anyways, on to business. right now i’m not quite sure what religion i believe in. i think the Norse and Greek gods are pretty cool, but the FSM is just really interesting. i can’t decide. hmmmm…..
0
0
1- the PoPoPo is after you, Gemini Elf!
2- I like FSM, except for the “I’d really rather you didn’ts”. They annoy me, so I’m just staying atheist.
0
0
I’m an atheist, as stated on the last religions thread…maybe we can actually keep this one on the above-stated subject.
0
0
if anyone makes a religion list, then put me under “Mixed Bag of Random Beliefs.
0
0
Gemini Elf, are you homeschooled?
0
0
6 – nope. [geographic information snipped. –Admin.]
0
0
i just keep changing my name! hehehehe…
0
0
Atheist and Proud!! Also, I’m blogging from school right now!
0
0
I’m a christian
I thought there already was a Religions, v. 2007.2
0
0
There was, but it got turned into a Hot Topics thread, because that’s what it became.
0
0
I’m Pagan.
0
0
10 – also, it got closed because of the weird virusy thingy that the GAPAs sent through the system. i think.
0
0
I’m Christian.
1- Since I became an officer of the PoPoPo on the welcome newcomers thread, I fine you two pieces of virtual choklit. One for the PoPo, and one because it was the first post thing.
Yeh, I’m a Christian and am proud of it.
9- I would never blog from school, because they keep track of all the sites you go on, and no-one would realise what a wonderful site this is.
0
0
You seem to be missing a fundamental point about the FSM… it’s a satire religion making fun of dogmatic Christianity.
0
0
14- I only blogged from school because it was on the library’s account, not a personal one. I hope that made sense.
15- What is FSM?
0
0
So… Who’s with me in my fight for freedom and spiritual rebellion?
0
0
(17),
I thought participants in religion threads had agreed not to try to convert one another.
0
0
I never did. And I’m not asking for conversion, I’m asking for awareness against the dark side of Christianity.
Christianity became the official religion of the roman empire. How? Rome was the Devil’s land, the Romans killed Christ!
Rome itself was a decadent culture by that time, drowning in violence. Women were mere possesions, slavery was enforced and children were sold to prostitution or worse. The Emperor was allowed to name his horse a senator or to rape his mother, no one cared anymore. The Empire was drowning.
“Barbarian” peoples, strong in their social unity and lifestyle, invaded, and the Empire could not resist. But these too were soon corrupted by the decadent atmosphere of Rome.
Then all of a sudden Christianity arrives! The men in power go from being slaveowners and cruel taskmasters to bishops and priests. Yet the life conditions still decrease.
Christianity had to adapt to the disgusting life of Rome for acceptance. Christianity did not stop to wonder about who had martyred the first Christians, it just made itself its servant.
Constantine was the first Emperor to adopt Christianity as official cult. To know what sort of guy he was, just remember he killed his son, cousin, wife and son in law. Constantine claimed that Jesus appeared to him in a dream and told him to go into battle with the sign of the cross painted on his shields. Of course many other Christians were not impressed by this abuse of Jesus for violent means, and they were killed.
The very beginnings of Christianity, and certainly its introduction as official cult and widespread religion, are marked with blood. Christianity has never been used as a tool for good, it has always been a political power and tool to incite and aggravate the masses.
There. History lesson finished.
0
0
19- Thanks for the history lesson. Makes one think a little…
19: I could accept “Christianity has often been used as a tool for bad,” but to say that “Christianity has never been used as a tool for good” is an extremely arrogant statement that assumes that you know absolutely everything there is to know about Christianity both now and in the past. I would appreciate it if you would refrain from posting unobjective, generalized statements such as this that may not, in fact, reflect the truth for every situation.
For anyone who is interested, I reccomend the teachings of Rob Bell, the founder of Mars Hill church in Grand Rapids, Michigan.
0
0
FSM isn’t just a satire of Christianity, it was founded for a cause and is used to combat both bad intelligent design, and global warming. Here’s some of their beliefs:
1)The world was created by a Flying Spahgetti Monster
2) Global warming is caused by a decrease in the number of pirates around the world
3)Evolution was all planted by the FSM
Anyone heard of Russell’s Teapot, or the IPU?
FS anything to say about my previous comment on Islam?(other thread)
We need a list of names and reigions.
0
0
Here’s my religions list. I haven’t updated it since the flee from the previous religion thread(s). I always try to stay on the thread in the beginning, but end up running away in terror. Let’s see how long I last this time.
Muslim
FantasyFan?!?!
Jewish
Sphinx
elassë~adael
Quintessentia
groundhog22
hypermoocow
ha
FairyDragon Reform
yellowsharpiemarker
Julieb Reconstructionist
Kiki The Great
Anata~ChinTsu Conservative
Copper Bigfoot
Brave Sir Robin
Zyviva Orthodox
Phoenix
Jessie Jewish Athiest
Lizzie
emmatheduck
Christian
cHill
MontgomeryGurl
Ninja For Christ
Eccentric the Afterthought
Kagcomix Lutheran
Queen-o-random
Capricious Catholic
Ebeth
davidude
Piggy the Proud Catholic American Orthodox
Sunrunner Bramblewood Quaker
Purple Panda
Zallie
Taiwan Hippo Fan
elassë~adael
Red Tailed HAWK
Liesolotte Orthodox Christian
Dot Keet Protestant
book_addict
VanZepplin
Otzi Mormon (LDS)
Skwerl Overlord
Veralidaine
Zyka Methodist
grnqween2011 Presbyterian
Elizabeth Baptist
jammin j
Hindu
♥ shriya siolashrwa jeffica ♥
Buddhist
100% cotton
Agnostic
Sweet Melpomene
curious and questioning
SupremeMuser2000
Lady Visala of Reverie
Wiccan
emogrl
FairyDragon
Mixed Bag of Random Beliefs
Pentatonikk
Gwendolyn of the Eastern Seas
Otzi
Axa
elassë~adael
curious and questioning
Musketeer Number 5
Sweet Melpomene
Druid Reconstructionist
Millie
Atheist
Skipper Nancy
Darth Yoda
Lizzie
penguini
Yup
Bobbyjkl
First Sorceress
Shadowkat
curious and questioning
Potato Chip
Cat’s Meow Spiritual Athiest
The Bev
Harmony with short red hair Radical Athiest
Angel’s Holocaust
Queenie J
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM)
Necromancer
Dark duke of darkness
Majora’s Wrath
Asatruar
Frigid Symphony
Green Cow
curious and questioning
0
0
I am agnostic and have told no one except a you guys and my friends on another one of my various blogs. I’m afraid my family will disown me.
I’m such a wimp.
0
0
Why did they make another thread for arguing and name-calling???
The bunny is still broken (I think)
0
0
I’m still trying to figure out what American Orthodox is. Is Sunrunner Bramblewood still on the blog?
22: Thanks for saying that.
0
0
(27),
Sunrunner Bramblewood last posted on March 20. Technically, she’d count as Eastern Orthodox. She explained (under an earlier name) here:
i am SO an athiest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! cHill,
count me on your list.(even though im totally new)
0
0
28: Oh, okay, cool. The link didn’t work, but I got to the thread and got the gist of it. I’m Eastern Orthodox, too. PP, could you put me down as that instead (instead of “Orthodox Christian”)? Thanks bunches. Although it’s not that important (“just a question of schemantics”, which was my chem teacher’s favorite thing to say, although I probably spelled that wrong and misused it), so maybe just include it next time you’re adding people.
0
0
Happy Pesach (passover) everyone!
Our seder was… interesting to say the least. But fun.
0
0
31- Ditto. Sam Bearman makes everything…. interesting.
We dip potatoes instead of parsley.
0
0
I’m an atheist. I have trouble believeing that the Earth was created in just a week. (That is what Catholics believe, right?) My family used to be Catholic, but stopped going to church when I was in kindergarten. The main reason I’m not religious is because the bible says absolutely nothing about prehistoric life, and that the Earth as we know it (almost) has always been like this. No evolution, nothing.
31: What’s seder? Sorry, I don’t know much about religions.
0
0
25-Oh, you poor thing! That’s sad…I mean the part about how you’re afraid to tell your parents. I’m fairly lucky in that respect…my family’s not religious.
0
0
Sorry for double post, but I have to say, for all the people who practice Lent: one of my friends (who is extremely sarcastic and witty) gave up quips and/or comebacks for Lent…it’s killing him.
0
0
24 – HAHAHA!!! you have me on your list 2 times, as AH and MW. now i’m Sand Demon, so put me on MBORB, please.
0
0
add on to my previous post…MBORB is Mixed Bag Of Random Beliefs.
0
0
34- Yep. It sucks.
0
0
CRAP! I just gave away my alias.
0
0
33, I’m Catholic but we do not believe exactly in the one-week thing. My parents say that one week for God could translate as billions of years in human years. Actually, I’m kind of at a crossroad between Christianity and Atheism. It’s hard to believe in God but also hard to not believe in God. I also believe in evolution (don’t tell my dad this).
Bye!
P. S. I’m homeschooled.
P. P. S. I gave up dessert and white flour for lent.
0
0
39 – You gotta be careful what you post on MuseBlog. Remember, any creep on the entire planet can read what you type as long as they have access to the internet. Do your parents ever come onto MuseBlog to read what you type? They might find out a lot more about your inner self.
0
0
farewell and good luck, my fellow MBers! i’m off on a trip that will last an hour and i won’t have any wireless internet. *cries* see u all l8r!
0
0
23: What comment?
25, 40, whoever esle: Exactly. You can’t deny the faith or your parents will punish you. What is wrong with people???
0
0
40 – I gave up going to the movies for lent.
42 – You’re that addicted?
0
0
43- On the previous religion thread that turned into a hot topics thread. Here it is again:
On an entierly different note, I just saw an article in the NY Times about a scholar translating the Koran into English, and finding another translation for the word that FS used to refer to his belief that Islam was sexist. “Daraba” can mean several other things besides to beat, or have sex with.
Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/25/us/25koran.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
0
0
45: There are many other extracts from the koran that are extremely sexist, if not more.
It can stay a religion thread, with Catholics and Christians defending their religion (which is more a political power than anything) from my onslaught. Any thoughts to the history lesson? Christianity was first imposed as a religion by a violent, politically ambitious man in a society full of violence and decadence. I’d say it managed pretty well to adapt…
0
0
19-THE ROMANS DID NOT KILL JESUS! That is a common belief, but is wrong. Jesus was merely killed IN the Roman Empire, as they ruled most of modern-day Europe and Northern Africa. Jesus was taken to a Roman court, but the judge did not find anything wrong with him, so the pharisees took him to a Jewish court, where the judge already believed Jesus was false and insane. So the Romans believed Jesus was who he claimed to be, and they became the Holy ROman Empire. The Jews prosecute and crucified Jesus. THat is why Jews were mistreated in the Middle Ages. By the way, I am a Christian-LOUD AND PROUD!!!!!
0
0
40-RIght on! The world was not created in just one week. THe term “days” could have meant just a block of time. WHen we say, “to this day” or something like that, “to this day” could be many days! That is why, if you study Earth History, scientists believe in evolution. Because, in the Bible, it says God created humans last. This means he created many things before it, including humanoid creatures, that weren’t homo sapiens. This has cause scientists to believe that the humanoids changed to homo sapiens. This is not true. We may be in the same genus or order as the cavemen, but we weren’t ever just cavemen. In fact, those “days” in which God created the Earth might have even gone up to just about 100,000 years ago, when scientists believe the first modern humans were created. Either that or archaeologists just haven’t found older homo sapien fossils yet!
0
0
Woa! How did evolution come up on the religions thread? You might want to move this disscusion to the hot topics thread to avoid upsetting anyone. I don’t even really want to get into this debate. *runs from thread before being pelted with information for why the Earth really was created in 6 days run run run!*
0
0
FrigidSymphony, your whole argument against Christianity is undermined when you talk about how it was during the Roman Empire. This is the twenty-first century!
0
0
DTASAN,that theory doesnt explain the dinosaurs and other ,more ancient, things.you really think it would take god,if there is one, a BILLION years to create life?
0
0
A couple of factual points:
(47) I’m not sure about the relations between Roman and Jewish law in Judea at the time (where is Larry Gonick when you need him?), but I do know that the Jews did not execute people by crucifying them. Crucifixion was a Roman punishment.
(48) Even if you stretch time and reinterpret “days,” most scientists would disagree with Genesis’s account of the order in which things came into being, i.e.,
1. day and night
2. the sky
3. dry land and oceans; trees and plants
4. stars, sun, moon
5. sea animals and birds
6. land animals and people
0
0
I hope that worked. That should be a link to a very funny easter video, sorry those who aren’t christian, but I bet you’ll still think it’s funny.
0
0
I have a question. While we’re discussing evolution, why is it so negative to be associated with “cavemen” and “monkeys”? Why is that so bad for people?
Why do you give up things for Lent? Is there a Biblical thing for it? Or is it just a tradition? I’m not trying to be rude, I’m just curious.
0
0
Gah!! It didn’t work! I will figure it out…
0
0
51: That is, of course, assuming that God would not have created the universe with the apperance of age.
0
0
whats so wrong about evolving from monkeys?
0
0
(55),
No links allowed, GQ. The Rules, you know. Besides, we’re much more interested in what you have to say than in what some anonymous animator whipped up.
0
0
i like monkeys! im honered to evolve from them!
0
0
54- People just don’t like to think that they’re related to monkeys. That was part of the reason Darwin was ridiculed, even though he stated that people evolved from a common ancestor, not from monkeys.
Fasting is to help you think about suffering, and make easter seem even more happy. Don’t worry, you aren’t close to rude.
55- Outside links are generally blocked, and it doesn’t seem very revelant.
0
0
Lent is because Jesus spent 40 days in the desert and was tempted thrice by the devil. I think. Maybe that’s another holiday… My video was revlevant and hilarious. If you go to American Greetings and search We Are Easter Bunnies. It will be the one with a blue bunny, a pink bunny, and a white bunny on the icon. There. I got around the link, and it’s easter related so it’s relevant.
0
0
47- I would like to reproduce a letter written by the director of inter faith affairs of the Anti-Defamation league to the editor of Slate.com on this topic.
Letter to the Editor
Slate.com September 19, 2003
To the Editor:
Steven Waldman (“Passion Misplay,” Sept. 17) claims that we “should not care” about the question of who killed Jesus. But history has shown clearly that people do care very much about the answer. It is therefore critical to get the answer right in order to prevent more anti-Semitic violence and prejudice that past wrong answers have caused. To ignore reality for what “should” be is to abdicate moral responsibility.
Waldman claims that the “Jews did kill Jesus.” No scholar, historian or informed reader of Christian scriptures makes such an absurd statement. Jews never crucified anyone, since crucifixion was a Roman punishment for the political crime of sedition against the Roman Empire.
The Jewish mode of capital punishment–rarely used–was stoning, not crucifixion which is repugnant to all Jewish judicial and ethical values. Pontius Pilate was a ruthless dictator, and Jewish priests were his subordinate appointees who were in no position to “force him” to do anything. The decision of crucifixion and its implementation was in the jurisdiction of the Roman authorities alone.
Pope John Paul II has called the age-old anti-Semitic theology that the Jews bear responsibility for the death of Jesus an “unjust and erroneous interpretation” of Christian scriptures. Waldman is correct that some have interpreted the gospels to refer to “all the Jews” as being in collusion with Rome to execute Jesus.
This noxious claim is now theologically and historically discredited, but “The Passion” continues to portray it. The film fails to depict even one Jew who is not a proto-Christian as opposing the execution, or having any compassion for a brutalized and mutilated victim. Quite the contrary, it graphically depicts a huge Jewish mob and all Jewish authorities forcing an unwilling Pilate to execute Jesus.
Yes, some Jews may have opposed Jesus. Very few dispute this. But in contrast to the film, an accurate reading of gospels, history and current Catholic theology all indicate that these Jews were few in number and represented neither Judaism nor the Jewish people generally.
The problem is not the gospels, nor primarily with those who take scriptures seriously. It is with the illicit weaving together of disparate passages of Christian scripture to create a false negative stereotype of Jews, with the use of extra-biblical and openly anti-Semitic mystical visions of a 19th nun, and with a blatant disregard for historical accuracy that markets itself as “the truth.” Scholars—both Jewish and Christian–have found “The Passion” to rely heavily on these techniques.
Christians should celebrate the passion of Jesus as the central narrative of their faith. But as all responsible Christian religious leaders insist, this must be done without anti-Semitic and anti-Judaic teachings. ADL asks of Mel Gibson that he do nothing less.
Sincerely,
Rabbi Eugene Korn
Director, Interfaith Affairs
0
0
40 & 48 Ahhh…… it makes sense now.
0
0
~Should there be any changes to the list? I don’t want to repost it unneccessarily because it takes up so much space.
~OK GQ, that was interesting. It isn’t really Easter related though, because bunnies and food weren’t following Jesus. Just might not be a good example of a religion for someone who’s already confused.
~62- Very good.
I don’t agree with the re-interpretation of days, because it seems as if the RCC is just trying to remain completely true without looking at itself. The old testement bible is a collection of Jewish stories, and I don’t think that it would be possible for any stories to be passed on for that long without changing somehow. If we all saw it as a good guide for living instead of
a literal history, we could stop arguing so much.
0
0
47: Excuse me, you have no grasp of history. First of all, The Holy Roman Empire emerged from the Franks towards the end of the first millenium. The Carolingians and the Merovingians where Frankish tribes, Charlemagne was crowed Holy Roman Emperor by the Pope against his will, a brilliant political move on behalf of the Pope, who now had strong ties to the most powerful military leader in Europe.
As for Jesus, he was killed by the Romans, in a Roman court. The lie that the Jews killed him is widespread throughout history, a smear campaign by the Church against their enemies. And Jews were prosecuted before the death of Christ. Pharaoh, maybe? It is historical fact that the Jews lived in Egypt under tyrannical rule until they managed to escape. What you are doing is inciting unbased hatred against a Religion and people that have never done anything bad to anyone. Why is this tolerated when I get banned for simple name calling?
50: Not at all. Giving you this historical background to the first official appearance of Christianity gives you an idea of how it was first used, and enables us to make analogies. For example, Bush uses the Religious Right as an excuse to wage war on Iraq. Now, most people suspect, and probably rightly so, that the real motive is oil and personal vendetta, but many people in America believe that it is God’s Will. In Italy the Church has become a political power, prostituting itself for political campaigning. Honestly, it really isn’t hard to see, just look beyond Fox News and seek out the advice of someone else who isn’t ignorant and biased.
0
0
I really am sorry to call you out on this, Fridgy, but you just quoted the bible as being historical fact. There is no evidence other than the Book of Exodus that the Jews were slaves in Egypt. Not that some parts of the story may be more accurate than others, Jews living in Egypt certainly seems plausible, vs. parting of the red sea, for example.
0
0
The Bible is symbolic. Some is inaccurate, and some is symbolic, and a teeny bit is accurate, but even that is often misunderstood and people interpret it to fit their own ideas. I mean, these people were, like basically ancient history and a lot of the stuff they said has different meanings then if they said it now. And the Bible’s been re-translated a billion times, and bits have no doubt been changed, and et cetera… Anyways, it’s far from totally reliable.
0
0
FS- Could we have a civil discussion about religion? I would like to post something but I am afraid that you will start attacking me about my beliefs. You are not always right, there is more than one way to be biased, and you can give people information without trying to sound superior to them.
0
0
Why do people always think Fridge is attacking them? Maybe he is, but Fridgey doesn’t sound very vicious to me.
0
0
69- He hasn’t attacked me, but I was reading his comments and he seems to attack other people.
0
0
24 – Catholic: Kiara
67 – Yep. Most of the Bible probably isn’t historically correct, even though some of the base events might be. It’s mostly, wel, whatever someone interprets it as. It turns out being rather confusing overall, becc ause whatever you think the Bible menas, someone else probably thinks something else. Blah.
0
0
i am so lucky ,ive got an athiest dad and a Christian mom , and neither really care what religion i am just as long as i dont join some Satanistic cult.
0
0
65 – *ahem* Excuse me! Here’s what happened:
Jesus preached the good news and broke tradition, which angered the Jewish high priests.
The Jewish high priests arrested him, after one of Jesus’s disciples betrayed him and turned him over to the church court.
After the Jewish high priests arrested him, they hastily had a trial in the middle of the night before anyone could stop them. Eventually they got Jesus to say he was the son of god (which he was, but nobody belived that) and so they gave him a death scentence for “blasphemy”.
Then they marched him to Herod the king to give the death scentence. But he said it was not his authority to do that, and kicked them out.
Then Jesus was marched over to Pontius Pilate (or however you spell that) who found Jesus not guilty. But the Jewish crowd howled for Jesus to be crucified. PP was in a muddle: if he let the innocent man go free, he would lose power and start a riot. But if he crucified him, then he would be brutally killing an innocent man. So he let the Jewish crowd decide what to do with Jesus.
After that, Jesus was flogged, mocked, beaten, marched over to Golgatha, nailed to a post, and left hanging there to die by Roman soldiers just doing their orders.
So even though the Romans executed him, the Jewish crowed decided.
And anyway, 71 is right. The Bible has been translated a hundred times into a hundred languages, so things can get slightly altered over time.
Charlemange was crowned king by the pope, who by the will of God crowned him king of the Holy Roman Empire. Charlemange wanted to be king, but he wanted people to think HE had made himself king, not the pope.
FS, have you read the Bible? I’m just wondering, since you’re so opposed to it.
0
0
FS- 47- Although you’re wrong about the Exodus, I can see what you’re trying to say about the toleration. One person’s beliefs can be questioned though, and insulting someone will only push them away from what could be an eye-opening discussion.
50- Things can change. If the Roman Catholic Church weren’t around today, a lot of people would be hurt. Just because it was bad back then doesn’t mean it’s still evil today.
70- FS knows his facts, and feels very strongly about them. Try to just read, think, and respond civilly.
0
0
74- FS can know facts and feel strongly about them, but he could be civil when informing other people.
0
0
I’m not trying to stir up trouble here or anything…but sometimes I wonder how there’s anyway to substantiate the various events in religious texts, and I don’t mean the outright divine aspects, I mean the flow of time and events. Are there written texts separate from religious ones that refer to Jesus and what was going on? (Or Mohammad or Buddha for that matter).
I’m just curious to know.
0
0
Davidude(73)- Um, hello. Read post 62
0
0
(76),
There are no independent (non-Biblical) contemporary descriptions of Jesus. The Buddha was a wandering guru, and nobody wrote down anything he said until long after he was dead. (Fortunately, he had a simple message and taught it as easy-to-memorize lists.) I’m not sure whether Indian records of the time say anything about him, but I’d be surprised if they did. Mohammed sounds like the best bet–but he lived in a backwater, and the Byzantines and other major powers didn’t pay much attention until his successors came knocking at their doors (or, more likely, knocking them down).
0
0
46: Your “history” covers the spread of Western Christianity only, aka Roman Catholicism. Check your facts.
0
0
(78) Hmm, interesting… This is the aspect of theology that intrigues me. I always wonder about this. Aren’t the bones of all the Saints in the catacombs of the Vatican? Or somewhere…So we could say that Paul and Peter were real historical figures but there isn’t any solid, tangible proof of Jesus. Of course there’s the tomb he was buried in… Now that I think about it, were the scriptures written during the time of Jesus?
I don’t mean any of this in a “You can’t prove Jesus was real” way, I’m just looking at it in a “piece together actual proven facts” way. It’s neat to see parallels in history and religion.
0
0
79: And Christianity first gained hold in the Roman Empire, more than a millenia before religious fanatics were thrown out of England for being too extreme. I am of course referring to those who first “colonized” America. The first use of Christianity was made in Roman Europe.
74:How would many people be hurt if the Church weren’t around today?
73: I have read not all of the Bible, but many parts, in various religion classes throughout school.
66: It is generally accepted by historians that the jews lived in Egypt for some time, then left.
RDC, post your beliefs, and if I disagree with something you say, I will argue against it. Just don’t be overly sensitive and argue back.
As for Christianity and the Church, and all major religions, as political powers… Why do countries have an ‘official’ religion?
0
0
do you guys know about the Phelps Family? The Westboro Baptist Church? Go watch “The Most Hated Family In America” on youtube.
0
0
36 – I will not change your name every five seconds on the religions list every time you change your name. If you find a name you’re content with and decide to keep it, and stop changing your name every two days, I will put it there. I’ll change you to Sand Demon now, but unless you choose a permanent name, I really don’t feel like re-doing the whole religions list every time you change your name.
I know FS was talking about the Koran, but I’m not sure who else. If FantasyFan was here she would be able to explain this really well. But I have read both the Koran and the Bible, and (I’m not trying to stir up any controversy here, just saying what I’ve noticed) I found a lot more images of peace in the Koran than in the Bible.
And here’s an updated religions list:
Muslim
FantasyFan?!?!
Jewish
Sphinx
elassë~adael
Quintessentia
groundhog22
hypermoocow
ha
FairyDragon Reform
yellowsharpiemarker
Julieb Reconstructionist
Kiki The Great
Anata~ChinTsu Conservative
Copper Bigfoot
Brave Sir Robin
Zyviva Orthodox
Phoenix
Jessie Jewish Athiest
Lizzie
emmatheduck
Christian
cHill
Donaldo
MontgomeryGurl
Ninja For Christ
Eccentric the Afterthought
Kagcomix Lutheran
Queen-o-random
Capricious Catholic
Kiara
Romana2
Ebeth
davidude
Piggy the Proud Catholic Eastern Orthodox
Sunrunner Bramblewood
Dot Keet Quaker
Purple Panda
Zallie
Taiwan Hippo Fan
elassë~adael
Red Tailed HAWK
Liesolotte Protestant
book_addict
VanZepplin
Otzi Mormon (LDS)
Skwerl Overlord
Veralidaine
Zyka Methodist
grnqween2011 Presbyterian
Elizabeth Baptist
jammin j
Hindu
♥ shriya siolashrwa jeffica ♥
Buddhist
100% cotton
Agnostic
Sweet Melpomene
curious and questioning
SupremeMuser2000
Lady Visala of Reverie
Wiccan
emogrl
FairyDragon
Mixed Bag of Random Beliefs
Pentatonikk
Gwendolyn of the Eastern Seas
Otzi
Sand Demon
Axa
elassë~adael
curious and questioning
Musketeer Number 5
Sweet Melpomene
Druid Reconstructionist
Millie
Atheist
Skipper Nancy
johnkerry
Darth Yoda
Lizzie
penguini
violindino
Yup
Bobbyjkl
First Sorceress
Shadowkat
curious and questioning
Potato Chip
Cat’s Meow Spiritual Athiest
The Bev
Harmony with short red hair Radical Athiest
Queenie J
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM)
Necromancer
Dark duke of darkness
Asatruar
Frigid Symphony
Green Cow
curious and questioning
0
0
By the way, the religion is called Asatru, while a follower is called Asatruar.
0
0
79- yes, yes, that’s what I’m trying to say. You’re talking about catholicism. Well, many Christian sects today felt the same way as FS about Roman Catholicism and broke away. Some of them had good reasons, some didn’t (Henry the eighth). Yes, they were persecuted-by other Christians. I’m not trying to fight against Roman Catholicism: I know tons of Catholics and they’re all great people. But the church was corrupt around that time period. So, FS, please make it clear just what you’re ‘against’. You can’t just fight Christianity, because Christianity fights itself.
65- ‘ignorant and biased?’ Are you trying to put me on the side of Bush’s personal war? I beg your pardon.
0
0
83- Put me on as Christian. Just Christian, none of the subcatagories. I don’t really like the way the Church has spilt up.
0
0
85: All of Christianity. All of it. It has always been a political power, and always will be. And Catholicism was the first, strongest, and oldest form of Christianity. Still is.
0
0
86: Oh, in your opinion it should have remained a single organization with one widespread dogma? I much prefer the Church this way, seperate entities are easier to fight.
0
0
83 – Just so you know, curious and questioning is under the mixed bag of random belifs and Green cow.
86 – Yea. Jesus prayed that all his followers would be one, and now look at the mess.
Random: Why are there so many Jews, Christians, and Atheists on MuseBlog? Why aren’t there more Muslims or Bhuddists (wait, Buddhists probably don’t own computers) or Hindus?
0
0
(FS) After you went to bed, I was part of the final force that fought furiously to end BunnyBlog. My smiley infantry and firing kicked those bunnies out at approximately 7:00 MuseBlog time. I helped save you from a fate that was ruining your Sunday! But you never knew that because those threads were saved as drafts so they wouldn’t clutter up the blog. You can have a look at how it ended here. https://musefanpage.com/blog/?p=769
0
0
54- The reason its bad is because they had no intelligence. Cavemen did, and Im fine with being related to a caveman. (and geico.com would be soooooo much easier). But monkeys are stupid. Maybe they can learn basic skills like making fires or combing hair, but can they design a house? Can they write a book? Can they engage in a conversation about absolutly ANYTHING? No. But we can. Thats the big difference. And dont anyone forget it.
0
0
89- Yea, I was wondering that too. Maybe it has something to do with not owning a computor, but maybe blogging and texting is looked down upon. I dont know. I wish someone would explain it, cuz i dont have many Muslim or Hindu friends.
0
0
83- Just a question: Why are you even taking the time to make such an extinsive list? You seem pretty annnoyed that people are changing their minds and names and all sorts of stuff, so why do it? Does anyone really care? I dont. No offense. If you want to continue, you can always put me under catholic.
0
0
90: and this belongs in the religion thread because…?
0
0
91: Monkeys are a species that are further down the evolutive line than humans. We evolved from them, but we aren’t monkeys. And don’t say they’re stupid. Koko the monkey knows sign language.
0
0
We didn’t evolve from monkeys. I wish people would check there facts before bashing evolution. We share a common ancestor with apes. Both genus’ (I believe that is the correct branch, but I’m not completely sure) evolved seperately.
95- The orangutans at the National Zoo can communicate using abstract symbols.
0
0
We didn’t evolve from monkeys! A common ancestor !
0
0
Technically, humans, chimps, bonobos, gorillas, and orangutans are all classified as apes. All of them/us evolved from a now-extinct common ancestor, which was also an ape. Further back, apes and monkeys evolved from a common ancestor.
But this doesn’t really belong on a Religions thread either. Should I start an Evolution thread?
0
0
98- YOU BET!!! *rubs hands* ohh this should be fun
0
0
96- RIGHT ON!!
0
0
87-And why not other religions? I would say that they are also political powers, to varying extents.
0
0
Axa (80),
None of the books of the New Testament were written until decades after the Crucifixion. Wikipedia gives an interesting description of what is known about their origins: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_testament
0
0
80: Yes, the scriptures were written during Jesus’s time, but compiled later.
81: Christianity did not first spread in the Roman Empire, that was Catholicism. Eastern Christianity was not founded when Englanders borke from the Catholics, that was Protestantism. As I said, check your facts. After Jesus died, he still had followers. The Jews who believed in everything He stood for eventually became the Christians. His disciples continued to do His work by spreading the good news, and all but one of them were martyred. Much later, once Christianity was organized, some followers decided the Pope was infallible and so they broke off and became Roman Catholicism.
0
0
103- I thought all of them were killed! And Judus was not killed, he commited suicide. : (
0
0
Slghtly new topic- What do people think about Intelligent Design?
0
0
93 – I just have a Microsoft Word document with all the HTML already in it. Every few weeks I update it. It’s really not hard to do, and I thought people liked the list, but I’ll stop posting it if people don’t want it.
