Hot Topics, v. 2006.8
Almost certainly the year’s last installment of MB’s forum for subjects that need careful handling and/or an extra dose of civility.
Date: December 12, 2006
Categories: Ideas, Life, The Universe
Comments RSS TrackBack 206 comments
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1
Kromatikk (THF)
in December 12th, 2006 @ 08:50Hey! What happened to my posts? I made two, (sorry) and neither of them is showing up, not even as “Your post is awaiting moderation.” Hm….
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SupremeMuser2000
in December 12th, 2006 @ 12:03Well, what should we talk about?
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FrigidSymphony We Came, We Saw, We Conquered You All, We Came, We Saw, We Live By The Sword!
in December 12th, 2006 @ 12:05How could it be possible for the government NOT to abuse listening in to phone calls and reading emails? And honestly, there should be no discussion at all whether the war in Iraq might be acceptable.
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Robert Coontz (Administrator)
in December 12th, 2006 @ 12:08THF,
Your posts were “first post” posts. As they didn’t introduce or discuss a hot topic, there didn’t seem to be any need to post them.
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FrigidSymphony We Came, We Saw, We Conquered You All, We Came, We Saw, We Live By The Sword!
in December 12th, 2006 @ 12:171. No need to block up the blog.
2. Sooner or later I’ll start up a flamewar again, never fear, you will have something to read about.
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Ebeth the Stalker
in December 12th, 2006 @ 14:58Yeesh, another flame war might be all i can handle. My posting on these threads are sporadic enough as it is.
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7
the man for aeiou
in December 12th, 2006 @ 16:26iran is holding a confrece on if the holcast happened
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8
Shadowkat
in December 12th, 2006 @ 16:293-Yeah, my dad put little pieces of felt on my family’s cell phone mouth pieces, because the gov’t can now actually use the microphone in it to listen in on conversations even if your not talking to someone…basically, if you’re within earshot of your phone’s microphone, and you say something they don’t like, buh-bye…scary, huh? Well, not so much for you, cuz you don’t live here, but still….
5-Haha…we could sure use another one of those.
Lol.
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9
niugnep
in December 12th, 2006 @ 16:523. Is it ever justifyable to interfere in the affairs of other countries? This is not a rhetorical question. Think about the world wars. Is govrnment resposible for the wellbeing of it’s people even if it is at the expense of other people? It is strikingly clear now that the war in Iraq was going to be a fiasco, but at the beginning, as I remember, it was considerably less clear (still clear, though). We can debate endlessly whether we were justified there, given the Bush administrations rationel, it just depends on what you think the precise role of government is.
FS, I think the rest of us here would prefer if you would try not to start a “flamewar” again. We didn’t exactly enjoy reading the last one.
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10
Zyviva, Queen of Pie and Hyperness
in December 12th, 2006 @ 21:117- of all the stupidity.
this is called history revision folks. It is what happens when some one in power to control history text books decides they don’t like history.
And i am willing to bet that the conference will denounce survivors as liars. of all the inhumane idiocies.I’m sorry but thats a sore point. please imagine that i used stronger, more descriptive launuage and threw in a few yiddish insults. times 10^44545475467…
9- I think yes, there are times when it is required to do so. many countries are dcivided by nothing more then human drawn lines. and humans are one oe of the stupidist, most illogical species known at this moment. being in the governemtn does not give any one the right to kill or torture any one else. the thing is, you have to make sure that your interferences effect the govt. in such a case and not innocent civilians, or to at least keep civilian casualties to a minimum. I put in that clause b/c terrorists use human shields and some times it is unavoidable that some die, but i suppoe that it is better for one to die then one thousand, though i do not persume to know the worth of an individual.
that was really long but i think you get the point.
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11
Axa
in December 12th, 2006 @ 22:30Thanks for the new thread, GAPAs. ♥
(7) Completely ridiculous. My dad told me about that at dinner and I was just…saddened. And really ticked off. I have no idea why you would want to deny the existence of the Holocaust.
(10) Agreed, it is history revision. Which brings to mind a good topic (or so I think) history books at school.
In seventh grade, when we were “studying” Japan, it made only a teeny tiny *cough*CommodoerPerrydidsomestuffandthen itwasMeiji*cough* reference. For those of you not familiar with Japanese history, America and a few other countries basically invaded Japan’s harbors and said : “If you don’t open your ports so we can make sweet sweet money off of you, we’re going to shoot you! :D”
This of course, only caused a civil war in Japan ,resulted in the deaths of thousands and completely changed in the culture itself…but that’s not important because it’s not about us~!
God I hate social studies. The Trail of Tears bit was like a paragraph, too. Makes me mad.
(9) That’s a really hard question, because once you do it once, you have to do it again, don’t you? A country doesn’t want to be the “world’s police”. But then again, it’s not acceptable to stand by while genocides are taking place. I suppose this is whys wars exist.
Also, don’t let this be a “OMGZ GUYS, BUSH IS SO STOOPIED. D: LET’S IMPEACH HIM LOLZZZZZZ” It’s tiring to read and I think we get the point. Just saying before hand because we always seem to lapse into that when we run out of things to say.
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12
Ötzi
in December 13th, 2006 @ 00:35Ah yes. History revision. I hear the White Guilt bells ringing.
Many, many history books are revised based on White Guilt. Because frankly, if you look at American History (my speciality) one will tend to notice that most of the injustices were performed by whites against non-whites. Columbus? Andrew Jackson? Jefferson Davis? Trail of Tears? Slavery? Smallpox? Colonization? Segregation? You will not find many white folkses willing to talk about that. So, people like Marcus Whitman and Andrew Jackson are often heroified, while their bad points, policies, bases, etc. are tucked into the footnotes. (BTW, I reccomend the book “Lies My Teacher Told Me” by Iforgethisname. It’s severe pwnage.)
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13
Sweet Melpomene
in December 13th, 2006 @ 15:32Please, no more flamewars. I had to go to the old thread [after being off for so long] to find out what everyone meant by that, and am rather glad that I was very busy during that time.
Have a pie war, at the worst.
7- Heard a quote about that. Some guy said something to the effect of, “If the holocaust never happened, where is my sister?”
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14
SupremeMuser2000
in December 13th, 2006 @ 16:02We’ve probably had enough arguments and don’t need to start any more. FrigidSymphony- I apolagized to you on the last Hot Topics thread. Did you read it?
(-:
Anyways, NO MORE FIGHTING!
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15
dark lord of darkness
in December 13th, 2006 @ 17:397-actually, in jerusalem. i think. maybe im wrong
9-i would say, yes. if the country is completely horrid. otherwise, why should we attack germany is WWII? But, now, when we have the UN, no single country should do that. they should go therough the UN, get permission, and get tons of countrys to participate. the offender is overwhelmed, and problem fixed. that is the only wars that there should be.
Wow. i didnt even know what the trail of tears was. (had to wikipedia it)but isnt it not that big of a deal? i mean compared to other things, only 4000 people died. and it is only one atrocity amoung many that whites commited agaisnt native americans. and i dont feel guilty at all, because im an immigrant
3-indeed
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16
Queenie
in December 13th, 2006 @ 17:58Can I just say that I am totally sick of hearing about immigration to America? Yadda yadda yadda. Blah blah blah. Okay? The basis of the ish is ego. That’s all it is. Ego. Ego that the United States is supposedly, open quote “the place everyone wants to go to for freedom/capitalism/money/etc.” close quote and that the SS teacher needs to blab about the whole “melting pot salad bowl” for hours. America is not a melting pot. America is not a salad bowl. America is a garbage heap. Let’s K.O. the US ego-militaristic-economic complex.
Sorry. That was a rant. But it was a rant that needed to be posted, in my opinion. I don’t have a lot of cultural guilt at all.
Can I just say that Quebecois get a raw deal? The English Canadians don’t like us, the French hate us, the Swiss snicker, the Belgians don’t like us, Luxembourg doesn’t care, and Americans think we’re French.
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17
Ebeth The Stalker
in December 13th, 2006 @ 18:0415-You didn’t know what the trail of tears was? What grade are you in?
16-Chamber pot and now garbage heap. America certainly provokes…interesting analogies.
Aww, i love you queenie, even if the french, etc don’t.
i’m part french-canadian myself, and i think you/they totally pwn.
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18
the man for aeiou
in December 13th, 2006 @ 18:3317-i know. it part of my family history.
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Axa~☆
in December 13th, 2006 @ 18:39(15) Um. Just 4000? o_o That is a strange way to put it…But in any case I understand what you mean. To me it’s also very symbolic of white America’s treatment of the Native Americans, so I thought it could stand to be elaborated. Understand that if they didn’t die, they suffered greatly. And it’s not so much about guilt as it is about the fact that this country did something like that. Andrew Jackson=no. I hate using twenty dollar bills. FIE!!!
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Julieb
in December 13th, 2006 @ 21:2815- Not that big of a deal? Ok definitely disagree there. But I do agree on the whole immigrant/less guilt thing. I was reading a series about a rabbi(don’t ask, my grandmother read them) They were written in the 50/60’s, when racism was a really hot topic. In one “scene” I guess, the rabbi is talking to this black guy, who says that “your people enslaved my people and brought them to your country against our will and have oppressed us ever since” and the rabbi says ” when your people were slaves my people were in the ghettos of europe” So, yeah, I don’t feel that guilty because my ancestors were never there. Besides, why do we feel guilty when it was never us who did anything? I mean, we have no control over what they did, why should we take the blame?
16- Look at it this way: At least your not American. The whole world thinks we’re idiots and hates our guts. But garbage heap? Harsh.
Anybody seen the holocost email going around? It shows a nonsequitor cartoon with an old man sitting on a bench. A little girl next to him says “Thats a funny tatoo, grampa. Why all the numbers?” And he explains about the holocaust, and the little girl says “So you keep it to help you remember?” And the old man says “No, I keep it so you remember.” It’s very moving, as you might notice history tends to be lost. Anyone who has a family member who died or escaped from a concentration camp has extremely powerful emotions about the holocaust, and it is so insulting to say it didn’t happen. Where are the six million? Not to mention the disabled, gays, and gypsys.
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21
Your Grandmother's Socks.
in December 14th, 2006 @ 10:4716- HEY! Luxembourg rocks! [Potential identifying information deleted. –Admin.]
What is the deal with you people from other countries hating America?I mean, gosh. Have we ever done anything to you? I know there have been things happening in america that aren’t the greatest, but there are good people too. We’re the land of the free and the home of the brave! How would you like it if we all called your country a piece of $#!* like you’ve basically saying about us? I bet you wouldn’t. Just stop it.
