in a row with almost the exact same comment.
i guess i’ll get it from the library…hmm…prolly sunday or monday, because tomorrow’s my b-day party and then sat. i have driving skewl and a football game (a school and a catholic school in the area share a stadium, so one of them has to go saturdays) and sunday the library’s open for like three hours so it’s hard to catch.
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Ebeth
in October 11th, 2007 @ 19:39*eep* double post but PP, how about two weeks? That gives people more time to get a copy of the book and read it and almost do a bit of hw all at the same time (or ish) Then if enough people are done at the end of one week, we can just go ahead anyway
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Beavo the Online Stalker
in October 11th, 2007 @ 19:394-Never read it.
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Capricious The Great and Terrible (cappy)
in October 11th, 2007 @ 19:45I’d adore to join this book club, but I’ve got two other books I’ve been dying to read. (Twighlight and TTYL)
I will certainly join in on the third or fourth book!
Also, this is a wonderful idea!
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Alice
in October 11th, 2007 @ 20:269- You could try it. Although, granted, the idea of you reading JS&MN is laughable. It’s not really your style.
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12
Gimanator
in October 11th, 2007 @ 20:52sounds good to me. perhaps we should set chapter deadlines? like: by tuesday, chapter 13…
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Purple Panda
in October 11th, 2007 @ 21:18I like the idea of finishing the entire book before discussing, but then we would need to wait awhile and the discussion would be really choppy. So I think chapters is a good idea. We’ll have chapter deadlines/days we start discussing chapters, and once we’re done with the whole book we can discuss it as a whole.
I think we should give everyone the weekend, then a few more days to get the book, and then read. So should the first few chapters be ready by next week?
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14
Beavo the Online Stalker
in October 11th, 2007 @ 21:3511-Does anyone care to give a short summary? I aggree, it dosn’t sound like anything I would read. It first reminded me of Dr. Jeckel and Mr. Hyde.
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oxlin widdershins
in October 11th, 2007 @ 21:53I’ll review my copy of it! (yes, Alice, I bought it) It’s a good summer read but a rather hefty thing to be starting ourselves off with. I enjoy it though so I don’t mind^_^
yayayayay!
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16
MontgomeryGurl
in October 11th, 2007 @ 22:19Ah, resurrecting the book club. Kind of failed miserably the first time, probably because we made an idiotic move and chose a monster of a depressing novel (Nicholas Nickleby by Charles Dickens). I even didn’t finish it, for the same reason everyone else quit: After the muffing scene, it was a real drag. That’s the way with Dickens. One hilarious scene with some muffins, and then abject poverty.
If y’all ever read a book that I want to read I’ll probably join you. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that y’all will pick bad books. It’s just that I have shelves full of brilliant novels that I’ve been meaning to read for years, and I kind of made up my mind that I’m closed to recommendations until after I finish a bunch of them. If you ever read any of the books I have, I’d really love to discuss this stuff with you. Honestly, though, I doubt that’ll happen. All my books are at about the same level as Nicholas Nickelby.
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oxlin widdershins
in October 11th, 2007 @ 22:36May I reccommed Coraline (by Neil Gaiman) for a nice refreshingly short book after JS+MN?
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Alice
in October 11th, 2007 @ 23:0014- This is a book club. You don’t give summaries. Or wait, did you mean so you can see if you’re interested?
This is hard one to describe…It’s about two magicians, Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell, the first of which is very into old fairy stories, et cetera (a guy called the Raven King in particular), and the second of which does not believe in such things. It starts in 1806 and ends in 1816. During the course of the book, there are mad kings, fairies, blue men, and ships made of mist. There isn’t really one set plot, so it’s really hard to describe. Just read it. It’s good.
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Alice
in October 11th, 2007 @ 23:0017- Ooh yes! Coraline is good.
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oxlin widdershins
in October 11th, 2007 @ 23:0418- well, Norrell’s into the raven king so that he almost wishes to be raven king like but at the same time fears the raven king. strange almost flirts with the raven king type ideas whilst norrell runs from them.
oops. I just started discussing. never mind me… *wanders off*
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Alice
in October 11th, 2007 @ 23:1320- Haha. Don’t get too excited, oxlin. Give it a week for people to read the first few chapters.
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oxlin widdershins
in October 12th, 2007 @ 00:0121- I know. I was just pointing out some things and then I sort of kept going. I think we should read the whole book first. It works a lot better that way. I’m just… eager.
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Robert Coontz (Administrator)
in October 12th, 2007 @ 07:50If your library has the audiobook version (recorded on CDs), I can recommend that. I “read” the book that way while figuring out my taxes last year, and the reader does an excellent job.
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Alice
in October 12th, 2007 @ 11:3622- I’m already done with chapter 1, though, so by the time people have got the book and read the first few chapters I’l be done and dying to discuss it.
I already am, in fact.
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25
Glassboro
in October 12th, 2007 @ 12:30Er…So should I try to keep up with you people? Or not bother?
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oxlin widdershins
in October 12th, 2007 @ 17:0325- don’t worry, we haven’t started discussing yet! We’re wating for you to get the book and read it!
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Alice
in October 12th, 2007 @ 17:1225- Try at least.
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Purple Panda
in October 12th, 2007 @ 19:01I requested it from the library, so it should come in sometime this weekend or early next week. When are we going to start discussing? Are we reading the whole book first, or doing chapters?
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Robert Coontz (Administrator)
in October 12th, 2007 @ 19:14Spoilers could pose a challenge.
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30
the man for aeiou
in October 12th, 2007 @ 19:2829- MUSEBLOG BOOK CLUB SPOILER MUSEBLOG BOOK CLUB SPOILER MUSEBLOG BOOK CLUB SPOILERS
and so on.