98 – An evolution thread would be awesome!
105 – I don’t know much about it *wikis*
0
0
(103, 81),
The Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches split in 1054. Protestantism came along about 500 years later–with Martin Luther and others in Central Europe, and later (for different reasons) Henry VIII in England.
0
0
104: John (the one who wrote Revelation) was not martyred, but he died while in exile on the island of Patmos.
0
0
108-Oh, thanks. Thats just as bad though.
106-GO TO THE EVOLUTION THREAD
0
0
43- Not necessarily. My parents would probably accept that I had made my own decisions and let it be.
54- I give up things for lent to see if I can do it. Test my self-control.
95- Er… knew. She died a while back. Though lots of gorrilas have learned sing launguage over the years, and can paint and show emotions. Hmm. This really belongs on the evolution thread.
…And do you believe in rock and roll?
Can music, save your mortal soul
And…can ya’ teach me how to dance
Reeeeal sloooow…
0
0
110, whoever mentioned this: In first grade I read the book Koko’s Kitten and wrote a letter to her. Somehow as a result, I joined some sort of club that basically asked for money through the mail. Koko is still alive. There is actually much controversy surrounding Koko’s use of language; see the Wikipedia article on her.
93: Because it’s interesting. Go list lovers!
0
0
94 – Because this was where I thought you would be most likely to see it.
I will not be on MuseBlog tomorrow…it’s Good Friday you know, the holiest day of the year in Christianity.
0
0
111-Oh, Im not saying I dont like lists. I am an extensive list maker myself. I have a whole list of songs I would like on my iPod and another one about them in order from least to greatest. I even list things I have already done on to-do lists just so I can cross them out!!!
0
0
52-I don’t mean to start anything, but the thing was, the Jewish priests did crucify Jesus because they were under Roman law. They had to follow Roman Law because Rome was more powerful than the church at that time. That is why they crucified him.
0
0
66-Parting the Red Sea should be believable because it was an act of God! Not Moses. It is just as believableas any other part in the ook of Exodus and there is other proof that the Jews were slaves in Egypt. Read in your history book!
0
0
114-depressing, isnt it?
0
0
ANother rant on evolution:There is proof that evolution occured in the world. If you had to live in the Ice Age, you would probably start evolving/adapting and growing fur, so you could better survive. But the part of evolution that doesn’t make sense is this:Why would an organism want to go from a single eukaryotic cell to a fish to an ape to a human? What reason would there be(and how is it possible) for a fish to grow lungs and be able to live on land. That is like changing your gender. Without plastic surgeons and dermatologists and all sorts of other doctors, it isn’t possible! Why would it want to? If all fish wanted to become apes, and all apes wanted to become humans, then we probably wouldn’t have any fish or apes! Check out the videos: “Creatures That Defy Evolution” for more info. And GAPAs-please post this! I know it should probably be going on the Evolution thread, but Evolution and Darwinism is also part of many major world religions, because Christians believe that all creatures were made how they already were and that homo sapiens were never apes, they were made by God as who we are today!
0
0
117- yes that should have been on the evolution thread. please contribute to the evolution descussion.
0
0
115- What proof? As a Jew, I would very much like to believe it, but I have never been presented with anything that either confirms or denies that the Jews lived in egypt or were slaves. And when was the last time you saw a miracle? This sort of dogmatic, arbitrary, blind faith is exactly why you get shot down by FridgidSymphony.
0
0
Well, I have not seen any major miracles like parting the Red Sea or manna from heaven, but that does not matter. I say shame on you! As a Jew, you should know that God is performing small miracles everyday in your life. Part of your religion and my religion is to believe that the Exodus and all the miracles performed did occur.
0
0
GAPA-sorry, I read in my Bible and you were write the Jews did not crucify Jesus. But the Jews did put Jesus on trial. They brought him to a Roman judge, named Pilate, but Pilate did not find anything wrong with him. To protect himself, he asked the jury people who they wanted to be set free-Jesus Christ or Barbarras. Barbarras was a man guilty of other crimes, but I am not sure what they were. Pilate was a crafty man, and knew the jury would say that they wanted Jesus set free, but the Jewish priests bribed the members of the jury, and the jury then said they wanted Jesus crucified.
118-I’m sorry, I will go post that on the evolution thread.
0
0
102-Sorry I post so much, but I forgot to mention this. As a Christian, and I know this belongs on evolution, but since you brought it up, I might as well talk about it. So as I was saying, as a Christian, I do not believe that evolution is real!
I also forgot to say that if you want proof that Jesus was real and that he really was crucified, read Egeria’s Diary. It is a real diary of a Spanish woman named Egeria who took a pilgrimmage to Jerusalem and the Holy Lands. At least read some excerpts! It is so cool! It proves Jesus was the true Son of GOD!!!!!!!
0
0
122- How does what some crazy old lady wrote in her diary prove that Jesus is the Son of God?
Face it, Christians. There is no PROOF that Jesus was the Son of God. If there was, it wouldn’t be a FAITH, now would it? If there was PROOF, EVERYONE WOULD BE A CHRISTIAN!!
Athiests of the world, unite!
0
0
19- Finally, someone who recognizes the evil of Christianity.
Religion Lists- There are a lot of athiests on this blog! Doesn’t that show you how athiests throng to a cultured media blog…. thing, and how christians just generally stay away? Except for you christian guys… I don’t have anything against you, but there are more than a billion christians. There are about a million athiests. There are almost as many athiests on this thread as christians, even though christians are WAY more populous! What’s that say to you???
I’m NOT trying to convert anyone.
You know, “X” was an ancinet abbreviation for Christ. From now on, i’ll call christians “X-ans” for short.
0
0
114- And that’s still the situation today. Rome *is* the church. The Vatican has an extremely large amount of power, while the X-an nations of the world just grovel and obey. Do you realize that the church’s policy since 188-something has been that the Pope cannot make any mistakes whatsover? Is he a *gasp* GOD ON EARTH or something?????? That violates your “1-god in 3-persons” thingy! (Or maybe its in 4-persons?!?) Do you realize that the church’s position until 1976 was that all Jews were guilty forever for something their ancestors may or may not have done (crucifying Jesus) and that they should suffer horribly??? What kind of barbaric religion is that?????
Also, X-an kids at my school are jerks.
COMMON X-AN MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT ATHIESTS ARE HERE CORRECTED:
-Athiests DO NOT worship Satan.
-Athiests DO NOT burn Bibles.
-Athiests DO NOT have mental issues.
-Athiests DO NOT believe in nothing.
-Athiests ARE NOT demons from hell sent to torment “good, law-abiding” X-ans.
-Athiests ARE cool.
0
0
Cmon worship this , pagan people!
hahahahaaa
0
0
LoA (125),
Atheists, however, should learn to spell “atheist.”
A few other misconceptions: non-Catholic Christians (who make up about 50% of Christians worldwide) do not obey the Pope, and the Catholic church has no power over them. Within the Catholic church, the doctrine of papal infallibility does not mean that the Pope never makes any mistakes whatsoever. It means that they believe he is always right whenever he makes a definitive statement about religious matters — something no Pope has done since 1950. You can read about it in Wikipedia’s “Papal Infallibility” article.
0
0
Happy Good Friday, everyone! I don’t have any school today because most people would be at church anyway, so they (the school board) decided to not have school on Good Friday. Yay! Ooh, and Happy Easter in advance.
0
0
121- I’ve always heard that Barrabas was “guilty of murder and worse”
128- yeah, this is the first good friday that we’ve gotten off from school for as long as I can remember, but no one is ever there on good friday so we don’t get anything done when we do have school
0
0
Donaldo- You refuse to change your views despite clear proof they are wrong. Historically, there is no evidence to support your claim that the Jews were responsible for Jesus’ death. If you have not done so, please read the letter I posted in post 62. After, If you still maintain that the Jews killed Jesus, I would like you to look at this in a different light. If, as you claim, Jesus was put on trial in a jewish court, it probably was the Sanhedrin, correct? And was it not true that blasphemy was a crime in this court? And did Jesus not commit blasphemy by claiming he was the son of god under the law of the time? Therefore, the trial was fair and just. If today someone were to claim this, as a few claim they are reincarnations of Jesus, would you not consider them mentally unstable? And if a crowd were so easily swayed in a decision that would mean a man’s life, Jesus was not very good at his job, was he? I’m sorry if this sounds like I’m attacking your faith, but it is seriously offensive that anyone could believe this nonsense.
0
0
Haha…last year on Good Friday, my brother broke his arm…naturally, he picked a day when most hospitals in our area were closed, and of course it had to be the day before a weekend, so they would be closed for another two days…luckily, they didn’t have to re-break it…oy, that was a hassle.
0
0
112: Wouldn’t that be Pascha (Easter)?
117: All Christians don’t believe that. Here’s a new concept: maybe God made people using evolution, like a tool. There was a really neat article in Discover about the lady who discovered red blood cells in dinosaur bones. She’s a born-again Christian I could really identify with (now there’s a first). She was talking about how it makes God all the more powerful if He created everything through such a complicated process. It’s mind-blowing to imagine the depths of the great plan.
123: Well, you’re half right. Religion is all about faith. It’s sacreligious to try to find “proof” of God, which is also why I do not at all support creationists who try to twist science. This was also brought up in the article I mentioned. But if there were proof of everything Christians believed, I don’t think everyone would be Christian. First, a religion isn’t just about history, it’s about ideas. How can you prove something like morals and ethics. If every event in the Bible was proved to be factually accurate, there would still be people with different beliefs.
124: “christians just generally stay away”? Please stop stereotyping. It’s not appreciated on the blog. There are many intellectual Christians.
0
0
And just so you know, there are half as many atheists as there are Christians on our list.
Not that I think it means much. It’s just demographics.
0
0
Small Question- What is Good Friday? I’m an atheist, so I don’t know.
0
0
134: The day Jesus was crucified.
0
0
125-You must remember that Peter, one of Jesus’ deciples was the first Pope. He is not ‘God on earth’ he is the leader of the Christian church. Since, Christians belive christianity is the “right” religion (why wouldnt they?) we belive the Pope is kind of like Jesus’ messenger. He is NOT God. And in 1976, the church was run mainly by the aligarchs, who were behind the Pope.
124- WE DO NOT STAY AWAY!! Maybe not as many Christians subscribe to Muse.
0
0
103-Just a clarification;Christianity did spread first in the Roman Empire. Catholicism is just a certain form of Christianity. There are many different types of Christians.
0
0
123-Egeria took a pilgrimmage only about a century after Jesus’s death. She saw Golgatha, which is the place where Jesus was put on the cross, and she visited places where Jesus taught his disciples. You cannot say that she is crazy, until you read her diary!!!
134-Good Friday is the day that Jesus was crucified. It is three days before Easter, because in the Bible it says Jesus was dead for three days, and then he rose again. The day he rose again is what is now called Easter. And now, I have a question for you. How do you define Atheists? Is it people who just don’t believe in a god? Or is it just people who are opposed to just Christianity?
130-I am not trying to offend your religion by saying they crucified Jesus. Read my post 121. It clarifies it. I made a mistake and said that Jeus was put on trial in the Jewish court, but really the priests bribed the jury to say that Jesus was guilty. You must remember that, in Roman times, they did have a modern court system. Also, to answer your question, yes, if someone was walking around claiming that they were Jesus reincarnated, I would think they were mentally unstable. This is because in Revelations, the last book of the Bible, it says that Jesus will appear in a flash of light, and save all those who believe in Hm, and then, the world will end. Scientists do not believe the Earth will be destroyed for another 6 billion years. OK?
0
0
123-NO! If there was proof that Jesus was the Son of God(which there is), then not everyone would be Christians. There would still be those few out there who refuse to believe that he was the Son of God. Think of Hitler. We have proof that what he did to the world was wrong. But that doesn’t keep neo-Nazi groups from starting up, does it? There are still people who think that he was right.
0
0
117-You may be right! It’s just that, in the Bible it says that the first humans/humanoid creatures were Adam and Eve, so you may be right! I really like that idea that it would make him all the more powerful making such a complex system! Thank you for posting that!
0
0
Whoops, I wrote 117, but that is my post! I meant to say 132. Sorry!
0
0
139. LofA is right. If you could prove religion it wouldn’t be religion…thats why someone who follows religion BELIEVES or has FAITH.. (And since when did we PROVE what Hitler did was wrong??!!)
0
0
Oh, great, suddenly we have people supporting Nazism (or at least questioning whether killing millions is wrong). Do you know how offensive that statement is?
0
0
(123, 124, 125) Okay I feel the need to straighten you out here to help you. If you continue to state that Christians are evil you’re going to continue to get crap from those kids. Plain and simple. They sound really passionate (in some of the wrongs ways, but oh well) about their religion so if you go around saying it’s evil they’ll go right back and say you’re evil. Set an example as an atheist and show them you’re a good person, which is what they should be doing anyways as Christians.
Also, MuseBlog is not exactly a high cultured media blog. O_o You see what you’re doing? Exactly what fundamental religious types do, state the virtues of what they believe and only the pitfalls of other religions. IT’S A VICIOUS CYCLE don’t perpetuate it.
Also, as I am technically Catholic, I feel the need to tell you that the Catholic Church’s nature has always been more ceremonial. We don’t hold mass worships of the Pope or anything weird, he’s a symbolic figurehead as far as I’m concerned. And people criticize what he does just as much as the next person, even my little old Catholic granny who wouldn’t hurt a fly. D:
(138) Atheists are by definition people who don’t believe in any god or divine power. It’s not so much an opposition to Christianity (that sounds too aggressive) but more an real and honest belief that there is no god or God, if you will.
0
0
143. You need to read more carefully.
I think Hitler was a terrible, messed up person and anyone who followed him was/is also messed up. I also have relatives who died in concentration camps. I don’t support him, never have, and never will (and never said I did either).
All I said was that you can’t PROVE what he did was wrong because there is no way to prove right vs. wrong. It, like religion, is what people simply belief.
0
0
I dont think my religion is sexist and if some people have a problem with it they can at least state it calmly. Not every single Muslim in the world agrees with Taliban, in fact most of the Muslims I know think that they are so misguided they shouldnt even be qualified as true Muslims.
0
0
For those of you who are atheists, what do you believe in? I’m just curious.
And for those of you who are pagans, what do you worship?
0
0
142-Well lets put it this way. If you were one of the 6mil Jews he killed by torture, gas, or starvation, would you aggree with him? Hitler destroyed gazillions of peoples lives, harmed even more, and left an impression on the world. That impression was not a good one. I also have relations who have died in concentration camps. Hitler also harmed homo’s and gypsies, not just Jews. I think Musketeer#5 is right. People who follow Hitler is/was messed up.
Just a factoid here, did you know that Hitler actually wanted to be an artist, and his dad forced him into politics? How different would this world be if Hitler had become a new Michaelangelo??
0
0
(145) The problem is in your example. You’re talking philosophy where most people see history; I understand your meaning but few people are going to say that Hitler was right.
(146) Thank you for saying that. I’m not Muslim, but I think more people should know that just because the aspect of your religion they’re exposed to is a bad side, it doesn’t mean it is as a whole. This goes for people who think all Christianity is a bunch of zealots as well, or people who think all atheists hate Christians. There’s more to belief than meets the eye.
(I hope no one replies with “BUT CHRISTIANS ARE ALL ZEALOTS/ALL ATHEISTS ARE JERKS/ALL MUSLIMS HATE US!!11” because that would only prove your narrowminded tendencies).
0
0
149-aren’t all religions narrowminded in some way or the other?
oh yeah, i decided to revisit the MB and see what you all were up to while i was away(haven’t been on for a week! yo, watup!)
it seems to be a big issue as to who killed jesus. i would agree with the statement that the romans killed him but the jews antagonized it. that does not mean that i am bigoted towards jews. my religion teaches that the present generation is not going to hell for the sins of the last! jews are people also. i think that in a general sense, people are more important than any thing else.
to people of my religion, good friday and easter are times of celebration because the son of god died for the sins of the world.
fs-i am not going to start another mud-slinging fight in this blog, so lets all praise the lord(oh shoot, you don’t believe in a god. wateva!)
i believe that evolution is unbiblical. i believe that god created the whole world in 6 24-hour days and rested on the 7th as written in the bible. if you claim that “days” is purely objective to what god meant, why can you believe every other thing in the bible? wouldn’t that not also be purely objective?
well, glad to be back on the blog! greetings and pies to everyone!
0
0
Does it honestly matter what religion you are so long as you believe in God?
I mean, I’m a Methodist Christian and all but Im not going around condemning people not of my religion….
I can see where Aethists vs. Uh..Everyone else would come in conflict
0
0
47- you’re wrong! the Jews took Jesus to the Romans because they could not find a law that would allow them to kill him. the romans DID have a law. it was something like anyone who rebells against the king dies. The Romans were scared and did not want to kill him. The Jews forced it upon the Romans that Jesus should die, so he was killed. *note that Jesus Christ had the worst death in history*
0
0
151- ABSOLUTLY!
fist of all what do you believe? how many gods do you believe in?
if you are TRUELY a christan (most people who claim they are aren’t) do you believe that you are a sinner and need to be saved? do you believe that pure faith is enough to save you? do you believe that Jesus is God and he died for ALL of your sins?
i don’t understand how someone could think that by just believing in god will save you. The devil belives in god, but he isn’t saved. he doesn’t think that he needs to be saved, and he isn’t
0
0
(153) Since when was Jesus God? Last I heard, Jesus was the Son of God. Now, I see how you could read that he is in a way God if we look at it in certain ways, but that is not what the Bible teaches.
You say that pure faith is enough to save you, and then contradict yourself by saying believing isn’t enough. Then what is enough? I hardly think the devil believes in God the way people here are saying. He believes in the way that you or I believe the sky is blue, but not in a religious sense.
0
0
143(Julieb)-For once, I am agreeing with you! That is so offending, Musketeer! I know there is no proven, accurate scale of right vs. wrong, but you are saying that killing millions of people may be right, just because there is no scale that can prove it? That is pure evil. Juat about everyone in the world would agree he was evil, and yet you don’t admit it because there is no balance of the two!
0
0
Muslims are not evil terrorists! I know muslims and they are very kind! The only Muslims you see on TV are extremists who are taking their religion so far, that they end up going against their teachings! I am not Muslim. I am Christian, but I am standing up for them!
0
0
152-The Romans were not scared of Jesus, they simply could not find anything wrong with him-just a clarification.
0
0
145- I admit, you’re right. You cannot prove something is right or wrong. Right and wrong stem from primeval instincts on the survival of the species and cultural views. However, because it does the species no good to kill 11 million of it’s members and no culture has, as far as I know, ever endorsed mass murder (with exceptions for special war-related offenses, which would include Nazis, which is why the figure below is not 100%) we can look back and pretty much expect that 99.9% of humans will agree that what Hitler did was wrong.
0
0
I agree with Muskateer’s view that there is no scale on how to prove how good or bad something is, but the analogy was bad.
just to clarify something for all Atheists and non-Christians, there is more to Christianity than the Catholic Church and the Pope! See post 127!
What’s the general feeling about reformations in the Christian faith with anyone who feels that the Catholic Church is corrupt? There’s Protestant and Greek Orthodox too.
0
0
159: Well, just to clarify, Orthodoxy is not a reformation of Catholicism. Christianity had no denominations until the Catholics broke off.
0
0
156-who ever said annything about muslims? muslims on the media may have done very evil stuff(i think we’ll all agree that terrorism is evil) but that does not mean all muslims are evil. christians have done some very evil stuff(inquisition and others) but that does not make christians evil.
okay, Jesus is God. to get that you have to understand the makeup of god. it is said in the bible that god is a trinity. God the father, god the son, and god the holy spirit. its kinda like how if you get a bowl of water and split it up between three glasses. thay are all different aspects of the same bowl of water. jesus is one of gods aspects.
153-when you said “if you are TRUELY a christan (most people who claim they are aren’t) do you believe that you are a sinner and need to be saved? do you believe that pure faith is enough to save you? do you believe that Jesus is God and he died for ALL of your sins?” i would answer yes to all three questions. faith is enough to save you. what you have to have faith in is not GOD. you have to have faith that the only way to god is through jesus. “i am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the father except through me”-john 14:6. this is a direct quote from the gospel, jesus’ exact words.
well, thats all
0
0
150-religions, maybe, but not necessarily their followers
155- that’s not what she’s saying. she’s saying there’s no way to PROVE it, even if it is the truth.
I agree with everyone who is defending Moslems, but no one actually said anything against it, did they?
0
0
161: Actually, just for clarification, the Bible does not say that God is a “trinity”; the word is found nowhere in the Bible. That does not, however, mean that it is not true. For more on this, I suggest you read the book “Velvet Elvis” by Rob Bell.
0
0
The Bible does state that God is part of the holy trinity. Reread yours just to make sure! *snickers silently*
156-did you read my post correctly? I never said Muslims were evil! And I might have sounded random, but that was just in case that somehow the topic came up, so I wanted to settle it once and for all, before it even started!
0
0
D_Q is correct that the word “trinity” does not appear in the Bible. It was coined by a theologian we call Tertullian around A.D. 200.
0
0
158- so, following your logic, most of the world’s population would agree that what America is doing in Iraq is wrong, maybe we haven’t killed 11 million people, but do numbers count when it comes down to killing innocent people?…but I don’t think 99.9% of people think what we are doing in Iraq is wrong simply because bush still has a little approval rating…(30%, i think…) If you look at hat Hitler did 70 years ago and what bush is doing now there isn’t a whole lot of difference…and I expect people to argue this, so… go ahead
0
0
166: Hasn’t this been discussed like 5 million times already, on the Hot Topics thread, among other places? Plus, this has nothing at all to do with religion. You’re talking politics now.
0
0
167- yeah, this is politics, but both wars that i mentioned were related to religion. Hitler killed the Jews while he was trying to “help” the christians and we are killing Muslims as we try to “help” them end their Sunni-Shiite battles (and create peace in general). So the wars i talked about did have to do with religion, and we were talking about the idea of right and wrong, so maybe if I rephrased it, my point was that religion gets into politics and plays a big part in political affairs now, as it did in the past. Also, while the Holocaust is almost universally agreed upon now that is was completely bad, my point was that a similar thing is happening now and people aren’t all against it like we are for the Holocaust. So this concept of “good and bad” isn’t necessarily clear.
wow, that was kinda complicated… does it make sence?
0
0
166- Most of the world does. And Bush’s approval rating is going down every week, I don’t think it’s even 30% anymore. And it’s pretty obvious that this administration wasn’t trying to “help” anyone but themselves. But that’s politics and does not belong on the religions thread. BTW, anybody who doesn’t think this war is a complete disaster and “wrong” is a moron. Not an opinion, a fact.
0
0
I don’t think religion is a good thing. It’s the cause of most wars. Also, the bible contradicts itself to much. A supreme deity wouldn’t create something he didn’t intend to use, but explain the philistines, amelkites, egyptians, persians, babylonians, muslims, nazis, etc.
It doesn’t make sense. I prefer philosophy.
0
0
*reads article on koko the monkey* *is freaked out when he sees this* “Koko has been involved in several sexual harassment lawsuits.[4] At least three former employees, all female, have claimed that they were pressured into showing their breasts to Koko. They alleged that Dr. Patterson encouraged the behavior, often interpreted Koko’s signs as requests for nipple display, and let them know that their job would be in danger if they “did not indulge Koko’s nipple fetish.” Koko has been known to playfully grab both male and female nipples without warning or provocation. Dr. Patterson claims that Koko uses the word “nipple” to refer to humans.[5]”
0
0
154-
Jesus is God.
“The Father himself judges no one, but has assigned all judgement to the Son, so that all men may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who refuses to honor the Son refuses to honor the Father who sent him.” John 5:22-23
and also
“The One who went me is whith me. He has not deserted me since I always do what pleases him.” John 8:29
0
0
154-
and:
“Jesus answered: ‘My kingdom does not belong to this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my subjects would be fighting to save me from being handed over to the Jews. As it is, my kingdom is not here.’ ” John 18:36
0
0
170-
God created everything and everyone for a reason: to love Him. and religion doesn’t cause wars; evil and hate cause wars. those who start “religious” wars are trying to do what is good in their eyes, but no violence is just or right. just look at Ghandi or MLK jr. they didn’t cause wars, but they still worked for justice. i think everyone can learn from these peaceful rebels.
0
0
166 & 169:
while I disapprove of the war, everyone has their own opinion. for instance, 169 is being stubborn and trying to force her opinions down people’s throats. and 166: bush is nothing like hitler. in hindsight, everyone has 20/20 vision, but imagine yourself in Bush’s shoes on sept. 11. what would you have done? how would you have run the war?
0
0
169- and people aren’t morons because they disagree with you. You’re like Dogbert in a Dilbert comic I read recently
and I quote.
dogbert: from now on, i will dismiss morons with a ‘bah’ and a wave of my paw
dilbert: just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t make them a moron, dogbert
dogbert: Bah!
hee hee dilbert is hilarious
0
0
Yay for Piggy! Thanks for coming in and saving the day for the Christians! Now I see why you need to memorize bible verses!
May God bless you all in this glorious season of Easter.
0
0
175- I’m not discussing this on the religions thread. Feel free to repeat what you posted on the hot topics thread and read my calm, dignified, and rational retort. Meanwhile, I will do the mature thing and ignore your spiteful and frankly, ignorant, remarks.
Pesach is finally over, Thank God. My parents (not religious, neither am I, but since it’s only been a year and a half since my bas mitzvah and I feel obligated to try it for a while) were taunting me with bread all week. Believe me, I have christian friends who gave up things for lent, and I don’t think a single one of them had it half as bad as a carboholic suffering from withdrawal. Yom HaShoah is coming up soon, there are a few people organizing a ceremony at my school.
0
0
When did Jesus say he was the son of god? In actual words?
Depending on the answer to this question, I may have another one…
0
0
Jesus is the Son of God. In the Bible, during the Transfiguration, God says to the three disciples-Peter, James, and John-that Jesus came with, “This is my Son, whom I love;With Him, I am well pleased. Listen to Him!”
0
0
152 (hanako)- Quick fact-check here.
Uno: Maybe I just skipped over this, because it’s hard to believe it hasn’t been mentioned yet, but Jesus was a Jew. He and his followers considered themselves to be a sect of Judaism, I think. It wasn’t until the religion won more converts that it became known as a separate entity.
Not sure what that proves, if anything. Just pointing it out.
Jesus did not have “the worst death in history.” Crucifixion was a fairly common Roman form of execution. If you’re calling his death the worst, then you have to lump in a bunch of petty criminals who were given the same punishment.
0
0
(170) Not all religions. Few religions have been fought in the name of say, Shintoism. Though I do think Buddhism is more of a way of life than a religion (but isn’t that what religion is?) very few if any wars have been waged in the name of that religion.
(172) It states clearly to honor Jesus as they honor the Father, thus affirming they are separate entities. I understand than in a otherworldly, hard to describe sense that they are in ways one, but for all intents and purposes it appears they are separate.
0
0
179- he didn’t literally say it, that was what the Pharisees said he said. He did allude to being joined with God many times.
171-did you really need to post that?
0
0
175- even though your question wasn’t for me, I have a good answer to it, but if you wish to continue this “debate” I think we should move to the hot topics thread (oh, i didn’t see #178…so, I agree, but you could have been nicer because i know people that think stuff like that and it’s not because they’re stupid, they just don’t see and hear the same facts and news I (we?) hear. coming from someone living in an incredibly “red” county, lets discuss this calmly on the hot topics thread, making sure not to offend people that don’t want to argue and/or be offended)
181- i think Jesus’s death was considered the worst because that was the only time God ever turned his back on someone, but then god did because Jesus was carrying all of the sins of the world. After he died, Jesus went to hell for 3 days, even though he was completely innocent of anything.
0
0
178- not to sound stupid, but where is the hot topics thread? Is there a more recent one than 2007.3? I can’t post on that one so…i’m a little clueless…(I would put an embarassed face here but I don’t know how to do one so…just pretend)
184-does the bible really say that jesus went to hell for three days? i don’t think so. criminal-“Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom” Jesus-“i tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.”—-luke 23:42-43
that was only a few moments before he died. i think that whenhe was on the crosshe also said right before he gave up his spirit “It is Finished” that implies that the task was already done. i beleive that he went to heaven then.
oh, when i said that the bible siad the god was a trinity, i did not mean a direct quote. the bible really does say that god is threesome-matthew 17:5″this is my son,whom i love; with him i am well pleased.” matthew 28:19 “therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”–there is where we get the trinity theology.
why are we talking about the iraq war? isn’t that POLOTICS! well, my opinion of the war is that Bush went into iraq w/ all the best intentions…..but the plan fell flat. oh,i don’t think that this is a religious war. i think that Bush went in to counterattack the terrorist organizations. i think that what osama bin laden and saddam huessein were doing was wrong. you cannot rule a nation by fear. the iraqi people were happy w/ america when we got rid of them. but now…..what we are doing in there is not helping them.
0
0
go piggy!!!!!!!!!!!
0
0
This is awful. I don’t have time to answer and tear the religious arguments to pieces, but as soon as I have time, expect it. In the meantime, I as a pagan worship the nordic pantheon. Atheism as a word indicates the absence of gods.
0
0
189-why is it mandatory with you to tear arguments to pieces? just asking. i wonder if it is because you can’t stand to even consider something that you don’t believe possible? i’m pretty sure that even you are a new beleiver in Asatru? you just joined on Jan. 22, 2007, right? don’t you also want to promote peace on this blog? isn’t tearing arguments to pieces not very peace-promoting? well, whatever you want to accomplish you can accomplish by peacably coming up with a peaceful response to every statemant you believe wrong on this blog, right? if you can’t, why even argue because whatever we say you will dogmatically disagree.
thats all
0
0
I don’t want to promote peace on the blog, I want to break the spell of evil dogma. I find christianity morally negative and see it as my moral duty to argue against it. And the fact that I am able to tear the religious arguments to pieces shows I’m right.
0
0
Oh, and if someone says something as idiotic as “the parting of the red sea is also believable because it is an act of god” deserves to be torn to pieces verbally. Also because sentences like that have modern europeans shaking their heads.
0
0
192-do you beleive that the Nordic gods can perform miracles? do you beleive that they are deitys at all? well, if so, it is the same with my god. i firmly beleive that he can and will perform miracles! maybe he’ll even arrange it so you can beleive in him! anything is possible with god-thats even a Bible verse. i believe that if my god can create the universe-which i do believe-than he can control any event in the universe!
oh, i think someone asked why god created free will at all. well,if god didn’t than he would have a bunch of witless denizens following him! he created man in his image, so he also gave them a will, just like he has.
0
0
187: and what exactly was Osama and Hussein doing? Allow yourself to be corrected by someone who actually reads the Guardian Weekly and doesn’t feed off Fox News:
1)Osama Bin Laden has NO relations with Iraq or Hussein. Neither does Al-Qaida have any connections to Iraq or Hussein. Bush, on the other hand, has overt connections to Dick Cheney.
2)Saddam Hussein was not responsible for 9/11 and is not a terrorist. Hell, they didn’t even find WMDs over there. Hussein was NOT a threat.
The commonly accepted theories over here the following. Bush invaded Iraq for the following reasons: Avenge Daddys honor, and to get a bunch of oil for his rich oil company campaign donors.
0
0
191 – FrigidSymphony, I’ve heard enough about how bad my religion is. Perhaps you could tell me how good your religion is so maybe I’ll want to convert instead of just getting angry? Here are a few small things I have heard from my pastor. They make sense to me, and I think they will make sense to you too.
