Tuesday, 14 May 2024
Life, the universe, pies, hot-pink bunnies, world domination, and everything
A hot topic, still going strong.
See also v. 2007.1 and last year’s religon threads.
Date: March 18, 2007
Categories: Life, The Universe
Hello peeps! What religious stuff do you want to talk about?
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I propose a clean start from last time’s tragic mess.
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2- Yeah. How about (drumroll) ……………….
Be nice to others! Okay?
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Right, so, let’s hit the ground running.
I am a pastafarian. I’m part of the church of The FSM.
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ummmm.
maybe. lol. no personal attacks, just attacks on religions as a whole, mmk?
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I’m Jewish, I guess Reform.
4- What’s pastafarian? I’ve never heard of it before.
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6 – Here’s your answer, copied and edited from Wikiipedia
THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER
The Flying Spaghetti Monster is the deity of a parody religion founded in 2005 by Bobby Henderson to protest against the decision by the Kansas State Board of Education to require the teaching of intelligent design as an alternative to biological evolution. In an open letter sent to the education board, Henderson professes belief in a supernatural Creator called the Flying Spaghetti Monster, which resembles spaghetti and meatballs. He furthermore calls for the “Pastafarian” theory of creation to be taught in science classroom. Followers of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM) call themselves Pastafarians, a portmanteau of pasta and Rastafarian.
—
I’m not the most faithful for the religion, though. I’ve read His book of gospel, but it’s such a (forgive me for saying this) stupid book that I’ve already forgotten most of it.
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2- last time was not a mess. how can you say it was a mess?! It was not a mess.
Come on people, say something controversial!
I can’t think of anything right now…
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This is the Religions thread, not the Controversy thread. If nobody has anything to say right now, then maybe we don’t need this thread right now.
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I’m a Christian. I can answer your questions about Christianity.
I have a few questions for other folks out there.
Hindus…how exactly did the universe start out, according to you?
Bhuddists…what happens to you after you escape the cycle of life and death?
Jews…do you belive Jesus was a great prophet, or a trickster, or what?
Muslims…what religion was Mohammud before he got his vision from Allah? And why is it morally wrong to draw a picture of him?
I’m curious about what other people belive, so I can better understand those people. I’m not trying to start a flame war, just asking some questions about stuff I don’t quite get.
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I have heard of pastafarianism before, but i’ve always wondered if there are people who actually believe it, or is it just kind of a joke?
I am a Jewish atheist, as I said in the last thread.
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10-I think Jesus was just a person, I don’t believe that he was God’s son or anything (though I personally don’t particularly believe in god anyway) but not necessarily a trickster, he might have actually believed it himself, i don’t really know. But this doesn’t necessarily represent the view of Jews in general, just mine personally.
many apologies for the double ost, if this is, but post 10 didn’t appear until after i had already submitted my last one.
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11 – Jewish atheist? 
Isn’t god the basis of Jewish religion and tradition? Can you explain this to me?
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7- 
10- I think that most Jews don’t care about Jesus. However, there is a Jewish group out there that believes in Jesus, but they’re definitely not a majority.
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can we have a religions list anytime u can get 2 it, e~a? just wondering.
i’m Radical Atheist, as previously stated. unlike some people, *coughfridgeycoughcough* I don’t change my religion every thread.
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10: Mohammed was pagan, as was everyone in the middle east. A bunch of sects. And you can’t draw a picture of him because that just gives the muslim radicals an excuse to be violent.
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15: You’re an idiot. Asatru is a form of paganism.
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17- NAME-CALLING ALREADY?!!!!! THAT IS WHY I NEVER WENT TO THE LAST THREAD, BUT I WAS HOPING THIS ONE COULD BE DIFFERENT! Maybe not. *sigh* *sobs*
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18: You’re an emotional wimp. Grow a backbone and contribute to the discussion.
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Sorry, FrigidSymphony. Insulting other MBers is crossing the line. You know better. I’m banning you from the blog for a week. Lurk as much as you like, but you won’t be able to post.
I don’t enjoy doing this, but things have been getting unMuserly and unMuselike around here, and it’s got to stop.
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20- Wow.
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20 – whoa
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12, 14 – Thanks for answering my question.
16 – Umm…that wasn’t the answer I was looking for. When my social studies class was learning about the Islamic dynasty, our teacher showed us several slides of Mohammud’s life. But in the pictures, every occurance of Mohammud was completely covered up with some sort of black box. I asked my teacher about that, and he said for Muslims it’s disrespectful to show a picture of Mohammud. I was wondering why that would be.
18 – Please come back. I don’t think there will be much more name-calling for a while now, so we can talk in a civilized manner.
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C4C,
Please explain again why you want to be anonymous. Our usual policy is to post aliases on the “Who’s Here” page when we spot them (and if we have the time). We’ve held off in this case, but we don’t understand why you think it’s necessary.
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It’s in case I say something really controversial or dumb or offensive, so I can just go back to my regular blog name if I need to. Just sort of a precaution to protect my blog identity and/or reputation.
Also because I have almost a completely different blogging personality when I talk about religion, and it would feel awkward posting about religion with my regular name. “Christian for Christ” talks about religion, and “———-” talks about other stuff. That’s all.
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10- My view is that Jesus was a nice Jewish boy whose reputation was greatly inflated after his death.
13- You can be culturally Jewish without believing in the religious aspect all to much. It’s complicated.
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(25),
All right, try it for a while longer. But if you don’t say anything dumb and nobody attacks you, please consider dropping the alias. MuseBlog really isn’t, or shouldn’t be, such a threatening place.
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ooooohhhhhhh…Fridgy got banned…anyways, i’m not an idiot. i’m just ignorant. not the same thing.
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Look, this is the kind of mud-slinging that happens alot in religious discussions. Deliberately being negative, as stress-relieving as it may be, helps no one.
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20- Thank you. I’m sure it is hard to do, so hopefully nobody else will have to be banned! 
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29- Yes, but he was being out-of-control.
As you know, I am Agnostic.
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10-Hindus believe the universe started with the word ‘Om.’ I believe the Bhavaghad Gita (sp?) explains this better than I could. As for Buddhists, they believe your soul goes to rest. Literally. Like sleeping.
23-It’s connected with false idolatry. It has something to do with worshipping something wrong.
How do Sikhs go on airplanes? In Canada there’s an exception, but there’s an envoy from the Indian lab in New Delhi coming soon and I’m a little worried about Mr. Singh.
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I wonder where FantasyFan?!?! has been. She had some really interesting input on the first religion thread.
C4C – Yes, we’re very nice! And MB shouldn’t be a place where people are afraid of what other people will think…
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27 – No, Museblog is a very nice place. Except maybe on the Hot Topics threads and sometimes on the Religion threads.
33 – I suppose, now that *cough* is gone…okay, if you really want to know, my real MuseBlog name is “davidude”.
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(20) – what I’m wondering is, how exactly do you ban someone? Couldn’t they just change their name, make a bogus, real-sounding e-mail adress and then post again?
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Can we make a universal rule, where nobody is allowed to insult another MuseBlogger, or attack their personal beliefs, and if someone does that their post will be zapped? I don’t want to make more work for the GAPAs, but I really think it would help around here.
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36 – Yea, I agree. I’m really suprised some stuff on the thread didn’t get zapped.
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36 – Yea, I agree. I’m really suprised some stuff on the other religions thread didn’t get zapped.
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10-I’m not Buddhist, but I used to be, and once you get out of the life and death cycle, you reach Nirvana, in which you pretty much become one with Nature, and are dully enlightened on everything…yes, everything.
20-Damn. I’m sorry, I don’t usually swear, as you know, but that’s pretty serious…you know you’re only making him more angry, and when he comes back, he’ll push the envelope as much as he can…unless…
Fridgey, please don’t be so mean…it’s not nice (duh), and it is unMuselike…just state your opinions without making other people feel bad…it never works.
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We prefer not to zap, except as a last resort. Personal identifying information, egregious swearing… Beyond that, we just state general guidelines and try to let MBers set the tone of the discussion. Sometimes that works better than others.
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We think you guys do a pretty good job of letting people know when they’re out of line. Most of the time that’s sufficient and in the long run, more effective. Peer pressure isn’t always a bad thing, you know, despite the way people usually use the term.
Taken as a whole, there really is very little name-calling on MuseBlog, which is one reason why it stands out so starkly when it happens.
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e~a, are you still making that religions list?
35- Well, I guess he could still post if he pretended to be someone else, but wouldn’t that defeat the purpose of posting?
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Do jewish people believe that Jesus existed but wasn’t the son of god?
What exactly is Hinduism?
Are Islam and Muslim the same?
Do christians believe that Muhammad was a prophet?
As in the Life of Pi, can you be Buddihst, Christian, and Jewish at once?
What’s the difference between Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, Evangelical, etc.?
Sorry, I’m confused.
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I have been researching gothic vs. romanesque vs. renaissance etc. architecture and looking at a lot of churches etc. thus seeing a lot of saints, thus thinking a lot about saints…
does anyone else realize how relatively sucessful many of the saints were…
take Joan of Arc: she says God talks to her, instead of living on a farm for the rest of her life with a guy her parents choose, she leads armies, influences heads of state and lives a pretty full life esp. for a woman. she is burned, but still she probably would have died young on a farm…
just a thought, i’m sure some saints believed what they were saying…but did all of them?
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Do jewish people believe that Jesus existed but wasn’t the son of god?
Yes. Though there is a small group of Jews who are called Jew for Jesus, who belive he was the song of god but still do all the Jewish stuff.
What exactly is Hinduism?
To be very basic, Hinduism states that how you behave in this life will affect your status in the next life.
Are Islam and Muslim the same?
Yes, pretty much. Islam is the religion, and Muslims are the followers.
Do christians believe that Muhammad was a prophet?
I would say no.
As in the Life of Pi, can you be Buddihst, Christian, and Jewish at once?
I’ve never read the book.
What’s the difference between Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, Evangelical, etc.?
There are tons of teensy differences in all of them. Catholics belive Eucharist is the body and blood of Christ, but Protestants belive that it is merely a reminder. Presbeterians belive that you should never show god in a picture. Eastern Catholics have a different altar and sing most everything in mass. Etc etc etc
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To all the Pagans here: The equinox is in a couple days! Do something to celebrate!
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42 – Maybe, but other people would still hear his ideas.
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45- Correction. Not ALL Jews believe in Jesus. I guess(I don’t know for sure) that the opinion varies for different people. It’s more an opinion thing, than religious is what I think.
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48 – I think that pretty much all Jews believe that he existed. Most believe he was a rabbi. Very few believe he was the son of God.
At least, I think that’s right.
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46 – Can you elaborate? I’m Quaker, but I love learning about other religions, etc..