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31
jammin j
in October 12th, 2007 @ 20:51js and Mn! yess! problem:i am punished from books indefinitely. well, i remember the book pretty well. it took me two months of off and on reading to finish teh book, so two weeks would kill me.
i’d would say there actually is no definite plot, but a series of conflicts. the main conflict is the conflict between the master/apprentice relationship between jonothan and mr norrel. oops, i’m already discussing. whatever. i loved the book; it was the most well written peice i have probably ever read. thanx again alice!
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Alice
in October 12th, 2007 @ 21:2631- You’re punished from books?
*sends books disguised as apple pie*
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Alice
in October 12th, 2007 @ 22:48“He is mystical, my lord! He is mystical!”
Haha.
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Purple Panda
in October 13th, 2007 @ 08:13Apparently my mom owns the book, so I can start today!
*waits patiently for mother to find said book*
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35
Ebeth The Titleless
in October 13th, 2007 @ 10:31i got the book from the library w00t! It’s the smallest book i have checked out right now, besides the sandman book of dreams (which i should return, since i’m done with it…)
That just seems very wrong somehow, when you think about all the hw i haven’t even started plus the two 400+ word torch stories about mayoral candidates (so if i mess up, i’m screeeewed) plus football game today because schools are stupid and share a stadium plus soccer game plus haircut plus church plus eye doctor’s.
why am i on the blog again? *panics and leaves*
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Kagcomix the Special
in October 13th, 2007 @ 12:09um… i totaly want to join the book club buuut, it might take me awhile to get my hands on the book in question. don’t most book clubs meet once a month? or at least, can we not change the book for a month so every one can read it but you can discuss when ever. just putting Bokkclub spoiler thingy.
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Beavo the Online Stalker who is NOT going to read Jonathen Strange & Mr. Norrell no matter how long Alice's name is when she posts and no matter how long eternity of dissparoval is
in October 13th, 2007 @ 14:47Alice I’m NOT going to read it no matter how long your name is when you post and no matter how long eternity of dissproval is.
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Beavo the Online Stalker
in October 13th, 2007 @ 14:48And now I see what you mean about posts vanishing into thin air. Not even a Awaiting Moderation note! I feel so lonely….
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purpelfinch
in October 13th, 2007 @ 15:18Hooray! *Rejoices* So I should re-read JS&MN?
I actually managed to squeeze a mention JS&MN into my book report (For another book), much to the confuzzlement of my English class, and my English teacher.
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Alice is shortening her name (*sniff*)
in October 13th, 2007 @ 15:2737- You spelled it wrong.
I pity you, poor self-deprived soul that you are. *looks at Beavo down her nose which has lengthened expressly for that purpose*
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Alice is shortening her name (*sniff*)
in October 13th, 2007 @ 15:4739-
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Beavo the Online Stalker
in October 13th, 2007 @ 15:5640-Well, you said yourself the idea of me reading was laughable.
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Præriliu§ Cænix
in October 13th, 2007 @ 16:35I saw it at Borders, but it’s so expensive that I don’t want to get it. I’ll look for it at the library, though.
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44
TNÖ
in October 13th, 2007 @ 22:56This is a very interesting coincedence. I started reading yesterday… LOL
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45
oxlin widdershins
in October 14th, 2007 @ 12:2339- what book?
PraCan, I’d recommend purchasing it as it is a long book and quite a nice one to own. I bought mine for four to eight dollars in hardcover at an used bookstore. Do you know of any near you?
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Præriliu§ Cænix
in October 14th, 2007 @ 12:3445- I’ll check my local used bookstore.
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47
Ebeth
in October 14th, 2007 @ 12:5837-why not? it’s a good book! i actually just bought it off the B&N website for cheapsies *lurves the bargain books section* that and rosencrantz and guildenstern are dead, which is a movie so it doesn’t belong here *kicks it out* although i think it’s a book too…
Anyhoo.
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Rebecca Lasley (Administrator)
in October 14th, 2007 @ 13:04(47) Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead started life as a play by Tom Stoppard.
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Ebeth
in October 14th, 2007 @ 13:0748-aah, that would make sense. anyway, i think it’s hilariously funny. i have an odd sense of humor though.
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Præriliu§ Cænix
in October 14th, 2007 @ 13:0747- Actually I think I saw it on the bargain books table at Borders for something like 7 bucks. But I won’t be going to Borders until next weekend.
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jammin j
in October 14th, 2007 @ 15:2945-i bought my copy for 50 cents! heehee. it was a used library book, but in new condition. it was sweet…
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Purple Panda
in October 14th, 2007 @ 15:41Are we going to create some sort of deadline/time to start discussing books? If so, when?
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53
purplefinch
in October 14th, 2007 @ 15:59I got mine at Borders on the former bestseller table, or whatever. It was $6.something, although that’s not quite as good of a deal as fifty cents!
My dad was organizing his library, and he was muttering “Rosencrantz and Guildenstern”, and I shouted “are dead!” really loudly (I remembered the title of the play from Tam Lin by Pamela Dean, although I do want to read the actual thing, and not just references to it). I think he was rather surprised…
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Alice
in October 14th, 2007 @ 16:32I got mine for Christmas when I was eleven! Even if I hadn’t, it still would have been worth buying. I’ve read it three times and lent it twice (to the same person, who recently bought her own copy).
52- I don’t know how busy other people are, but let’s say…a week from now? Two weeks? A day?
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55
oxlin widdershins
in October 14th, 2007 @ 16:5953- haha. Yay Tam Lin!
I’d heard of Rosencrantz and Guildenstern rather vaguely before reading Tam Lin and I do wish to read that/ see that I suppose as well.
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Robert Coontz (Administrator)
in October 14th, 2007 @ 17:14Nobody has mentioned that they’re minor characters in Hamlet. Tom Stoppard had the bright idea of moving them to center stage and giving us only brief glimpses of Shakespeare’s other characters. And (49) it is often hilariously funny.
