Continued from v. 2008.1.
The List:
Muslim: FantasyFan?!?!
Jewish: Sphinx, Quintessentia, hypermoocow, FairyDragon
Reform: yellowsharpiemarker, Sobriquet, Cliff Eagle Teh Pwnage
Reconstructionist: Kiki The Great, Anata~ChinTsu
Conservative: Copper Bigfoot, Brave Sir Robin, Zyviva, The Insane Blue Sage, RainbowFish
Orthodox: Phoenix, Jessie, groundhog22
Jewish Atheist: Lizzie, emmatheduck, speller73
Christian: Vendaval, Donaldo, MontgomeryGurl, Ninja For Christ, Eccentric the Afterthought, Lady Cinnamon Moon, IBCF, muselover, jammin j
Lutheran: Queen-o-random, Capricious
Catholic: Kiara, Romana2, Ebeth, davidude, Piggy the Proud Catholic, Tumsymonster
Eastern Orthodox: Sunrunner Bramblewood, Dotty ‘Kay
Quaker: Zallie, Red Tailed HAWK, Liesolotte, Purple Panda, Taiwan Hippo Fan
Protestant: book_addict, VanZepplin, Otzi, Kagcomix
Mormon (LDS): Skwerl Overlord, Veralidaine, Zyka
Methodist: grnqween2011, bibliorose
Presbyterian: Elizabeth, gimanator, Kari
UCC:The Man For Aeiou
Catholic by birth, unsure now: Beavo
Catholic plus Jewish holidays: Gaea
Christian Science Midnight Fiddler
Presbyterian + Hannukah and Passover Nthanda the Laugher
Hindu: ♥ shriya siolashrwa jeffica ♥
Buddhist: 100% cotton
Agnostic: Sweet Melpomene, curious and questioning, SupremeMuser2000, Lady Visala of Reverie, Gwendolyn, Alice (?), POSOC
Wiccan: emogrl, FairyDragon
Mixed Bag of Random Beliefs: Pentatonikk, Unintended Pun, Gwendolyn of the Eastern Seas, Otzi, Axa, elassë~adael, curious and questioning, Musketeer Number, Sweet Melpomene, Drops of Jupiter
Druid Reconstructionist: Millie
Atheist: Skipper Nancy, johnkerry, Purple Panda, Taiwan Hippo Fan, Darth Yoda, Lizzie, penguini, violindino, Yup, Bobbyjkl, First Sorceress, Shadowkat, curious and questioning, Potato Chip, Cat’s Meow, C++darkmage, Drops of Jupiter, La Mort, nerdz_r00l, The Bookworm, Kokonilly
Spiritual Atheist: The Bev, Harmony with short red hair
Radical Atheist: Queenie J, Drops of Jupiter, dark duke of darkness, agagabagabag
Happy Atheist: philosophical.bunny, Hypatia, â–’â–’â–’â–’â–’â–’
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM): Necromancer, Vixen in the Eyes of the Moon, Kokonilly
Asatruar: Frigid Symphony
Green Cow: curious and questioning
The Church of the Carrot: emmatheduck, Unintended Pun, NerdAndProudOf It, Beatlesrockr
Very Confused: lifewithoutsuffering
Graeco-agnosticism: /gradster(1)/
Non-practicing Believer of Subwayism: Faye Beauchamp
Dumr-Sirism/Jedi (on Earth): KaiYves
Unitarian Universalist: Logogeo96
First post?
I think people need to be more open-minded. I read The Da Vinci Code recently. It’s rather interesting.
Yeah! I’ve never been second post before! Anyway, I think you’re right. The trouble is, all the churches thought it was TRUE. Two words: It wasn’t.
My English class is delving really close to religion in our current topics of discussion, which are destiny and moral responsbility. I think it’s really cool what other people in the class think, because we have Athiests, Christians, Catholics, Christian-by-birth-now-questionings, Mormons…it’s just really cool. Plus, most people the the class are mature enough that we can carry on a discussion about religion (or topics closely related to religion) and not have anybody throwing daggers at each other.
I doubt that kind of thing could ever happen at my school. There are so many Christians, and only a handful of other religions- there’s probably less than 10 atheists in a school of about a thousand and a half. Probably less. And many are the dagger-throwing type. Like when we were reading a Greek story in English last year, everyone was like “Well his motive is obviously false since there are no Greek Gods and so they couldn’t have talked to him” and that kind of thing. And I was glared at when I mentioned that someone could say the same for Christianity, and if there was no way to disprove the existence of that God then there would be no way to disprove the existence of them.
4- Funny, my school is just the opposite. There aren’t so many Christians but there are quite a few Atheists, most of whom are dagger-throwers.
4 – My school is like that. Very depressing.
6- Depressing on my side of the street, too…It’s hard to be a minority…
My class is mainly Atheists, Reform Jews, and Christians. However, none of them are very practicing, and only one person goes to church each week. (Or synagogue or mosque or etc…)
7 – It’s also depressing when everybody asks you if you’re Vietnamese or Korean and then, when I tell them I’m Filipino, call me ‘Filipinish’.
3 – We did a religion study in 6th grade, but we were younger and didn’t have many serious discussions etc.
My school is made up of almost all Christians with a fair number of conservative and reform Jews thrown in there and a few atheists. Everyone, even the atheists, goes to church/synagogue on Sunday, although no one is particularly religious (except this one Jewish kid who keeps saying that I’m not really Jewish because I’m an atheist).
The religion list isn’t posted. Did I miss something? Or did it get to confusing to update?
11- No, its been getting updated recently I have no idea why its not on this thread! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
On the old thread we were on the topic of religion in government (even though its not supposed to be there) and how confusing the US motto “In God We Trust” is and how god is just as unproven as spirits and such! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
At my school the main amount of people just don’t believe in anything. There are very few Muslims, no Jews, (as far as I am aware), and a sprinkling of Christians. Maybe about fifty out of 2 thousand – maybe as much as a hundred. We have a Christian union which about twenty people attend.
A lot of people say they are Christian, but don’t believe in God. They’re just Christian by birth, and so say that that is “their” religion, even if they don’t agree with it. In RE we discussed Christian beliefs – when the teacher outlined a few beliefs (or Christians) and asked the class who agreed with them, only two other girls and I said we did. However, if you asked every one in the class to write down their religion, most of them would have said “Christian” because they’ve been christened, or because they go to Church at Easter.
12-America’s roots seem strongly embedded in religion. I think that’s because, particularly in its earlier days, the nation liked to think of itself as “divinely chosen” as a haven for liberty and happiness. I don’t necessarily agree with that view, nor do I vehemently disagree. I just think that its how a great deal of America envisioned itself. It was natural for politicians to try to carry that through even when our exceptionality (yes, I know that’s not a word
) as a democratic place with guaranteed freedom of speech has receeded because of other nations guaranteeing and fulfilling their promises that the same natural rights will not be infringed upon. I guess my point is that if you look at many early to early-ish American documents, a lot of mention is made, directly or indirectly, to America in corrollation with God. For example: Manifest Destiny being symbolic of the frontier. I think people, fueled also by politicians, are unwilling to relinquish that deeply embedded part of American culture, which is why we end up with so many references to God blessing America, even in the modern world.
) we have exhausted this topic, I think it might be interesting to discuss Islam’s forbidding people from portraying Allah. I think its quite and interesting topic, and in a sense I almost agree, though I won’t launch into that rant just yet. 
On another note, I am atheist, but I’m good with religion so long as there is freedom to practice whichever religion and it is understood that religion exists in a different realm from science. Last year, I read an article in a newspaper that inflamed me. In some state, I can’t remember which, prisoners who became devout Evangelical Christians were moved to a special much nicer prison with entartainment and seperate bunking. This is SUCH and infringement of freedom of religion, from my point of view. I was wondering what you others thought about it.
Finally, when (if ever
14- I agree with you, rewarding people for giving up their own faith is definitely an infringement of our First Amendment rights.
14 – Oh, wow. That’s pretty awful, about the prisoners. That certainly seems like showing favortism based on religion to me.
Yeah! It drives me particularly insane, because they all have to convert to a certain religion specified by the state, if they want to have a decent existence.
14 – Um, I didn’t read all of that, but I agree with the giving up on religion bit.
14-How would they know if the prisoners actually believed in the stuff? It’s pretty easy to lie about that. And more importantly why is a government institution doing that sort of religious favoritism?
19- I don’t think it would bother them too much if the prisoner’s lied. After all, they were still going through the routines and submitting their personal beliefs to the state’s prescription.
2 – Yeah! Everybody took it as fact. It (probably) wasn’t, although it was entirely plausible and believable.
19 – Well, that’s the question. And as to the lying, you would have to participate in their rituals and stuff.
14- Nice way to get things rolling
-The founding fathers were deists (God is a “clockmaker” who crated things and might add energy to the universe, but doesn’t interfere.), so they might have though that they had God’s blessing, but they wouldn’t have believed that God was protecting them or anything like that. Manifest Destiny came later, but I completely agree with you on that.
-That’s hard for me to believe, that there would be straight out favoritism from the prison. Are you sure that there wasn’t some tort of program that granted nicer prisoners better living conditions? That’s what pops into my head right away, because I could see some sort of cleric giving very high recommendations to prisoners who “converted”, and then giving him a reputation for “saving” lost souls. Although sometimes devout evangelical Christians can be quite crazy. That actually is believable now. Ignore this bullet.
-I like that part of Islam, because it shows a true and deep respect for God. Too bad it’s not that compatible with Western tradition though, I heard about a statue series on some building in NYC from the 40s depicting the three Abrahamic traditions, but Islam’s had to be removed.
~Interesting fact: Americans are more likely to say that they are religious, but not be, and Europeans are morel likely to say that they aren’t, but be religious.
23 – Interesting fact, indeed. And true as well, from my experience.
I’m not quite sure what I am now. I honestly don’t believe in God, but I’m not sure what I DO believe in. Maybe the Force. But I’m not sure.
23-Thanks!
A couple of things to help anyone who looks this up: the place was Newton, Iowa, although there are similair programs in other places, and the prison was called Unit E.