~~~evangelizing to follow~~~
~~~please don’t think I’m forcing you to become Christian~~~
Someone said a while back, I think it was you, “With all this suffering in the world, god must not be doing a good job planning people’s lives.” Well maybe god doesn’t want to make this utopia, or heaven on earth. Think about it. If god stopped everything that would lead to evil, we’d have a heck of a world. Every time someone would hit a baseball toward a window, the ball would stop in midair. Evil people would never be born, so they’d never have a chance to go to heaven. And maybe we’re the ones who are not doing good enough. If people are getting tortured, maybe we need to work harder toward making this world a better place.
If the serpent had never tempted with the apple, if Eve had said no, if Adam had said no, then everybody would be guaranteed to go to heaven, everybody would praise God’s name, every tounge would confess the Jesus Christ is lord and every knee would bow in his name. That sounds great, doesn’t it? But look closely: if everybody always is a perfect Christian, they aren’t really. They would be born that way, they would have no way of doing otherwise. In other words, they wouldn’t have a choice.
This way, people have a choice as to whether they want to be Christians or not. God knows what choice we are going to make, but he still gives us the choice. And if some people say no, or no is the only choice given to them because yes has not yet been persented to them, then it is the ones who say yes’s duty to help them along the path toward salvation. Of course, if people force the person to choose yes, then they aren’t really choosing yes, as they had no choice. Rather, the people need to present the truth so that the person sees that saying yes is a good idea.
~~~short little Christian lecture over~~~
(GAPAs, please don’t snip this for people being too persuasive. Instead of saying other religons are garbage, I’m simply promoting my religion. I think that’s a better way to do things than to insult people about what they follow.)
0
0
187- the apostles creed-“he descended into hell, on the third day he arose again from the dead”
FS- christians have the right to their own views just like you do. What if we found it morally wrong for you to critisize a religion that you don’t even understand (ex things you say about christianity aren’t true) I don’t mind arguing with you using facts and all. I’ll listen (read) what you say and try to undersand, but I ask that you do the same. I don’t understand what you find morally wrong about christianity, the main idea is the golden rule (do onto others as you would have done to you) what’s morally wrong with that? And just to clear things up, christianity is a religion, it can’t be held responsible for the actions of people that claimed to follow this religion (ie the crusades) those things I’ll agree were morally wrong, but they also went against the teachings of the christian bible
0
0
The Norse gods don’t perform miracles, I don’t believe they perform miracles, and there is no “holy text” that says they do. We have the Havamal, which is basically a bunch of advice under the form of a poem. And the norse religion has not caused millions of deaths throughout two millenia.
195: but in that case, god allows evil to spread throughout the world, and causes lots of innocent deaths. Either god does not exist, or if he does, he is evil.
0
0
195-i think that your post is the only one making any sense. in fact, that is probably the wisest, make-sense thing i have heard all week!
hold on fridgey, this is a political discussion going on, not a religious one. save it for the hot topics thread please. i was stating my opinion in reply to another post, not trying to start a pro-war anti-war argument. lets limit this to religion!
thank you
0
0
197 – “but in that case, god allows evil to spread throughout the world, and causes lots of innocent deaths. Either god does not exist, or if he does, he is evil.” Well then, those evil people will get punished dreadfully for their hideous sins in all eternity and those innocent souls will rejoice in heaven forever! God makes sure it works out nicely in the end. (I emphasize “in the end”.)
All the millions of deaths from the two millenia are just radical Christains going crazy! Something’s wrong with them because one of the highest rules in Christianity is don’t murder ! Same with the radical Muslims and 9/11!
198 – Thank you!
0
0
196-is the apostles creed in the bible, or was it written afterward?
yes, if anyone was murdering in gods name, they obviously weren’t walkiing in the faith. in the ten commandments
Commandments:
I am your Lord and God
You shall have no other gods before Me
You shall not make for yourself an idol
You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God
Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy
Honor your parents
You shall not murder
You shall not commit adultery
You shall not steal
You shall not bear false witness
You shall not covet
0
0
I don’t want to get started on the war again but 194-Hussein was a threat! He massacred his own people in 1981!
197-God does not like sin in the world! The reason hatred is in the world is because the world belongs to Satan! The devil! The enemy of God! When Adam and Eve bit the forbiddden fruit, they became knowledgeable of not just good, but also evil! Therefore, sin entered the world and God could not do anything to stop it!
0
0
195-THANK YOU!!!! THAT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE!!!
0
0
201-you’re absolutey right.
Did God Create Evil?
———————————————————————-
The university professor challenged his students with this question:
“Did God create everything that exists? ”
A student bravely replied, “Yes, he did!”
“God created everything?”, the professor asked.
“Yes sir”, the student replied.
The professor answered, “If God created everything, then God created evil since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are, then God is evil.”
The professor was quite pleased with himself and boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth.
Another student raised his hand and said, “Can I ask you a question professor?”
“Of course”, replied the professor.
The student stood up and asked, “Professor, does cold exist?”
The professor replied, “Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?”
The students snickered at the young man’s question.
The young man replied, “In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat.
Everybody or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body, or matter, have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (- 460 degrees F) is the total absence of heat. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no heat.
The student continued. “Professor, does darkness exist?”
The professor responded, “Of course it does.”
The student replied, “Once again you are wrong sir. Darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light, we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton’s prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn’t this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present.”
Finally the young man asked the professor. “Sir, does evil exist?”
Now uncertain, the professor responded, “Of course, as I have already said. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man’s inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.”
To this the student replied, “Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God.
God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God’s love present in his heart. It’s like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.”
The professor sat down.
The young man’s name — Albert Einstein
————————————————————————–
sorry for the long post, but i think that this pretty much explains the whole evil issue. i thought it was cool.
0
0
The reasoning described in the story goes back at least to the Catholic theologian Thomas Aquinas, but the useful urban-legend site Snopes.com says there’s no reason to connect it with Albert Einstein.
193- ‘it is as easy for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven as it is for a camel to walk through the eye of a needle. with man this is impossible, but with God, all things are possible.’
197- God is not ALLOWING the suffering, people are causing the suffering. God is the BALM of suffering, not the cause of it.
0
0
Hey Frigid Symphony- Instead of telling other people why their religion is wrong and how there is no proof in the world that it could be true, tell me and every other Christian on this blog why your religion is true? What historical evidence do you have that proves your religion true? And don’t say that you have your Havamal-thingy because we have the Bible and Egeria’s Diary and other books that have way more proof than that!!!
Also, I’m not sure if this belongs on this thread or on Hot Topics, so I chose this one. I decided to rant on “The Da Vinci Code” because I felt like it. First of all, Dan Brown admitted that he was an atheist and anti-Christian, so that labels out that he wrote this book with praising God in mind. Also, the book that he relies on: the Book of Mary Magdalene was not written by Mary Magdalene, but by some blasphemic idiots. I don’t remember what they are called(I will ask my mom-she knows), but it was written centuries after her death by these people who were committing blasphemy by saying she had babies with Jesus, because the group of people historians believe wrote it didn’t even believe in having ,well, you know. Also, how can people believe that what he wrote in his book is true and that it actually happen when he wrote it. It is a fictional novel! It may have some ancient history in it, but 98% of it is fiction! So it can’t be true if he made it up!
OK that is all.
0
0
shoot! That wasn’t all supposed to be bold! What am i doing wrong?
0
0
203 – Oh my gosh! That makes so much sense! I’d never thought about that before! Thank you!
You need to leave space inbetween, like [b] this [/b] , not [b] this [/b]. See the period next to the [/b]? If anything touches any of them they probably won’t work.
(Obviously you need to substitute angle brackets for the []’s.)
0
0
Thank you all, Christian MuseBloggers, for posting such good posts. I feel very confident now about my religion.
0
0
I am 1 quarter Jewish, 1 quarter Christian, 1 quarter Universalist, and 1 quarter Atheist. But I go to a Unitarian Universalist church.
0
0
First of all, I cannot prove that Asatru is real. So what? I’m not looking for converts, and my religion is NOT one that has a stranglehold over a great part of the world and brainwashes children. Christianity does, and it abuses that power, causing countless evils throughout the world. I can follow this religion with a clean conscience, knowing that hypocritical wars weren’t started in Odin’s name. Yes, the Vikings were violent, but the raiding was forced on to them by Scandinavian life. Overcrowded, cold environment. Had to leave. And anyway, Odin was the god of wisdom and logic first, his link to war came second. And the Havamal is not proof of his existence, it’s a poem that they say was dictated by him. The original author is unknown, and I expect that it was originally transmitted orally. You can find a transcription of the Havamal on the asatru alliance website.
Some more points:
If God is all powerful, than why can’t he kick Satan’s arse? And anyway, Satan is not who you think he is. The word comes from yiddish and means “adversary”, so Satan is the adversary of the Church, everything that Christianity isn’t. So Satanism encourages self-indulgence, and it is basically a form of ethical egoism based on Nietschiean and Machiavellian philosphy. Satanism teaches to love those few around you who deserve it, and not to waste your love on everyone. Same for hatred. Satanism teaches that every man is god himself, as god comes from man, therefore satanists will do everything that is best for them. If, however, a satanist truly cares about someone else, then it will be in his or her interest to make that person happy. So ethical egoism contains altruistic and morally correct behaviour. Official satanism as preached by Anton LaVey’s Church of Satan and Aleister Crowley’s Abbey of Thelema has nothing to do with human sacrifices or violence, as the belief is that there is no afterlife, this is all we have, life is precious, enjoy it. Satanism does not worship Satan as a deity, but as a figure representing everything that is human. More info on Satanism on churchofsatan.com
If Satan exists, (which I don’t believe, as neither does God) then he is not the cause of evil. Evil is a human thing. Humans are evil. Morality does not come from supernatural beings. And it just so happens that the Church is a very big perpetrator in evil itself. Should I make a list? Crusades, witch burnings, heresy accusings (false, most of em), pagan massacres, false accusations unto the jewish people, etc… It just goes on and on.
And these people were not extremists, that was the accepted viewpoint. Almost every single person during the Crusades was firmly convinced that it was God’s Will, that they must kill the infidels. For some strange reason, the muslims believed that too…
The evil discussion attributed to Einstein is bollocks. You cannot measure Evil as you can heat, light or darkness. Evil has to do with the morality and human behaviour. Evil is only a tag he have invented to label that which to us seems morally incorrect. I refuse to believe tha Einstein (who was fervently against religion, by the way: he reasoned and reasoned about it, and it just didn’t make sense. This is historically accurate, Einstein was against Christianity. His iew of God was something a lot different) said this. It’s a feeble attempt to make religion sound ‘scientifical’, just like the chock-full-of-bullshit ‘intelligent design’ theory. Bloody americans…
About Dan Brown: I don’t think anyone actually believed it was true, about Jesus and Magdalene, but the historically accurate parts are those criticizing Christianity.
As for The Final Judgement being the answer to evil people, the problem is this: In all probability there is no heaven and hell, and saying that the guy who killed your friend is going to hell isn’t going to bring your friend back to life, or ease the suffering.
In conclusion, I sincerely detest the self-righteous, hypocritical, fear-mongering, power-seeking scum of mankind that calls itself the Church. But don’t worry, my hatred is also directed towards Islam.
0
0
And before anyone bashes Satanism without knowing bollocks about it, here are some rules:
The 9 Satanic Statements:
1)Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!
2)Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!
3)Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!
4)Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!
5)Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!
6)Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!
7)Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,†has become the most vicious animal of all!
8)Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!
9)Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!
The Eleven Satanic Rules Of The Earth
1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.
4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.
5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.
7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
9. Do not harm little children.
10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.
The Nine Satanic Sins
1. Stupidity—The top of the list for Satanic Sins. The Cardinal Sin of Satanism. It’s too bad that stupidity isn’t painful. Ignorance is one thing, but our society thrives increasingly on stupidity. It depends on people going along with whatever they are told. The media promotes a cultivated stupidity as a posture that is not only acceptable but laudable. Satanists must learn to see through the tricks and cannot afford to be stupid.
2. Pretentiousness—Empty posturing can be most irritating and isn’t applying the cardinal rules of Lesser Magic. On equal footing with stupidity for what keeps the money in circulation these days. Everyone’s made to feel like a big shot, whether they can come up with the goods or not.
3. Solipsism—Can be very dangerous for Satanists. Projecting your reactions, responses and sensibilities onto someone who is probably far less attuned than you are. It is the mistake of expecting people to give you the same consideration, courtesy and respect that you naturally give them. They won’t. Instead, Satanists must strive to apply the dictum of “Do unto others as they do unto you.†It’s work for most of us and requires constant vigilance lest you slip into a comfortable illusion of everyone being like you. As has been said, certain utopias would be ideal in a nation of philosophers, but unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately, from a Machiavellian standpoint) we are far from that point.
4. Self-deceit—It’s in the “Nine Satanic Statements†but deserves to be repeated here. Another cardinal sin. We must not pay homage to any of the sacred cows presented to us, including the roles we are expected to play ourselves. The only time self-deceit should be entered into is when it’s fun, and with awareness. But then, it’s not self-deceit!
5. Herd Conformity—That’s obvious from a Satanic stance. It’s all right to conform to a person’s wishes, if it ultimately benefits you. But only fools follow along with the herd, letting an impersonal entity dictate to you. The key is to choose a master wisely instead of being enslaved by the whims of the many.
6. Lack of Perspective—Again, this one can lead to a lot of pain for a Satanist. You must never lose sight of who and what you are, and what a threat you can be, by your very existence. We are making history right now, every day. Always keep the wider historical and social picture in mind. That is an important key to both Lesser and Greater Magic. See the patterns and fit things together as you want the pieces to fall into place. Do not be swayed by herd constraints—know that you are working on another level entirely from the rest of the world.
7. Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies—Be aware that this is one of the keys to brainwashing people into accepting something new and different, when in reality it’s something that was once widely accepted but is now presented in a new package. We are expected to rave about the genius of the creator and forget the original. This makes for a disposable society.
8. Counterproductive Pride—That first word is important. Pride is great up to the point you begin to throw out the baby with the bathwater. The rule of Satanism is: if it works for you, great. When it stops working for you, when you’ve painted yourself into a corner and the only way out is to say, I’m sorry, I made a mistake, I wish we could compromise somehow, then do it.
9. Lack of Aesthetics—This is the physical application of the Balance Factor. Aesthetics is important in Lesser Magic and should be cultivated. It is obvious that no one can collect any money off classical standards of beauty and form most of the time so they are discouraged in a consumer society, but an eye for beauty, for balance, is an essential Satanic tool and must be applied for greatest magical effectiveness. It’s not what’s supposed to be pleasing—it’s what is. Aesthetics is a personal thing, reflective of one’s own nature, but there are universally pleasing and harmonious configurations that should not be denied.
PENTAGONAL REVISIONISM:
In recent years, we’ve wasted far too much time explaining that Satanism has nothing to do with kidnapping, drug abuse, child molestation, animal or child sacrifice, or any number of other acts that idiots, hysterics or opportunists would like to credit us with. Satanism is a life-loving, rational philosophy that millions of people adhere to. Now we’re ready for something that goes quite a few steps beyond just explaining our principles. Every revisionist movement needs a set of goals/guidelines that are clear, concrete, and that will effect significant changes.
The following Five-Point Program reflects attitudes which allow others to decide whether they wish to align themselves with Satanism or not. Each is necessary for Satanic change to take place. When asked what we’re “doing,†here’s the answer:
1. Stratification—The point on which all the others ultimately rest. There can be no more myth of “equality†for all—it only translates to “mediocrity†and supports the weak at the expense of the strong. Water must be allowed to seek its own level without interference from apologists for incompetence. No one should be protected from the effects of his own stupidity.
2. Strict taxation of all churches—If churches were taxed for all their income and property, they’d crumble overnight of their own obsolescence, and the National Debt would be wiped out as quickly. The productive, the creative, the resourceful should be subsidized. So long as the useless and incompetent are getting paid, they should be heavily taxed.
3. No tolerance for religious beliefs secularized and incorporated into law and order issues—to re-establish “Lex Talionis†would require a complete overturning of the present in-justice system based on Judeo-Christian ideals, where the victim/defender has been made the criminal. Amnesty should be considered for anyone in prison because of his alleged “influence†upon the actual perpetrator of the crime. Everyone is influenced in what he or she does. Scapegoating has become a way of life, a means of survival for the unfit. As an extension of the Judeo-Christian cop-out of blaming the Devil for everything, criminals can gain leniency, even praise, by placing the blame on a convenient villain. Following the Satanic creed of “Responsibility to the responsible,†in a Satanic society, everyone must experience the consequences of his own actions—for good or ill.
4. Development and production of artificial human companions—The forbidden industry. An economic “godsend†which will allow everyone “power†over someone else. Polite, sophisticated, technologically feasible slavery. And the most profitable industry since T.V. and the computer.
5. The opportunity for anyone to live within a total environment of his or her choice, with mandatory adherence to the aesthetic and behavioral standards of same—Privately owned, operated and controlled environments as an alternative to homogenized and polyglot ones. The freedom to insularize oneself within a social milieu of personal well-being. An opportunity to feel, see, and hear that which is most aesthetically pleasing, without interference from those who would pollute or detract from that option.
This is the encapsulated version of the current thrust of Satanic advocacy. So when someone asks you, “Well, what do Satanists do?â€, you will be qualified to tell him.
0
0
215- I thought solipsism is the belief that you cannot prove anything exists outside of ones own self. And just pointing out one thing, the second “Judeo” should be taken out of point 3. Jews don’t believe in the existance of the devil. Otherwise, interesting; though slightly confusing.
0
0
I dont know much about church or anything becuase my family cant find a church that believes in the same religion we do near our town or anything, so if say something wrong or something i didnt mean to. Anyway, not to offend anyone or anything (and again i dont know very much about religion) but the other day my friend was talking about how she automatically doesnt trust people who are a certain religion just becuase they arent that religion. It made me really sad and mad becuase i knew lots of people who had that religion and if she met them she wouldnt trust them just becuase of their beliefs instead of getting to know them. sorry agian if i made a mistake.
0
0
217: what religion is this? I can’t comment if I don’t know what it is, and what its values are.
0
0
.. I thought the word “Satan” came from Hebrew, not Yiddish?
So what exactly does Asatru believe, anyway?
0
0
219: Sorry, you’re right, hebrew, not yiddish. Asatru is the belief in the Old Gods, the Norse Pantheon.
0
0
Frigid Symphony-We are not looking for converts either! But you have no right putting our religion down when you have no proof that your religion is better and true. Convince me that you have a better and real religion in which your “god” is real, and I might agree with you and stop defending Christianity, but until you have evidence that your “god” is real, then you have no right to say ours isn’t! Aren’t I right, GAPAs?
0
0
221: YOu completely miss the point. I don’t say that Asatru is truer than Christianity (even though I believe that). I am arguing that Christianity is an immoral, unethical, evil and violent religion that has done an incredible amount of damage to mankind throughout history. Most of the popes would be eligible for accusations for crimes against humanity today. And don’t go looking for help from the GAPAs, unless it’s to supply information. I have every right to criticize and put down Christianity, as it is a negative influence on our society. Do you even read my full posts, or do you stop as soon as you have something you can make a flimsy comeback with?
0
0
214, 215-not all Christians believe in Satan. I don’t.
0
0
Oh wow. Frigidsymphony’s posts are long. *braces self for impact* *goes and reads them*
OH……………….MY……………………….GOSH.
Let me quote:
“And it just so happens that the Church is a very big perpetrator in evil itself. Should I make a list? Crusades, witch burnings, heresy accusings (false, most of em), pagan massacres, false accusations unto the jewish people, etc… It just goes on and on.”
Now how many times have all the Christian MuseBloggers said that Christians are not proud of this and those people got Christianity wrong? That’s using the same dumb argument over and over again even though it has been widely discredited by MuseBloggers.
222 – Geez! You belive Christianity is an immoral, unethical, evil and violent religion? If you’ll look, sometimes Christians are violent (but see the above), but Jesus promoted peace and goodwill, he spread the good news, he healed the sick, cured the blind, and came to help mankind. Even you admitted on a previous thread that he was a peace-lover. You also said that his only fault was a divinity complex, so you must belive that everything else he did was perfect. So his teachings are true, they aren’t lies, and so on?
I find the post titled “Did God create evil?” to make very much sense, as evil only happens when we’re not doing something good. If you don’t belive that is morally correct, then so be it. I am probably just as stubborn as you are when it comes to changing religion. (Though maybe not…you recently changed from being a radical atheist to an astraur.)
I cannot spend all my time reaserching the bible coming up with rebuttals against your anti-christian statements. I have not had confirmation yet, so I don’t know as much about Christianity now, but I will in the future. Someday when I am further educated on the truth, I will maybe come back to answer. But for now, this is just a waste of my time.
One more thing: a few things in satanism sound pretty simaler to some things in christianity.
And by the way, I read your posts from front to back. I don’t skip a word.
Bye! I’m officially leaving this thread.
0
0
FS-I do read your posts from the beginning to the end. And I never said that you were trying to say that your religion was truer than Christianity(even though it isn’t). The truth is, the followers of your religion were vikings! And they caused more merciless pain and torture than anyone in the world! We have said multiple times that the Christians who inflicted pain were screwed-up idiots! They got the religion all wrong! Jesus was like MLK or Ghandi. He was a peace-lover, nonviolent. He would not hurt a living thing! You don’t even look at modern Christians. If you came to my church, you would see loving people who cared for each other. Heck! My mother even is the leader of the Knitting Circle! They knit shawls for widows, women who just had babies, and women who are recovering from cancer or some other disease! We love one another. In my Youth Group, we do not plot ways to kill people who aren’t Christian in an effort to take over the world! We study the Bible and worship God!
0
0
AHH! It still didn’t work!
0
0
Sorry for the triple post, but Frigid Symphony-Here is a reminder from the evolution thread: DON’T CUSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
0
0
ok, FS, I think I see what your getting at (maybe)
You are saying that in the past many people have killed others (and done other bad things) in the name of christianity, and that is why christianity is bad, because of what the religion has caused people to do.
am I right? if so,
the other MBers are arguing back that while it is true that bad things have been done in the name of Christianity, it doesn’t mean that what the religion teaches is bad, it’s just what people have done. so, the people that did these things ARE the ones that have had a negative impact on the world, but it’s NOT the religion that has had this negative impact. People are reacting to your statements that christianity is an imoral religion and it has caused negative things in this world because it isn’t anymore and the actual religion never has
ok, did that make any sence what so ever? or was I rambling and making sence only to myself?
0
0
i am jewish but i dont think christianity is bad its just different. the religion itself is not bad but the people who chose to do bad things “because christianity said so” are bad. christianity never said anything like that, dumb people were just driven to kill non christians
0
0
220 – yes, but what exactly does that entail? Is there a specific lifestyle? do you believe in life after death? What is god? etc.
0
0
Ok, I’m conservative Jewish and proud of it.
but before I go in to everything I do or don’t believe, ponder this:
NOT ALL THAT IS TRUE IS FACTUAL
0
0
I do not believe in afterlife as a reward for what you did during your life. But I do believe that there is something after, though I am not sure what.
0
0
215 (last word): or her! (sorry, feminist moment)
216: That’s interesting, I didn’t know the Jews don’t believe in the devil. The Torah is the first 5 books of the Old Testament, right? Does the devil appear anywhere in there?
228: I think you summarized everything very effectively.
0
0
FS- ok, I see your point about the history of the Church. I accept that, and don’t follow in the example of past popes. I do try to follow Jesus’s example of peace and forgiveness. But what’s wrong with Christianity today? “Brainwash” is a harsh word for a culture! No, I don’t watch FOX news, so don’t bring that up.
I’m getting confirmed in the Catholic Church today. I’ve already been in my Protestant Church.
0
0
Alright. I say that since Christianity has caused so many people to commit evil deeds, Christianity is bad. What’s a good analogy… Can’t think of one, but anyway, Christianity has yet to pay for the suffering it has caused. The religion in itself, as an idea, never physically caused anyone harm. Ideas don’t do that. People acting on ideas do. And today it is still being the same. Want some examples? The previous pope claimed that condoms were a sin and told everyone not to use them. I saw, with my own eyes, groups of priests and nuns going around telling adolescents not to use condoms. The same happens in Africa. The pope’s insistence that condoms were bad resulted in it being very difficult for good condoms to get to Africa, and even then, most of them believed the pope and didn’t use ’em. This caused countless deaths from various STDs. Other example: Bush using his “strong christian faith” to promote his self-serving war. A few years ago a mosque was set fire to here by some christians, members of a papal group. The bookstores are run by members of the same group, and it is impossible to get a decent book on the occult. Bah.
As for Jesus, I have no quarrel with him. He was a great guy, a hippie. But he was totally jewish. Come on, 30 years old, unmarried, living with his mother? Jewish.
And how many times do I have to explain that I don’t attack the single, individuals who may be Christian but have perfectly normal lives? The bad guy here is the idea of Christianity, that is so rooted in the minds of men that it can be used to induce terrible acts; and the organization with it’s own financial and political interests.
Christianity has potential, but it just doesn’t work. It is old, decayed, tattered and corrupted. Throw it out, get something new.
As for the followers of my religion… True, the vikings believed in the norse pantheon, (Asatru is a term reserved for the modern revival of the old pagan religion. So vikings were not strictly asatru- doesn’t matter though), but the Vikings raided for economical reasons. They needed to. Scandinavia was overcrowded and it was bloody hard to try growing anything on solid ice. Odin (or Wodan, Odhinn, Oden, or however else in hell you want to spell his name) was primarily a god of wisdom and logic (the norse pantheon is the only one were the chief god is the god of wisdom), and the vikings did not kill in his name, or were motivated by the gods to kill. True, according to norse mythology Odin would take the souls of fallen heroes (called Einherjar) to his hall in Asgard (world of the gods- the world of men is Midgard, literally “middle earth”) to fight by his side during Ragnarok.
Asatruar believe in the norse pantheon and our lifestyles are not really dictated by our beliefs, except for a few things. Honor is important, friendship, loyalty, courage, wit. Follow the advice in the Havamal, if you are truly wise. Know the gods, know the runes, be kind to friends and skillful with enemies.
Btw, what color was Jesus?
231: that depends on your point of view.
223: How can you believe in God, but not Satan?
0
0
235-i think that the values your religion teaches are really good, i just don’t think you are following them. if you truly were trying to be wise as Odin was wise, you would not be cussing, arguing and trying to destroy other religons who hold the same values as yours.
okay, the religion “Christianity” literally means “follower of Christ”. if someone is doing something completely against christs teachings, they are not following our religion wholeheartedly. fridgey, if you complain about how our religion condemns condoms and bush’s “self-serving war” you ma be right that the way in which our relgion is being practiced is not wholey moral. i would disagree with you because i believe it is immoral to have sex outside of a monogamous (did i spell that right?) marriage. i would alose disagree w/ your opinion on the iraqi war. bushes intentions were, i think, good. the way the war has been handled is not good. if it were my decision, i would have ended the war by now, but that is virtually impossibe.
228-very good summary!!!!
i believe that there is a spiritual being who is completely against god whose title is Satan, or Lucifer. it is in the bible that one of gods angels tried to revolt and overthrow god but he was defeated and is now the king of this world. he is trying to come to power again by controlling gods creation: mankind. if you want to read some good analogy of this war, read Frank Peretti’s THIS PRESESNT DARKNESS. it is quite good.
fridgey, if i were in your situation(a non-beleiver who has been educated in the history of the church) i would be arguing the same way as you are. the Christian church has performed some atrocious deeds in the past. but, currently, the church (or at least the church that i believe in) is trying to do all in its power to help our sinful, suffering fallen world.
0
0
228: isn’t a good summary. The Church and Christianity are still being evil today.
Satan is not evil, the bible’s description of him is incorrect. The Church Of Satan believes that Satan is a symbol representing all that is human. All our desires, our lusts, are Satan, and indulging in these (unlike the abstinence preached by Christianity) bring emotional and physical gratification.
Lucifer as a divine being was thrown out of heaven for trying to be the leader, as he believed that God was immoral and that he could do a better job of running things. Lucifer means “bringer of light”, and the satanistic variation of ‘Luciferianism’ worships Satan under this aspect. As a more moral god than God.
0
0
Oh, and about me not following my religions values: I am fighting against something I deem immoral. Is this praiseworthy? Believe me, my fight against Christianity is not motivated by my belief in Asatru. It is my rational, historical fact based belief that Christianity is something negative that must be fought. As for the other values, I do my best to be honorable, courageous, witty, intellectual and loyal to my friends. Someone truly wise will see that Christianity is unneeded and malignant.
0
0
what is asartu?
0
0
grr…my desicions keep being too hasty. I’m coming back.
0
0
(FS)
“The pope’s insistence that condoms were bad resulted in it being very difficult for good condoms to get to Africa, and even then, most of them believed the pope and didn’t use ’em. This caused countless deaths from various STDs.” Well if those Africans hadn’t had pre-marriage sex and stuff like the pope also says , then they wouldn’t have had those problems.
“The vikings raided for economical reasons.” Well that’s true, but they could have been nicer than coming through cities, burning people’s houses, looting churches, and threatening to kill people. If the vikings had sat down and talked with the towns that were supposedly Christian, those Christians might have given them some food because the bible says help the needy and they might have even let them live there becuase the Vikings would give them some protection that they needed.
“Other example: Bush using his “strong christian faith” to promote his self-serving war.” Bush had good intentions from the start. He was unsure if Iraq had WMDs or not. He needed to find out. And in the meantime, Iraq had a not-so-nice dictator running around, Saddam. Bush went in, found that Iraq had no WMDs, and got rid of Saddam, which might have been a mistake. Saddam, a Sunni, had ruled the Shiite majority with an iron hand, and now that he was gone, the Shiites started to fight because they could. Then the Sunnis and the Shiites started fighting, and Bush held his troops there trying to keep the peace. Now people realize that isn’t working, but Bush has personal pride about admitting he’s wrong so the congress is acting for him. Bush was okay at the beginning, but he got himself into some trouble later.
“btw, what color was Jesus?” He was brownish.
“Satan is not evil, the bible’s description of him is incorrect. The Church Of Satan believes that Satan is a symbol representing all that is human.” And humans are full of evil SOMETHING OTHER THAN GOOD qualities. Because Satan tricked Eve into sinning, he toppled the first domino of thousands.
0
0
237- do you understand that the church is not the same as christianity? christianity is not being evil, though the church may be doing wrong things (ie your condom example) and anyway, lots of christians aren’t catholic and don’t follow the pope, so if you say that the pope did something wrong, that has nothing to do with the religion.
238- if christianity is negative, what do you think of all the christian missions on foreign countries? Lots of people are driven to do mission work, or at least donate time and money to missions, because of their christian faith. I know that people have done bad things in the past because of this religion, but I think you are overlooking all the good things they have done. No offense, but are there any major missions that help people in need founded by followers of your religion?
ATTENTION QUAKERS!!!!!!!!
And, what I came here to post, but really doesn’t have a lot to do with the current conversation, but might be a nice turn in this religion conversation because it is a lot less controversail:
I’m going to Washington DC this Tuesday with my mom. We waited WAY too long to get a place to stay the night, but finally my mom found somewhere while she was talking to someone about it yesterday. It’s called the William Penn House, It’s a quaker hostel near the city and while we’re there there’s going to be a quaker service and a small gathering of young (teenage) quakers meeting there. I know that there are some quakers on the blog, I hope some of you are still posting on this thread, because I want to know a little about the quaker religion and what a meeting might be like and anything else… before Tuesday. I might “Wikipedia” it (wikipedia should be a verb just like google is) but I’d like a few ideas from other people my age as to what it might be like. Thanks!