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Ruffled Grouse
in October 15th, 2007 @ 05:5056-That’s what I had thought…
55-Yay!
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MissSwann2223
in October 15th, 2007 @ 11:13WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??? Which book??? And how can someone be grounded from books??? If the mysterious book you are talking about is so freakin’ good, why don’t you tell me what it is so i can read it. If we are discussing wicked books, read MAXIMUM RIDE BY JAMES PATTERSON.
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TNÖ
in October 15th, 2007 @ 11:2858- Calm down. Take a deep breath. Inhale, exhale.
…There. Doesn’t that feel better now? At the moment, we’re discussing Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrel. As you would know if you bothered to read the bold print at the top of this page. Also there’s a bit of a side conversation going on about Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead. Which you would have gathered if you read the thread (hah! that rhymes! LOL…)
And Maximum Ride isn’t all that good anyway. I mean, sure, it’s a page turner, but I honestly wasn’t that impressed.
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MissSwann2223
in October 15th, 2007 @ 16:00What planet do you live on??? Max rocks more than whatever bland old lady aftertaste books you’ve been reading. And sor-ry i didn’t look at the top of the page until directly after i posted. Why do i feel that you are surreptitiously belittling me???
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The Raven of the Hawk
in October 15th, 2007 @ 16:1060- Why do I feel like your acting superior to everybody else? Drop the attitude, Swann.
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Ebeth
in October 15th, 2007 @ 16:41So…has everybody at least read the first couple chapters by now? How about them Yorkshire magicians, eh?
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oxlin widdershins
in October 15th, 2007 @ 16:4358- ummm, we’ve already got a book to discuss. In bold print. at the top of the page. Yeah. If you didn’t see that then look more carefully next time before making assumptions. If you dislike the book we are discussing, discuss your own elsewhere. Also, while yours may have been enjoyable, it probably does not lend well to the sort of questions we wish to use such as “How does the author use the symbolism of the Tarot cards to forshadow various events within the book?”
“Max rocks more than whatever bland old lady aftertaste books you’ve been reading.”
I’m sorry. Would you please actually *look at* and *consider* our book before making such statements.
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purplefinch
in October 15th, 2007 @ 17:45You happen to not share the same tastes in books as some of us, but you don’t have to impose your views upon other people…
And I would read JS&MN before making judgements, although it’s technically an adult book, unlike Maximum Ride.
The Yorkshire Magicians shouldn’t have been tricked like that, because I think they’re generally nice (if kind of stuffy and judgemental and annoying) people. But is Norrell any better? The only difference is that he’s magical, and they’re just scholars.
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TNÖ
in October 15th, 2007 @ 19:0760- Well, I alternate between Musica, Earth, and Hot Pink Bunny Land. And, as far as your suggestions about “old lady aftertaste” books goes, I can only assume that you haven’t ever actually tried reading them, and can only say, “you poor deprived thing.” Also, how old are you?
64- I agree.I ♥ the spelling in this book.
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purplefinch
in October 15th, 2007 @ 20:2865-Like “shew” and other fun things!
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Ebeth
in October 15th, 2007 @ 21:0464-Norrell bugs me. I hate how he tries to get a monopoly on magic by not letting any other magicians study or anything.
Also, as an old lady, i feel extremely offended by that remark.
kidding, i’m not an old lady, but imagine if i WERE. You would be utterly screwed. Think before insulting people, please.
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TNÖ
in October 16th, 2007 @ 08:2367- Yeah, he destroys the careers of every other magician he finds, but he wants to return practical magic to England. That doesn’t seem very well… thought out, y’know?
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Robert Coontz (Administrator)
in October 16th, 2007 @ 09:23That’s one of the interesting things about Norrell: he’s both likable and unlikable. He does good things, even great things, not because he’s Good-with-a-capital-G, but because he’s ambitious. He does bad things for the same reason.
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MissSwann2223
in October 16th, 2007 @ 10:31Sorry, i’m cranky and tired. I am trying not to be superior; it just slips out when i’m cranky. And i am also sorry to any old ladies that are reading this right now and thinking, ‘whaaat???’ I just checked out js+mn outa the library and am reading it.
But Max still rocks.
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MissSwann2223
in October 16th, 2007 @ 10:48Have you forgiven me? [cowers uncertainly]
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Ebeth
in October 16th, 2007 @ 16:07*pie of forgiveness*
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oxlin widdershins
in October 16th, 2007 @ 16:16I agree with Robert, ambition is Norrell’s motivation. It is interesting that he seems to wish to collect all the books and even seems to learn about the Raven King himself but reprimands Strange if Strange tries to. He almost seems to be putting up a facade of anti-Raven King studies. To him it seems that everything’s okay as long as he’s the one who does it. For anyone else, he doesn’t agree to it. I think his (unachievable for he’s born at the wrong time) is to be like an aurate magician. He wishes to be known as he who ushered in another aurate age of magic.
Strange also keeps things to himself a bit. When he is told that people have been claiming to have been taught by him he vehemtly denies that he’d ever teach anything to anyone.
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TNÖ
in October 16th, 2007 @ 18:54*pie of forgivness* I will do that to, sometimes. Especially when I am stressing. But yes, read JS+MN, it’s good. So far.
I feel so sorry for Norrell, what with Dawright or whatever his name is being so pushy and contolling. That would suck, being in a crowded city after a life in the country and having someone who just wants you as a friend so he can be benefited himself…
:idea:TNÖ:idea:
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Ebeth
in October 16th, 2007 @ 19:0074-without him, norrell probably wouldn’t have gotten anywhere though…he would have just stayed in his house and learned for himself instead of putting his knowledge to use.