A man left the program becuase he felt as though tremendous pressure was being exerted on him to conform completely in terms of religion (“My No. 1 reason for leaving the program was that I personally felt spiritually crushed”). And keep in mind, this means he goes from a prison which serves food from real-world restaraunts, gives its inmates computer acess, and sometimes even invites live bands to come play for them to the alternative prison, which does not have, in most cells, partitions between the bathroom and the beds, so that there is no privacy whatsoever. The political justification that the people responsible for this gave was that the inmates deserved it becuase they were repenting for their cirmes more fully. It shocks me that they could be so parochial as to assume that the only way people could repent would be through a specific religion endorsed by the state. One last thing…government financially sponsors this prison.
Okay, I am going to adress the other topic that Vendaval touched upon: Muslims’s not portraying Allah. I think it’s not a bad idea. By portraying Allah, or any supreme being, you almost reduce Him to someone that is at a human level. When He is formless, He suddenly becomes more august and powerful, because He is not limited to the human scope of understanding. I’m an atheist, by birth and by choice, but I still prefer the idea of a formless god (a god “the color of water” for those of you who have read the McBryde book) to a God with a set human form. However, I also agree with Vendaval. This is dependent on the nature of the religion. Christianity, to take an example, is deeply rooted in human representation and maybe it is better that way. After all, some of the finest art to date was commisioned by the Church. Ultimately, I think, religion chooses a motif of expression best suited to its nature.
Still, its an interesting question…Taking it a step further, when religions that do portray their deities, pint/sculpt/ draw (or depict in some way) them, are their depictions meant to be only symbols or really representative of how the deities actually look?
25 – Yes. I agree.
My, this topic draws out a lot of long posts, doesn’t it?
My few of God:
God is ever thing. life, the forces that make up the universe, atoms, strings (If there real, String theory is not really a theory, I think), quarks, what ever, are parts of God.
I’m a Christian, but liberal. I”M SORRY IF I UPSET ANYONE IN THE NEXT LINE.
I think some athiest take the bible to literally.
Oh, Carrot!
I’m not too upset, but I do think you’re wrong. I’m also sorry if I upset anyone here. I think that it’s really hard to take the Bible literally. I don’t think anyone really does. No one, I think, can really believe the myths in it as true. I find it about as plausible as Harry Potter.
29- Some people take Harry Potter too seriously.
27- I agree that the Bible shouldn’t be taken absolutely literally. Most of the stuff in there is allegory.
29- THATS WHAT I MEAN! look:
Athiests think the bible has to many scientive problems to be taking lierally. the constives think that scince has to many problems with the bible to be taken literally.
I do not say you belive it. I say you don’t belive it, and they way you don’t belive it is because you look at it lierally.
30- and The Cobert Report is a Favorite show of Conseritives. and the Onion is the one to blame for about 1/2 of all fake E-Mails.
32- But there are some Christians/Catholics that take it exactly as written. Way to literally. And then trouble comes.
34-I agree completely. I think religion can be a good think so long as people realize that it must not be confused with science. They exist in two entirely distinct realms and are not mutually exclusive. They should not be mutually exclusive. Also, a person’s personal beliefs should be their own affair entirely, more completely so, I think, than anything else about them. If their religion influences people’s perception of them, which it too often, particularly in politics, does, there is a problem. What is religion anyway?
32- I am an atheist, not just because I don’t believe the bible could be literally true, but because I believe a lot of the main ideas of christianity and other religions seem to make logical sense. Not just the minor details of the bible. To me, even the existence of a god, at least any god similar to the christian one, doesn’t seem very plausible. I suppose a non-intervening one, like in deism, could maybe work, but that’s about it.
31–Totally agree. Take Genesis, for example. It’s possible that the world got created in seven days (it’s God, so I suppose he can do what He wants) but it seems more plausible to me that “days” were really “thousands of years” or maybe even “millions of years”. I dunno. Sometimes people debate these things and in the end, I have to wonder if it really matters…who cares how long it took to get the world made, it got made, and that’s really all I’m concerned about.
.37- I think the main debate when you bring up that point is the fact that some people think it is okay to teach Genesis as part of a science class. This leads into the debates of what it really meant, but the real problem is the people who want to impose their religious beliefs on children who may not have the opportunity to learn
the truth……I’m getting carried away.
30-Like me.
I’m always using characters and situations to make examples.
38-I aggree, teaching Genisis in school as if it was fact and not a belief is wrong.
I’m not an atheist because I don’t believe everything in the bible. I’m an atheist solely and purely because religion doesn’t fit into my life or my mentality. A huge part of it is that I was raised in an atheist family, the rest of it is just how I function. I love learning about religion in historical terms, but when it comes to participating, I am mostly apathetic. Even if I were to convert, I think I would always think of religion as some sort of awkward addendum and not a part of the real essence of myself.
…sorry, I seem to have accidentally hit submit
…
There seems to me no point in participating in something unless it has a distinct meaning and value for me. Becuase of who I am, how I’ve been brought up, and my long-ingrained habits, religion probably wouldn’t. I’m not an atheist, because I think religion is bad, I’m an atheist because religion means very little to me as a person.
36 I agree that stuff makes no logical sens but it makes psychological sens you can lurn tuns from it about basic human archetypes how humans think consciously or unconsciously. think of it as a story written by a foren alien species and be a xeneoligor and figure out why thees guys found it necessary to have the first woman be the betrayer why a seven day creation why a tree of wisdom when a science teacher takes the Bible literally it gives you some thing to work off of so you can Analise that teacher (and eventual find the one thing that will convince him/her to let you out of science/Bible studies:)but believe me their are super natural beings out their:so I see no reason why their aren’t gods….
I have not seen alot about greek polythesim…
Erm…does anyone believe in greek polytheism anymore? I suppose there’s someone out there…
Yeah, it is a little strange when you get into religion in school, but at my school, it’s mostly just mentioned in passing, not as an actual fact/theory. Also so many people are familiar with the story that it really isn’t a problem.
well im sorta a 1/2 believer in greek polythesim in my spare time.
Greek polytheism? Read Percy Jackson and the Olympians. Very good.
25- I agree with you that the situation that occurred was both prejudiced and destructive, but I’m left to wonder if there are viable applications for religion in a correctional institution. It’s been shown that men who have committed crimes in the past and get married when released from prison commit fewer crimes than those who don’t. I wouldn’t be surprised if the same held true for someone who truly found religion. That said, the program wasn’t directly government run either, companies are paid to run the prisons for the government.
27/32- Whenever anybody takes something too literally there will be problems. The extreme atheists see the bible as ridiculous, while the extreme Christians see the bible as the only truth. I myself feel that some verses are actually true, while most others are just poetry. Keep in mind that there have been numerous translations and edits to the book throughout the ages, probably distorting some things.
33- That’s one of my favorite shows! I like the way he mocks conservatives in a deadpan way though.
41- That’s interesting. I guess that has a lot to do with how religions continue on, but I wonder what your reasons are. It has seemed to me that many of the reasons some people take as signs of God are taken by others as proof of lack of one.
45- Sounds more like a hobby than a religion.
its sorta cheesy,,, but yeah, already did that
I think it might be sort of interesting to go through the various religions listed on top and have followers (or others) explain their central beliefs a little.
Hmmm. Deep philosophical question of the day (
): What is religion? Is it just a belief involving some sort of supreme deity? Or is there something more to it? Can it be any belief that explains natural phenomenon? Does science, then, count as a religion?
Also, GAPS’s, can I purlease (no W’s here
) go on the list as a happy atheist! Danke (slight injection of Coy Woodnesse there! 
)
49–that would be interesting (to have people explain their faiths, I mean, in an organized fashion, that is). Except we’ll have to be sure to take each denomination/version at a time.
Can I go on the list as a Presbyterian? Muchas Gracias.
I think that religion implies a supernatural element. Belief in science is just that–a belief, in theories and reason, if you want to be exact. Religion has a more faith-based portion to it, I think.
49 -I like that idea. Should we start with what we are, or work our way down the list?
I think it might be more systematic to try working our way gradually down the list.
can i please goo happy aetheist too? Ill delve deeper later.
52-I agree! Is FantasyFan around, or anyone who is Muslim?
Also, where are the GAPAs on the list?
55- I don’t think any GAPAs have revealed their religious affiliation. And I think it’s good that way.
54- I’m not Muslim, however, a couple of generation back my paternal family is, and I studied Islam in school last year, so I can tell a little, even if I’m not as good of a source as FantasyFan might have been. I started typing up a post in Word, however homework (what else?) got in my way. Once I have a free moment, I will try to get it up here.
55- That could be trouble.
I have not seen FantasyFan. Should I explain Islam? I’m no expert, but I could get the basics.
57-If Hypatia will do it, that will probably work!
Sorry for that unnecessary post, I didn’t refresh the page before posting, so I didn’t see the others.
I’m especially interested in the differences between the different atheisms.
60 – Yeah, what is the difference? I’ve been wondering…
Should I explain UCC?
62- I’m a UCC member too, but I’m sure there are regional differences as the organization is…hmm…some word…individually autonomous? i think we’re going religion by religion though.
I go to a Unitarian Universalist church, but I don’t think of it as a religion. The beliefs are basically we have rights, and be a nice person. In RE class, we just finished an OWL unit. Which is not very religious at all.
Sorry for double posting, but what’s The Church of the Carrot?
65- This is what Purple Panda told me on the last thread:
IBCF (14): Here’s the origin:
114. Rebecca Lasley (Administrator) �|� October 19th, 2007 at 9:47 pm
(113) No one is expected to believe it. Reminds me of some friends in high school who formed a religion around a carrot.
#
115. emmatheduck �|� October 20th, 2007 at 12:01 pm
114-OMG seriously? I LOVE carrots! What was the religion called? What did they do? Was it a specific carrot, or carrots in general? Did they have to stop eating carrots? Can I convert?
#
116. Rebecca Lasley (Administrator) �|� October 20th, 2007 at 1:38 pm
(115) Carrots in general, I believe. Because carrots pointed the way. I don’t remember many other details, though I vividly recall the poster in the band hall and the photo in the yearbook. Admittedly, the photo is tucked into the back pages and bears no caption. Non-initiates may have wondered.