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20-oh snap! ipban!!!
35-ipban.
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39 – nirvana? so basically you reach some 80’s old-school metal band? *confused*
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45- catholics are, sadly, very different from other christian churches. we are pretty much the only religion that places Mary at such a high level, but WE DON’T WORSHIP MARY! the Eucharist is, physically, that actual body and actual blood of God. look on the last thread for a more in-detail explanation. we respect the pope as the earthly head of the church, but God is the real head. our teachings come from the Bible and from tradition. papal infalibility states that anything that the Pope teaches as a religious fact is undoubtedly true. that’s how we know Mary was taken to heaven, soul and body.its aka “dogma” gtg
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10-what kind of christian are you? just wondering.
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52-lawl. i do believe teh term came before the grunge band. and i think they were thinking about nirvana when they were thinking about their name. y’know most people don’t just make up names for themselves.
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i am asdfisim any questions?
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53 – I am Catholic
56 – Are you the only follower of your religion?
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I’d prefer not to talk about my religion (or lack of) any more.
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55 – i know. i wuz just joking.
58 – well, then get off the danged thread.
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THere is a religion caleld objectivism that i just learned about today. Does anyone know what it is? The article wasn’t very helpful.
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It’s not a religion, but a political philosophy created by the novelist Ayn Rand. Very popular, though not highly regarded by college professors. It’s similar to libertarianism.
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*sighs* I’m not permanently attached to museblog or anything and I don’t have time right now to come here very often. If anyone’s noticed, I haven’t been on this thread at all up until this post. Anyways, as I’m horribly busy with two tech weeks at once, I won’t be updating the list anytime soon. Sorry. Patience, patience.
19- FS, That’s just plain cruel. I, too, agree that this thread should be for discussion and greater understanding of beliefs not the insulting of those beliefs. Being upset with others who insult each other is a perfectly natural reaction.
I’d love to hear about everyone’s beliefs! As they are such an important part to many people’s lives, they are fascinating to learn about. What is your favorite religious holiday/celebration for your religion and why?
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My religious beliefs don’t play a very big part in my life. That being said, I do find other people’s beliefs and other religions quite interesting. I’m agnostic, and I believe that there is some kind of higher power, but I don’t know what it is, nor do I feel that I necessarily need to know. If there is a greater force, I think that it will reveal itself to me in time, and that I shouldn’t spend my life trying to search for it. If there’s smething out there I should believe in, I think whatever it is will come to me naturally, in time.
And, just out of curiosity, could anyone give me an explaination of Taoism? I’ve read about it very briefly, but I don’t really know much about it.
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45- how would you go about showing god in a picture? I’m Presbyterian (I can never spell that right) and I’ve never heard that, but then again, I’ve never seen god in a picture either, so, yeah, I don’t know
49- I’m pretty sure there’s evidence that he existed, people don’t generally argue that he existed, just about what he said and did
62- (and everyone else that requested to learn about other religions) I am Presbyterian, but went to a catholic school, so I know a fair amount about both religions. As a presbyterian (having taken conformation a couple years ago) I know that our religion is “ruled” democratically, there are a bunch of groups of people of different levels of power (almost like catholosism) only people vote on leaders, etc etc. We believe that all people become saints when they die,( er, um, all people that go to heaven become saints…but I’m not sure how we can tell if they went to heaven or not, so, umm, ya, something like that) not just a few people are like in catholosism. Lets see, what else did I learn in conformation??? oh, we aren’t guaranteed to go to heaven if we just believe in Jesus (I believe Evangelical christians believe that(?)…) we have to try hard while we are living to please god and not sin and all, we can’t just say, “I BELIEVE!” and get sent to heaven.
so, ya, that’s what I remember about Presbyterians right now… hope it helped
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Alright, here is how I would summarize atheism:
There is no god or gods. Most of us respect other religions. There is no afterlife, I just picture death as darkness, sort of like dreamless sleep. There is no “sinning” or anything, I just try to be ethical and moral and I naturally feel bad when I’m not. Overall pretty simple.
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59- Oh no you DIDN’T.
65- Basically the same here, but I picture death as more of well……. I don’t know how to describe it.
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66 – 1st comment: meh?
2nd comment: i know how u feel.
65 – good summary. except with radical atheism, you excerpt the “respect” part.
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65 & 66-I guess I’m like you’ve guys. I’ve never gone to church, so I’ve sort of developed my own look on life, but I don’t really believe in God or talk about religion with other people. I respect what they think and turn away. Death is a mystery to me, sort of like the great unknown that I’ll always wonder about.
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Is anyone a Christian Scientist? I find their ideas very intriguing.
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50: If you’re Wiccan (+ probably many other forms of Paganism do this as well), you have certain rituals for each solstice and equinox.
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70 – what kinds of things do you do? Wicca sounds like a really interesting religion, and I want to learn more about it…
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10,43,49- About Jews and Jesus: Most jews will acknowledge that he probably existed in some form or another but do not give him any actual importance and do NOT believe that he was the son of god.
A word about Jew for Jesus (that’s what the jews who believe in jesus call themselves,) in my opinion the are not jews. The main differance between judaism and christianity is the New testament which is basicaly Jesus. So if you have a jew who believes in jesus, you’ve basically got a christian.
Sorry if that offended anyone, it’s just my opinion.
Any way, if you haven’t guessed, I’m jewish. A conservative to be exact. I keep kosher and all that stuuf.
Oh yeah, my dad’s a rabbi…
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Here’s a question, and I hope it won’t start a big fight:
Why do you have a religion?
I say that I’m Pastafarian, but that “religion” is really just a big joke.
I’m just wondering…
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I was brought up with my religion. I’ve learned about it since I was born.
About Jesus and Jews and stuff:
Jesus definently existed. He had to. If this was all some big conspiracy, some big hoax, someone would expose it. You can’t keep a hoax with 2 billion belivers for 2,000 years!!! Too many people claimed to see him. No hoax would hold if you had to persuade thousands of people to say, “I saw him.” And Jews for Jesus carry on all the traditions as a Jew, but have the belifs of Christianity. Just the same as earlier, you could argue that a Jew who doesn’t belive in God isn’t a Jew. And by the way, 43, it’s not really possible to be all three of those religions. At least 2 of them state they are the only true religion, so with all three belifs you’d be torn in three.
73 – Partly because my entire family belives in the religion. Partly because I don’t want to belive in nothing after death. I want to belive in a nice god who is compassionate and merciful. And partly because [not meaning to start a flame war] Christianity is real . The Bible is so interesting, so, just, TRUE…it just is. It’s hard to explain. (Again, this is my personal belif.) Jesus says he is the only way to truth and life, and I belive that. And it makes me have a feeling of purpose in my life, not that I’m just here because the right chemical compounds happened to mush together in just the right way 3 billion years ago. I’m here to spread the word…but not be a jerk about it. So, yeah. This is pretty what Christians belive, or something simaler, so, um, yeah.
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i am TOTALLY athiest.
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aeiou – *pie*
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born:presbetrian
rasied:congergational
in june I’ll be: united chuch of christ(ucc)
the last one is basicly the same as the second one
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i was raised… nothing. well, i celebrated christmas and Hanuka and all that. passover too. and like easter. but as for life after death, and teh exsistance of god, my parents never told me anything. when asked what they believed, the were like, no life life after death, no god. but much more eloquently. lawl.
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73. Religion helps people who don’t like living with the unknown (esp. death), live with it more easily.
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72- that’s cool, I think I posted something about our organic+kosher+spelt motza that we produce???
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44-Let me tell you something. GBS =/= absolute truth. Way dramatized. And anti-Semitic. Also, Joan of Arc is creepy. Note: she was FRENCH. An Asian would have had betel nut with lime and areca leaf to chew, a Russian would have been killed, and no one else had quite the society needed. If voices start talking to you about what a shame it is that people are buying up those houses on the Dordogne, and how about kicking Peter Mayle out of Provence, you KNOW something’s wrong. Really wrong.
77-How do you get ‘born’ something else?
My parents and I never talk about religion. My father is a rabbi of the Universal FreeLife Church, a factoid I found out yesterday, but other than that–no. Has anyone read Robert Heinlein’s monumental work Stranger In A Strange Land? If so, do you grok God?
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71: *Tries to sum it up* Rituals usually include casting a magic circle (9x9ft), lighting (quite a few) candles, and praying. There are some rituals where a magic circle isn’t necessary, but I’ve never tried one of those.
Some Wiccans (most) also practice spellwork…I’ve tried a few spells, and some of them have actually worked surprisingly well! Hm, what else…You can pretty much use magic hvr you want (although there’s no guarantee that it will work), as long as 1) You ask permission to do the spellwork, if you are casting it on another person, and 2) Your spellwork is not intended to harm or manipulate anyone.
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82) who do you pray to?
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I am a devoted follower of unthinkology (lol). REad Pearls before Swine.
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73-I don’t…but, as M#5 said, it makes it easier some people to cope with death. I’ll add to that, and say that it also gives some people a sense of security…you know, a dependable constant.
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84: Not in my town’s newspaper.
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74. You know practically all other religions besides Christianity also tell you that they are the only way to truth and life…
and many have holy texts, etc that are so interesting, so, just, TRUE…
Believe in what you like, if christianity floats your boat, cool, but you cant prove one belief over another because they basically all are exactly that, beliefs!
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davidude: do you have a sister named laura? I think you might be my cousin.
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83: Since Wiccans believe that a God and Goddess are the Co-Creators of everything, we usually just pray to them. I’ve heard that you can choose a pantheon of gods/goddesses to worship (Nordic, Greek, Egyptian, etc), but I don’t really understand how that works.
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79 – knowing that there’s no life after death gives me an incentive to live my life fully. for example, some days i wake up and say to myself, “i’m going to die today.” those days are when i have the most fun, live my life to total satisfaction, and crawl into bed thinking how glad i was that i didn’t die and that i at least have one more day to do the things i want to do.
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86- how dare they! Pearls Before Swine is the best comic ever!
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73- I was born into it, and raised into it by my parents. BUT, I hope I would be a religious person anyway. Believing in God gives me something to believe in, some incentive to understand what I’m doing here. And I’ll admit, it makes me feel safer. It’s something I need in my life.
74- I would agree about Jesus, but I’m not so sure I feel that way about the bible. Don’t get me wrong- I think it’s a wonderful book, and well worth studying, but I believe more in the living presence of God. kind of a Quaker ‘thing’. *backs away before she gets too controversial*
Oh yeah, and I don’t know anything about Pi (forgive me!) but what davidude said is true. ‘at least two of them state they are the only true religion’ that would be Christianity and Judaism, right? heheh. Very demurely put. I prefer not to think of my religion as the only ‘true’ one. For me, Jesus is the easy path to God. Just me personally. *backs away again* There is a proverb I’ve heard about that says that there are many paths up a mountain, and some are rockier than others, but the only people who are wasting their time are those who run around telling everyone else that they’re wrong. I think it might be Hindi.