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TNÖ
in October 16th, 2007 @ 19:3875- true, true.
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77
Gwendolyn of the Eastern Seas
in October 17th, 2007 @ 20:42Hm. I shall have to persuade mi madre to drag me to the library on Friday. It sounds like a fascinating novel.
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TNÖ
in October 17th, 2007 @ 23:16Or rather, to allow you to drag her.
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purplefinch
in October 18th, 2007 @ 05:2174,75,76 etc-But he did still annoy me, even though, in a way, he saved England.
77-Yes… dragging to the library is always fun…
–wow. I haven’t done Gr. Green in so long! 70-That’s okay, I do that too, sometimes. *Pie of happiness*
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Ebeth
in October 18th, 2007 @ 16:00So we’re a week in…does that put most people at halfway through the book?
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Purple Panda
in October 18th, 2007 @ 16:2680 – Not necessarily. Depending when people got the book, I guess. I’m about 1/4 so far, but I’ll probably finish it over the weekend.
Are we going to make deadlines for finishing chapters, or just discuss it at random?
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TNÖ
in October 18th, 2007 @ 17:5180- I’m about 1/4. I’ll probably finish it sometime this weekend.
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Purple Panda
in October 18th, 2007 @ 18:16I think we should wait a little while longer. Since this was Alice’s book choice and she’s not here, I think we should wait. (I’m not sure how long it will be until she returns). Plus, some people aren’t finished yet.
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Ebeth The Titleless
in October 19th, 2007 @ 12:45how many parts are there again? 3? 4? (i’m somewhere near the beginning of the 3rd…)
anyway, mebbe we should extend the time a bit…it seems like most people are in the first quarter. then again, you people probably have more weekending time than i do…
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Prarilius Canix who cannot WAIT for NaNoWriMo to begin in 13 days
in October 19th, 2007 @ 16:36Is it too late to join? I’ve read up to chapter 19… and I only got it yesterday…
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Prarilius Canix who cannot WAIT for NaNoWriMo to begin in 13 days
in October 19th, 2007 @ 19:30I’m on chapter 29 now. Can I join the discussion? *hopes*
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Alice
in October 19th, 2007 @ 19:32AGH! The book is in my basement and my computer is in the blackened shell of a house all melted and ruined! Oh no! Help!
Sorry about that. But it is how I feel. I really really really want the book. *sniff* And I want to discuss it but all I can think of now is how desperately I need it. *reaches fingertips towards the basement which happens to be about an hour’s drive away*
But at least it’s safe! While I was watching the fire I kept thinking about my book and how it was going to be ruined and how I needed to finish the story before it consumed me.
Perhaps I get a bit too involved in my books…
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Prarilius Canix who cannot WAIT for NaNoWriMo to begin in 13 days
in October 19th, 2007 @ 19:50I guess I can’t help you without violating copyright law…
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Prarilius Canix who cannot WAIT for NaNoWriMo to begin in 12 days
in October 20th, 2007 @ 14:10I’m in the early part of the third volume. More detail on the exact chapter after I run up to my room and check the location of my bookmark.
So can I join? Or am I hopelessly behind everyone else?
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Alice
in October 20th, 2007 @ 14:5089- I think you can join. That’s where I am too.
Luckily for me, my dad took my book to the country house along with almost everything else, so now I have it.
Yay!I stayed up until 1 AM last night (or should I say morning), reading. It’s such a good bok. And so thrilling…
Ohgod, now I want to read it and I don’t have it with me. I am at a library, though…
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Prarilius Canix who cannot WAIT for NaNoWriMo to begin in 12 days
in October 20th, 2007 @ 15:0490- It is so brilliant that I think it merits its own genre, historicofantastical fiction.
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Ebeth The Titleless
in October 20th, 2007 @ 18:42finished! being sick does have a few advantages…not many though *wants to see across the universe waah*
anyway, it was just as spiffytacular as last time! i did notice things i missed reading it through the first couple times (is this my third or fourth time? have i mentioned? because i don’t remember…grr)
anyway, huzzah! and yaaay, alice’s book is safe! wewtywewt! k done celebrating things for now. until somebody else announces that they’ve finished, or something equally exciting.
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oxlin widdershins
in October 20th, 2007 @ 23:3987- you have it?! Oh good! When I first heard about the fire, one of my first thoughts was “I want to send Alice a copy of Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell!” You love it so and I felt if you’d lost yours it’d be appropriate. but you hadn’t so yay!
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Prarilius Canix who cannot WAIT for NaNoWriMo to begin in 11 days
in October 21st, 2007 @ 11:45I finished!
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95
Gwendolyn of the Eastern Seas
in October 22nd, 2007 @ 14:39I went to the library. They had one copy, and it is in excellent condition.
This book is FANTASTIC. I’m only on page 16, but I already love it.
Yay, Alice! If a book like this burned, that would be a shame. Not only is that a tremendous loss of paper, but also a sad theft of lovely entertainment.Might I suggest the first book in the Stravaganza series by Mary Hoffman after JS&MN? It is a pretty light read, relatively speaking, but very good. And if we read large books like this one all the time, there are three books in that series, and they’re nice little transition-clinchers. Think of it as an after-dinner cup of coffee after a tremendous meal.
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Prarilius Canix who cannot WAIT for NaNoWriMo to begin in 10 days
in October 22nd, 2007 @ 14:4395- Will do.
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oxlin widdershins
in October 22nd, 2007 @ 16:5995- HA! Even if we did do those instead of Coraline I’ve read them allready too! so I’d not have to read a ton that I’d not already read again. But are we doing Coraline and then Stravaganza? After JS+MN?
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Alice
in October 23rd, 2007 @ 18:41I think it should go like this:
JS&MN (too lazy to type the whole thing)
Coraline
City of MasksAll three of which I’ve read, some more than once.