0
0
(242) Elizabeth, I stayed at William Penn House for about a week this past October. It’s only a few blocks from the Capitol, within 10 minutes’ walk of two Metro stops (Union Station and Eastern Market), and a sort of longish hike from the Mall. There’s a nice little garden out front, too.
0
0
231-Thank you for saying that! There are some things that just can’t be explained, even though they do happen. Can you post that on the evolution thread? (Unless, of course, you believe in evolution)
FS-That is it! I am sick of you putting down my religion! You say the Vikings raided for economical reasons, but they also killed many innocent people, sometimes not leaving a town till everyone was dead. What does that have to do with their economy? Some of them were traders, but many were plunderers. Did you know in Ireland, Scotland, Wales, and England, they were known for plundering and stealing precious jewels from Christian monasteries?
Also, just so you know, Norse Paganism, which you say your religion, Asatru, is a revival of, has a very interesting way of worship. You might want to Wikipedia it, but if you are too lazy to, I will tell you here:
1. Human sacrifice: Sweden was ruled by the followers of your religion and the Swedish King Aun murdered nine of his ten sons to try and prolong his life. He would have sacrificed his tenth son, if his subjects had convinved him not to. According to Adam of Bremen’s accounts, Swedish kings sacrificed male slaves every nine years during the Yule sacrifices. The Swedes were able not just to elect their kings, but also to dispose of them. Two of their kings were killed after years of famine. Odin, the wise Norse god, was associated with death of strangling, and archaelogists have evidence of this after finding people’s bodies perfectly preserved in the Jutland peatbogs.
Does this make your religion any better than Christianity? I think not. Your religion is just as evil as you say ours is. And before you go off and post about how those people were just deluded by their religion, believing that they were doing what they thought was right, even though it wasn’t, let me just say that that is the exact same argument that we have been making.
Also, Satan was not described incorrectly in the Bible. Satan believed he was better than God, so God punished him and sent him to Hell. Satan convinced Eve and Adam to eat the forbidden fruit and therefore unleashed the first sins upon the world. Therefore, Satan is the cause of the sin in the world. And as 241 said, if Satan represents all that is human, then Satan must be pretty evil because think about all the sins that humans have done. Crucifixions(not just the one of Jesus), murders, bombings, stealing, and cussing, just to name a few. And you are way outnumbered, by the way, of Christians and Jews to you.
0
0
244 – You go, dude!
0
0
Here is something interesting I have heard.
~~~
There was a man who was inside a warm house, while outside it was freezing cold. Some sparrows were banging against the window, as if they did not get to warmer air, they would die. The man looked at the poor sparrows, and went out to the barn, set out some straw and a heater, and tried to lead them in. But the birds would have none of that. They were too afraid of the hideous monster. Then the man tried sneaking up behind them, to try and scare them in, but that didn’t work either. He went sorrowfully back inside and continued to watch the sparrows banging on his windows. “If only I was a sparrow,” he thought, “I could lead them in.”
The same is true with God. We were confused about how to follow God as he was so big, and just so mysterious. It was very hard to communicate with him without scaring yourself, and as a result not much talk with God happened. So God sent his son Jesus to become a human, one of us! Jesus gave us his teachings so he could lead us in through the right door to heaven, so we won’t be stuck in this world of sin.
~~~
Like it?
0
0
233 – You want the devil to be a girl?
0
0
Today is Yom HaShoah. At my schoool, we’re going to have a holocaust survivor speak during lunch tomorrow, and a ceremony on Thursday. Anybody else’s schools or place of worship doing anything?
0
0
215- Interesting…
247- Technicly, the devil could be either male, female, or neither. Or both, I suppose.
Has anyone here read the golden compas and related books? What did you think?
I’m asking that here because there is a religious theme to it, and I want to hear opinions. It’s an interesting viewpoint on the way things are/were.
0
0
247: No; the sentence was as follows: “So when someone asks you, ‘Well, what do Satanists do?’, you will be qualified to tell him.” Gramatically speaking, “or her” should be tacked on to the end because “someone” is not gender-specific, so when using a pronoun to refer to it, you’re supposed to say “him or her”.
And since I’m playing the role of Grammar Perfectionist, I made sure the above sentences were correct.
0
0
191-i have to disagree with you on that. it proves that you’re a better debater than them.
203-umm. good for him. personally i dont think that good is synonymous with god, so the whole thing really make no sense. his teacher was stupid.
As for The Final Judgement being the answer to evil people, the problem is this: In all probability there is no heaven and hell, and saying that the guy who killed your friend is going to hell isn’t going to bring your friend back to life, or ease the suffering.
for some messsed up people, that not true. and i dont believe in evil. satanism is a bit…. cruel for me.
237-how can the bible’s description of satan be incorrect, when the bible created satan?
241-so a good way of finding out if a country has nuclear weapons is to attack them? instead of waiting for reasonable intelligence? by that i mean the cia sort, not like a new president.
also, if WMDs were the real issue, instead of a crusade for democracy, we wouldnt be in the middle east. we would be in the democratic peoples republic of korea. bush’s intentions are good, but so were hitler’s. the jews were a plague, so he did the world a favor and killed a bunch of them.
249-yeah!! philup pullman. i like the god part. it uses the bible as literature, which is really the only way it should be used.
i kinda agree about asatr. you defend satanism which teaches that all religion was created by humans and is a bad thing, and yet you eblieve in gods that are obviously that way? then again, i saw a really cool quote in someone’s signature. “my god carries a hammer, your god was nailed to a cross” or something of the like. i like that.
250-in many cases, i dont think that him is gender specific. for example, in the un charter, they use him, or he as non gender specific pronouns.
246-so big, mysterious, and non exsistant. the same exact argument could be applied to the FSM, and no less convincingly.
Does this make your religion any better than Christianity? I think not. Your religion is just as evil as you say ours is. yep. pretty much. although not quite as bad.
now, enough with the critisism!!! my religious beliefs. i am a agnostic atheist!! trust me this is possible, wikipedia says so.
meaning. there is no higher power deity or anything. but of course, i cant prove it. thats the agnostic part. however, all religions are equally likely. including the FSM, or the invisible pink unicorn, or any one chooses to make up.
0
0
251: “bush’s intentions are good, but so were hitler’s. the jews were a plague, so he did the world a favor and killed a bunch of them.”
You are seriously going to regret saying that.
0
0
DDoD was being ironic — poking around inside Hitler’s head for a moment and speaking from his point of view. Obviously he doesn’t hold that viewpoint himself.
0
0
251-The Bible did not create Satan. Satan is not merely something that someone decide to write about. Neither is God, or Jesus being the Son of God. They were written down by prophets of God, writing what God told them to say. Satan is as real as the air we breathe.
252-I agree with DDoD. I am just speaking from Hitler’s point of view. I am not saying I believe that Hitler was right in what he did. Hitler believed his intentions were good. And so did many people, thus the Nazis. Jews were considered a plague to the world. Hitler believed that he would do the world a favor by killing them all. Unfortunately, he took his idea to the extreme and went too far with it, just like the KKK and President Bush.
0
0
251 – Your first comment on 191 is very true. Very true indeed…thank you for saying that.
0
0
(252) It would be pretty outrageous if someone said that and really meant it.
0
0
254- Correction. Hitler believed his actions would further his political career.
0
0
Satan is not evil, Satan is man. Man is both good and evil. The vikings did not kill in the name of the gods. Bush had no good ideas to begin with, he stole the goddamm presidency! As for the swedish king, you give me one example, I can give you many of foul deeds committed in the name of the gods. And the king wasn’t even doing it in the name of the gods.
True, Christianity and the Church are not the same, but the Church embodies Christianity, and the Church invented Christianity.
I follow Asatru as a spiritual aspect of my life, and do not necessarily believe all the mythology. I defend satanism as a misunderstood, morally correct religion. Which many people here don’t seem to understand. I don’t believe in Satan, or in God. What Satan is, according to Anton LaVey, founder of the Church, is a symbol representing human joy, pain, confusion, ambition, basically anything human. But if you believe in Satan, then Satan in the christian sense is misunderstood anyway.
Kings were killed to appease gods everywhere, except maybe in christian countries, because most often the political leader was also the religious leader, or connected to him. What you’re trying to do is nullify my arguments criticising Christianity (which are in no way forwarded by my own personal beliefs) by attacking my spirituality. Asatru is linked with shamanism and runelore, both spiritually fulfilling activities. I worship the gods, yes, because I find it spiritually fulfilling, but I don’t delude myself and imagine I hear them in my head, telling me to do this or that.
So, it is my opinion that divine beings such as gods do not exist as Christianity teaches. If anything, a god can exist inside a person, as a person’s own spiritual invention. Anton LaVey said, in the Book of Lucifer: “There is no God more powerful than man himself”. I do not have a dogmatic blind faith that leads me to ignore the obvious and delude myself like you sorry people. Towards people like you I feel one of the following: Contempt, pity or hate.
God is man-made. God should be a moral compass, isntead
0
0
he is used by man for his own material needs. God is an illusion, a lie. All gods are. The only thing divine is inside us.
0
0
I agree.
0
0
259- Deep, man. I might quote you there.
0
0
258-i agree that satanism is misunderstood^999, however by my moral standard it is not morally correct.
4)Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!
4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.
11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.
this obvious disregard for human life and kindness is not moral. as far as i can tell, a satanist would most certainly support capital punishment, unless they were like anarchists.
258-i dunno stealing the presidency seems a relatively good idea. you dont believe in satan or god. and yet you blieve in freya? what is the difference?
0
0
Something i MUST say: STOP FIGHTING AND BE NICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Beware the wrath of my exclamation points!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
0
0
263 – That’s pretty much impossible. FS belives that Christianity is morraly evil and I belive the exact opposite so as long as we both stay on here it will be extremely hard to keep calm. Sorry.
0
0
251-“my god carries a hammer and your god was nailed to a cross”….what?????? well, if you beleive that your god is true and real then i also believe my god is true and real and he rose from the dead.
0
0
265- Err… I beleive it was a reference to how a hammer is whatis used to pound nails…
0
0
i found it amusing. i have no god.
0
0
I don’t believe my gods are real in the material sense, but they are real inside of me. There is no big organization with political power and economy… Again, to quote LaVey: “If every church were taxed correctly depending on its income, the national debt would be wiped out immediately”.
And to all those who say that science is a lie and that the dogma preached by those who have a stranglehold on america and europe (ie donaldo, E2MB), I say this: Grow up, and get an education. I keep forgetting I’m talking to little kids who have never been outside their own country.
0
0
GOD DIDN’T CREATE SATAN! NEITHER DID THE BIBLE! God created lucifer, which means “morning light” lucifer was the most beautiful angel of them all. lucifer soon thought himself better than God, so God banished him to hell. lucifer is now known as Satan, as well as many other things. also, satan is not man. he is a fallen angel, and was never a man. also, what is there to misunderstand about people worshipping satan, who is the cause of all death, sin, and destruction in the history of the universe? not much. God didn’t create evil, satan did and then brought it into the world. also, God is much more than just us. God created the universe, created life, created each and every one of us. every person being their own god is just a way for people to justify their obviously sinful actions by saying, “my god didn’t forbid it.” it is a load of lies. also, asatru seems to be satan in disguise. FS, you say you follow “asatru”, but in 258, you quote from a book about satanism. it sounds to me like you, even if just subconsiously, follow satan, which cannot be a good thing.
on a lighter note, i’m excited for my Confirmation. its on the 29th. also, is everyone having a good Easter season? I am. i mean, Confirmation and my birthday on top of the Lord’s Ressurection? AWESOME! anyways, happy easter and I’m praying for you. especially you, FS
242- Yes Quakers are a bit hard to understand. We believe in God, and most follow Jesus. General beliefs that all Quakers share are pacifism, unconditional love and acceptance. The Quakers are officially called the Society of Friends, and individuals are called Friends.
A Quaker service is a called a meeting for worship. Usually, Everyone sits in silence. A Friend may rise and give a message (i.e. communicate orally a spiritual enlightening) if they feel led to. The idea is to open the mind to God.
Hope this helped- let me know if you have any more questions! I think I may be the only Quaker still actively posting on this thread-maybe you can catch one of the other Friends somewhere else.
0
0
269: Moron. What is to be understood about satan is that he is not evil, evil came from God as long as everything else (careful- this is not what I believe, but from the Christian point of view). Satan is man, and good and evil, and all that gratifies man emotionally and physically. Satan is not evil. Lucifer was the “patron saint” of many scientific cults throughout history, including the Illuminati, as his name means Bringer of Light. The Church gave the adjective ‘demonic’ or ‘satanic’ on anything non-christian, then preached that anything non-christian was evil. You see how even today the millenia long train of lying dogma spewed forth by the Church conditions humanity’s thinking.
In the spiritual sense, God can only be inside of us. Every man makes his own god, who gives him morals, among other things. Morals do not come from religious doctrine, they come from US. How come I, who do not follow Christianity, find it morally incorrect to kill, even though nothing in my religion says that this is so? In fact, Asatru gives no moral guidance at all. Only spiritual.
And when you say “asatru is satan in disguise” that just makes me laugh. I am Asatruar, but I defend Satanism, as it is a morally correct religion subject to the lies of Christianity. Did you read the Satanic philosophy? It isn’t evil, it doesn’t glorify death or destruction. In fact, LaVey said that life is the most precious thing we have, and he is strongly against violence or suicide. Especially to animals or children, as these beings are pure and un-corrupted by humanity or society, it is essential to keep these beings, who are the epitomes of life’s beauty, healthy. Is that evil? I don’t think so. Far more evil is a Christian Saint who is always depicted carrying a whip and using it to ‘castigate’ heretics (i.e. people who challenged the christian dogma). Saint Ambrosius, patron saint of Milan.
0
0
270: No. Organized religion is man’s invention. Always.
0
0
270- thanks, I figured out about the worship service, it was a little strange, well, different, i guess is the better word. we were sitting in the guest room (where they hold the service, but also a place to hang out) then peope just started coming in, sitting down, and closing their eyes. It was silent for 1/2 hour, then someone started shaking hands and saying good morning and everyone did that, then we introduced ourselves. It was different, but I kinda liked it.
271- please don’t insult people, just because they don’t know as much about one topic as you do, you’d probably get more information across by just explaining it, if someone started a post to me with the word moron, I’d be mad and wouldn’t read the post real closely, so if your motive is to make people mad, this isn’t the best place, but if your motive is to explain your views and maybe get people to think your way a little more, I think insulting people isn’t the right way
0
0
271-You are right. The Satanic philosophy is good, and yes I will admit it, even though I am against Satan, I so far do not have anything against the Satanic church because I have not ever been around a Satanist or been to a Satanic church service. And no, I do not believe in Satanic blood rituals or stuff like that because that is (for the most part) a myth. But the thing that you do not understand is that the guy who wrote the Satanic philosophy and said he is against murder and suicide, well, that is the way HE sees Satan. No one ever said that the way HE sees Satan is the right way. It could be the WRONG WAY! That is what you don’t understand.
0
0
And, by the way, I am totally praying for you too, Frigid Symphony. I feel sorry for you, as you cannot accept that you are wrong even though there is overwhelming abundance of evidence that proves you wrong.
0
0
275 – I include FrigidSymphony in my list of people to pray for every night, and just about every night I pray for him.
And FS, please don’t call Piggy a moron. It’s not nice.
0
0
As usual Piggy, that was a GREAT post. I never knew some of that and yes, I am having a wonderful Easter season. My confirmation won’t be for another 3 years, though. *sigh*
0
0
270: I *think* Red-tailed HAWK is a Quaker. You can summon him on the random thread.
271 (FS): “evil came from God as long as everything else (careful- this is not what I believe, but from the Christian point of view).” Wrong again. The Christian viewpoint–which I would have thought you would be aware of, considering you seem to know so much about religions–is just as Piggy explained, that when God created everything, it was all good, and THEN Satan brought evil into God’s universe. And since you keep bringing it up, you should know the devil’s name was Lucifer because he was the head angel before his fall. Just a question: where was Satan first described? The Christian Bible, where the words of God were recorded. Then, in the 1960s, Anton LaVey totally redefined Satan. Wikipedia says, “LaVey viewed ‘Satan’ not as a literal deity or entity, but as a historic and literary figure symbolic of Earthly values.” So bascially he created a brand-new religious figure. Why he decided to call this figure “Satan” is beyond me. Personally, I think it was a huge mistake on his part, since it caused a huge misunderstanding: in reality, Satan is a fallen angel, a real being who is the source of all evil; LaVey and his followers praised something entirely different, that is, what they claimed was the essence of humanity.
“I can give you many of foul deeds committed in the name of the gods.” So basically, interpretations of two religions have been used as justification for atrocious deeds, yet you are a follower of one and vehemently oppose the other? At last I understand.
“Christianity and the Church are not the same, but the Church embodies Christianity, and the Church invented Christianity.” Just stop there. When you refer to the Church, you’re talking about Catholicism, right? Here’s how it happened: Jesus spread the word of Christianity. Thus, his followers became Christians and formed the original Christian church. Over a thousand years later, Catholics broke off from this church, claiming the pope was infallible.
If God created everything, and it was all good, why was the symbolic apple there anyway? He planted evil in Eden, along with everything else. And Satan was not first described in the Bible. As a deiety, he has existed for far longer than Christianity. When Christianity came along, it labelled anything non-christian ‘demonic’ or ‘satanic’.
Anyway, Satan is never evil (which, coincidentally, is the word ‘live’ reversed). He never has been, but only labelled thus by those who seek to maintain power. The very word Satan signifies ‘adversary’, the greek divinity Apollyon, synonym of Satan, meant ‘Archnemesis’.
275: Abundant evidence I am wrong? Grow up and get a bloody education, I don’t want to argue with a kid who’s been indoctrinated from birth with lies and falsehood.
278: He called it “Satanism” because of the meaning of the word and of the god. Human indulgence, physical and emotional gratification. And of course, adversary to the Church, percieved by many learned philosophers as one of the greatest tragedies of the world. You can see the effects for yourself, when religious people are so close-minded they are incapable of arguing consistently, and hide behind myths and tales with no logical, scientifical or even reasonable basis to back them up.
Don’t pray for me, no one. Don’t degrade yourself by disguising your hatred like this. I would like to quote the Satanic Bible:
“…and somehow the animosity must be released. What better way than through “prayer”! What a simperingly polite way of saying: “I hate your guts”, is the thinly disguised device known as praying for your enemy! Praying for one’s own enemy is nothing more than bargain-basement anger, and of a decidedly shoddy and inferior quality!”
Don’t pray for me. I do not feel sorry for you, I feel contempt! I feel disgust! I see in you the perfect example of a human with his own potentials and capacities driven blind to sense and reality by imposed falsehoods! You are not a man, you are a puppet! A dumb beast, herded about by pastors! Go, be part of your flock. You’re doomed to a lifetime of sacrifice and abstinence to no avail, to no end. There is no reward for denying your humanity, no paradise for the hypocrites. The presence of your religion is a blemish on humanity, a hindrance to progress, to advance. Do not pray for me.
0
0
And don’t you dare edit my post. I can say what I want to, and people can deal with it intelligently or not. But I have my voice, and my opinion.
0
0
you’re a satanist? interesting. never met one before. a real one i mean. there are plenty of stupid goth kids around claiming to be satanists, but i’ve never met one that’s actually had somewhat logical beliefs to back it all up
0
0
281: I’m not really a satanist, meaning I don’t claim to be… Probably I’m a de facto satanist, meaning I follow the principles, but I claim to be Asatruar because the principles held dear are more important to me. Honor, for example.
0
0
Sorry for 2x post…
However, I defend satanism avidly, as it is a misunderstood philosophically correct religion labelled as evil by those who don’t know.
0
0
(280) This is a moderated blog, and posts are subject to editing. That said, however, lengthy posts may sometimes sit around waiting simply because there’s not time to read them.
And I don’t think anyone on MB doubts you have a voice and an opinion.
0
0
284: Be that as it may, I don’t want anything I say cut out for fear of ‘offending’ someone. Any problems I might have, even with individual bloggers, can be said out in the open, and read, and dealt with. Cutting out that which may offend serves no purpose, as it doesn’t alter my opinion, nor give a chance for the offended party to rebate.
So everyone reads everything, eh? I’m surprised the GAPAs don’t intervene more to give their own opinions. Frankly, I’m quite interested in what adults have to say on this topic.
0
0
279/FS-I will continue to pray for you every day, because that is the right thing to do. I will ask the Blessed Virgin Mary to lead you back into the Lord’s light every time I pray the Rosary, which is usually every day. I’m praying for everyone else, too.
May God bless and keep you during this blessed Easter season.
0
0
E2MB-just wanna say you rock
0
0
286: I do not want to be led back into the light of Christ, as it is a foul, false, light, decayed and dark with blasphemies against humanity. Raped by the light of Christ, I will not be. Slaughter of the soul, it shall not be. Only truth from inside, shall I see.
And how can she be a virgin if she was pregnant? Immaculate conception my foot, leg and elbow.
0
0
FrigidSymphony- I agree with you on the fact that there are problems with religion, but you don’t need to be so harsh. Just like you are allowed your own beliefs, other people are too. I too have your contempt, but if I reveal it at all I don’t try to be so mean to people who believe in God. Same as you, I want no-one praying for me.
0
0
289: Where the early Christians any less harsh with the pagans? With the Jews? With the heretics? My behaviour is angelic compared to that.
0
0
Oh, I won’t even bother. At least I agree with you, mostly.
0
0
FS-all this time on the MuseBlog you have been ranting about how the corrupt men of the church have done inumerable horrible things to humanity. you have been raving about the atrocities committed by the church and its members-the indoctinated victim humans. and then you go and say that Christianity is complete bollocks and bs. you say it is completely false and fabricated by men…… And then you say that Satan is man. lets see…you’ve just about said that all organized religions are terible and have done horrific things. most of the world’s population is religiously organized. all these religions are “made” by men. then you go and say that satan represents man. “Satan is not evil, Satan is man. Man is both good and evil.” you just stated that all organized religion is evil. all organized religion is made up of men. then you say that satan is man and that satanism is inherently good because it appeases man. what the heck!!!!!!!!!!!!! i don’t understand your logic in the least. i would barely even declare it as “logic”. you’ve just completely recanted w/o even realising it.
go piggy! go E2MB! go Elizabeth! go DTSCN(i think thats what your name is abbreviated)! go Dot Keet! you guys rock my sox!
0
0
Poor FS. All alone in a world where most everybody follows something he thinks is morally wrong….
“I do not feel sorry for you, I feel contempt! I feel disgust! I see in you the perfect example of a human with his own potentials and capacities driven blind to sense and reality by imposed falsehoods! You are not a man, you are a puppet! A dumb beast, herded about by pastors! Go, be part of your flock. You’re doomed to a lifetime of sacrifice and abstinence to no avail, to no end. There is no reward for denying your humanity, no paradise for the hypocrites. The presence of your religion is a blemish on humanity, a hindrance to progress, to advance. Do not pray for me.”
I’m sorry, FS. You must have a really hard time in your everyday life. I can picture how you feel. If everybody on MuseBlog was FS’s and I was the only one of my kind left… *shudder* *quintuple-shudder*
Unfortunantly, the only way to solve this dillema is to have everybody because Astruars, which isn’t going to happen, or have FS become a Christian, which isn’t going to happen. We should all pray for him. He needs nourishment from this world which, in his mind, is so sickeningly wrong…
So far these religions threads have made people cry, get angry, almost leave MuseBlog, annoy people, shock people, and so on. I think we should all be nice to each other, and not argue to no end. And as that is probably is impossible, we should probably stop this thread. I know we are almost to 300 posts, and I strongly reccomend to keep Religions, v. 2007.3 out of MuseBlog for a while, perhaps forever.
I have learned some interesting things on this thread, but at a cost: I got very angry sometimes. In the past, Christian MBers have blown up, and now it has happened to FS. I’m sort of depressed about this thread now, so I probably won’t be posting as much as I used to.
Peace, faith, hope, and love,
E2MB
0
0
I agree. We just need to give this thread a rest. Normally MBers mange to stay fairly civil when discussing things, but clearly religions is a topic where we can’t.
0
0
oooooohhhhhh boy. if we can’t talk civily about our religions then we obviously don’t follow our religions very well. E2MB-i have done none of your reactions listed. i have laughed at FS “arguments” though. he’s funny….and illogical. at least from my point of view, which he would argue is warped cause i’ve been “indoctrinated and brainwashed”. oh well. i do agree that we should probably postpone the next religions thread cause it does cause intermuseblog strife. FS once posted a religious comment on the books thread!!!!!!! oh dear. my life is centered around MB. i need to break out.
0
0
295-intermuseblog? inter means between, and it’s hard to have anything between museblogs, since there’s only oe of them. Did you mean intramuseblog? (intra being within)
Getting back on topic, I neither laugh at nor feel sorry for FS. I just think he’s obnoxious.
0
0
296 – That’s WHY he needs prayers and help.
0
0
“I don’t believe my gods are real in the material sense, but they are real inside of me. ” i do not understand. please explain.
269-… i dont know exactly what teh bible says, but like.. i dont care.the bible created satan.
271-i think there are two definitions of satan. one by the bibe, and one by anton lavay. one is used as a symbol for evil, and one is used as a real being. i can quote lavey too! “evil is life spelled backwards” oh. oops. you allready said that. lol.
290-why would you compare yourself to them? justifying wrong with other wrong that is more wrong is just stupid, and immoral. seriously.
293-i am pretty much in agreement with FS. and i love life. and i feel great in everyday life. hating religion is not really a problem.
and a question for FS. how do you feel about Buddhism? that probably about the only religion that has nothing bad in it. completely moral, is accepting of homosexuals, and other religions, and best of all, noone has ever done anything wrong because of it. of course, i dont believe in reincarnation, but otherwise, Buddhism is awesome.
0
0
Ahhhg. I feel pity for Museblog itself only. Why do these threads always turn into Hot Topics, basically??
Gah. What I really need to do is read up on a binch of different religions that arn’t the everyday ones like Christianity, and figure out what the heck I think. I get so confused trying to figure out what goes on in my head.
HOWEVER- I don’t want any of you preaching to me or trying to ‘guide’ me. This is something I need to do on my own. Also, no praying for me either. If I find something I can believe in or try to believe in I am going to do it on my own. If there are any deities out there, they will only cloud my sight because i need to do some serious thinking, not believing. Ahhggggggrr. If anyone does end up trying any of the above, I may have to leave this thread for a while. Meh.
0
0
299 – (first comment) – because Religions is basically a hot topic.
The one problem with buddhism is that it will lead people away from carnal, physical fulfillment.
I am not illogical. Christianity has done its best to instill guilt in the minds of men and to render sinful everything that comes naturally to us. Gluttony, masturbation, fornication, greed, envy, anger. The Bible is in constant self-contradiction.
292: Satan represents man, with all his ambiguities, faults and joys. Spiritual religions distance themselves from man, making everything human seem morally wrong. The instinct to reproduce is a sin. The instinct to eat more than necessary to survive is a sin. The spiritual religions are made by men who distance themselves from their humanity, and make sacrifices to themselves in the images of their gods.
I haven’t said that all religious organizations have done horrific acts, take Buddhism as an example. Mostly my arguments have been directed towards Christianity and then, Islam.
Satanism is a religion that allows its followers to live in full satisfaction of their basic human needs. Many people are satanists already, without knowing it.
Satanism is good, as it appeases man. Christianity is not good, as it leads to the ultimate sacrifice of man for no further purpose, other than to lend power to one of the greatest lies of all.
0
0
I’m closing down this thread. Everybody knows what FrigidSymphony thinks; FS doesn’t care what anybody else thinks; and nobody seems to be able to talk about anything else. It looks to me as if the learning curve here has gone flat.
I’m not sure what lessons are to be drawn from this thread’s tempestuous history. Offhand, I’d say that the “unrestricted clash of ideas” model that FrigidSymphony favors doesn’t work very well for MuseBlog. Not every MBer wants to be a Viking warrior, and having one Viking warrior in their midst swinging his broadsword around pretty much spoils the fun for everybody else. It’s useful to know that the model exists, though, because it’s what awaits you in college, if you go to a good one. It can be stimulating and informative under the right conditions.
FS wondered (somewhere) what we GAPAs think. In general, we stay out of discussions, except to maintain order and supply information. Unlike most bloggers, we didn’t launch MuseBlog as a vehicle for our own opinions, and we know how quickly kids tend to shut up when adults start talking (though somehow we suspect that would be less likely to happen here). Since FS asked, though, I will make a few personal observations:
1. I think it’s selfish of anyone to turn a thread into his own private boxing ring.
2. Nothing I’ve heard here is new to me. Anton S. LaVey died ten years ago. Aleister Crowley died ten years before I was born. Friedrich Nietzsche is taught in college intro philosophy classes. I read The Satanic Bible when I was a teenager, and it seemed exciting and daring back then, but a little thought was enough to convince me that I wouldn’t really want to live in a world in which “feel free to destroy people who annoy you” was one of the ground rules. It would be like being one of the vampires or demons on Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
3. LaVey didn’t believe Satan really existed, and I don’t think FS does, either. I think they both use the idea or image of Satan as a symbol to make a point and an impression. So if some of his posts about the history and nature of the Devil are a little confusing, it’s because he’s speaking symbolically, not historically. He doesn’t think that Satan is a being whom the Church has misunderstood; he thinks Satan is an aspect of human psychology that the Church has repressed.
4. I don’t think FS really believes in the Norse gods, either. I think that’s just posturing.
5. I think tolerance is necessary for life in civilized society. It’s not always easy, though, and understanding someone else’s ideas doesn’t always make them more attractive. Understanding is still important, and tolerance becomes more manageable when you realize that it doesn’t necessarily mean supporting beliefs that strike you as crazy or offensive–just putting up with them. Where crazy/offensive crosses the line into dangerous/intolerable is a question that every society has to work out for itself, but I’m inclined to be charitable in the interest of keeping the peace.
Again, it’s not always easy. Some Christians will always regard even nice, decent Buddhists as dangerously deluded–“dangerously” because by denying Jesus Christ they are condemning themselves and the children they bring up in their beliefs to an eternity of torment. Buddhists will consider many Christian doctrines (transubstantiation, atonement, blood sacrifice, eternal torment for harmless Buddhists) weird and incomprehensible. Mainstream Christians think Mormon beliefs are nuts; Mormons think non-Mormons are missing out on something exciting and important.
Whatever you believe, millions or even billions of other people–for the most part well-meaning people, I think–are going to disagree with you. Somehow we’ve all got to live and function in a world in which that is so. Is the solution not to talk about it? Or not to think about it? That doesn’t seem like the Muse, or MuseBlog, way.
So farewell, Religions 2007.2. You’ve given us plenty to think about. I’m sure Religions 2007.3 will come along eventually. For now, though, I think we can afford to give this topic a rest.
FFFFFFFIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRRSSSSSSSSSSTTTTTTTTTTTTPPPPPPPPPPOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSSTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW000000000000000000000000000000000000000000TTT!!!!!!
anyways, on to business. right now i’m not quite sure what religion i believe in. i think the Norse and Greek gods are pretty cool, but the FSM is just really interesting. i can’t decide. hmmmm…..
1- the PoPoPo is after you, Gemini Elf!