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82- what kind of spells do you do??? like, what do they do?
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88 – Hmm… *goes and checks birth certificate archives* Nope. Know of no sister with that name. Guess you’re not my cousin
91 – I understand that in Pearls before Swine there is a group of dumb alligators who triy to eat their neighbors and injure each other so each individual will have more to eat, a psycho rat who made a bunch of clones and then tried to kill them, and an infantry duck who blows up anyone who he doesn’t like with his handy-dandy machine gun or cannon or atomic bomb or whatever. My newspaper probably thinks that’s a teense innapropriate for a family newspaper.
Pearls before Swine is a funny comic strip, but I guess it’s not acceptable to The [censored] Daily Journal.
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I’m an Orthodox Christian. For those who don’t know about it, we are original Christianity (sounds like an ice cream flavor, lol, wonder what it would taste like), how it was before some people decided they wanted to have a Pope above them and became the Catholics. To answer post 73, I think it was, or whoever it was that asked about this stuff, I was baptized when I was about a month old.
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amazing. we’ve gone through this whole thread without a religions list.
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I’ll do one. Let’s see…
Let me know if you’re not on the list, etc…
Muslim
FantasyFan
Jewish
Copper Bigfoot
Phoenix
Kiki The Great
Jessie
Brave Sir Robin
Zyviva, Sphinx
elassë~adael
Quintessentia
groundhog22
Anata~ChinTsu
FairyDragon
Lizzie
Julieb
yellowsharpiemarker
Lutheran
Queen-o-random
Catholic
Ebeth
American Orthodox
Sunrunner Bramblewood
Hindu
♥ shriya siolashrwa jeffica ♥
Buddhist
100% cotton
Mormon (LDS)
Skwerl Overlord
Veralidaine
Zyka
Quaker
Purple Panda
Zallie
Taiwan Hippo Fan
elassë~adael
Red Tailed Hawk
Orthodox Christian
Dot Keet
Christian
MontgomeryGurl
Ninja For Christ
Eccentric the Afterthought
Kagcomix
Agnostic
Sweet Melpomene
curious and questioning
SupremeMuser2000
Lady Visala of Reverie
Atheist
Queenie J
Skipper Nancy
Darth Yoda
Lizzie
penguini
Yup
Bobbyjkl
First Sorceress
Shadowkat
curious and questioning
Potato Chip
Wiccan
emogrl
FairyDragon
Protestant
book_addict
VanZepplin
Otzi
Mixed Bag of Random Beliefs
Pentatonikk
Gwendolyn of the Eastern Seas
Otzi
Axa
elassë~adael
curious and questioning
Musketeer Number 5
Sweet Melpomene
Druid Reconstructionist
Millie
Spiritual Athiest
The Bev
Harmony with short red hair
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM)
Necromancer
First sorceress
dark duke of darkness
Radical Athiest
SoulForged
Queenie J
Asatruar
Frigid Symphony
Green Cow
curious and questioning
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A few Quakers. How long did it take you to look back and write all of that up???????? 
The HAWK
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Could you add me to the Christian list? also, shouldn’t the Protestant/Catholic/Quaker/Orthodox Christian lists be sub titles?
How does anyone else feel about that? I’m Protestant/Catholic, but don’t really like to see so many people who all believe in the same god angry at eachother. Can’t understand the whole muslim divide. FantasyFan?
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98 (Red-tailed HAWK) – Actually, to make that list, I just copied e~a’s list from the previous religion thread and edited it a little bit. But for this one (below), I actually went back through all the religion threads and divided each religion even more (ex. Judiasm into Reform, Conservative, etc), and added more people.
99 (cHill) – thanks for the idea! I hope this sub-title thing works, I’m not exactly sure if it will be easy to follow.
But anyway, here’s the updated version:
Muslim
FantasyFan?!?!
Jewish
Sphinx
elassë~adael
Quintessentia
groundhog22
hypermoocow
ha
FairyDragon
Reform
yellowsharpiemarker
Julieb
Reconstructionist
Kiki The Great
Anata~ChinTsu
Conservative
Copper Bigfoot
Brave Sir Robin
Zyviva
Orthodox
Phoenix
Jessie
Jewish Atheist
Lizzie
emmatheduck
Christian
cHill
MontgomeryGurl
Ninja For Christ
Eccentric the Afterthought
Kagcomix
Lutheran
Queen-o-random
Capricious
Catholic
Ebeth
Davidude
Piggy the Proud Catholic
American Orthodox
Sunrunner Bramblewood
Quaker
Purple Panda
Zallie
Taiwan Hippo Fan
elassë~adael
Red Tailed Hawk
Orthodox Christian
Dot Keet
Protestant
book_addict
VanZepplin
Otzi
Mormon (LDS)
Skwerl Overlord
Veralidaine
Zyka
Hindu
♥ shriya siolashrwa jeffica ♥
Buddhist
100% cotton
Agnostic
Sweet Melpomene
curious and questioning
SupremeMuser2000
Lady Visala of Reverie
Wiccan
emogrl
FairyDragon
Mixed Bag of Random Beliefs
Pentatonikk
Gwendolyn of the Eastern Seas
Otzi
Axa
elassë~adael
curious and questioning
Musketeer Number 5
Sweet Melpomene
Druid Reconstructionist
Millie
Atheist
Skipper Nancy
Darth Yoda
Lizzie
penguini
Yup
Bobbyjkl
First Sorceress
Shadowkat
curious and questioning
Potato Chip
Spiritual Athiest
The Bev
Harmony with short red hair
Radical Athiest
Angel’s Holocaust
Queenie J
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM)
Necromancer
First sorceress
Dark duke of darkness
Asatruar
Frigid Symphony
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100 – I am Catholic. You can put me on the list there. I think Piggy the Proud Catholic is also Catholic.
[I’ve added the two of you to Purple Panda’s list, and added Capricious as a Lutheran. –Robert]
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99 (cHILL) – >doesn’t understand the Muslim divide.
~~~
A caliph is the head of the Islamic church. Muhammud was the first caliph of Islam. After he died, Abu Bakr, his father-in-law, became the second Caliph. Umar, a friend of Muhammud, became the third. Uthman, a cousin, became the fourth. Then there was trouble.
Ali, Mohammud’s son-in-law, wanted to be the next caliph. But so did another person. Thus the Muslims were split. The Sunni Muslims supported that other person, and the Shiite Muslims supported Ali. The Shiites belived that only direct descendants of Mohammud could be caliph, but the Sunni Muslims belived anyone could be caliph as long as they were appointed and an extremely good Muslim.
~~~
My apologies if there are any inaccuracies in this bit of Islam history. I learned this in Social Studies class (and you thought there was seperation of Church and State!)
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My mom is Protestant and my dad is Catholic, but I’m Catholic because my dad won the infamous argument a long time ago.
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102- They can teach you about religion, as lond as they do it unbiasedly and don’t try to force beliefs on you, i.e. they can teach about religion only if they teach about all [major] religions and don’t preach. We had a whole religion unit in 6th grade social studies.
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Hmm…in just two days, Fridgey will be back
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100: wow, nice! I think it’s easy to follow. It’s more like an outline now; if the blog allowed it you could indent the subtitles. I’m wondering, what’s the difference between American Orthodox and Orthodox? I guess I should have labeled myself as Eastern Orthodox; that’s what it’s technically called. If Sunrunner Bramblewood agreed, we could just make an “Eastern Orthodox” category under “Christian”.
102: That’s interesting. I know a few Muslims, I wonder which they are. And I think it’s fine to teach about religion in school, as long as you’re teaching from the standpoint of “This is what these people believe” and not “This is what you should believe”.
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104 – I kinda already knew that, but thanks for clarifying it!
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100-how come te jewish atheists go under jewish, but not under atheist?
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I’m Methodist, if i might be added to the list. Thanks.
What is distinctive about Quakers?
All I know is the childrens game “Quaker meeting has bbegun. No talking, laughing, chewing bubblegum, or showing the whites of your teeth.”
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thanx, Purple Panda.
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105- If he’s not to po’d to come back.
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111-True, but I think he’ll probably come back, if not just to vent…preferably without any bad language, or he’ll probably get kicked off again, this time for two weeks.
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FRIDGY WILL BE BACK IN APPROXIMATELY 19 HOURS. This has been a public service announcement. Thank you for your time.
109-Well, some of them (the ones at my meeting) believe in silent worship, except for when you are “moved by the spirit” to speek. Most I think believe in peace, and they didn’t believe in slavery. In fact, they helped many slaves escape. They like nature, and most believe in simplicity. I don’t want to tell the whole story; I’ll let the others fill in. 
The HAWK
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you mean, fridgy will be able to post in 19 hrs. that doesn’t mean he will post.
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100- I’m a Quaker, if you’d care to add me. Thanks!
and 109- Quakers (or ‘Friends’, as we are officially known) Are somewhat hard to explain, as we don’t have a set creed. I would say we believe in spiritual guidance. The Bible varies in importance. Jesus varies in importance. Most Quakers uphold the peace testimony, and the belief that all are equal in the eyes of God. Many Quakers worship in silent meetings, where Friends speak when they feel led to. These spoken ministries are called messages. On the other hand, some meetings are ‘programmed’, meaning that they have a paid minister.
Nowadays, Quakers have a loose, but understood system. Early Quakers dressed in plain gray garb and wore unadorned bonnets (most still believe in simplicity, and many are vegetarians). They also used the terms ‘thee’ and ‘thou’ when speaking to everyone, becaus eat the time ‘you’ was used to address those of high rank.
modern day Quakers usually take an active interest in world affairs.
I hope this helped!
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114-Well, yes. I imagine he has been reading the posts, and maybe formulating his responses on word documents which he could paste into posts. That way he would be all caught up on everything. Maybe. He might say if/when he returns.
The HAWK
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Whoa! I haven’t been on this thread much recently and I just read back to the part where FS was banned. i’m surprised and I don’t really like the idea of banning MBers in general, but really I think he deserved it. I’ve always thought he insults people and things way too much. I hope that this will teach him and he’ll be nicer when he comes back.
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Well, guys, if he is reading these posts, you’re probably not helping him cool down…sheesh…Fridgey, if you’re reading this, please don’t get too mad, ok? Gosh, I feel like we’re talking behind his back like a bunch of gossiping middle-school girls…ugh.
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I bet he’s mad, but nobody’s seen his anger because he can’t post.