15- NOT A BIG DEAL?!??! How can having thousands of native americans being forced off of thier land and being killed in cold blood be something other than a big deal?!?!
Not really mad. 
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SupremeMuser2000
in December 14th, 2006 @ 10:49You said it, Your Grandmother’s Socks. You made a very good argument.
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Pentyyyyyyyy~(tonikk)
in December 14th, 2006 @ 13:1421 (YGS)- Queenie lives in America. And that is all I will say on the subject of America-bashing unless provoked, since I believe I’ve already made my views on the subject known.
@Trail of Tears- The Trail of Tears is so important because of what it symbolizes and the history behind it, and because four thousand is a very large number. The body count on the Trail was a part of the persecution of Indians by the United States government, a scary part. It’s important because it’s so horrific to modern Americans used to some facsimile of racial equality that their own government could go out and kill four thousand Americans just because they were a different race and white people wanted land.
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Ebeth The Stalker
in December 14th, 2006 @ 15:02“A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic”
Yes, four thousand is a lot of people.
Y’know what would be cool? A hot history topics thread, where we debate historical stuffins like it’s actually happening.
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SupremeMuser2000
in December 14th, 2006 @ 15:3324- And today, the United States has become it’s own country. More on this story later. This is SupremeMuser2000 reporting live from Bunker Hill, on this fine day of July 4th, 1776.
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dark lord of darkness
in December 14th, 2006 @ 16:0017-8th. but its sad.
ok,……
i wasnt saying that it wasnt a big deal. i am simply stating that people/we have done much worse things. i mean, think sudan civil war. death count is 2 million. that is infinitly more than 4000. thats like if you take the 4000 and do it again 500000 times. you know? or even another native american example. he spanish basically erradicated the entre mayan culture, including allmost all of their books, people and rituals. that was quite a bit more than 4000, i assume. i suppose that it could be representative of all of the wrong done to naive americans over time. then, it would be worth studying, but only as a representation, understood as such, with learning about all of the other atrocities comitted towards native americans.
24-like the quote. it really shows how bad things are and how little people understand. for ecxample, the police shot a gut a lot of times in new york recently. it was front page news (albeit front page post news) for days. in north korea, the gov’t kills hundreds of people a day, for no real reason. but no one cares about that.
21-“have we ever done anything to you?” hmm… i could certainly think of several things that america has tone to other countries. id bet you could too. and the land of the fr{comment censored by the central intelligence agency) . ummm yeah.
ok… done.
respond away.
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Ebeth The Stalker
in December 14th, 2006 @ 16:26Heh, you just gave it away anyway…
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The Insane Blue Sage
in December 14th, 2006 @ 16:46I think that the death penalty should definetly be abolished. There have been to many exoneraions for my comfort.
The patriot act is like something out of 1984 (the book)
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Violetfire
in December 14th, 2006 @ 19:48since we were talking about the Holocaust, how many of you have read The Wave? its a true story about a high school history teacher recreating the Nazi movement with his students to show them why the germans went along with Hitler.
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Ebeth The Stalker
in December 14th, 2006 @ 20:53I have. It was kind of freaky.
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dark lord of darkness
in December 14th, 2006 @ 21:0528-ok… now say something new.
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niugnep
in December 14th, 2006 @ 21:57I think everyone here remembers the holocaust. It shows up all over the place.
New topic: illegal imigration
Do we have more right to live and work in this country than others? Is there possibly a reason that they do “jobs that Americans won’t do?”
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33
Axa~☆
in December 15th, 2006 @ 00:59(26) Agreed, America is in no way free of “doing things” to other countries. No one country really is. Why else would we have borders…?
(29) I thought the message was good, but I really hated that book and how they characterized the class “loser” as only being happy when he was with the stereotypical “jocks” and their girlfriends. The last scene in the auditorium was really powerful, though.
And nonononononono more illegal immigration we’ve gone over it as much as abortion and it’s just dead in the ground now. Nothing to add to it.
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34
FrigidSymphony We Came, We Saw, We Conquered You All, We Came, We Saw, We Live By The Sword!
in December 15th, 2006 @ 14:29I’m watching Jesus Camp right now. Geez, I knew that evangelical fanaticism was high in the states, but this is f****n INSANE!
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Your Grandmother's Socks
in December 15th, 2006 @ 15:00I’m not talking about the country in general, I’m talking about US. Ya know, the americans on this blog?
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The Insane Blue Sage
in December 15th, 2006 @ 16:2234- It’s almost worse. I’ll put it this way, where I live I get told that I’m going to hell almost daily because I’m jewish and a while ago, one of them religious types threw a bomb into the reform temple.
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37
Silly person
in December 15th, 2006 @ 16:4134- Jesus Camp?!?!?!? What the….. Who would be that obsessed?
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dark lord of darkness
in December 15th, 2006 @ 17:07i dont live in America.
i live in New York. so its ok to diss americans.
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Ebeth the Stalker
in December 15th, 2006 @ 17:26…isn’t NY in america?
36-tell them they can wait for you there.
we made fun of christians in english today…not at christians specifically really, just the mistakes they made and what the small children said. Like in the bulletin “Our basketball game will be at 8:00 PM tonight. Come watch us kill Christ the King!” and the little girl and the teacher…
teacher: what are you drawing?
small child: god
teacher: but nobody knows what god looks like!
small child: they will in a minute.It was very amusing. We did that because the power went out and we couldn’t really do much else. Our luvverly Act V group was supposed to present today, but he extended us over break! And the rest of the class was fine with that because it meant the test would be pushed back too.
Except the reason we couldn’t was b/c of a dvd i made showing the lines we’re explaining and stuff, and they all exaggerated it to get extra time for the test, so now smallwood’s probably expecting some kind of technological miracle.
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Elizabeth
in December 15th, 2006 @ 17:3726- in 8th grade, 15 % of students in 8th grade didn’t know what country they live in, I’m not kidding
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41
Silly person
in December 15th, 2006 @ 17:4440- Well that’s pathetic.
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42
wingnut
in December 15th, 2006 @ 18:10Politics= humbug
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Violetfire
in December 15th, 2006 @ 20:1839: also,
teacher (to little boy)- look out the window. What do you see?
little boy- trees, grass, buildings, etc.
teacher- can you see god?
little boy- no
teacher- well, if you can’t see him, he must not exist!
little girl (to little boy)- little boy, can you see teacher’s brain?
little boy- no
little girl- then it must not exist!people, don’t go into that dis-christianity stuff. That’s why Monty left. she’s a bit sensitive about her religion…
39- when people call me a bad name, i say things like “I’m not the only one!”
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Ebeth The Stalker
in December 15th, 2006 @ 21:46Apols. I wasn’t really dissing it, more just people and their general stupidity. If you like i could find some mistakes in other religions’ announcements and suchlike…it’s just that christianity is the most popular religion here in the US
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Kuai Zi Angel Pentatonikk
in December 15th, 2006 @ 23:57So what’s the current hot topic? Evangelicalism/Christianity? Also done to death on these threads. Some of us are Christian. Some of us aren’t. Nobody is going to convert anyone on MuseBlog, not the evangelical Christians or the evangelical atheists, if people agreed about religion it wouldn’t be religion, and any belief set is so broad that it’s silly to keep talking about it like it’s a ‘hot topic,’ because it isn’t.
What haven’t we talked about on these things? I’m in the mood for a good argument, with no easy answers and no flamewar.
WAITAMINUTE, Axa wasn’t eaten by a giant squid? *tackleglomps and pokes in direction of P&S*
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46
dark lord of darkness
in December 16th, 2006 @ 00:33GUN CONTROL!!! (as a hot topic)
and, new york is NOT in america. america is full of obese gun toting evagelical rednecks. new york isnt.
(for the 99% of bloggers that i offended, i apologize)
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47
Axa~☆
in December 16th, 2006 @ 00:34(34) Sigh. That is not applicable for everywhere in the USA. And not all Evangelicals are insane. There are sects in all religions that are extremists.
(38) …? New York is in the US… What? O_o
(45) Ah I’m sorry Penty. ;_; I will try to post some more stuff soon. And I agree, another topic we’ve exhausted.
Others:
-Global Warming
-Iraq
-Abortion
-ImmigrationI’d like to know what you all think about internet privacy/etc. I personally think that NO ONE should EVER be able to claim/control what one posts on the internet. It’s just crazy and one step toward those horrible sci-fi “What if” worlds. -shudder-
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Kuai Zi Angel Pentatonikk
in December 16th, 2006 @ 01:3746 (dlod)- Congratulations on joining the Grossly Over-Generalizing Anti-American Club (Okay, So Maybe It’s Intended Humour But It Still Makes You Look a Fair Idiot). I hear you get a sticker.
But I’ll disprove you anyway. I live in almost-Chicago, which is in America and not New York. I…
…am underweight.
…have never owned a gun, or even touched one, nor do I have any desire to.
…am vaguely agnostic-Buddhist.
…am not a redneck.-Gun control: License to carry, strict vending regulations, but remain legal. Turning a gun into something illegal will not solve anything, and will in fact create a whole bunch of new problems, such as finding the people who are selling illegal firearms.
-Internet privacy: If you mean things like avoiding creepy stalkers, I’m all for that. If you mean things like ‘parental controls’ that monitor Internet activity from a remote computer, then NONONO.
Yes, you should be responsible for those…questionable…pictures of yourself you posted on MySpace *wards off evil*, but you should be protected from Internet predators no matter how stupid you are. Idiocy is not punishable by rape. But monitoring Internet activity should not be legal, even if it’s in the name of ‘protecting our children’. It’s too easy for the government to take the same thing a step farther, and then we’ve ended up with a China-like Internet and a Big Brother government.
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Ebeth The Stalker
in December 16th, 2006 @ 09:08I think by internet privacy, like companies/gov not taking control or anything. Or like somebody plagarizing the stuff you post. Something like that.
Nobody should moniter where you go, and nobody should censor the internet. It’s the ultimate free speech.
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50
Violetfire
in December 16th, 2006 @ 09:39Since you seem to think that New York is better than the rest of America, why don’t you remember all the bad things about new york? there are guns and gangs and horrible people there too.
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FrigidSymphony We Came, We Saw, We Conquered You All, We Came, We Saw, We Live By The Sword!
in December 16th, 2006 @ 13:12New York IS better than the rest of the states, as it’s the most democratic liberal european place over there.