2- I like FSM, except for the “I’d really rather you didn’ts”. They annoy me, so I’m just staying atheist.
I’m an atheist, as stated on the last religions thread…maybe we can actually keep this one on the above-stated subject.
if anyone makes a religion list, then put me under “Mixed Bag of Random Beliefs.
Gemini Elf, are you homeschooled?
6 – nope. [geographic information snipped. –Admin.]
i just keep changing my name! hehehehe…
Atheist and Proud!! Also, I’m blogging from school right now!
I’m a christian
I thought there already was a Religions, v. 2007.2
There was, but it got turned into a Hot Topics thread, because that’s what it became.
I’m Pagan.
10 – also, it got closed because of the weird virusy thingy that the GAPAs sent through the system. i think.
I’m Christian.
1- Since I became an officer of the PoPoPo on the welcome newcomers thread, I fine you two pieces of virtual choklit. One for the PoPo, and one because it was the first post thing.
Yeh, I’m a Christian and am proud of it.
9- I would never blog from school, because they keep track of all the sites you go on, and no-one would realise what a wonderful site this is.
You seem to be missing a fundamental point about the FSM… it’s a satire religion making fun of dogmatic Christianity.
14- I only blogged from school because it was on the library’s account, not a personal one. I hope that made sense.
15- What is FSM?
So… Who’s with me in my fight for freedom and spiritual rebellion?
(17),
I thought participants in religion threads had agreed not to try to convert one another.
I never did. And I’m not asking for conversion, I’m asking for awareness against the dark side of Christianity.
Christianity became the official religion of the roman empire. How? Rome was the Devil’s land, the Romans killed Christ!
Rome itself was a decadent culture by that time, drowning in violence. Women were mere possesions, slavery was enforced and children were sold to prostitution or worse. The Emperor was allowed to name his horse a senator or to rape his mother, no one cared anymore. The Empire was drowning.
“Barbarian” peoples, strong in their social unity and lifestyle, invaded, and the Empire could not resist. But these too were soon corrupted by the decadent atmosphere of Rome.
Then all of a sudden Christianity arrives! The men in power go from being slaveowners and cruel taskmasters to bishops and priests. Yet the life conditions still decrease.
Christianity had to adapt to the disgusting life of Rome for acceptance. Christianity did not stop to wonder about who had martyred the first Christians, it just made itself its servant.
Constantine was the first Emperor to adopt Christianity as official cult. To know what sort of guy he was, just remember he killed his son, cousin, wife and son in law. Constantine claimed that Jesus appeared to him in a dream and told him to go into battle with the sign of the cross painted on his shields. Of course many other Christians were not impressed by this abuse of Jesus for violent means, and they were killed.
The very beginnings of Christianity, and certainly its introduction as official cult and widespread religion, are marked with blood. Christianity has never been used as a tool for good, it has always been a political power and tool to incite and aggravate the masses.
There. History lesson finished.
19- Thanks for the history lesson. Makes one think a little…
Now will somebody tell me waht FSM is?
(20) The Flying Spaghetti Monster. For more information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_spaghetti_monster
19: I could accept “Christianity has often been used as a tool for bad,” but to say that “Christianity has never been used as a tool for good” is an extremely arrogant statement that assumes that you know absolutely everything there is to know about Christianity both now and in the past. I would appreciate it if you would refrain from posting unobjective, generalized statements such as this that may not, in fact, reflect the truth for every situation.
For anyone who is interested, I reccomend the teachings of Rob Bell, the founder of Mars Hill church in Grand Rapids, Michigan.
FSM isn’t just a satire of Christianity, it was founded for a cause and is used to combat both bad intelligent design, and global warming. Here’s some of their beliefs:
1)The world was created by a Flying Spahgetti Monster
2) Global warming is caused by a decrease in the number of pirates around the world
3)Evolution was all planted by the FSM
Anyone heard of Russell’s Teapot, or the IPU?
FS anything to say about my previous comment on Islam?(other thread)
We need a list of names and reigions.
Here’s my religions list. I haven’t updated it since the flee from the previous religion thread(s). I always try to stay on the thread in the beginning, but end up running away in terror. Let’s see how long I last this time.
Muslim
FantasyFan?!?!
Jewish
Sphinx
elassë~adael
Quintessentia
groundhog22
hypermoocow
ha
FairyDragon
Reform
yellowsharpiemarker
Julieb
Reconstructionist
Kiki The Great
Anata~ChinTsu
Conservative
Copper Bigfoot
Brave Sir Robin
Zyviva
Orthodox
Phoenix
Jessie
Jewish Athiest
Lizzie
emmatheduck
Christian
cHill
MontgomeryGurl
Ninja For Christ
Eccentric the Afterthought
Kagcomix
Lutheran
Queen-o-random
Capricious
Catholic
Ebeth
davidude
Piggy the Proud Catholic
American Orthodox
Sunrunner Bramblewood
Quaker
Purple Panda
Zallie
Taiwan Hippo Fan
elassë~adael
Red Tailed HAWK
Liesolotte
Orthodox Christian
Dot Keet
Protestant
book_addict
VanZepplin
Otzi
Mormon (LDS)
Skwerl Overlord
Veralidaine
Zyka
Methodist
grnqween2011
Presbyterian
Elizabeth
Baptist
jammin j
Hindu
♥ shriya siolashrwa jeffica ♥
Buddhist
100% cotton
Agnostic
Sweet Melpomene
curious and questioning
SupremeMuser2000
Lady Visala of Reverie
Wiccan
emogrl
FairyDragon
Mixed Bag of Random Beliefs
Pentatonikk
Gwendolyn of the Eastern Seas
Otzi
Axa
elassë~adael
curious and questioning
Musketeer Number 5
Sweet Melpomene
Druid Reconstructionist
Millie
Atheist
Skipper Nancy
Darth Yoda
Lizzie
penguini
Yup
Bobbyjkl
First Sorceress
Shadowkat
curious and questioning
Potato Chip
Cat’s Meow
Spiritual Athiest
The Bev
Harmony with short red hair
Radical Athiest
Angel’s Holocaust
Queenie J
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM)
Necromancer
Dark duke of darkness
Majora’s Wrath
Asatruar
Frigid Symphony
Green Cow
curious and questioning
I am agnostic and have told no one except a you guys and my friends on another one of my various blogs. I’m afraid my family will disown me.
I’m such a wimp.
Why did they make another thread for arguing and name-calling???
The bunny is still broken (I think)
I’m still trying to figure out what American Orthodox is. Is Sunrunner Bramblewood still on the blog?
22: Thanks for saying that.
(27),
Sunrunner Bramblewood last posted on March 20. Technically, she’d count as Eastern Orthodox. She explained (under an earlier name) here:
https://musefanpage.com/blog/?p=354#comment-141
i am SO an athiest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! cHill,
count me on your list.(even though im totally new)
28: Oh, okay, cool. The link didn’t work, but I got to the thread and got the gist of it. I’m Eastern Orthodox, too. PP, could you put me down as that instead (instead of “Orthodox Christian”)? Thanks bunches. Although it’s not that important (“just a question of schemantics”, which was my chem teacher’s favorite thing to say, although I probably spelled that wrong and misused it), so maybe just include it next time you’re adding people.
Happy Pesach (passover) everyone!
Our seder was… interesting to say the least. But fun.
31- Ditto. Sam Bearman makes everything…. interesting.
We dip potatoes instead of parsley.
I’m an atheist. I have trouble believeing that the Earth was created in just a week. (That is what Catholics believe, right?) My family used to be Catholic, but stopped going to church when I was in kindergarten. The main reason I’m not religious is because the bible says absolutely nothing about prehistoric life, and that the Earth as we know it (almost) has always been like this. No evolution, nothing.
31: What’s seder? Sorry, I don’t know much about religions.
25-Oh, you poor thing! That’s sad…I mean the part about how you’re afraid to tell your parents. I’m fairly lucky in that respect…my family’s not religious.
Sorry for double post, but I have to say, for all the people who practice Lent: one of my friends (who is extremely sarcastic and witty) gave up quips and/or comebacks for Lent…it’s killing him.
24 – HAHAHA!!! you have me on your list 2 times, as AH and MW. now i’m Sand Demon, so put me on MBORB, please.
add on to my previous post…MBORB is Mixed Bag Of Random Beliefs.
34- Yep. It sucks.
CRAP! I just gave away my alias.
33, I’m Catholic but we do not believe exactly in the one-week thing. My parents say that one week for God could translate as billions of years in human years. Actually, I’m kind of at a crossroad between Christianity and Atheism. It’s hard to believe in God but also hard to not believe in God. I also believe in evolution (don’t tell my dad this).
Bye!
P. S. I’m homeschooled.
P. P. S. I gave up dessert and white flour for lent.
39 – You gotta be careful what you post on MuseBlog. Remember, any creep on the entire planet can read what you type as long as they have access to the internet. Do your parents ever come onto MuseBlog to read what you type? They might find out a lot more about your inner self.
farewell and good luck, my fellow MBers! i’m off on a trip that will last an hour and i won’t have any wireless internet. *cries* see u all l8r!
23: What comment?
25, 40, whoever esle: Exactly. You can’t deny the faith or your parents will punish you. What is wrong with people???
40 – I gave up going to the movies for lent.
42 – You’re that addicted?
43- On the previous religion thread that turned into a hot topics thread. Here it is again:
On an entierly different note, I just saw an article in the NY Times about a scholar translating the Koran into English, and finding another translation for the word that FS used to refer to his belief that Islam was sexist. “Daraba” can mean several other things besides to beat, or have sex with.
Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/25/us/25koran.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
45: There are many other extracts from the koran that are extremely sexist, if not more.
It can stay a religion thread, with Catholics and Christians defending their religion (which is more a political power than anything) from my onslaught. Any thoughts to the history lesson? Christianity was first imposed as a religion by a violent, politically ambitious man in a society full of violence and decadence. I’d say it managed pretty well to adapt…
19-THE ROMANS DID NOT KILL JESUS! That is a common belief, but is wrong. Jesus was merely killed IN the Roman Empire, as they ruled most of modern-day Europe and Northern Africa. Jesus was taken to a Roman court, but the judge did not find anything wrong with him, so the pharisees took him to a Jewish court, where the judge already believed Jesus was false and insane. So the Romans believed Jesus was who he claimed to be, and they became the Holy ROman Empire. The Jews prosecute and crucified Jesus. THat is why Jews were mistreated in the Middle Ages. By the way, I am a Christian-LOUD AND PROUD!!!!!
40-RIght on! The world was not created in just one week. THe term “days” could have meant just a block of time. WHen we say, “to this day” or something like that, “to this day” could be many days! That is why, if you study Earth History, scientists believe in evolution. Because, in the Bible, it says God created humans last. This means he created many things before it, including humanoid creatures, that weren’t homo sapiens. This has cause scientists to believe that the humanoids changed to homo sapiens. This is not true. We may be in the same genus or order as the cavemen, but we weren’t ever just cavemen. In fact, those “days” in which God created the Earth might have even gone up to just about 100,000 years ago, when scientists believe the first modern humans were created. Either that or archaeologists just haven’t found older homo sapien fossils yet!
Woa! How did evolution come up on the religions thread? You might want to move this disscusion to the hot topics thread to avoid upsetting anyone. I don’t even really want to get into this debate. *runs from thread before being pelted with information for why the Earth really was created in 6 days run run run!*
FrigidSymphony, your whole argument against Christianity is undermined when you talk about how it was during the Roman Empire. This is the twenty-first century!
DTASAN,that theory doesnt explain the dinosaurs and other ,more ancient, things.you really think it would take god,if there is one, a BILLION years to create life?
A couple of factual points:
(47) I’m not sure about the relations between Roman and Jewish law in Judea at the time (where is Larry Gonick when you need him?), but I do know that the Jews did not execute people by crucifying them. Crucifixion was a Roman punishment.
(48) Even if you stretch time and reinterpret “days,” most scientists would disagree with Genesis’s account of the order in which things came into being, i.e.,
1. day and night
2. the sky
3. dry land and oceans; trees and plants
4. stars, sun, moon
5. sea animals and birds
6. land animals and people
I hope that worked. That should be a link to a very funny easter video, sorry those who aren’t christian, but I bet you’ll still think it’s funny.
I have a question. While we’re discussing evolution, why is it so negative to be associated with “cavemen” and “monkeys”? Why is that so bad for people?
Why do you give up things for Lent? Is there a Biblical thing for it? Or is it just a tradition? I’m not trying to be rude, I’m just curious.
Gah!! It didn’t work! I will figure it out…
51: That is, of course, assuming that God would not have created the universe with the apperance of age.
whats so wrong about evolving from monkeys?
(55),
No links allowed, GQ. The Rules, you know. Besides, we’re much more interested in what you have to say than in what some anonymous animator whipped up.
i like monkeys! im honered to evolve from them!
54- People just don’t like to think that they’re related to monkeys. That was part of the reason Darwin was ridiculed, even though he stated that people evolved from a common ancestor, not from monkeys.
Fasting is to help you think about suffering, and make easter seem even more happy. Don’t worry, you aren’t close to rude.
55- Outside links are generally blocked, and it doesn’t seem very revelant.
Lent is because Jesus spent 40 days in the desert and was tempted thrice by the devil. I think. Maybe that’s another holiday… My video was revlevant and hilarious. If you go to American Greetings and search We Are Easter Bunnies. It will be the one with a blue bunny, a pink bunny, and a white bunny on the icon. There. I got around the link, and it’s easter related so it’s relevant.
47- I would like to reproduce a letter written by the director of inter faith affairs of the Anti-Defamation league to the editor of Slate.com on this topic.
Letter to the Editor
Slate.com September 19, 2003
To the Editor:
Steven Waldman (“Passion Misplay,” Sept. 17) claims that we “should not care” about the question of who killed Jesus. But history has shown clearly that people do care very much about the answer. It is therefore critical to get the answer right in order to prevent more anti-Semitic violence and prejudice that past wrong answers have caused. To ignore reality for what “should” be is to abdicate moral responsibility.
Waldman claims that the “Jews did kill Jesus.” No scholar, historian or informed reader of Christian scriptures makes such an absurd statement. Jews never crucified anyone, since crucifixion was a Roman punishment for the political crime of sedition against the Roman Empire.
The Jewish mode of capital punishment–rarely used–was stoning, not crucifixion which is repugnant to all Jewish judicial and ethical values. Pontius Pilate was a ruthless dictator, and Jewish priests were his subordinate appointees who were in no position to “force him” to do anything. The decision of crucifixion and its implementation was in the jurisdiction of the Roman authorities alone.
Pope John Paul II has called the age-old anti-Semitic theology that the Jews bear responsibility for the death of Jesus an “unjust and erroneous interpretation” of Christian scriptures. Waldman is correct that some have interpreted the gospels to refer to “all the Jews” as being in collusion with Rome to execute Jesus.
This noxious claim is now theologically and historically discredited, but “The Passion” continues to portray it. The film fails to depict even one Jew who is not a proto-Christian as opposing the execution, or having any compassion for a brutalized and mutilated victim. Quite the contrary, it graphically depicts a huge Jewish mob and all Jewish authorities forcing an unwilling Pilate to execute Jesus.
Yes, some Jews may have opposed Jesus. Very few dispute this. But in contrast to the film, an accurate reading of gospels, history and current Catholic theology all indicate that these Jews were few in number and represented neither Judaism nor the Jewish people generally.
The problem is not the gospels, nor primarily with those who take scriptures seriously. It is with the illicit weaving together of disparate passages of Christian scripture to create a false negative stereotype of Jews, with the use of extra-biblical and openly anti-Semitic mystical visions of a 19th nun, and with a blatant disregard for historical accuracy that markets itself as “the truth.” Scholars—both Jewish and Christian–have found “The Passion” to rely heavily on these techniques.
Christians should celebrate the passion of Jesus as the central narrative of their faith. But as all responsible Christian religious leaders insist, this must be done without anti-Semitic and anti-Judaic teachings. ADL asks of Mel Gibson that he do nothing less.
Sincerely,
Rabbi Eugene Korn
Director, Interfaith Affairs
40 & 48 Ahhh…… it makes sense now.
~Should there be any changes to the list? I don’t want to repost it unneccessarily because it takes up so much space.
~OK GQ, that was interesting. It isn’t really Easter related though, because bunnies and food weren’t following Jesus. Just might not be a good example of a religion for someone who’s already confused.
~62- Very good.
I don’t agree with the re-interpretation of days, because it seems as if the RCC is just trying to remain completely true without looking at itself. The old testement bible is a collection of Jewish stories, and I don’t think that it would be possible for any stories to be passed on for that long without changing somehow. If we all saw it as a good guide for living instead of
a literal history, we could stop arguing so much.
47: Excuse me, you have no grasp of history. First of all, The Holy Roman Empire emerged from the Franks towards the end of the first millenium. The Carolingians and the Merovingians where Frankish tribes, Charlemagne was crowed Holy Roman Emperor by the Pope against his will, a brilliant political move on behalf of the Pope, who now had strong ties to the most powerful military leader in Europe.
As for Jesus, he was killed by the Romans, in a Roman court. The lie that the Jews killed him is widespread throughout history, a smear campaign by the Church against their enemies. And Jews were prosecuted before the death of Christ. Pharaoh, maybe? It is historical fact that the Jews lived in Egypt under tyrannical rule until they managed to escape. What you are doing is inciting unbased hatred against a Religion and people that have never done anything bad to anyone. Why is this tolerated when I get banned for simple name calling?
50: Not at all. Giving you this historical background to the first official appearance of Christianity gives you an idea of how it was first used, and enables us to make analogies. For example, Bush uses the Religious Right as an excuse to wage war on Iraq. Now, most people suspect, and probably rightly so, that the real motive is oil and personal vendetta, but many people in America believe that it is God’s Will. In Italy the Church has become a political power, prostituting itself for political campaigning. Honestly, it really isn’t hard to see, just look beyond Fox News and seek out the advice of someone else who isn’t ignorant and biased.
I really am sorry to call you out on this, Fridgy, but you just quoted the bible as being historical fact. There is no evidence other than the Book of Exodus that the Jews were slaves in Egypt. Not that some parts of the story may be more accurate than others, Jews living in Egypt certainly seems plausible, vs. parting of the red sea, for example.
The Bible is symbolic. Some is inaccurate, and some is symbolic, and a teeny bit is accurate, but even that is often misunderstood and people interpret it to fit their own ideas. I mean, these people were, like basically ancient history and a lot of the stuff they said has different meanings then if they said it now. And the Bible’s been re-translated a billion times, and bits have no doubt been changed, and et cetera… Anyways, it’s far from totally reliable.
FS- Could we have a civil discussion about religion? I would like to post something but I am afraid that you will start attacking me about my beliefs. You are not always right, there is more than one way to be biased, and you can give people information without trying to sound superior to them.
Why do people always think Fridge is attacking them? Maybe he is, but Fridgey doesn’t sound very vicious to me.
69- He hasn’t attacked me, but I was reading his comments and he seems to attack other people.
24 – Catholic: Kiara
67 – Yep. Most of the Bible probably isn’t historically correct, even though some of the base events might be. It’s mostly, wel, whatever someone interprets it as. It turns out being rather confusing overall, becc ause whatever you think the Bible menas, someone else probably thinks something else. Blah.
i am so lucky ,ive got an athiest dad and a Christian mom , and neither really care what religion i am just as long as i dont join some Satanistic cult.
65 – *ahem* Excuse me! Here’s what happened:
Jesus preached the good news and broke tradition, which angered the Jewish high priests.
The Jewish high priests arrested him, after one of Jesus’s disciples betrayed him and turned him over to the church court.
After the Jewish high priests arrested him, they hastily had a trial in the middle of the night before anyone could stop them. Eventually they got Jesus to say he was the son of god (which he was, but nobody belived that) and so they gave him a death scentence for “blasphemy”.
Then they marched him to Herod the king to give the death scentence. But he said it was not his authority to do that, and kicked them out.
Then Jesus was marched over to Pontius Pilate (or however you spell that) who found Jesus not guilty. But the Jewish crowd howled for Jesus to be crucified. PP was in a muddle: if he let the innocent man go free, he would lose power and start a riot. But if he crucified him, then he would be brutally killing an innocent man. So he let the Jewish crowd decide what to do with Jesus.
After that, Jesus was flogged, mocked, beaten, marched over to Golgatha, nailed to a post, and left hanging there to die by Roman soldiers just doing their orders.
So even though the Romans executed him, the Jewish crowed decided.
And anyway, 71 is right. The Bible has been translated a hundred times into a hundred languages, so things can get slightly altered over time.
Charlemange was crowned king by the pope, who by the will of God crowned him king of the Holy Roman Empire. Charlemange wanted to be king, but he wanted people to think HE had made himself king, not the pope.
FS, have you read the Bible? I’m just wondering, since you’re so opposed to it.
FS- 47- Although you’re wrong about the Exodus, I can see what you’re trying to say about the toleration. One person’s beliefs can be questioned though, and insulting someone will only push them away from what could be an eye-opening discussion.
50- Things can change. If the Roman Catholic Church weren’t around today, a lot of people would be hurt. Just because it was bad back then doesn’t mean it’s still evil today.
70- FS knows his facts, and feels very strongly about them. Try to just read, think, and respond civilly.
74- FS can know facts and feel strongly about them, but he could be civil when informing other people.
I’m not trying to stir up trouble here or anything…but sometimes I wonder how there’s anyway to substantiate the various events in religious texts, and I don’t mean the outright divine aspects, I mean the flow of time and events. Are there written texts separate from religious ones that refer to Jesus and what was going on? (Or Mohammad or Buddha for that matter).
I’m just curious to know.
Davidude(73)- Um, hello. Read post 62
(76),
There are no independent (non-Biblical) contemporary descriptions of Jesus. The Buddha was a wandering guru, and nobody wrote down anything he said until long after he was dead. (Fortunately, he had a simple message and taught it as easy-to-memorize lists.) I’m not sure whether Indian records of the time say anything about him, but I’d be surprised if they did. Mohammed sounds like the best bet–but he lived in a backwater, and the Byzantines and other major powers didn’t pay much attention until his successors came knocking at their doors (or, more likely, knocking them down).
46: Your “history” covers the spread of Western Christianity only, aka Roman Catholicism. Check your facts.
(78) Hmm, interesting… This is the aspect of theology that intrigues me. I always wonder about this. Aren’t the bones of all the Saints in the catacombs of the Vatican? Or somewhere…So we could say that Paul and Peter were real historical figures but there isn’t any solid, tangible proof of Jesus. Of course there’s the tomb he was buried in… Now that I think about it, were the scriptures written during the time of Jesus?
I don’t mean any of this in a “You can’t prove Jesus was real” way, I’m just looking at it in a “piece together actual proven facts” way. It’s neat to see parallels in history and religion.
79: And Christianity first gained hold in the Roman Empire, more than a millenia before religious fanatics were thrown out of England for being too extreme. I am of course referring to those who first “colonized” America. The first use of Christianity was made in Roman Europe.
74:How would many people be hurt if the Church weren’t around today?
73: I have read not all of the Bible, but many parts, in various religion classes throughout school.
66: It is generally accepted by historians that the jews lived in Egypt for some time, then left.
RDC, post your beliefs, and if I disagree with something you say, I will argue against it. Just don’t be overly sensitive and argue back.
As for Christianity and the Church, and all major religions, as political powers… Why do countries have an ‘official’ religion?
do you guys know about the Phelps Family? The Westboro Baptist Church? Go watch “The Most Hated Family In America” on youtube.
36 – I will not change your name every five seconds on the religions list every time you change your name. If you find a name you’re content with and decide to keep it, and stop changing your name every two days, I will put it there. I’ll change you to Sand Demon now, but unless you choose a permanent name, I really don’t feel like re-doing the whole religions list every time you change your name.
I know FS was talking about the Koran, but I’m not sure who else. If FantasyFan was here she would be able to explain this really well. But I have read both the Koran and the Bible, and (I’m not trying to stir up any controversy here, just saying what I’ve noticed) I found a lot more images of peace in the Koran than in the Bible.
And here’s an updated religions list:
Muslim
FantasyFan?!?!
Jewish
Sphinx
elassë~adael
Quintessentia
groundhog22
hypermoocow
ha
FairyDragon
Reform
yellowsharpiemarker
Julieb
Reconstructionist
Kiki The Great
Anata~ChinTsu
Conservative
Copper Bigfoot
Brave Sir Robin
Zyviva
Orthodox
Phoenix
Jessie
Jewish Athiest
Lizzie
emmatheduck
Christian
cHill
Donaldo
MontgomeryGurl
Ninja For Christ
Eccentric the Afterthought
Kagcomix
Lutheran
Queen-o-random
Capricious
Catholic
Kiara
Romana2
Ebeth
davidude
Piggy the Proud Catholic
Eastern Orthodox
Sunrunner Bramblewood
Dot Keet
Quaker
Purple Panda
Zallie
Taiwan Hippo Fan
elassë~adael
Red Tailed HAWK
Liesolotte
Protestant
book_addict
VanZepplin
Otzi
Mormon (LDS)
Skwerl Overlord
Veralidaine
Zyka
Methodist
grnqween2011
Presbyterian
Elizabeth
Baptist
jammin j
Hindu
♥ shriya siolashrwa jeffica ♥
Buddhist
100% cotton
Agnostic
Sweet Melpomene
curious and questioning
SupremeMuser2000
Lady Visala of Reverie
Wiccan
emogrl
FairyDragon
Mixed Bag of Random Beliefs
Pentatonikk
Gwendolyn of the Eastern Seas
Otzi
Sand Demon
Axa
elassë~adael
curious and questioning
Musketeer Number 5
Sweet Melpomene
Druid Reconstructionist
Millie
Atheist
Skipper Nancy
johnkerry
Darth Yoda
Lizzie
penguini
violindino
Yup
Bobbyjkl
First Sorceress
Shadowkat
curious and questioning
Potato Chip
Cat’s Meow
Spiritual Athiest
The Bev
Harmony with short red hair
Radical Athiest
Queenie J
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM)
Necromancer
Dark duke of darkness
Asatruar
Frigid Symphony
Green Cow
curious and questioning
By the way, the religion is called Asatru, while a follower is called Asatruar.
79- yes, yes, that’s what I’m trying to say. You’re talking about catholicism. Well, many Christian sects today felt the same way as FS about Roman Catholicism and broke away. Some of them had good reasons, some didn’t (Henry the eighth). Yes, they were persecuted-by other Christians. I’m not trying to fight against Roman Catholicism: I know tons of Catholics and they’re all great people. But the church was corrupt around that time period. So, FS, please make it clear just what you’re ‘against’. You can’t just fight Christianity, because Christianity fights itself.
65- ‘ignorant and biased?’ Are you trying to put me on the side of Bush’s personal war? I beg your pardon.
83- Put me on as Christian. Just Christian, none of the subcatagories. I don’t really like the way the Church has spilt up.
85: All of Christianity. All of it. It has always been a political power, and always will be. And Catholicism was the first, strongest, and oldest form of Christianity. Still is.
86: Oh, in your opinion it should have remained a single organization with one widespread dogma? I much prefer the Church this way, seperate entities are easier to fight.
83 – Just so you know, curious and questioning is under the mixed bag of random belifs and Green cow.
86 – Yea. Jesus prayed that all his followers would be one, and now look at the mess.
Random: Why are there so many Jews, Christians, and Atheists on MuseBlog? Why aren’t there more Muslims or Bhuddists (wait, Buddhists probably don’t own computers) or Hindus?
(FS) After you went to bed, I was part of the final force that fought furiously to end BunnyBlog. My smiley infantry and firing kicked those bunnies out at approximately 7:00 MuseBlog time. I helped save you from a fate that was ruining your Sunday! But you never knew that because those threads were saved as drafts so they wouldn’t clutter up the blog. You can have a look at how it ended here. https://musefanpage.com/blog/?p=769
54- The reason its bad is because they had no intelligence. Cavemen did, and Im fine with being related to a caveman. (and geico.com would be soooooo much easier). But monkeys are stupid. Maybe they can learn basic skills like making fires or combing hair, but can they design a house? Can they write a book? Can they engage in a conversation about absolutly ANYTHING? No. But we can. Thats the big difference. And dont anyone forget it.
89- Yea, I was wondering that too. Maybe it has something to do with not owning a computor, but maybe blogging and texting is looked down upon. I dont know. I wish someone would explain it, cuz i dont have many Muslim or Hindu friends.
83- Just a question: Why are you even taking the time to make such an extinsive list? You seem pretty annnoyed that people are changing their minds and names and all sorts of stuff, so why do it? Does anyone really care? I dont. No offense. If you want to continue, you can always put me under catholic.
90: and this belongs in the religion thread because…?
91: Monkeys are a species that are further down the evolutive line than humans. We evolved from them, but we aren’t monkeys. And don’t say they’re stupid. Koko the monkey knows sign language.
We didn’t evolve from monkeys. I wish people would check there facts before bashing evolution. We share a common ancestor with apes. Both genus’ (I believe that is the correct branch, but I’m not completely sure) evolved seperately.
95- The orangutans at the National Zoo can communicate using abstract symbols.
We didn’t evolve from monkeys! A common ancestor !
Technically, humans, chimps, bonobos, gorillas, and orangutans are all classified as apes. All of them/us evolved from a now-extinct common ancestor, which was also an ape. Further back, apes and monkeys evolved from a common ancestor.
But this doesn’t really belong on a Religions thread either. Should I start an Evolution thread?
98- YOU BET!!! *rubs hands* ohh this should be fun
96- RIGHT ON!!
87-And why not other religions? I would say that they are also political powers, to varying extents.
Axa (80),
None of the books of the New Testament were written until decades after the Crucifixion. Wikipedia gives an interesting description of what is known about their origins:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_testament
80: Yes, the scriptures were written during Jesus’s time, but compiled later.
81: Christianity did not first spread in the Roman Empire, that was Catholicism. Eastern Christianity was not founded when Englanders borke from the Catholics, that was Protestantism. As I said, check your facts. After Jesus died, he still had followers. The Jews who believed in everything He stood for eventually became the Christians. His disciples continued to do His work by spreading the good news, and all but one of them were martyred. Much later, once Christianity was organized, some followers decided the Pope was infallible and so they broke off and became Roman Catholicism.
103- I thought all of them were killed! And Judus was not killed, he commited suicide. : (
Slghtly new topic- What do people think about Intelligent Design?
93 – I just have a Microsoft Word document with all the HTML already in it. Every few weeks I update it. It’s really not hard to do, and I thought people liked the list, but I’ll stop posting it if people don’t want it.
98 – An evolution thread would be awesome!
105 – I don’t know much about it *wikis*
(103, 81),
The Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches split in 1054. Protestantism came along about 500 years later–with Martin Luther and others in Central Europe, and later (for different reasons) Henry VIII in England.
104: John (the one who wrote Revelation) was not martyred, but he died while in exile on the island of Patmos.
108-Oh, thanks. Thats just as bad though.
106-GO TO THE EVOLUTION THREAD
43- Not necessarily. My parents would probably accept that I had made my own decisions and let it be.
54- I give up things for lent to see if I can do it. Test my self-control.
95- Er… knew. She died a while back. Though lots of gorrilas have learned sing launguage over the years, and can paint and show emotions. Hmm. This really belongs on the evolution thread.
…And do you believe in rock and roll?
Can music, save your mortal soul
And…can ya’ teach me how to dance
Reeeeal sloooow…
110, whoever mentioned this: In first grade I read the book Koko’s Kitten and wrote a letter to her. Somehow as a result, I joined some sort of club that basically asked for money through the mail. Koko is still alive. There is actually much controversy surrounding Koko’s use of language; see the Wikipedia article on her.