I think this is only the 2nd time someones been banned, am I right?
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Can you add me to the list under Aethiest? Also, what’s The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
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Post 118 just got moderated, I didn’t see it before I posted… yeah, I feel that this topic is extremely uncomfterable to talk about.
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118-who cares about helping him cool down? this way hell see that there are others besides the GAPAs who think he deserved it. And anyway, I AM a middle school girl. a lot of us probably are. And it’s not behind his back. when i wrote my post, I was perfectly aware of the fact that FS would probably read it. As I said, I WANT him to know what I think.
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122 – I know, but the humiliation of being banned is pretty strong. And then to have everyone on MuseBlog talk about it…well, his reputation is scarred for a very long time. He got banned, he got humilliated, it’s done. Don’t bring it up when he comes back. Let’s all be nice to Fridgey even if he isn’t the same back.
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Maybe there should be a law for this thread when FS returns. We can’t say another person is wrong, or a religion is bad. We can say we disagree with someone’s beliefs/religion, and state why calmly and non-antagonistically. We can say what we believe and why. That sounds like a peaceful way to continue this thread.
My views on religion:
My mother was raised Jewish and my father was raised Catholic Christian, so I was put in both CCD and Hebrew school when I was young, to decide what I believed when I was older. As a result of this, I have become disillusioned from both religions. I dislike being told that we have to marry someone else who’s Jewish to continue the tribes. I dislike being told that all birth control is wrong, even when it could save lives. I personally disagree with many other aspects of both that I won’t go into now. I believe that Green Cow is a way to express my low opinion of religions that force you to do things. I prefer it to pastafarianism because I heard of it first, and because I can change the rules of Green Cow to suit my tastes. Really, I don’t know whether there is a god or not, and my opinion varies depending on what people around me think and what it’s convenient to do. Church and synagogue make me uncomfortable. I don’t like it being expected that I believe stuff.
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123-He must be reading these anyway. So if he knows we all dcidedd to be nice to him like that, it won’t really help. But anyway, maybe he’ll be nicer now. which would definitely be a good thing.
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Woa, why are we insulting Fridgy? Sure, he became a little out of hand, but sometimes people like that are really just feeling sad about other things. Lets not be too harsh, or it defeats the point of banning him. *sigh*
The HAWK
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122 – Yeah, but this is just the kind of thing we don’t want at MuseBlog. If you don’t like someone, you don’t use their banning as a way to say, “I don’t like you!” I don’t think we should be talking about FS this way. He’s a muser, too.
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126, 127-sorry. I guess I got a little carried away too. It’s true that I don’t particularly like FS, but i guess I should be nicer. Sorry fridgy, if you’re reading this!
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My Changes to Da List o’ Religions
Necromancer and First Sorceress are the same people!
I was once called Bellatrix Lestrange – a few names after that were Sorceress of the Northern Darkness and:
First Sorceress of Her Majesty Queen of the Universe
yah, kind of long. Finally, I found Necromancer.
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100- I’m presbyterian (christian) if you could add me to the list
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90-eep. that’s scary. knowing theres no life after death scares the @#$% out of me.
120- may i?
its wikipedia! what could be less harmless?
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131-MuseFanPage
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Can I post…?
Well, here I am back again… I’ve read through all the posts, and I have to say, banning me did nothing helpful whatsoever. It didn’t convince me that I was wrong, that I deserved it… In fact, I laughed. How come I get banned for insulting someone who took a jab at me out of ignorance, but when someone else says she wants me to burn in hell, nothing happens? “Oh my gawd, I’m a name caller, but you must be tolerant of our dogma!” What the hell? I could have at least been warned, and someone might have figured out why I was so pissed that day. I laughed long and hard. “We can’t deal with his sharp criticisms, so lets ban him to show how careful we are of keeping name calling to a zero, even when many bloggers support a religion and organization that is against homosexuals.
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davidude is the only unbigoted poster here! fridgey, i understand you completely(i think). what the heck did they think banning you would accomplish anyway?! giving you time to come up with witty ramarks against them so they would just have to keep banning you? insulting people as a retort is okay by me(i am verrrryyy sadistic /sarcastic/mean to people who i dislike).
i am a baptist christian. i was brought up in the church but not to be a warmonger to every other religion(go read my profile).
oh yeah, interesting fact: the term “seperation of church and state” was coined by Thomas Jefferson(an atheist) in reply to a church who asked, after he was elected, what his take on religion and america was. and get this…it was written 18 years after the constitution was signed!
the first amemdment in the Bill of Rights states that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof” that means that religion is not forbidden in all government exercises, it just has to not be resticted or promoted. the gov’t has to be neutral: we on MB should be neutral also!
fridgey, i am a christian and follow the bible. the bible states that we should not practice homosexuality. it does not say “kill all the homosexuals and purge the world of the the non-beleivers!” i try to practice toleration but not at the expense of compromising my beleifs.
Baptists are just christians who beleive that we should follow jesus in all that we do. he was baptized and so we follow in his footsteps by getting babtized, but it is not a salvation factor(you won’tgo to hell just cause you haven’t been held underwater by a preacher!)
oh yeah, about following jesus. he also hung out with some pretty lowlife characters and practiced toleration. he did not force his beleifs on anyone(or not that i have heard of). so i try to do the same.
well, anyway, i don’t really care if anyone does not follow my religion, but i do(and enjoy doing it).
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Um, Fridgy, er. I’m not sure how to comment. When I first started reading your post, it seemed OK. Then, a little strange. You finally get to come back, and then you spoil it. I was going to say “welcome back” and maybe request a thread or something, but now I don’t know. Have you seen the panda’s post yet? I think many people feel that way. Including me. I would hate to have to leave Mblog entirely, but it doesn’t seem like a nice, friendly place like when I came. Hopefully this can all be resolved before anybody else leaves.
*sighs* *hopes for the best* *wishes this wasn’t happening*
The Concerned HAWK 
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135-Man, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen this…a group or forum gets going really well, and all of a sudden something goes wrong and everything starts to collapse.
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133- You’re back! (way to state the obvious)
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how come everyone is commenting on how fridgey is back and not getting on the actual subject? RELIGION! i have this quote wich is really random that i piked up in like a philosophy class and it is really cool but stupid. ready? “Culture is religion externalized”. does that mean the religionn in america is some sort of dress code? hahhahhah
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Purple Panda, or whoever is doing the lists, put me down as a follower of The Church of the FSM. i converted today while debating with my friends about religion. BTW, does anyone know where i can get a copy of the Gospel of the FSM? it’d be an interesting read.
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(138),
I think it means that what you believe affects the way you live. So by looking at how a large group of people live their lives — how they spend their time, what they celebrate, what they eat, what they build, what kind of art they make, how they treat one another — you can tell a lot about what they believe. It might even be a better way of finding out than what they tell you they believe when you ask them.
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133-I agree with some of that, but not all. Some people were not very nice, but you were the only one who was actually directly insulting people. Saying you don’t agree with someone isn’t nearly as bad as calling them an idiot. I still say you deserved it, to a certain extent at least, though I guess I was wrong in hoping it might make you nicer. some people never learn.
135, 136-COME ON YOU GUYS! that is such an overreaction. One person getting banned for the week does not necessarily mean MB is going to collapse.
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Here’s an updated list of the Religions.
Muslim
FantasyFan?!?!
Jewish
Sphinx
elassë~adael
Quintessentia
groundhog22
hypermoocow
ha
FairyDragon
Reform
yellowsharpiemarker
Julieb
Reconstructionist
Kiki The Great
Anata~ChinTsu
Conservative
Copper Bigfoot
Brave Sir Robin
Zyviva
Orthodox
Phoenix
Jessie
Jewish Athiest
Lizzie
emmatheduck
Christian
cHill
MontgomeryGurl
Ninja For Christ
Eccentric the Afterthought
Kagcomix
Lutheran
Queen-o-random
Capricious
Catholic
Ebeth
davidude
Piggy the Proud Catholic
American Orthodox
Sunrunner Bramblewood
Quaker
Purple Panda
Zallie
Taiwan Hippo Fan
elassë~adael
Red Tailed HAWK
Liesolotte
Orthodox Christian
Dot Keet
Protestant
book_addict
VanZepplin
Otzi
Mormon (LDS)
Skwerl Overlord
Veralidaine
Zyka
Methodist
grnqween2011
Presbyterian
Elizabeth
Baptist
jammin j
Hindu
♥ shriya siolashrwa jeffica ♥
Buddhist
100% cotton
Agnostic
Sweet Melpomene
curious and questioning
SupremeMuser2000
Lady Visala of Reverie
Wiccan
emogrl
FairyDragon
Mixed Bag of Random Beliefs
Pentatonikk
Gwendolyn of the Eastern Seas
Otzi
Axa
elassë~adael
curious and questioning
Musketeer Number 5
Sweet Melpomene
Druid Reconstructionist
Millie
Atheist
Skipper Nancy
Darth Yoda
Lizzie
penguini
Yup
Bobbyjkl
First Sorceress
Shadowkat
curious and questioning
Potato Chip
Cat’s Meow
Spiritual Athiest
The Bev
Harmony with short red hair
Radical Athiest
Angel’s Holocaust
Queenie J
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM)
Necromancer
Dark duke of darkness
Majora’s Wrath
Asatruar
Frigid Symphony
Green Cow
curious and questioning
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142- thanks, that must take a while to figure out all the new people and everything
133-if you look back, your posts 17 and 19 were pretty mean, but I’m not going to go on about this, we should all forget about it and talk about religions.
Fantasy Fan!?!?- can you tell us about how you worship as a Muslim??? are you very strict in your religion? do you get discriminated against or anything for being muslim?? do you have a lot of muslim friends?
agnostic people:what exactly does agnostic mean? I always thought it was the same as athiest
and Jewish people: how do you worship? do you go to temple? what’s a temple like?
wow, lots of questions this time…
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143-I think agnostic means that you don’t know whether or not there’s a god, while atheist means you think there isn’t.
And Lizzie is on the list twice, once as Atheist and once as Jewish Atheists. I think the Jewish Atheists should probably go under the Atheist category instead of (or perhaps as well as?) the Jewish.
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Isn’t agnostic where you believe in a higher power, you just don’t know what it is or worship it? And athiest is no god whatsoever? Is that right?
So if you are Quaker then you are Christian? And it’s not like amish with no electricity, but is it no extravagent stuff? Is temple like church? and is a mosque(sp?) like church? I’m slightly clueless. Sorry.
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143-heh no.
agnosticism.
is if one does not know if any gods or deities exist, and thinks that there is know way of knowing that. usually agnostics think that god or gods probably do not exist.