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52
Axa~☆
in December 16th, 2006 @ 14:01(46,51, etc)
plz to not post random bashing. D: Okay New York is certainly part of America. And how in the world can you know it’s the best state? Have you been to every single state in the US…? WHAT. I live in CA but that doesn’t mean I go surfing everyday of my life and I frolic in the sun whilst talking with my favorite movies stars that I see everyday when I go shopping at Abercrombie and Fitch. Generalizations are not okay.AGAIN there are certainly some people in the US that could be labeled as religious extremists but that IN NO WAY means that we are all that way.
America is a big place with lots of different people. You can’t typecast that many people. It just doesn’t work.
(48) Oh the internet in China scares me so much. SO much. -more shuddering- I see the web, as of now, the last unfiltered form on free speech and it just chills me to the bone thinking someone could be controlling it.
As for gun control… I think the qualifications for getting a gun should be stricter.
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53
ScrambledEggs
in December 16th, 2006 @ 14:3747-I think what DLOD meant was that the “U.S.” refers to the gov’t of the U.S.A., not the country itself…which, I might add, is a distinction that must constantly be made.
51-Oh, really? Then why do you live in Switzerland, if you’re such a fan of liberalism? Or was that more sarcasm?
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54
ScrambledEggs
in December 16th, 2006 @ 14:38Dang it! Posted under the wrong name again!
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ScrambledEggs
in December 16th, 2006 @ 14:38Haha…that’ll make it easier for people to guess who I am.
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FrigidSymphony We Came, We Saw, We Conquered You All, We Came, We Saw, We Live By The Sword!
in December 16th, 2006 @ 14:4453: Switzerland is liberal. That wasn’t sarcasm.
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57
Julieb
in December 16th, 2006 @ 17:23Ok, I guess we’re debating whether NY is better than the rest of the states. It’s an extreme generalization, but in some points true. Obviously FS makes a point about it being european, but thats only because it still has ethnic neighborhoods left from the early 20th century. It was voted the most polite city, and has a low crime rate, but that doesn’t apply to all areas. There are still plenty of places where you are at risk of being mugged, broken in, beat up, etc. As for democratic and liberal, the city has 19,000,000 people from all over the country. You just can’t make those generalizations. There are definitely democratic liberals, but also republican conservatives. The cabs alone produce a ton of pollution, but they’re working to integrate the country’s first hybrid taxis. There are tons of wealty business executives, but even more poor,uneducated workers. There aren’t enough schools, so the students learn in shifts in buildings ten stories high. Ok, I think I’ve proven my point. Don’t generalize, look at the standard deviation.
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Pentatonikk in Spadesâ™
in December 16th, 2006 @ 22:0151 (FS)- Obviously, you have never heard of Westchester. (Bitwuh, my aunt lives there and she’s crazy-liberal, but it is overall wealthy and conservative.)
If everyone is going to talk about how New York is so great, I could just as easily argue for Illinois. Here, we…
…produce ridiculously huge amounts of crops.
…still have the third-largest city in the country.
…voted Democratic in 2000 and 2004, if liberalism is a measure of greatness.
…have produced Barack Obama.
…have a large and pretty complete T. rex skeleton.
…have produced Abraham Lincoln. (If you argue that he was a Republican and so OBVIOUSLY NOT WORTH ANYTHING, I weel keel j00.)
…have access to both the Mississippi River and the Great Lakes.Are you getting my point? You can argue for any state being the best, based on the factors that are important to you. That doesn’t mean it is. There is no one ‘best’ state or city, since ‘best’ is such an arbitrary and confusing word.
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Violetfire
in December 17th, 2006 @ 11:23yes. Stop going on about NY being so great you don’t think it’s even part of America. Frankly, the relative horribleness (i’m not saying its horrible, i’m saying that however horrible we think it is, that’s what matters) of the US is all our faults. Every state. Every person. Mostly excluding us, because we’re not voting age. No one is more responsible for it than any one else. All our states are equal (that’s what the US is all about) and even if they’re not, we shouldn’t be bragging or anything. okay? so STOP saying that.
and can we get back onto the Wave? I have to make a brochure convincing everyone why it was good and why Mr. Ross shouldn’t be fired- when it was bad and he really should. DESPERATE HOMEWORK HELP NEEDED.
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60
e~a the sock monkey
in December 17th, 2006 @ 11:3551- *ahem* did new york vote democratic in the Reagan election? no. and anyways how many states have you been too? they all have their faults and their erm… non-faults.
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61
Shadowkat
in December 17th, 2006 @ 12:4058-Um……..Abraham Lincoln was a criminal, and a disobeyer of the Constitution, and I wouldn’t be proud to have had him come from my state. The only reason he freed the slaves was to cause anger in the southern states, who then wanted to secede from the Union, but Lincoln wanted to use their resources, and have control over them, so he waged war against them. He also quoted the Bible in some of the speeches he used to get the Northerners behind him, but, in secret, he despised it (the Bible). He was NOT an honorable man.
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62
Shadowkat
in December 17th, 2006 @ 12:45Sorry to double post…
56-I guess I should ask exactly what you mean by liberal. What are your (or Switzerland’s) views on issues like gov’t control over money, social stuff, etc.?
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63
FrigidSymphony We Came, We Saw, We Conquered You All, We Came, We Saw, We Live By The Sword!
in December 17th, 2006 @ 12:4858:
my grandparents (both very liberal too) used to live there. Then they retired and moved to Arizona…
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64
Violetfire
in December 17th, 2006 @ 13:0761: And you know this how?
Lets not look at what Lincoln thought, but what he did. He still DID free the slaves, and turned all of the states into more of a country. anyway, can we move on from this state war? did ANYONE read my last post? it doesn’t matter what you think of your state, NY is still as bad as the rest of us, and none of ours is better than anyone else. The states aren’t the ones responsible for the state of our country, GEORGE BUSH is.
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65
FrigidSymphony We Came, We Saw, We Conquered You All, We Came, We Saw, We Live By The Sword!
in December 17th, 2006 @ 13:1262: Switzerland has high taxes so that we can uphold a high level of social service. Great hospitals, schools, ecc. We have relatively low IVA taxes compared to the rest of Europe (Italy’s is circa 30%, whilst here it’s around 5%), but that’s because we’re already a wealthy nation.
Overall, Switzerland is very social, despite there being a traditional balance between liberals and conservatives in the federal council (our group of presidents). We have a direct democracy, and Switzerland is one of the few countries where democracy actually works in it’s entirety.
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66
Axa~☆
in December 17th, 2006 @ 13:16(61) O_O
…Opposite to popular belief, quoting the Bible doesn’t automatically make you a jerk. Hokay. Everyone, don’t start connecting Christianity=bad just because you hate Bush or evangelicals. No.
Yes, Lincoln did use dubious methods, and violated habeus corpus (or was it the other one…well it was jailing for past crimes I think)
I’m not sure how you could know he despised the Bible, but that’s politics hokay. And everyone was and is using the Bible as a motivator for wars. it’s not good, but it’s a fact.
The South had already seceded when the slaves were freed. And I believe that it was indeed the Confederacy that declared war in the States as well. Quoth Wiki “Fighting commenced on April 12, 1861, when Confederate forces attacked a Federal military installation at Fort Sumter in South Carolina.[1]” Yes, there were other smaller attacks from both sides before this, but it is noted that the Confederacy initiated the actual war.Sigh.
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67
Violetfire
in December 17th, 2006 @ 14:2465: well, braggy, braggy. I still prefer Iceland. They have low taxes, a 100% literacy rate, use mostly water- and wind-power rather than fossil fuels, and also have great schools.
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68
dark lord of darkness
in December 17th, 2006 @ 15:22i wasn’t referring to state.i was referring to city. Upstate is conservative. New York just has a different attitude about the world. We are exposed to many cultures, so we are aware of them. We barely pollute, compared to the rest of the country. Basically, we are like europe, not like america.
48-thank you! and when a vast majority of americans actually think that way, why shouldn’t i generalize?
In Denmark, there is about a 50% income tax. but then we get all kinds of free things, such as universities, and health care. Lincoln was not good by today’s standards, but not many were. He was still a great president, and did great things.
64-not at all. No one likes America, and its as much America’s fault as it is Dubya’s. anyway, at least 45% of voters voted for him. People hated America before Dubya. And if you didnt know that, you’re a clueless American!
58-as i said, not the state. the city.
59-not even close to true. if America acted like NYC, would people hate us?
60-not state, city. and i’m talking about now. not 20 years ago.
57-per capita, new york barely pollutes. apartment buildings are much more efficient to heat, and barely anyone has a car. crime in new york is low. but even if it were higher, its becuase so many poor people live here. and thats the federal gov’ts fault.
seriously. are you kidding me about the schools? but, i jst realized something bad about the schols. but still, im talking about atitude towards the world.
48- agreed. but you are an exeption, not a rule. the vast majority of america is clueless and stupid. thats how bush won.hope i clarified my point to y’all. we are very different from ameica.
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69
dark lord of darkness
in December 17th, 2006 @ 15:27oops for the double post.
43-but if you cut open teacher’s head, theres the brain!
the one thing that europe is bad on is immigration. that means you, FS! they wont let turkey into the EU. inssanely strict immigration laws, because there afriad of differences. yeah.
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70
Arianhrod of Orkney (circa A.D. 500)
in December 17th, 2006 @ 17:2168 (responding to your response to 48) — i know . . . i still can’t believe it . . .
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71
Ebeth The Stalker
in December 17th, 2006 @ 18:2361-I’d like to see how you’d back all that up, that’s all i’m saying.
If we’re talking about what’s the best state, how about MI? It’s got the Great Lakes and lots of copper and snow and we’ve only produced one president
59-heh, good luck with that…
69-ZOMG teachers have brains?
68-The majority isn’t everybody. The minority is offended when you generalize. Please don’t.
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72
Violetfire
in December 17th, 2006 @ 18:3768: please. dont. generalize. us. And stop saying you aren’t part of America! you are! just because you are a good place doesn’t mean you arent’ america. illinois is a good place too. okay? so are virtually all the states by themselves, but when you put them together you get the US. good x 50 = bad.
not only are you generalizing about the rest of the country, you generalize about NY! you said, and i quote:
“New York just has a different attitude about the world. We are exposed to many cultures, so we are aware of them. We barely pollute, compared to the rest of the country. Basically, we are like europe, not like america.”
that is generalizing that new yorkers are great, non-polluting, europeans who are aware of other cultures. NOT ALL OF YOU ARE!!!! maybe you are, but so am i, and JS, and lots of MB-ers! you may think you don’t deserve to be americans, but nobody does! stop saying you are better than us!