Anyhow, I finished it this morning in English, and, due to the fact that I was in class, managed not to cry – much. I don’t think anyone noticed. Also I noticed some things that I hadn’t noticed before, but of course I didn’t write them down so let’s see if I can remember them…
1) If Strange could only see the fairy when he was mad, and Mr Norrell could see the fairy without in any way altering his reason, does this mean that Norrell was already partly mad?
2) If Stephen Black had learned his true name, he wouldn’t have been a nameless slave anymore. Would he still have been able to rule? Or did the prophecy just understand that he would never learn his name? Did the gentleman with the thistle-down hair intend to keep Stephen from taking over the gentleman’s kingdom by trying to make Stephen king of England?
3) (and the most obvious) Why didn’t the Pillar of Darkness vanish when the gentleman died?I have recommended this book to just about everyone I know and several people who are mere acquaintances, and I need more copies so that I can lend them all out at once.
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jammin j
in October 24th, 2007 @ 14:0598-i can answer your third question. the works of a magician last far longer than the magician himself. the raven king and his minions created the magical roads(or, at least helped the faeries to) and those existed after the raven king dissapeared. so the pillar of darkness lasted even after the “gentleman with thistledown hair” died. i have a question about why they never gave tgwth(gentleman with thistledown hair) a name. you cried at the end of that book?
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jammin j
in October 24th, 2007 @ 14:0758-maximum ride*chuckles at the absurdity* what an outrageously cliche book. i read all three. i laughed myself to death at some parts and just shook my head over the corniness of other parts.
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Prarilius Canix who cannot WAIT for NaNoWriMo to begin in 9 days
in October 24th, 2007 @ 16:352- The prophecy just understood. And remember, the actions of faeries are far from logical. As it says in the book, “by human standards they are barely sane.” GWTH took such a liking to Stephen on a whim.
1- GWTH chose to reveal himself to Norrell because he wanted to become his helper. He didn’t like Strange, and so decided to remain unseen.
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Gwendolyn of the Eastern Seas
in October 24th, 2007 @ 19:26Hm. I’m only at the part right after Mr. Norrell resurrects Emma Wintertowne. However, I have already decided that Mr. Norrell is one of the greatest paradoxes: a magician without (or with very little) imagination. He is like the man with much book-learning who doesn’t know how to apply his knowledge to the real world, nor cares to do so.
Input, anyone?
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Prarilius Canix who cannot WAIT for NaNoWriMo to begin in 8 days
in October 24th, 2007 @ 19:37102- I quite agree. He seems to value knowledge for itself, not for its value. I like Jonathan Strange better.
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oxlin widdershins
in October 24th, 2007 @ 20:39102, 103- yes! he hoardes it like in his library!
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Alice
in October 25th, 2007 @ 18:1299- But Lady Pole was freed at his death and Lost-hope was begun anew.
101- I don’t think that TGWTTH liked Norrell. But maybe he did sense that Norrell would be easier to deal with than Strange, who actually had a will of his own AND wanted to learn the fairy’s magic.
102,103,104- *agrees*
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Gwendolyn of the Eastern Seas
in October 28th, 2007 @ 18:43My question is, to all you brave souls who replied, what is the point of Mr. Norrell gathering knowledge for himself if he has no real purpose for it? Is it some kind of psychological satisfaction that he gets from the idea that he is intellectually superior to others? That’s what I believe it is. I think this is also the reason he snubs the authors from whose works he educated himself, which renders that entire facet of his personality either deeply hypocritical or poor in logic. If he puts little credibility in the sources from which he learned to be a magician, than why be confident in his abilities as one at all?
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Prarilius Canix who cannot WAIT for NaNoWriMo to begin in 4 days
in October 28th, 2007 @ 23:29106- I think you’re right.
My question is a simple one, and perhaps I didn’t read carefully enough, but I would like to be enlightened.
Why does Lascelles kill the champion of the Castle of the Plucked Eye and Heart? He seems to have no logical purpose in doing so.
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jammin j
in October 29th, 2007 @ 16:49107-whoever told you lascelles was logical? like that thing between him and drawlight. he’s a comlete idiot. and i hated norell for not sticking up for drawlight. ick.
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Prarilius Canix who cannot WAIT for NaNoWriMo to begin in 3 days
in October 29th, 2007 @ 17:49108- I know, perhaps it wasn’t a logical reason, but he must have had a reason.
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Alice
in November 1st, 2007 @ 17:41106- Agreed.
107- He’s the kind of person who likes to duel. That’s the only reason I can think of. Plus it proves his “superiority” to Childermass if he has the “honor” to duel.
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Alice
in November 10th, 2007 @ 13:19Wow, this died.
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Robert Coontz (Administrator)
in November 10th, 2007 @ 13:22Everybody is too busy writing books.
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Disappointed
in November 19th, 2007 @ 01:4299 – If anyone’s still reading these posts…Sorry, this explanation for the pillar of darkness continuing to exist after the fairy gentleman dies just doesn’t wash. The Raven King simply disappeared from England – he didn’t die (he returns and brings Vinculus back to life after all). So becauses he still lives, the faery roads still exist. That the p of d still exists after the death of the fairy who cast the spell breaks the internal logic of the book and spoils my enjoyment of what is otherwise a great read.
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Prarilius Canix, taking a break from NaNoWriMo
in November 20th, 2007 @ 17:55113- Here’s my theory:
Gwth (let’s call him that, as- in addition to it being the initials of what he’s called, it’s a sort of Welsh-sounding name, and Welsh pwns) set a specific duration for the spell- darkness, misery and solitude for the rest of Strange’s life. A spell with a non-set duration continues drawing purpose from you for the rest of your life, and only ends when you perish or cause it to end. Spells with set durations obviously take more energy to perform (unless it’s a very small period of time), which is why Gwth, although a faerie of enormous age and power, was so exhausted after performing it.