I’m sure the original adherents would be delighted if a new generation wanted to take the baton, uh, root, and run with it. It’s also true there aren’t enough religions or philosophies founded by someone named Zip.
As for whether ingestion of carrots should be encouraged or taboo, I suppose that would depend upon one’s
personal preferencestheoretical interpretations.122. emmatheduck �|� October 21st, 2007 at 11:05 am
116-Ok, I’m converting! I’m still eating carrots though. I could never give up eating carrots.
123. Rebecca Lasley (Administrator) �|� October 21st, 2007 at 11:39 am
(122) That works — turn carrot eating into a ritual, partake of the essence, enrich the world with beta-carotene….
124. emmatheduck �|� October 21st, 2007 at 8:50 pm
123-I already do. I believe that it was carrots that helped me through the spelling bee, and have worshipped them ever since.
125. Prarilius Canix who cannot WAIT for NaNoWriMo to begin in 11 days �|� October 21st, 2007 at 9:59 pm
The Church of the Carrot. I like it.
But I won’t be converting anytime soon.
By the way, did anyone read my post on the last thread about the term Jewish atheist? I know it’s a bit picky, but I find the term secular/humanistic Jew more appropriate.
A brief, disjointed, and not-very-clear explanation of Islam’s beginnings that I will presntly add to:
The domestication of the camel was instrumental in the populating of the Arabian Peninsula. Camels were first domesticated by Arabs, whom legend gives as the far off-relations of Abraham, and scholars identify as kin to Hebrews, Assyrians, and Arameneans (settled in the more fertile land of Syria). Dates are unknown for when domestication actually occurred, though estimates place it at somewhere between 3000 and 1000 BCE. Arabian dromedary camels have a much higher resilience to lack of water, dry flora, and intense heat than horses do. The fat in their humps provides reserve, preventing them from starving in extreme conditions. With camels at their disposal, Arabs began to move away from their sedentary kin, further and further into the poor conditions of the desert. There, they formed pagan nomadic tribes. The tribes rarely mixed and mostly roamed the desert in tiny huddles, sustaining themselves through raiding other tribes, helping to provide protection to caravans running between Syria and the Indian Ocean, serving in empire’s armies, farming (for the more established), or camel breeding. Shaykhs, or elected elders, determined in what pursuits their tribe would engage. Their main cultural outlet was poetry adressing the muruwwa: the moral code of the nomads. The politics of the pre-Islam Arabic world were tumultous. Byzantine Empire, Persia, and Epiothia contended fiercely for domination in the peninsula. Each of the empires won the allegiance of one of the more important tribes through providing them with goods: the Ghassinids who served in the Byzantine military, the Lakhmids who were pro-Persia, and the Tribe of Kinda, for Ethiopia. This dispute launched the territory into tribal conflict, and Southern Arabia was under two foreign powers: Ethiopia and Persia in the 6th and 7th centuries. However, the center and the North managed to retain independence. Mecca was already a central city, notable for three things: a poetry fair, Mount Arafat (considered holy), and the Ka’ba, later made prominent by its significance for Islam, then home to the 360 or so idles that animism, the pagan religion practiced by the nomads, worshipped.
Okay, this is taking much much longer than I had expected it to seeing as I haven’t even gotten to Islam yet, and I do have an insane amount of homework to do, so I pormise I’ll finish up in a bit, unless someone else wants to.
Also, I hope I don’t have any blatant factual errors. I got this from my last years textbook, but I am not sure that I interpreted it all correctly. I am really sorry if I messed something important up!
Camels? I was uncertain at first, but I think I might like how this is done. Background information is good.
?
Can I assume from your name, Hypatia, that you are an atheist who is skilled in maths, and might have an aversion to Coptic Christians
There’s a story that has to do with Muhammad and Arabian horses. Should I go ahead and post, or should I wait until we’ve reached that point chronologically?
People aren’t posting very densely…I dunno why.
Carrots…..the joy!
70-Go ahead and post it, I would say. The previous post sapped a lot of my energy ; ), and I have got quite a bit of homework so it will be a bit before I get the next sequence up.
Carrots? They’re okay. I’m not converting.
Flying Spaghetti Monster? Maybe.
73 – INVISIBLE PINK UNICORN.
One of my friends at school is Mormon…I don’t know too much about it, though. -goes to Wikipedia-
74 – Invisible pink unicorn? Huh?
Ok, here’s the story of how the Arabian horse breed came to be. I tried to google it online, but I couldn’t find it. I’m actually not positive anymore if the main person even was Muhammad…so I’ll just call him “man” and he can be who you want him to be.
Thousands of years ago, a man lived in the desert. He was the head of a poor tribe, and one day he prayed to God to send him some way to make his people rich. Suddenly, he heard a voice, and this is what it said:
“Gather your people’s horses, every colt, filly, mare, and stallion. Lock them in a sturdy corral and keep them there for three days without food or water. On the third day, release them, and let them run to the oasis. Just as they are about to drink the water, take your horn and blow the war call. The horses that return from the water’s edge will be your blessing. They will give you power beyond all the other tribes.”
The man fell on his face and praised God. Then he rose, and gathered every single one of his people’s mounts, every colt, filly, mare and stallion. He locked them in the corral for three days without food or water. And on the third day, just as the voice had said, the man let the horses go.
Immediately they stampeded for the oasis, half-crazed with thirst. But just as they were about to reach the water, the man drew his war-horn from his sash and blew three blasts on it.
None of the horses even heard. They splashed into the water and drank their fill, too thirsty to heed even the call for war. The man was just about to lose hope when he saw a single mare, pure black with a star on her forehead, lift her head and turn away from the water’s edge. She galloped to the man and stood before him, waiting eagerly to be taken to war.
From that mare a new breed of horse was born. They were beautiful and strong, as eager to race and fight as their masters, and swifter than a desert fox. With these horses, the man’s people were able to conquer the tribes who used to mock them. They became the wealthiest, strongest nation, thanks to the Arabian horse, the Drinker of the Wind.
So that’s it! As I was writing it I think it was Muhammad…but I’m not sure. Add to it if you’ve heard this legend before.
75- The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is a religion that was formed to mock the teaching of intelligent design in Kansan schools. The Invisible Pink Unicorn has been around for longer, and is a response by an atheist to believers in religion. They “believe” an enormous IPU is controlling everything as a god, but we can’t prove it.
If you had to chose between FSM and IPU for a athiest making fun of Biblical literlist, which whould it be?
hey, why am I not on the list at the top?
78- Well, I’m not an atheist, but I still do make fun of Biblical literalists, and I usually talk about FSM to make a point, as it’s better known.
Ah. Well then. I guess I now have three options:
Atheist
FSM
IPU
could the gapa put me in on the top as a “Wiccan pantheist druid reconstructionist = leondian” pleas ? 77interesting…. and what brot up the idea of the flying spaghetti monster?…..
Humph. How would you atheists like it if Christians made fun of your beliefs?
83- look at it. 53% of the Population of America does not belive in evolution. Now Who’s crazy?
ARD, are you a Creationist?
It’s not making fun of Christianity, just Fundementalism.
83–I’m not sure if they’re making fun of Christianity…unless you’re a Literalist, I suppose. But don’t be offended, we’re just being silly.
77 – It can’t be disproved either, can it?
78 – I’d choose IPU, because people seem slightly less likely to believe in a Flying Spaghetti Monster. Last year in my history class we had to choose a religion to learn about, and our teacher made us do Calvinism instead of Pastafarianism.
83 – Many people do. What do you think it’s like having a discussion about religion in school and having people tell you you’re going to hell for not believing in God? Besides, it’s not really making fun of Christianity, just religion in general.
Hey, GAPAs, can I be listed under both Athiest and IPU on the Religion’s list?
87 – I was originally with FSM, but then I switched to IPU. However, the FSM openly supports pirates as the IPU does not, so I converted back to being a pastafarian. But then I just decided it was all rather silly and now am a Non-Practicing Believer of Subwayism.
83-Ditto Cat’s Meow. People make fun of Atheism all the time. Sorry to jump on you, but that is what I think. Lurline says belief helps keep her alive, so she understands it’s importance.
87, 89- On the Blog, I meant.
88 – Teehee. Out of curiosity, I just Googled “Subwayism”. Your original post about Subwayism is the third website that comes up. Yes, that’s the post that says “Don’t bother googling it, you probably won’t find a definition”. I should have listened to you, I guess.
I heard people were mixing their religions like you might create a myspace page. That, my friends, is absolute poo.
I know many, many people that are with one religion and people should not generalize as such.
90-Sorry!
-92
Erm…so are we going to explain our religions in order? I can always do some research on Islam but I think it would be better if someone who actually knows what they’re talking about wrote about it. If no one posts in a couple of days then I’ll just find the basics. (Sorry, I don’t mean to come off all serious, I’m just impatient
it’s one of my vices)
90 – I guess I just don’t see how it’s that big of a deal. I mean, obviously we don’t really believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn (May her hooves never be shod) or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or The Church of the Carrot. It’s all meant in fun, and I’m sorry if you don’t see it that way.
hey!!! I didn’t notice how many other presbyterians there are here. I don’t think we’re different much from other protestants, except that one of our symbols is the flower of a thistle plant, that’s cool
95-I know just what you mean. And its really not a vice at all! Or atleast I hope not!
I really plan on posting the rest as soon as possible, but somehow, something keeps getting in the way. I’ll try to exert some kind of conscious effort and get the rest of the story up within a week. Sorry about the delay…unless someone else wants to get a bit up. *looks hopeful* ; )
97–we have a symbol? Awesome.
99- Lots of religions have symbols, the UU symbol is a chalice and we light a big chalice at the begining of church and a smaller chalice at the begining of Sunday school! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
The IPU religion has a symbol. It’s an Invisible Pink Unicorn. Imagine that.
101- like this one:
?
what happened? I hit enter about five times.
Are there any other Christian Scientists here on MB?
102 – You can just look it up on Wikipedia to see the “official” symbol.