93: Because it’s interesting. Go list lovers!
94 – Because this was where I thought you would be most likely to see it.
I will not be on MuseBlog tomorrow…it’s Good Friday you know, the holiest day of the year in Christianity.
111-Oh, Im not saying I dont like lists. I am an extensive list maker myself. I have a whole list of songs I would like on my iPod and another one about them in order from least to greatest. I even list things I have already done on to-do lists just so I can cross them out!!!
52-I don’t mean to start anything, but the thing was, the Jewish priests did crucify Jesus because they were under Roman law. They had to follow Roman Law because Rome was more powerful than the church at that time. That is why they crucified him.
66-Parting the Red Sea should be believable because it was an act of God! Not Moses. It is just as believableas any other part in the ook of Exodus and there is other proof that the Jews were slaves in Egypt. Read in your history book!
114-depressing, isnt it?
ANother rant on evolution:There is proof that evolution occured in the world. If you had to live in the Ice Age, you would probably start evolving/adapting and growing fur, so you could better survive. But the part of evolution that doesn’t make sense is this:Why would an organism want to go from a single eukaryotic cell to a fish to an ape to a human? What reason would there be(and how is it possible) for a fish to grow lungs and be able to live on land. That is like changing your gender. Without plastic surgeons and dermatologists and all sorts of other doctors, it isn’t possible! Why would it want to? If all fish wanted to become apes, and all apes wanted to become humans, then we probably wouldn’t have any fish or apes! Check out the videos: “Creatures That Defy Evolution” for more info. And GAPAs-please post this! I know it should probably be going on the Evolution thread, but Evolution and Darwinism is also part of many major world religions, because Christians believe that all creatures were made how they already were and that homo sapiens were never apes, they were made by God as who we are today!
117- yes that should have been on the evolution thread. please contribute to the evolution descussion.
115- What proof? As a Jew, I would very much like to believe it, but I have never been presented with anything that either confirms or denies that the Jews lived in egypt or were slaves. And when was the last time you saw a miracle? This sort of dogmatic, arbitrary, blind faith is exactly why you get shot down by FridgidSymphony.
Well, I have not seen any major miracles like parting the Red Sea or manna from heaven, but that does not matter. I say shame on you! As a Jew, you should know that God is performing small miracles everyday in your life. Part of your religion and my religion is to believe that the Exodus and all the miracles performed did occur.
GAPA-sorry, I read in my Bible and you were write the Jews did not crucify Jesus. But the Jews did put Jesus on trial. They brought him to a Roman judge, named Pilate, but Pilate did not find anything wrong with him. To protect himself, he asked the jury people who they wanted to be set free-Jesus Christ or Barbarras. Barbarras was a man guilty of other crimes, but I am not sure what they were. Pilate was a crafty man, and knew the jury would say that they wanted Jesus set free, but the Jewish priests bribed the members of the jury, and the jury then said they wanted Jesus crucified.
118-I’m sorry, I will go post that on the evolution thread.
102-Sorry I post so much, but I forgot to mention this. As a Christian, and I know this belongs on evolution, but since you brought it up, I might as well talk about it. So as I was saying, as a Christian, I do not believe that evolution is real!
I also forgot to say that if you want proof that Jesus was real and that he really was crucified, read Egeria’s Diary. It is a real diary of a Spanish woman named Egeria who took a pilgrimmage to Jerusalem and the Holy Lands. At least read some excerpts! It is so cool! It proves Jesus was the true Son of GOD!!!!!!!
122- How does what some crazy old lady wrote in her diary prove that Jesus is the Son of God?
Face it, Christians. There is no PROOF that Jesus was the Son of God. If there was, it wouldn’t be a FAITH, now would it? If there was PROOF, EVERYONE WOULD BE A CHRISTIAN!!
Athiests of the world, unite!
19- Finally, someone who recognizes the evil of Christianity.
Religion Lists- There are a lot of athiests on this blog! Doesn’t that show you how athiests throng to a cultured media blog…. thing, and how christians just generally stay away? Except for you christian guys… I don’t have anything against you, but there are more than a billion christians. There are about a million athiests. There are almost as many athiests on this thread as christians, even though christians are WAY more populous! What’s that say to you???
I’m NOT trying to convert anyone.
You know, “X” was an ancinet abbreviation for Christ. From now on, i’ll call christians “X-ans” for short.
114- And that’s still the situation today. Rome *is* the church. The Vatican has an extremely large amount of power, while the X-an nations of the world just grovel and obey. Do you realize that the church’s policy since 188-something has been that the Pope cannot make any mistakes whatsover? Is he a *gasp* GOD ON EARTH or something?????? That violates your “1-god in 3-persons” thingy! (Or maybe its in 4-persons?!?) Do you realize that the church’s position until 1976 was that all Jews were guilty forever for something their ancestors may or may not have done (crucifying Jesus) and that they should suffer horribly??? What kind of barbaric religion is that?????
Also, X-an kids at my school are jerks.
COMMON X-AN MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT ATHIESTS ARE HERE CORRECTED:
-Athiests DO NOT worship Satan.
-Athiests DO NOT burn Bibles.
-Athiests DO NOT have mental issues.
-Athiests DO NOT believe in nothing.
-Athiests ARE NOT demons from hell sent to torment “good, law-abiding” X-ans.
-Athiests ARE cool.
Cmon worship this , pagan people!
hahahahaaa
LoA (125),
Atheists, however, should learn to spell “atheist.”
A few other misconceptions: non-Catholic Christians (who make up about 50% of Christians worldwide) do not obey the Pope, and the Catholic church has no power over them. Within the Catholic church, the doctrine of papal infallibility does not mean that the Pope never makes any mistakes whatsoever. It means that they believe he is always right whenever he makes a definitive statement about religious matters — something no Pope has done since 1950. You can read about it in Wikipedia’s “Papal Infallibility” article.
Happy Good Friday, everyone! I don’t have any school today because most people would be at church anyway, so they (the school board) decided to not have school on Good Friday. Yay! Ooh, and Happy Easter in advance.
121- I’ve always heard that Barrabas was “guilty of murder and worse”
128- yeah, this is the first good friday that we’ve gotten off from school for as long as I can remember, but no one is ever there on good friday so we don’t get anything done when we do have school
Donaldo- You refuse to change your views despite clear proof they are wrong. Historically, there is no evidence to support your claim that the Jews were responsible for Jesus’ death. If you have not done so, please read the letter I posted in post 62. After, If you still maintain that the Jews killed Jesus, I would like you to look at this in a different light. If, as you claim, Jesus was put on trial in a jewish court, it probably was the Sanhedrin, correct? And was it not true that blasphemy was a crime in this court? And did Jesus not commit blasphemy by claiming he was the son of god under the law of the time? Therefore, the trial was fair and just. If today someone were to claim this, as a few claim they are reincarnations of Jesus, would you not consider them mentally unstable? And if a crowd were so easily swayed in a decision that would mean a man’s life, Jesus was not very good at his job, was he? I’m sorry if this sounds like I’m attacking your faith, but it is seriously offensive that anyone could believe this nonsense.
Haha…last year on Good Friday, my brother broke his arm…naturally, he picked a day when most hospitals in our area were closed, and of course it had to be the day before a weekend, so they would be closed for another two days…luckily, they didn’t have to re-break it…oy, that was a hassle.
112: Wouldn’t that be Pascha (Easter)?
117: All Christians don’t believe that. Here’s a new concept: maybe God made people using evolution, like a tool. There was a really neat article in Discover about the lady who discovered red blood cells in dinosaur bones. She’s a born-again Christian I could really identify with (now there’s a first). She was talking about how it makes God all the more powerful if He created everything through such a complicated process. It’s mind-blowing to imagine the depths of the great plan.
123: Well, you’re half right. Religion is all about faith. It’s sacreligious to try to find “proof” of God, which is also why I do not at all support creationists who try to twist science. This was also brought up in the article I mentioned. But if there were proof of everything Christians believed, I don’t think everyone would be Christian. First, a religion isn’t just about history, it’s about ideas. How can you prove something like morals and ethics. If every event in the Bible was proved to be factually accurate, there would still be people with different beliefs.
124: “christians just generally stay away”? Please stop stereotyping. It’s not appreciated on the blog. There are many intellectual Christians.
And just so you know, there are half as many atheists as there are Christians on our list.
Not that I think it means much. It’s just demographics.
Small Question- What is Good Friday? I’m an atheist, so I don’t know.
134: The day Jesus was crucified.
125-You must remember that Peter, one of Jesus’ deciples was the first Pope. He is not ‘God on earth’ he is the leader of the Christian church. Since, Christians belive christianity is the “right” religion (why wouldnt they?) we belive the Pope is kind of like Jesus’ messenger. He is NOT God. And in 1976, the church was run mainly by the aligarchs, who were behind the Pope.
124- WE DO NOT STAY AWAY!! Maybe not as many Christians subscribe to Muse.
103-Just a clarification;Christianity did spread first in the Roman Empire. Catholicism is just a certain form of Christianity. There are many different types of Christians.
123-Egeria took a pilgrimmage only about a century after Jesus’s death. She saw Golgatha, which is the place where Jesus was put on the cross, and she visited places where Jesus taught his disciples. You cannot say that she is crazy, until you read her diary!!!
134-Good Friday is the day that Jesus was crucified. It is three days before Easter, because in the Bible it says Jesus was dead for three days, and then he rose again. The day he rose again is what is now called Easter. And now, I have a question for you. How do you define Atheists? Is it people who just don’t believe in a god? Or is it just people who are opposed to just Christianity?
130-I am not trying to offend your religion by saying they crucified Jesus. Read my post 121. It clarifies it. I made a mistake and said that Jeus was put on trial in the Jewish court, but really the priests bribed the jury to say that Jesus was guilty. You must remember that, in Roman times, they did have a modern court system. Also, to answer your question, yes, if someone was walking around claiming that they were Jesus reincarnated, I would think they were mentally unstable. This is because in Revelations, the last book of the Bible, it says that Jesus will appear in a flash of light, and save all those who believe in Hm, and then, the world will end. Scientists do not believe the Earth will be destroyed for another 6 billion years. OK?
123-NO! If there was proof that Jesus was the Son of God(which there is), then not everyone would be Christians. There would still be those few out there who refuse to believe that he was the Son of God. Think of Hitler. We have proof that what he did to the world was wrong. But that doesn’t keep neo-Nazi groups from starting up, does it? There are still people who think that he was right.
117-You may be right! It’s just that, in the Bible it says that the first humans/humanoid creatures were Adam and Eve, so you may be right! I really like that idea that it would make him all the more powerful making such a complex system! Thank you for posting that!
Whoops, I wrote 117, but that is my post! I meant to say 132. Sorry!
139. LofA is right. If you could prove religion it wouldn’t be religion…thats why someone who follows religion BELIEVES or has FAITH.. (And since when did we PROVE what Hitler did was wrong??!!)
Oh, great, suddenly we have people supporting Nazism (or at least questioning whether killing millions is wrong). Do you know how offensive that statement is?
(123, 124, 125) Okay I feel the need to straighten you out here to help you. If you continue to state that Christians are evil you’re going to continue to get crap from those kids. Plain and simple. They sound really passionate (in some of the wrongs ways, but oh well) about their religion so if you go around saying it’s evil they’ll go right back and say you’re evil. Set an example as an atheist and show them you’re a good person, which is what they should be doing anyways as Christians.
Also, MuseBlog is not exactly a high cultured media blog. O_o You see what you’re doing? Exactly what fundamental religious types do, state the virtues of what they believe and only the pitfalls of other religions. IT’S A VICIOUS CYCLE don’t perpetuate it.
Also, as I am technically Catholic, I feel the need to tell you that the Catholic Church’s nature has always been more ceremonial. We don’t hold mass worships of the Pope or anything weird, he’s a symbolic figurehead as far as I’m concerned. And people criticize what he does just as much as the next person, even my little old Catholic granny who wouldn’t hurt a fly. D:
(138) Atheists are by definition people who don’t believe in any god or divine power. It’s not so much an opposition to Christianity (that sounds too aggressive) but more an real and honest belief that there is no god or God, if you will.
143. You need to read more carefully.
I think Hitler was a terrible, messed up person and anyone who followed him was/is also messed up. I also have relatives who died in concentration camps. I don’t support him, never have, and never will (and never said I did either).
All I said was that you can’t PROVE what he did was wrong because there is no way to prove right vs. wrong. It, like religion, is what people simply belief.
I dont think my religion is sexist and if some people have a problem with it they can at least state it calmly. Not every single Muslim in the world agrees with Taliban, in fact most of the Muslims I know think that they are so misguided they shouldnt even be qualified as true Muslims.
For those of you who are atheists, what do you believe in? I’m just curious.
And for those of you who are pagans, what do you worship?
142-Well lets put it this way. If you were one of the 6mil Jews he killed by torture, gas, or starvation, would you aggree with him? Hitler destroyed gazillions of peoples lives, harmed even more, and left an impression on the world. That impression was not a good one. I also have relations who have died in concentration camps. Hitler also harmed homo’s and gypsies, not just Jews. I think Musketeer#5 is right. People who follow Hitler is/was messed up.
Just a factoid here, did you know that Hitler actually wanted to be an artist, and his dad forced him into politics? How different would this world be if Hitler had become a new Michaelangelo??
(145) The problem is in your example. You’re talking philosophy where most people see history; I understand your meaning but few people are going to say that Hitler was right.
(146) Thank you for saying that. I’m not Muslim, but I think more people should know that just because the aspect of your religion they’re exposed to is a bad side, it doesn’t mean it is as a whole. This goes for people who think all Christianity is a bunch of zealots as well, or people who think all atheists hate Christians. There’s more to belief than meets the eye.
(I hope no one replies with “BUT CHRISTIANS ARE ALL ZEALOTS/ALL ATHEISTS ARE JERKS/ALL MUSLIMS HATE US!!11” because that would only prove your narrowminded tendencies).
149-aren’t all religions narrowminded in some way or the other?
oh yeah, i decided to revisit the MB and see what you all were up to while i was away(haven’t been on for a week! yo, watup!)
it seems to be a big issue as to who killed jesus. i would agree with the statement that the romans killed him but the jews antagonized it. that does not mean that i am bigoted towards jews. my religion teaches that the present generation is not going to hell for the sins of the last! jews are people also. i think that in a general sense, people are more important than any thing else.
to people of my religion, good friday and easter are times of celebration because the son of god died for the sins of the world.
fs-i am not going to start another mud-slinging fight in this blog, so lets all praise the lord(oh shoot, you don’t believe in a god. wateva!)
i believe that evolution is unbiblical. i believe that god created the whole world in 6 24-hour days and rested on the 7th as written in the bible. if you claim that “days” is purely objective to what god meant, why can you believe every other thing in the bible? wouldn’t that not also be purely objective?
well, glad to be back on the blog! greetings and pies to everyone!
Does it honestly matter what religion you are so long as you believe in God?
I mean, I’m a Methodist Christian and all but Im not going around condemning people not of my religion….
I can see where Aethists vs. Uh..Everyone else would come in conflict
47- you’re wrong! the Jews took Jesus to the Romans because they could not find a law that would allow them to kill him. the romans DID have a law. it was something like anyone who rebells against the king dies. The Romans were scared and did not want to kill him. The Jews forced it upon the Romans that Jesus should die, so he was killed. *note that Jesus Christ had the worst death in history*
151- ABSOLUTLY!
fist of all what do you believe? how many gods do you believe in?
if you are TRUELY a christan (most people who claim they are aren’t) do you believe that you are a sinner and need to be saved? do you believe that pure faith is enough to save you? do you believe that Jesus is God and he died for ALL of your sins?
i don’t understand how someone could think that by just believing in god will save you. The devil belives in god, but he isn’t saved. he doesn’t think that he needs to be saved, and he isn’t
(153) Since when was Jesus God? Last I heard, Jesus was the Son of God. Now, I see how you could read that he is in a way God if we look at it in certain ways, but that is not what the Bible teaches.
You say that pure faith is enough to save you, and then contradict yourself by saying believing isn’t enough. Then what is enough? I hardly think the devil believes in God the way people here are saying. He believes in the way that you or I believe the sky is blue, but not in a religious sense.
143(Julieb)-For once, I am agreeing with you! That is so offending, Musketeer! I know there is no proven, accurate scale of right vs. wrong, but you are saying that killing millions of people may be right, just because there is no scale that can prove it? That is pure evil. Juat about everyone in the world would agree he was evil, and yet you don’t admit it because there is no balance of the two!
Muslims are not evil terrorists! I know muslims and they are very kind! The only Muslims you see on TV are extremists who are taking their religion so far, that they end up going against their teachings! I am not Muslim. I am Christian, but I am standing up for them!
152-The Romans were not scared of Jesus, they simply could not find anything wrong with him-just a clarification.
145- I admit, you’re right. You cannot prove something is right or wrong. Right and wrong stem from primeval instincts on the survival of the species and cultural views. However, because it does the species no good to kill 11 million of it’s members and no culture has, as far as I know, ever endorsed mass murder (with exceptions for special war-related offenses, which would include Nazis, which is why the figure below is not 100%) we can look back and pretty much expect that 99.9% of humans will agree that what Hitler did was wrong.
I agree with Muskateer’s view that there is no scale on how to prove how good or bad something is, but the analogy was bad.
just to clarify something for all Atheists and non-Christians, there is more to Christianity than the Catholic Church and the Pope! See post 127!
What’s the general feeling about reformations in the Christian faith with anyone who feels that the Catholic Church is corrupt? There’s Protestant and Greek Orthodox too.
159: Well, just to clarify, Orthodoxy is not a reformation of Catholicism. Christianity had no denominations until the Catholics broke off.
156-who ever said annything about muslims? muslims on the media may have done very evil stuff(i think we’ll all agree that terrorism is evil) but that does not mean all muslims are evil. christians have done some very evil stuff(inquisition and others) but that does not make christians evil.
okay, Jesus is God. to get that you have to understand the makeup of god. it is said in the bible that god is a trinity. God the father, god the son, and god the holy spirit. its kinda like how if you get a bowl of water and split it up between three glasses. thay are all different aspects of the same bowl of water. jesus is one of gods aspects.
153-when you said “if you are TRUELY a christan (most people who claim they are aren’t) do you believe that you are a sinner and need to be saved? do you believe that pure faith is enough to save you? do you believe that Jesus is God and he died for ALL of your sins?” i would answer yes to all three questions. faith is enough to save you. what you have to have faith in is not GOD. you have to have faith that the only way to god is through jesus. “i am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the father except through me”-john 14:6. this is a direct quote from the gospel, jesus’ exact words.
well, thats all
150-religions, maybe, but not necessarily their followers
155- that’s not what she’s saying. she’s saying there’s no way to PROVE it, even if it is the truth.
I agree with everyone who is defending Moslems, but no one actually said anything against it, did they?
161: Actually, just for clarification, the Bible does not say that God is a “trinity”; the word is found nowhere in the Bible. That does not, however, mean that it is not true. For more on this, I suggest you read the book “Velvet Elvis” by Rob Bell.
The Bible does state that God is part of the holy trinity. Reread yours just to make sure! *snickers silently*
156-did you read my post correctly? I never said Muslims were evil! And I might have sounded random, but that was just in case that somehow the topic came up, so I wanted to settle it once and for all, before it even started!
D_Q is correct that the word “trinity” does not appear in the Bible. It was coined by a theologian we call Tertullian around A.D. 200.
158- so, following your logic, most of the world’s population would agree that what America is doing in Iraq is wrong, maybe we haven’t killed 11 million people, but do numbers count when it comes down to killing innocent people?…but I don’t think 99.9% of people think what we are doing in Iraq is wrong simply because bush still has a little approval rating…(30%, i think…) If you look at hat Hitler did 70 years ago and what bush is doing now there isn’t a whole lot of difference…and I expect people to argue this, so… go ahead
166: Hasn’t this been discussed like 5 million times already, on the Hot Topics thread, among other places? Plus, this has nothing at all to do with religion. You’re talking politics now.
167- yeah, this is politics, but both wars that i mentioned were related to religion. Hitler killed the Jews while he was trying to “help” the christians and we are killing Muslims as we try to “help” them end their Sunni-Shiite battles (and create peace in general). So the wars i talked about did have to do with religion, and we were talking about the idea of right and wrong, so maybe if I rephrased it, my point was that religion gets into politics and plays a big part in political affairs now, as it did in the past. Also, while the Holocaust is almost universally agreed upon now that is was completely bad, my point was that a similar thing is happening now and people aren’t all against it like we are for the Holocaust. So this concept of “good and bad” isn’t necessarily clear.
wow, that was kinda complicated… does it make sence?
166- Most of the world does. And Bush’s approval rating is going down every week, I don’t think it’s even 30% anymore. And it’s pretty obvious that this administration wasn’t trying to “help” anyone but themselves. But that’s politics and does not belong on the religions thread. BTW, anybody who doesn’t think this war is a complete disaster and “wrong” is a moron. Not an opinion, a fact.
I don’t think religion is a good thing. It’s the cause of most wars. Also, the bible contradicts itself to much. A supreme deity wouldn’t create something he didn’t intend to use, but explain the philistines, amelkites, egyptians, persians, babylonians, muslims, nazis, etc.
It doesn’t make sense. I prefer philosophy.
*reads article on koko the monkey* *is freaked out when he sees this* “Koko has been involved in several sexual harassment lawsuits.[4] At least three former employees, all female, have claimed that they were pressured into showing their breasts to Koko. They alleged that Dr. Patterson encouraged the behavior, often interpreted Koko’s signs as requests for nipple display, and let them know that their job would be in danger if they “did not indulge Koko’s nipple fetish.” Koko has been known to playfully grab both male and female nipples without warning or provocation. Dr. Patterson claims that Koko uses the word “nipple” to refer to humans.[5]”
154-
Jesus is God.
“The Father himself judges no one, but has assigned all judgement to the Son, so that all men may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who refuses to honor the Son refuses to honor the Father who sent him.” John 5:22-23
and also
“The One who went me is whith me. He has not deserted me since I always do what pleases him.” John 8:29
154-
and:
“Jesus answered: ‘My kingdom does not belong to this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my subjects would be fighting to save me from being handed over to the Jews. As it is, my kingdom is not here.’ ” John 18:36
170-
God created everything and everyone for a reason: to love Him. and religion doesn’t cause wars; evil and hate cause wars. those who start “religious” wars are trying to do what is good in their eyes, but no violence is just or right. just look at Ghandi or MLK jr. they didn’t cause wars, but they still worked for justice. i think everyone can learn from these peaceful rebels.
166 & 169:
while I disapprove of the war, everyone has their own opinion. for instance, 169 is being stubborn and trying to force her opinions down people’s throats. and 166: bush is nothing like hitler. in hindsight, everyone has 20/20 vision, but imagine yourself in Bush’s shoes on sept. 11. what would you have done? how would you have run the war?
169- and people aren’t morons because they disagree with you. You’re like Dogbert in a Dilbert comic I read recently
and I quote.
dogbert: from now on, i will dismiss morons with a ‘bah’ and a wave of my paw
dilbert: just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t make them a moron, dogbert
dogbert: Bah!
hee hee dilbert is hilarious
Yay for Piggy! Thanks for coming in and saving the day for the Christians! Now I see why you need to memorize bible verses!
May God bless you all in this glorious season of Easter.
175- I’m not discussing this on the religions thread. Feel free to repeat what you posted on the hot topics thread and read my calm, dignified, and rational retort. Meanwhile, I will do the mature thing and ignore your spiteful and frankly, ignorant, remarks.
Pesach is finally over, Thank God. My parents (not religious, neither am I, but since it’s only been a year and a half since my bas mitzvah and I feel obligated to try it for a while) were taunting me with bread all week. Believe me, I have christian friends who gave up things for lent, and I don’t think a single one of them had it half as bad as a carboholic suffering from withdrawal. Yom HaShoah is coming up soon, there are a few people organizing a ceremony at my school.
When did Jesus say he was the son of god? In actual words?
Depending on the answer to this question, I may have another one…
Jesus is the Son of God. In the Bible, during the Transfiguration, God says to the three disciples-Peter, James, and John-that Jesus came with, “This is my Son, whom I love;With Him, I am well pleased. Listen to Him!”
152 (hanako)- Quick fact-check here.
Uno: Maybe I just skipped over this, because it’s hard to believe it hasn’t been mentioned yet, but Jesus was a Jew. He and his followers considered themselves to be a sect of Judaism, I think. It wasn’t until the religion won more converts that it became known as a separate entity.
Not sure what that proves, if anything. Just pointing it out.
Jesus did not have “the worst death in history.” Crucifixion was a fairly common Roman form of execution. If you’re calling his death the worst, then you have to lump in a bunch of petty criminals who were given the same punishment.
(170) Not all religions. Few religions have been fought in the name of say, Shintoism. Though I do think Buddhism is more of a way of life than a religion (but isn’t that what religion is?) very few if any wars have been waged in the name of that religion.
(172) It states clearly to honor Jesus as they honor the Father, thus affirming they are separate entities. I understand than in a otherworldly, hard to describe sense that they are in ways one, but for all intents and purposes it appears they are separate.
179- he didn’t literally say it, that was what the Pharisees said he said. He did allude to being joined with God many times.
171-did you really need to post that?
175- even though your question wasn’t for me, I have a good answer to it, but if you wish to continue this “debate” I think we should move to the hot topics thread (oh, i didn’t see #178…so, I agree, but you could have been nicer because i know people that think stuff like that and it’s not because they’re stupid, they just don’t see and hear the same facts and news I (we?) hear. coming from someone living in an incredibly “red” county, lets discuss this calmly on the hot topics thread, making sure not to offend people that don’t want to argue and/or be offended)
181- i think Jesus’s death was considered the worst because that was the only time God ever turned his back on someone, but then god did because Jesus was carrying all of the sins of the world. After he died, Jesus went to hell for 3 days, even though he was completely innocent of anything.
178- not to sound stupid, but where is the hot topics thread? Is there a more recent one than 2007.3? I can’t post on that one so…i’m a little clueless…(I would put an embarassed face here but I don’t know how to do one so…just pretend)
(185) Elizabeth, Hot Topics 2007.2 thread is still open:
https://musefanpage.com/blog/?p=695
184-does the bible really say that jesus went to hell for three days? i don’t think so. criminal-“Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom” Jesus-“i tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.”—-luke 23:42-43
that was only a few moments before he died. i think that whenhe was on the crosshe also said right before he gave up his spirit “It is Finished” that implies that the task was already done. i beleive that he went to heaven then.
oh, when i said that the bible siad the god was a trinity, i did not mean a direct quote. the bible really does say that god is threesome-matthew 17:5″this is my son,whom i love; with him i am well pleased.” matthew 28:19 “therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”–there is where we get the trinity theology.
why are we talking about the iraq war? isn’t that POLOTICS! well, my opinion of the war is that Bush went into iraq w/ all the best intentions…..but the plan fell flat. oh,i don’t think that this is a religious war. i think that Bush went in to counterattack the terrorist organizations. i think that what osama bin laden and saddam huessein were doing was wrong. you cannot rule a nation by fear. the iraqi people were happy w/ america when we got rid of them. but now…..what we are doing in there is not helping them.
go piggy!!!!!!!!!!!
This is awful. I don’t have time to answer and tear the religious arguments to pieces, but as soon as I have time, expect it. In the meantime, I as a pagan worship the nordic pantheon. Atheism as a word indicates the absence of gods.
189-why is it mandatory with you to tear arguments to pieces? just asking. i wonder if it is because you can’t stand to even consider something that you don’t believe possible? i’m pretty sure that even you are a new beleiver in Asatru? you just joined on Jan. 22, 2007, right? don’t you also want to promote peace on this blog? isn’t tearing arguments to pieces not very peace-promoting? well, whatever you want to accomplish you can accomplish by peacably coming up with a peaceful response to every statemant you believe wrong on this blog, right? if you can’t, why even argue because whatever we say you will dogmatically disagree.
thats all
I don’t want to promote peace on the blog, I want to break the spell of evil dogma. I find christianity morally negative and see it as my moral duty to argue against it. And the fact that I am able to tear the religious arguments to pieces shows I’m right.
Oh, and if someone says something as idiotic as “the parting of the red sea is also believable because it is an act of god” deserves to be torn to pieces verbally. Also because sentences like that have modern europeans shaking their heads.
192-do you beleive that the Nordic gods can perform miracles? do you beleive that they are deitys at all? well, if so, it is the same with my god. i firmly beleive that he can and will perform miracles! maybe he’ll even arrange it so you can beleive in him! anything is possible with god-thats even a Bible verse. i believe that if my god can create the universe-which i do believe-than he can control any event in the universe!
oh, i think someone asked why god created free will at all. well,if god didn’t than he would have a bunch of witless denizens following him! he created man in his image, so he also gave them a will, just like he has.
187: and what exactly was Osama and Hussein doing? Allow yourself to be corrected by someone who actually reads the Guardian Weekly and doesn’t feed off Fox News:
1)Osama Bin Laden has NO relations with Iraq or Hussein. Neither does Al-Qaida have any connections to Iraq or Hussein. Bush, on the other hand, has overt connections to Dick Cheney.
2)Saddam Hussein was not responsible for 9/11 and is not a terrorist. Hell, they didn’t even find WMDs over there. Hussein was NOT a threat.
The commonly accepted theories over here the following. Bush invaded Iraq for the following reasons: Avenge Daddys honor, and to get a bunch of oil for his rich oil company campaign donors.
191 – FrigidSymphony, I’ve heard enough about how bad my religion is. Perhaps you could tell me how good your religion is so maybe I’ll want to convert instead of just getting angry? Here are a few small things I have heard from my pastor. They make sense to me, and I think they will make sense to you too.
~~~evangelizing to follow~~~
~~~please don’t think I’m forcing you to become Christian~~~
Someone said a while back, I think it was you, “With all this suffering in the world, god must not be doing a good job planning people’s lives.” Well maybe god doesn’t want to make this utopia, or heaven on earth. Think about it. If god stopped everything that would lead to evil, we’d have a heck of a world. Every time someone would hit a baseball toward a window, the ball would stop in midair. Evil people would never be born, so they’d never have a chance to go to heaven. And maybe we’re the ones who are not doing good enough. If people are getting tortured, maybe we need to work harder toward making this world a better place.
If the serpent had never tempted with the apple, if Eve had said no, if Adam had said no, then everybody would be guaranteed to go to heaven, everybody would praise God’s name, every tounge would confess the Jesus Christ is lord and every knee would bow in his name. That sounds great, doesn’t it? But look closely: if everybody always is a perfect Christian, they aren’t really. They would be born that way, they would have no way of doing otherwise. In other words, they wouldn’t have a choice.
This way, people have a choice as to whether they want to be Christians or not. God knows what choice we are going to make, but he still gives us the choice. And if some people say no, or no is the only choice given to them because yes has not yet been persented to them, then it is the ones who say yes’s duty to help them along the path toward salvation. Of course, if people force the person to choose yes, then they aren’t really choosing yes, as they had no choice. Rather, the people need to present the truth so that the person sees that saying yes is a good idea.
~~~short little Christian lecture over~~~
(GAPAs, please don’t snip this for people being too persuasive. Instead of saying other religons are garbage, I’m simply promoting my religion. I think that’s a better way to do things than to insult people about what they follow.)