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73
dark lord of darkness
in December 17th, 2006 @ 19:31A#^%$#%@
im not saying you guys suck, im just saying that the average american does. and the average new yorker doesnt.
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74
Violetfire
in December 17th, 2006 @ 19:39you still can’t generalize like that. nobody is average. you are only ONE new yorker. you can’t know that. and stop swearing like that. I know what you just said.
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75
Queenie J
in December 17th, 2006 @ 20:3567-Do you know why they have a 100% literacy rate? Because they have about 100 individuals, all told. The population is tiny. Tiny. TINY!!
74-That’s not swearing, Violetfire. Really.
Has anyone heard about the Indian situation? Kind of embarrassing, if you think about it. Even if you don’t, actually. Come on. For a culture that produced the Kama Sutra, it’s kind of a letdown.
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76
Violetfire
in December 17th, 2006 @ 21:02he was being rude, that’s all.
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77
dark lord of darkness
in December 17th, 2006 @ 23:36actually, i pressed shift, and hit all the number keys
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78
nerdz__r00l
in December 18th, 2006 @ 12:38I’m here to say this, and ummm…
CAN WE JUS GET ALONG???
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79
FrigidSymphony We Came, We Saw, We Conquered You All, We Came, We Saw, We Live By The Sword!
in December 18th, 2006 @ 13:09Just here to say, I agree with dlod. (Who didn’t see this coming?)
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80
Julieb
in December 18th, 2006 @ 13:4778- But the hot topics thread wouldn’t be any fun if we didn’t debate, as long as we do it rationaly.
Ok, the new york topic is definitly exausted. Obviously, we have a new yorker on here who has the disadvantage of doing what has caused so many wars and that is asserting one group of individuals superiority over others. Thank you DLOD. By doing this, you demean yourself. For your own sake, stop.
New topics? The stop-loss policy? Teen social pressure in today’s 180mph society? The insane video game craze? Peoples idiocy at putting peguins in north pole scenes?
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81
Axa~☆
in December 18th, 2006 @ 18:03(68) “the vast majority of america is clueless and stupid”
-tear-
(80) Stop-less policy? What’s that?
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82
the man for aeiou
in December 18th, 2006 @ 18:13how about citys puting up xmas trees but not manoriars.I know i didint spell that right.
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83
big red cheese blob
in December 18th, 2006 @ 18:4080- I know, I was just talking about just the flame wars/certain words.
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84
Pentatonikk
in December 18th, 2006 @ 18:59Dlod, not only are you being overly general, you’re also talking about most cities, not just New York. I am in no way saying city people are superior to country people. Because we aren’t. I’m not saying we’re “European” like that’s such a d*** good thing, like we all want to be European. But guess what? In Chicago (obviously inferior to wonderful, non-American New York), we have public transportation too. And many, many people take it, not polluting cars. We have apartment buildings too. (And by the way, crime out on the farms is lower than it is in New York, (you’re second or third in homicides per year, I believe (yes, Chicago is first. I’m not claiming my city is perfect like some other people.) and it isn’t the fault of poor people. Who says rich people can’t commit crimes too?) Stop acting so g****** superior to the rest of us. Because you’re not, and if you continue to pretend you are, I’m going to get a lot more upset than I am right now.
Final thought (a question for all you overgeneralizing patriots): Who do you think you are?
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85
Violetfire
in December 18th, 2006 @ 20:11Thank you, Penty. I knew someone would finally agree.
Also, compared to many other countries of the world, the US is pretty darn good. You have to think about others. All those african places, where people die, and Iraq, where they can’t even set up a government, and- just watch the news people. Just see all those horrible things happening, and think, “hmm, aren’t i lucky that’s not me?”. Did you know that a human being needs about 13 gallons of water a day to stay alive? Americans use about 300 gallons per day, and Africans use about 12. Yes, not even enough to stay alive. Think about it.
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86
niugnep
in December 18th, 2006 @ 21:4485. Is it possible to live within the framework of western society and consume only our fair share of things? It’s hard to change a society if individuals within the society are bound by the society to keep up with it.
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87
cannon in D
in December 18th, 2006 @ 21:4564. Just wondering… you think that this country is in heaps of trouble. How can you blame it all on one person? Some one who was just reading these posts kinda gets the impression that you think the Trail of Tears and Iraq war and everything else wrong with this coutry is George Bush’s fault. One person can only do so much
85. Ummm…I thought about it an I thought that doctors said to drink 8oz of water to stay healthy…kind of a far streach from 13 GALLONS. And even taking a really long shower every day, I don’t see how you could use 300 gallons!
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88
nerdz__r00l
in December 18th, 2006 @ 21:49I agree with penty and Violetfire. WHAT”S SO GOOD ABOUT NEW YORK ANYWAYS???
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89
cannon in D
in December 18th, 2006 @ 21:5684. You are totally right, Penty!
86. I think you said “society” too many times. Except then I read it again and I agree. I have friends who boycott anything that supports something they don’t like. But almost EVERYthing is connected in someway with something that you don’t agree with. You would have to live out in the woods wearing leaves, and eating roots.
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90
big red cheese blob
in December 18th, 2006 @ 23:4148-I read this story once in a magazine. It predicted that the internet would soon be all propietary, thanks to spam.
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91
SupremeMuser2,000,000
in December 19th, 2006 @ 11:27Gah. More fighting.
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92
FrigidSymphony We Came, We Saw, We Conquered You All, We Came, We Saw, We Live By The Sword!
in December 19th, 2006 @ 13:4985: Ummm…. noo? Come on, you can’t compare one of the most poweful, industrialized nation in the world to a primitive third world place like Africa, or a war ravaged country like Iraq (besides, YOU did all the ravaging). Look at every single country in western Europe: We’re industrializted, advanced nations, just like the US, yet we don’t srew the world up as much as you.
It’s like saying: “Saddam was a great guy! I mean, compare him to Hitler!”
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93
Pentatonikk -.-
in December 19th, 2006 @ 15:24Disclaimer: This is not a flame. I don’t flame. This is me, getting annoyed at what I consider to be bigotry.
92 (FS)- Yes you can. They’re both inhabited by human beings, who need the same basic things. Just because one group has huge amounts more than the other does not make either of them any less human.
Oh yes. One more thing.
I would like you to please stop blaming the actions of the United States government on the people of the United States. Especially those of us who CANNOT VOTE. Thank you. If you or anyone else continues to do this, I will not be so polite.
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94
Shadowkat
in December 19th, 2006 @ 16:3865-I understand…my dad says he wants to move there, but my mom says she’d be content with TX, so I don’t know.
66-I apologize. My facts were not completely straight. Though, frankly, if the Southern states wanted to secede, he should’ve let them.
93-That’s true.
Fridgey, I’m with the others here…just because Bush and his Administration are doing horrible things, doesn’t mean the people are, so please rephrase what you’re saying. We understand the gist of what you’re trying to say, but you’re just saying it the wrong way, so use different terms, or just specify, ok? It’s not us, it’s him.
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95
Axa~☆
in December 19th, 2006 @ 18:23(88) Now, that’s not fair. There are plenty of nice things about New York.
(92) Our country did that, FS, not Violetfire. Not anyone else on the blog. And there are things wrong with Europe too. Just because you choose to believe there isn’t, doesn’t mean that’s true.
I’m not saying America is this great, flawless place, okay? I’m just tired of pointless nature of this conversation. Every.Country.Has.Its. Faults. Embrace that.
It just defies logic. I don’t know what to say anymore.
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96
Julieb
in December 19th, 2006 @ 19:14As I said before, STOP. Everyone has had a chance to express themselves and the topic is getting old. Lets move on.
81- The stop-loss policy is a bill that allows the military to extend a soldiers tour of duty up to 2031. That means those who sign up for one year now find the date of their return on their paycheck extended up to 20 or 30 years. Most only get one year extensions, but there was a very controversial court case in which a soldier sued the military because he had had his tour of duty extended 8 years in vietnam and then was called back into active duty for iraq only to find his tour of duty scheduled to end in 2030. He lost.
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97
Violetfire
in December 19th, 2006 @ 19:52the 300 gallons mostly comes from industrial and agricultural uses, i.e., the water used to make everything you used. and showers do use a lot of water. for science we had to track our personal water usage for a week. my total was like 2500 liters. but one person took like 60-minute showers and ended up with like 16,000 liters.
everybody stop talking about this, and everybody come up with one new topic to discuss. okay?mine:
what do you think of the new smoking-banned-in-public-places laws?
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98
SupremeMuser2000
in December 19th, 2006 @ 20:0197- I lurv them very much! Smoking is horrible.
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99
SupremeMuser2000
in December 20th, 2006 @ 12:08This thread isn’t as full as it usually is. Hmm. I’ll have to say something controversial. But I don’t know what.
FrigidSymphony- True The US isn’t the greatest country in the world, but neither is Switzerland. NO COUNTRY IS PERFECT! And just because our president is an idiot doesn’t give you the right to blame it on us, espessially when we have no say in what goes on.
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100
FrigidSymphony We Came, We Saw, We Conquered You All, We Came, We Saw, We Live By The Sword!
in December 20th, 2006 @ 12:2599: Why does the average american have no say in what’s going on? If Bush were a democrat, the republicans would have had him impeached ages ago. Switzerland is actually, one of the most democratic countries in the world.
And you simply cannot compare the US to extremely poorer countries. The powerful advanced nation with more resources should know how to use them better.
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101
canon in D
in December 20th, 2006 @ 14:0093. The people of the U.S. voted for the U.S. government. (of the people, by the people, for the people or something like that.) I do agree that you shouldn’t blame people that can’t vote.
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102
SupremeMuser2000
in December 20th, 2006 @ 15:14100- I’m talking about the people on the blog, the ones too underaged to vote. Who you’ve basically been calling worthless and unintelligent. And why can’t we compare America to poorer countries? Are you saying that if someone was poor that you couldn’t compare them to a rich person cause they aren’t on the same level? How do you define the average American? Especially when you’ve never met any of us? Based on your attitude, I could say that Swiss people are stuck up, prejudice butt heads that love Hitler.But all of them aren’t.And I don’t know any Swiss people. That’s what you’ve been doing to us. Generalizing.Stop it. We’re not all stupid as you call us. Could you be nice?
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103
Violetfire
in December 20th, 2006 @ 15:52nice would be good. and WE have no say because we can’t vote. can we PLEASE talk about something else?