I had a great aunt & uncle I once knew who were christian scientists! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
“The Church of the Carrot”? “Dumr-Sirism/Jedi”? Aw, give me a break…
107- Hi ARD! What are you saying about that? Why can’t they say that’s there belief system? (I’m starting to use this to not offend athiests/agnostists.
107 – Why not?
From the IPU Wikipedia article: “The point of this silliness is to prod the theist into remembering that their preaching is likely to be viewed by atheists as having all the credibility and seriousness of [the atheists’] preaching about the IPU.”
I’m listed as “Conservative Jewish” but i’m not really. My Jewish denomination is very blurry and undefined; could I please be moved to the general “Jewish” section?
I have a question for people who are claiming belief in the IPU and other spoofs on traditional religion.
Are you claiming belief only because you think they’re funny or do you consider them a valid representation of your opinion about religion?
I actually do have a traditional religion, but I heard these guys in England wrote “Jedi” on their census forms for “religion” and I always wanted to do that.
111- I never knew it was called “Dumr-Sirism.”
I just read the IPU article on Wikipedia. It sounds flamablamablous!
110 – I think they’re funny and they’re a valid representation. Belief in the IPU or the FSM is basically equivalent to being an athiest, and it’s one way to try and make religious people understand why it’s so hard to “save us”.
113 – Isn’t it? The FSM one is awesome too, with the pirates and global warming and all.
111- Fair enough.
What about the rest of you?
114- So it’s a way of protesting proselityzing? (or at least point out its futilness and ask those proselityzing to go home and leave you in peace) [Sorry if I’m completly misinterpriting what you said. I’m genuinly curious in what FSM and IPU mean beyond the obvious humor element]
I also found the FSM to be very very funny. May the IPU save the pirates.
116 – Sort of. I mean, that’s sort of the excuse a lot of people use, but I get the feeling that most people just do it to be funny, and then use that as an excuse. Plus, for me, it gives me an interesting subject change when people start talking about religion at school. And I guess, at some level, it’s just fun to see the really religious people freak out when you say you worship an Invisible Pink Unicorn.
116- I have a “real” religion that’s often a way of protesting the mainstream! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
I have just recently connected the Quaker God and the Chi to find my religious truth. I now belive in the life force, I will not worship it but celebrate it, for life would be fruitless without it! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
117- Oh, the looks on their faces must be priceless.
Hm. I think I now believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Or Jedi.
118- Define “real” please. It seems you’re making your own random mixed bag of beliefs.
And please don’t get offended, but it makes it hard for me to take you seriously when you end all separate thoughts with a series of exclamation points.
Oh, almighty carrot! Hear our prayer!
What are your prayers?
I’m definite Flying Spaghetti Monster.
124- I thought you were called Pastafarians? (????? perhaps I’m wrong?????) *is totally serious*
125- That’s the right term.
125 – Yup, you’re right.
111–I should so do that on my college aps. And then hide a camera in the admissions office so I could see their faces.
128 – Some people put Pig Latin on their college applications under foreign languages. Although, I suspect that some colleges would appreciate that type of thing more then others.
121- Unitarian versalists are people with mixed bags of random beliefs the just about only common things are the 7 main UU principles and purposes! ! ! ! ! ! ! !:
The 7 main principles:
We, the member congregations of the Unitarian Universalist Association, covenant to affirm and promote:
-The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
-Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
-Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
-A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
-The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
-The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
-Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
What does it mean to be Agnostic?
131- to be netrual on if or if not there is a god.
132- More undecided than strictly neutral.
Oh, okay. That makes sense. Hmm…that almost makes me Agnostic rather then Athiest. -ponders-
I went to church today (unwillingly) and I felt so stupid. My mind was drifting off, and I thought Wow. These people really like this guy. It’s almost like they worship him — Oh… never mind.
So, why doesn’t anyone actually talk about religions on this thread, instead of just talking about Flying Spaghetti Monsters? No offense, but that’s ridiculous. Or is it just because if someone comes on here and actually says something about God they are jumped on? I’ve noticed that, too. I’m just saying that it seems that this thread is a bit pointless if no one actually uses it in a constructive way, learning about other ways of thinking.
136-I believe we were trying to talk about the religions down the list. We just finished Islam, so let’s move to Reform Judaism, (next on the list)! If no Reform Jews are around, I am knowledgable and can cover… Also, the FSM is a Religion. It may be silly-seeming, but it is a point! Talking about God shouldn’t get you jumped on, though. This should be a safe yet innovative thread, I think… (End Rant)
Never heard of Reform Judaism. Ever.
138- You learn something new every day.
I’m not a Reform Jew, but know enough about the ideas to talk about them.
Reform Judaism is based off of the idea that Judaism must change with the people. The belief here is ongoing revelation; the revelation that resulted in the Written Torah (The Jewish Bible, roughly equivalent to the Old Testament) was not final. As times change and people change the guidelines change also to meet the daily needs of the people.
Another focus is on inclusion. Reform Judaism embraces all men and woman as being equal religiously regardless of race or sexual orientation.
Additionally, Reform Judaism maintains that people have a responsibility to try and fix the world (Tikkun Olam).
139 – Interesting.
139- Reform Judaisom was meant to be as much of a lifestyle as a religion, if I was jewish I would want to be a reform jew! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
141- All denominations of Judaism are meant to be lifestyles.
What do you find attractive about Reform Judaism?
That’s it. Put me under “atheist” and “Church of the FSM”, please.
139–that’s pretty cool, esp. the fixing the world part.
Even tho I’m Christian, I think there’s things learned from most religions. Even the Church of the FSM.
Yes, you can learn a lot from other religions!
Indeed, one can!
yes…I’m wiccan/plain old pagan/Flying spaghetti monster/regular old guy.
I’m a methodist and just got confirmed this May.
It’s weird because I’m beginning to learn church is almost as much a social event as it is a religous one, at least in my church.
Have any of you guys heard about Westboro baptist church? Its awful they have these picket signs they take to soldiers funerals and say “thank god for dead soldiers.” And they say absolutely horrififc things about gay people. Google it, its freaky.
I like learning about other religions.
I just reread the list of religions at the top, and I would be under either “Very Confused”, “FSM”, or a new category called “Kind of believes in the power of the elements but kind of not and doesn’t know what this would be called”.
Has anyone heard of St. Loony up the Cream Bun and Jam?
(149) Where I work, someone who believes in the power of the elements would be called a chemist.
148- yeah. there awful.
150 – *doesn’t get it* *figures it out* *laughs her head off*
Yay! Chemistry!
150- That makes sense.
l5o. *dies laughing* *is reincarnated*
In egypt we went up the mountain that Moses suposedlt got the commandments, and this one catholic boy was serriously having a religios experience. And I was having anon-religious experiance. And so we were sharing in the experiences, and then the teacher ruined it by saying to the guide, ‘Isn’t that cute? The catholic boy and the poor confused girl without faith are havng fun together. ‘
“The poor confused girl without faith”?
-154 er….what?
148 – That’s so awful. I can’t believe they would do that.
148- Oh, that’s awful. gay people are nice. And the poor soldiers families….
154- how rude.
I hate Westboro church.
Westboro Baptist Church are probably the most extremist religious group on the planet. They condemned Jerry Falwell because he “wasn’t anti-gay enough.”
Sorry if I’m interrupting the general conversation here, but I just want to make an insert….
27 (The Man for AEIOU)~ I see where you are coming from, as God is everything, but I disagree with your idea of “everything.” By saying that God is in quarks and atoms, and other parts of matter you are pretty much saying that God is a material substance. I disagree with this. if God is a material substance, then He is a finite thing. This rather goes against what we’ve learned about God, in my mind, because God is everlasting, right? So, I’d say that God is a spiritual being.
As far as God being everything, yes, every good and spiritual quality originates in God. We (and our world, and universe, and everything) are reflections of Him.
You can find a lot of God-like qualities in matter, but that’s not saying that it’s actually a “piece” of God.
This is not to discredit what you have said, I respect your ideas, and I largely agree with them. I’m just changing the definition of “everything” to what it means to me.
162- That’s what I was saying. I have trouble expressing corectly.
163~ Oh, that’s cool then! Actually, I find your writing to be quite clear, actually.
*rereads list*
Aha! I’m under “Mixed Bag of Random Beliefs!”
30 – *rips heads off HP-haters*
148 – I can’t say anything that hasn’t already been said. That’s awful.
154- Thats one of the flaws of the bible & ten commandments he gets the commandments and then gets angry and breaks them then goes into the forest and remembers and writes them down again off the top of his head. Well it would be like trying to remember a grocery list you forgot at home are you really going to remember everything on the list in exact detail?! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
29- Wrong. I believe many of the “myths” in the Bible.
31- Is it? Can you prove that?
167/31–that’s true, we don’t really know. Which is pretty much my answer to most religious questions.
167/168- Just because people are fictional [or nonfictional] doesn’t stop them from being real.
There were many people who lived in Spain in the year 1285. I do not question their existence, nor, I think, do other MBers on this thread. To me, however, they are less “real” than Abraham (about whose existence I am agnostic) , or even Willy Loman (Death of a Salesman is brilliant. Absolutely brilliant).
This is because the random Spanish people I mentioned are simply that– random people I know almost nothing about, a swarming mass of people without individuality or character.
In contrast, I have heard stories of Abraham my whole life. I may have imagined the face I give to him, but the stories about him, and by extension, the Characters in the stories, are real in the sense that they affect me. (By imbuing me with a moral, or highlighting an issue I hadn’t thought of, etc.)
I have yet to meet a single person who thinks Willy Loman is an actual person (Based on real people, surly, but not a biological human). He is still real though because he has personality, dreams, and a life story.
In short, Biblical stories and people are real. They affect millions and millions upon millions of people daily. They affect and effect situations and outcomes. But did they exist? I haven’t a clue.
167- No, I can’t prove it, but if you take everything absolutely literally, there are a bunch of things that wouldn’t work. For instance, if Adam and Eve were the only two human beings on the planet, and all their children were sons (Cain, Abel, Seth)… how did the human race survive, barring incest?