However-
Does anyone have an instance in which a spell ended upon the death of its caster in the book? I can’t recall one (although it would make sense).
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Alice
in November 22nd, 2007 @ 00:44114- Erm…I know there is one…but I can’t think of it.
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Vixen in the Eyes of the Moon
in November 25th, 2007 @ 13:06UUUmmmmmm, what is the next book?
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ebeth
in November 25th, 2007 @ 14:13aww, i missed the discussion :'( darn nano
well according to alice’s list, the next book would be coraline. and then city of masks, which might be a book i just read but might not. about a kid who has cancer but goes to a place kind of like venice when he falls asleep? or is that something else?
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Alice
in November 25th, 2007 @ 15:27117- Yup, that’s City of Masks.
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ebeth
in November 25th, 2007 @ 15:32118-sweet, i just read that a couple weeks ago then! good book
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Prarilius Canix, taking a break from NaNoWriMo
in November 26th, 2007 @ 19:35When shall we start discussing Coraline? (I’ve already read it.)
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the man for aeiou
in November 28th, 2007 @ 12:30120- I’ll just throw two sence in. how about decmeber fisrt?
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ebeth
in November 28th, 2007 @ 15:46i haven’t been able to request it at the library, due to massive fines that i have just paid off, but i’ll request it now and probably get it dec. 1st. which is actually a saturday isn’t it? so i’ll probably be done by the 2nd if you guys want to start discussing it on the 1st
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Alice
in November 29th, 2007 @ 22:38My copy burnt up. It was on my mom’s bed.
Ah well. I’ll check it out from the library.
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kricket
in November 30th, 2007 @ 16:07So Coraline is the book we’re reading/discussing? Okay, I’ll get my mom to take me to the library.
123- aw, that’s not good… *is sad for Alice*
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purplefinch
in December 3rd, 2007 @ 07:15I did this for an English assignment last year for JS&MN, and I thought it was kind of fun, although I know some parts aren’t accurate or whatever. We had to write a persuasive letter, acting as the main character… but the formatting got kind of messed up when I copied and pasted… I did, however, include those “inside jokes” in the original edition, like “42 Purple Finch Avenue”, and “Douglas Dent”. What can I say? It amused me.
Impenetrable Darkness
Venice,Italy December 30, 1816Douglas Dent, assistant editor
The Famulus
42 Purple Finch Avenue
London, EnglandDear Assistant Editor and all true friends of English magic:
I harbor a deep respect for Mr. Norrell, seeing as he was my first and only tutor in the art of magic. However, he has wrongly influenced the English public in several matters, one of the most notable being the delusion that only a select few may study magic. In fact, he would be perfectly content (nay, overjoyed) to be the only magician in the whole world! Furthermore, he has denied one of the most famous and worthy of all of the magicians of elder days, John Uskglass, or the Raven King, as he is often called, did anything at all of importance at all! But do not listen to the ramblings of an elderly man. English magic is for all of England! You cannot horde it, or try to suppress it! It must be free for all to study and practice.
Two magicians are simply not powerful enough to defend England in case of another war. And, God forbid, if something should happen to one, then we would be open to attack, especially by the villainous and ruthless French. Now, a whole army of magicians would be an impressive sight indeed!
Norrell keeps all of his books of magic locked away; I, myself, have only glimpsed several. It is rather sad that the man who is, supposedly, one of the saviors of England will not even permit a fellow Englishman to read some of his many books. I have had to struggle by, using lesser texts, while he sits upon his wealth of titles and simply gloats.
For years, Mr. Norrell has preached against theoretical, fake, lower-class and female magicians. I fully understand his hatred against people who only pretend to wield power, but why should only wealthy men who actively practice magic be able to hold the title of “magician� Catherine of Winchester was famous and talented, and she was female! People who study magic theory are eligible too, I daresay, along with any other English citizen who has the slightest inclination towards the supernatural. In fact, England is practically a nation of magicians!
In the end, you, regular, brave, trustworthy citizens of this noble island will shew all others that magic does not distinguish between types of people. The very earth resounds with potential power, thanks to John Uskglass. Re-create the Learned Society of York Magicians, if you must (though most of them were tiresome bores), but now include all kinds of people! Make new kinds of associations, everywhere. Even small hamlets should have a well-informed study group. Learn as much as possible, and do not take my rival’s word as law, or fact. Britannia will certainly succeed and flourish if we all search for truth and knowledge.
Sincerely, and with all due respect,
Jonathan Strange
P.S. As you very well know, I am actually the editor of this periodical. However, due to my temporary self-induced madness, I assume my assistant has taken my place and continued to send out the publication on a regular basis.
P.P.S. Could someone please help me escape from this dreadful column of darkness?
P.P.P.S. Oh. And has anyone seen my wife?
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purplefinch
in December 5th, 2007 @ 14:16Ah, I’m sorry. It’s kind of clogging up the thread… I didn’t see how long it was before I posted it… *hides in shame*
123-Awwwwwwww… *sends you a copy magically*
So, shall we start?
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Alice
in December 6th, 2007 @ 13:05125-
The postscripts are wonderful.
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ΡÖŞÎĈ
in January 22nd, 2008 @ 17:22Let’s discuss Coraline. Who else here thinks that the cat knew more than he was letting on/was more than he appeared/had his own agenda?
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greekgurl the Latin speaking geek freak!
in January 22nd, 2008 @ 17:39128- oh!! like the cat in the hat! but not…
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Unintended Pun (10 spdzk points?) is mad at her english teacher.
in January 22nd, 2008 @ 18:29128-Aw I need to reread that. I read it in 5th or 6th grade and I really liked it, but it’s been too long to remember much.