145-eeh nope. atheist is no gods or deities. yep.
and for teh other two questions, i dont feel like answering. mebbe someone else will answer, otherwise, wikipedia is extremely helpful.
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(sorry for double post)
as for my real beliefs. i like what this guy says.
“If a man has failed to find any good reason for believing that there is a God, it is perfectly natural and rational that he should not believe that there is a God; and if so, he is an atheist… if he goes farther, and, after an investigation into the nature and reach of human knowledge, ending in the conclusion that the existence of God is incapable of proof, cease to believe in it on the ground that he cannot know it to be true, he is an agnostic and also an atheist – an agnostic-atheist – an atheist because an agnostic… while, then, it is erroneous to identify agnosticism and atheism, it is equally erroneous so to separate them as if the one were exclusive of the other…”
course not gender specific. that part i dont like.
so i suppose im an agnostic atheist. but leave me on there as a pastafarian.
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I think that if an athiest went to hell he would change his belief simple as that. I don’t want to go to hell.
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Random question: Okay, so there are quite a few Jewish bloggers here. Could you tell me about the Jewish culture? I don’t know much about it, but it really does sound interesting. Thanks in advance?
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148-yes, if i went to hell that would be proof that my atheist beliefs are wrong.
149-aaaah! too broad a questio! don’t know where to start! I do best with specific qustions. when asked someting like that my brain just freezes. If you make it more specific, i might try to answer.
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What’s a Jewish atheist? Is it that your family practices Jewish stuff and you join them, but you personally agree with atheism? Is it keeping Kosher and stuff without believing in a God? Did someone already answer this question?
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151-actually, my whole famly is Jewish atheist, and we are extremely unobservant so we don’t keep kosher or anything. i’m Jewish culturally though, since all my ancestors have been Jewish and it really is a culture as well as a religion.
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Oh, sorry…I didn’t know exactly where to start…prattle on, I’ll read…? ^^;
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Um, yes Quakers are Christian, but some not as strongly as others. That is actually a sort of debate among us, how Christian are we, and what exactly defines Quakers. In my First Day School class, we are looking at other religions to find how we are similar and how we are differrent to other religions.
I think a fair thing to say is that most Quakers believe in PESO (peace, environment, simplicity, and openness to others.) Am I right? 
The HAWK
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154 – we do the same thing! (look at other religions, etc.) we even went to different places of worship (mosques, etc.) to learn about the religion.
Yep, PESO for us too.
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143- Having visited my friend’s church, I can give you a simple, one-person synogogue vs. church synopsis. They’re almost exactly the same, only synogogue is in hebrew. Swap prayer books(sorry, don’t know if there is another name) for siddurs, add a little bit more shuffling to stand up and sit down, and a different costume for the person standing up front. Oh, and you’re gonna need a large “ark” to hold some large torah scrolls, and there you go. Yes, thats extremely simplified. I’ve also been to a mosque, but not during an actual service so I’m going to let someone else answer that.
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143- Having visited my friend’s church, I can give you a simple, one-person synogogue vs. church synopsis. They’re almost exactly the same, only synogogue is in hebrew. Swap prayer books(sorry, don’t know if there is another name) for siddurs, add a little bit more shuffling to stand up and sit down, and a different costume for the person standing up front. Oh, and you’re gonna need a large “ark” to hold some large torah scrolls, and there you go. Yes, that’s extremely simplified. I’ve also been to a mosque, but not during an actual service so I’m going to let someone else answer that.
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156, 157-what was the point in posting that twice? I would have thouught you just accidentally pressed submit twice, but then why would there be an apostrophe in the second one that’s missing in the first?
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158- You noticed an apostrophe, impressive. I tried to fix it (yes, i’m like that) before it got posted, but it didn’t work and was accidently posted twice. Sorry.
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159-Yes, I’m like that too. That’s why I noticed.
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148-i actually agree with you on that! unfortunately, i cant agree with you on the (implied) fact that you think that atheists are going to hell. simply because hell doesn’t exist. at risk of offending you, its just something your parents, or someone else braiwashed you to think. its not hard, you know. hell is a very scary concept, cause they made it that way to scare you. so believe in god or go to hell. and obey the bible (which is probably a good thing, in most cases) or go to hell. its an excellent deterrent for criminals.
158-lawl. i cant even find the difference between the two of them, even when im looking for an apostrophe. and i dont use apostrophes when typing on the internet, because its too much work, and people understand what i mean.
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133 – Um…huh?
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160- Now I want to go back and capitalize my i in I’m. Uhg, this belongs on the pet peeves/ march incredible morphing chameleon thread.
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161-I hate it when people omit punctuation, even on the internet. I just don’t usually say anything because no one else seems to care and I don’t want to be too obnoxious.
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155-Woa, we are too. We went to a Mosque, and a United Methodist church, and we are going to a Unitarian Church this month. Where are you going this month?
The HAWK
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I’m Pagan. : ) I’ve gone to several churches, though.
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The bible does actually say that if men have sex, they should be stoned (in the old testament, somewhere). Now, if you’re a christian and the bible is your holy book…
To all christians, what are your views on homosexuality?
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You’ve been over this before. To avoid repetition, I’ll just restate what Musers have said in previous iterations of this thread. Most Christians believe that much of the Jewish law described in the Old Testament became outdated when Jesus came along. They have a wide range of opinions about homosexuality. Jesus himself didn’t say anything about it. Those who object to it on scriptural grounds cite three passages from letters by his followers, later incorporated into their New Testament. You can find out about them here:
https://musefanpage.com/blog/?p=710
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168: I’m not attacking people personally, I’m attacking the religion as a whole. If Christianity has the Bible as holy book, and the old testament is part of the bible, then the old testament and all that is in it is part of Christianity.
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Yes, and Christians on the blog have told you that you’re wrong about that, and no doubt will say so again.
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Interpretations of Christianity may vary, but if Christianity as a religion holds the Bible as holy book, then that too is part of Christianity. Every so called Christian is welcome to his or her interpretation, but I fight against Christianity as a whole, as a matter of principle. And now I’m going to bed.
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In this case, though, you’re not fighting against Christianity as a whole, but against one specific version of it: yours. You’re disagreeing not with what anyone has said, but with what you say they say. That’s a debating tactic called the “straw man” fallacy. It’s like boxing with a scarecrow. It’s easy to knock over something that you’ve built to be knocked over.
I guess the broader question here is whether other MBers want this thread to be a boxing ring. Maybe we need a separate thread to discuss that.
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167-172- FS, it is becoming rather pointless to argue with you because you refuse to listen to anyone else. You are indeed arguing that your version of christianity is wrong and not realizing that christianity is a different thing to many different people.
I believe in a spirit of sorts but don’t exactly follow any religion. I may convert to judaism in the future and I’ve practiced Christian and Jewish traditions.
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to anyone who doubts the FSM religion, then please go 2 http://www.wikipedia.org and type in Russel’s Teapot. or IPU. or FSM.
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fs please pe positive!
(pessimists are taking over the world)
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hey frigid, you might want to go easy on the christians. if my friends’ predictions for the future come true, they are going to take over the world and force all the non-christians to slave away in factories making cross necklaces and bibles and such. 
no offense to any christians out there. its just that the christians i know at school are REALLY ANNOYING
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166: What type of Pagan are you (I’m also Pagan, in case you haven’t looked at that list yet)?
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FS, you’re really getting obnoxious here. As e~a said, there’s no point in arguing if you won’t even listen to people.
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168-172 – Interesting. I havn’t seen this sort of thing! It’s almost like a chatroom.
Now onto seriousness.
167 – I, um, am sort of opposed to it, but I don’t see how homosexuality would even work. It doesn’t make sense.
169 – You may not be attacking the people personally [now], but you’re attacking a very important part of our lives.
172 – Exactly. He’s basically taking small parts of Christianity that are controversial and blowing them out of porportion.
It’s really getting old, so I’m gonna stop arguing now.
~~~
165 – You went to all those worship places in one month? Do you follow more than one religion?
176 – That would be and interesting world.
161 – “its an excellent deterrent for criminals.” What do you mean?
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179- What do you mean, you don’t see how homosexuality would even work? And by “it’s an excellent deterrent for criminals” DDoD probably meant that the fear of eternal damnation would prevent people from doing criminal things.
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180 — well, it hasn’t worked so far . . .
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Just read an article by Gwynne Dryer…
Turns out countries in which a higher percent of the population identify themselves as very religious have heigher crime rates (both serious and petty), higher teen pregancy rates, higher proverty rates than the countries that had lower percents of their population identifying themselves as very religious. I think he said very religious as worshipping regularly and/or believing strongly…
He said the studies thought that religous people thought that god/higher being would take care of everything so they did less to take care of it themselves plus felt less compeled to take care of those of differing relgions…
FYI the US is about the only “developed” country in which the majority of the population identifies themselves as highly religious…
I’m thinking it’s time to move to Canada….
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180 – (sorry if I’m risque here) You could think of the male and female as two puzzle peices. When you put them together, they fit (so to speak). But when you take two of the same puzzle peice, they don’t fit. You see what I’m saying?
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181- I never said it would work, I just suggested thats what DDoD meant.
183- Ok, here’s risque[read as lewd, because there’s really no other way to explain this] for you- Try a different hole.
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I think that’s as far as this particular discussion can profitably go.
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184 (and others)- wandering away from that bit of the topic, I think it’s an interesting reason for objection. You don’t really moraly object but don’t understand it? or am I wrong? just curious and enjoying learning about everyone’s views! ^_^
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I fight against a religion that while admittedly does have many positive qualities, embodies human hatred in dogmatic teaching. Christianity was historically an extremely violent religion, killing pagans everywhere they went, and even though it has cooled down a lot in modern times, there is still everlasting hypocrisy and corruption. Spirituality does not need an organized body that acts as a capitalist complex to function, spirituality is personal intercourse with your divinity. I find the existence of a power, political in past and poltical in present, masquerading as ‘spiritual guidance’ morally offensive and unethical.
177: Asatru, norse pantheon.
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(187) A question for you, FS — and it’s a serious one, not rhetorical — how do you perceive the fight itself? For instance, do you wish to convince others, let off steam, or something else?
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188: First of all, by making my opinions heard, and to stand for them. Second, by doing what I can in my own community to promote anti-organized religion, I argue with priests, I argue with colleagues, with teachers… Although the priests have learned to pretend they don’t see me. And occasionally yes, I do get so frustrated with this decrepit and suffering world and with the stupidity of it’s people that I really need to let off steam (which resulted in me being banned for a week).
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Hey, don’t leave me here with no one to debate with! Come on! It’s late over here and I’ll be going soon!
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190 – meh? you wanna debate about the FSM?
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184 – Okay, that is sick, that’s really sick. (I mean sick as in gross and messed up, not “cool” or “tight”.)