167- I can’t prove it. All i know is there are Two creation storys, and two noah storys.
167-That’s the problem with religious debate, and even religion! There is no way to prove anything, all of it is faith. That’s why religion is based on faith, and that’s why religion doesn’t like mentioning proof. If you start trying to prove religion, one of two things happens:
1) It all falls apart. Nothing works without faith, and everybody leaves.
2) People want it to be proven, so they resort to faking science and proof, (i.e. Christian “Scientists” and “Scientologists”).
Really, nothing can be proven, though. You can’t prove I’m not a fish!
167- no, it can’t be proven. but you also cannot prove your view to be entirely correct.
I sort of stopped believing in God. I seriously hope there is one who is loving and forgiving because an afterlife would be nice and because it’s nice to think of someone watching over me. but currently I don’t particularly believe in Him. (this is just my views and oppinions that I’m sharing. i’m not saying that I’m right or that I’m wrong, just sharing my opinion) I had a moment of clarity durring science class where, when I thought about stars, planets, galaxies and the universe I just couldn’t see someone creating it and only watching over one tiny planet. When I think only of our planet and not of what is beyond I find it easy to believe in God but when I open up my thoughts to everything beyond I simply can’t bellieve.
170- The Bible tends to leave out things that it doesn’t view as important. It doesn’t talk much about the life of Adam and Eve after they were run out of paradise. They could very well have had a daughter in this time.
172- I’m not trying to prove Christianity, I’m just trying to keep it from being disproved.
173- He does watch over the entire universe. Which is why some black hole or careening galaxy hasn’t destroyed all of us yet.
Nothing can be disproved, either…
166- I don’t think that would be quite the same thing.
170- I’m just noting that, not believing:
Staunch creationalists believe Adam & Eve had purer DNA than we do, it’s just gotten muddled up over time because of all of the inbreeding, or sin, or something.
174- That would still require in-breeding.
176-Purer DNA? *Laughs Sarcastically*
176- I’m not a “staunch creationalist”. Don’t generalize.
I see the startings of a fight here…please try to keep the conversation fairly calm.
180–agreed. And be careful what you say about all religions, no matter how ridiculous they seem, someone might follow one of them and be offended.
I heard an interesting idea about Adam and Eve. It said that Adam and Eve were not the first or even only humans; they were just the first ones to know God. Basically, they were the first with a conscience or soul or the Holy Spirit or whatever you want to call it that makes us human and not animals. I kind of like the idea, it makes more sense to me.
Note: the following thought requests people take the bible litterally not because they believe it is literal but because I am talking about the bible relative to itself making outside history irrelavent. If the thought of a literal bible bothers you, imagine it like a novel. the novel may not be true, but it makes sence as a unit.
Cain kills his brother, but what does death mean to a man who’s never known it? He has never before seen a dead person, so he does not know he can kill. Responces?
(183) That’s an interesting way of looking at it. Abel had killed animals before (he had sacrificed some just before Cain quarreled with him), but Cain just grew plants and could even have been a vegetarian.
I just sometimes like to mix beliefs together to make random things. Like, maybe you would go to heaven, but then be re-born in 1 year or something like that.
181- that is interesting, because some people have different beliefs so maybe Adam and Eve were the first ones to know of God. I’m not a huge expert on this ’cause I’m not Christian, but I’ve heard the idea.
I’m not a big expert on any religions. Not even my own. I mean, I know the main stuff about it, but there are so many things to remember.
183- I think it very likely that Cain was a vegetarian, his parents only having recieved permission to eat of plants in Eden. It’s not until Noah that God officially gives people permission to eat meat.
181- so you believe Adam and Eve were the frst humans but not the first homo sapiens ?
185–I don’t know if I believe it as such, but that’s the idea.
Cool Idea!
There are some Christians who are prejudiced against Jews because they say that “the Jews crucified Christ”. I say this is slightly insane.
188–agreed. The first Christians were Jewish (in race), after all.
Judaism does not recognize crucifiction as a legitimate form of the death penalty (it doesn’t even really recognize the death penalty at all, and essentially managed to legislate it almost out of existance)
Also, Judaism isn’t really a race.
190–true. I guess I mean more that they had Jewish heritage.
.It was the Romans, not the Jews, who crucified Jesus! These Romans, a while later, became Christians. Therefore, the Christians crucified Jesus.
192- Romans killed Jesus. The fact that their descendants converted does not make they themselves Christian, it simply explains why Jesus’s death was pinned on the Jews.
189- Not to mention the fact that Jesus was Jewish too.
174- black holes are at the centers of galaxies. (or so it is believed) we are in orbit around a black hole. that’s all I’m saying. I just don’t understand why He would create so much stuff and space and infiniteness and look after humans. Of all the things to look after, why would he choose humans. speaking of which: do you belive in aliens? just wondering. I am having a good natured conversation so please don’t take anything the wrong way.
175- true.
176- interesting!
181- that’s neat!
188- I know!
195- I know that we’re (possibly) orbiting a black hole. My point was that God keeps order in the universe so that the Earth isn’t harmed (though we’re probably doing more harm to ourselves anyway, with all the pollution and war).
I believe that there may or may not be aliens, but humans are the only creatures with spirits. By “spirits,” I mean that we’re the only ones capable of communicating and believing in God.
I dunno…I with the Universe being infinite and all, I don’t see why there couldn’t be aliens. I don’t think it says in the Bible anywhere that humans are the only beings in the Universe. Could be wrong, tho.
Ooh! Ooh! Here’s where I use my special answer: WHO KNOWS
I think that God has the capacity to watch over the large picture (for example, making sure the galaxy’s are on the right path) and the details (for example, an individual human).
I think it incredably likely that there is alien life, including alien life with some concept of a higher order. I would not expect it to be anything like the God I believe in.
197- No one knows, but everyone has some sort of belief (no one can be agnostic about everything).
196-Why do you think we are the only people to know God? Why wouldn’t God communicate with other life?
-184 what is your religion? (I hope that’s not to much of a personal question.)
172~ Do you mind telling me why you put quotation marks around Christian Scientists? I’m interested in hearing what you have to say; I’m a Christian Scientist.
I understand what you mean about not being able to prove anything, or disprove anything. If you go about it round and round, that’s true. But then why bother discussing anything?
It was my understanding that this thread is for people to discuss their beliefs. If they are trying to prove or justify them, I don’t think it’s really right to say “I think you’re wrong because nothing can be proved.” Perhaps ask a few more questions, and then say why you disagree, or another way of looking at the same topic. That’s just what I think. Do others agree or disagree with this?
I believe in science and logic today.
Have any Python-watchers heard of St. Loony Up the Cream Bun and Jam? (I think I already asked this, oh well.)
Aliens? Maybe… I really don’t know, but I’m leaning towards “Yes!” With so many other planets, there’s probably life… I think the real question is whether there is “intelligent life”. I suppose I think there is… Then again, a lot depends on how you define “intelligence”!
201-Sorry about the quotation marks around “Scientists”! I just don’t feel like Christian Scientists, or Scientologists, really have the “right” to put “Science” in their names. Neither religion is based in science, so it feels a little like cheating to me. Sorry, anyway!
203- Christianity is not based on science, but it can not be disproved by science, either. Why shouldn’t Christians have a right to put “Scientist” next to their name? They have a right to believe what they want to believe.
Wait–you know what a Christian Scientist is, right?
Yes, I know what a Christian Scientist is! Also, I do not believe that the Church of Christ, Scientist, has anything to do with science, logic, proof, or rationality. I think that by putting “Science” in the name, it’s trying to fool people into thinking it’s scientific. Actually, it’s just as faith-based as any other religion!
199- Because we’re his purpose. But who knows? Maybe he does.
205- Okay, then. But I’m not a Christian Scientist. Complain to Midnight Fiddler.
203/204~ Science is anything that can be proven. Now, in your case you say NOTHING can be proven, so perhaps we shouldn’t even be getting into this discussion. Or is it that you just don’t anything having to do with God can be proven?
Christian Science is a perfectly good term I think, because it is, as you say, faith-based like any religion, but it uses the “scientific method” if you will.
Besides, as you’ve mentioned Scientology alongside CS a few times now, I must say that it is not the same thing at all.
206- that’s very selfish of you.
207-Sorry. The only similarity is they both use “Science” in their name!
208- Who knows? Maybe he does.
(172) Bookworm — I think that for practical purposes it would be fairly straightforward to demonstrate that you’re not a fish in any meaningful sense of the word “fish.”
211- I think that all depends. Personally, I am of the belief that you do not think bookworm is a fish for two reasons.
a) worms are not fish
b) you do not consider fish technologically advanced enough to use a computer to blog.
Regarding the first, some fish look like worms and common speech makes no real distinction between what seems to be and what is (a completely different problem. One that can be discussed later.)
Regarding the second, I think that remarkably speciesist. Just because fish do not choose to show us their skills doesn’t mean that that they do not in fact have those skills.
I have a question regarding Christian theology: If Jesus died for people’s sins then how can people go to Hell?
212- hell does not exist.
Christian theology just confuses me. As does much theology. But I do love Greek myths.
Those gods have issues, though….I mean, everyone marries their sisters and brothers and has children with their moms/daughters/sisters. Blech.
(Warning–this paragraph may contain much offensive content. Please do not take any of this personally, this is just what I believe).
213- Um…no. The requirement for escaping hell (in my beliefs, anyway) is to believe in God. Jesus died for our sins, yes, but that doesn’t mean non-believers won’t go to hell. Before Jesus died, everyone (except the high priest) had to be judged for their sins, whether they believed or not. The believers wouldn’t be sent to hell, but they would still have to be punished for their sins. After Jesus died, believers didn’t have to be judged for their sins. But it only qualifies for believers, non-believers will still be judged.
215- Ah. So if a non-believer led a righteous life, en wouldn’t end up in hell?
215/216–the basic Christian theology is that the only way into heaven is by believing that Jesus was God’s son/God come to Earth, and by striving to follow his teachings. There are variations and variations, but that’s the basic idea.
As for non-believers who have never heard of Jesus, I think the best answer is that we don’t really know. The only real guideline the Bible gives us is that Jesus is “the way, the truth and the life” and that you have to believe in Him to get to heaven.