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104
Lizzie
in December 20th, 2006 @ 16:3568- actually, that’s not how “Bush won”. Let’s talk about the two different elections:
2000- Bush “wins” because of the contested results from Florida. Gore gets the popular vote. Bush gets put into office due to rigging of the voting in Florida, giving him the electoral votes (I believe that is the correct term) – whole communities of African-Americans, who are more likely to vote Democrat than Republican, were erraneously put on lists of criminals who weren’t allowed to vote, physically prevented from voting, refused the right to vote absentee, etc. Then came the “hanging chad” deal, where the ballots ended up being hand-counted by Jeb Bush’s little cohorts, hence the bumper sticker “it ain’t over until your brother counts the votes”. Basically, Bush pulled the family-and-friends trick to keep Florida from going blue, as it would have.
2004- Voting computer-machines are put into widespread use. The companies refuse to have their code inspected for errors by professional computer geeks. The head of one of the major voting-machine manufacturing companies (which, by the way, were used in Ohio) tells Bush that he’ll win him the election. In a county of Ohio, more people “vote” than are registered (more people also vote than live in that county), and 99% are put down as voting Republican. In Austin and other places, the machine automatically changes the vote for president to Republican and returns the ballot if any of the other blanks are left blank. Draw your own conclusions.
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105
Axa~☆
in December 20th, 2006 @ 17:35(96) Agreed. Let’s just drop it.
I love the smoking bans too. I also like the trans-fat bans, although I do admit it seems like it’s almost a violation of rights… But then again, we’ve never had any real say in what restaurants carry anyway, so big deal. And trans fat is horrible for you. What do you guys think?
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106
niugnep
in December 20th, 2006 @ 18:02I don’t think that we can hold fast food resteraunts accountable for the weight problems of Americans. Fast food resteraunts have the right to use trans fats as long as they are honest about it.
Today in my school newspaper there was an article (far and away the longest and best written all year, and the only one so far that thought went into) about how now illegal drugs should be legalized. The authors ideas were incoherent, and often wrong, but he might have been right in the whole. If drugs such as marijuana were legal, people would be able to buy them much cheaper, and wouldn’t have to rob or cheat to get them. More philosophically, does the government have the right to prevent us from doing things which are dangerous? Skydiving is dangerous, but it’s legal. If a lot of people choose to fry their brains in private, I couldn’t care less. It doesn’t infringe upon my rights. I understand that in some countries (including Switzerland, maybe? FS?) that an addict can get drugs by perscription. Any thoughts?
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107
canon in D
in December 20th, 2006 @ 18:12104. There are many people that hava totally opposite opinion. but I think we should drop it, ’cause we’ll obviously never agree.
I think trans fat bans are a violation of rights. People should pressure restaurants to cook w/out them, but banning them is wrong. If people want to kill themselves, you can’t stop them.
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108
Shadowkat
in December 20th, 2006 @ 20:00100-Because, in most cases, Bush is going against what we want him to do. Granted, different people have different opinions, but most disagree with what he’s doing. I guess that’s not a reason for why most Americans don’t have a say in what the country does, but it’s a fact, and somewhat related to the case at hand.
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109
Violetfire
in December 20th, 2006 @ 20:17i think that trans-fats should be banned. they’re not even natural, are they? they’re made somehow out of regular fats. and they’re really, really bad for you. they can always use saturated or unsaturated fats if they must, it shouldn’t make too much difference. i don’t particularly care, since i haven’t eaten at a fast-food place since i was like five.
Trans fats occur naturally, in small quantities, in meat and dairy products from ruminants. Most trans fats consumed today, however, are industrially created as a side effect of partial hydrogenation of plant oils — a process developed in the early 1900s and first commercialized as Crisco in 1911. Partial hydrogenation changes a fat’s molecular structure (raising its melting point and reducing rancidity) but this process also results in a proportion of the changed fat becoming trans fat.
Unlike other fats, trans fats are neither required nor beneficial for health.[1] Eating trans fat increases the risk of coronary heart disease.[2] For these reasons, health authorities worldwide recommend that consumption of trans fat be reduced to trace amounts. Trans fats from partially hydrogenated oils are generally considered to be more of a health risk than those occurring naturally.[3]
Trans fats are increasingly being linked to chronic health conditions, are tightly regulated in a few countries, are mandatory on product labels in many others, and are the central issue in several ongoing lawsuits (particularly against fast food outlets). Many companies are voluntarily removing trans fats from their products, or establishing trans-free product lines.
Thanks, wiki!
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110
Julieb
in December 20th, 2006 @ 21:02106- It’s not a problem what people do in their own homes, it’s that people who used drugs have an impaired sense of judgement as well as cognitive recognition, e.g. they believe they are capable of driving safely but can’t. I don’t think we should let people do something that is not only horrible for them and their families, but can also hurt innocent people. It’s like second hand smoking. YOU may not smoke, but you still get hurt. So why legalize it? It will just create more users. What we really need is tougher drug+drinking enforcement. Plenty of kids at my school drink or do drugs, and rarely do they get in trouble for it. At worst they get a lecture. Like my dad says, if I want to drink when I’m eighteen (the drinking age here is 21) then I can do it in our house with his supervision; that way, I can’t hurt myself or others, especially since teens have almost no alchohol tolerance, they often die chocking on their own vomit. There this one girl who sits at my table during ceramics, a sophmore. She has mentioned that she used to be a marijuana addict. It ruined her life, so she quit. Sometimes other kids talk about their drug use, and she gets very quiet. Maybe we need to have an addict visitation program to show kids what really happens. Legalizing marijuana will make it become like cigarettes, which we will never be able to rid ourselves of, but at least nicotine addicts can still drive safely.
Trans fats- I believe if a resturant is using trans fats in their food, they have to put a warning lable on it by the surgeon general or whomever is responsible for such things. It’s not fair to sell food in a resturant using products very likely to cause health problems in their customers without informing them. How would you like it if they found a nasty but good tasting bacteria that they started to use in foods without telling the consumer? Trans fats are even worse. Heart disease is one of the leading causes of death in the US, we should be taking steps to prevent it. My father has had a heart attack, and I cringe to think what would happen should it occur again. For everyone’s sake, banning trans fats is a good move. Besides, companies like mcdonalds have already started replacing the trans fats in some of their restuants with vegetable oil and nobody notice the difference. It’s unhealthy and provides no benifit to anyone.
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111
nerdz__r00l
in December 20th, 2006 @ 23:02The government should change their way of voting to majority vote, because in 2000, we woul’dve had AL GORE instead!
Now face it, his movie “an inconvenient truth” did more for the enviorment than what bush did in his entire term!!!
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112
niugnep
in December 21st, 2006 @ 13:32110. No amount of expensive enforcement will stop people from doing drugs. There is way more anti drug propaganda out there than is doing anyone any good already. I don’t know if something as drastic as straight out legalizing all drugs is the solution, but I don’t think that more of the same will solve any problems. Not in Iraq and not in the United States.
111. A popular vote system would be very impractical. One would be having recounts all over the place by candidates trying to scrounge up a few more votes. It is only a small minority of elections in which the popular and electoral votes differ.
In “An Inconvenient Truth,” Al Gore is preaching to the choir. Most people who went to that movie already agree with him, and those who didn’t are for the most part so set in their opinions that no movie is going to change their minds. Besides, the movie presented a biased view point, which tends to offend people. All of the graphs had scales designed to make upward trends look more dramatic. It also had a lot of segments on Gore which made him out like a hero, and which rather detracted from the lecture. By all this I don’t mean to say that I don’t support what Gore’s view point. I just think that the lines are drawn on this issue and to put out propaganda (the movie wasn’t quite propaganda, but it was close) would be to lower ourselves to the level of our opponents.
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113
nerdz__r00l
in December 21st, 2006 @ 18:10And I think we should focus less of of our forces i the middle east and more in africa!!!
I mean, how many people have died in one african civil war??? 1,000,000??? And how many have died in irq??? 100,000 or something!
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114
Axa~☆
in December 21st, 2006 @ 21:07(106) First off, the fact that it would be cheaper is totally irrelevant.
Drugs are banned because they kill people, make them desperate, and lead them to do bad things. It’s addictive. You don’t hear about many people killing each other to get money to go sky-diving, but so many robberies and murders exist because somebody needs their fix, and that’s how they get the money. Do you realize what would happen if this was legalized? Drugs do horrible, horrible things to people. Your example of skydiving is dangerous to the individual, but drugs are dangerous to everyone the addict knows. It’s like a curse, I can’t fathom living in a country where such a thing was legal.
(113) Human life is precious. Granted, I see the point you’re trying to make, but even so, I dislike seeing such a large number made to seem insignificant. Just my opinion.
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115
nerdz__r00l
in December 22nd, 2006 @ 00:32114-also, like pracitally everyonoe in africa is starving? wYou could provide around 10 children in africa with food, mosquito nets, and other things to keep them alive/educated with the cost of one soldier’s equipment! But too bad. If we withdraw from iraq, irand or north korea might think we’re not really that macho, so there might be nuclear war. Phooeeey.
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116
Violetfire
in December 22nd, 2006 @ 11:48115: I agree totally. we’re basically just making things worse in iraq. no matter what we do, the different groups are still going to try to kill each other off all the time. we need to move on. we need to go help people who really really need help.
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FrigidSymphony We Came, We Saw, We Conquered You All, We Came, We Saw, We Live By The Sword!
in December 22nd, 2006 @ 12:22102: [snip. –Admin.] … the hitler-related remark of mine was a sharp satirical jab at recent european history. I was pointing out that Europe isn’t all that great, even compared to the US. [snip. ADDED: Don’t] assume I’m a nazi.
106: Actually, you can only get medical drugs by prescription here. But I say legalize marijuana! And I think euthanasia is legal here.
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118
Robert Coontz (Administrator)
in December 22nd, 2006 @ 12:33Stop the name calling, please, or we’ll have to resort to censorship. In fact, I think I’ll indulge in a little retroactive censorship right now. *vanishes back into the machinery of the blog*
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119
Axa~☆
in December 22nd, 2006 @ 19:04(118) Yeah, things have been getting a little…not so nice.
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120
Lizzie
in December 22nd, 2006 @ 19:21114- Actually, marijuana isn’t addictive. Tobacco, on the other hand, is. Guess which one is legal and which one isn’t.
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121
Julieb
in December 23rd, 2006 @ 17:25120- Tobbaco isn’t. Nicotine is. And people get addicted to marijuana highs.