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189 – Well, don’t let off your steam on an innocent MuseBlogger, please.
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182 — why settle for canada? i’m moving straight to europe, baby!
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i think i agree with frigidsymphony on the violent-organized-religion thing. it’s not that i’m against the thought of a “higher power” or whatever, i just can’t help but look at history and see that organized religion has caused an incredible amount of violence. i think everyone should be free to explore spirituality without feeling pressured to do so in a specific way.
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195 – That’s what the United States of America is for!
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what, causing violence?
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196-Well, yeah, but even here in the United States people are still stereotyped. In my area kids sterotype by race A LOT. For example, we have Japanese exchange students at our school for a week and everybody’s making the “Ching chang chong” and “squinty eyes” kind of jokes, which aren’t even funny in my mind. Also, a lot of people insult Mexicans too. I went to a school where most of the kids were from Mexico for 5 years, and they were just like american kids, except for the language they spoke. I moved, and a lot of people here stereotype against them. So, even in the US, it’s not perfect.
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175-Invisible machines of Murphy. How does positive falseness help?
182-It’s always time to move to Canada.
183-You have a very–um, linear way of thinking about things. What about people as round rubber balls? Or marbles? Tanagrams, then. That can be combined in many ways to make many shapes.
198-What is it with this “Even in the US” crap? We Canadians constitute the perfect society. Not you. Come on. Work it out.
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Looks like we’re up to about 200 posts. Why don’t we give this topic a rest? Just let people calm down from all of the anger of late.
The Full HAWK
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199-All I was doing is responding to davidude’s post, “That’s what the United States of America is for!”. I was stating my opinion that the United States of America isn’t perfect in terms of toleration, religious or otherwise.
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200-That sounds like a smart idea to me.
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189: It annoys me when people single-handedly think they can change the world by TALKING. Whatever happened to ACTION? And just for a fun comparison, look at what you’re spending your time on. It’s highly unlikely you’ll ever convince anyone, especially someone like a priest who has devoted his or her live to serving God. When people constantly spew their opinion, everyone else tends to stop listening. There are people at my school, from the far reaches of both ends of the spectrum, with whom it is IMPOSSIBLE to have a conversation without them trying to convert you to their personal beliefs or views. And we have all learned to ignore these people. Radicals are never good at the art of persuasion.
199 & 184: ew. That is so immoral I don’t know where to begin. Maybe I’ll comment on this later, but I can’t think of a good way to say what I think.
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whoops. I said “And just for a fun comparison” but then never compared anything. I was going to bring up this point: Based on my own experiences, a majority ofatheists seem to spend an unproportional amount of time trying to convince others that they are wrong, which is basically a waste of time. On the other hand, a majority of the religious people I know are very involved at their place of worship and spend a great deal of time making the world a better place, through volunteer work, mission trips, etc. So before you decide what you want to make happen (I know it’s too late and you already have), look around you at what members of the organization you are protesting are accomplishing.
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203, second comment – I totally agree. I don’t even want to think about all the possible holes 184 could mean…
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I’ve been reading about the church of the FSM on Wikipedia, and I sort of agree with some of it. Definetly the part about the correlation (with the Pirates/Global Warming chart) but not the I Really Rather You Didn’ts quite as much. I’m not converting, but it sounds really interesting.
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204. Missions make the world a better place…marginally, in some very minor way…
They also block the poorest women from getting birthcontrol (while followers of that same religion, living in developed countries use all forms of birth conrtol). This lack of birth control means families have more kids, increasing poverty levels and disempowering women, which hurts the country’s economy and the women themselves. i also think that the poorest of the poor should be given hope in this life time, not just hope of a nice afterlife…
Missions might do some good things but in the long run they do more harm than good. Nonreligious aid organizations help all, without careing if those they help share their same moral values.
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Hmm, I seemed to have caused a bit of a stir. We’ll leave that topic alone for now, but as someone who has homo/bisexual friends I was just wondering what you find so immoral about it? Or does this count as a continuation of the discussion? Maybe it could be moved to the hot topics thread? But surely religion has an impact on most people’s views? Why am I typing in questions?
199- You’re probably right about Canada. Problem is, Canadians are too quiet. Canada is long forgotten in the turmoil of the world. That might be a good thing. This really doesn’t belong on the religions thread.
On a religious note, both Pesach and Easter are coming up. Would somebody explain Easter to me? I just really don’t see how the bunnies come into it.
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The bunnies are commercialism at work. Santa has nothing to do with Christmas either.
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Yeah, but there was a saint nicholas. How did the bunnies start?
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210-I have no idea. I think they are a symbol of spring, or somthing.
FrigidSymphony, I was not insulting your religion! I respect whatever you believe in. I was just defending the religion of others, becuase you kept on insulting it.
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208 – Because it’s just plain gross. And it’s not natural! Humans aren’t made to do that.
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168-172-the bible is what christians believe is gods holy word. the old testament’s rules and regulations define what the jewish nation had to do to obey their god. it may sound legalistic(all the rules and regulations about sin; and homosexuality was counted as sinful and still is) but they beleive and still beleive that god was holy and that a holy god could not behold sin. the only way to get rid of the sin was to obey Gods instructions. in the new testament, Jesus(Gods only Son, who was fully god) came and died on the cross as a living and holy sacrifice. the jews in the old testament sacrificed animals to wash away their sin. when jesus willingly died for us, as a sinless human being (the only sinless human being) his blood covered our sins as the blood of the sacrificed animals in the old testament covered the sin of the old testament jews, but his blood covered the sins of everyone in the world. along with this redemption, God revoked a few of the old testament rules, thus we no longer stone people for committing sin. we still count sins as sins, but the deadly consequences are gone.
this does not mean that christians can commit any sin. we are followers of Christ(Jesus) and so we follow in his example of not committing sin.
we do not now want to kill homosexuals, rather we want to destroy the practice of homosexuality. as you said, Fridgey, you do not fight against christians personally, just the idea as a whole. we do the same with homosexuality.
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What is Pesach? Bunnies have absolutely nothing to do with easter, it’s just spring.
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The rabbit was the symbol of Ostara, nordic goddess of spring. The anglo-saxon name is Eostre. Easter. Get it? Another robbery on behalf of Christianity…
Davidude. See? Exactly. Untolerant to a perfectly viable sexual preference. “Oh my god, they have anal sex, they are immoral beings and must repent or they will burn in hell! Actually, why don’t we just get rid of them, seeing as they cause such a stain on our society?” You are completely intolerant of something that has never caused anyone harm, you are repulsed by it and feel an aversion to it, due to the indoctrination you’ve been subject to. I met a guy on the bus the other day, we ended up talking about religion. He said that “God tells me homosexuality is not Christian, therefore these people are not for God”. What he was saying was that according to his religion, homosexuality was a bad thing, but he didn’t feel repulsed by it. You say humans aren’t made to do that. Are humans made to kill? Are we made to pray? Are we made to do anything besides the basic functions of reproduction and survival? Homosexuality seems to me more human than Christianity, as it is a basic human instinct, that for sexual gratification, that some people seek differently. Is there the Homosexual Liberation Front Army killing heterosexuals? No. They do no wrong, and never have. May I remind you, however, of all the people killed in the name of Jesus and your God??? Pagan purging, Crusades, witch trials, heretic burnings… And may I remind you that a Christian minister, Haggard the Horrible, preached the outright use of violence against homosexuals, while he himself was caught having sex with a MALE prostitute? Your use of the term ‘straight’ to indicate heterosexuality is atrocious, as if it were wrong, not straight, distorted to be homosexual. You and your religion are so wound up in hypocritical bollocks and dogma that it actually causes me to react painfully whenever I see a cross. No joke, I feel pain when I see a cross.
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213: And how are you going to destroy homosexuality as itself? Is it an organization, with a heirarchy and a beaurocracy?
The fundamental difference lies in this: I am trying to bring down a negative organization that has caused countless damage to humanity over the course of history, you are fighting against a harmless lifestyle imposed on you by your dogmatic religion.
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208. i think the bunnies are part commercialization and part a symbol of rebirth since their babies are born in the spring and they are cute and fuzzy….
213. You say practise homosexuality as though it were a CHOISE. Nobody gets up and says I want to be homosexual from now on!! People are born homosexual, most dont realize it until they hit puberty (sometimes later) but it is NOT a concious decision!! Even if it was, they dont hurt you or bother you or anyone else so what gives you the right to try to tell them they are wrong!! That’s just small minded and rude. No religion has the right to even think about regulating what nonbelievers do or think…
I used to put up with nontolerant religions but hearing these views voiced by people, other than by stupid politicians and ministers who dont know any better, is disturbing…
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Wait a minute… Do I seem to be gathering followers? *looks around in shock*
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fridgey-if you can’t attack my religion, why attack my worldview? my worldvies is that homosexuality is wrong. my religion also beleives this. to get me to change my mind(the object of any debate) you must prove to me that my religion is wrong. to do that you must first prove that the bible is fiction. it has been proven by both christians and non-christians to be one of the most reliable documents in the world.
if you claim that christianity has not even remotely benefited the world because of the crusades, murders and torture commited in its name, then i will claim the same for homosexuality. look what it has done. the good part: it has provided many people with a “viable” sexual option. the bad part: it has introduced a terrible disease (AIDS and HIV) that has decimated africa and killed millions. you tell me that homosexuality is just human nature: to reproduce. well if that is true tell me why when a man and a woman get together you get a baby and when a man and a man get together you get a disease?
i say again: debate with my religion, not one aspect of it.
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219: Hang on. While homosexuality does include a risk of STDs, HIV is transmitted both heterosexually and homosexually. The disease evolved from the animal kingdom. Disease like that is transmitted both ways. What were you doing during sex ed?? Homosexuality is NOT the cause of killing millions in Africa, the refusal of the Pope and the act of opposition of the Church to sanction the use of condoms which are the only proven effective and affordable protection for the innocent wives and rape victims!! GAPAs, help me out here, bring the facts to light.
And homosexuality is part of the human urge to seek sexual pleasure, not to reproduce. I know perfectly well that homosexual couples can’t reproduce.
The Bible is a religious text! Not a historical one! I’m pointing out that your opinion on homosexuality as promoted by your religion is intolerant and unacceptable.