Obviously, there are other religions that believe completely differently, but that’s my take on the whole thing.
216- No, actually. A non-believer who led a righteous life wouldn’t be judged as much, but would still end up in hell.
217- Are you sure? I believe Jewish people will go to heaven, and they don’t think Jesus was God’s son/God.
(POTENTIALLY OFFENSIVE CONTENT. DO NOT READ IF NOT WANTING TO HEAR AN EXTREMELY BLUNT STATEMENT. NO ONE SHOULD TAKE THIS PERSONALLY, SO DON’T GO HATING ME FOR IT. THIS IS JUST WHAT I’VE CONCLUDED WITH MY LIMITED KNOWLEDGE.)
I don’t have anything against Christianity, but I don’t think there is a “heaven” or “hell” in the afterlife. As far as I’m concerned, when you die, game over. To me, Heaven is right here on this earth. It’s the feeling of peace and quiet that you can only appreciate when you’re ready to recognize it for what it is. I love finding that place of your true spirit right inside you, I savor every moment of it.
“Hell” is only a word for constantly living under the oppressive belief that you shall be forgiven for your “sins” in a later life. think. If it turns out there is no second chance, you don’t get another, it’s finished.
A few good books are: Endgame: vol. 1 and vol. 2 by Derrick Jensen, also: The Culture Of Make Believe, also by D.J.
218- there is no surity in this whole discussion. We’re just discussing our beliefs.
It’s also interesting that you (I believe you are Christian, correct me if I am mistaken) think Jews will go to heaven despite not believing Jesus is the Messiah. I (a Jew) do, however, believe Jesus was the son of God. I also believe that I am the daughter of God, and that you are a child of god, etc. In short, I believe that all people are made in God’s image and are his children regardless of what they believe or do not believe.
215- so let say there is a avid church goer. and he murders somebody. what happens to him?
221- He would go to heaven, and his sin would be forgiven. But the person would still be punished…for instance, if a Christian smoked, he would pay for it with lung cancer. If a Christian stole, the law would eventually catch up with him. If a Christian murdered, it would haunt him for the rest of his life. You get the idea. But there’s still some judgement–for 1000 years, God will deal out punishment and reward. Jesus’ death will keep us out of the worst bit, but the person would have to pay for the murder. Then, after the thousand years, all Christians would go to eternal paradice. It’s a bit complicated, though, and not everyone agrees on the matter. I’m not even sure if that’s exactly what will happen. We’ll just have to wait and see.
219-I agree, sadly!
-223 not at all sadly….happily!
Heaven, Hell and Judgment–Midnight Fiddler’s Take:
Heaven and Hell are the same thing and every moment is judgment. This sounds bizarre, but let me explain.
Everyone will eventually “end up” the same place as far as Heaven or Hell, but it’s how we see God’s perfection. If we’ve lived the best we can then it will be a glorious realization of God. If, on the other hand, we’ve spent our lives ignoring God and behaving in an unnatural way (behaving as though we were not created in God’s image and likeness, and not reflecting Divine qualities) then it will be a greatness we cannot comprehend and it will be agony. (Think Prof. Quirrel/Voldemort in the Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s stone; he couldn’t bear so much goodness as was in Harry due to the sacrificial love of his mother, and it ruined him.)
“Repent, for the day of judgment is at hand!” Jesus says this all the time, but it IS at hand–every moment is a challenge and a judgment. And so, your heaven (or Hell) is also at hand, and is continuing.
Material death is not final, Jesus proved that with the resurrection. As far as being physically dead on the cross,I have no doubt that he was, but to me, that’s not the important thing. What is is that he overcame the material “limits” and showed us that Divine Mind is the only real power.
(220 and others) In The World’s Religions, Huston Smith makes a point that I found interesting. Jews and Christians find it natural to talk about being “children of God” and being “made in God’s image,” but Muslims do not. In Islam, God is considered an infinite presence or spirit without an image, and it’s considered crude and wrong to associate Him with anything as biological as having children.
Smith says that Muslims feel the same way about petitionary prayer. The idea that God would strike bargains with individual human beings or change His plans to grant their favors seems to Muslims laughable and distasteful. I wish we still had some Muslims actively posting on the blog with whom we could check these statements.
218–are you a Christian? (Just curious).
Those are the beliefs of my church, at least. I’m Presbyterian.
Yeah, I don’t think we can really say that THIS is how Heaven and Hell work; we all have different beliefs. and we can’t really know. Interesting discussions tho.
I just thought of something interesting, from reading MF’s post 225. Maybe we all go to the same place, but those who love God (those who would traditionally be expected to go to Heaven) would be happy in God’s presence, and those who are afraid of God or hate God or whatever basically have “Hell” because they are tortured by their own guilt or fear.
219 – I agree with you completely. I have the feeling that the ideas of Heaven and Hell were made up by people trying to get others to convert to their religion.
219- I don’t know. I’d like to think that being good or evil counts for something. If our actions didn’t matter, then people could do whatever they wanted. They could murder, cheat, steal, lie, and get away with it. I may not understand what you’re saying, though…
227- Yes, I’m a Christian. Not really any kind of Christian you could put a label on, though. I just believe what’s written in the Bible.
226-So do I…
CONTROVERSIAL. 229-Good and evil does count for something! It counts now, on Earth! After life, maybe it won’t, but it counts now! The thing I really hate about religion is how everyone so firmly believes their religion is right, it’s the only one that’s right, and everyone else is going to Hell! Even in MF’s 225 Description, it seems she believes her religion is right! Why does it matter who’s right? If someone’s wrong, then maybe they’ll get their comeuppance in the afterlife! Or maybe not. Still, why do we need to bother? Why can’t we just say they’re all right? Because all humans believe in the need to get their own way, and be right about EVERYTHING! Religion is just another way of expressing the feelings expressed in war. Who wrote the Bible, the Quran, the Torah? Humans! They may have been “whispered” to by God, but they still wrote it! Almost all of the world’s problems have come from religion. Why can’t it just go away?
229- what do you mean “believe what’s written in the bible”?
226- I think that Jews have no trouble associating things with the image of God because when we say “image” we are not talking about something with two arms, a nose, a stomach, etc. By “image” we mean a way of conducting oneself to be good and just. The potential of a person to behave in a Godly manner.
Also, humans are considered Godly in their ability to create.
Various Jews have spoken out against the concept of “magic” prayer. Praying to God will not get a person a new house, or a doll, or even health. Praying will, however, help a person gain the inner strength to deal with the crisis. More traditionally, prayer is limited to future events. For example, one could pray to have a girl, but one could not pray that a fetus is a girl (since the fetus is already what it is).
226~ I guess we say “His children” because it’s a limit of our language. God is not material, but our language describes mainly material things. obviously, it’s a way we express what we see, hear, smell, taste and feel–material things!
I do think that we are created after God’s image though. But by image, I don’t mean that I “look like” God at all, I mean that I am capable of reflecting God’s qualities. Again, material language is hard to express this in, rather like trying to tell someone how to sing or wriggle their ears.
Another thing, as far as “making a deal” with God when we pray, I don’t think that’s right at all. That smacks of “dark magic” where you call on a demon or spirit and make some sort of bargain. I know that’s not what you meant, but it almost seems that way.
230~ I was explaining what my take on the subjects at hand were, and naturally I wrote as someone who says “this is what I believe to be right.” If I didn’t believe it then I wouldn’t have ever posted it. I do respect other people’s ideas, and I’m not going to say that they’re stupid or wrong because I don’t agree with them. However, I think it’s only natural that when I wrote that I was speaking in a way that sounds like I believe it–because I do!
As far as “why can’t religion just go away” I don’t think it ever will. God is, and will always be, relevant in our lives. Everyone sees Him differently, but I truly think that people can learn to respect other’s choices and to help each other.
God’s laws are universal and nothing can ever change that.
231- so its “Support prayer” Really?
179- Excuse me!
That seems a bit self-centered, I wasn’t referring to you at all. POSOC asked “how did the human race survive, barring incest?”, and I answered with what I know about creationalism.
230- you said:
“Almost all of the world’s problems have come from religion.”
I Respond:
Which Religon Invent the Nuclear Bomb?
Which Religon Create Dictatators?
Which Religon, Really, Did any thing?
~~~
All Problems from Religon are NOT Because of Religon. People that kill other people based on religon would kill other people based on something else.
235–yeah, that’s an important thing to qualify. No religion (except like Satanism, maybe, I dunno) actually tells its follower that killing or stealing etc. is “good”. The problem comes when humans use religion as an excuse to harm others.
229–I was just curious b/c in the New Testament (somewhere, I have NO idea what verse or anything) Jesus says that the only way to heaven is through Him. Much of Christian faith (at least, as I understand it) is based on this idea. And although we certainly can’t be 100% positive on who goes to Heaven and all, this verse would seem to say that anyone who does not believe in Jesus’ divinity would not be going to Heaven.
235-All religions say to be peaceful, but many, many people have used religion as an easy excuse for violence, which, because they still are a member of that religion, they will still get to “Heaven”! I have one way to get to “Heaven”: Be a nice, peaceful, nondiscrimonatory person. That’s about it!
1) The Nuclear Bomb: Hitler caused nuclear bombs. He was a Christian.
2) Every religion, including Atheism, has had its fair share of dictators.
3) Hmmm. The Spanish Inquisition, Conquistadors, the Crusades, 9/11, World War II, just for a start…
237- Hitler caused nuclear warfare? That one’s a bit of a stretch.
237-
1) Thats a big Stretch
2) Thats my Point
3) Did RELIGON, not POLOTICS ABOUT RELIGON Cause any of those?
-237 exactly. it’s just used as an excuse for evil things to be done. Remember slavery was “In the name of ******in’ God.” As our slaves were supposedly not as good as us, it could be said:
“God wants us to do this.”
239- YES! A crusade is a HOLY mission. A Jihab is a HOLY war. the conquistadors massacred the aztecs in the name of the Christian GOD.
241- crud. Dumb founded.