187- the apostles creed-“he descended into hell, on the third day he arose again from the dead”
FS- christians have the right to their own views just like you do. What if we found it morally wrong for you to critisize a religion that you don’t even understand (ex things you say about christianity aren’t true) I don’t mind arguing with you using facts and all. I’ll listen (read) what you say and try to undersand, but I ask that you do the same. I don’t understand what you find morally wrong about christianity, the main idea is the golden rule (do onto others as you would have done to you) what’s morally wrong with that? And just to clear things up, christianity is a religion, it can’t be held responsible for the actions of people that claimed to follow this religion (ie the crusades) those things I’ll agree were morally wrong, but they also went against the teachings of the christian bible
The Norse gods don’t perform miracles, I don’t believe they perform miracles, and there is no “holy text” that says they do. We have the Havamal, which is basically a bunch of advice under the form of a poem. And the norse religion has not caused millions of deaths throughout two millenia.
195: but in that case, god allows evil to spread throughout the world, and causes lots of innocent deaths. Either god does not exist, or if he does, he is evil.
195-i think that your post is the only one making any sense. in fact, that is probably the wisest, make-sense thing i have heard all week!
hold on fridgey, this is a political discussion going on, not a religious one. save it for the hot topics thread please. i was stating my opinion in reply to another post, not trying to start a pro-war anti-war argument. lets limit this to religion!
thank you
197 – “but in that case, god allows evil to spread throughout the world, and causes lots of innocent deaths. Either god does not exist, or if he does, he is evil.” Well then, those evil people will get punished dreadfully for their hideous sins in all eternity and those innocent souls will rejoice in heaven forever! God makes sure it works out nicely in the end. (I emphasize “in the end”.)
All the millions of deaths from the two millenia are just radical Christains going crazy! Something’s wrong with them because one of the highest rules in Christianity is don’t murder ! Same with the radical Muslims and 9/11!
198 – Thank you!
196-is the apostles creed in the bible, or was it written afterward?
yes, if anyone was murdering in gods name, they obviously weren’t walkiing in the faith. in the ten commandments
Commandments:
I am your Lord and God
You shall have no other gods before Me
You shall not make for yourself an idol
You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God
Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy
Honor your parents
You shall not murder
You shall not commit adultery
You shall not steal
You shall not bear false witness
You shall not covet
I don’t want to get started on the war again but 194-Hussein was a threat! He massacred his own people in 1981!
197-God does not like sin in the world! The reason hatred is in the world is because the world belongs to Satan! The devil! The enemy of God! When Adam and Eve bit the forbiddden fruit, they became knowledgeable of not just good, but also evil! Therefore, sin entered the world and God could not do anything to stop it!
195-THANK YOU!!!! THAT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE!!!
201-you’re absolutey right.
Did God Create Evil?
———————————————————————-
The university professor challenged his students with this question:
“Did God create everything that exists? ”
A student bravely replied, “Yes, he did!”
“God created everything?”, the professor asked.
“Yes sir”, the student replied.
The professor answered, “If God created everything, then God created evil since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are, then God is evil.”
The professor was quite pleased with himself and boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth.
Another student raised his hand and said, “Can I ask you a question professor?”
“Of course”, replied the professor.
The student stood up and asked, “Professor, does cold exist?”
The professor replied, “Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?”
The students snickered at the young man’s question.
The young man replied, “In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat.
Everybody or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body, or matter, have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (- 460 degrees F) is the total absence of heat. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no heat.
The student continued. “Professor, does darkness exist?”
The professor responded, “Of course it does.”
The student replied, “Once again you are wrong sir. Darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light, we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton’s prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn’t this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present.”
Finally the young man asked the professor. “Sir, does evil exist?”
Now uncertain, the professor responded, “Of course, as I have already said. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man’s inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.”
To this the student replied, “Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God.
God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God’s love present in his heart. It’s like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.”
The professor sat down.
The young man’s name — Albert Einstein
————————————————————————–
sorry for the long post, but i think that this pretty much explains the whole evil issue. i thought it was cool.
The reasoning described in the story goes back at least to the Catholic theologian Thomas Aquinas, but the useful urban-legend site Snopes.com says there’s no reason to connect it with Albert Einstein.
203-THAT IS SO COOL!!!!
(200),
Look it up! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostles'_Creed
i looked. it doesent say
193- ‘it is as easy for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven as it is for a camel to walk through the eye of a needle. with man this is impossible, but with God, all things are possible.’
197- God is not ALLOWING the suffering, people are causing the suffering. God is the BALM of suffering, not the cause of it.
Hey Frigid Symphony- Instead of telling other people why their religion is wrong and how there is no proof in the world that it could be true, tell me and every other Christian on this blog why your religion is true? What historical evidence do you have that proves your religion true? And don’t say that you have your Havamal-thingy because we have the Bible and Egeria’s Diary and other books that have way more proof than that!!!
Also, I’m not sure if this belongs on this thread or on Hot Topics, so I chose this one. I decided to rant on “The Da Vinci Code” because I felt like it. First of all, Dan Brown admitted that he was an atheist and anti-Christian, so that labels out that he wrote this book with praising God in mind. Also, the book that he relies on: the Book of Mary Magdalene was not written by Mary Magdalene, but by some blasphemic idiots. I don’t remember what they are called(I will ask my mom-she knows), but it was written centuries after her death by these people who were committing blasphemy by saying she had babies with Jesus, because the group of people historians believe wrote it didn’t even believe in having ,well, you know. Also, how can people believe that what he wrote in his book is true and that it actually happen when he wrote it. It is a fictional novel! It may have some ancient history in it, but 98% of it is fiction! So it can’t be true if he made it up!
OK that is all.
shoot! That wasn’t all supposed to be bold! What am i doing wrong?
203 – Oh my gosh! That makes so much sense! I’d never thought about that before! Thank you!
You need to leave space inbetween, like [b] this [/b] , not [b] this [/b]. See the period next to the [/b]? If anything touches any of them they probably won’t work.
(Obviously you need to substitute angle brackets for the []’s.)
Thank you all, Christian MuseBloggers, for posting such good posts. I feel very confident now about my religion.
I am 1 quarter Jewish, 1 quarter Christian, 1 quarter Universalist, and 1 quarter Atheist. But I go to a Unitarian Universalist church.
First of all, I cannot prove that Asatru is real. So what? I’m not looking for converts, and my religion is NOT one that has a stranglehold over a great part of the world and brainwashes children. Christianity does, and it abuses that power, causing countless evils throughout the world. I can follow this religion with a clean conscience, knowing that hypocritical wars weren’t started in Odin’s name. Yes, the Vikings were violent, but the raiding was forced on to them by Scandinavian life. Overcrowded, cold environment. Had to leave. And anyway, Odin was the god of wisdom and logic first, his link to war came second. And the Havamal is not proof of his existence, it’s a poem that they say was dictated by him. The original author is unknown, and I expect that it was originally transmitted orally. You can find a transcription of the Havamal on the asatru alliance website.
Some more points:
If God is all powerful, than why can’t he kick Satan’s arse? And anyway, Satan is not who you think he is. The word comes from yiddish and means “adversary”, so Satan is the adversary of the Church, everything that Christianity isn’t. So Satanism encourages self-indulgence, and it is basically a form of ethical egoism based on Nietschiean and Machiavellian philosphy. Satanism teaches to love those few around you who deserve it, and not to waste your love on everyone. Same for hatred. Satanism teaches that every man is god himself, as god comes from man, therefore satanists will do everything that is best for them. If, however, a satanist truly cares about someone else, then it will be in his or her interest to make that person happy. So ethical egoism contains altruistic and morally correct behaviour. Official satanism as preached by Anton LaVey’s Church of Satan and Aleister Crowley’s Abbey of Thelema has nothing to do with human sacrifices or violence, as the belief is that there is no afterlife, this is all we have, life is precious, enjoy it. Satanism does not worship Satan as a deity, but as a figure representing everything that is human. More info on Satanism on churchofsatan.com
If Satan exists, (which I don’t believe, as neither does God) then he is not the cause of evil. Evil is a human thing. Humans are evil. Morality does not come from supernatural beings. And it just so happens that the Church is a very big perpetrator in evil itself. Should I make a list? Crusades, witch burnings, heresy accusings (false, most of em), pagan massacres, false accusations unto the jewish people, etc… It just goes on and on.
And these people were not extremists, that was the accepted viewpoint. Almost every single person during the Crusades was firmly convinced that it was God’s Will, that they must kill the infidels. For some strange reason, the muslims believed that too…
The evil discussion attributed to Einstein is bollocks. You cannot measure Evil as you can heat, light or darkness. Evil has to do with the morality and human behaviour. Evil is only a tag he have invented to label that which to us seems morally incorrect. I refuse to believe tha Einstein (who was fervently against religion, by the way: he reasoned and reasoned about it, and it just didn’t make sense. This is historically accurate, Einstein was against Christianity. His iew of God was something a lot different) said this. It’s a feeble attempt to make religion sound ‘scientifical’, just like the chock-full-of-bullshit ‘intelligent design’ theory. Bloody americans…
About Dan Brown: I don’t think anyone actually believed it was true, about Jesus and Magdalene, but the historically accurate parts are those criticizing Christianity.
As for The Final Judgement being the answer to evil people, the problem is this: In all probability there is no heaven and hell, and saying that the guy who killed your friend is going to hell isn’t going to bring your friend back to life, or ease the suffering.
In conclusion, I sincerely detest the self-righteous, hypocritical, fear-mongering, power-seeking scum of mankind that calls itself the Church. But don’t worry, my hatred is also directed towards Islam.
And before anyone bashes Satanism without knowing bollocks about it, here are some rules:
The 9 Satanic Statements:
1)Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!
2)Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!
3)Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!
4)Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!
5)Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!
6)Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!
7)Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,†has become the most vicious animal of all!
8)Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!
9)Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!
The Eleven Satanic Rules Of The Earth
1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.
4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.
5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.
7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
9. Do not harm little children.
10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.
The Nine Satanic Sins
1. Stupidity—The top of the list for Satanic Sins. The Cardinal Sin of Satanism. It’s too bad that stupidity isn’t painful. Ignorance is one thing, but our society thrives increasingly on stupidity. It depends on people going along with whatever they are told. The media promotes a cultivated stupidity as a posture that is not only acceptable but laudable. Satanists must learn to see through the tricks and cannot afford to be stupid.
2. Pretentiousness—Empty posturing can be most irritating and isn’t applying the cardinal rules of Lesser Magic. On equal footing with stupidity for what keeps the money in circulation these days. Everyone’s made to feel like a big shot, whether they can come up with the goods or not.
3. Solipsism—Can be very dangerous for Satanists. Projecting your reactions, responses and sensibilities onto someone who is probably far less attuned than you are. It is the mistake of expecting people to give you the same consideration, courtesy and respect that you naturally give them. They won’t. Instead, Satanists must strive to apply the dictum of “Do unto others as they do unto you.†It’s work for most of us and requires constant vigilance lest you slip into a comfortable illusion of everyone being like you. As has been said, certain utopias would be ideal in a nation of philosophers, but unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately, from a Machiavellian standpoint) we are far from that point.
4. Self-deceit—It’s in the “Nine Satanic Statements†but deserves to be repeated here. Another cardinal sin. We must not pay homage to any of the sacred cows presented to us, including the roles we are expected to play ourselves. The only time self-deceit should be entered into is when it’s fun, and with awareness. But then, it’s not self-deceit!
5. Herd Conformity—That’s obvious from a Satanic stance. It’s all right to conform to a person’s wishes, if it ultimately benefits you. But only fools follow along with the herd, letting an impersonal entity dictate to you. The key is to choose a master wisely instead of being enslaved by the whims of the many.
6. Lack of Perspective—Again, this one can lead to a lot of pain for a Satanist. You must never lose sight of who and what you are, and what a threat you can be, by your very existence. We are making history right now, every day. Always keep the wider historical and social picture in mind. That is an important key to both Lesser and Greater Magic. See the patterns and fit things together as you want the pieces to fall into place. Do not be swayed by herd constraints—know that you are working on another level entirely from the rest of the world.
7. Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies—Be aware that this is one of the keys to brainwashing people into accepting something new and different, when in reality it’s something that was once widely accepted but is now presented in a new package. We are expected to rave about the genius of the creator and forget the original. This makes for a disposable society.
8. Counterproductive Pride—That first word is important. Pride is great up to the point you begin to throw out the baby with the bathwater. The rule of Satanism is: if it works for you, great. When it stops working for you, when you’ve painted yourself into a corner and the only way out is to say, I’m sorry, I made a mistake, I wish we could compromise somehow, then do it.
9. Lack of Aesthetics—This is the physical application of the Balance Factor. Aesthetics is important in Lesser Magic and should be cultivated. It is obvious that no one can collect any money off classical standards of beauty and form most of the time so they are discouraged in a consumer society, but an eye for beauty, for balance, is an essential Satanic tool and must be applied for greatest magical effectiveness. It’s not what’s supposed to be pleasing—it’s what is. Aesthetics is a personal thing, reflective of one’s own nature, but there are universally pleasing and harmonious configurations that should not be denied.
PENTAGONAL REVISIONISM:
A FIVE-POINT PROGRAM
by Anton Szandor LaVey ©1988
In recent years, we’ve wasted far too much time explaining that Satanism has nothing to do with kidnapping, drug abuse, child molestation, animal or child sacrifice, or any number of other acts that idiots, hysterics or opportunists would like to credit us with. Satanism is a life-loving, rational philosophy that millions of people adhere to. Now we’re ready for something that goes quite a few steps beyond just explaining our principles. Every revisionist movement needs a set of goals/guidelines that are clear, concrete, and that will effect significant changes.
The following Five-Point Program reflects attitudes which allow others to decide whether they wish to align themselves with Satanism or not. Each is necessary for Satanic change to take place. When asked what we’re “doing,†here’s the answer:
1. Stratification—The point on which all the others ultimately rest. There can be no more myth of “equality†for all—it only translates to “mediocrity†and supports the weak at the expense of the strong. Water must be allowed to seek its own level without interference from apologists for incompetence. No one should be protected from the effects of his own stupidity.
2. Strict taxation of all churches—If churches were taxed for all their income and property, they’d crumble overnight of their own obsolescence, and the National Debt would be wiped out as quickly. The productive, the creative, the resourceful should be subsidized. So long as the useless and incompetent are getting paid, they should be heavily taxed.
3. No tolerance for religious beliefs secularized and incorporated into law and order issues—to re-establish “Lex Talionis†would require a complete overturning of the present in-justice system based on Judeo-Christian ideals, where the victim/defender has been made the criminal. Amnesty should be considered for anyone in prison because of his alleged “influence†upon the actual perpetrator of the crime. Everyone is influenced in what he or she does. Scapegoating has become a way of life, a means of survival for the unfit. As an extension of the Judeo-Christian cop-out of blaming the Devil for everything, criminals can gain leniency, even praise, by placing the blame on a convenient villain. Following the Satanic creed of “Responsibility to the responsible,†in a Satanic society, everyone must experience the consequences of his own actions—for good or ill.
4. Development and production of artificial human companions—The forbidden industry. An economic “godsend†which will allow everyone “power†over someone else. Polite, sophisticated, technologically feasible slavery. And the most profitable industry since T.V. and the computer.
5. The opportunity for anyone to live within a total environment of his or her choice, with mandatory adherence to the aesthetic and behavioral standards of same—Privately owned, operated and controlled environments as an alternative to homogenized and polyglot ones. The freedom to insularize oneself within a social milieu of personal well-being. An opportunity to feel, see, and hear that which is most aesthetically pleasing, without interference from those who would pollute or detract from that option.
This is the encapsulated version of the current thrust of Satanic advocacy. So when someone asks you, “Well, what do Satanists do?â€, you will be qualified to tell him.
215- I thought solipsism is the belief that you cannot prove anything exists outside of ones own self. And just pointing out one thing, the second “Judeo” should be taken out of point 3. Jews don’t believe in the existance of the devil. Otherwise, interesting; though slightly confusing.
I dont know much about church or anything becuase my family cant find a church that believes in the same religion we do near our town or anything, so if say something wrong or something i didnt mean to. Anyway, not to offend anyone or anything (and again i dont know very much about religion) but the other day my friend was talking about how she automatically doesnt trust people who are a certain religion just becuase they arent that religion. It made me really sad and mad becuase i knew lots of people who had that religion and if she met them she wouldnt trust them just becuase of their beliefs instead of getting to know them. sorry agian if i made a mistake.
217: what religion is this? I can’t comment if I don’t know what it is, and what its values are.
.. I thought the word “Satan” came from Hebrew, not Yiddish?
So what exactly does Asatru believe, anyway?
219: Sorry, you’re right, hebrew, not yiddish. Asatru is the belief in the Old Gods, the Norse Pantheon.
Frigid Symphony-We are not looking for converts either! But you have no right putting our religion down when you have no proof that your religion is better and true. Convince me that you have a better and real religion in which your “god” is real, and I might agree with you and stop defending Christianity, but until you have evidence that your “god” is real, then you have no right to say ours isn’t! Aren’t I right, GAPAs?
221: YOu completely miss the point. I don’t say that Asatru is truer than Christianity (even though I believe that). I am arguing that Christianity is an immoral, unethical, evil and violent religion that has done an incredible amount of damage to mankind throughout history. Most of the popes would be eligible for accusations for crimes against humanity today. And don’t go looking for help from the GAPAs, unless it’s to supply information. I have every right to criticize and put down Christianity, as it is a negative influence on our society. Do you even read my full posts, or do you stop as soon as you have something you can make a flimsy comeback with?
214, 215-not all Christians believe in Satan. I don’t.
Oh wow. Frigidsymphony’s posts are long. *braces self for impact* *goes and reads them*
OH……………….MY……………………….GOSH.
Let me quote:
“And it just so happens that the Church is a very big perpetrator in evil itself. Should I make a list? Crusades, witch burnings, heresy accusings (false, most of em), pagan massacres, false accusations unto the jewish people, etc… It just goes on and on.”
Now how many times have all the Christian MuseBloggers said that Christians are not proud of this and those people got Christianity wrong? That’s using the same dumb argument over and over again even though it has been widely discredited by MuseBloggers.
222 – Geez! You belive Christianity is an immoral, unethical, evil and violent religion? If you’ll look, sometimes Christians are violent (but see the above), but Jesus promoted peace and goodwill, he spread the good news, he healed the sick, cured the blind, and came to help mankind. Even you admitted on a previous thread that he was a peace-lover. You also said that his only fault was a divinity complex, so you must belive that everything else he did was perfect. So his teachings are true, they aren’t lies, and so on?
I find the post titled “Did God create evil?” to make very much sense, as evil only happens when we’re not doing something good. If you don’t belive that is morally correct, then so be it. I am probably just as stubborn as you are when it comes to changing religion. (Though maybe not…you recently changed from being a radical atheist to an astraur.)
I cannot spend all my time reaserching the bible coming up with rebuttals against your anti-christian statements. I have not had confirmation yet, so I don’t know as much about Christianity now, but I will in the future. Someday when I am further educated on the truth, I will maybe come back to answer. But for now, this is just a waste of my time.
One more thing: a few things in satanism sound pretty simaler to some things in christianity.
And by the way, I read your posts from front to back. I don’t skip a word.
Bye! I’m officially leaving this thread.
FS-I do read your posts from the beginning to the end. And I never said that you were trying to say that your religion was truer than Christianity(even though it isn’t). The truth is, the followers of your religion were vikings! And they caused more merciless pain and torture than anyone in the world! We have said multiple times that the Christians who inflicted pain were screwed-up idiots! They got the religion all wrong! Jesus was like MLK or Ghandi. He was a peace-lover, nonviolent. He would not hurt a living thing! You don’t even look at modern Christians. If you came to my church, you would see loving people who cared for each other. Heck! My mother even is the leader of the Knitting Circle! They knit shawls for widows, women who just had babies, and women who are recovering from cancer or some other disease! We love one another. In my Youth Group, we do not plot ways to kill people who aren’t Christian in an effort to take over the world! We study the Bible and worship God!
AHH! It still didn’t work!
Sorry for the triple post, but Frigid Symphony-Here is a reminder from the evolution thread: DON’T CUSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ok, FS, I think I see what your getting at (maybe)
You are saying that in the past many people have killed others (and done other bad things) in the name of christianity, and that is why christianity is bad, because of what the religion has caused people to do.
am I right? if so,
the other MBers are arguing back that while it is true that bad things have been done in the name of Christianity, it doesn’t mean that what the religion teaches is bad, it’s just what people have done. so, the people that did these things ARE the ones that have had a negative impact on the world, but it’s NOT the religion that has had this negative impact. People are reacting to your statements that christianity is an imoral religion and it has caused negative things in this world because it isn’t anymore and the actual religion never has
ok, did that make any sence what so ever? or was I rambling and making sence only to myself?
i am jewish but i dont think christianity is bad its just different. the religion itself is not bad but the people who chose to do bad things “because christianity said so” are bad. christianity never said anything like that, dumb people were just driven to kill non christians
220 – yes, but what exactly does that entail? Is there a specific lifestyle? do you believe in life after death? What is god? etc.
Ok, I’m conservative Jewish and proud of it.
but before I go in to everything I do or don’t believe, ponder this:
NOT ALL THAT IS TRUE IS FACTUAL
I do not believe in afterlife as a reward for what you did during your life. But I do believe that there is something after, though I am not sure what.
215 (last word): or her! (sorry, feminist moment)
216: That’s interesting, I didn’t know the Jews don’t believe in the devil. The Torah is the first 5 books of the Old Testament, right? Does the devil appear anywhere in there?
228: I think you summarized everything very effectively.
FS- ok, I see your point about the history of the Church. I accept that, and don’t follow in the example of past popes. I do try to follow Jesus’s example of peace and forgiveness. But what’s wrong with Christianity today? “Brainwash” is a harsh word for a culture! No, I don’t watch FOX news, so don’t bring that up.
I’m getting confirmed in the Catholic Church today. I’ve already been in my Protestant Church.
Alright. I say that since Christianity has caused so many people to commit evil deeds, Christianity is bad. What’s a good analogy… Can’t think of one, but anyway, Christianity has yet to pay for the suffering it has caused. The religion in itself, as an idea, never physically caused anyone harm. Ideas don’t do that. People acting on ideas do. And today it is still being the same. Want some examples? The previous pope claimed that condoms were a sin and told everyone not to use them. I saw, with my own eyes, groups of priests and nuns going around telling adolescents not to use condoms. The same happens in Africa. The pope’s insistence that condoms were bad resulted in it being very difficult for good condoms to get to Africa, and even then, most of them believed the pope and didn’t use ’em. This caused countless deaths from various STDs. Other example: Bush using his “strong christian faith” to promote his self-serving war. A few years ago a mosque was set fire to here by some christians, members of a papal group. The bookstores are run by members of the same group, and it is impossible to get a decent book on the occult. Bah.
As for Jesus, I have no quarrel with him. He was a great guy, a hippie. But he was totally jewish. Come on, 30 years old, unmarried, living with his mother? Jewish.
And how many times do I have to explain that I don’t attack the single, individuals who may be Christian but have perfectly normal lives? The bad guy here is the idea of Christianity, that is so rooted in the minds of men that it can be used to induce terrible acts; and the organization with it’s own financial and political interests.
Christianity has potential, but it just doesn’t work. It is old, decayed, tattered and corrupted. Throw it out, get something new.
As for the followers of my religion… True, the vikings believed in the norse pantheon, (Asatru is a term reserved for the modern revival of the old pagan religion. So vikings were not strictly asatru- doesn’t matter though), but the Vikings raided for economical reasons. They needed to. Scandinavia was overcrowded and it was bloody hard to try growing anything on solid ice. Odin (or Wodan, Odhinn, Oden, or however else in hell you want to spell his name) was primarily a god of wisdom and logic (the norse pantheon is the only one were the chief god is the god of wisdom), and the vikings did not kill in his name, or were motivated by the gods to kill. True, according to norse mythology Odin would take the souls of fallen heroes (called Einherjar) to his hall in Asgard (world of the gods- the world of men is Midgard, literally “middle earth”) to fight by his side during Ragnarok.
Asatruar believe in the norse pantheon and our lifestyles are not really dictated by our beliefs, except for a few things. Honor is important, friendship, loyalty, courage, wit. Follow the advice in the Havamal, if you are truly wise. Know the gods, know the runes, be kind to friends and skillful with enemies.
Btw, what color was Jesus?
231: that depends on your point of view.
223: How can you believe in God, but not Satan?
235-i think that the values your religion teaches are really good, i just don’t think you are following them. if you truly were trying to be wise as Odin was wise, you would not be cussing, arguing and trying to destroy other religons who hold the same values as yours.
okay, the religion “Christianity” literally means “follower of Christ”. if someone is doing something completely against christs teachings, they are not following our religion wholeheartedly. fridgey, if you complain about how our religion condemns condoms and bush’s “self-serving war” you ma be right that the way in which our relgion is being practiced is not wholey moral. i would disagree with you because i believe it is immoral to have sex outside of a monogamous (did i spell that right?) marriage. i would alose disagree w/ your opinion on the iraqi war. bushes intentions were, i think, good. the way the war has been handled is not good. if it were my decision, i would have ended the war by now, but that is virtually impossibe.
228-very good summary!!!!
i believe that there is a spiritual being who is completely against god whose title is Satan, or Lucifer. it is in the bible that one of gods angels tried to revolt and overthrow god but he was defeated and is now the king of this world. he is trying to come to power again by controlling gods creation: mankind. if you want to read some good analogy of this war, read Frank Peretti’s THIS PRESESNT DARKNESS. it is quite good.
fridgey, if i were in your situation(a non-beleiver who has been educated in the history of the church) i would be arguing the same way as you are. the Christian church has performed some atrocious deeds in the past. but, currently, the church (or at least the church that i believe in) is trying to do all in its power to help our sinful, suffering fallen world.
228: isn’t a good summary. The Church and Christianity are still being evil today.
Satan is not evil, the bible’s description of him is incorrect. The Church Of Satan believes that Satan is a symbol representing all that is human. All our desires, our lusts, are Satan, and indulging in these (unlike the abstinence preached by Christianity) bring emotional and physical gratification.
Lucifer as a divine being was thrown out of heaven for trying to be the leader, as he believed that God was immoral and that he could do a better job of running things. Lucifer means “bringer of light”, and the satanistic variation of ‘Luciferianism’ worships Satan under this aspect. As a more moral god than God.
Oh, and about me not following my religions values: I am fighting against something I deem immoral. Is this praiseworthy? Believe me, my fight against Christianity is not motivated by my belief in Asatru. It is my rational, historical fact based belief that Christianity is something negative that must be fought. As for the other values, I do my best to be honorable, courageous, witty, intellectual and loyal to my friends. Someone truly wise will see that Christianity is unneeded and malignant.
what is asartu?
grr…my desicions keep being too hasty. I’m coming back.
(FS)
“The pope’s insistence that condoms were bad resulted in it being very difficult for good condoms to get to Africa, and even then, most of them believed the pope and didn’t use ’em. This caused countless deaths from various STDs.” Well if those Africans hadn’t had pre-marriage sex and stuff like the pope also says , then they wouldn’t have had those problems.
“The vikings raided for economical reasons.” Well that’s true, but they could have been nicer than coming through cities, burning people’s houses, looting churches, and threatening to kill people. If the vikings had sat down and talked with the towns that were supposedly Christian, those Christians might have given them some food because the bible says help the needy and they might have even let them live there becuase the Vikings would give them some protection that they needed.
“Other example: Bush using his “strong christian faith” to promote his self-serving war.” Bush had good intentions from the start. He was unsure if Iraq had WMDs or not. He needed to find out. And in the meantime, Iraq had a not-so-nice dictator running around, Saddam. Bush went in, found that Iraq had no WMDs, and got rid of Saddam, which might have been a mistake. Saddam, a Sunni, had ruled the Shiite majority with an iron hand, and now that he was gone, the Shiites started to fight because they could. Then the Sunnis and the Shiites started fighting, and Bush held his troops there trying to keep the peace. Now people realize that isn’t working, but Bush has personal pride about admitting he’s wrong so the congress is acting for him. Bush was okay at the beginning, but he got himself into some trouble later.
“btw, what color was Jesus?” He was brownish.
“Satan is not evil, the bible’s description of him is incorrect. The Church Of Satan believes that Satan is a symbol representing all that is human.” And humans are full of
evilSOMETHING OTHER THAN GOOD qualities. Because Satan tricked Eve into sinning, he toppled the first domino of thousands.237- do you understand that the church is not the same as christianity? christianity is not being evil, though the church may be doing wrong things (ie your condom example) and anyway, lots of christians aren’t catholic and don’t follow the pope, so if you say that the pope did something wrong, that has nothing to do with the religion.
238- if christianity is negative, what do you think of all the christian missions on foreign countries? Lots of people are driven to do mission work, or at least donate time and money to missions, because of their christian faith. I know that people have done bad things in the past because of this religion, but I think you are overlooking all the good things they have done. No offense, but are there any major missions that help people in need founded by followers of your religion?
ATTENTION QUAKERS!!!!!!!!
And, what I came here to post, but really doesn’t have a lot to do with the current conversation, but might be a nice turn in this religion conversation because it is a lot less controversail:
I’m going to Washington DC this Tuesday with my mom. We waited WAY too long to get a place to stay the night, but finally my mom found somewhere while she was talking to someone about it yesterday. It’s called the William Penn House, It’s a quaker hostel near the city and while we’re there there’s going to be a quaker service and a small gathering of young (teenage) quakers meeting there. I know that there are some quakers on the blog, I hope some of you are still posting on this thread, because I want to know a little about the quaker religion and what a meeting might be like and anything else… before Tuesday. I might “Wikipedia” it (wikipedia should be a verb just like google is) but I’d like a few ideas from other people my age as to what it might be like. Thanks!
(242) Elizabeth, I stayed at William Penn House for about a week this past October. It’s only a few blocks from the Capitol, within 10 minutes’ walk of two Metro stops (Union Station and Eastern Market), and a sort of longish hike from the Mall. There’s a nice little garden out front, too.
231-Thank you for saying that! There are some things that just can’t be explained, even though they do happen. Can you post that on the evolution thread? (Unless, of course, you believe in evolution)
FS-That is it! I am sick of you putting down my religion! You say the Vikings raided for economical reasons, but they also killed many innocent people, sometimes not leaving a town till everyone was dead. What does that have to do with their economy? Some of them were traders, but many were plunderers. Did you know in Ireland, Scotland, Wales, and England, they were known for plundering and stealing precious jewels from Christian monasteries?
Also, just so you know, Norse Paganism, which you say your religion, Asatru, is a revival of, has a very interesting way of worship. You might want to Wikipedia it, but if you are too lazy to, I will tell you here:
1. Human sacrifice: Sweden was ruled by the followers of your religion and the Swedish King Aun murdered nine of his ten sons to try and prolong his life. He would have sacrificed his tenth son, if his subjects had convinved him not to. According to Adam of Bremen’s accounts, Swedish kings sacrificed male slaves every nine years during the Yule sacrifices. The Swedes were able not just to elect their kings, but also to dispose of them. Two of their kings were killed after years of famine. Odin, the wise Norse god, was associated with death of strangling, and archaelogists have evidence of this after finding people’s bodies perfectly preserved in the Jutland peatbogs.
Does this make your religion any better than Christianity? I think not. Your religion is just as evil as you say ours is. And before you go off and post about how those people were just deluded by their religion, believing that they were doing what they thought was right, even though it wasn’t, let me just say that that is the exact same argument that we have been making.