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220-so you are blaming the epedemics in africa on the pope and the church? interesting viewpoint. i must point out that 1)i am not a catholic, i do not beleive the pope is infallible and 2)my religion and the catholic religion does not promote the use of condoms and such BECAUSE we don’t believe in sex before marriage and 3) when married you only have sex wiht your spouse and lastly 4)if you can blame a disaster like africa AIDS epidemic on a religious group then you are not thinking completely logically.
oh yes, during sex ed i was covering my ears in fear of hearing the word sex because i am a religious bigot who hates all forms of disagreeable opinions. (ha ha , just kidding)
what my point here is, is that while christianity has had atrocious deeds done sincerely in its name, that does not mean that i am following that type of religion now. i would be disgusted if those types of things were being done today. if you want to find a religion that condemns and tries to destroy every other opinion but thier own, don’t look at mine.
in the 1400’s-the 1500’s the reformation took place, w/ christians of all walks of life denouncing the atrocious deeds the church had committed. they were asking all good christians to follow the bible, and nothing else. that is what i do in my religion.
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i am not a cathlioc either. the condom thing is weird. i seriously hope u were being sarcastic about the sex ed thing
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208- the bunnies are mostly just to sell things for easter, but the idea is that easter represents new life so companies sell baby animal shaped things to show this “new life” theme. Sants claus is german, it is the german equivelent of what we would call saint nicholas, santa being saint and claus being a different form of the name Klaas (my dad’s name) which is the german equivelent of the name nicholas, so santa claus is saint nicholas, which is a story in itself…
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On an entierly different note, I just saw an article in the NY Times about a scholar translating the Koran into English, and finding another translation for the word that FS used to refer to his belief that Islam was sexist. “Daraba” can mean several other things besides to beat, or have sex with.
Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/25/us/25koran.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
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221. The problem with your religion (and others) blocking access to condoms, etc. is,besides FS’ piont about AIDS, that then poor families have way more kids than they can care for. The world becomes over populated and people start to starve…
if these families dont want to use birth control, great, but if they do they can’t. why should your religion and others like it stop everyone in the poorest countries from getting birth control??!!
please dont act like you are doing good by blocking the availability of birth control
218. follower…idk, maybe i’ll start the FS cult or something…lol
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223- Wasn’t the original saint nicholas turkish?
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220-Actually, Jesus Christ and his Apostles, the Desciples(sp?), etc. actually lived…the question is whether or not all those miracles and stuff happened.
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Woooow- this is so cool! A religious thread!
So who confined FrigidSymphony to Hell?
I’m still up for going too- he(she?) reminds me of some friends I have…
Personally am Catholic, think if you look hard enough you can violence in most religions and that ours was just… larger, or is more well known because in this country there are a good deal of Christians.
In any case- who else is Catholic? Not that I don’t want to talk to people of other religions, but just to know?
(Anyone else have Adoration or Perpetual Adoration at their church?)
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Warning: I’m pissed off.
WHAT THE !@#$%^&* HECK!!?? THIS !@#$%^&* DISCUSSION HAS TURNED OUR NICE RELIGIONS THREAD INTO A !@#$%^&* HOT TOPICS THREAD!!!!
Quoting FrigidSymphony…
“May I remind you, however, of all the people killed in the name of Jesus and your God??? Pagan purging, Crusades, witch trials, heretic burnings…”
GET IT THROUGH YOUR !@#$%^&* SKULL THAT THOSE PEOPLE DID NOT GET IT AND MOST CHRISTIANS TODAY ARE NOT PROUD OF THIS AND DO NOT SUPPORT THE THINGS THEY DID!!!! You keep using the same !@#@$%$^&* argument over and over again!
Sorry about that, I was just mad and need to vent.
220 – I’m only in 7th grade and my parents are going to yank me from all the sex ed classes cause they want to teach it to me myself.
All right, I’ve decided it. This is my last post here. I’m leaving this thread. Fridgey, if you want to make a difference, get on a more popular website and preach the evils of christianity there.
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Um, I’m sorry Christian for Christ.
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Christian for Christ-I hear ya, but don’t leave, because how else will you spread the good news to so many people?
evie-I’m catholic, too! we have perpetual adoration at our church.
fridgey-condoms only “protect” against pregnancy, and not all of the time, either. they do not protect you from 99% of STDs. oh, and dissing religions isn’t cool. we all have our own beliefs. jeez.
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FS-what exactly do you have against Catholicism? we need an organized church in the same way our county needs an organized government. it all goes to pieces without it.
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FS-i’m praying for you
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232- How would it all go to pieces without it? Government, yes, we definetly need, but what does the church do that keeps everything from going to pieces?
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231 – Okay, I’ll come back. I’m not so mad now. Post 233 was a good idea.
228 – On the first 2007 religions thread, Kriket made a strong argument in favor of Christianity. FrigidSymphony counter-attacked, pressing her buttons and calling her nasty names until she blew up and said he deserved to go to hell. She apologized, but FrigidSymphony never said sorry for ticking her off in the first place. Then Kriket left MuseBlog for a while.
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231 – Okay, I’ll come back. I’m not so mad now. Post 233 was a good idea.
.
228 – On the first 2007 religions thread, Kriket made a strong argument in favor of Christianity. FrigidSymphony counter-attacked, pressing her buttons and calling her nasty names until she blew up and said he deserved to go to hell. She apologized, but FrigidSymphony never said sorry for ticking her off in the first place. Then Kriket left MuseBlog for a while.
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whoops! Didn’t mean to post that twice!
I was a bit suprised when the name of this thread changed. Sigh… I guess it was inevitable. Religions is a Hot Topic.
Though, in a calmer tone, I’ll say what I feel about this thread.
I came onto MuseBlog because it looked like an awesomely cool place where I could talk to other people who read Muse and have cool discussions about cool things. I did not expect to find people insulting each other, getting banned, cursing eachother’s religion, and suddenly I found myself against a wall, desprately defending my religion against a radical atheist several years older than me on the other side of the world!
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Umm, I’m sorry davidude, but Krickets arguement had a lot of holes. It was pretty easy for fridgy to tear it apart. Not that I don’t think FridgedSymphony doesn’t go too far sometimes, but his arguement was definitely stronger.
228- He.
231- I think you should check your facts.
237- You don’t have to post here if you don’t want too. You are never going to convert Fridgy or even get him to acknowledge your views,face it, religion is an extremely subjective area. And Fridgy is much more likely to make you cry than you make him, that’s just the way he is.
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231 – actually, condoms do protect against the vast majority of STDs quite effectively.
So, FS, I’m not sure I quite understand what you’re saying. You’re saying you’re fighting against the religion itself, but then you’re attacking specific deeds done by certain followers? I don’t know, I guess I’m really asking whether you have an issue with the religion itself or how it’s been interpreted.
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Piggy- Yay! We’re doing Perpetual Adoration. My ma and I commited to being with Him one hour a week. First hour of the Sabbath…
I’m sorry to everyone for what FrigidSymphony’s done, sorry to FS for saying sorry for him, and sorry to everyone again for saying sorry. -.0
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It’s almost Holy Week, the most holy week of the year for Catholics!
240 – What is perpetual Adoration? Wait…I think it’s when you have someone praying in the church at all times, right?
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People are talking about religions again. Maybe we could change the name back…
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I’ve never heard of perpetual adortion…
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229 – I’m really glad that someone actaully came out and said that. Yes, the arguments are out of date. Though I, for one, am perfectly open to other religions, I don’t see why other religions or so unwelcome to us. Eh, FS? You’re living in the past.
235 – Yeah, and Piggy was being a bit harsh to FS. Yes, Christianity is great. I’m a Christian. But I don’t go around trying to convert everyone else. It’s called free will, and that is one of God’s gifts, so we shouldn’t try to take it away from others. Everyone’s allowed to choose what to believe in.
237 – Well, you’re gonna meet people in life like that. And if you mean FS, I think it’s Asatru, not athiest. People can get really aggresive about their religions, and I’m glad you’ve kept calm for most of the time. And if you want to keep nice conversations, stay away from this thread, Your life will most likely be better without it. And yes, some people are more sensitive than others. I’ve actually pretty much perfeted the art of not caring, and use it only on things that need it, not what some random jerk is telling me about what I do, what I’m like, or what I think. (not FS, but somone else I’ve had breif problems with before).
239 – I think he siaid he was against organized religion or something of the sort, and though he has presented many arguments, many of them are outdated. He keeps on talking about destroying in the name of gods, and I can see his point with all of these suicide bombings and all that “great” stuff plastered all over the news.
240 – Yeah, FS has been pretty harsh on some subjects.
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Perpetual Adoration is where the Body is exposed so that we can adore Him 24/7.
Well, that might not be accurate but I’m not very good describing things. It’s Eucharistic Adoration, only it goes on and on.
Anyways, Davie’s explaination is correct because the Sacrament can never be alone… so you have to always have at least one person there at all times…
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And I like daviedude’s suggestion of changing it back, although I was not here before it was what it was to change back to.
…did that come out right?
Oh well. ^^;
Religion gives a better description than Hot Topics, and there’s a worse threat of straying from the topic when it doesn’t have it’s appropriate name…
Or maybe it’s because the name got changed that people are actually talking about religion? 0.o
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Um, I must be a bad person. I intend to discuss God with the senior I like who is agnostic and hope to convince him at least the God is good and true.
^.~ But in all fairness, he challnged me to do it!!
(Saying this since I”ve seen Kiara’s comment)
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245 – Really? I didn’t know you had to have a person there at all times. At my church, there’s always a red candle burning beside the Eucharistic hosts to symbolize that it’s there, but sometimes nobody’s there praying.
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There’s nothing wrong with evangelizing on MuseBlog (or in general). It’s telling them that they need to convert when you start to be a little pushy. People are less likely to convert if you are actively pushing them to do it.
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Is it Adoration?
I’m not sure- I’m not an expert. But the people who have told and explained this to me as I learn say Jesus can’t be left alone… something like that.
…I’m thinking even if it weren’t required anything could happen to the Body while it is exposed so it really shouldn’t be left alone.
(if this double posts I’m sorry, my comp. was weird for a minute)
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Well, we were joking about me trying to convert him… but I could live with it if he never did even on his death bed (would still pray for his soul though)…
^^; Nevermind.
So I’m confused- What is an Evangelist and evangelizing? Is it the same as Catholicism? (sorry- very dumb)
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I think the first thing I need to say here is that you, jammin j, are awesome. This thread is getting quite interesting to read and I was even considering just lurking on it from now on, letting you pretty much take my place since you do such a good job explaining things… but there’s a couple points I can’t left unrefuted.
207:You said, “Missions might do some good things but in the long run they do more harm than good.” But this point is only backed up by one “fact” about one specific kind of mission work that I’ve never even heard of. Mission work does a lot of good, helping needy people, or animals, or the environment. That’s the whole point of it. And it doesn’t help only people with similar beliefs. (I’d like to know where you’re getting this information.) If a religious person doing mission work is discriminating against who they assist, their work is seriously flawed.