Unfortunately I have required reading for school and various clubs so I can’t read anything I want to right now.
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Alice
in January 22nd, 2008 @ 19:39128- I do.
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POSOC & Mim
in May 15th, 2008 @ 21:13RESURRECT MUSEBLOG BOOKCLUB! CLICK ON THIS COMMENT!
Anyhow, should we continue with Coraline or choose another book to discuss?
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Alice and Timon (and Monica)
in May 15th, 2008 @ 22:32132- Let’s discuss His Majesty’s Dragon!
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POSOC & Mim
in May 15th, 2008 @ 23:01133- Since we’re the only two currently on here, and we’ve both read it- well, why not?
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Alice and Timon (and Monica)
in May 15th, 2008 @ 23:26134- Sweet! *is excited* OK. When I started reading it, I was so frightened there was going to be another one of those telepathic dragon-human relationships, where each can feel what the other’s feeling, you know. Those are OK, but not really much fun to me anymore, after reading half the Pern series and the first two books in the Inheritance trilogy, it’s just overused. But it’s not like that at all, and Temeraire is such an endearing character, and I like Laurence too–which is unusual for me. Generally, if you take a character and give him something like a dragon who chose him out of a ship full of naval officers, I would immediately dislike him, but for some reason I don’t. I don’t know why. Maybe it’s because Temeraire has such a distinct personality, and because no one on the ship wanted to put the harness on the dragon.
Plus this particular era is my favorite.
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POSOC & Mim
in May 15th, 2008 @ 23:30First of all: I think the author uses Temeraire’s naivete to poke fun at 19th-century social conventions. In his startling innocence, he proposes things such as draconic representation in Parliament and wonders openly why women are barred from the military. Captain Laurence does his best to explain why the customs are right and proper, but he starts to doubt that either of those things are true. This is more obvious in Throne of Jade, but it’s also mentioned in His Majesty’s Dragon.
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Alice and Timon (and Monica)
in May 16th, 2008 @ 17:59136- Makes sense. And the bit about not belonging to the King.
The dragons being the trainers – that’s cool. Another blow to the overused dragon-plots.
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POSOC & Mim
in May 16th, 2008 @ 18:23137- I also liked the fact that while dragons are certainly intelligent, they have animal traits- they are not enlightened, mystical, reptiloid human beings.
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Alice and Timon (and Monica)
in May 16th, 2008 @ 18:34138- Yup, yup. This is without a doubt the best dragon book I’ve ever read. Actually, I’m going to stop staring at a screen and go stare at a piece of paper with little black marks on it, blinding myself so that when I look up, everything appears brownish. More incentive to go on reading.
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gimanator
in May 16th, 2008 @ 18:39Oo, this is a good book, yes? Perhaps I should read it…
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Alice and Timon (and Monica)
in May 16th, 2008 @ 19:03140- Yes, do!
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Ź√Ҳ
in May 16th, 2008 @ 19:21you are NOT the only ones here!
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Alice and Timon (and Monica)
in May 16th, 2008 @ 19:55142- Not anymore, but we were when we began the discussion. Read the book, and then you can join in!
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The Bookworm & Lurline
in May 16th, 2008 @ 20:03What’s the book? I’d be happy to read and discuss!
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POSOC & Mim
in May 17th, 2008 @ 11:11144- His Majesty’s Dragon, by Naomi Novik. If Jane Austen wrote Eragon, it would probably turn out something like this.
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Alice and Timon (and Monica)
in May 17th, 2008 @ 11:39145- Jane Austen should have written Eragon. It would be so much better if she had.
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POSOC & Mim
in May 19th, 2008 @ 17:11I read on the HMJ website that Naomi Novik is doing a short story set in Temeraire’s world during the days of the Romans (who were the first Europeans to harness dragons). That got me thinking about the history of other nations in this setting.
Take America. They’re just scattered along the East Coast at present (1806, if I recall correctly), so they wouldn’t have access to many different breeds of dragon. The Lewis and Clark expedition might have changed that- they sent back a lot of stuffed specimens and detailed reports in “actual” history, so I imagine they could have found a staggering number of breeds in the vast Louisiana Purchase. Also, we can’t overlook the French aid that they were given during the Revolutionary war- in Temeraire’s world, that might have extended to a couple of eggs. I don’t think that France would have given away any of their triumphs, like the Flamme-de-Gloire or the Fleur-de-Nuit, but even a few basic varieties such as the Pecheur-Raye might have improved the wild bloodlines.
I wonder what an American Civil War would look like in this universe… imagine Sherman’s March to the Sea with a couple of fire-breathers flying air support, or the Battle of Mobile Bay… and as for Antietam… *shudders*
That’s what I like about the Temeraire series. There’s so much detail, yet a lot is left to the imagination.
Also, despite the surprising parallels that appear, there is much that is different. The most obvious difference is the mention of the Incas. Sir Whatshisface (fellow who determined Temeraire’s breed, forget his name) said something along the lines of “…no European or Incan breeder can match this…” which implied that the Incas were on a par with the Europeans as far as dragon-breeding goes, and furthermore weren’t reduced to an indigenous minority by war and disease. The latter conclusion is supported by a mention in Throne of Jade of “trading difficulties with the Inca.” The fact that trade and diplomacy is conducted with this nation shows that the Conquistadores weren’t quite as successful as they were in real history, possibly due to the Incas’ previously mentioned strength in the field of aviation.
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POSOC & Mim
in May 24th, 2008 @ 12:52Thoughts on one of the major historical deviations in His Majesty’s Dragon? Please? *thread is dying*
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Alice and Timon (and Monica)
in May 26th, 2008 @ 14:25I don’t know enough about history to be able to comment, really, but I have been thinking, how many dragons are there, d’you reckon? I just finished ToJ, and it seems that even in China, there aren’t many dragons in comparison to the number of humans, which sort of made me wonder if the species was always sort of rare, or if it declined drastically for some reason.