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122
Potato Chip
in December 23rd, 2006 @ 18:45*sighs* Tobacco is only legal because SO MANY PEOPLE smoke.
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123
Ötzi
in December 23rd, 2006 @ 22:158: O RLY?
AAAAAAAAAA!!!!
*locates beat up old cellphone; buries it 10 feet deep in convenient hole; covers with convenient shovel.*
*begins to walk away*
Cellphone: beedleybeedleybeedlybeeeeep!
Oh crap.
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124
Ötzi
in December 23rd, 2006 @ 22:22You know what makes me feel cynical?
“support our troops” ribbons on the back of big, fat, gas-guzzling SUVs.
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125
Ötzi
in December 23rd, 2006 @ 22:29No War
No Nukes
No Torture
No GenocideThat’ll be a good start.
Is it really too much to ask?
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126
Ötzi
in December 23rd, 2006 @ 22:35On the subject of drugs:
I learned today that marijuana production is above wheat production in many states. I say: Legalize it. Then: Tax it.
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127
Axa~☆
in December 24th, 2006 @ 00:14(123) YA RLY. I like throwing in those buzzwords while I’m talking to my friends just to mess with the government. But it really is sad and really…anger inciting that they monitor phone calls.
(126) That’s horrible, but making it legal would just up the production. And taxing it would lead to all sorts of ghastly complications…It makes my head hurt thinking about this.
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128
FrigidSymphony We Came, We Saw, We Conquered You All, We Came, We Saw, We Live By The Sword!
in December 24th, 2006 @ 06:38Marijuana can’t be all bad. I mean, come on, the Stones were constantly high, and look at them!
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129
Lizzie
in December 24th, 2006 @ 11:17128- What, the fact that they look like they’ve been dead for 20 years?
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130
Ötzi
in December 24th, 2006 @ 12:12129: hahahahahhahahahahahaha.
Pot is a “gateway drug” -it’s not particularly dangerous in and of itself, but the fact that it is illegal leads kids to think “Oh, i’ve already broken the law once, what’s one more….” and then they get into the really dangerous stuff, like crack and meth, among others. That’s what happened to Jimi Hendrix- he ended up ODing and passed out and asphyxiated in his own vomit in a lonely hotel room in London. Poor guy. RIP.
Personally, I think drugs are a vulnerability. I’d never touch anything like that with a ten foot pole.
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131
Julieb
in December 24th, 2006 @ 13:07Legalizing drugs would really mean the eventual end of the human race. It’s a down hill slope. Think about it. Lets say 50% of teens start using. That ups death tolls, babies born out of wedlock, babies addicted to drugs, production would go down, b/c nobodys gonna hire a drugged up employee, lung cancer rates would soar, poverty and unemployment too, which means the government would have to shell out money it doesn’t have. The next generation would be even more likely to use, and eventually nobody would be doing anything and the country would be a wasteland. Teens are stupid, and truthfully, if you trust them to make the decision not to do drugs, our country’s gonna go down the tubes. Sure, it might work on a small scale, but it wouldn’t work in the US. And please don’t be offended by the teens are stupid comment, I am aware that it is a huge generalization and I certainly don’t include MBers.
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132
Ötzi
in December 24th, 2006 @ 20:41131: Au contraire. The main reason many teens do drugs, alcohol, etc. is for the rush they get from doing something illegal. Given the contrary mindset of most teenagers, many of them would probably lose interest if pot were legal. Supposedly, it’s part of the whole “rebel” persona. Stupid, yes, but true.
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Julieb
in December 25th, 2006 @ 16:03132- I agree, but most teens would still feel it rebelious, since no doubt their parents wouldn’t condone the action. They’re are plenty of rebelious but legal things teens do, like wear questionable clothing and going to concerts just because their parents dislike the music. If it made their parents angry, they would do it, legal or not, especially if it makes them feel good. And, if it was legal (though there would probably be an age limit) they couldn’t be arrested and therefore would be able to flaunt their actions knowing that they were defying their parents and immune to trouble (because after a while, most parents would just give up on grounding them)
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134
dark lord of darkness
in December 25th, 2006 @ 17:5884-eergh. a vast majority of crimes are committed by people who dont have enogh money, and want more. about other cities, you are right, but new york is more so than the rest. 84-patriots?
85- well, arent we happy. we’re better than AFRICAN places. so, all of Africa is one thing. tis a continent. but basically what ou are saying is that we are better than dictatorships, and places with extreme poverty. is that really what we want to aspire to?
88- you dont live here.
93-ah, but your parents can. and since america is a democracy, ruled by the people, and they are responsible for its actions.
92-xactly.
94-yes, it does. read above.
95-every country has its flaws. but some more than others.
104-its still a democracy. if a majority of people had a problem with how bush won, things would change. but they didnt . so, it is your fault. and, yes, mine too. although i would say less so because my parents vote as far left as possible and and politically involved.
111-asoloutly. i completrly agree with you. go to this
2 things. 1 proportional representation. get rid of the 250 year old electoral college. 2 instant run off for president. people rank who they want to be president. if, when going through 1st choices, noone has more than 50%, they go to second choice. those votes are added on. the person with the least votes is eliminated. and so on, until there is one winner. using this system, poeple like ralph nader could get their message out without $#^#^$ing up election results. and plz dont zap the linky.
105-hey… guess who banned smoking? and trans fats? okay now. i really will stop.
106-indeed. i agree with you. but in most cases, fast fod restaurants are not hones about it. when was the last time you saw a sign in mcdonalds saying “trans fats kill. and we use them in everything! enjoy!”
110-not true. many people are drug addicts because it is cool to be “bad” if it was legal, it wouldnt be bad.
126-yay! yes, do that.
131-rofl. dont you thinkyoure exagerating a bit? and there is no way 50% of teenagers start using.
132-indeed.
phew. now stops my glorification of nyc. and yeah. plz dont zap the link. and wikipedia instant runoff and proportional represntation. and yeah. that was really long.[Link allowed. –Admin.]
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135
Axa
in December 25th, 2006 @ 19:58Look, if marijuana is legal, that means it’s legal to advertise it as well. Just like the smoking industry, you can bet that 1) it will be led by bad people and 2) the campaigning for it would be relentless.
Drugs=Bad. Bottom line here.
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136
Violetfire
in December 25th, 2006 @ 20:18but you guys are all gambling on chances with the marijuana legalization. maybe people will use it less, but maybe they wont. the reason it’s banned is because it does bad things to people, and not only is it dangerous to people who use it but to everybody around them. for example, someone smokes some, then, because it makes you very perceptive of the world around you, they think they’re safe and stuff. they go for a drive, then get even higher and get in a crash and kill people. that’s why its banned. because innocent people are harmed. if it could only hurt the people who were stupid enough to take it, i’d be fine with that. but lots of people could be hurt.
did you ever notice in the song With a Little Help From My Friends by the Beatles, the chorus goes:
Oh I get by with a little help from my friends
Mm I get high with a little help from my friends
Mm going to try with a little help from my friendsDo you think they really meant that about getting high?
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137
SupremeMuser2000
in December 26th, 2006 @ 13:30117- You sure sound like him. Either say something nice, or say nothing. I’d like it if you chose the second option.
136- Noticed it. Never really cared. I don’t think marijuana (spelling?) should be legalized. I agree w/ you.
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138
niugnep
in December 26th, 2006 @ 14:53People use illegal drugs. By legallizing them probably more people would use them, but not a lot more. Alcohol and tobaco are legal even though they are harmful, but relatively few people smoke because of the high level of regulation and propaganda campaigns against it, and alcohol mostly used in moderation.
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139
Chipmunks are bringin' it real bad
in December 26th, 2006 @ 15:17So, I’m guessing there’s another flame war between FrigidSymphony and SupremeMuser2000. I’m going to have to side with the SupremeMuser2000.
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140
SupremeMuser2000
in December 26th, 2006 @ 17:00Chipmunks- I wouldn’t say flamewar, but a war none the less. Thank you for siding with me.
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141
Axa
in December 26th, 2006 @ 17:44lawl at 139.You all don’t know flamewars. This is nothing. Not even the last thread had anything close to the worst I’ve seen. Oh wank, my dear friend…
(138) Actually, a LOT of people smoke. I think there might be less new smokers or something like that though.
New topic would be in order, since this one has been exhausted.
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142
Chipmunks are bringin' it real bad
in December 27th, 2006 @ 11:06140- You’re welcome. We need to stop agreeing.
141- Wasn’t the last thread worse? It probably was.
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143
Violetfire
in December 27th, 2006 @ 17:30flamewars used to get really bad before the GAPAs started enforcing some rules… they prefer us not to get flamewarlike. Hail the keepers of the peace!
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144
Shadowkat
in December 27th, 2006 @ 17:32Gah…I wish everyone would just be nice to each other…I mean, I know this is the Hot Topics thread, but, seriously, we don’t need to hate each other…it makes me sad when I hear people insulting each other, but on the MuseBlog, of all places…we can state our opinions, but if we need to be mean to someone else in order to do it, it’s probably not worth it. I kinda rambled there, but I had to say something.
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145
niugnep
in December 27th, 2006 @ 17:35I know this was a while ago, but it came back to my attention recently. What do you think of the Danish cartoon which depicted Muhamed as violent. Does he have a right to do that, or should he try to be a little more sensitive? I shudder to ask, but is it true? I don’t know a lot about it, but I think that the muslim world can’t really expect us be careful and polite to them, considering how they treat us. I know that not all muslims are terrorists, but they are mostly anti American (NPR never lies). In the interest of balance, they have a right to get really mad at us, but not because of cartoons.
And let’s not take sides in any flame/nonflame wars which may arise. World War I was just a little quarrel between Austria and Germany (I think) until alliances pulled in much of the rest of Europe.
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146
Shadowkat
in December 27th, 2006 @ 17:45145-Oh, no, NPR lies…trust me…they’re the media…they practically have to lie.
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147
Lizzie
in December 27th, 2006 @ 17:46136- well, duh they meant it. I mean, from about Help! on, the Beatles pretty much spent the entire time high/stoned or on other drugs… Apparently the director-person got pretty fed up with their constant giggling in the middle of takes.. And Paul constantly playing “yesterday” on the piano, but that’s a different story..