239-1) You’re right, it is! Still, nukes will probably used in religious warfare!
2) But almost all dicators have used God, and religion, as one of their tools!
3)0 In all honesty, I think you’re wrong on this point. Religion is definitely at the root of all of those. The Spanish Inquisition: Christians Kill and Convert Jews! Conquistadors: Christians Kill, Enslave, and Convert Native Americans! The Crusades: Christians Kill Jews and Muslims! World War II: Christians Kill and Enslave Jews! 9/11: Muslims Kill Everyone, (mainly Christians)! Yeah, I’d say all of those have religion at the core!
But remember that the Christian religion by itself does not condone these sorts of acts. They happen when it is misused.
Just to clarify
233- Kind of. The idea is that God does not change the natural order of things because of a single prayer.
The problem is not religion. There is something beautiful about religion, the way it causes people to focus. The way it causes people to stop and think about others, to say “I’m going to give this five dollar bill to the Red Cross and not but candy because that’s what God wants me to do”.
However, one can have too much of a good thing. This is called fanaticism. Just as you can’t blame all water for a tsunami you can’t blame all religous people for the work of a handful of fanatics.
245-I guess you’re right about that last point. I wasn’t trying to blame all religious people as much as blame religion. I think religion has done more bad than good, in the long run. The principle ideals, Be nice, kind, caring, and compassionate are great! The rest of religion, however, has caused so much trouble! Almost all religions share the same ideals, so couldn’t they just stop fighting and become one, unified, belief not in God but in the power of goodness. Then we’d have all the good things with no bad things! Wouldn’t that be loverly?
222- killing someone is a freaking huge sin. (I think). why would God just forgive that huge freaking sin because they were Christian. I could go around killing people right and left and still be Christian, but that does not make me a better person. This is just my view, you don’t have to agree. What good is a God who immediately forgives you for collosal sins on the basis that you have been a devoted Christian? just saying.
230- I see your point. I do wish everyone could live in acceptance and harmony.
237- Hitler didn’t create them though, did he? (i’m totaly no sure on this point) I think it was einstien… I may be completely wrong, if so, please forgive me.
247- Einstein wrote a letter to the president telling him that Hitler could be looking into nukes, so we should start research in the US. Various teams in different states were established, under the Manhattan Project umbrella. Hitler never came close to possessing nukes, but we did, evident in Japan.
I personally think that the technology would still be around today, even without WWII, but that’s just my speculation.
247 – I agree with your first point. Totally.
243- You are very ingnorant:
3)0 In all honesty, I think you’re wrong on this point. Religion is definitely at the root of all of those. The Spanish Inquisition: Christians Kill and Convert Jews! Conquistadors: Christians Kill, Enslave, and Convert Native Americans! The Crusades: Christians Kill Jews and Muslims! World War II: Christians Kill and Enslave Jews! 9/11: Muslims Kill Everyone, (mainly Christians)! Yeah, I’d say all of those have religion at the core!
Lets look at these one at a time:
The Spanish Inquisition: Christians Kill and Convert Jews!
Um, What? There was Nothing about Jews in TSI. it was CATHOLIC Killing PROTESTANTS
Conquistadors: Christians Kill, Enslave, and Convert Native
Americans!
Not all Conquistadors were Christians.
The Crusades: Christians Kill Jews and Muslims!
I’ll give you that one.
World War II: Christians Kill and Enslave Jews!
Hitler Was Not a Christian!
250 – Wasn’t Hitler Christian? That was my impression.
200- I don’t mind at all. I’m Hindu. Atleast, my mom and dad and sisters are Hindu. So I guess I’m prolly Hindu too. Except I don’t really freak out to much about eating with my left hand or eating beef (Beef just doesn’t taste good to me, thats all) or all that stuff. But I don’t do/do what my mom tells me to not do/do. Yeah, so I’m Hindu/nothing/loverofcarrots/Jedi/VERYCONFUSED
And my impression of Hitler:
All I judge him by is that he was a REALLY BAD PERSON. And that he was taken out of The Beatles Sgt.Pepper cd photo because of it ;), seriously google it, though maybe not because of that reason… Edgar Allen Poe is on it too. **Random
anyway so, yeah.
251- Hitler was a self proclaimed atheist who believed in the devil and christian mythology, and supported the german masses in their practised protestant christianity. He hated catholics, and sent them to death camps. *takes deep breath*
*My interesting thought of the day*
No offense to anyone who thinks otherwise, but.
If there is a God or any of the variations thereof, he’s not doing the best job of helping everyone on the right path. War, torture, global warming… you get the point.
254- well, he’s an angry and vengeful god….
249- thanks.
250- what religion was hitler?
254- I kinda agree.
In my opinion I don’t see why God would create a near infinite universe and only bother to create one life form that aknowledges and worships him. Only my opinion.
250–Spanish Inquisition was against everyone other than Catholics, although they did particularly dislike Protestants. Jews were in there too, though. In 1492 (or thereabouts) it was decreed that all Jews who didn’t convert would have to leave or die (that’s called the Diaspora, I believe).
254–Well He did give us free will. I don’t think that God interferes with that at all; so if we create war, torture, and global warming, that’s our fault. And I don’t think He changes the mistakes we’ve made, either, unless we ask. And even then, He usually doesn’t.
250-The Spanish Inquisition: Catholics Kill Jews and Protestants!
(See 257!)
Conquistadors: Christians Kill, Enslave, and Convert Native
Americans! (Yeah, almost all of the Conquistadors were Christians!)
The Crusades: Christians Kill Jews and Muslims! (We established this!)
World War II: All People Kill More People! (You’re right here!)
9/11: Muslims Kill Everyone, (mainly Christians)!
You have a point, but so do I.
256-I also agree with that.
253 – Ah. Okay.
Percent of Canadians who say that religion is very important to them: 28
Percent of Americans who say that religion is very important to them: 60
I find that interesting.
Okay, Bookworm, let’s say religion does cause every problem in the world. How do you suggest we do away with it?
262-That’s where my plan falls apart! We can’t actively ban it, all one could do would be pass laws restricting: (A Prejudice, (B Insults, and (C Fighting. Any other ideas?
it causes a lot of problems in the world, though not all. So does possession, and countries, all that stuff. To do away with it is to not have it.
261- Americans are more likely to say religion means a lot, but go to church little. In Europe, it’s the opposite.
263- What about places like Africa and the middle east? There’s no laws in some of those countries. Religious zealots in those parts would just say: “Screw the laws! Our god is better than your god! Kill! Massacre! Genocide!”
Laws might work in nice polite countries like America, but not in those crazy messed up countries. (Ugh, that sounded offensive. Sorry. It’s the governments that are often messed up, not the people).
246- Yes, getting along would be a very very very very good thing. But having us all believe in the same type of divine power? I don’t believe in the same type of divineness from day to day, and I am only one person! How could you possibly expect six-plus billion people to?
250- As mentioned elsewhere, there was plenty of Christians killing Jews in the Spanish Inquisition. And muslims, and protestantsand pretty much all non-Catholics. Yet again though, this does not mean that Catholicism is bad. It means that fanaticism is bad. (257- The decree of 1492 is called the Spanish Expulsion– creative name, I know.)
254- And since when is it God’s job to clean up all our messes? I am pretty sure I believe in some sort of divine power (the form it takes varies as I explore myself and my surroundings) but a divine power that picks up after me and leads me by the hand at all times is not something I believe in.
Re: the banning of religion: Wait! I have it! The real cause of all these problems is people! Let’s outlaw homo sapiens!
I don’t think that religion is the problem. There are plenty of people in this world that rely on their religion to bring peace to their lives, and lots of churches contribute to the communities they’re in.
I think the real problem is when people get too caught up in trying to “save” everybody else, by converting them to their religion. Everybody should be entitled to their own beliefs, and things start going wrong when you try to force your lifestyle (and religion) on others.
I would just like to mention that I am Catholic. That is all.
261- Quite.
262-We can’t until we can prove that no God or any other deity exists, we can’t convince people.
268-How do we stop all this “saving”, then?
268 – Yes! Yes! I agree!
267–Exactly! We’re not toddlers. God isn’t going to be checking on us to see if we’re screwing up or not. And yes, it’s not religion’s fault, it’s the humans that practice it who have faults like greed and corruption, etc.
268–Yeah, most religions call for witnessing. I personally think that you shouldn’t beat people over the head with a Bible. If you try too hard to convince people of anything, they’ll be offended.
Don’t Argue until Satuday when I come Back!
271 – By teaching people religious tolerance. I mean, it’s one thing to teach people about your religion so they can make a personal desicion, but if you beat them over the head with a Bible, like Nthanda said, then that’s completely different.
275- I think people should learn about other religions, not just to make personal decisions but to understand the decisions of others. Teaching and proselyting are completely differnet things.
275–well said.
276 – Well, yeah. That’s what I meant.
To all the people who disagree with me:
Some people actually do think it’s God’s job to fix our messes, although in my opinion, he probably has better things to do.
i am pretty much lutheran but not exactly sure. would someone please explain the church of theflying spaghetti monster?
(280) See https://musefanpage.com/blog/?p=741#comment-7 .
273~ Not all churches require its members to go around and convert people.
276~ I agree. If any of my friends ask me why I’m a Christian Scientist, or why I think that God exists, I’ll tell them. I’ll tell them in the clearest way that I can, and hope that they understand and possibly agree. I’m not going to MAKE them believe what I do, that’s impossible and I know that.
(GAPAs, you can add me to the list on the top of the page, if you like.)
282 – Exactly. I mean, I’m an athiest, but I respect other people’s decisions. I explain to them why I believe what I believe, and leave it at that.
Of course, my brother isn’t quite so good. There’s a running joke in our grade from when my brother tried to convince a kid 2 years older then him (my age) about evolution. The other kid then started spreading the rumor that my brother thought we evolved from apples, water, and monkeys.
Yeah.
I had a classmate who would go around attempting to convert people.
284 – A girl at my school goes around asking what religion people are. Even that bothers me.
285 – I know. It’s irritating.
284/5~ That is obnoxious. It’s an intimidation tactic, and it’s rude.