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Alice and Timon (and Monica)
in May 26th, 2008 @ 14:26147- Some dragons might have been sent to the colonies for breeding, and then America seceded, so they probably have more species than are native.
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POSOC & Mim
in May 26th, 2008 @ 15:18149- Probably habitat destruction. Dragons are very large, flying creatures, so it follows that they need vast tracts of undeveloped land to hunt in. Populations were either tamed, forced into breeding grounds, or died off because they didn’t have a large enough range. It’s mentioned that there are still some wild populations in Germany, and probably large groups in sub-Saharan Africa as well, if the synopsis of Empire of Ivory is anything to go by.
150- Yes, there are some breeding grounds at Newfoundland, so I imagine there would be some in the Colonies as well.
So, how about those Incas?
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Alice and Timon (and Monica)
in May 26th, 2008 @ 15:42151, re 149- Yeah, that’s what I thought.
151- What about the Incas? I can but agree, having nothing to add to your excellent surmise.
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Cat's Meow and Aume
in May 26th, 2008 @ 16:23I have never noticed this thread before. How strange.
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oxlin
in May 26th, 2008 @ 18:00Once we’re done with Naomi Novik’s books can we discuss Coraline as planned? and then maybe something else?
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Alice and Timon (and Monica)
in May 26th, 2008 @ 18:23154- Fine by me.
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POSOC & Mim
in May 26th, 2008 @ 20:37152- Well, why did she add such an obvious change to a novel that is otherwise very close to real history (aside from Nelson surviving Trafalgar)?
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POSOC & Mim
in May 26th, 2008 @ 20:37154- Certainly.
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Alice and Timon (and Monica)
in May 26th, 2008 @ 20:49156- Oh, there could be several reasons. Perhaps it comes into play later on, or perhaps it was originally significant, but she cut it out later. Or perhaps she’s simply fond of the Incas.
We should ask her.
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POSOC & Mim
in May 26th, 2008 @ 21:02158- I’ll check her website, see if she has an e- and/or snail-mail address.
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POSOC & Mim
in May 26th, 2008 @ 21:07No address on her website. Pity.
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Alice and Timon (and Monica)
in May 26th, 2008 @ 21:18160- Livejournal, then.
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Alice and Timon (and Monica)
in May 26th, 2008 @ 21:22Or not. I feel rather uncomfortable on most blogs.
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POSOC & Mim
in May 26th, 2008 @ 21:31162- I thought her Livejournal was a blog, not a forum. But I guess you can still post comments…
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Alice and Timon (and Monica)
in May 26th, 2008 @ 21:53163- Exactly. Except it feels sort of off-topic.
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POSOC & Mim
in May 26th, 2008 @ 22:04164- Besides, you need a Livejournal account, something I don’t have.
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Alice and Timon (and Monica)
in May 26th, 2008 @ 22:53165- You can post anonymously, and I do have a Livejournal account, though not an active one.
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Alice
in June 21st, 2008 @ 15:16OOH. I think the Incas may prove to be important at some point. I’m reading BPW, and I just came across this, in reference to Britain getting hold of some fire-breathers:
“And we were in negotiation with the Incas, not twelve years ago . . . but it all came to nothing, in the end; we offered them a kingdom’s ransom, and they seemed pleased, then overnight they returned us all the silk and tea and guns we had brought them, and ran out of the place.”
This could just be an interesting reference to a little tweaking of history, or it could actually turn into something significant.
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POSOC with 5 BP and 60 IWP
in June 28th, 2008 @ 20:24167- Yeah, I thought about that too. BPW takes place during 1806, right? So it would be about 1794. That was right in the middle of the French Revolutionary Wars, wasn’t it?
I imagine that the wild dragons the Incas had access to would have been quite small, due to the scarcity of resources in their mountain habitat, but since the Incas were expert enough breeders to create fire-breathers and acid-spitters, they could have conceivably bred up to a middleweight.
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POSOC with 5 BP and 60 IWP
in July 6th, 2008 @ 17:06I just read Empire of Ivory. One word: Squeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And a further mention of the Inca, who are probably my favorite nation in Temeraire’s world, mainly because they’re so mysterious and out of place.
Also, I read the excerpt from Victory of Eagles on Novik’s website, and I can’t wait to read the rest. Fortunately, it comes out in TWO DAYS!!! must… get… to… bookstore… during… vacation…
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Alice
in July 6th, 2008 @ 17:43169- I know, isn’t it good?
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POSOC with 5 BP and 60 IWP: 14 wung points, embedded (bara brith)
in July 15th, 2008 @ 23:48I just got Victory of Eagles, and I really loved it!! I will probably rant about it on the Ranting and Spazzing thread.
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Purple Panda
in July 16th, 2008 @ 06:05Wow, this thread is active again! I’ve never read HMD, even though I’ve checked it out of the library a few times. I just never got around to it. (I’m one of those people who will go to the library, check out 50 books, then read as many as she can before she has to return them).
I’ll get it this week, and if the discussion is still going on when I’ve finished it, I’ll definitely contribute. I can definitely make Coraline, though.
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Catkopelli
in November 29th, 2008 @ 10:33I love books.
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Alice
in January 12th, 2009 @ 19:06Should we actually discuss Coraline now? I can get it from the library tomorrow.
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oxlin
in January 13th, 2009 @ 11:53174- Sure!
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Alice
in January 13th, 2009 @ 17:43Wonderful! I’ll get it tomorrow (I forgot to today), and finish it…sometime. Probably I’ll ignore my homework, because books are infinitely more fun than persuasive essays.
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