You know, Hot Topics was originally suggested to form a place where people would use _more_ courtesy and consideration of what they were saying and how it might come across to others, and to be a place where people could debate “hot” subjects without subjecting other people who would prefer not to to the debate.. In other words, it was formed so people would think and actually _support_ their point and try to see things from other points of views, etc, instead of just saying “I’m right and you guys are all wrong and stupid and idiots because you disagree with me”, which seems to be what it’s deteriorated into…
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148
Violetfire
in December 27th, 2006 @ 18:38i have no idea what that cartoon is, but a lot of political cartoonists draw things that are not very nice to influential people in the world. *coughcoughgeorgebushcough* you shouldn’t take them seriously. they’re meant to be funny.
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149
Axa
in December 27th, 2006 @ 19:45(142) Really bad flamewars consists of recurrent cursing and arguing that is not only pointless, but baseless, and basically random in the sense that it comes from nowhere. Argh I’m off topic. -_- Sorry.
(145) I think it’s morbidly ironic that, when the Pope made that off color statement about Muslims being violent, they -in protest of that- killed some nuns. Not a good way to enforce your point, is it? I don’t mean offense. The real problem in the world is religious extremists of all religions.
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150
FrigidSymphony We Came, We Saw, We Conquered You All, We Came, We Saw, We Live By The Sword!
in December 28th, 2006 @ 12:40The danish cartoonists had every right to portray mohammed the way they did, and the fact that the muslim world got so flamed up about is a point against that type of society, which seems at certain points to be a very violent society. Honestly, between christians in the west and muslims in the east, I’m scared.
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151
Julieb
in December 28th, 2006 @ 13:56Has anyone read the TIME articles on the pope’s speach ? They were actually really interesting. I mean, it definitely wasn’t in his best interests to make such an extreme generalization, but in some ways he did make a point. It’s true that a lot of muslim terrorists do what they do because they feel god wants them to, using passages from the Quoran (I’m sorry, I have no idea if I spelled that right) written during times of war as support for their actions. On the other hand, most muslims aren’t terrorists. Most muslims don’t want to be associated with terrorists. Many muslims support peace. They don’t feel their religion supports violence. BTW, the danish cartoon didn’t help anything. In fact, that probably just made relations worse because it angered all muslims, and didn’t really make a point, everyoned knew terrorists would do something violent after that.
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152
Lizzie
in December 28th, 2006 @ 14:15151- It’s not just limited to Muslim terorists – most acts of terrorism, atrocities, etc in the past have been in the name of some god. Terrorists from all faiths have used their holy books to support their acts.
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153
Shadowkat
in December 28th, 2006 @ 14:16151-It’s spelled “Koran”, but don’t worry about it, and please don’t be embarrassed…I just want to help you not spell it wrong again. Sorry about the disclaimer, but some people would take offense at that.
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154
Chipmunks are bringin' it real bad
in December 28th, 2006 @ 14:31153- I thought it was spelled ‘Quaran’.
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Lizzie
in December 28th, 2006 @ 14:46153/4- actually, Qur’an, Koran, Quran, and Al-Quran are all accepted transliterations.
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156
Robert Coontz (Administrator)
in December 28th, 2006 @ 14:51There’s more about the transliteration here:
https://musefanpage.com/blog/?p=570#comment-107
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157
Ebeth The Stalker
in December 28th, 2006 @ 15:12153-I don’t know if that’s apologetic enough, s’kitty. I may have to take offense at that.
Dang, i miss Time. Must ask parentals about getting it again.
150-’tis a frightening prospect. Zey vill crush you and suck your blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahd. Just kidding. Christians and muslims aren’t vampires. Only vampires are vampires. Vampires could be christian or muslim, but that’s their own business. Anyway, i think they have their own vampirical sort of thing going on. And aren’t they skared off by religious symbols anyway? Make it kind of hard to be a religious vampire, don’t you think? But this conversation is utterly pointless as well as absolutely ridiculous. And on a completely unrelated subject, i would like to say that the frosting from the gingerbread house is extremely tasty.
Terrorists. Have. Issues. They may back themselves up with their own twisted views of religion, but that doesn’t mean religion backs them. People need to get that straight. It’s not like the high priests and rabbis and whatever other high up religious peoples wake up and say “hmm, let’s destroy other peoples’ stuff in the name of god/allah/the sun/the high supreme hot pink bunny/whoever today” No, it’s the terrorists who wake up and say “hmm, let’s destroy other peoples’ stuff in the name of god/allah/the sun/the high supreme hot pink bunny/whoever today” Or something like that. And i’m probably preaching to the choir here. I wouldn’t think musers would make that mistake. But whatevs.
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158
Margaret
in December 28th, 2006 @ 16:40Anyone want to join me in destroying the world in the name of the Supreme Hot Pink Bunny?
Yeah, it never made sense to me.
I once heard a song by a woman named Holly Near with the words
“I ain’t afraid of your Yahweh
I ain’t afraid of your Allah
I ain’t afraid of your Jesus
I’m afraid of what you do in the name of your God.”
I was saying to my mom yesterday that we should start a fundraising campaign for schools and send everyone back to kindergarten, with emphasis on the “getting along” part.
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159
Kiara
in December 28th, 2006 @ 18:33158 – I totally agree. Kindergarten was such a fun place. Snack time, nap time, music time. Saying “I’ll give you a cookie if you’ll be my freind” worked every time. Maybe we could solve more problems with cookies……………..No, probably not. But yeah, Kindergarten definently sounds like a good idea (except for people like you who have enough sense to think these things up) Great idea!
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160
astronomerrox!
in December 29th, 2006 @ 09:53158) Totally. We learned during our Civil War studies about that John Brown guy, who killed those people like in the name of god or something? Nope, doesn’t fly. I thought god was peaceful?
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161
Piggy
in December 29th, 2006 @ 12:39i was just reading through the posts and I came across something about marijuana. did you know that marijuana has become our nation’s top cash crop? more than corn or wheat or anything. weird, huh?
Pwt pwns
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162
Margaret
in December 29th, 2006 @ 14:43159 ~ Heck, I’d love to go back to kindergarten! Maybe in a different class than the terrorists, but like you said…nap time, snack time, music time…who could resist?
160 ~ That guy was a nut case. ‘Nuff said.
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Axa
in December 29th, 2006 @ 15:12(152) I agree, try the Crusades. Hundreds of years of warfare over nothing.
I’ve always thought that whole “in the name of God” thing was idiotic. How are we to know what God/etc wants…?
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164
Shadowkat
in December 29th, 2006 @ 15:16157-Sorry, how’s this? Oh, great and revered Ebeth the Stalker, please accept my humble apologies for helping you to not look stupid in the eyes of your admirers! Thank you.
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165
Physcotic Attacking Penguin
in December 29th, 2006 @ 19:47157. agree about the terrorist thing…was thinking tho, and im muslim arab (desent) so i can say this…
ayatollahs, immams, etc. should speak out against the terrorists using their religon as an excuse to kill people
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166
Margaret
in December 29th, 2006 @ 20:05May I bring up this whole Saddam-Hussein-is-being-hanged-within-an-hour thing? Opinions? Do you think this is going to stir up extremists more, or is it a good move?
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167
Margaret
in December 29th, 2006 @ 22:06Well, it happened, so I guess we’ll see.
Night, MB.
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168
Zallie
in December 30th, 2006 @ 12:57166 – I’m just shocked that they did it at all. It’s so barbaric, the death-penalty, and I honestly don’t see what it will accomplish, aside from a show of force. That’s all it is really, a chance to show everyone just how much power the US Gov. weilds.
I don’t approve of death as a punnishment, no matter the crime. No one deserves that.
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Lizzie
in December 30th, 2006 @ 13:22166/68- “Many live who deserve death; some die who deserve life – can you give it to them?”
Basically, I’m against the death penalty in general.. I don’t know, maybe keeping Hussain alive would have been more productive, showing symbolically the dedication to a new era of un-bloodiness and all that stuff, but I don’t know, I’m kind of just talking off the top of my head here..
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170
Piggy
in December 30th, 2006 @ 14:10right on, Zallie (168)! w00t! death penalty is just another crime. what good does it do? awesome
Pwt pwns
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171
FrigidSymphony We Came, We Saw, We Conquered You All, We Came, We Saw, We Live By The Sword!
in December 30th, 2006 @ 14:16He’s dead, and I honestly don’t care. The muslim extremists will be trouble anyway, and to Saddam I say good riddance.
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172
niugnep
in December 30th, 2006 @ 14:18Hussein should be dead now (I haven’t actually confirmed it yet). Do you feel any safer? Has your life suddenly improved?
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173
Axa
in December 30th, 2006 @ 15:46Since they caught him, he hasn’t done much of anything except yell a lot in the court rooms. That’s it. I agree that his hanging was basically a pointless show of force. I guess it’s supposed to make us feel like we “accomplished” what we set out to do in Iraq.
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174
Zallie
in December 30th, 2006 @ 15:52171 – you’re saying that if the ‘muslim extremists’ are going stir things up anyway we might as well execute someone? i don’t agree about that, but i’d at least like to understand your viewpoint.
172 – no, i don’t feel safer. should i?
169 – i definitely agree with you. keeping saddam alive would show that America is trying to keep the conflict blood-free etc.
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175
FrigidSymphony We Came, We Saw, We Conquered You All, We Came, We Saw, We Live By The Sword!
in December 30th, 2006 @ 16:15174: Of course. Religious extremists will behave in an idiotic manner no matter what happens to Saddam. If he’d been imprisoned they’d complain. If he’d been freed they would have reallied about him and been an even bigger nuisance. Now they have a martyr to use as a cause for their actions rather than a leader or an imprisoned hero.
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176
nerdz__r00l
in December 30th, 2006 @ 16:25168-I know you might argue aggainst this but-there should be the death penalty in my opinion.
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177
Robert Coontz (Administrator)
in December 30th, 2006 @ 17:06There seems to be some confusion here. Saddam Hussein was a religious moderate. The extremists were his enemies. In fact, last night the news reported that his last words were “Muqtada as-Sadr”–the leader of the Shi’ite Mahdi Army, a bitter enemy both of Saddam and of the current Iraqi government (and the United States and other foreign forces that support it).
The people angriest about the execution appear to be Palestinians and the Libyan leader, Muammur Qaddhafi. Again, their reasons are not primarily religious.
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178
Margaret
in December 30th, 2006 @ 18:26I ended up staying up till eleven last night to find out if they’d actually done it.
I oppose the death penalty in general, although if anyone deserved it, it was him. Still, what did it accomplish?
Also, it wasn’t the US government’s descision, although they were, of course, instrumental in making it happen.
177 ~ Thanks for clearing that up.