225: Do you even read the previous posts? You repeatedly bring up things the Catholics do, yet jammin j and many others have said they are not Catholic, but in fact another denomination of Christianity, and therefore those accusations do not apply to them at all.
229: daviddude/Christian for Christ, I get your point, or at least the part about Christians not believing what the Catholics did during the time of the Crusades. And I’m glad you came back.
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What’s wrong with being asscociated with Catholics? I mean, not that you should want to be, but what’s wrong with it?
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I repeat, I am against Christianity, and will argue against anyone who tries to defend it. Yes, most crimes were committed in the past. So? If you met a young nazi today, wouldn’t you have something against him? Ok, comparing naziism with Christianity isn’t really right, but think of those sort of analogies.
As for Christian intervention in sex ed… You guys really do need to get your facts straight. That’s what happens when your parents pull you out of sex ed to fill your head with dogmatic bollocks about “only for procreation”, “homosexuals are the cause of AIDs”, and “condoms don’t work 99% of the time”.
Now, among the many subvariations of Christianity, I mind the Protestants least. The Reform was a good thing, and Martin Luther was correct to criticize the Church as he did, in fact he wasn’t sharp enough. How did the Church respond? By labelling him a heretic and trying to burn him. Great. So much for Free Will, God’s great gift to man. Free Will itself is a contradiction in Christian terms, for isn’t God all powerful? And shouldn’t he take away free will to avoid innocent deaths?
Anyway, the Crusades, for example, happened long ago, but the stain of guilt is still there. And when I’m aggressive about Christianity, it’s not my religion telling me to do so, it’s because I believe that Christianity is actually morally incorrect and a form of mass control rather than spiritual guidance. The Church has throughout history been a political power, even had it’s own country (Patrimonio Di San Pietro, once stretching across the Italian Peninsula, now reduced to Vatican City), and the Pope was constantly battling for power over the masses against Germanic Emperors. Anyone who challenged the authority of the Pope was condemned as a heretic and burned. Great.
So I feel anger towards the Church and Christianity even now. They’ve become a political power again. Bush defines himself a “born again christian” and genuinely believes God gave him the Presidency. All the Megachurches who sermon about “doing thy will in Iraq”? Honestly, how can you not see it??
And please, don’t pray for me. You’re wasting your time. Odin’s taking me to Asgard.
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252. The one “fact” as you put it is well supported. Maybe you don’t consider talking to former Peace Corps members and education specialists working in thrid world countries a reliable source of information but I do.
Countries in which women have more kids are more likely to give women fewer rights (men dont care fot the kids women do. this becoms woman’s “all important task”, taking presidence over education etc). When few women work outside their home the economy is hurt. As the economy collapses fewer people, especially women are likely to get educations, this hurts the economy even more. When birth control is readilly available to families, there are fewer babies. So this one fact is actually a huge problem.
Most missions (sorry, no lists, you can look up various religion’s views on birth control if you want) tell those they help (as many MBers have been telling FS) that condoms/ birth control just won’t fly.
You are also miss quoting me…please read posts more carefully. I posted that “nonreligious aid organizations help all, without caring if those they help share their same moral values.”
I never said that missions don’t help those that aren’t their religion but they want those they help to convert to their religion. That’s their whole point. Their help includes teaching their own values. They don’t respect these people’s original religion or differing values.
Nonreligious aid organizations don’t give a damn about the religion of those they help.
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But saying that condoms don’t work most of the time is just plain bollocks. Do I need the GAPAs to back me up? How can we argue and debate intelligently if people just make up information to their liking???
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255- I think you may have that backwards; women aren’t not educated because they have a lot of kids, educated women don’t have as many kids.
Okay, that didn’t make sense. Rephrase: When women gain education, they often learn more about birth control, etc, and so choose to have fewer kids. It’s not that women are denied education because they have many kids, it’s that because they haven’t been educated, they have larger families.
Okay, now I’m not even sure if that’s what you were saying in the first place..
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Poor FrigidSymphony getting prayed for even though he’s going to Asgard… wasteful…
Christianity is a choice. Until you are old enough to know for yourself what you believe your parents should help you to live a Christian life but beyond that no one is forced into being Christian. There’s no reason for our faith to be changed. If people like Martin Luther want to change it, they may do what he did and start a new church. ..
So it’s not mass control. Allowing God to control your life and many people doing that could be considered that, I guess, but there’s always the choice to stop…
(Okay I am really stupid. I acknowledge that. Feel free to ignore or dissolve the pointless things I’ve said. Thank you and good day.)
About condoms- they are basically the only birth control that also protects against disease, so I think they’re a good thing and from my inexperienced knowledge I think they work well. So even though you don’t give a care I back up FrigidSymphony.
What do condoms have to do that much with religion, anyway? Either you use them or you don’t. Either your faith says ‘no’ and you go along with that or you ‘disobey’ and use it anyway. Or else your faith says nothing and you do or don’t.
Whether they work or not isn’t exactly the point… is it?
(It could be and I misread and missed the point…)
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Because Christian Churches argue that condoms don’t work, as well as that they’re sinful.
And Christianity is forced upon people. Kids are brought up by religious parents, taken to church, baptised, had various communions, and have only heard one viewpoint all their life, so that when they grow they are close-minded and brainwashed. It’s mass control.
And you’re wasting your breath praying for me. Don’t, it’s embarassing and insulting to my pagan pride.
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Dear GAPAs…
I am writing this because of my observation that this thread seems to generate a lot of hate, name-calling, swearing (even if written with symbols), maturish content in general, and just plain anger between musers. I feel that what goes on here, even if not what the thread is for, affects people the same way. And this way seems to directly undermine the principles of this blog. I think that it hurts the bloggers as well as you; after all of the effort you put into this blog to see it filled with unhappy people that you thought would be able to enjoy it probably makes you sad.
I for one have noticed a change even since the time I came here. I would hate to have to leave such a great place to “talk’ to other musers, and I think others feel the same way.
I suppose maybe this note seems a bit silly, but I just was really unhappy when I saw so many musers barely keeping within the limits of things you can say to others here. If others agree with me, I think closing this thread would greatly reduce this problem.
Please consider these thoughts, including any of you musers looking at this.
Sincerely,
Le Faucon Intéressé
(i. e. The Concerned HAWK)
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Um, okaaay just did some reading up on Martin Luther (have never actually heard of him before, really.)
The Church then was wrong. Martin Luther was correct, and most of which he said needed to be done is currently being practiced by us…
And who attempted to burn him? ^.- I read he was threatened with excommunication…
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Also it sounds like he was a premature (waaay premature) Nazi…
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But again, knowing nothing and not being well-learned I shut up.
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FrigidSymphony, you are attacking the institution of the beliefs but you should realize that it was not caused by the Faith itself. Jesus is not the cause. People have twisted divine words for as long as they have existed. Jesus did not preach against homosexuality, or against many things that are often accredited to him. And Christianity is certainly not the only religion that has been used as an excuse to do terrible things.
We need to accept other people. Good people are good people, no matter what they call their religion.
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259- not all people are brainwashed. My parents were brought up as Christians, but they have not brought me to church at all in my life. Now, I am an atheist and proud.
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Yay for 264 and 265… although I don’t think going to Church changes views much… when I was little my parents took me to church and for me it was just a playground where I was supposed to be quiet and people glared.
…I don’t usually pray aloud therefore it’s not wasting any breath and as no one can hear it your pagan pride cannot be insulted.
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It looks like things might be SLIGHTLY cooling off. But I still think poeple are ingnoring my post.
The Not Quite Sure HAWK
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267- Sorry Hawk. *silence of the golden-brown ducttape*
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If they closed this thread though then there’d be no where ‘decent’ to talk about religion… could they start a new thread maybe?
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269-I think if they started a new one, the mean people would go there. The problem is SOME PEOPLE OF WHICH I WILL NOT NAME can’t help making fun of other people’s choices. I feel if you’re happy with your way, that’s nice, but if I’m happy with what I’m doing, why insult it? I never insulted your choice!
The Friendly And Happiness-encouraging HAWK
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270- Sorry again Hawk. ( T_T )
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269-Well, in about 30 posts this thread is going to be full. However, I personally would rather have no new religion thread than another one.
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272- But religion is fun to talk about… even with FS being contrary and maybe me being annoying and whoever I haven’t noticed who is making a nuisance of ’emselves…
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273-It’s interesting, sure, but really, what more is there to talk about that hasn’t already been said?
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274- That’s a point, I guess… but it’s such an important part of life and if people weren’t determined to fight about it, wouldn’t a Religion thread be a good place for us to clear up misunderstandings and ask questions about others religions and talk about our own, or for Christians to connect and share personal feelings, experiences, not to mention people of other religions being able to do the same thing?
…
That was lame, okay. But I think even if they don’t make a new Religion thread the GAPAs will still make a new Hot Topics thread and that sounds scarier to me…
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275-That’s what it’s supposed to be for, but…that’s not exactly how it’s worked out. Also, I think it’s better to have one hot topics thread than a religion one AND a hot topics one. That way we can keep all the objectional material in one place.
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(275) Neither Religions nor Hot Topics should be scary threads, Evie. If you look here you will see Robert’s explanation of how the Hot Topics thread should be handled. It was meant for handling subjects that require more civility not less. People sometimes let their passions get the better of them.
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276
But what about the parts of religion that aren’t objectional?
I guess that makes sense though. I was about to say, “But then we might move on past religion!”
I guess, though, that if the thread weren’t there people wouldn’t feel provoked to talk about it, and if for some reason it got brought up it’d be for a better reason than the sake of talking in the Religion thread…
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278-someone would probably object to anything said about religion.
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276
Oh. So this was changed to Hot Topic because the dicussion required more civility?
^^ I don’t think a Religion thread is scary at all, Rebecca… and not really a Hot Topic one, either. But in comparison I think I’d be more afraid of a Hot Topic thread than a Religion one, so I said it’d be scarier… sorry.
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277-Well, yes, and I think that right now religion requires civility, judging by what’s going on the thread.
278-Yeah, I mean, if somebody wants to talk about religion in a respectful manner, I’m completely supportive of it. But, see, on this thread most conversations haven’t been conducted in a respectful manner.
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281- Sometimes it’s fun to “debate” (in my vocabulary… I’ve been told by others my idea of debating is actually unjustified agruing. ^^; )…
Anyway, you’re right. I hope they at least make a new Hot Topics thread then, so we can keep talking about whatever it is we were talking about before everyone started getting upset (I think that’s including me) about the mistreatment of the Religion thread…
279- …people like that need to be respected too… it’s okay if someone shoots everything down so long as they’re civil about it… but I guess then someone would reply to that comment, “But they haven’t been civil!” :sweat:
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97- Im Catholic.
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YAY! *tackles BG of comment 283*
SOr-ry.
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