Also, Satan was not described incorrectly in the Bible. Satan believed he was better than God, so God punished him and sent him to Hell. Satan convinced Eve and Adam to eat the forbidden fruit and therefore unleashed the first sins upon the world. Therefore, Satan is the cause of the sin in the world. And as 241 said, if Satan represents all that is human, then Satan must be pretty evil because think about all the sins that humans have done. Crucifixions(not just the one of Jesus), murders, bombings, stealing, and cussing, just to name a few. And you are way outnumbered, by the way, of Christians and Jews to you.
244 – You go, dude!
Here is something interesting I have heard.
~~~
There was a man who was inside a warm house, while outside it was freezing cold. Some sparrows were banging against the window, as if they did not get to warmer air, they would die. The man looked at the poor sparrows, and went out to the barn, set out some straw and a heater, and tried to lead them in. But the birds would have none of that. They were too afraid of the hideous monster. Then the man tried sneaking up behind them, to try and scare them in, but that didn’t work either. He went sorrowfully back inside and continued to watch the sparrows banging on his windows. “If only I was a sparrow,” he thought, “I could lead them in.”
The same is true with God. We were confused about how to follow God as he was so big, and just so mysterious. It was very hard to communicate with him without scaring yourself, and as a result not much talk with God happened. So God sent his son Jesus to become a human, one of us! Jesus gave us his teachings so he could lead us in through the right door to heaven, so we won’t be stuck in this world of sin.
~~~
Like it?
233 – You want the devil to be a girl?
Today is Yom HaShoah. At my schoool, we’re going to have a holocaust survivor speak during lunch tomorrow, and a ceremony on Thursday. Anybody else’s schools or place of worship doing anything?
215- Interesting…
247- Technicly, the devil could be either male, female, or neither. Or both, I suppose.
Has anyone here read the golden compas and related books? What did you think?
I’m asking that here because there is a religious theme to it, and I want to hear opinions. It’s an interesting viewpoint on the way things are/were.
247: No; the sentence was as follows: “So when someone asks you, ‘Well, what do Satanists do?’, you will be qualified to tell him.” Gramatically speaking, “or her” should be tacked on to the end because “someone” is not gender-specific, so when using a pronoun to refer to it, you’re supposed to say “him or her”.
And since I’m playing the role of Grammar Perfectionist, I made sure the above sentences were correct.
191-i have to disagree with you on that. it proves that you’re a better debater than them.
203-umm. good for him. personally i dont think that good is synonymous with god, so the whole thing really make no sense. his teacher was stupid.
As for The Final Judgement being the answer to evil people, the problem is this: In all probability there is no heaven and hell, and saying that the guy who killed your friend is going to hell isn’t going to bring your friend back to life, or ease the suffering.
for some messsed up people, that not true. and i dont believe in evil. satanism is a bit…. cruel for me.
237-how can the bible’s description of satan be incorrect, when the bible created satan?
241-so a good way of finding out if a country has nuclear weapons is to attack them? instead of waiting for reasonable intelligence? by that i mean the cia sort, not like a new president.
also, if WMDs were the real issue, instead of a crusade for democracy, we wouldnt be in the middle east. we would be in the democratic peoples republic of korea. bush’s intentions are good, but so were hitler’s. the jews were a plague, so he did the world a favor and killed a bunch of them.
249-yeah!! philup pullman. i like the god part. it uses the bible as literature, which is really the only way it should be used.
i kinda agree about asatr. you defend satanism which teaches that all religion was created by humans and is a bad thing, and yet you eblieve in gods that are obviously that way? then again, i saw a really cool quote in someone’s signature. “my god carries a hammer, your god was nailed to a cross” or something of the like. i like that.
250-in many cases, i dont think that him is gender specific. for example, in the un charter, they use him, or he as non gender specific pronouns.
246-so big, mysterious, and non exsistant. the same exact argument could be applied to the FSM, and no less convincingly.
Does this make your religion any better than Christianity? I think not. Your religion is just as evil as you say ours is. yep. pretty much. although not quite as bad.
now, enough with the critisism!!! my religious beliefs. i am a agnostic atheist!! trust me this is possible, wikipedia says so.
meaning. there is no higher power deity or anything. but of course, i cant prove it. thats the agnostic part. however, all religions are equally likely. including the FSM, or the invisible pink unicorn, or any one chooses to make up.
251: “bush’s intentions are good, but so were hitler’s. the jews were a plague, so he did the world a favor and killed a bunch of them.”
You are seriously going to regret saying that.
DDoD was being ironic — poking around inside Hitler’s head for a moment and speaking from his point of view. Obviously he doesn’t hold that viewpoint himself.
251-The Bible did not create Satan. Satan is not merely something that someone decide to write about. Neither is God, or Jesus being the Son of God. They were written down by prophets of God, writing what God told them to say. Satan is as real as the air we breathe.
252-I agree with DDoD. I am just speaking from Hitler’s point of view. I am not saying I believe that Hitler was right in what he did. Hitler believed his intentions were good. And so did many people, thus the Nazis. Jews were considered a plague to the world. Hitler believed that he would do the world a favor by killing them all. Unfortunately, he took his idea to the extreme and went too far with it, just like the KKK and President Bush.
251 – Your first comment on 191 is very true. Very true indeed…thank you for saying that.
(252) It would be pretty outrageous if someone said that and really meant it.
254- Correction. Hitler believed his actions would further his political career.
Satan is not evil, Satan is man. Man is both good and evil. The vikings did not kill in the name of the gods. Bush had no good ideas to begin with, he stole the goddamm presidency! As for the swedish king, you give me one example, I can give you many of foul deeds committed in the name of the gods. And the king wasn’t even doing it in the name of the gods.
True, Christianity and the Church are not the same, but the Church embodies Christianity, and the Church invented Christianity.
I follow Asatru as a spiritual aspect of my life, and do not necessarily believe all the mythology. I defend satanism as a misunderstood, morally correct religion. Which many people here don’t seem to understand. I don’t believe in Satan, or in God. What Satan is, according to Anton LaVey, founder of the Church, is a symbol representing human joy, pain, confusion, ambition, basically anything human. But if you believe in Satan, then Satan in the christian sense is misunderstood anyway.
Kings were killed to appease gods everywhere, except maybe in christian countries, because most often the political leader was also the religious leader, or connected to him. What you’re trying to do is nullify my arguments criticising Christianity (which are in no way forwarded by my own personal beliefs) by attacking my spirituality. Asatru is linked with shamanism and runelore, both spiritually fulfilling activities. I worship the gods, yes, because I find it spiritually fulfilling, but I don’t delude myself and imagine I hear them in my head, telling me to do this or that.
So, it is my opinion that divine beings such as gods do not exist as Christianity teaches. If anything, a god can exist inside a person, as a person’s own spiritual invention. Anton LaVey said, in the Book of Lucifer: “There is no God more powerful than man himself”. I do not have a dogmatic blind faith that leads me to ignore the obvious and delude myself like you sorry people. Towards people like you I feel one of the following: Contempt, pity or hate.
God is man-made. God should be a moral compass, isntead
he is used by man for his own material needs. God is an illusion, a lie. All gods are. The only thing divine is inside us.
I agree.
259- Deep, man. I might quote you there.
258-i agree that satanism is misunderstood^999, however by my moral standard it is not morally correct.
4)Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!
4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.
11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.
this obvious disregard for human life and kindness is not moral. as far as i can tell, a satanist would most certainly support capital punishment, unless they were like anarchists.
258-i dunno stealing the presidency seems a relatively good idea. you dont believe in satan or god. and yet you blieve in freya? what is the difference?
Something i MUST say: STOP FIGHTING AND BE NICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Beware the wrath of my exclamation points!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
263 – That’s pretty much impossible. FS belives that Christianity is morraly evil and I belive the exact opposite so as long as we both stay on here it will be extremely hard to keep calm. Sorry.
251-“my god carries a hammer and your god was nailed to a cross”….what?????? well, if you beleive that your god is true and real then i also believe my god is true and real and he rose from the dead.
265- Err… I beleive it was a reference to how a hammer is whatis used to pound nails…
i found it amusing. i have no god.
I don’t believe my gods are real in the material sense, but they are real inside of me. There is no big organization with political power and economy… Again, to quote LaVey: “If every church were taxed correctly depending on its income, the national debt would be wiped out immediately”.
And to all those who say that science is a lie and that the dogma preached by those who have a stranglehold on america and europe (ie donaldo, E2MB), I say this: Grow up, and get an education. I keep forgetting I’m talking to little kids who have never been outside their own country.
GOD DIDN’T CREATE SATAN! NEITHER DID THE BIBLE! God created lucifer, which means “morning light” lucifer was the most beautiful angel of them all. lucifer soon thought himself better than God, so God banished him to hell. lucifer is now known as Satan, as well as many other things. also, satan is not man. he is a fallen angel, and was never a man. also, what is there to misunderstand about people worshipping satan, who is the cause of all death, sin, and destruction in the history of the universe? not much. God didn’t create evil, satan did and then brought it into the world. also, God is much more than just us. God created the universe, created life, created each and every one of us. every person being their own god is just a way for people to justify their obviously sinful actions by saying, “my god didn’t forbid it.” it is a load of lies. also, asatru seems to be satan in disguise. FS, you say you follow “asatru”, but in 258, you quote from a book about satanism. it sounds to me like you, even if just subconsiously, follow satan, which cannot be a good thing.
on a lighter note, i’m excited for my Confirmation. its on the 29th. also, is everyone having a good Easter season? I am. i mean, Confirmation and my birthday on top of the Lord’s Ressurection? AWESOME! anyways, happy easter and I’m praying for you. especially you, FS
258-incorrect. Christianity invented the Church.
246- ooh, yes I’ve heard that.
242- Yes Quakers are a bit hard to understand. We believe in God, and most follow Jesus. General beliefs that all Quakers share are pacifism, unconditional love and acceptance. The Quakers are officially called the Society of Friends, and individuals are called Friends.
A Quaker service is a called a meeting for worship. Usually, Everyone sits in silence. A Friend may rise and give a message (i.e. communicate orally a spiritual enlightening) if they feel led to. The idea is to open the mind to God.
Hope this helped- let me know if you have any more questions! I think I may be the only Quaker still actively posting on this thread-maybe you can catch one of the other Friends somewhere else.
269: Moron. What is to be understood about satan is that he is not evil, evil came from God as long as everything else (careful- this is not what I believe, but from the Christian point of view). Satan is man, and good and evil, and all that gratifies man emotionally and physically. Satan is not evil. Lucifer was the “patron saint” of many scientific cults throughout history, including the Illuminati, as his name means Bringer of Light. The Church gave the adjective ‘demonic’ or ‘satanic’ on anything non-christian, then preached that anything non-christian was evil. You see how even today the millenia long train of lying dogma spewed forth by the Church conditions humanity’s thinking.
In the spiritual sense, God can only be inside of us. Every man makes his own god, who gives him morals, among other things. Morals do not come from religious doctrine, they come from US. How come I, who do not follow Christianity, find it morally incorrect to kill, even though nothing in my religion says that this is so? In fact, Asatru gives no moral guidance at all. Only spiritual.
And when you say “asatru is satan in disguise” that just makes me laugh. I am Asatruar, but I defend Satanism, as it is a morally correct religion subject to the lies of Christianity. Did you read the Satanic philosophy? It isn’t evil, it doesn’t glorify death or destruction. In fact, LaVey said that life is the most precious thing we have, and he is strongly against violence or suicide. Especially to animals or children, as these beings are pure and un-corrupted by humanity or society, it is essential to keep these beings, who are the epitomes of life’s beauty, healthy. Is that evil? I don’t think so. Far more evil is a Christian Saint who is always depicted carrying a whip and using it to ‘castigate’ heretics (i.e. people who challenged the christian dogma). Saint Ambrosius, patron saint of Milan.
270: No. Organized religion is man’s invention. Always.
270- thanks, I figured out about the worship service, it was a little strange, well, different, i guess is the better word. we were sitting in the guest room (where they hold the service, but also a place to hang out) then peope just started coming in, sitting down, and closing their eyes. It was silent for 1/2 hour, then someone started shaking hands and saying good morning and everyone did that, then we introduced ourselves. It was different, but I kinda liked it.
271- please don’t insult people, just because they don’t know as much about one topic as you do, you’d probably get more information across by just explaining it, if someone started a post to me with the word moron, I’d be mad and wouldn’t read the post real closely, so if your motive is to make people mad, this isn’t the best place, but if your motive is to explain your views and maybe get people to think your way a little more, I think insulting people isn’t the right way
271-You are right. The Satanic philosophy is good, and yes I will admit it, even though I am against Satan, I so far do not have anything against the Satanic church because I have not ever been around a Satanist or been to a Satanic church service. And no, I do not believe in Satanic blood rituals or stuff like that because that is (for the most part) a myth. But the thing that you do not understand is that the guy who wrote the Satanic philosophy and said he is against murder and suicide, well, that is the way HE sees Satan. No one ever said that the way HE sees Satan is the right way. It could be the WRONG WAY! That is what you don’t understand.
And, by the way, I am totally praying for you too, Frigid Symphony. I feel sorry for you, as you cannot accept that you are wrong even though there is overwhelming abundance of evidence that proves you wrong.
275 – I include FrigidSymphony in my list of people to pray for every night, and just about every night I pray for him.
And FS, please don’t call Piggy a moron. It’s not nice.
As usual Piggy, that was a GREAT post. I never knew some of that and yes, I am having a wonderful Easter season. My confirmation won’t be for another 3 years, though. *sigh*
270: I *think* Red-tailed HAWK is a Quaker. You can summon him on the random thread.
271 (FS): “evil came from God as long as everything else (careful- this is not what I believe, but from the Christian point of view).” Wrong again. The Christian viewpoint–which I would have thought you would be aware of, considering you seem to know so much about religions–is just as Piggy explained, that when God created everything, it was all good, and THEN Satan brought evil into God’s universe. And since you keep bringing it up, you should know the devil’s name was Lucifer because he was the head angel before his fall. Just a question: where was Satan first described? The Christian Bible, where the words of God were recorded. Then, in the 1960s, Anton LaVey totally redefined Satan. Wikipedia says, “LaVey viewed ‘Satan’ not as a literal deity or entity, but as a historic and literary figure symbolic of Earthly values.” So bascially he created a brand-new religious figure. Why he decided to call this figure “Satan” is beyond me. Personally, I think it was a huge mistake on his part, since it caused a huge misunderstanding: in reality, Satan is a fallen angel, a real being who is the source of all evil; LaVey and his followers praised something entirely different, that is, what they claimed was the essence of humanity.
“I can give you many of foul deeds committed in the name of the gods.” So basically, interpretations of two religions have been used as justification for atrocious deeds, yet you are a follower of one and vehemently oppose the other? At last I understand.
“Christianity and the Church are not the same, but the Church embodies Christianity, and the Church invented Christianity.” Just stop there. When you refer to the Church, you’re talking about Catholicism, right? Here’s how it happened: Jesus spread the word of Christianity. Thus, his followers became Christians and formed the original Christian church. Over a thousand years later, Catholics broke off from this church, claiming the pope was infallible.
What a load of crap. The Roman Catholic Church is the original Christian Church, founded by San Pietro, the “rock” upon whom Jesus would “build his Church”. Pietro means rock.
When I oppose Christianity, it is for many other reasons besides the violence committed in its name. Christianity glorifies the weak, it hinders the developement of man, it is against all that spiritually, emotionally and physically fulfills us. It is old and corroded, changing past doctrines to adapt to the times, in a very hypocritical way. The Church invented the Seven Sins, ensuring that every sin was one of mans basic needs and urges, and therefore, no one escaped sinning and was forced to turn to the Church, often with financial means, to gain redemption.
Even Satan in the sense of Fallen Angel is not evil. God merely didn’t like him and felt threatened. Lucifer believed that he was better than God, he had PRIDE, a completely human sentiment. The angels who didn’t fall with him, and who fell later, fell like this: they were emissaries from God whose job it was to go to earth and teach people how to plow, harvest and make weapons. Some eventually ended up interbreeding with humans, and the offspring of these unions were the giants. God didn’t like this, so he banished them.
In fact, Satan himself was originally and Angel whose task it was to report human misdeeds to God.
So you see, even in the biblical sense, Satan is not evil. Lucifer was actually originally a roman god, adapted by Christianity. Many of the demonic monikers given to devils or to Satan are actually pre-christian gods. Azrael, Samael, Leviathan, Beelzebub, Apollyon, Astaroth, Baalberith, Bast, Behemoth, Bilé, Chemosh, Marduk, etc, the list is long.
Satan has been one of the most victimized beings in history. The Devil has been attacked by the men of God relentlessly and without reservation. Never has there been an opportunity, short of fiction, for the Dark Prince to speak out in the same manner as the spokesmen of the so-called “Lord of The Rightoeus”. The pulpit-pounders of the past have been free to define good and evil as they wish, and gladly smash into oblivion any who disagree with their lies-both verbally, and at times, physically. Their talk of charity, when applied to His Infernal Majesty, becomes an empty sham- and most unfairly too, considering the obvious fact that their Satanic foe their very religions would collapse. How sad, that the allegorical personage most responsible for the success of organized religions is shown the least amount of charity the most abuse- and by those who most unctuosly preach the rules of fair play.
As for Asatru being ‘just as bad’ as Christianity-
First, does this make Christianity any more moral?
Second, Asatru is NOT just as bad as Christianity. Even if it did incite violence, which it didn’t, it certainly didn’t preach against it, causing no hypocrisy among its violent followers, who were violent for consistent non-religious reasons. And anyway, it doesn’t have a stranglehold over half the world, with dogmatic lies, spreading guilt into the heart of man who cannot do other than follow his basic instincts.
If God created everything, and it was all good, why was the symbolic apple there anyway? He planted evil in Eden, along with everything else. And Satan was not first described in the Bible. As a deiety, he has existed for far longer than Christianity. When Christianity came along, it labelled anything non-christian ‘demonic’ or ‘satanic’.
Anyway, Satan is never evil (which, coincidentally, is the word ‘live’ reversed). He never has been, but only labelled thus by those who seek to maintain power. The very word Satan signifies ‘adversary’, the greek divinity Apollyon, synonym of Satan, meant ‘Archnemesis’.
275: Abundant evidence I am wrong? Grow up and get a bloody education, I don’t want to argue with a kid who’s been indoctrinated from birth with lies and falsehood.
278: He called it “Satanism” because of the meaning of the word and of the god. Human indulgence, physical and emotional gratification. And of course, adversary to the Church, percieved by many learned philosophers as one of the greatest tragedies of the world. You can see the effects for yourself, when religious people are so close-minded they are incapable of arguing consistently, and hide behind myths and tales with no logical, scientifical or even reasonable basis to back them up.
Don’t pray for me, no one. Don’t degrade yourself by disguising your hatred like this. I would like to quote the Satanic Bible:
“…and somehow the animosity must be released. What better way than through “prayer”! What a simperingly polite way of saying: “I hate your guts”, is the thinly disguised device known as praying for your enemy! Praying for one’s own enemy is nothing more than bargain-basement anger, and of a decidedly shoddy and inferior quality!”
Don’t pray for me. I do not feel sorry for you, I feel contempt! I feel disgust! I see in you the perfect example of a human with his own potentials and capacities driven blind to sense and reality by imposed falsehoods! You are not a man, you are a puppet! A dumb beast, herded about by pastors! Go, be part of your flock. You’re doomed to a lifetime of sacrifice and abstinence to no avail, to no end. There is no reward for denying your humanity, no paradise for the hypocrites. The presence of your religion is a blemish on humanity, a hindrance to progress, to advance. Do not pray for me.
And don’t you dare edit my post. I can say what I want to, and people can deal with it intelligently or not. But I have my voice, and my opinion.
you’re a satanist? interesting. never met one before. a real one i mean. there are plenty of stupid goth kids around claiming to be satanists, but i’ve never met one that’s actually had somewhat logical beliefs to back it all up
281: I’m not really a satanist, meaning I don’t claim to be… Probably I’m a de facto satanist, meaning I follow the principles, but I claim to be Asatruar because the principles held dear are more important to me. Honor, for example.
Sorry for 2x post…
However, I defend satanism avidly, as it is a misunderstood philosophically correct religion labelled as evil by those who don’t know.
(280) This is a moderated blog, and posts are subject to editing. That said, however, lengthy posts may sometimes sit around waiting simply because there’s not time to read them.
And I don’t think anyone on MB doubts you have a voice and an opinion.
284: Be that as it may, I don’t want anything I say cut out for fear of ‘offending’ someone. Any problems I might have, even with individual bloggers, can be said out in the open, and read, and dealt with. Cutting out that which may offend serves no purpose, as it doesn’t alter my opinion, nor give a chance for the offended party to rebate.
So everyone reads everything, eh? I’m surprised the GAPAs don’t intervene more to give their own opinions. Frankly, I’m quite interested in what adults have to say on this topic.
279/FS-I will continue to pray for you every day, because that is the right thing to do. I will ask the Blessed Virgin Mary to lead you back into the Lord’s light every time I pray the Rosary, which is usually every day. I’m praying for everyone else, too.
May God bless and keep you during this blessed Easter season.
E2MB-just wanna say you rock
286: I do not want to be led back into the light of Christ, as it is a foul, false, light, decayed and dark with blasphemies against humanity. Raped by the light of Christ, I will not be. Slaughter of the soul, it shall not be. Only truth from inside, shall I see.
And how can she be a virgin if she was pregnant? Immaculate conception my foot, leg and elbow.
FrigidSymphony- I agree with you on the fact that there are problems with religion, but you don’t need to be so harsh. Just like you are allowed your own beliefs, other people are too. I too have your contempt, but if I reveal it at all I don’t try to be so mean to people who believe in God. Same as you, I want no-one praying for me.
289: Where the early Christians any less harsh with the pagans? With the Jews? With the heretics? My behaviour is angelic compared to that.
Oh, I won’t even bother. At least I agree with you, mostly.
FS-all this time on the MuseBlog you have been ranting about how the corrupt men of the church have done inumerable horrible things to humanity. you have been raving about the atrocities committed by the church and its members-the indoctinated victim humans. and then you go and say that Christianity is complete bollocks and bs. you say it is completely false and fabricated by men…… And then you say that Satan is man. lets see…you’ve just about said that all organized religions are terible and have done horrific things. most of the world’s population is religiously organized. all these religions are “made” by men. then you go and say that satan represents man. “Satan is not evil, Satan is man. Man is both good and evil.” you just stated that all organized religion is evil. all organized religion is made up of men. then you say that satan is man and that satanism is inherently good because it appeases man. what the heck!!!!!!!!!!!!! i don’t understand your logic in the least. i would barely even declare it as “logic”. you’ve just completely recanted w/o even realising it.
go piggy! go E2MB! go Elizabeth! go DTSCN(i think thats what your name is abbreviated)! go Dot Keet! you guys rock my sox!
Poor FS. All alone in a world where most everybody follows something he thinks is morally wrong….
“I do not feel sorry for you, I feel contempt! I feel disgust! I see in you the perfect example of a human with his own potentials and capacities driven blind to sense and reality by imposed falsehoods! You are not a man, you are a puppet! A dumb beast, herded about by pastors! Go, be part of your flock. You’re doomed to a lifetime of sacrifice and abstinence to no avail, to no end. There is no reward for denying your humanity, no paradise for the hypocrites. The presence of your religion is a blemish on humanity, a hindrance to progress, to advance. Do not pray for me.”
I’m sorry, FS. You must have a really hard time in your everyday life. I can picture how you feel. If everybody on MuseBlog was FS’s and I was the only one of my kind left… *shudder* *quintuple-shudder*
Unfortunantly, the only way to solve this dillema is to have everybody because Astruars, which isn’t going to happen, or have FS become a Christian, which isn’t going to happen. We should all pray for him. He needs nourishment from this world which, in his mind, is so sickeningly wrong…
So far these religions threads have made people cry, get angry, almost leave MuseBlog, annoy people, shock people, and so on. I think we should all be nice to each other, and not argue to no end. And as that is probably is impossible, we should probably stop this thread. I know we are almost to 300 posts, and I strongly reccomend to keep Religions, v. 2007.3 out of MuseBlog for a while, perhaps forever.
I have learned some interesting things on this thread, but at a cost: I got very angry sometimes. In the past, Christian MBers have blown up, and now it has happened to FS. I’m sort of depressed about this thread now, so I probably won’t be posting as much as I used to.
Peace, faith, hope, and love,
E2MB
I agree. We just need to give this thread a rest. Normally MBers mange to stay fairly civil when discussing things, but clearly religions is a topic where we can’t.
oooooohhhhhh boy. if we can’t talk civily about our religions then we obviously don’t follow our religions very well. E2MB-i have done none of your reactions listed. i have laughed at FS “arguments” though. he’s funny….and illogical. at least from my point of view, which he would argue is warped cause i’ve been “indoctrinated and brainwashed”. oh well. i do agree that we should probably postpone the next religions thread cause it does cause intermuseblog strife. FS once posted a religious comment on the books thread!!!!!!! oh dear. my life is centered around MB. i need to break out.
295-intermuseblog? inter means between, and it’s hard to have anything between museblogs, since there’s only oe of them. Did you mean intramuseblog? (intra being within)
Getting back on topic, I neither laugh at nor feel sorry for FS. I just think he’s obnoxious.
296 – That’s WHY he needs prayers and help.
“I don’t believe my gods are real in the material sense, but they are real inside of me. ” i do not understand. please explain.
269-… i dont know exactly what teh bible says, but like.. i dont care.the bible created satan.
271-i think there are two definitions of satan. one by the bibe, and one by anton lavay. one is used as a symbol for evil, and one is used as a real being. i can quote lavey too! “evil is life spelled backwards” oh. oops. you allready said that. lol.
290-why would you compare yourself to them? justifying wrong with other wrong that is more wrong is just stupid, and immoral. seriously.
293-i am pretty much in agreement with FS. and i love life. and i feel great in everyday life. hating religion is not really a problem.
and a question for FS. how do you feel about Buddhism? that probably about the only religion that has nothing bad in it. completely moral, is accepting of homosexuals, and other religions, and best of all, noone has ever done anything wrong because of it. of course, i dont believe in reincarnation, but otherwise, Buddhism is awesome.
Ahhhg. I feel pity for Museblog itself only. Why do these threads always turn into Hot Topics, basically??
Gah. What I really need to do is read up on a binch of different religions that arn’t the everyday ones like Christianity, and figure out what the heck I think. I get so confused trying to figure out what goes on in my head.
HOWEVER- I don’t want any of you preaching to me or trying to ‘guide’ me. This is something I need to do on my own. Also, no praying for me either. If I find something I can believe in or try to believe in I am going to do it on my own. If there are any deities out there, they will only cloud my sight because i need to do some serious thinking, not believing. Ahhggggggrr. If anyone does end up trying any of the above, I may have to leave this thread for a while. Meh.
299 – (first comment) – because Religions is basically a hot topic.
299-kay. i totally agree with you. but…. thinking and not believing usually ends up with intelligent conclusions. and then you may become an agnostic/atheist.
i can recommend books.
http://www.amazon.com/Religious-Literacy-American-Know-Doesnt/dp/0060846704
its amazon.
The one problem with buddhism is that it will lead people away from carnal, physical fulfillment.
I am not illogical. Christianity has done its best to instill guilt in the minds of men and to render sinful everything that comes naturally to us. Gluttony, masturbation, fornication, greed, envy, anger. The Bible is in constant self-contradiction.
292: Satan represents man, with all his ambiguities, faults and joys. Spiritual religions distance themselves from man, making everything human seem morally wrong. The instinct to reproduce is a sin. The instinct to eat more than necessary to survive is a sin. The spiritual religions are made by men who distance themselves from their humanity, and make sacrifices to themselves in the images of their gods.
I haven’t said that all religious organizations have done horrific acts, take Buddhism as an example. Mostly my arguments have been directed towards Christianity and then, Islam.
Satanism is a religion that allows its followers to live in full satisfaction of their basic human needs. Many people are satanists already, without knowing it.
Satanism is good, as it appeases man. Christianity is not good, as it leads to the ultimate sacrifice of man for no further purpose, other than to lend power to one of the greatest lies of all.
I’m closing down this thread. Everybody knows what FrigidSymphony thinks; FS doesn’t care what anybody else thinks; and nobody seems to be able to talk about anything else. It looks to me as if the learning curve here has gone flat.
I’m not sure what lessons are to be drawn from this thread’s tempestuous history. Offhand, I’d say that the “unrestricted clash of ideas” model that FrigidSymphony favors doesn’t work very well for MuseBlog. Not every MBer wants to be a Viking warrior, and having one Viking warrior in their midst swinging his broadsword around pretty much spoils the fun for everybody else. It’s useful to know that the model exists, though, because it’s what awaits you in college, if you go to a good one. It can be stimulating and informative under the right conditions.
FS wondered (somewhere) what we GAPAs think. In general, we stay out of discussions, except to maintain order and supply information. Unlike most bloggers, we didn’t launch MuseBlog as a vehicle for our own opinions, and we know how quickly kids tend to shut up when adults start talking (though somehow we suspect that would be less likely to happen here). Since FS asked, though, I will make a few personal observations:
1. I think it’s selfish of anyone to turn a thread into his own private boxing ring.
2. Nothing I’ve heard here is new to me. Anton S. LaVey died ten years ago. Aleister Crowley died ten years before I was born. Friedrich Nietzsche is taught in college intro philosophy classes. I read The Satanic Bible when I was a teenager, and it seemed exciting and daring back then, but a little thought was enough to convince me that I wouldn’t really want to live in a world in which “feel free to destroy people who annoy you” was one of the ground rules. It would be like being one of the vampires or demons on Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
3. LaVey didn’t believe Satan really existed, and I don’t think FS does, either. I think they both use the idea or image of Satan as a symbol to make a point and an impression. So if some of his posts about the history and nature of the Devil are a little confusing, it’s because he’s speaking symbolically, not historically. He doesn’t think that Satan is a being whom the Church has misunderstood; he thinks Satan is an aspect of human psychology that the Church has repressed.
4. I don’t think FS really believes in the Norse gods, either. I think that’s just posturing.
5. I think tolerance is necessary for life in civilized society. It’s not always easy, though, and understanding someone else’s ideas doesn’t always make them more attractive. Understanding is still important, and tolerance becomes more manageable when you realize that it doesn’t necessarily mean supporting beliefs that strike you as crazy or offensive–just putting up with them. Where crazy/offensive crosses the line into dangerous/intolerable is a question that every society has to work out for itself, but I’m inclined to be charitable in the interest of keeping the peace.
Again, it’s not always easy. Some Christians will always regard even nice, decent Buddhists as dangerously deluded–“dangerously” because by denying Jesus Christ they are condemning themselves and the children they bring up in their beliefs to an eternity of torment. Buddhists will consider many Christian doctrines (transubstantiation, atonement, blood sacrifice, eternal torment for harmless Buddhists) weird and incomprehensible. Mainstream Christians think Mormon beliefs are nuts; Mormons think non-Mormons are missing out on something exciting and important.
Whatever you believe, millions or even billions of other people–for the most part well-meaning people, I think–are going to disagree with you. Somehow we’ve all got to live and function in a world in which that is so. Is the solution not to talk about it? Or not to think about it? That doesn’t seem like the Muse, or MuseBlog, way.
So farewell, Religions 2007.2. You’ve given us plenty to think about. I’m sure Religions 2007.3 will come along eventually. For now, though, I think we can afford to give this topic a rest.
See you on the other threads.