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179
Musketeer Number 5
in December 31st, 2006 @ 10:02I think it’s sick that Saddam is hanged for “ordering the killings of tons of people”, which he definetly did…but what about Bush??!! Hasn’t he, in sending us into Iraq, “ordered the killing of tons of people”??!! Discounting the dead soldiers, there are still thousands of civilians dead. I guess the only difference is that Bush masks it by calling it “liberating the Iraqi peoples” while Hussien just called it what it was ” murder”.
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Julieb
in January 1st, 2007 @ 14:12179- I agree completly. I have very little else to say on the subject. On the death penalty, only in extreme cases, like mass murderers. Otherwise, no.
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Margaret
in January 1st, 2007 @ 14:28This is in response to Kiara:
The hate rally happened because there was a small fight at the high school where one kid punched another in the face and did a lot of damage (he had to have surgery and stuff). Now, obviously that was a bad thing, and the kid who did the punching got what he deserved, but that wasn’t enough for the injured kid’s mom. See, the kid who did the punching was black, and the injured kid was white. No one thought the fight was racially motivated, except the kid’s mom, who contacted a white supremacist by the name of Hal Turner. He felt it necessary to pay a visit to our town and have a little hate rally. For the most part, people stayed away (the mayor and the principal of our school and so on were encouraging people not to go) but I am proud to say that there were several times as many counter-demonstrators as there were Hal Turner-types.179 ~ That is an interesting point.
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182
SupremeMuser2000
in January 2nd, 2007 @ 13:09He should have been tortured.
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183
Margaret
in January 2nd, 2007 @ 15:41How about the possible constitutional ban on same-sex marriage in Massachusetts?
My opinion: Well…I don’t understand the thought process of those who support the ban. If any of you do, could you please enlighten me?
Anyway, I guess it’s surprising that gay marriage lasted so long there in the first place. That’s something.182 ~ But wouldn’t that be lowering ourselves to his level?
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184
Shadowkat
in January 3rd, 2007 @ 19:16183-Well, I don’t support the ban persay, but legal marriage is defined as a union between a man and a woman, so they can get a contract (I forget what it’s technically called right now…)…I don’t care if they do that, but I’ve always supported tradition, so….
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Margaret
in January 3rd, 2007 @ 19:32184 ~ Well, yeah, but by who? Probably a bunch of straight guys a couple hundred years ago. I mean, I know a bunch of gay people (family friends) who live in Massachusetts and were married there, and I’m not any worse off because of it. Are you?
Also, if traditions were always supported, I’d probably be wearing a corset and a petticoat right now. I wouldn’t be looking forward to ski club or the start of the soccer season, or even getting to vote in four years. It took a long time for people to change their minds on those things. A hundred-fifty or so years ago, people would have been shocked to see my ankles, but now, you’d be hard pressed to find someone who thinks it’s wrong that I like to wear two piece swimsuits that show my stomach (well, my belly? Whatever), and most of us think that the old tradition was ridiculous. I hope so, anyway.
Is my point making any sense? I’m not sure.
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SupremeMuser2000
in January 4th, 2007 @ 17:04184- Instead of killing him and letting get out of it easy, we should have showed him what it was like to be one of his victims. And let him think on it. Oh well, he’s now burning in hell.
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Margaret
in January 4th, 2007 @ 18:20186 ~ I still think that it would have been hypocritical to toture Saddam. I mean, it’s like slapping a little kid when you’re explaining that she shouldn’t have slapped someone else – way to set an example, huh? The letting him think on it part I agree with. Life in prison or something.
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nerdz__r00l
in January 4th, 2007 @ 18:40186-Bust if we did that, wouldn’t the islamic extremists get really angry?
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nerdz__r00l
in January 4th, 2007 @ 18:41I mean but.
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Axa
in January 4th, 2007 @ 20:45(182) Thus negating any sliver of respect the world has left for the US. Not only would that make us outright hypocrites, but it’s pointless.
(183) I’m at a loss as to why marriage is even a “Constitutional” issue. So not what the founding fathers had in mind.
Honestly, we preach on our soapboxes about the founding fathers and America’s birth, but no one seems to pay much attention to the original message and hopes of those founders. I
d really like for some of the higher ups to read Washington’s Farewell Address and THEN go about ruling a country.
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☀Kiki the Great☀
in January 5th, 2007 @ 09:56Have you guys heard about those parents who stunted a little disabled girl’s growth and removed her uterus? They said they wanted to always be at a “comfortable size” and not have to “experience the discomfort of going through puberty”. Basically, they stopped her growing. She’s going to look like an eight year old forever. What do you think? I think it’s completely unethical.
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Robert Coontz (Administrator)
in January 5th, 2007 @ 10:04The story was in the papers yesterday. You can read it on Bloomberg.com and CNN.com.
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SupremeMuser2000
in January 5th, 2007 @ 10:53191- I saw it on Nancy Grace last night. It’s horrible.
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Kiki the Great
in January 5th, 2007 @ 11:27I know!
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195
Pentatonikk
in January 5th, 2007 @ 13:49I didn’t hear about that, but it’s awful. Parents (despite what they may think) do not have any right to ruin their child’s life. I sort of understand where they’re coming from, but they still should not have done what they did.
Torturing Saddam would not have helped anything. Besides the facts that it would be totally hypocritical (Let’s torture a criminal who tortured people!) and that torture is never ethical, period, it reeks of eye-for-eye thinking, which creates more problems than it solves. ‘Giving him a taste of his own medicine’ will not fix anything. The people he tortured and killed will not magically be alive again. We will anger his supporters even more. He would be more of a martyr, since he would be a victim of ‘brutal American hypocrisy’ or some such. Keeping him alive would be the best solution, but it’s a bit late for that now.
I refuse to discuss gay marriage because we’ve done it to death already.
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Zallie
in January 5th, 2007 @ 14:29195 – agreed. I understand the parents’ view point, but I don’t think it was the right thing to do. Hormonal therapy really freaks me out in general, but this was especially unnerving. Stopping the rest of her growth is just kind of creepy, y’know?
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SupremeMuser2000, the All Mighty Queen of Museicalifornia
in January 5th, 2007 @ 15:26How can they do that? It’s just…. urggg….. sickening.
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Julieb
in January 7th, 2007 @ 18:36I don’t think any of us can criticize if we don’t have any experiance caring for a mentally disabled person. I know a family who has a severly autistic daughter in addition to two healthy children and I know how hard it is to take care of her. Imagine having the responsibility for the life of someone who can not walk, talk, eat by themselves, use the bathroom by themselves, get dressed, even maintain eye contact. Most people would just have an abortion. Do you really think that making the girl a little easier to take care of is such a horrible thing?
Ugg. I am so frustrated. There’s a new no-hat rule at my school, and everyone was talking about protesting it (it was put in place because there’s been some gang activity around here) and I just want to shake them. The american people have lost almost every right in the bill of rights, but take away our hats and we’re staging a full protest. *bangs head against desk*
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SupremeMuser2000, the All Mighty Queen of Museicalifornia
in January 10th, 2007 @ 11:09198-It is such a bad thing. My family actually DID have an MR patient living with us for about 6 years and we would never think of doing that. It is taking away the persons rights, even if they’re not aware of it.
And on the ‘No-Hat’ rule, that’s stupid. What do hats have to do with gangs? I would protest too.
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Julieb
in January 10th, 2007 @ 15:49It’s not like she’s ever going to get better. The reports say that she’s fine after the surgery. Come on, it’s not like they are hiding something from her, secretly taking away rights without consent. She doesn’t understand, and can’t. I’m not saying this is the aproach people should take in every case, but this girl is very low functioning, and they aren’t putting her in any pain. Legally It is the parents descision.
Hats=gang symbol. I don’t know.
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SupremeMuser2000, the All Mighty Queen of Museicalifornia
in January 10th, 2007 @ 15:59200-It may be thier desicion, but there’s no point in it.
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Ötzi
in January 11th, 2007 @ 12:42Gay Marriage: May it please the jury, I submit the text of
Section 1 of the 14th amendment of the United States.All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Hats: Tinker v. Des Moines
A student sued succesfully for the right to wear an armband with a peace symbol on it to school. This case set a precedent. Some elementary shcools ban little kids from wearing bndanas over their hair for the same reason.I mean, come on.Saddam: I think what they did was hypocritical anyway. You can’t fight fire with fire. There is a video on YouTube of him being hanged, taken with a camera-phone. Yes, I’ve seen it. No, I didn’t really want to. Someone kind of made me. Anyway, it wasn’t humane at all. They dropped him in the middle of his prayers. I know that he was a horrible man, a dictator, a torturer, and a mass-murderer, but I still don’t believe in corporal punishment. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
The little girl and Hormone Therapy: This is very marshy ground. I really don’t know. If they had not done it, both she and they would have had to deal with alot more: mood swings, menstruation, etc. On the other hand, it’s kind of creepy. I think that only she can truly make the decision, and she can’t even comprehend it. I don’t think her parents made the decision lightly. I wonder if they consulted any ethicists.
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SupremeMuser2000, the All Mighty Queen of Museicalifornia
in January 11th, 2007 @ 16:10202- Can we PLEASE get over the gay marriage topic? I’ve heard enough about it.
Hats: What’s wrong with wearing an armband with a peace symbol on it? I wear one, of course my school has no dress code.
Saddam: I wouldn’t let some one force me into watching something like that. It is inhumane, but that’s their choice, and yes, it is hypocritical. I still say he should have been tortured.
The little girl and Hormone Therapy: What difference would it have made if they had left her alone? Probably nothing. It’s not like she would have been that much harder to take care of.
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Axa
in January 11th, 2007 @ 20:35I think the whole thing about the disabled girl is that her parents are jerks and think that it’s not as embarrassing to have a mentally challenged kid as it is to have a mentally challenged adult child, since they will most likely be taking care of her for her whole life.
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Zallie
in January 11th, 2007 @ 21:32203 – I dunno, caring for an adult would be much harder physically than caring for a little girl. What if her parents needed to carry her for some reason? I almost agree with them, but hormone therapy is just so creepy.
198 – I agree on that too. None of us can really criticize unless we’ve lived with a family member with severe mental disabilities. We should walk a while in the parents’ shoes before we decide whether or not this was a good decision.
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dark lord of darkness
in January 12th, 2007 @ 00:55new thread for a new year needed !@!!!!!
hot topics v 2007.1!!!!
203-he should have been tortured, instead he was hanged. still you do not want to watch it, because it is too upsetting. dont you think it might be upsetting to him? that is very hypocritical. how could you ever do something to someone o hrrible for you to watch? im tired. i will return
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