It’s natural from their point of view, however. Suppose all of your classmates were blind and were staggering toward the edge of a cliff that only you could see. I’m sure you’d say or do whatever you could to save them — and you wouldn’t care if they considered you obnoxious. That’s exactly the situation that your proselytizing classmates think that you, and they, are in.
288 – Yeah, I know, but…but…aargh…stop making sense, darn it.
Sorry, Meow. You may not agree that they’re right, but I think it helps to understand why they’re so insistent.
288-Oooh! Good point! But… But… DANG! There’s no argument against that!
288 – Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr… stop being right!
There’s no argument for that!
Well, somebody has got to be right — either the cliff is there, or it isn’t — but that doesn’t mean that you’ll ever agree. Maybe there are arguments that nobody can win, and behavior that arguments can’t change.
293 – *ponders* O, Wise GAPA. *kneels*
288~ I agree.
However, some of the Fundamentalist Christians are very rude when telling you that you should see things EXACTLY as they do. I don’t mind someone trying to tell me why they think I should think their way if they are truly concerned. The people who walk up to me (and I tend to think of myself as not appearing in grave danger) and point blank ask “Have you found God?” I usually say that yes, I believe in God, I attend church regularly, I have experienced God’s power first hand, etc. This isn’t enough, I HAVE to go to their church. I HAVE to agree with ever word they say about God.
If someone is obviously having a hard time and the person knows them I don’t find any objection to telling them about your beliefs. If they refuse to see it, try another tack, if that doesn’t work, DON”T FORCE IT. If they are truly ready for the understanding, they will have it. Force feeding religion is a futile task. None of us can control another person’s thoughts, we can influence them, but we cannot absolutely change their minds.
I still think that the best way to teach others about your faith is to live it, and others will see that is a system that works, and they will be more willing to try it out for themselves.
Perhaps there are multiple cliffs, and only a few people can see each one. While your friend is trying to keep you from falling, your friend is just hanging on to the edge her/his self.
296 – Ah! A stunning new development…
Perhaps they aren’t cliffs at all. Maybe you’re ordering blind at a restauraunt.
298–What?
We’re getting very philosphical here. For some reason I am reminded of HG2G. I’m not sure why.
299- Imagine that finding the proper theology is like ordering blind at a restaurant. Someone else has ordered a particular dish, liked it a lot, and thinks you will like it too. Here’s the catch: you might like it, or you mihgt have an allergic reaction and be dreadfully ill. So you need to decide wheather to trust the guy or just start trying random other dishes until you find something you like.
You’re right… this is vagualy HG2G
I’m a very proud Catholic Christian. Why do people not like us…?
300–Gotzit. Good thinking.
301–they don’t?
I just realized–I should be under Presbyterian + Hannukah and Passover (my dad’s Jewish). Is this an available category?
(302) ‘Tis now.
301 – I don’t mind Catholic Christians at all. It just bothers me when people repeatedly try to convert others.
Thanks Rebecca!
Wouldn’t it be wonderful if people of different religions could learn to coexist peacefully! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
(306) They do, in some places — the United States, for example. So the question is, what are we doing right?
307 – There’s still bias and such among others, but, yes, there isn’t a civil war among, say, the Catholics and the Jews in America.
I think the most bias would be directed at Muslims, from what I’ve heard at school.
But that’s just mean.
I think we just have different places of worship, don’t really care at times what religion they are, and just either don’t notice or don’t comment on it!
But what about the countries that are, say, 90% Catholic? Like the Philippines or, say, France. There is a chance for bias against atheists or non-Catholics, right?
And DON’T get me started on the Vatican. I mean, 100% Catholic? Sheesh.
(308) Many Americans may have anti-Muslim feelings, but by and large they behave themselves. In many countries, something like what happened in New York on September 11, 2001, would have touched off widespread anti-Muslim rioting all over the country. That didn’t happen here.
There’s still religious bias in America, though the most widespread type is directed against nonreligious people. (I think it would be hard for an avowed atheist to win an election to high public office or an appointment to the Supreme Court.) But Logogeo wasn’t talking about that; he was talking about coexisting peacefully — which, by and large, we do.
309 – Oh, I see. And that’s true. You make a good point; there would be a lot of bias against atheists; I told my classmate I didn’t believe in God and he started yelling at me. “What?! Why?!?!?! How could you?!?!”
Then again, he tells everyone that “he’s going to Heaven”, blah blah blah. It’s quite annoying. And rude. And insensitive.
307–I think our ability to (somewhat) coexist peacefully comes from 1) seperation of church and state (that’s a biggie) and 2) the fact that there’s such a crazy mix of religions that it’s almost normal for someone to be different from you. I mean, look at the list at the top of the page, I’ve never even heard of some of these religions.
311 – Particularly IPU and FSM.
But the fact that we can “worship” the Invisible Pink Unicorn (may her hooves never be shod) or the Flying Spaghetti Monster says a lot about America. In lots of other countries we would be accused of blasphemy.
310-Well, does anyone really know what happens after we die? I don’t, and I don’t think it’s something we should concern ourselves with. (I’m an atheist, sort of.)
Would you PLEASE put me on there GAPAs, under Wiccan and FSM.
-310 oh I’m undoubtedly going to hell for something or other. Well, I’ll look up at you while sharing Emerson’s pineapples.
(Wall of Shame, Mugglenet.)
and why would anybody ever want to say they were going to “Heaven?” Hey, it’s dead boring up there. Though I might chance a short visit to see what the temperature is.
314 – That’s what some of my friends say. They think that heaven would be boring. (They’re athiests, in case anybody was wondering)
314/315–how in the world does anyone know it’s boring? After all, it is heaven, you’re supposed to be happy.
316 – …Yes, but what do you do up there?
318–Bask in God’s love? Play X-games in zero-gravity? Eat frozen bon-bons and play ping-pong? I dunno. But everyone’s trying to get there, it must be something worthwhile…
318 – *shrugs* I guess. But…
Describing my version of Heaven would take up half this page again.
320 – Post it anyways.
313- you sounded more like a secular humanist than athiest. An athiest activly disbilieves in God. A secular humanist says that since God’s existance or nonexistance can’t be proven the divine question is immaterial.
322-And an Agnostic says that there is a divine force, but there’s no way to prove it, worship it, or find out what it is. An Agnostic is not an indecisive Atheist!
Heven is a More pisten Verson of earth.
323 – Really? That’s what POSOC said it was… (133)
323- And what is someone who hasn’t decided yet called?
324- Pisten?
This is what Wikipedia says: Agnosticism is the philosophical view that the truth value of certain claims — particularly metaphysical claims regarding theology, afterlife or the existence of God, gods, deities, or even ultimate reality — is unknown or, depending on the form of agnosticism, inherently unknowable.
-324 you mean Earth is a more pristine version of “Heaven”.
ZVX
323- Drat. What does that make me? I don’t know if there’s a divine force. I just don’t think about it.
328- No, I don’t think that’s what he meant.
I think that Heaven and Hell aren’t really places where you go after death. You find them both on Earth.
And I don’t know what happens when you die.
322-Thanks for clarifying. I just don’t see the point. (Technically, I’m a secular Jew. Now I have no idea what I am.)
328- no, I mean that Heaven is a more pristine version of Earth.
This is getting confusing. My opinion is simply that since there is no way to know what heaven is or is not like, discussing it is, effectively, pointless.
333–True, but it’s fun to speculate.
If you could have heaven on Earth–I mean, like paradise in earthly terms–what would it contain?
Ooh… *is confused* Well, mine would have… um… I’ll have to get back to you on that.
That’s a tough question.
Um… World peace? I could talk to animals? *thinks*
My friends, a beach, a mountain, and a lake would all be within walking distance.
Computers wouldn’t polute and my notebook would never run out of pages.
Chocolate would be a healthy food and I wouldn’t fall ill.
No military struggles.
Those are the biggies, there are lots of smaller details that I would like but aren’t as important.
Libraries don’t charge Fines!
307- Yes, the question is what are we doing right and we have to do more of the answer! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
338- Yes they do, I know this because I just checked my account info and have somehow run up a $5.40 fine! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
340-I meant in my Ideal “Heaven on Earth”, Libraries wouldn’t charge Fines!!!!!!!!!!!
yeah…maybe that’s what we should be working on instead of blowing up Iraq. I get charged fines regularly.
Same here…
But then, people would keep books for forever, and no one else would get to read them.
I’ve been looking through religion lately and I suppose I could be put into the catagory of either Ignosticism or Agnostic Theism. I do believe that there must be a definiton of God before you can decide if He (or she or it or whatever) exists, but I also believe that even though I don’t know what… kind (for lack of better word) of God there is, he (or she or it or whatever) is “out there”.
so hows the flaming going?! i just posted to change my religion to christian but non-demoninational. i’m am not baptist anymore. this brings back old times of arguing with frigidSymphony. love that guy. best debater i have ever met. is he still with us?
He’s not on the blog.
He’s probably still Alive.
346-Actually there hasn’t been any significant flaming for a while. Dear old Fridgedy still comes on every once in a while to make a cynical comment on something, but we believe he’s still alvie and out there.
348- He’s still alive, but he doesn’t come on here. The Terenika RRR died due to a lack of Sigmund-awesomeness.
349- I think it died due to a lack of…something else. But, now that you mention it, maybe it did die because FS left. Huh.
350- FS leaving was one of the major factors, although there were others.
351- like the story was a mess.
352- Yes, that was a big problem too.
Ugh. My friend C wasn’t at his soccer game today, and that wasn’t entirely unexpected, seeing that his family is Mormon. (I may be wrong on that, but I think that’s what they are.) But what really bothered me is what one of the parents of a boy on my brother’s team, who also have a son on C’s team, said to my dad: “Yeah, I know he’s never here on Sundays, but you’d think that by U-15 you would make a decision between the two.”
That bothers me, mostly because it’s not fair to make someone choose between their religion and a sport. Particularly when they are upfront about it and still make a commitment to play for the team on other days.
I hardly think someone should be exluded from any activity just because they practice a religion! That’s just segregating!
(New Thread?)
355-I agree on both points. This thread is getting long…